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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The signs are that UKIP will get a pasting in the May 4th elec

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2017
    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    And if you are a tiny number of ultra orthodox insert religion / athesists not celebrating you won't let your kids go regardless as you will still equate it to easter no matter what you call it...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I've found it interesting how little traction the Russian bombing seems to have generated in the news, and even among the comments here, from what I have seen, it's hardly been a topic of interest. It's obviously going to get less attention than an attack in the UK, or on one of our close neighbours, but it seems to have completely been ignored after the initial reporting. Is that just my impression or have others remarked on it as well? I would have expected more coverage of this?

    I suspect there is some sort of "media importance" rule of thumb that is used : divide 100 by hours of air travel to get to site of said atrocity and multiply by 4 if the country involved speaks English and again by 2 if USA.

    So Russian bomb scores much lower than Brussels and very much lower than Boston marathon.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    JPJ2 said:

    David Herdson suggested there might have been no polling on the forthcoming local elections in Scotland.

    In fact Wings over Scotland commissioned such a Panelbase poll and published the results on his website on 14 February this year.

    His summary of the percentage support for each party from "likely voters" was

    SNP 47
    Con 26
    Lab 14
    LD 5
    Green 4
    UKIP 3
    Other 1

    Only the STV system will save the British Labour Party in Scotland, who were only 1% behind the SNP in 2012, from utter devastation. This is partly due to Tory and Labour supporters giving later preference votes to their unionist friends. It is even possible that Tory/Labour administrations may well emerge after May 2017.

    I also anticipate significant gains for the Conservatives which will be trumpeted as a vote against an independence referendum. Even with the compliant unionist media pushing this line, it will not be convincing, as the Tories will be substantially outpolled by the SNP.

    AND in the background is the recent opinion poll indicating that in Scotland 61 per cent believed Holyrood should decide if there should be a new independence referendum compared with 39 per cent who thought it should be Westminster.

    Badly advised by Ruth Davidson, May (who suggested the local elections should be used by voters to indicate opposition to another referendum) finds herself on the wrong side of the "who decides" argument, and the longer the delay, the more the demographics favour a Yes vote next time.

    My guess is that you can take 4% off the SNP in that poll and add them to Labour. Otherwise it looks and feels about right. Traditionally it was the toxic Tories who got badly hurt by STV but this time the pain may well be shared around.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    calum said:

    TGOHF said:

    Any psephologists prepared a gains/losses prediction for Scotland in May ?

    Curtis still to predict !
    But the figures above include Scotland - did Hayward not give an SNP figure ???
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

    Cadbury was a Quaker IIRC (along with all the other sweet makers). It is my understanding that lots of Quakers don't celebrate Easter.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849180132585689088

    @faisalislam: ...means it will be concluded under EU27 unanimity not A50 QMV. At end of A50 she says "everyone will know what future arrangement will be"

    @faisalislam: ... PM tells me that this is "sensible" and "pragmatic"...

    @faisalislam: ... so that's a veto not just for Spain but for everyone including Wallonia too

    That's pretty obvious though, isn't it? We deal with the EU as a single body in order to sort out how we leave, then the EU finalises a trade deal with us just as it would with any other third party - some countries may even need referendums before signing up. What it also means, of course, is that there is absolutely no way on earth the deal can be done before we leave the EU. So that does either mean the cliff edge or a transitional deal.
    Who frankly cares that much about a deal, it is a minority of firms that deal with the eu. About 5% of our total trade and I dont see why I as a tax payer should subsidise your firm. If we pay anything to the eu for access to the single market after leaving then I think those that trade with the eu such as your company should be the ones paying it and not dipping in to my wallet.

    Does that mean we get to pay no Corporation tax on our EU-derived profits? Maybe our employees could pay less tax too? What do you reckon?

    Why should you pay no tax on eu derived profits. Firms that trade with China do the only difference is they are not subsidised by british tax payers. Why should your company be subsidised? You trade with europe good for you pay the true cost of doing business there dont expect me to pay it for you

    My than we do now and will create fewer jobs in the UK.

    Your company is subsidised.

    To be in the single market costs us 13.5 billion a year

    We do 220 billion or so exports to the eu

    therefore every pound of export business to the eu costs the taxpayer 6 pence that is a subsidy. If the cost of doing business in europe is 13 billion explain why tax payers should pay it instead of the firms benefitting from it. We dont get asked as taxpayers to fork out for firms doing business elsewhere why should we for you. If that makes your trade uneconomic then tough shit

    Ha, ha. We pay tax too and we subsidise plenty of people as a result, maybe even you - or do you pay the full cost of all the public services you use? Brexit does not make our company or its trade uneconomic, it just means we will spend less in the UK.

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2017

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

    Evidence it is made up given there is a direct quote from organisers stating the reason for renaming?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382


    Casino and royalblue


    You both have to go with whatever the conservative leadership decides.That is what conservative members are there to do no input on policy.It is the the great strength of the party it's pragmatism and how quickly it can change .
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited April 2017

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited April 2017
    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    So it was a deliberate decision to drop "Easter" then.....but we've been told it hasn't been......a Christian festival subservient to Mamon.....
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2017

    Walking away from the Brexit talks without a deal and creating an offshore, low tax, low wage, low regulation state in which public services are pared to the bone would not be something that anyone to the left of Cameron or Osborne would do. If you are saying May's threats on this are empty, then she is clearly not a very good negotiator.

    What you are missing is that she might not have any choice. To pare it down to its absolute basics, if the EU say '€50bn or there's no deal' (which they might well), then there's no deal, despite the fact that Mrs May is entirely sincere in wanting a good relationship with the EU27.

    In that case, she'd have no choice but to blame the foreigners - which would be fair enough in that scenario - and Phil Hammond would have no choice but to try to mitigate the economic damage by extremely business-friendly policies and cuts to public spending.

    This is the logic of the Brexit vote and the (possible) EU response to it. It's not a threat created by the PM, it's not what she wants, but it's what we might get if the EU27 are stupid enough to overplay their hand as drastically as they seem to be intending.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    IanB2 said:

    Faisal 'cup half empty' Islam interviews Mrs May - doesn't mention Easter Eggs:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849168210134011904

    The mockup of post-Brexit Britain in the background is perhaps a little over the top?
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I get a lot of spiritual comfort and theological inspiration from hiding an overpriced Mars bar in a hedge.

