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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Opinium: Most of those polled say 2nd Scottish IndyRef ‘not ju

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  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    She will not need to. She will be swept away in a Scottish Tory surge ;)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
  • Options
    ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,507
    edited March 2017
    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    Thought as much. She always looked wrecked on PM's questions.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Cyan said:

    The Scottish Greens could bring down the Sturgeon government if they wanted to, because Con + Lab + Greens + LibDems have a majority. But that would be doing something useful.

    Why would a party that supports independence bring down a pro - independence government?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Dr. Foxinsox, as an introvert, I don't blame you personally for the shyness example but it does irk me that so often the introverted are seen as wrong whereas extroversion is seen as positive.

    I do agree, however, that certain feelings/behaviours can be on a spectrum from normal to concerning.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    Well if you do insist on hanging around with SNP MPs...

    Amusingly Jacob Rees Mogg is her mate.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited March 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    I believe she did once work in a chip shop, if that counts as a 'real job'
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    I believe she did once work in a fish and chip shop, if that counts as a 'real job'
    Perhaps you could elucidate on why working in a fish & shop might not count as a 'real job'?
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Scotland would be out of the EU single market, out of the UK single market and face possible trade barriers with both and a hard border with England. With sterling as its currency it would have no lender of last resort, fatal to its financial services industry. It would lack the reserves to float its own putative currency, which would in any event be a hugely volatile petrocurrency. In the circumstances it would be ineligible to join the EU.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    I believe she did once work in a fish and chip shop, if that counts as a 'real job'
    Perhaps you could elucidate on why working in a fish & shop might not count as a 'real job'?
    I never said it didn't
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Oh dear. The Republicans in France have tweeted a cartoon featuring Macron. I'm not sure whether it would be acceptable to post it here, but it can be viewed at this website.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Cyan said:

    The Scottish Greens could bring down the Sturgeon government if they wanted to, because Con + Lab + Greens + LibDems have a majority. But that would be doing something useful.

    Why would a party that supports independence bring down a pro - independence government?
    Because there are other issues than independence.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    Cyan said:

    Oh dear. The Republicans in France have tweeted a cartoon featuring Macron. I'm not sure whether it would be acceptable to post it here, but it can be viewed at this website.

    Fillon to be fair to him condemned it pretty swiftly
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    calum said:

    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274

    The clown was only in the shadow cabinet because he was the only Scottish MP, a talentles numpty.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Cyan said:

    Oh dear. The Republicans in France have tweeted a cartoon featuring Macron. I'm not sure whether it would be acceptable to post it here, but it can be viewed at this website.

    Mon dieu!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    The Scottish Greens could bring down the Sturgeon government if they wanted to, because Con + Lab + Greens + LibDems have a majority. But that would be doing something useful.

    Why would a party that supports independence bring down a pro - independence government?
    Because there are other issues than independence.
    Dentistry on Lewis & Harris, for one.

    What do you want?

    Permanent fillings.

    When do you want them?

    Now!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    PeterC said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Scotland would be out of the EU single market, out of the UK single market and face possible trade barriers with both and a hard border with England. With sterling as its currency it would have no lender of last resort, fatal to its financial services industry. It would lack the reserves to float its own putative currency, which would in any event be a hugely volatile petrocurrency. In the circumstances it would be ineligible to join the EU.
    Cuckoo Cuckoo
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,313
    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    The Scottish Greens could bring down the Sturgeon government if they wanted to, because Con + Lab + Greens + LibDems have a majority. But that would be doing something useful.

    Why would a party that supports independence bring down a pro - independence government?
    Because there are other issues than independence.
    Which is why the Scottish Greens aren't in coalition with the SNP and can thereby oppose policies they don't like.

    Do you really think they would prefer to see a Tory led government in Holyrood?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    I believe she did once work in a fish and chip shop, if that counts as a 'real job'
    Perhaps you could elucidate on why working in a fish & shop might not count as a 'real job'?
    TUD, you forget it is the elite on here , nothing les than Michelin stars or it is just beneath them
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. G, not everyone here's the elite...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
    Ian you are being very polite to the cretin by considering he has enough mind to be narrow.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    Mr. G, not everyone here's the elite...

    MD I was being a bit broad brushed , I know there are decent people on here as well , but there are some real lowlifes. You wre absolutely not included with the lowlifes.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    The Scottish Greens could bring down the Sturgeon government if they wanted to, because Con + Lab + Greens + LibDems have a majority. But that would be doing something useful.

