The figures show why PR can work well - because there are so many parties, one can vote quite precisely for what one wants, but the broad coalitions are reasonably obvious. I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
The figures show why PR can work well - because there are so many parties, one can vote quite precisely for what one wants, but the broad coalitions are reasonably obvious. I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
Have you been to Northern Ireland?
Well, I said "can" rather than "will". If the community is deeply divided, the electoral system isn't a perfect cure. But would NI work better if there were just two main parties, with e.g. SDLP and Sinn Fein forced to work together?
The figures show why PR can work well - because there are so many parties, one can vote quite precisely for what one wants, but the broad coalitions are reasonably obvious. I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
The figures show why PR can work well - because there are so many parties, one can vote quite precisely for what one wants, but the broad coalitions are reasonably obvious. I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
Yes. I was an FPP man, but that's well argued Nick. I'm coming around to the idea.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
I'm no expert in Dutch politics but I think the foreign media desire to paint Wilders as part of the 'populist' narrative is at fault here. He is not really all that similar to Farage, Le Pen, or Trump. He is a single issue islamophobe extremist, with nothing to say on the economy or even much to say on the EU. Frankly, considering some of his latest comments on moroccan scum, it is still unnerving how highly they have scored.
So I don't know that we can yet interpret this as a backlash against the trumpian populist wave, certainly not in France which is in a very different situation to the Netherlands (worse economy, bigger problems with terrorism etc - much closer to tipping point). Le Pen is much closer to Trump in her overall programme - anti-islam only makes up 1 part of that.
I think it's more likely than not that Macron beats her in round 2 (Fillon would've lost against her, but he is now so damaged that he almost certainly won't make the second round) - but Macron has no real solid base, he is kind of lightweight, and things could easily turn in her favour.
In short, I think there will be a misplaced overreaction against Le Pen following these results.
Plus Rutte has won largely by stealing some of Wilders clothes, Macron will certainly not do that plus while Wilders has failed to win his voteshare is still up. In the 2014 European elections the PVV came 3rd in the Netherlands when the FN came 1st in France
That was the one where poor Billy Hague got sent out to take one for the team, facing the media storm asking why the government response was slow and shit. He was of course fully aware that the Hereford branch of the diplomatic service were scrambling in the background, and a few days later all went rather well in their rather daring evacuation of the desert oilfields.
The figures show why PR can work well - because there are so many parties, one can vote quite precisely for what one wants, but the broad coalitions are reasonably obvious. I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
Of course. But it's a deep social aspect. We are a society of bear baiters, cock fighters and prize fighters, and we like to see the victor standing victorious over his battered rival. This requires two contestants not several. In our case a common criticism of the LibDems is that they are not for one or tuther and hence unreliable. et cetera.
So, VVD + CDA + D66 (essentially a LD - Conservative coalition) looks inevitable, but it'll need someone else to get it over 75 seats?
The oldies? The Christians? The Calvinists? The Animal Lovers? The Environmentalists?
The Calvinists never go into government, though presumably they'd be more likely to vote Right than Left.
Interesting how many different types of parties can pop up inder PR. I wonder what we could have if we had PR.....a Methodist party maybe.
If we had pure PR like the Dutch, and treated the whole UK as single constituency, a party would only need to win 0.17% of the vote to get into Parliament.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
So, VVD + CDA + D66 (essentially a LD - Conservative coalition) looks inevitable, but it'll need someone else to get it over 75 seats?
The oldies? The Christians? The Calvinists? The Animal Lovers? The Environmentalists?
The Calvinists never go into government, though presumably they'd be more likely to vote Right than Left.
Interesting how many different types of parties can pop up inder PR. I wonder what we could have if we had PR.....a Methodist party maybe.
If we had pure PR like the Dutch, and treated the whole UK as single constituency, a party would only need to win 0.17% of the vote to get into Parliament.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
So, VVD + CDA + D66 (essentially a LD - Conservative coalition) looks inevitable, but it'll need someone else to get it over 75 seats?
The oldies? The Christians? The Calvinists? The Animal Lovers? The Environmentalists?
The Calvinists never go into government, though presumably they'd be more likely to vote Right than Left.
Interesting how many different types of parties can pop up inder PR. I wonder what we could have if we had PR.....a Methodist party maybe.
If we had pure PR like the Dutch, and treated the whole UK as single constituency, a party would only need to win 0.17% of the vote to get into Parliament.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
Bloody hell what a silly system.....The ISIS Party could win seats under that system. 0.17% is way too low. A 5% threshold is about right.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
This looks suspiciously like GE 2015 !
Not quite . It matches the 2015 Tory vote , but Labour and UKIP are down a bit with the LDs and Grns higher. Green vote looks a bit high , but beyond that the figures are not far off what Opinium have been coming up with over recent months - though the Tory lead of circa 8% is down on 13% in mid February.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Opinium have said if they don't flag up VI on their commentary, then we are to assume a full suite VI question wasn't asked.