    Excellent stuff.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    JPJ2 said:

    David Herdson suggested there might have been no polling on the forthcoming local elections in Scotland.

    In fact Wings over Scotland commissioned such a Panelbase poll and published the results on his website on 14 February this year.

    His summary of the percentage support for each party from "likely voters" was

    SNP 47
    Con 26
    Lab 14
    LD 5
    Green 4
    UKIP 3
    Other 1

    Only the STV system will save the British Labour Party in Scotland, who were only 1% behind the SNP in 2012, from utter devastation. This is partly due to Tory and Labour supporters giving later preference votes to their unionist friends. It is even possible that Tory/Labour administrations may well emerge after May 2017.

    I also anticipate significant gains for the Conservatives which will be trumpeted as a vote against an independence referendum. Even with the compliant unionist media pushing this line, it will not be convincing, as the Tories will be substantially outpolled by the SNP.

    AND in the background is the recent opinion poll indicating that in Scotland 61 per cent believed Holyrood should decide if there should be a new independence referendum compared with 39 per cent who thought it should be Westminster.

    Badly advised by Ruth Davidson, May (who suggested the local elections should be used by voters to indicate opposition to another referendum) finds herself on the wrong side of the "who decides" argument, and the longer the delay, the more the demographics favour a Yes vote next time.

    My guess is that you can take 4% off the SNP in that poll and add them to Labour. Otherwise it looks and feels about right. Traditionally it was the toxic Tories who got badly hurt by STV but this time the pain may well be shared around.
    There was also a Ipsos Mori /STV poll more recently

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Scotland/scotland-pom-mar-2017-charts.pdf

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    edited April 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Every other religious festival uses its proper name, so should Easter
    Theresa May is about standing up for national identity and traditional values, and she will be laughed at and mocked by the commentariat for it.

    So be it. It's about bloody time someone did.

    Good for her.
    I like Easter egg hunts too, but by Christ that is overplaying her heroism a bit isn't it? That's snowflake victim mentality.
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    PaganPagan Posts: 259

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    <

    That's pretty obvious though, isn't it? We deal with the EU as a single body in order to sort out how we leave, then the EU finalises a trade deal with us just as it would with any other third party - some countries may even need referendums before signing up. What it also means, of course, is that there is absolutely no way on earth the deal can be done before we leave the EU. So that does either mean the cliff edge or a transitional deal.

    Who frankly cares that much about a deal, it is a minority of firms that deal with the eu. About 5% of our total trade and I dont see why I as a tax payer should subsidise your firm. If we pay anything to the eu for access to the single market after leaving then I think those that trade with the eu such as your company should be the ones paying it and not dipping in to my wallet.

    Does that mean we get to pay no Corporation tax on our EU-derived profits? Maybe our employees could pay less tax too? What do you reckon?

    My than we do now and will create fewer jobs in the UK.

    Your company is subsidised.

    To be in the single market costs us 13.5 billion a year

    We do 220 billion or so exports to the eu

    therefore every pound of export business to the eu costs the taxpayer 6 pence that is a subsidy. If the cost of doing business in europe is 13 billion explain why tax payers should pay it instead of the firms benefitting from it. We dont get asked as taxpayers to fork out for firms doing business elsewhere why should we for you. If that makes your trade uneconomic then tough shit

    Ha, ha. We pay tax too and we subsidise plenty of people as a result, maybe even you - or do you pay the full cost of all the public services you use? Brexit does not make our company or its trade uneconomic, it just means we will spend less in the UK.

    Still a subsidy. Millions of people work for companies that dont trade with the eu. We all have to pay however so that the minority of firms that do get single market access. The taxpayers pay on average 300£ a year for your privelege, You remainers keep on about economic arguments all I am saying is that going forward from now is that those firms that benefit should pay the cost not the rest of us. Why do you find that a problem and yes by the way I am a net contributor to the treasury as I earn enough
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    So it was a deliberate decision to drop "Easter" then.....but we've been told it hasn't been......a Christian festival subservient to Mamon.....
    People rush to judge, blinkered by what they want to see... Gina Miller blacking up being the standard bearer

    I'm sorry they read what they want to see rather than what is written
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited April 2017
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    TGOHF said:

    I'm sure Tessy will be consistent in her advocacy for Christian symbols and free expression all through today.

    https://twitter.com/omid9/status/849182380892008448

    Will PM may be covering her hair when she gets to Saudi ?
    Is that required for foreign leaders in Saudi Arabia? It's the law in Iran I think.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Mr. Ace, I wonder if Corbyn's in favour of this Easter uprising?

    Whatever else this non story has achieved, there's been some quality comments coming form it.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    You can't deny that they changed the name of it though. It's just an effort to remove the religious connotations (as they themselves said in the link isam provided). Rather than doing it all in one go, they've opted for a more gradual approach.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    Walking away from the Brexit talks without a deal and creating an offshore, low tax, low wage, low regulation state in which public services are pared to the bone would not be something that anyone to the left of Cameron or Osborne would do. If you are saying May's threats on this are empty, then she is clearly not a very good negotiator.

    What you are missing is that she might not have any choice. To pare it down to its absolute basics, if the EU say '€50bn or there's no deal' (which they might well), then there's no deal, despite the fact that Mrs May is entirely sincere in wanting a good relationship with the EU27.

    In that case, she'd have no choice but to blame the foreigners - which would be fair enough in that scenario - and Phil Hammond would have no choice but to try to mitigate the economic damage by extremely business-friendly policies and cuts to public spending.

    This is the logic of the Brexit vote and the (possible) EU response to it. It's not a threat created by the PM, it's not what she wants, but it's what we might get if the EU27 are stupid enough to overplay their hand as drastically as they seem to be intending.

    Walking away is always a choice. Obviously, the politics may demand that the Tories walk away, but shouldn't they be putting the good of the country first even if it costs them votes?


