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SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ken suspended from LAB for a year over Hitler comments – not expelled

Ken Livingstone escapes expulsion from Labour over his Hitler remarks. Party disciplinary panel suspends his membership for one year.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    First?
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    edited April 2017
    Oh good. A Hitler thread.

    And second, like Germany.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited April 2017
    What a curious decision - and he's clearly not contrite about anything so what's the point in punishing him so little?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    Stephen Bush's comment above nails it!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Ken will spend the next year explaining why the Ku Klux Klan were supporters of civil rights for African-Americans during the 20th century
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    don will be fuming at the tories for this....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    Hang on, NOT suspended from the party for a year, suspended from standing for elected office for a year.

    So Labour Party members are free to say what Ken said, really?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/04/ken-livingstone-escapes-expulsion-labour-party-claims-zionists/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    My memory is shaky, does anyone recall what exactly prompted Ken's diversions into historical analysis re 'the jews' in the first place? There was a period for awhile when it seemed you couldn't switch on a channel without Ken or Abbott babbling on about something or other, but what sparked his, shall we say, less conventional utterances?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    There's not enough popcorn in the world
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/849342861770403841
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    I get his frustration with people endlessly talking about his leadership, but honestly it makes him seem like a whiny little brat when he loses his cool like that.

    If people cannot shut up about how awful your leadership is, mate, then unless you genuinely think this is a totalitarian state which controls all media, then even if they are missing some of the good your people are doing, you leadership is still awful since you cannot convince them to talk about anything else.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,340
    kle4 said:

    My memory is shaky, does anyone recall what exactly prompted Ken's diversions into historical analysis re 'the jews' in the first place? There was a period for awhile when it seemed you couldn't switch on a channel without Ken or Abbott babbling on about something or other, but what sparked his, shall we say, less conventional utterances?

    The Naz Shah twitterstorm.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, NOT suspended from the party for a year, suspended from standing for elected office for a year.

    So Labour Party members are free to say what Ken said, really?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/04/ken-livingstone-escapes-expulsion-labour-party-claims-zionists/

    Yep - welcome to Neu Labour
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    Blaming the MSN for not doing Labour's job.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Wes Streeting should join the Lib Dems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    There's not enough popcorn in the world
    Indeed, plus there's something Spursy about Corbyn and Labour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    williamglenn said:

    Wes Streeting should join the Lib Dems.

    He can join Anna Soubry.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Floater said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, NOT suspended from the party for a year, suspended from standing for elected office for a year.

    So Labour Party members are free to say what Ken said, really?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/04/ken-livingstone-escapes-expulsion-labour-party-claims-zionists/

    Yep - welcome to Neu Labour
    Is that Neu Arbeit (Max Fry division)?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/849342861770403841

    It is the correct strategy for Wes to run virtually as a centre-left independent for Ilford North - but I think Corbyn's toxicity will see a Con regain. The swing will be lower than the national average is all.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Rob - it isn't, that's my point. Public holidays are honoured at employers' discretion. Many retail workers have to work them despite the fact that retail is a non-essential service. Witness the disgrace last year when some retail workers only got one day off for Christmas because Christmas Day fell on a Sunday. Rather than frothing about godless chocolate sweets, the government should concentrate on closing that loophole. But it won't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    ThomasNashe said:

    kle4 said:

    My memory is shaky, does anyone recall what exactly prompted Ken's diversions into historical analysis re 'the jews' in the first place? There was a period for awhile when it seemed you couldn't switch on a channel without Ken or Abbott babbling on about something or other, but what sparked his, shall we say, less conventional utterances?

    The Naz Shah twitterstorm.
    Oh yes, that's right - she apologised for being thoughtless and wrong, and he said 'what? Nonsense, you were totally right'.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Shami says Ken ban shows Labour has "ability to look at itself fairly and carefully in the mirror in more difficult times, however painful"

    @MrHarryCole: Shami goes on: "I hope people might now revisit my report and remind themselves of better ways to argue about difficult issues.." For real

    WTF?
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/849342861770403841

    Chill. Baroness Chakrabarti will sort it. Again. Probably.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,819
    I was wondering if the significant Jewish population of Gateshead could help make it a fight at the next election but looking at the results, even if every Jewish person voted against Labour it wouldn't even make a dent.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Shami says Ken ban shows Labour has "ability to look at itself fairly and carefully in the mirror in more difficult times, however painful"

    @MrHarryCole: Shami goes on: "I hope people might now revisit my report and remind themselves of better ways to argue about difficult issues.." For real

    WTF?

