I agree with David Herdson for the reasons that he gave and also because even if the window of opportunity will remain open for some time courtesy of renewed mandates, there is no reason to believe that the referendum would be more winnable later.
In the words of Echo & The Bunnymen: nothing comes to those who wait.
An interesting take. As someone who the nats beat mentally long ago, considering the HolyRood situation and future results is something I tend to overlook. I don't know that the window of opportunity would have closed if she had not made a move now, but now is certainly a good time to make a move from their perspective.
Maybe I'm cynical about things, but is the Greens' backing really not guaranteed? They want this too, and have little to worry about losing should it blow up in their faces.
Short-term pain is justified by long-term gain. To the extent that short-term pain needs to be minimised, it’s a matter of the tactics and politics necessary to gain the support that will launch independence but otherwise only a secondary consideration.
One thing that annoyed about Sindy and Brexit was the side advocating change refusing to acknowledge any short term pain, even though as you point out its not that it won't happen, but that it is justified.
But scottish threads get my bile up, so good day all.
There is a secondary purpose behind the plans for a secondary Scottish referendum. It is to put the PM under pressure to obtain a "good" Brexit negotiated settlement, as there would be further implications for the U.K. This could include Irish reunification.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
Oh God, have we really got several years of Scotland crap coming down the road again? Last time was unbearable and the nasty screaming that passed for debate split families in half.
Please please Theresa, tell the jumped up little twerp to get back in her box - and put some serious money into campaigning in the Scottish locals on health, education and policing.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
Oh God, have we really got several years of Scotland crap coming down the road again? Last time was unbearable and the nasty screaming that passed for debate split families in half.
Please please Theresa, tell the jumped up little twerp to get back in her box - and put some serious money into campaigning in the Scottish locals on health, education and policing.
Feel free to self censor on this subject, I don't think anyone will be missing much.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
@ScottyNational: Sturgeon to May: 'At least I was elected', said the unopposed candidate who became First Minister without a public vote in 2014
That would work rather better if:
1) Nicola Sturgeon had made her argument on the basis of having been elected in the first place; and
2) She had not subsequently been re-elected.
As it is, her point seems entirely reasonable - a much higher proportion of Scots voted for the SNP in 2016 than for the Conservatives in 2015 and no one (not even the Conservative party membership) has yet had the opportunity to vote for any programme put forward by Theresa May.
Oh God, have we really got several years of Scotland crap coming down the road again? Last time was unbearable and the nasty screaming that passed for debate split families in half.
Please please Theresa, tell the jumped up little twerp to get back in her box - and put some serious money into campaigning in the Scottish locals on health, education and policing.
The site is www.politicalbetting.com, not www.politicalboring.com.
Constitutional chaos is surely the better option for opportunities & advertising revenue here rather than say the very very boring 2001-2005 period.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
He omits to consider Le Pen's promise to rule by plebiscite promises regarding referendums. She wants a referendum on changing the constitution, and she wants to enable a referendum whenever 500,000 people want one. Holding plebiscites is one of her most important policies. If implemented it will change the face of France. Say hello to the reign of the alt-droite.
Some sensible points in this article but it is high stakes for the SNP, lose again, even if by the narrowest of margins and as Quebec shows they may not get the chance again. 26 years after its second referendum on independence from Canada there has not been another
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
How much rent could they charge rUK for Faslane and other military assets.
Oh God, have we really got several years of Scotland crap coming down the road again? Last time was unbearable and the nasty screaming that passed for debate split families in half.
Please please Theresa, tell the jumped up little twerp to get back in her box - and put some serious money into campaigning in the Scottish locals on health, education and policing.
The site is www.politicalbetting.com, not www.politicalboring.com.
Constitutional chaos is surely the better option for opportunities & advertising revenue here rather than say the very very boring 2001-2005 period.
Ha. I didn't mean on here. Well not just on here anyway. The three years of "debate" leading up to the last referendum were downright nasty in Scotland and elsewhere, with friendships broken and families split. There was a reason everyone said it was once in a lifetime.