  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
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    Alistair said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

    Cadbury was a Quaker IIRC (along with all the other sweet makers). It is my understanding that lots of Quakers don't celebrate Easter.
    Ha, ha, yes. Quakers traditionally don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, preferring to regard no day as more special than any other. Cadbury himself would probably be much happier not to have his products explicitly associated with Easter!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Here you go - http://www.nhsstaffsurveys.com/Page/1056/Home/NHS-Staff-Survey-2016/
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Alistair said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

    Cadbury was a Quaker IIRC (along with all the other sweet makers). It is my understanding that lots of Quakers don't celebrate Easter.
    Ha, ha, yes. Quakers traditionally don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, preferring to regard no day as more special than any other. Cadbury himself would probably be much happier not to have his products explicitly associated with Easter!
    Either all days are holy or none?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited April 2017

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    The main logo no longer mentions Easter, Cadburys did this because they want to appeal to all religions and none. Now they can be flexible as to how much they mention it. Maybe in the Muslim ghettos of East London and Birmingham Easter will appear on their advertising, maybe it won't.
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    RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    You can't deny that they changed the name of it though. It's just an effort to remove the religious connotations (as they themselves said in the link isam provided). Rather than doing it all in one go, they've opted for a more gradual approach.
    One of the great lost Victorian masterpieces must be John Everett Millais' "Christ finds an Easter Egg in his parents' shrubbery at Nazareth". Joseph claps with childish glee while Mary looks a bit pensive.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Police didn't get the memo about "Brexit hate crime"

    "There was no reason for this attack and I believe because of the numbers involved people have just jumped on the back of it and it's turned into a violent brawl where someone has been viciously beaten and is very lucky to have not lost his life," she said.

    "There was only one motivation and that was to cause serious damage."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39479476
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Cultural cringe. England as point of reference. Ignore the SNP dog's dinner of health provision in Scotland.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    In the last few days we have had truly absurd stories about Gibraltar and now Easter Eggs. Perhaps we find real news too depressing.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    The classic "we might be offending other people despite nobody ever being offended". In the run up to Christmas the shops are rammed with folk of all religions buying gifts for Xmas.

    Nah, it's actually the classic "we have made this story up to provoke outrage" story.

    Cadbury was a Quaker IIRC (along with all the other sweet makers). It is my understanding that lots of Quakers don't celebrate Easter.
    Ha, ha, yes. Quakers traditionally don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, preferring to regard no day as more special than any other. Cadbury himself would probably be much happier not to have his products explicitly associated with Easter!
    Either all days are holy or none?
    I think they view all days as being holy and that particular days shouldn't be singled out as being more holy than others. Or something like that.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Show us the NHS Scotland stats........
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2017
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    JPJ2 said:

    David Herdson suggested there might have been no polling on the forthcoming local elections in Scotland.

    In fact Wings over Scotland commissioned such a Panelbase poll and published the results on his website on 14 February this year.

    His summary of the percentage support for each party from "likely voters" was

    SNP 47
    Con 26
    Lab 14
    LD 5
    Green 4
    UKIP 3
    Other 1

    Only the STV system will save the British Labour Party in Scotland, who were only 1% behind the SNP in 2012, from utter devastation. This is partly due to Tory and Labour supporters giving later preference votes to their unionist friends. It is even possible that Tory/Labour administrations may well emerge after May 2017.

    I also anticipate significant gains for the Conservatives which will be trumpeted as a vote against an independence referendum. Even with the compliant unionist media pushing this line, it will not be convincing, as the Tories will be substantially outpolled by the SNP.

    AND in the background is the recent opinion poll indicating that in Scotland 61 per cent believed Holyrood should decide if there should be a new independence referendum compared with 39 per cent who thought it should be Westminster.

    Badly advised by Ruth Davidson, May (who suggested the local elections should be used by voters to indicate opposition to another referendum) finds herself on the wrong side of the "who decides" argument, and the longer the delay, the more the demographics favour a Yes vote next time.

    My guess is that you can take 4% off the SNP in that poll and add them to Labour. Otherwise it looks and feels about right. Traditionally it was the toxic Tories who got badly hurt by STV but this time the pain may well be shared around.
    There was also a Ipsos Mori /STV poll more recently

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Scotland/scotland-pom-mar-2017-charts.pdf

    The implication of the council voting question is quite stark.

    'Local elections
    IN ELECTIONS FOR LOCAL COUNCILS IN SCOTLAND YOU PLACE THE CANDIDATES WHO ARE STANDING IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE. I AM GOING TO READ OUT A LIST OF PARTIES, ONCE I HAVE FINISHED COULD YOU TELL ME WHICH PARTY YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR FIRST VOTE TO IF THE ELECTION WAS BEING HELD TOMORROW.'

    18% for SCons, 1% in front of SLab.
    Let me make the not particularly brave prediction that again we'll be getting a lot of the Ruth Davidson Party, not so much of the Conservative Party.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176

    Walking away from the Brexit talks without a deal and creating an offshore, low tax, low wage, low regulation state in which public services are pared to the bone would not be something that anyone to the left of Cameron or Osborne would do. If you are saying May's threats on this are empty, then she is clearly not a very good negotiator.

    What you are missing is that she might not have any choice. To pare it down to its absolute basics, if the EU say '€50bn or there's no deal' (which they might well), then there's no deal, despite the fact that Mrs May is entirely sincere in wanting a good relationship with the EU27.

    In that case, she'd have no choice but to blame the foreigners - which would be fair enough in that scenario - and Phil Hammond would have no choice but to try to mitigate the economic damage by extremely business-friendly policies and cuts to public spending.

    This is the logic of the Brexit vote and the (possible) EU response to it. It's not a threat created by the PM, it's not what she wants, but it's what we might get if the EU27 are stupid enough to overplay their hand as drastically as they seem to be intending.

    Walking away is always a choice. Obviously, the politics may demand that the Tories walk away, but shouldn't they be putting the good of the country first even if it costs them votes?


    Walking away could well be "putting the good of the country first".
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    You can't deny that they changed the name of it though. It's just an effort to remove the religious connotations (as they themselves said in the link isam provided). Rather than doing it all in one go, they've opted for a more gradual approach.

    The National Trust quite clearly has not removed references to Easter and it was the National Trust that Theresa May was criticising this morning.

    “Easter’s very important. It’s important to me ... It’s a very important festival for the Christian faith for millions across the world. So I think what the National Trust is doing is frankly just ridiculous.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/04/theresa-may-condemns-national-trust-for-axing-easter-from-egg-hunt

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited April 2017
    @TUD - caps lock stuck on your post there? :o
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    F1: McLaren have ruled out making their own engine.