    Why would a party that supports independence bring down a pro - independence government?
    Because there are other issues than independence.
    Which is why the Scottish Greens aren't in coalition with the SNP and can thereby oppose policies they don't like.

    Do you really think they would prefer to see a Tory led government in Holyrood?
    Sandy it is just a troll, not really worth having a sensible discussion with it.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. G, of course :p

    That said, I'd add that being well-to-do doesn't make one wicked. Unless, of course, they haven't bought any of my books. That's a sure sign of a depraved fellow.

    [As an aside, a Chinese-flavoured serial I've been working on might be ready in the next few weeks. Very close to finishing the first draft, although it's going to be a bit shorter than I'd imagined].
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    'Our money'. Given the Gers figures cited above, I assume you're claiming for Scotland a monopoly right to all a British taxpayers' money, then? First I've heard of it...
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Mr. G, not everyone here's the elite...


    How do we qualify to be one of the 'elite' ?

    Does correct punctuation and grammar help?
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
    Ian you are being very polite to the cretin by considering he has enough mind to be narrow.
    Thanks Malc, always nice to get one of your insults. Also, I'm not narrow-minded - I'm all for people with a broad range of experiences in Parliament, but Hairy Back doesn't have real life experience and is ill-mannered to boot.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    malcolmg said:

    calum said:

    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274

    The clown was only in the shadow cabinet because he was the only Scottish MP, a talentles numpty.
    He's anything but a numpty and unlike the rest of the human detritus that surrounds Corbyn he's also courageous enough to say what he thinks.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
    Ian you are being very polite to the cretin by considering he has enough mind to be narrow.
    Thanks Malc, always nice to get one of your insults. Also, I'm not narrow-minded - I'm all for people with a broad range of experiences in Parliament, but Hairy Back doesn't have real life experience and is ill-mannered to boot.
    I don't really have a problem with her, she's committed to her cause.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Evershed, not having a go at those who are doing well for themselves, just saying not everyone who frequents the site is.

    Obviously, when it comes to grammar and spelling I'm in the elite :)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:

    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274

    The clown was only in the shadow cabinet because he was the only Scottish MP, a talentles numpty.
    He's anything but a numpty and unlike the rest of the human detritus that surrounds Corbyn he's also courageous enough to say what he thinks.
    I think your suggestion that he might be having second thoughts on the Union may have been a little premature.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    Mr. G, not everyone here's the elite...


    How do we qualify to be one of the 'elite' ?

    Does correct punctuation and grammar help?
    Distaste for AV and Brown Loafers is the long and short of it...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    'Our money'. Given the Gers figures cited above, I assume you're claiming for Scotland a monopoly right to all a British taxpayers' money, then? First I've heard of it...
    No I want fairness for Scotland and making our own decisions, not having to pay London's bills and loans.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    "It is the personal elements – it is a pain to come up and down every week and you are working with a number of people you find quite troubling." This is a rare occasion where it is fair to point out that an MP has never had a real job: having to travel from home to work, and finding yourself interacting with some pretty iffy people when you get there, is par for the course. And the pay and perks are pretty good for a 20 year old Glaswegian.
    I believe she did once work in a fish and chip shop, if that counts as a 'real job'
    Perhaps you could elucidate on why working in a fish & shop might not count as a 'real job'?
    TUD, you forget it is the elite on here , nothing les than Michelin stars or it is just beneath them
    An elite that is generously concerned about the poor, disenfranchised WWC Brexit voters though. Just imagine the whining prolapses they'd have had if someone had sneered at the sturdy, non-racist, fish & chip serving UKIP voters of Hartlepool?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:

    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274

    The clown was only in the shadow cabinet because he was the only Scottish MP, a talentles numpty.
    He's anything but a numpty and unlike the rest of the human detritus that surrounds Corbyn he's also courageous enough to say what he thinks.
    Roger , we know you are biased, he may be a nice relative to you but as a Scottish politician he is a numpty and is not doing anything to help Scotland.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
    Ian you are being very polite to the cretin by considering he has enough mind to be narrow.
    Thanks Malc, always nice to get one of your insults. Also, I'm not narrow-minded - I'm all for people with a broad range of experiences in Parliament, but Hairy Back doesn't have real life experience and is ill-mannered to boot.
    I don't really have a problem with her, she's committed to her cause.
    Most SNP MPs manage to be nicer than her about it though.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:

    I think Ian Murray's tweet in response to Corbyn shows that the "Better Together 2018 Campaign" is going to be a disaster this time around. The responses to Murray are pretty enlightening - with George Galloway calling for Scotland's only remaining MP to be suspended from the party for being disloyal to the great leader. I'm starting to feel sorry for Kezia and Ruth !!

    https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/840604117806518274

    The clown was only in the shadow cabinet because he was the only Scottish MP, a talentles numpty.
    He's anything but a numpty and unlike the rest of the human detritus that surrounds Corbyn he's also courageous enough to say what he thinks.
    I think your suggestion that he might be having second thoughts on the Union may have been a little premature.
    Yes it was but that's the conundrum Scottish Remainers who don't believe in nationalism have. It doesn't affect Corbyn because he doesn't know what he's doing. Really.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Britain’s youngest MP Mhairi Black 'hates' Parliament and says she might stand down at the next election

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/britains-youngest-mp-mhairi-black-hates-parliament-says-might/

    What a loss that wouldn't be.
    Disappointingly narrow minded. There is no shortage of weird middle-aged men in there; one of those going wouldn't be a loss.
    Ian you are being very polite to the cretin by considering he has enough mind to be narrow.
    Thanks Malc, always nice to get one of your insults. Also, I'm not narrow-minded - I'm all for people with a broad range of experiences in Parliament, but Hairy Back doesn't have real life experience and is ill-mannered to boot.
    She is exceedingly clever though, much more so than most in the place. Given the place is full of numpties I can imagine I would find it hard to be civil with many of them.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    The drain from Westminster of weird middle-aged men must be stemmed!
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:



    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.

    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    'Our money'. Given the Gers figures cited above, I assume you're claiming for Scotland a monopoly right to all a British taxpayers' money, then? First I've heard of it...
    No I want fairness for Scotland and making our own decisions, not having to pay London's bills and loans.
    Does that include decisions on farming, fisheries, international trade, employment and environmental law...?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    Mr. G, not everyone here's the elite...


    How do we qualify to be one of the 'elite' ?

    Does correct punctuation and grammar help?
    It is not compulsory but is an asset.
  • Options
    Does anyone know the timetable tomorrow in the HOC and HOL's
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    e in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    'Our money'. Given the Gers figures cited above, I assume you're claiming for Scotland a monopoly right to all a British taxpayers' money, then? First I've heard of it...
    No I want fairness for Scotland and making our own decisions, not having to pay London's bills and loans.
    I don't really know why you try to make the case for Indy based on your weakest suit - Scottish public expenditure relative to public income.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Does anyone know the timetable tomorrow in the HOC and HOL's

    Mid-afternoon in the Commons, I think:

    http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/Commons/All/2017/3/13/Daily
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited March 2017
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Does anyone know the timetable tomorrow in the HOC and HOL's

    Mid-afternoon in the Commons, I think:

    http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/Commons/All/2017/3/13/Daily
    Thanks for that - historic day beckons tomorrow
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,193
    isam said:
    She's a great loss to our democracy. Not.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Foxinsox, as an introvert, I don't blame you personally for the shyness example but it does irk me that so often the introverted are seen as wrong whereas extroversion is seen as positive.

    I do agree, however, that certain feelings/behaviours can be on a spectrum from normal to concerning.

    I too score highly on introversion scales, indeed internet message boards often are good places to meet other introverts*. I was thinking more of pathological shyness that blends into social phobia and agorophobia.

    *introverts often enjoy reading, and also like conversations that do not proceded too quickly, and can be prepared and edited before publication. Indeed I have worked on interview panels where we give the candidates the questions in advance, get them to write their answers, then go over them at a face to face interview. We have appointed lots of good people this way, while conventional interviews favour extroverts who can work on the fly. Important for some jobs but not others.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    Oh dear. The Republicans in France have tweeted a cartoon featuring Macron. I'm not sure whether it would be acceptable to post it here, but it can be viewed at this website.

    Fillon to be fair to him condemned it pretty swiftly
    Took him 24 hours, as the link notes.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    edited March 2017
    isam said:

    This was funny

    ttps://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/840925995909677056

    Aarrrgggghhhhhh!!! That woman should come with a mandatory trigger warning. To think I once spent a week of my life knocking doors and dropping leaflets for her, only for her to decide she couldn't be bothered a couple of years later.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nick Palmer FPT


    I locked myself out the other day and had a locksmith round. He openly offered me the choice of paying more with VAT or less without paperwork. I frowned and said curtly "The legal option with proper paperwork" and left it at that. Was he committing an offence by making the unsolicitied offer (there was a witness - a family friend)? Would HMRC prosecute on that basis? (And is it wise to make an enemy of a local locksmith?)