    Seriously - how low can Labour sink?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    williamglenn said:

    Wes Streeting should join the Lib Dems.

    He'd be welcome I think, he might even have a superior chance of holding ILFORD NORTH
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    bobajobPB said:

    Rob - it isn't, that's my point. Public holidays are honoured at employers' discretion. Many retail workers have to work them despite the fact that retail is a non-essential service. Witness the disgrace last year when some retail workers only got one day off for Christmas because Christmas Day fell on a Sunday. Rather than frothing about godless chocolate sweets, the government should concentrate on closing that loophole. But it won't.

    I missed this debate - I thought the situation was we are guaranteed x days off per year, and most employers choose to give x - the number of bank holidays since most people want to be off then anyway, but as long as they give you x, they could make you work on bank holidays.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    I've only just tuned into the debate tonight - Poutou not even wearing a shirt, may be good for his image/ allow him to stand out slightly. I wonder if this debate poses a big risk to Melenchon and Le Pen. The petit candidates are basically at the two extremes and even small increases at their expense is not good for the two 'established' outsiders. Macron may be the big winner because as I understand it he is the only one occupying his niche.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    bobajobPB said:

    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?

    I think not.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,340
    kle4 said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    kle4 said:

    My memory is shaky, does anyone recall what exactly prompted Ken's diversions into historical analysis re 'the jews' in the first place? There was a period for awhile when it seemed you couldn't switch on a channel without Ken or Abbott babbling on about something or other, but what sparked his, shall we say, less conventional utterances?

    The Naz Shah twitterstorm.
    Oh yes, that's right - she apologised for being thoughtless and wrong, and he said 'what? Nonsense, you were totally right'.
    Yes, that'd be the 140 character version.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    There's not enough popcorn in the world
    Indeed, plus there's something Spursy about Corbyn and Labour.
    that's not being fair to Spurs
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    One certainly hopes the electoral calculus of relatively few jewish voters was not a factor in any decision making here, given one need not be jewish to be offended by Ken Livingstone.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/849346438433841152
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    bobajobPB said:

    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?

    Godwin is just that Nazis will be mentioned.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Dupont-Aignan Just referred to Macron as Mr Hollande.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Shami says Ken ban shows Labour has "ability to look at itself fairly and carefully in the mirror in more difficult times, however painful"

    @MrHarryCole: Shami goes on: "I hope people might now revisit my report and remind themselves of better ways to argue about difficult issues.." For real

    WTF?

    For someone who only joined the party a year or so ago (a decision I still don't understand, given her reasoning about being within it to fight any issues within, as though fighting those issues within and outside the party would not be good too) she is amazingly, fanatically on message.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    Dupont-Aignan Just referred to Macron as Mr Hollande.

    LOL. Surely intentional, too.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    One certainly hopes the electoral calculus of relatively few jewish voters was not a factor in any decision making here, given one need not be jewish to be offended by Ken Livingstone.

    Labour has another constituent base, a larger constituent base where a number hold similar or worse views than than arse wipe Livingstone
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,668
    Alistair said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?

    Godwin is just that Nazis will be mentioned.
    We have a winner!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    JAM - Les Jeunes avec Macron

    https://twitter.com/Pierre_Benjamin/status/849346552997052416
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Tulip Siddiq: “Absolutely ridiculous. Why has this man not been expelled?!”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Alistair said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?

    Godwin is just that Nazis will be mentioned.
    But if it is relevant its inevitability is less a manifestation of the Internet's awful grasp of analogy and reference than, well, relevance.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    I really, really do not understand this. Livingstone has made some authentically demented claims, like: "“He [Hitler] also passed a law that said the Zionist flag and the Swastika were the only flags that could be flown in Germany.

    “And then they started selling Mauser pistols to the underground Jewish army."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ken-livingstone-hitler-zionist-comments-nazi-court-hearing-video-a7657801.html

    But the headline claim that Hitler cooperated with Zionists in the early 1930s is, quite simply, true. Here's a debunking of it, but the debunking only amounts to saying that restating "Hitler cooperated with Zionists" as "Hitler was a Zionist" is bloody silly (which it is).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/adolf-hitler-zionism-zionist-nazis-haavara-agreement-ken-livingstone-labour-antisemitism-row-a7009981.html

    And actually this is important, because it demonstrates the fact that Hitler was willing to expel Jews in the 1930s to countries which would accept them. Denying the fact lets off the hook countries which could have accepted more of them, and didn't. Including this one.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Philosophical question.