    And, for those who missed it yesterday, Giovinazzi is replacing Wehrlein again.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    The main logo no longer mentions Easter, Cadburys did this because they want to appeal to all religions and none. Now they can be flexible as to how much they mention it. Maybe in the Muslim ghettos of East London and Birmingham Easter will appear on their advertising, maybe it won't.

    So what? They have made a commercial decision. Theresa May was criticising the National Trust and the National Trust quite clearly has not dropped references to Easter.

    That said, I am not sure how Cadbury's are going to prevent Moslems seeing this:

    https://www.cadburygiftsdirect.co.uk/gift-ideas/shop-by-occasion/easter-gifts.html

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited April 2017

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    You can't deny that they changed the name of it though. It's just an effort to remove the religious connotations (as they themselves said in the link isam provided). Rather than doing it all in one go, they've opted for a more gradual approach.

    The National Trust quite clearly has not removed references to Easter and it was the National Trust that Theresa May was criticising this morning.

    “Easter’s very important. It’s important to me ... It’s a very important festival for the Christian faith for millions across the world. So I think what the National Trust is doing is frankly just ridiculous.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/04/theresa-may-condemns-national-trust-for-axing-easter-from-egg-hunt

    They appear to have changed their website in the interim, but Sky does have a screenshot

    http://news.sky.com/story/church-fury-as-easter-airbrushed-from-cadbury-egg-hunt-10824162

    This is what it is now:

    https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/join-the-cadbury-egg-hunts-this-easter
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2017

    Walking away is always a choice. Obviously, the politics may demand that the Tories walk away, but shouldn't they be putting the good of the country first even if it costs them votes?

    Of course, and they will. Theresa May is the most uncynical of all politicians. Even if she were as cynical as Peter Mandelson or Alastair Campbell, it's not as though she's exactly desperate for votes. Of course she'll put the good of the country first.

    But, it takes two (or in this case 28 plus the EU parliament) to tango, and if the other side sit resolutely with their backs turned towards us, then the dance won't happen.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2017
    RobD said:

    @TUD - caps lock stuck on your post there? :o

    It's c&p from the link. Buggered if I'm going to type it all out in lower case.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    @TUD - caps lock stuck on your post there? :o

    It's c&p from the link. Buggered if I'm going to type it all out in lower case.
    Hah! For future reference, you can easily do that in Word by using "change case" under format.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The first chocolate Easter egg was made in 1873.

    Jesus died a bit before then.

    https://twitter.com/EasterWatch/status/843911054837121024
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Eastergate -- even hot cross buns are sold all years round now, and have been for years -- nearly as long as Cadbury's Creme Eggs. In Sainsbury's last week, we noticed its Easter lemon cakes (because nothing says Easter like lemons) had no mention of Easter on the manufacturer's packaging.

    Has Plato rejoined the government since leaving pb? Easter and Gibraltar -- this is Trump's throneroom tweets as political strategy to distract the fake news MSM. Claps.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2017
    Personally, I think the Easter Egg Blasphemy Debate is quite delicious. Much more so than the sugary goo-balls themselves.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Not difficult, malc. https://www.england.nhs.uk/2017/03/staff-survey/

    The England survey, published 4 weeks ago, shows that "... 80% of frontline NHS say they are able to do their job to a standard they are personally pleased with, 90% of staff say their job makes a difference for patients, and 92% of staff feel trusted to do their jobs."

    As against the Scotland results "46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked." Those are results for last year. I will take a wild guess and say that the 46% figure is significantly higher than that for the current year.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849180132585689088

    @faisalislam: ...means it will be concluded under EU27 unanimity not A50 QMV. At end of A50 she says "everyone will know what future arrangement will be"

    @faisalislam: ... PM tells me that this is "sensible" and "pragmatic"...

    @faisalislam: ... so that's a veto not just for Spain but for everyone including Wallonia too

    That's pretty obvious though, isn't it? We deal with the EU as a single body in order to sort out how we leave, then the EU finalises a trade deal with us just as it would with any other third party - some countries may even need referendums before signing up. What it also means, of course, is that there is absolutely no way on earth the deal can be done before we leave the EU. So that does either mean the cliff edge or a transitional deal.
    Who frankly cares that much about a deal, it is a minority of firms that deal with the eu. About 5% of our total trade and I dont see why I as a tax payer should subsidise your firm. If we pay anything to the eu for access to the single market after leaving then I think those that trade with the eu such as your company should be the ones paying it and not dipping in to my wallet.

    Does that mean we get to pay no Corporation tax on our EU-derived profits? Maybe our employees could pay less tax too? What do you reckon?

    Why should you pay no tax on eu derived profits. Firms that trade with China do the only difference is they are not subsidised by british tax payers. Why should your company be subsidised? You trade with europe good for you pay the true cost of doing business there dont expect me to pay it for you

    My company is not subsidised. My company is a net contributor and its employees - all of whom earn well over the minimum wage - are also paying a great deal of tax. If you do not like that, I am sorry. All that Brexit will do is lead us to reduce investments made in our UK office and increase them elsewhere. That will mean we pay less tax in the UK than we do now and will create fewer jobs in the UK.
    Chap's clearly a moron. Save your energy for someone who passed kindergarten economics.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    @TUD - caps lock stuck on your post there? :o

    It's c&p from the link. Buggered if I'm going to type it all out in lower case.
    Hah! For future reference, you can easily do that in Word by using "change case" under format.
    Thanks, I'd wondered if that was possible, now I know!
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    <

    That's pretty obvious though, isn't it? We deal with the EU as a single body in order to sort out how we leave, then the EU finalises a trade deal with us just as it would with any other third party - some countries may even need referendums before signing up. What it also means, of course, is that there is absolutely no way on earth the deal can be done before we leave the EU. So that does either mean the cliff edge or a transitional deal.

    Who wallet.

    Does that mean we get to pay no Corporation tax on our EU-derived profits? Maybe our employees could pay less tax too? What do you reckon?

    My than we do now and will create fewer jobs in the UK.

    Your company is subsidised.

    To be in the single market costs us 13.5 billion a year

    We do 220 billion or so exports to the eu

    shit

    Ha, UK.