Recent Scotland polling suggests there's really no appetite for going through all that again, so the PM should push it as far into the future as possible, preferably until after the 2021 Scottish elections. In the meantime, the opposition parties north of the border need to be relentless in ignoring constitutional questions and hold the Scottish government to account for what they're doing in their areas of power.
I think Sindy Ref ought to be after 2 years after the triggering of Art 50. On this I do think the Tories have a point. But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
The euro convergence criteria include that they should treat their exchange rate policy "as a matter of common interest". If they keep the pound while they're waiting to join the euro, how can they actually have an exchange rate policy, given that they'll be using some other country's currency?
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank and don't issue any currency.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
How much rent could they charge rUK for Faslane and other military assets.
That would be hilarious. The SNP's raison d'être is getting rid of the nukes from Faslane.
I think Sindy Ref ought to be after 2 years after the triggering of Art 50. On this I do think the Tories have a point. But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
What would you like the outcome of Indy Ref II to be @Pulpstar ?
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
The euro convergence criteria include that they should treat their exchange rate policy "as a matter of common interest". If they keep the pound while they're waiting to join the euro, how can they actually have an exchange rate policy, given that they'll be using some other country's currency?
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank.
Scotland is in a bit of a particular situation with the currency. I think the EU would fudge on that particular issue (So long as they were comitted to Euro membership) as the situation is literally impossible for Scotland to fully fulfil immediately post UK breakup. But what they won't yield on is the 3% deficit issue, or at least a commitment and actions to Scotland getting its house in order on that front. They are welcoming bunch in general the EU, but they just want to avoid another Greece and not put more stress on the ECB as neccesary.
I think Sindy Ref ought to be after 2 years after the triggering of Art 50. On this I do think the Tories have a point. But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
Just in time for another clean sweep at the 2020 election, even if they lose the referendum itself.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
The euro convergence criteria include that they should treat their exchange rate policy "as a matter of common interest". If they keep the pound while they're waiting to join the euro, how can they actually have an exchange rate policy, given that they'll be using some other country's currency?
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank and don't issue any currency.
Presumably they'd do what Ireland did with the Punt, and have it start at 1:1 with Sterling (Scotland has all that existing paper money that makes it easy). All debts, bank accounts, etc., would be redenominated 1:1 into Scottish Pounds (or Groats). At some point in the future, they would enter the ERM with the Groat pegged at 1:1.15 to the Euro or somesuch.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
You can't imagine Maggie not contesting Richmond Park.
Mrs May is frit, this does not bode well for our Brexit deal.
I think Sindy Ref ought to be after 2 years after the triggering of Art 50. On this I do think the Tories have a point. But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
What would you like the outcome of Indy Ref II to be @Pulpstar ?
I think the Scots should vote for independence, but Sturgeon must do better than last time on matters of currency and provide a clear pathway for EU membership.
And public opinion would shift substantially in favour of independence if it became a fact on the ground whereas the current situation is just going to leave the nation divided forever.
So on balance I am for independence, though it is for the Scots to decide - not me.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
In the same way that Sweden is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro? It is a new member obliged to join too.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
How much rent could they charge rUK for Faslane and other military assets.
That would be hilarious. The SNP's raison d'être is getting rid of the nukes from Faslane.
Mon: Indy is the SNP's raison d'être Tues: Getting rid of nukes is the SNP's raison d'être Weds: Anti English racism is the SNP's raison d'être Thurs: Stoking up grievance is the SNP's raison d'être etc
I think Sindy Ref ought to be after 2 years after the triggering of Art 50. On this I do think the Tories have a point. But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
What would you like the outcome of Indy Ref II to be @Pulpstar ?
I think the Scots should vote for independence, but Sturgeon must do better than last time on matters of currency and provide a clear pathway for EU membership.