    Is a Godwin possible on this thread?

    Godwin is just that Nazis will be mentioned.
    We have a winner!
    Chortle.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Another thought - there are I believe more frexiteers than EU supporters (Le Pen, Assilineau, Cheminade, Dupont, plus I think Poutou and Arthaud, with Melenchon a bit unclear) - could this debate render frexit more acceptable to the voters?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    David Cameron mentioned
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    williamglenn said:

    Wes Streeting should join the Lib Dems.

    He'd be welcome I think, he might even have a superior chance of holding ILFORD NORTH
    LOL, don't get too cocky :p
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,668
    Pulpstar said:

    David Cameron mentioned

    Any idea what the context was, or were those the only words you recognised? :p
  • glwglw Posts: 10,489
    Floater said:

    Tulip Siddiq: “Absolutely ridiculous. Why has this man not been expelled?!”

    Lets be blunt Labour are no longer truly against anti-Semitism, essentially they now see gradations and think Ken's barmy historical revisionism isn't that bad an offence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited April 2017
    So Mr Corbyn, will you be happy for the media to report on what Labour are doing here? Baroness Chakribarti sees it as something to be proud of, so some other people will, presumably you for one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,668
    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    Laying the groundwork of an independent Scotland with students of California? :p
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    David Cameron mentioned

    Any idea what the context was, or were those the only words you recognised? :p
    Assilineau said he was the one true frexiteer because he didn't want negotiations like Le Pen, and he compared her to Cameron
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I really, really do not understand this. Livingstone has made some authentically demented claims, like: "“He [Hitler] also passed a law that said the Zionist flag and the Swastika were the only flags that could be flown in Germany.

    “And then they started selling Mauser pistols to the underground Jewish army."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ken-livingstone-hitler-zionist-comments-nazi-court-hearing-video-a7657801.html

    But the headline claim that Hitler cooperated with Zionists in the early 1930s is, quite simply, true. Here's a debunking of it, but the debunking only amounts to saying that restating "Hitler cooperated with Zionists" as "Hitler was a Zionist" is bloody silly (which it is).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/adolf-hitler-zionism-zionist-nazis-haavara-agreement-ken-livingstone-labour-antisemitism-row-a7009981.html

    And actually this is important, because it demonstrates the fact that Hitler was willing to expel Jews in the 1930s to countries which would accept them. Denying the fact lets off the hook countries which could have accepted more of them, and didn't. Including this one.

    I'm not sure I agree with that last part. Are you suggesting that countries who didn't partake in another country's ethnic cleansing are in some way to blame for what followed? Hitler may have wanted Jews to relocate, but he wasn't going to let them take their wealth with them.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Unsurprisingly, Macron is attacking Le Pen. Not sure how effectively. He's saying she wants to exacerbate divisions in Europe and "nationalism - it's war".

    Mélenchon likely to stay in front of Hamon after this.

    Fillon looks as though he's already in office. Or a smarmy git, depending on your POV.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    Laying the groundwork of an independent Scotland with students of California? :p
    Stanford today, Washington tomorrow. ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    If Ken is basically innocent, and he says he is so his suspension clearly means nothing, then shouldn't those 'MPs who lied' as he put it now be censured by the party for bringing it into disrepute?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,668
    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    Laying the groundwork of an independent Scotland with students of California? :p
    Stanford today, Washington tomorrow. ;)
    Hm, maybe not the timeframe Sturgeon wanted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    California, especially around San Francisco as Stanford is was strongly for Hillary and thus would also have been strongly for Remain, just as it is the type of area to support the new California secessionist movement after Trump's win so it will also be sympathetic to a Scottish nationalist seeking to break away from the Leave voting UK
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    tlg86 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I really, really do not understand this. Livingstone has made some authentically demented claims, like: "“He [Hitler] also passed a law that said the Zionist flag and the Swastika were the only flags that could be flown in Germany.

    “And then they started selling Mauser pistols to the underground Jewish army."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ken-livingstone-hitler-zionist-comments-nazi-court-hearing-video-a7657801.html

    But the headline claim that Hitler cooperated with Zionists in the early 1930s is, quite simply, true. Here's a debunking of it, but the debunking only amounts to saying that restating "Hitler cooperated with Zionists" as "Hitler was a Zionist" is bloody silly (which it is).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/adolf-hitler-zionism-zionist-nazis-haavara-agreement-ken-livingstone-labour-antisemitism-row-a7009981.html

    And actually this is important, because it demonstrates the fact that Hitler was willing to expel Jews in the 1930s to countries which would accept them. Denying the fact lets off the hook countries which could have accepted more of them, and didn't. Including this one.