    Still a subsidy. Millions of people work for companies that dont trade with the eu. We all have to pay however so that the minority of firms that do get single market access. The taxpayers pay on average 300£ a year for your privelege, You remainers keep on about economic arguments all I am saying is that going forward from now is that those firms that benefit should pay the cost not the rest of us. Why do you find that a problem and yes by the way I am a net contributor to the treasury as I earn enough

    We are paying £10 billion a year to be an EU member state. That is about a lot more than being part of the single market for business. Because I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment. You see that as a price worth paying. You are entitled to your view.

    And if my company can be a net contributor to the Treasury but still be subsidised, I am afraid that you can be too.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    JPJ2 said:

    David Herdson suggested there might have been no polling on the forthcoming local elections in Scotland.

    In fact Wings over Scotland commissioned such a Panelbase poll and published the results on his website on 14 February this year.

    His summary of the percentage support for each party from "likely voters" was

    SNP 47
    Con 26
    Lab 14
    LD 5
    Green 4
    UKIP 3
    Other 1

    Only the STV system will save the British Labour Party in Scotland, who were only 1% behind the SNP in 2012, from utter devastation. This is partly due to Tory and Labour supporters giving later preference votes to their unionist friends. It is even possible that Tory/Labour administrations may well emerge after May 2017.

    I also anticipate significant gains for the Conservatives which will be trumpeted as a vote against an independence referendum. Even with the compliant unionist media pushing this line, it will not be convincing, as the Tories will be substantially outpolled by the SNP.

    AND in the background is the recent opinion poll indicating that in Scotland 61 per cent believed Holyrood should decide if there should be a new independence referendum compared with 39 per cent who thought it should be Westminster.

    Badly advised by Ruth Davidson, May (who suggested the local elections should be used by voters to indicate opposition to another referendum) finds herself on the wrong side of the "who decides" argument, and the longer the delay, the more the demographics favour a Yes vote next time.

    My guess is that you can take 4% off the SNP in that poll and add them to Labour. Otherwise it looks and feels about right. Traditionally it was the toxic Tories who got badly hurt by STV but this time the pain may well be shared around.
    There was also a Ipsos Mori /STV poll more recently

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Scotland/scotland-pom-mar-2017-charts.pdf

    The implication of the council voting question is quite stark.

    'Local elections
    IN ELECTIONS FOR LOCAL COUNCILS IN SCOTLAND YOU PLACE THE CANDIDATES WHO ARE STANDING IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE. I AM GOING TO READ OUT A LIST OF PARTIES, ONCE I HAVE FINISHED COULD YOU TELL ME WHICH PARTY YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR FIRST VOTE TO IF THE ELECTION WAS BEING HELD TOMORROW.'

    18% for SCons, 1% in front of SLab.
    Let me make the not particularly brave prediction that again we'll be getting a lot of the Ruth Davidson Party, not so much of the Conservative Party.
    As with all the polls on Scottish local elections , this one is useless as it has Independents/Others at 1% where in reality they will get 10-12% of the votes and seats .
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    WRT Scotland, one should expect Independents to win 10-15% of the vote, so adjust the parties' scores accordingly.

    I expect that the Conservatives, Lib Dems, and Labour will all pick up transfers from each other, which will mitigate Labour's losses to an extent.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    You can't deny that they changed the name of it though. It's just an effort to remove the religious connotations (as they themselves said in the link isam provided). Rather than doing it all in one go, they've opted for a more gradual approach.

    The National Trust quite clearly has not removed references to Easter and it was the National Trust that Theresa May was criticising this morning.

    “Easter’s very important. It’s important to me ... It’s a very important festival for the Christian faith for millions across the world. So I think what the National Trust is doing is frankly just ridiculous.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/04/theresa-may-condemns-national-trust-for-axing-easter-from-egg-hunt

    They appear to have changed their website in the interim, but Sky does have a screenshot

    http://news.sky.com/story/church-fury-as-easter-airbrushed-from-cadbury-egg-hunt-10824162

    This is what it is now:

    https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/join-the-cadbury-egg-hunts-this-easter
    SO is against mom, apple pie and the Easter bunny. And he's the sane voice of the Labour movement.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Wow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39485200

    Tesla's market value has overtaken that of Ford after shares in the electric car maker added more than 7%.
    At the close of trading Tesla had a market value of $49bn (£38bn), compared with Ford's value of $46bn.
    Tesla's shares rose on Monday after the company announced record vehicle deliveries in the first three months of the year.
    The firm delivered more than 25,000 cars in the first quarter, up 70% on the same quarter last year.
    While Tesla's sales are growing fast they are still a fraction of Ford's, which sold almost 6.7 million vehicles in 2016.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited April 2017

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    The main logo no longer mentions Easter, Cadburys did this because they want to appeal to all religions and none. Now they can be flexible as to how much they mention it. Maybe in the Muslim ghettos of East London and Birmingham Easter will appear on their advertising, maybe it won't.

    So what? They have made a commercial decision. Theresa May was criticising the National Trust and the National Trust quite clearly has not dropped references to Easter.

    That said, I am not sure how Cadbury's are going to prevent Moslems seeing this:

    https://www.cadburygiftsdirect.co.uk/gift-ideas/shop-by-occasion/easter-gifts.html

    Yes they've made a commercial decision, I never said any different. In fact it's what I said all along.

    I am sorry you never read what I wrote and are replying to what you thought I said :lol:
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727

    I agree with the comments down thread. Brexit has not got off to a good start. The ludicrous Dad's Army stuff from Howard, The Sun etc. seems designed to wreck our relationship with mainland Europe irreparably. I can only assume these people have looked at Trump with envious eyes and decided that some kind of 51st-state arrangement is desirably - no other explanation makes any kind of sense. On Sunday, even the normally restrained SeanT descended into Bannonite, sub-Nietzschean drivel and openly proclaimed his craving for war. If an intellectual of that standing can become infected with this lust for jingoism and conflict what hope the low-graders? Truly worrying times.

    "the normally restrained SeanT"
    Are there two of them?
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Personally, I think the Easter Egg Blasphemy Debate is quite delicious. Much more so than the sugary goo-balls themselves.

    It's a winner for May, for sure.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    JPJ2 said:

    David Herdson suggested there might have been no polling on the forthcoming local elections in Scotland.

    In fact Wings over Scotland commissioned such a Panelbase poll and published the results on his website on 14 February this year.