And public opinion would shift substantially in favour of independence if it became a fact on the ground whereas the current situation is just going to leave the nation divided forever.
So on balance I am for independence, though it is for the Scots to decide - not me.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
The euro convergence criteria include that they should treat their exchange rate policy "as a matter of common interest". If they keep the pound while they're waiting to join the euro, how can they actually have an exchange rate policy, given that they'll be using some other country's currency?
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank and don't issue any currency.
The only answer is for them to move to a McPoond, then to the Euro.
But who's going to lend money against the McPoond to finance the public spending deficit, and what happens when almost the entire Scottish financial services sector moves to London or Dublin?
"Opec has raised its 2017 estimates for oil production from outside of the cartel as US shale drillers ramp up activity in response to higher prices, underlining the threat to the group’s attempts to balance the market.
Non-Opec oil supply is now projected to grow by around 400,000 barrels a day this year to average 57.7m b/d, Opec said in said in its monthly market report. That marks a 300,000 b/d increase on its total forecast just one month ago and comes after a near 10 per cent drop in prices last week, as traders fret over shale’s potential to overwhelm the cartel’s own supply cuts."
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
How much rent could they charge rUK for Faslane and other military assets.
That would be hilarious. The SNP's raison d'être is getting rid of the nukes from Faslane.
Monday: Indy is the SNP's raison d'être Tuesday: Getting rid of nukes is the SNP's raison d'être Weds: anti English racism is the SNP's raison d'être Thurs: stoking up grievance is the SNP's raison d'être etc
What a lot of raisons.
Okay, let me put it this way. Getting rid of the nukes is a big part of their argument for why they think Scotland should go independent. It's possibly more important than "we didn't vote for this Tory government."
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
Scotland is going to be without a lender of last resort whilst it is temporarily outside both the EU and the UK. As a new member entrant to the EU, the Euro will be required - that is minor compared to getting the deficit to 3% in my eyes though. Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
How much rent could they charge rUK for Faslane and other military assets.
That would be hilarious. The SNP's raison d'être is getting rid of the nukes from Faslane.
Mon: Indy is the SNP's raison d'être Tues: Getting rid of nukes is the SNP's raison d'être Weds: Anti English racism is the SNP's raison d'être Thurs: Stoking up grievance is the SNP's raison d'être etc
What a lot of raisons.
The SNP make raisons from gripes, and gripes can be fermented into whines.
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Yes yes but what about my 3% question ?
Wut?
How will Scotland meet the 3% deficit target that sure as eggs is eggs the EU will require for membership.
Why would the EU require it for membership of the EU? As opposed to eventual Euro membership.
People confuse the Copenhagen criteria with the Euro convergence criteria. Scotland would trivially meet the former, while struggling with the latter. How to handle the interregnum between leaving the UK and joining the Euro, that's the exam question imo.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
"Opec has raised its 2017 estimates for oil production from outside of the cartel as US shale drillers ramp up activity in response to higher prices, underlining the threat to the group’s attempts to balance the market.
Non-Opec oil supply is now projected to grow by around 400,000 barrels a day this year to average 57.7m b/d, Opec said in said in its monthly market report. That marks a 300,000 b/d increase on its total forecast just one month ago and comes after a near 10 per cent drop in prices last week, as traders fret over shale’s potential to overwhelm the cartel’s own supply cuts."
Yep, the OPEC countries are shitting themselves - they're no longer the monopoly they once were, and they're no longer in control of worldwide supply and price.
GCC countries are pushing ahead with plan to introduce VAT next year.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
The euro convergence criteria include that they should treat their exchange rate policy "as a matter of common interest". If they keep the pound while they're waiting to join the euro, how can they actually have an exchange rate policy, given that they'll be using some other country's currency?
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank and don't issue any currency.
Presumably they'd do what Ireland did with the Punt, and have it start at 1:1 with Sterling (Scotland has all that existing paper money that makes it easy). All debts, bank accounts, etc., would be redenominated 1:1 into Scottish Pounds (or Groats). At some point in the future, they would enter the ERM with the Groat pegged at 1:1.15 to the Euro or somesuch.