    I'm not sure I agree with that last part. Are you suggesting that countries who didn't partake in another country's ethnic cleansing are in some way to blame for what followed? Hitler may have wanted Jews to relocate, but he wasn't going to let them take their wealth with them.
    I think it is a distortion to portray accepting refugees from ethnic cleansing as "partaking in" ethnic cleansing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Hamon desperately uninspiring, unfortunately for him Melenchon is quite good - and fishing in an almost identical pool.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    What a bear garden this French debate is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    So did my uncle as he worked in a hotel, he just took the time off another day instead, that does not change the fact Christmas Eve and Boxing Day are public holidays
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer. He now has a gold-plated pension.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Hamon desperately uninspiring, unfortunately for him Melenchon is quite good - and fishing in an almost identical pool.

    Of course, a further Hamon collapse is in the Left's interests, since it boosts the outside chance of Melenchon getting into round two.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Restharrow said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer. He now has a gold-plated pension.
    If there's plenty of work to be done that's great, but otherwise I find it a thoroughly depressing time to be in an office.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    glw said:

    Floater said:

    Tulip Siddiq: “Absolutely ridiculous. Why has this man not been expelled?!”

    Lets be blunt Labour are no longer truly against anti-Semitism, essentially they now see gradations and think Ken's barmy historical revisionism isn't that bad an offence.
    Labour are the party for anti-Semites, painful as such a statement must be for decent Labour types such as SO.

    Those who think that Ken has uttered some inconvenient truth would do well to read Ian Kershaw, the noted historian and expert on Hitler to understand the reality of Hitler's and the Nazi regime's approach to Jews.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited April 2017
    Restharrow said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer.
    I do that every year, although I do try to get some work done, its just the 'things that pop up' stuff doesn't occur then. Good time to tidy up errant files and plan out some stuff for the rest of the year.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.

    I original read that as "I know office based workers who get naked"... and wondered where you were going.

  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    kle4 said:

    Restharrow said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer.
    I do that every year, although I do try to get some work done, its just the 'things that pop up' stuff doesn't occur then. Good time to tidy up errant files and plan out some stuff for the rest of the year.
    Fair enough. Some people can use the time productively. Others languish in a comfortable semi-darkness without meetings, phone calls or emails.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Restharrow said:

    kle4 said:

    Restharrow said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer.
    I do that every year, although I do try to get some work done, its just the 'things that pop up' stuff doesn't occur then. Good time to tidy up errant files and plan out some stuff for the rest of the year.
    Fair enough. Some people can use the time productively. Others languish in a comfortable semi-darkness without meetings, phone calls or emails.
    The effort to find things to do does not work every year, admittedly.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Now on to national security - the pitch in the French debate is likely to heighten.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."

    Which of our parties don't believe in equality and natural justice?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."

    ..... for anti-Semites and conspiracy fruitloops.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    California, especially around San Francisco as Stanford is was strongly for Hillary and thus would also have been strongly for Remain, just as it is the type of area to support the new California secessionist movement after Trump's win so it will also be sympathetic to a Scottish nationalist seeking to break away from the Leave voting UK
    It's about as left wing an audience as one could find in the USA.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    So did my uncle as he worked in a hotel, he just took the time off another day instead, that does not change the fact Christmas Eve and Boxing Day are public holidays
    Christmas Eve is not a public holiday. And the point is that it is quite within the gift of governments to say workers in non-essential services be afforded three consecutive days off at Christmas. Even hotels could manage that with thoughtful shifting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,668
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."

    Which of our parties don't believe in equality and natural justice?
    Hm, is eating babies against natural justice?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    What a bear garden this French debate is.

    I thought Macron might have taken a bit of a risk with his "nationalism is war" quote, but apparently Francois Mitterand said something similiar so he should be ok with it.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    There's not enough popcorn in the world
    Indeed, plus there's something Spursy about Corbyn and Labour.
    Low blow... but i realise the pb fantasy league must be causing some pain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."

    Which of our parties don't believe in equality and natural justice?
    Hm, is eating babies against natural justice?
    Not if you use ketchup.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    What a bear garden this French debate is.

    I thought Macron might have taken a bit of a risk with his "nationalism is war" quote, but apparently Francois Mitterand said something similiar so he should be ok with it.
    God, don't let the SNP hear that comment!
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    edited April 2017
    MarkHopkins said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.