    The divide between politicians and normal people, Exhibit A

    Lol - FWIW my non-political friend was more shocked by the offer than I was. It's one of those things where people tend to do what friends do and assume that evertyone else is the same.

    I do remember a poll on whether people would agree to payment in cash to evade tax - there was a fairly even split. But what people say and actually do may be two different things. Is there any hard data on it?
    I guess I fulfil your hypothesis as I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't just pay them cash
    Lots of people would agree. But if you help other people illegally pay less tax than they should => you end up paying more tax youself (current estimate is £769 per family*) AND conspire to commit a criminal offence. It's short-sighted, and undermines any indignation you might feel about people who commit other crimes.

    *http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/prosecuting_tax_evasion/
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    e in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    Um. I thought the latest GERs figures for 2014-15 showed Total Revenue of £53Bn and Total Public Expenditure of £68Bn - a £15Bn defecit = 28% of revenue, or about 10% of Scottish GDP. I looked through the GERs numbers - where are the westmonster vanity projects? This is a genuine question: I really want to understand how we can get the Scottish economy in line with the EU 3% defecit requirement without doubling income tax and corporation tax, or cutting social spending in half. Assuming we'll be in the EU of course.
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    'Our money'. Given the Gers figures cited above, I assume you're claiming for Scotland a monopoly right to all a British taxpayers' money, then? First I've heard of it...
    No I want fairness for Scotland and making our own decisions, not having to pay London's bills and loans.
    I don't really know why you try to make the case for Indy based on your weakest suit - Scottish public expenditure relative to public income.
    There is only one reason , country's should make their own decisions. Giving all your money to a much bigger neighbour can only result in one thing , as we see we get rogered regularly at teh whim of Westminster. If you wish to start sending me your salary I will be happy to plan your spending for you, I promise it will be great I hav ebroad shoulders to do all that pooling and sharing.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
    Like Gordon without the charm...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    It will never be triggered at SNP conference, they are not stupid Tories or labourites. It is a government matter not a party matter.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
    Like Gordon without the charm...
    Obama Beach :lol:
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
    Her sacking of Osborne was certainly decisive... :smiley:
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Vincenzo Scarpetta‏ @LondonerVince 8h8 hours ago

    Berlusconi has unveiled a revamped election manifesto including a 'parallel currency' (new lira alongside €). Big.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
    Her sacking of Osborne was certainly decisive... :smiley:
    She is not all bad Rob, she sorted that little creep out big time.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    WRT Northern Ireland, a further issue is that even if local politicians can settle their differences, Sinn Fein wish to conduct a witch hunt against ex-servicemen, which most Conservatives are opposed to.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    .
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
    [Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "Edinburgh Tram"]
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    chestnut said:

    Vincenzo Scarpetta‏ @LondonerVince 8h8 hours ago

    Berlusconi has unveiled a revamped election manifesto including a 'parallel currency' (new lira alongside €). Big.

    Forza Italia has been languishing in the polls, and is down at 12%. It will be interesting to see if this reinvigorates them.

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    edited March 2017

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    .
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
    [Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "Edinburgh Tram"]
    That was a labour council project and their Tory pals
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,193
    chestnut said:

    Vincenzo Scarpetta‏ @LondonerVince 8h8 hours ago

    Berlusconi has unveiled a revamped election manifesto including a 'parallel currency' (new lira alongside €). Big.

    The mark of a single currency is not only that all other currencies must be extinguished but that the capacity of other institutions to issue currencies must also be extinguished

    N. Tebbit, 30 October 1990
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    It will never be triggered at SNP conference, they are not stupid Tories or labourites. It is a government matter not a party matter.
    The SNP can't tell the difference between party, government and country.
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa Maybe by name...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    Betting post. Given Kane's injury today, Lukaku as top scorer looks value at 3.2 to 1 on odds checker. He is already level with Kane on 19, and it is feared Kane may miss up to 5 games. Everton have only 10 games to play, but are top scorers and best record in 2017. Lukaku will play every minute of every game if fit, as there is nothing to rest him for. He is also bang in form and rarely injured.
    DYOR
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    The difference between the SNP and Ukip, of course, is that the SNP will own independence. If Brexit goes tits up (I don't think it will, by the way), it will be the Tories and May who own it. Make no mistake, the morning after a Yes vote in Scotland will see the SNP have to take full ownership of what follows.
    It doesn't matter.