Time to bring this back - note the exchange rate...
One of the very best arguments I have heard for Scottish independence is that advanced by @Pulpstar: that to resist independence again will just leave Scotland forever divided. If, on the other hand, it votes for independence, public opinion will doubtless shift firmly and swiftly towards it maintaining its independence. I suspect (but don't know) that is what happened in Ireland.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
As editor of PB's style guide, it is Joxit and NOT Scexit.
One of the very best arguments I have heard for Scottish independence is that advanced by @Pulpstar: that to resist independence again will just leave Scotland forever divided. If, on the other hand, it votes for independence, public opinion will doubtless shift firmly and swiftly towards it maintaining its independence. I suspect (but don't know) that is what happened in Ireland.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
Sure. But the narrative that the SNP will be able to play will be "this was caused by Brexit, if we just quit the union and rejoin the EU all will be fine."
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
As editor of PB's style guide, it is Joxit and NOT Scexit.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
You can't imagine Maggie not contesting Richmond Park.
Mrs May is frit, this does not bode well for our Brexit deal.
She sacked Hezza and her whips seem much more effect than the Poshos'.
She's going to face down Sturgeon too, by the sounds of it.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
I have taken it too. I wondered into Ladbrokes on my lunch break and wasn't paying attention so got a bloody awful price (22). I hope it is good karma and he comes in for us @Mortimer !
"Opec has raised its 2017 estimates for oil production from outside of the cartel as US shale drillers ramp up activity in response to higher prices, underlining the threat to the group’s attempts to balance the market.
Non-Opec oil supply is now projected to grow by around 400,000 barrels a day this year to average 57.7m b/d, Opec said in said in its monthly market report. That marks a 300,000 b/d increase on its total forecast just one month ago and comes after a near 10 per cent drop in prices last week, as traders fret over shale’s potential to overwhelm the cartel’s own supply cuts."
Yep, the OPEC countries are shitting themselves - they're no longer the monopoly they once were, and they're no longer in control of worldwide supply and price.
GCC countries are pushing ahead with plan to introduce VAT next year.
I would point out that I wrote an excellent piece, called Gushing, Oklahoma a few years back (and which was republished by Platt's) predicting almost exactly what has happened.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
As editor of PB's style guide, it is Joxit and Scexit.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
I thought you didn't believe in that sort of thing? What is it you usually say? "Economic expansions don't die of old age."
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
I thought you didn't believe in that sort of thing? What is it you usually say? "Economic expansions don't die of old age."
In our case our expansion is likely to end because our savings rate will have to rise to close our current account deficit.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
On that logic why did UKIP flop in Stoke Central?
Because Ukip are utterly shite at winning parliamentary elections?
Yeah, like 27 other countries and the EU high command are going to be silent as Trappists in the intervening period.
I'm not sure what's more disturbing, the idea that our government is that stupid or the idea that they think we're that stupid.
The problem is not going to be Trappist silence, but the exact opposite. During the entire negotiation period there will be a plethora of contradictory statements, opinions, kite-flying attempts, ignorant nonsense, negotiating positions, and messages aimed at domestic audiences, all written up in lurid terms by journalists trying to big-up a story or push some political objective. Trying to figure out what is really going on amongst all that noise is going to be impossible.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
As editor of PB's style guide, it is Joxit and NOT Scexit.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
On that logic why did UKIP flop in Stoke Central?
Because they're useless
But His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall GCMG, DSO, MC, VC is a brilliant leader and candidate.
One of the very best arguments I have heard for Scottish independence is that advanced by @Pulpstar: that to resist independence again will just leave Scotland forever divided. If, on the other hand, it votes for independence, public opinion will doubtless shift firmly and swiftly towards it maintaining its independence. I suspect (but don't know) that is what happened in Ireland.
What happened in Ireland was a vicious civil war.