    I original read that as "I know office based workers who get naked"... and wondered where you were going.

    "Even the president of the United States must sometimes have to stand naked."

    One of the anthems of my distant youth... suddenly feels like a nightmare.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    What a bear garden this French debate is.

    I thought Macron might have taken a bit of a risk with his "nationalism is war" quote, but apparently Francois Mitterand said something similiar so he should be ok with it.
    It's a straight quote from Mitterrand I think.

    https://vimeo.com/96063339
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Shami Chakrabarti: "Labour is the party of both equality and natural justice."

    ..... for anti-Semites and conspiracy fruitloops.
    The smaller Labour's remaining voter core becomes, the greater the proportion of it is Muslim - and not all of them are terribly enamoured with Jews. The total number of Jewish votes available is more modest, and most of them (if I remember the data from the post-GE analysis in 2015 correctly) have already swung behind the Tories.

    I wonder if the NEC got their calculators out and computed the potential net voter movements before settling on this verdict?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    Laying the groundwork of an independent Scotland with students of California? :p
    Stanford today, Washington tomorrow. ;)
    Laying the groundwork for Scotland's independence which should coincide with President Kennedy's landslide 2024 win.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Restharrow said:

    kle4 said:

    Restharrow said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.
    I know someone who worked for a local authority. He invariably "volunteered" to go in between xmas and new year, spent 3 days doing absolutely sfa, and preserved his holiday entitlement for the summer.
    I do that every year, although I do try to get some work done, its just the 'things that pop up' stuff doesn't occur then. Good time to tidy up errant files and plan out some stuff for the rest of the year.
    Fair enough. Some people can use the time productively. Others languish in a comfortable semi-darkness without meetings, phone calls or emails.
    My old company banned it because people were notionally coming in, then disappearing an hour later, and no-one was there in person or online to monitor it. I have never seen the point myself - with neither clients nor colleagues around there is very little you can do beyond tidying up the office.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Restharrow said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    tlg86 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    Funnily enough, I know office based workers who get narked off about being forced to use some of their leave between Christmas and New Year.

    I original read that as "I know office based workers who get naked"... and wondered where you were going.

    "Even the president of the United States must sometimes have to stand naked."

    One of the anthems of my distant youth... Suddenly feels like a nightmare.
    It's alright ma, it's life and life only...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    bobajobPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Kle4

    Correct. The upshot is that retail workers like my mother-in-law cannot see their grandchildren over Christmas because their mean employers make them work both Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.

    So did my uncle as he worked in a hotel, he just took the time off another day instead, that does not change the fact Christmas Eve and Boxing Day are public holidays
    Christmas Eve is not a public holiday. And the point is that it is quite within the gift of governments to say workers in non-essential services be afforded three consecutive days off at Christmas. Even hotels could manage that with thoughtful shifting.
    Christmas is the busiest time of year for the hospitality industry, many would go under if they had to give employees time off then instead of elsewhere in the year
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    California, especially around San Francisco as Stanford is was strongly for Hillary and thus would also have been strongly for Remain, just as it is the type of area to support the new California secessionist movement after Trump's win so it will also be sympathetic to a Scottish nationalist seeking to break away from the Leave voting UK
    It's about as left wing an audience as one could find in the USA.
    Tomorrow she goes to DC to find the second most leftwing
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Dupont-Aignan is going on about his proposed "ethical charter".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just imagine a six week general election campaign with this happening on a daily basis

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529

    There's not enough popcorn in the world
    Indeed, plus there's something Spursy about Corbyn and Labour.
    Low blow... but i realise the pb fantasy league must be causing some pain.
    Patience, I have my wild cards to play.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Pulpstar said:

    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    calum said:

    Nicola's up:

    https://livestream.com/accounts/1973198/events/7109075

    I couldn't imagine May, Johnson or Davis being able to pull off a similar Q&A session with students in California about the 'opportunities' of Brexit. She's doing a fantastic job laying the groundwork internationally to prepare the world for the prospect of an independent Scotland.
    Laying the groundwork of an independent Scotland with students of California? :p
    Stanford today, Washington tomorrow. ;)
    Laying the groundwork for Scotland's independence which should coincide with President Kennedy's landslide 2024 win.
    If California has not seceded from the Union first
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/sean_kemp/status/849338945246834688
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Labour MP: "Corbyn is adding insult to injury by putting Shami up to defend Livingstone. She has zero credibility and no self respect."
This discussion has been closed.

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