Monaco 3-1 Manchester City Phil Neville - Former Manchester United defender on Radio 5 live Posted at 21:22 It was Monaco's first attack of the second half. There is another goal in this game, I put my life on it.
I think that's really a better system than FPTP, which forces nearly everyone into two lumbering coalitions of people constantly scrapping with each other.
Of course, FPTP does have the advantage of forcing those 'lumbering coalitions' to put together a manifesto in advance of the election and present it to the electorate, who can then hold them accountable for it. As, for instance, with the government's climb-down over National Insurance. Had we had the kind of PR system you suggest, Hammond could have blamed his coalition partners, his coalition partners could have blamed him, and the tax hike would have gone through.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Opinium have said if they don't flag up VI on their commentary, then we are to assume a full suite VI question wasn't asked.
There was a new YouGov today with Con 44%, Lab 27%, LD 10%, UKIP 9%.
Who remembers the good old days of the daily YouGov? And us all trying to guess whether or not the fact it wasn't tweeted by the Sun in the early evening was a good or bad sign.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Opinium have said if they don't flag up VI on their commentary, then we are to assume a full suite VI question wasn't asked.
So why do they give out these figures ?
They don't, what we have here is some data to get a nationally representative sample for non VI questions.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Opinium have said if they don't flag up VI on their commentary, then we are to assume a full suite VI question wasn't asked.
Data from Opinium poll completed on 7th March appears to generate the following Voting intention figures :
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You keep on doing this, if it is full VI suite of questions, the pollster will flag up the VI, if they don't, you shouldn't extrapolate those figures yourself.
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
We all know about Comres by now - though they did start Voting Intention polls again last month. However, I was not aware that Opinium had also talked down its data on this.
Opinium have said if they don't flag up VI on their commentary, then we are to assume a full suite VI question wasn't asked.
I have been entirely unmoved by the mini shambles over NIC. The entire episode has merely exposed again what a tragic excuse for an opposition we have. Labour have out shambled the government.
Yvette Cooper's intervention was good. She showed the same ability to make a comment that cut through that stood out because it is lacking in the front man. Nothing in this case to do with shades of political opinion, just basic competence or the lack of it.
There was a new YouGov today with Con 44%, Lab 27%, LD 10%, UKIP 9%.
Who remembers the good old days of the daily YouGov? And us all trying to guess whether or not the fact it wasn't tweeted by the Sun in the early evening was a good or bad sign.
Indeed and the resultants = 'tick tock' and 'eicipm'
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
The PVV will be up on last time, but down on 2010.
I have been entirely unmoved by the mini shambles over NIC. The entire episode has merely exposed again what a tragic excuse for an opposition we have. Labour have out shambled the government.
Yvette Cooper's intervention was good. She showed the same ability to make a comment that cut through that stood out because it is lacking in the front man. Nothing in this case to do with shades of political opinion, just basic competence or the lack of it.
That was the only good bit. McDonnell was pathetic. He was backing rich Accountants and Barristers paying less NIC. Corbyn as usual was abysmal.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Wilders is only going to get about 10% of the total vote. He got an awful lot of coverage for that - a bit as though the whole western world was riveted by the performance of the British LibDems.
The exit poll says 19%... you think the PVV will be down on last time?
19 seats, not 19%. That's about 13%.
13% is exactly the total they got in the 2014 Euro elections
There was a new YouGov today with Con 44%, Lab 27%, LD 10%, UKIP 9%.
Who remembers the good old days of the daily YouGov? And us all trying to guess whether or not the fact it wasn't tweeted by the Sun in the early evening was a good or bad sign.
Indeed and the resultants = 'tick tock' and 'eicipm'
So, VVD + CDA + D66 (essentially a LD - Conservative coalition) looks inevitable, but it'll need someone else to get it over 75 seats?
The oldies? The Christians? The Calvinists? The Animal Lovers? The Environmentalists?
The Calvinists never go into government, though presumably they'd be more likely to vote Right than Left.
Interesting how many different types of parties can pop up inder PR. I wonder what we could have if we had PR.....a Methodist party maybe.
If we had pure PR like the Dutch, and treated the whole UK as single constituency, a party would only need to win 0.17% of the vote to get into Parliament.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
So that's a no from you, you don't want to comment on The Telegraph front page.
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
So that's a no from you, you don't want to comment on The Telegraph front page.
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
So that's a no from you, you don't want to comment on The Telegraph front page.
Why am I not surprised.
Not seen the DT front page.
Both have been posted on this thread, but you only decided to focus on the FT.
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
So that's a no from you, you don't want to comment on The Telegraph front page.
Why am I not surprised.
Not seen the DT front page.
The one posted after the Indy and FT ones and before your post? That one?