    His summary of the percentage support for each party from "likely voters" was

    SNP 47
    Con 26
    Lab 14
    LD 5
    Green 4
    UKIP 3
    Other 1

    Only the STV system will save the British Labour Party in Scotland, who were only 1% behind the SNP in 2012, from utter devastation. This is partly due to Tory and Labour supporters giving later preference votes to their unionist friends. It is even possible that Tory/Labour administrations may well emerge after May 2017.

    I also anticipate significant gains for the Conservatives which will be trumpeted as a vote against an independence referendum. Even with the compliant unionist media pushing this line, it will not be convincing, as the Tories will be substantially outpolled by the SNP.

    AND in the background is the recent opinion poll indicating that in Scotland 61 per cent believed Holyrood should decide if there should be a new independence referendum compared with 39 per cent who thought it should be Westminster.

    Badly advised by Ruth Davidson, May (who suggested the local elections should be used by voters to indicate opposition to another referendum) finds herself on the wrong side of the "who decides" argument, and the longer the delay, the more the demographics favour a Yes vote next time.

    My guess is that you can take 4% off the SNP in that poll and add them to Labour. Otherwise it looks and feels about right. Traditionally it was the toxic Tories who got badly hurt by STV but this time the pain may well be shared around.
    There was also a Ipsos Mori /STV poll more recently

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Scotland/scotland-pom-mar-2017-charts.pdf

    The implication of the council voting question is quite stark.

    'Local elections
    IN ELECTIONS FOR LOCAL COUNCILS IN SCOTLAND YOU PLACE THE CANDIDATES WHO ARE STANDING IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE. I AM GOING TO READ OUT A LIST OF PARTIES, ONCE I HAVE FINISHED COULD YOU TELL ME WHICH PARTY YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR FIRST VOTE TO IF THE ELECTION WAS BEING HELD TOMORROW.'

    18% for SCons, 1% in front of SLab.
    Let me make the not particularly brave prediction that again we'll be getting a lot of the Ruth Davidson Party, not so much of the Conservative Party.
    As with all the polls on Scottish local elections , this one is useless as it has Independents/Others at 1% where in reality they will get 10-12% of the votes and seats .
    But a reasonable indication of attitudes to the main parties.
    And the LDs & UKIP.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    When debates on here go on and on, you just have to be thankful you're not the type to be simultaneously arguing on Twitter about it as well ... can you imagine?!?! :confounded:
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Personally, I think the Easter Egg Blasphemy Debate is quite delicious. Much more so than the sugary goo-balls themselves.

    It's a winner for May, for sure.
    Sensible middle aged Christian lady vs American multinational that rots your kids teeth? Are you sure?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Harry Cole‏ @MrHarryCole
    On the day Ken could be booted out of Labour over Hitler-gate, he has pinpointed where the real blame lies: pesky Jewish journalists.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094
    Whereas my firm (a manufacturer) is increasing investment in the UK and creating more jobs. We are currently based in Switzerland for tax purposes. Maybe that will change?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The National Trust and Cadbury have dropped 'Easter' from the official title of their hunt.

    They mention it elsewhere, but it probably is significant they don't have it in the title

    'Cadbury, which sponsors the event, said that it wanted to appeal to non-Christians, saying: "We invite people from all faiths and none to enjoy our seasonal treats." '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/easter-egg-row-church-england-accuses-national-trust-airbrushing/

    It is an utter disgrace:
    https://twitter.com/familymanc/status/849168807310630912
    You can think it a disgrace if you like, I say who can blame them? They want to sell chocolate, and other faiths might be put off.

    In a Muslim ghetto area they can just advertise it as an egg hunt, drop mentions of 'easter', let the kids eat 'seasonal treats' and not have to change the main motif. Business is business

    "Enjoy Easter fun"

    The main logo no longer mentions Easter, Cadburys did this because they want to appeal to all religions and none. Now they can be flexible as to how much they mention it. Maybe in the Muslim ghettos of East London and Birmingham Easter will appear on their advertising, maybe it won't.

    So what? They have made a commercial decision. Theresa May was criticising the National Trust and the National Trust quite clearly has not dropped references to Easter.

    That said, I am not sure how Cadbury's are going to prevent Moslems seeing this:

    https://www.cadburygiftsdirect.co.uk/gift-ideas/shop-by-occasion/easter-gifts.html

    Yes they've made a commercial decision, I never said any different. In fact it's what I said all along.

    I am sorry you never read what I wrote and are replying to what you thought I said :lol:

    Yeah, right :-)

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2017
    No show without Punch. Is he much of a churchgoer, does anyone know?

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/849186652723585024
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426
    edited April 2017
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Meanwhile, back among the grown ups:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/news/84829/philip-hammond-trade-india-‘more-important-ever’-after-brexit
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Walking away is always a choice. Obviously, the politics may demand that the Tories walk away, but shouldn't they be putting the good of the country first even if it costs them votes?

    Of course, and they will. Theresa May is the most uncynical of all politicians.
    pft. TM is as cynical as the rest of 'em.

    Take this wolfwhistling exercise from back in 2013;

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/22/go-home-billboards-pulled

    Had nothing to do with actually addressing the problem - it was cheap virtue signalling to the racist tory/kipper base.

    Deeply cynical and very effective.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849180132585689088

    @faisalislam: ...means it will be concluded under EU27 unanimity not A50 QMV. At end of A50 she says "everyone will know what future arrangement will be"

    @faisalislam: ... PM tells me that this is "sensible" and "pragmatic"...

    @faisalislam: ... so that's a veto not just for Spain but for everyone including Wallonia too

    Well that is definitely NOT to our advantage.
    We sit there resolutely muttering, "we're happy to do a super-comprehensive trade deal".

    They meanwhile discuss installing barriers that will damage their own partners in the 27.

    They will end up threatening each other or having to buy each other off. Grexit and the migration handling problems are perfect illustrations of this behaviour in action.

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.
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    SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    Re: the Easter egg debate. Many years ago I worked near the East End of London, which in those days had a big Jewish population. I was walking down Middlesex Street (Petticoat Lane) when I saw a sign in a shop saying: "We sell Kosher Easter eggs.". Naively I wondered what a Kosher Easter egg looked like and wandered in to see the usual array of Cadbury's eggs. I then realised the joke and rushed out of the shop.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    I've invested in a new photocopier, since Brexit.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Anorak said:

    Pagan said:

    Pagan said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849180132585689088

    @faisalislam: ...means it will be concluded under EU27 unanimity not A50 QMV. At end of A50 she says "everyone will know what future arrangement will be"

    @faisalislam: ... PM tells me that this is "sensible" and "pragmatic"...