    Scotland would be independent, the deed done. Whether the SNP exists as a single party is a trifle, no Unionist party could either take power back or reverse it. It would be like Brexit.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    .
    Another one that has no clue, Trident , London infrastructure , unlimited borrowing , grandstanding , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
    [Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "Edinburgh Tram"]
    That was a labour council project and their Tory pals
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Tram_Inquiry
  • Options
    Evening everyone. Enjoying the Twitter punch up between between ex of this parish Louise Mensch and Andrew Neil.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Vincenzo Scarpetta‏ @LondonerVince 8h8 hours ago

    Berlusconi has unveiled a revamped election manifesto including a 'parallel currency' (new lira alongside €). Big.

    Forza Italia has been languishing in the polls, and is down at 12%. It will be interesting to see if this reinvigorates them.

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.
    They do. As one of the biggest victims of the incompetence with which the Euro was introduced there really need to be sensible Italian voices explaining how this cannot go on. An economy still smaller than it was in 2008 is a terrible price to pay.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa Maybe by name...
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/752644694140719104
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    .
    , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
    [Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "Edinburgh Tram"]
    That was a labour council project and their Tory pals
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Tram_Inquiry
    Your point is ? It was handled by a council subsidiary and was a disaster, nothing to do with government. It happened because Tories and Labour hated the SNP and the fact that they had beaten them.
    At the end of the day it is still a fraction of what they will spend fixing the Palace in London , Houses of Parliament , Crossrail , MI5 HQ , HMRC IT project ...........................ad infinitum
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nick Palmer FPT


    I locked myself out the other day and had a locksmith round. He openly offered me the choice of paying more with VAT or less without paperwork. I frowned and said curtly "The legal option with proper paperwork" and left it at that. Was he committing an offence by making the unsolicitied offer (there was a witness - a family friend)? Would HMRC prosecute on that basis? (And is it wise to make an enemy of a local locksmith?)



    The divide between politicians and normal people, Exhibit A

    Lol - FWIW my non-political friend was more shocked by the offer than I was. It's one of those things where people tend to do what friends do and assume that evertyone else is the same.

    I do remember a poll on whether people would agree to payment in cash to evade tax - there was a fairly even split. But what people say and actually do may be two different things. Is there any hard data on it?
    I guess I fulfil your hypothesis as I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't just pay them cash
    Lots of people would agree. But if you help other people illegally pay less tax than they should => you end up paying more tax youself (current estimate is £769 per family*) AND conspire to commit a criminal offence. It's short-sighted, and undermines any indignation you might feel about people who commit other crimes.

    *http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/prosecuting_tax_evasion/
    Not really, people are allowed to view some crimes as more or less important than others
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362

    Evening everyone. Enjoying the Twitter punch up between between ex of this parish Louise Mensch and Andrew Neil.

    "Don't Menshn the Twitter War! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it!"
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nick Palmer FPT


    I locked myself out the other day and had a locksmith round. He openly offered me the choice of paying more with VAT or less without paperwork. I frowned and said curtly "The legal option with proper paperwork" and left it at that. Was he committing an offence by making the unsolicitied offer (there was a witness - a family friend)? Would HMRC prosecute on that basis? (And is it wise to make an enemy of a local locksmith?)



    The divide between politicians and normal people, Exhibit A

    Lol - FWIW my non-political friend was more shocked by the offer than I was. It's one of those things where people tend to do what friends do and assume that evertyone else is the same.

    I do remember a poll on whether people would agree to payment in cash to evade tax - there was a fairly even split. But what people say and actually do may be two different things. Is there any hard data on it?
    I guess I fulfil your hypothesis as I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't just pay them cash
    Lots of people would agree. But if you help other people illegally pay less tax than they should => you end up paying more tax youself (current estimate is £769 per family*) AND conspire to commit a criminal offence. It's short-sighted, and undermines any indignation you might feel about people who commit other crimes.

    *http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/prosecuting_tax_evasion/

    I never use anyone who asks for cash in hand. On top of all the wider social reasons, my experience is that such people are often prone to doing a shoddy job. And when they do, how do you get them to put it right?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.