I have been entirely unmoved by the mini shambles over NIC. The entire episode has merely exposed again what a tragic excuse for an opposition we have. Labour have out shambled the government.
Yvette Cooper's intervention was good. She showed the same ability to make a comment that cut through that stood out because it is lacking in the front man. Nothing in this case to do with shades of political opinion, just basic competence or the lack of it.
That was the only good bit. McDonnell was pathetic. He was backing rich Accountants and Barristers paying less NIC. Corbyn as usual was abysmal.
So, VVD + CDA + D66 (essentially a LD - Conservative coalition) looks inevitable, but it'll need someone else to get it over 75 seats?
The oldies? The Christians? The Calvinists? The Animal Lovers? The Environmentalists?
The Calvinists never go into government, though presumably they'd be more likely to vote Right than Left.
Interesting how many different types of parties can pop up inder PR. I wonder what we could have if we had PR.....a Methodist party maybe.
If we had pure PR like the Dutch, and treated the whole UK as single constituency, a party would only need to win 0.17% of the vote to get into Parliament.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
What's wrong with that ?
Precisely. Indeed, imagine we had such a representative parliament, and someone came along and suggested we create a new system to take the seats off all the small parties and hand majority power to a party with 36% of the vote mostly concentrated at one end of the country - everyone would think they were mad.
Hence all the clamour for non-PR in the Netherlands (not)!
I have been entirely unmoved by the mini shambles over NIC. The entire episode has merely exposed again what a tragic excuse for an opposition we have. Labour have out shambled the government.
Yvette Cooper's intervention was good. She showed the same ability to make a comment that cut through that stood out because it is lacking in the front man. Nothing in this case to do with shades of political opinion, just basic competence or the lack of it.
That was the only good bit. McDonnell was pathetic. He was backing rich Accountants and Barristers paying less NIC. Corbyn as usual was abysmal.
Euro fanatic FT headline is cut and pasted by Euro fanatics TSE and Scott P. Quelle surprise.
Always playing the man and not the ball.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Your post is a perfect example of playing the man not the ball, no?
So that's a no from you, you don't want to comment on The Telegraph front page.
Why am I not surprised.
Not seen the DT front page.
Both have been posted on this thread, but you only decided to focus on the FT.
Just seen the DT. It does not seem to conflate the NIC decision with Brexit unlike the FT. Do you see some sort of link?
I have been entirely unmoved by the mini shambles over NIC. The entire episode has merely exposed again what a tragic excuse for an opposition we have. Labour have out shambled the government.
Yvette Cooper's intervention was good. She showed the same ability to make a comment that cut through that stood out because it is lacking in the front man. Nothing in this case to do with shades of political opinion, just basic competence or the lack of it.
That was the only good bit. McDonnell was pathetic. He was backing rich Accountants and Barristers paying less NIC. Corbyn as usual was abysmal.
I didn't see or hear of Yvette. Any link/clip?
She wasn't that good, she just answered a bog standard question in a reasonably straightforward way. That people are commenting shows how low the bar has fallen within Labour.
Comments
Commentator's curse!
In our case a common criticism of the LibDems is that they are not for one or tuther and hence unreliable.
et cetera.
Might even be >10 but we'll see!!
Just glad I've booked tomorrow am off work - most of Europe voting on Sunday is just much more civilized than weekday elections!
Well done to everyone who got on the VVD most seats bet.
So, in addition to the current parties, the BNP, English Democrats, Socialist Labour Party, TUSC, Mebyon Kernow, Womens' Equality Party, NF, would probably have at least 1 MP, and there'd be a host of religious parties and special interest groups getting into Parliament.
Con 37.9% Lab 29.8% LD 9.4% UKIP 11.2% Grn 6.2%
You did this ComRes every month despite myself and ComRes telling you otherwise.
A very pleasant if unprofitable day at Prestbury Park
PtP and Cheltboy put in an appearance. Both on good form, in every sense. Both backed Labaik yesterday.
Monaco 3-1 Manchester City
Phil Neville - Former Manchester United defender on Radio 5 live
Posted at 21:22
It was Monaco's first attack of the second half. There is another goal in this game, I put my life on it.
Who did that graphic deserves to be locked in a disused fridge.
https://www.ft.com/content/c44350c6-f85f-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71
So Phil was not the only cabinet member having a bad day...
THAT is how you define a place with class...
Got some odd looks mind you working my way round.
Perhaps you'd like to give your take on the front page of that well known EU fanatic newspaper The Daily Telegraph in case you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are?
Why am I not surprised.
Should have gone to Specsavers.
Hence all the clamour for non-PR in the Netherlands (not)!
Renswoude:
CDA gain from VVD, VVD down 16 points....
CDA 22% VVD 21 SGP 21
Suggests CDA will regain quite a few districts they held in 2010 etc, esp in east of country.
Green on map but wasn't sure whether it would be CDA, D66, or Greens!!
Just another 384 to go