    @faisalislam: ... so that's a veto not just for Spain but for everyone including Wallonia too

    That's pretty obvious though, isn't it? We deal with the EU as a single body in order to sort out how we leave, then the EU finalises a trade deal with us just as it would with any other third party - some countries may even need referendums before signing up. What it also means, of course, is that there is absolutely no way on earth the deal can be done before we leave the EU. So that does either mean the cliff edge or a transitional deal.
    Who frankly cares that much about a deal, it is a minority of firms that deal with the eu. About 5% of our total trade and I dont see why I as a tax payer should subsidise your firm. If we pay anything to the eu for access to the single market after leaving then I think those that trade with the eu such as your company should be the ones paying it and not dipping in to my wallet.

    Does that mean we get to pay no Corporation tax on our EU-derived profits? Maybe our employees could pay less tax too? What do you reckon?

    Why should you pay no tax on eu derived profits. Firms that trade with China do the only difference is they are not subsidised by british tax payers. Why should your company be subsidised? You trade with europe good for you pay the true cost of doing business there dont expect me to pay it for you

    My company is not subsidised. My company is a net contributor and its employees - all of whom earn well over the minimum wage - are also paying a great deal of tax. If you do not like that, I am sorry. All that Brexit will do is lead us to reduce investments made in our UK office and increase them elsewhere. That will mean we pay less tax in the UK than we do now and will create fewer jobs in the UK.
    Chap's clearly a moron. Save your energy for someone who passed kindergarten economics.
    Civil language please when referring to other posters. He is not a moron - from it.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Cultural cringe. England as point of reference. Ignore the SNP dog's dinner of health provision in Scotland.
    Just to prove that position is far superior in Scotland to Carlotta's much vaunted English NHS numbers.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,897
    chestnut said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/849180132585689088

    @faisalislam: ...means it will be concluded under EU27 unanimity not A50 QMV. At end of A50 she says "everyone will know what future arrangement will be"

    @faisalislam: ... PM tells me that this is "sensible" and "pragmatic"...

    @faisalislam: ... so that's a veto not just for Spain but for everyone including Wallonia too

    Well that is definitely NOT to our advantage.
    We sit there resolutely muttering, "we're happy to do a super-comprehensive trade deal".

    They meanwhile discuss installing barriers that will damage their own partners in the 27.

    They will end up threatening each other or having to buy each other off. Grexit and the migration handling problems are perfect illustrations of this behaviour in action.

    My God! it makes me shiver to thiink how they'll manage without us.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Is Mr. Jessup about? Some happy news on the UK engineering front. The UK taking a world first at advanced manufacturing techniques, no less. This is the sort of thing that will make the UK's future, not Mr Observer's worry about shifting a few jobs to the EU area to save a few bob.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/amrc-furnace-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-titanium-casting/
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Cultural cringe. England as point of reference. Ignore the SNP dog's dinner of health provision in Scotland.
    Just to prove that position is far superior in Scotland to Carlotta's much vaunted English NHS numbers.
    It is? Which numbers are you using to back up this claim?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Cultural cringe. England as point of reference. Ignore the SNP dog's dinner of health provision in Scotland.
    Just to prove that position is far superior in Scotland to Carlotta's much vaunted English NHS numbers.
    Oh, I see! The SNP have suppressed the numbers because they're better than England's?

    First time for everything I suppose.....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2017
    Corbyn making a twat of himself again....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/apr/04/khan-promises-worlds-first-ultra-low-emission-zone-to-tackle-londons-lethal-air-politics-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    The evil tories killing all the oldies early and the media to blame for his bad polling.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727

    Is Mr. Jessup about? Some happy news on the UK engineering front. The UK taking a world first at advanced manufacturing techniques, no less. This is the sort of thing that will make the UK's future, not Mr Observer's worry about shifting a few jobs to the EU area to save a few bob.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/amrc-furnace-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-titanium-casting/

    Presumably the titanium casting technology was being worked on before the referendum.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sean_F said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    I've invested in a new photocopier, since Brexit.
    HA! I have bought not only a new mouse but also a new Kindle Reader (the last one died) not quite sure our investments have much on the billions being poured in by Honda and Co though.

    P.S. I read this morning that the French bank PNB-Paribas (spelling?) is forecasting a 6.5% increase in the value of sterling in the rest of 2017. If their prediction turns out to be correct, and its a bank so that must be a big if, I am not sure if that will be a net positive for the UK.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Everything's going so well:

    The views of frontline NHS workers will not be made public for at least two years after the Scottish Government confirmed the existing staff survey format has been scrapped. Results of the last staff questionnaire for 2016 were supposed to be published in December but no information regarding how beleaguered NHS staff feel about their working environment will be made available until January 2018 at the earliest.

    The last staff survey published in December 2015 found that 46 per cent of the 60,681 workers who took part said they were unable to do their jobs properly because they were overworked.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-accused-of-attempting-to-silence-nhs-staff-over-survey-1-4411141

    Shows us the NHS England stats
    Cultural cringe. England as point of reference. Ignore the SNP dog's dinner of health provision in Scotland.
    Just to prove that position is far superior in Scotland to Carlotta's much vaunted English NHS numbers.
    The SNP occupation government has put an embargo on the Scottish numbers. Obviously frontline NHS workers in Scotland are mutinous and the regime isn't listening.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Is Mr. Jessup about? Some happy news on the UK engineering front. The UK taking a world first at advanced manufacturing techniques, no less. This is the sort of thing that will make the UK's future, not Mr Observer's worry about shifting a few jobs to the EU area to save a few bob.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/amrc-furnace-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-titanium-casting/

    As long as they pronounce titanium correctly and not as tight-anium. We've already lost Uranus to the American maiden aunts.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    It seems to come down to businesses that trade mainly in Europe are going to have to rejig things to work with the new constraints, but that cuts both ways and it might mean as little as opening an office in the UK or EU. For businesses whose trade is mainly beyond Europe the EU issue is much less important, and there is little sign of a loss of appetite for doing business with and in the UK.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    DavidL said:

    In the last few days we have had truly absurd stories about Gibraltar and now Easter Eggs. Perhaps we find real news too depressing.