Which is still being fought, although nowadays electorally.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
Sure. But the narrative that the SNP will be able to play will be "this was caused by Brexit, if we just quit the union and rejoin the EU all will be fine."
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
The SNP will also have to argue for returning to unlimited migration from Eastern Europe and keeping the same contributions to the EU too
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
On that logic why did UKIP flop in Stoke Central?
Cos their candidate was Nutt all he was cracked up to be?
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
As editor of PB's style guide, it is Joxit and NOT Scexit.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
On that logic why did UKIP flop in Stoke Central?
Because they're useless
But Huffy D thinks they'll sweep to victory if May doesn't ask for a job offer requirement for EU citizens...
'It isn’t even certain now that Sturgeon will be able to call a referendum: the SNP doesn’t have a majority in Holyrood and while the Greens might well support IndyRef2, or at least abstain (which would be good enough for the SNP), their compliance can’t be taken for granted.'
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Fair point. I hadn't seen that. The Greens' previous position was that they'd only support a second vote if there was a demonstrable demand for one, which is at best still only an arguable case.
@NicolaSturgeon: In addition, I was elected as FM on a clear manifesto commitment re #scotref. The PM is not yet elected by anyone.
The voters of Maidenhead and Copeland may beg to differ
No, they elect an MP.
May has as much legitimacy as any other PM in British history. She commands a majority in the HoC and that is all any PM ever has as a mandate.
Agreed, as much legitimacy as Gordon Brown.
Did Brown ever gain a seat in a parliamentary by election?
Technically yes: he gained Glasgow North East from Speaker in 2009
A Speaker who was originally elected on a Labour ticket
Piddling small change. Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
And while Tories harp on about Copeland they ignore losing Richmond Park where for internal reasons they failed to put up candidate to defend 23k majority.
Over 400 seats voted Leave like Copeland, only around 200 voted Remain like Richmond Park, in pure terms of parliamentary arithmetic if I was May I know which I would rather be winning! (Plus of course the Tories held Remain voting Witney last year anyway)
On that logic why did UKIP flop in Stoke Central?
As the Tories have stolen most of their clothes and the Tory voteshare rose in Stoke
Yeah, like 27 other countries and the EU high command are going to be silent as Trappists in the intervening period.
I'm not sure what's more disturbing, the idea that our government is that stupid or the idea that they think we're that stupid.
The problem is not going to be Trappist silence, but the exact opposite. During the entire negotiation period there will be a plethora of contradictory statements, opinions, kite-flying attempts, ignorant nonsense, negotiating positions, and messages aimed at domestic audiences, all written up in lurid terms by journalists trying to big-up a story or push some political objective. Trying to figure out what is really going on amongst all that noise is going to be impossible.
That I have more sympathy with.
Why, only this week I've heard that Article 50 was definitely going to be triggered yesterday or today, it was 50/50 that it would be triggered yesterday or today, that it was never going to be triggered yesterday or today and that it is definitely going to be triggered at the end of the month and not before.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
Sure. But the narrative that the SNP will be able to play will be "this was caused by Brexit, if we just quit the union and rejoin the EU all will be fine."
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
The SNP will also have to argue for returning to unlimited migration from Eastern Europe and keeping the same contributions to the EU too
Because Scotland is relatively poor, its net contribution will likely be very modest I would have thought.
"Opec has raised its 2017 estimates for oil production from outside of the cartel as US shale drillers ramp up activity in response to higher prices, underlining the threat to the group’s attempts to balance the market.
Non-Opec oil supply is now projected to grow by around 400,000 barrels a day this year to average 57.7m b/d, Opec said in said in its monthly market report. That marks a 300,000 b/d increase on its total forecast just one month ago and comes after a near 10 per cent drop in prices last week, as traders fret over shale’s potential to overwhelm the cartel’s own supply cuts."
Yep, the OPEC countries are shitting themselves - they're no longer the monopoly they once were, and they're no longer in control of worldwide supply and price.