    They need a party that can push through structural reform of the economy and labour market. A Eurosceptic party blaming their predicament on Europe is highly unlikely to be the solution.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does the SNP actually want to win an independence referendum?

    Of course!

    Like Brexit it is an aim in itself, with no real concern about what follows.

    I am by nature a Unionist, but think it will be different this time, and do not think that May will handle it well. Nothing would go down worse in Scotland than her refusal, but if May supports another indyref it will rile Scottish Unionists. I cannot see a way out for her.
    I don't disagree, but if things don't go well, the politicians who negotiated the exit from the UK would not go down well in history if they were perceived to have done a bad deal.
    With a start point of a £15bn deficit on a £150bn economy they would be toast very quickly.
    another halfwit , the deficit is due to westmonster vanity projects, drop all the crap and willy waving and you start of with no deficit.
    .
    , crossrail , High speed railway , hosing our money down the drain.
    Talking of infrastructure projects, how's that big new bridge looking - finished yet?
    Almost finished and under budget , quite amazing feat. held up a little bit by bad winter last year but must be a record for UK in that it did not cost multiple times the budget, Tories, labour and Lib Dems must be pig sick.
    [Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "Edinburgh Tram"]
    That was a labour council project and their Tory pals
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Tram_Inquiry
    Your point is ? It was handled by a council subsidiary and was a disaster, nothing to do with government. It happened because Tories and Labour hated the SNP and the fact that they had beaten them.
    At the end of the day it is still a fraction of what they will spend fixing the Palace in London , Houses of Parliament , Crossrail , MI5 HQ , HMRC IT project ...........................ad infinitum
    Edinburgh is in Scotland, last time I checked...

    (BTW I haven't ridden the tram yet, aim to do it with Glasgow Subway eventually, once I do the Tyne and Wear Metro, the last English "urban railway" I have yet to conquer, I mean ride)
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.

    They need a party that can push through structural reform of the economy and labour market. A Eurosceptic party blaming their predicament on Europe is highly unlikely to be the solution.

    Italy's big problem is that for a large number of Italians being Italian comes second to being from somewhere more local. It's no way to run a country. Maybe it should be more of a federal state.

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: Will May trigger #Aritcle50 this wk? Govt source says 50:50. Worries abt disrupting Dutch election (Weds)/ fuelling #Scotref2 (SNP conf Sat)

    Theresa May: never knowingly decisive.
    Her sacking of Osborne was certainly decisive... :smiley:
    She is not all bad Rob, she sorted that little creep out big time.
    I struggle to think of any other PM action which brought such national unity, as May sacking Osborne within half an hour of entering No 10.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.

    They need a party that can push through structural reform of the economy and labour market. A Eurosceptic party blaming their predicament on Europe is highly unlikely to be the solution.

    Italy's big problem is that for a large number of Italians being Italian comes second to being from somewhere more local. It's no way to run a country. Maybe it should be more of a federal state.
    Yes, a federal state would make a lot of sense, and would be historically coherent.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    edited March 2017
    tlg86 said:

    chestnut said:

    Vincenzo Scarpetta‏ @LondonerVince 8h8 hours ago

    Berlusconi has unveiled a revamped election manifesto including a 'parallel currency' (new lira alongside €). Big.

    The mark of a single currency is not only that all other currencies must be extinguished but that the capacity of other institutions to issue currencies must also be extinguished

    N. Tebbit, 30 October 1990
    I'm sorry, but that's appalling ignorant comment from Mr Tebbit.

    There are lots of parallel currencies in the world, in the UK, and in the Eurozone. They range from cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, through airmiles, gold, US dollars and various other tradable things.

    In Greece, the government created an alternative monetary system to enable them to pay bills during the height of their crisis a few years ago. They would pay you with an IOU that would be redeemable at some point in the future. Said IOUs (trading at a sizeable discount to face value) were used as money as suppliers paid their suppliers, etc. etc. etc.

    My favourite example of an alternative monetary system was Ireland in the 1970s, when all the bank clerks in the country went on strike for several months. Cheques were endorsed and re-endorsed and passed from person to person. New currencies sprung into existence to enable people to continue to do business. What was truly extraordinary is that almost no-one attempted to cheat the system.

    So, Mr Tebbit is surely wrong that the capacity of "other institutions to issue currencies" is or has been extinguished.