    It's parliamentary recess. So no spoon fed political news for the media to use.

    Follow Alex Crawford in Mosul reports on Sky for real news.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Is Mr. Jessup about? Some happy news on the UK engineering front. The UK taking a world first at advanced manufacturing techniques, no less. This is the sort of thing that will make the UK's future, not Mr Observer's worry about shifting a few jobs to the EU area to save a few bob.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/amrc-furnace-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-titanium-casting/

    As long as they pronounce titanium correctly and not as tight-anium. We've already lost Uranus to the American maiden aunts.
    At least they don't pronounce it tid-anium. :D
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    RobD said:

    Is Mr. Jessup about? Some happy news on the UK engineering front. The UK taking a world first at advanced manufacturing techniques, no less. This is the sort of thing that will make the UK's future, not Mr Observer's worry about shifting a few jobs to the EU area to save a few bob.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/amrc-furnace-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-titanium-casting/

    As long as they pronounce titanium correctly and not as tight-anium. We've already lost Uranus to the American maiden aunts.
    At least they don't pronounce it tid-anium. :D
    New-Kew-ler.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    glw said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    It seems to come down to businesses that trade mainly in Europe are going to have to rejig things to work with the new constraints, but that cuts both ways and it might mean as little as opening an office in the UK or EU. For businesses whose trade is mainly beyond Europe the EU issue is much less important, and there is little sign of a loss of appetite for doing business with and in the UK.
    If the government shows any sign that it's serious about leaving the single market then businesses might respond. So far it's all bluff and bluster.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    Sean_F said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    I've invested in a new photocopier, since Brexit.
    HA! I have bought not only a new mouse but also a new Kindle Reader (the last one died) not quite sure our investments have much on the billions being poured in by Honda and Co though.

    From tiny acorns, mighty oaks do grow.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    glw said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    It seems to come down to businesses that trade mainly in Europe are going to have to rejig things to work with the new constraints, but that cuts both ways and it might mean as little as opening an office in the UK or EU. For businesses whose trade is mainly beyond Europe the EU issue is much less important, and there is little sign of a loss of appetite for doing business with and in the UK.
    If the government shows any sign that it's serious about leaving the single market then businesses might respond. So far it's all bluff and bluster.
    They've been talking of nothing but leaving the single market!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058

    DavidL said:

    In the last few days we have had truly absurd stories about Gibraltar and now Easter Eggs. Perhaps we find real news too depressing.


    It's parliamentary recess. So no spoon fed political news for the media to use.

    Follow Alex Crawford in Mosul reports on Sky for real news.
    Dreadful, isn’t it.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    If the government shows any sign that it's serious about leaving the single market then businesses might respond. So far it's all bluff and bluster.

    Thanks for your completely unpredictable response.

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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    geoffw said:

    Walking away from the Brexit talks without a deal and creating an offshore, low tax, low wage, low regulation state in which public services are pared to the bone would not be something that anyone to the left of Cameron or Osborne would do. If you are saying May's threats on this are empty, then she is clearly not a very good negotiator.

    What you are missing is that she might not have any choice. To pare it down to its absolute basics, if the EU say '€50bn or there's no deal' (which they might well), then there's no deal, despite the fact that Mrs May is entirely sincere in wanting a good relationship with the EU27.

    In that case, she'd have no choice but to blame the foreigners - which would be fair enough in that scenario - and Phil Hammond would have no choice but to try to mitigate the economic damage by extremely business-friendly policies and cuts to public spending.

    This is the logic of the Brexit vote and the (possible) EU response to it. It's not a threat created by the PM, it's not what she wants, but it's what we might get if the EU27 are stupid enough to overplay their hand as drastically as they seem to be intending.

    Walking away is always a choice. Obviously, the politics may demand that the Tories walk away, but shouldn't they be putting the good of the country first even if it costs them votes?

    Walking away could well be "putting the good of the country first".
    Haggle a bit - which the EU may expect - and offer to pay the resulting figure off in instalments, 5 or 7 years of easy payments of X £100 million per month.

    After all, this govt. never ceases to compare issuing bonds to an individual taking on a credit card debt.

    The above could be rather easier than returning to the 19th.C and inflicting the resulting inequality and hardship on the low-paid sections of the population.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    glw said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    It seems to come down to businesses that trade mainly in Europe are going to have to rejig things to work with the new constraints, but that cuts both ways and it might mean as little as opening an office in the UK or EU. For businesses whose trade is mainly beyond Europe the EU issue is much less important, and there is little sign of a loss of appetite for doing business with and in the UK.
    I quite agree, Mr. GLW, and as most of the UK's trade is outside the EU and we seem to do quite well with it, I am unsure why leaving the EU Single Market even without a trade deal should be such an awful prospect as Mr. Observer et al like to make out.

    Anyhw, the 14th century is calling and I am off for a few hours to re-visit the Black Death.

    Play nicely all.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    glw said:

    " I believe that leaving the single market will lead to a lot of companies downgrading their UK investments I think that we should remain a part of it even if that involves paying in. The alternative, in my view, is that there will be fewer jobs created in the UK and less inward investment."

    No doubt some companies will invest less in the UK, but there is precious little sign of it so far. In fact quite the opposite with a fair number of the really big boys actually announcing an increase in investment (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Boeing, Google). You'll forgive me if I remain unfazed by your arguments.

    It seems to come down to businesses that trade mainly in Europe are going to have to rejig things to work with the new constraints, but that cuts both ways and it might mean as little as opening an office in the UK or EU. For businesses whose trade is mainly beyond Europe the EU issue is much less important, and there is little sign of a loss of appetite for doing business with and in the UK.

    We do around 30% of our business in Europe, 50% in the US and 20% in Asia. Our plan is to focus much more on the latter two in the future, out of our offices in Washington DC and Hong Kong. Depending on the final Brexit deal, we may end up opening an office in an EU member state, too.

    For companies that do their business mostly online or in the Cloud, the UK is going to remain an attractive venue whether we are in the EU or not - as long as the ability to recruit highly-skilled staff is not affected by changes to immigration laws. But the degree to which we are not a part of the Single Market is almost inevitably going to have a direct impact on future investment decisions taken by many manufacturing and assembly based businesses.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    @Scott_P - to be fair, a day later I think she did defend the judiciary.
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