GCC countries are pushing ahead with plan to introduce VAT next year.
I would point out that I wrote an excellent piece, called Gushing, Oklahoma a few years back (and which was republished by Platt's) predicting almost exactly what has happened.
Is it online anywhere? I'm usually good with Google but can't find it.
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
Sure. But the narrative that the SNP will be able to play will be "this was caused by Brexit, if we just quit the union and rejoin the EU all will be fine."
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
The SNP will also have to argue for returning to unlimited migration from Eastern Europe and keeping the same contributions to the EU too
Because Scotland is relatively poor, its net contribution will likely be very modest I would have thought.
Though it will take up more of the declining oil revenues they will have to survive on
As an aside, the advantage the Scots have this time around is that the UK is due a recession, and that recession - irrespective of its ultimate causes - will likely be blamed on Brexit.
Which will be magnified many terms for Scots by Scexit
Sure. But the narrative that the SNP will be able to play will be "this was caused by Brexit, if we just quit the union and rejoin the EU all will be fine."
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
The SNP will also have to argue for returning to unlimited migration from Eastern Europe and keeping the same contributions to the EU too
Because Scotland is relatively poor
That's not the SNP line......
Last time it was looked at:
It is difficult to estimate Scottish contributions to the EU budget, but let us see how much it will contribute based on the assumptions made by the pro-independence campaign. Assume that Scotland will keep the rebate (which is unlikely), and that it will contribute the same amount as it did when it was part of the UK (although this is also unlikely). Scotland is expected to pay the EU £3.3bn over seven years from 2014-2020 if it remains in the UK. That’s around £160m per year after the rebate, which, using the 2011 figures, places Scotland 25th in terms of contributions, behind comparatively undeveloped new entrants, such as Romania and Bulgaria (the latter has population comparable to that of Scotland). Thus, if the pro-independence campaigners do not budge, Scotland’s contributions would not be tempting for the EU.
Comments
In the words of Echo & The Bunnymen: nothing comes to those who wait.
Maybe I'm cynical about things, but is the Greens' backing really not guaranteed? They want this too, and have little to worry about losing should it blow up in their faces.
Short-term pain is justified by long-term gain. To the extent that short-term pain needs to be minimised, it’s a matter of the tactics and politics necessary to gain the support that will launch independence but otherwise only a secondary consideration.
One thing that annoyed about Sindy and Brexit was the side advocating change refusing to acknowledge any short term pain, even though as you point out its not that it won't happen, but that it is justified.
But scottish threads get my bile up, so good day all.
https://twitter.com/scotgp/status/841266977243029505
I would be HUGELY surprised if there hadn't been consultations with Patrick Harvie beforehand.
Please please Theresa, tell the jumped up little twerp to get back in her box - and put some serious money into campaigning in the Scottish locals on health, education and policing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/14/someones-gone-full-donald-trump-nicola-sturgeon-ruth-davidson/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
1) Nicola Sturgeon had made her argument on the basis of having been elected in the first place; and
2) She had not subsequently been re-elected.
As it is, her point seems entirely reasonable - a much higher proportion of Scots voted for the SNP in 2016 than for the Conservatives in 2015 and no one (not even the Conservative party membership) has yet had the opportunity to vote for any programme put forward by Theresa May.
Constitutional chaos is surely the better option for opportunities & advertising revenue here rather than say the very very boring 2001-2005 period.
He omits to consider Le Pen's promise to rule by plebiscite promises regarding referendums. She wants a referendum on changing the constitution, and she wants to enable a referendum whenever 500,000 people want one. Holding plebiscites is one of her most important policies. If implemented it will change the face of France. Say hello to the reign of the alt-droite.
Democracy in action...
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/841638274665963521
https://twitter.com/gdnpolitics/status/841616165122187266
Anyway I'm giving the Nats the benefit of the doubt regarding the currency but the EU can not, it will not change the deficit rules for a new country. At the very least they will want to see tax rises and/or spending cuts.