    If you want to leave the Euro, the only sensible plan that has been drafted so far is that of the Front National in France. Creating a parallel Lira in Italy wouldn't work, because no-one would want to be paid in it, because it would have been created with the explicit purpose of devaluation. Really, to leave the Euro you simply need to bite the bullet, close the banks for a week or ten days, and pass legislation to move everyone onto a new currency. You need to do this in absolute secrecy, otherwise you will crash the banking system through deposit flight ahead of you leaving the Euro. You also need to put in stabalisers to deal with the fact that many companies are going to have entered into contracts that they will be unable to fulfil, due to the Euro price of services being (top of the head) 30% higher than they were beforehand.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101

    I see no ships.

    The defeat and humiliation of these people can't come soon enough.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nick Palmer FPT


    I locked myself out the other day and had a locksmith round. He openly offered me the choice of paying more with VAT or less without paperwork. I frowned and said curtly "The legal option with proper paperwork" and left it at that. Was he committing an offence by making the unsolicitied offer (there was a witness - a family friend)? Would HMRC prosecute on that basis? (And is it wise to make an enemy of a local locksmith?)



    The divide between politicians and normal people, Exhibit A

    Lol - FWIW my non-political friend was more shocked by the offer than I was. It's one of those things where people tend to do what friends do and assume that evertyone else is the same.

    I do remember a poll on whether people would agree to payment in cash to evade tax - there was a fairly even split. But what people say and actually do may be two different things. Is there any hard data on it?
    I guess I fulfil your hypothesis as I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't just pay them cash
    Lots of people would agree. But if you help other people illegally pay less tax than they should => you end up paying more tax youself (current estimate is £769 per family*) AND conspire to commit a criminal offence. It's short-sighted, and undermines any indignation you might feel about people who commit other crimes.

    *http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/prosecuting_tax_evasion/

    I never use anyone who asks for cash in hand. On top of all the wider social reasons, my experience is that such people are often prone to doing a shoddy job. And when they do, how do you get them to put it right?
    You aren't friends with any builders, decorators, plumbers or electricians?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    edited March 2017

    I see no ships.

    twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/840981294674771968

    I think he is implying someone else sent it out on his account, which isn't that unusual.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:


    I think both Sinn Fein and the SNP have a window of opportunity between now and Brexit taking place. After Brexit, that window will slam shut.

    Actually autumn 2018 or even May 2019. I know May 2019 maybe after UK is out , but with Brexit having hit the barriers and people having seen it coming in slow motion, the Scots would vote for independence.

    Then, the UK will have to contend with another slide in the pound,

    or, hefty increase in interest rates to protect it.

    Neither looks good. The markets have already recognised this.

    10 year gilt which was at 0.52% in August 2016 ended at 1.23% on Friday. The creep has started big time.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    edited March 2017
    RobD said:

    I see no ships.

    twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/840981294674771968

    I think he is implying someone else sent it out on his account, which isn't that unusual.
    The Guardian runs his Twitter account?

    https://twitter.com/liamfoxmp/status/705674061016387584
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I think the Italians are very poorly served. Berlusconi is a corrupt joke. Grillo is an ignorant joke. They really need a sensible Euro-sceptic party.

    They need a party that can push through structural reform of the economy and labour market. A Eurosceptic party blaming their predicament on Europe is highly unlikely to be the solution.
    5* leads the latest 2 polls for the 2018 election and would probably form a government with the informal backing of Berlusconi's Forza Italia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    RobD said:

    I see no ships.

    twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/840981294674771968

    I think he is implying someone else sent it out on his account, which isn't that unusual.
    Nuttalism as it's known.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    RobD said:

    I see no ships.

    twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/840981294674771968

    I think he is implying someone else sent it out on his account, which isn't that unusual.
    The Guardian runs his Twitter account?
    An 'also' in that sentence regarding the Guardian would have made it clearer.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:


    I think both Sinn Fein and the SNP have a window of opportunity between now and Brexit taking place. After Brexit, that window will slam shut.

    Actually autumn 2018 or even May 2019. I know May 2019 maybe after UK is out , but with Brexit having hit the barriers and people having seen it coming in slow motion, the Scots would vote for independence.

    Then, the UK will have to contend with another slide in the pound,

    or, hefty increase in interest rates to protect it.

    Neither looks good. The markets have already recognised this.

    10 year gilt which was at 0.52% in August 2016 ended at 1.23% on Friday. The creep has started big time.
    I think we'll survive interest rates at 1.23%. I'm old enough to remember when they were in double digits.
This discussion has been closed.