My question is, where are these coming from.
If the SNP win the referendum, and Scotland applies for EU membership suddenly everyone will be asking the same question. I'm just getting about 3 years ahead of the curve here.
Scotland is DEFINITELY heading into the Euro if it becomes independent, the Nats just need to be honest about this one.
I'm not sure what's more disturbing, the idea that our government is that stupid or the idea that they think we're that stupid.
Recent Scotland polling suggests there's really no appetite for going through all that again, so the PM should push it as far into the future as possible, preferably until after the 2021 Scottish elections. In the meantime, the opposition parties north of the border need to be relentless in ignoring constitutional questions and hold the Scottish government to account for what they're doing in their areas of power.
But if we're not out the EU by then, tough (For the Tories and the uncertainty narrative). Autumn 2019 looks a good time to me for Indy Ref II.
They would also have "to pursue price stability as the primary objective of monetary policy", which is a bit difficult if you haven't got a central bank and don't issue any currency.
Both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have (so far) never won a General Election.
But what they won't yield on is the 3% deficit issue, or at least a commitment and actions to Scotland getting its house in order on that front. They are welcoming bunch in general the EU, but they just want to avoid another Greece and not put more stress on the ECB as neccesary.
Mrs May is frit, this does not bode well for our Brexit deal.
And public opinion would shift substantially in favour of independence if it became a fact on the ground whereas the current situation is just going to leave the nation divided forever.
So on balance I am for independence, though it is for the Scots to decide - not me.
And we’re really missing MalcG’s carefully thought out contributions.
Tues: Getting rid of nukes is the SNP's raison d'être
Weds: Anti English racism is the SNP's raison d'être
Thurs: Stoking up grievance is the SNP's raison d'être
etc
What a lot of raisons.
But who's going to lend money against the McPoond to finance the public spending deficit, and what happens when almost the entire Scottish financial services sector moves to London or Dublin?
"Opec has raised its 2017 estimates for oil production from outside of the cartel as US shale drillers ramp up activity in response to higher prices, underlining the threat to the group’s attempts to balance the market.
Non-Opec oil supply is now projected to grow by around 400,000 barrels a day this year to average 57.7m b/d, Opec said in said in its monthly market report. That marks a 300,000 b/d increase on its total forecast just one month ago and comes after a near 10 per cent drop in prices last week, as traders fret over shale’s potential to overwhelm the cartel’s own supply cuts."
Now she can't get the major plank of her Budget passed, and part of her country is closer to secession than ever before.
GCC countries are pushing ahead with plan to introduce VAT next year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Scots
The fact that the recession will actually be the result of (a) the cyclical nature of economies generally, and (b) the UK's particular vulnerability given its quadruple deficits, is by-the-by.
People, as Donald Trump has just proven, love simple narratives.
She's going to face down Sturgeon too, by the sounds of it.
Balls to frit.
Why, only this week I've heard that Article 50 was definitely going to be triggered yesterday or today, it was 50/50 that it would be triggered yesterday or today, that it was never going to be triggered yesterday or today and that it is definitely going to be triggered at the end of the month and not before.
And that's just from British government sources.
Last time it was looked at:
It is difficult to estimate Scottish contributions to the EU budget, but let us see how much it will contribute based on the assumptions made by the pro-independence campaign. Assume that Scotland will keep the rebate (which is unlikely), and that it will contribute the same amount as it did when it was part of the UK (although this is also unlikely). Scotland is expected to pay the EU £3.3bn over seven years from 2014-2020 if it remains in the UK. That’s around £160m per year after the rebate, which, using the 2011 figures, places Scotland 25th in terms of contributions, behind comparatively undeveloped new entrants, such as Romania and Bulgaria (the latter has population comparable to that of Scotland). Thus, if the pro-independence campaigners do not budge, Scotland’s contributions would not be tempting for the EU.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scotland-and-the-eu-terms-and-conditions/