I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
Is it not that the client for example in the case of Uber driver is the people you drive around...you don't work for Uber, they simply facilitate contracts for you as an agent.
Parties don't lose their right to govern because they u-turn on commitments, therefore they don't lose their mandate. They need to justify going against such commitments, but it is imbecilic to suggest a mandate is lost because, either because they planned poorly or events have changed things, they need to take a different path. Whether it is due to events or their own poor planning merely has a bearing on how much consequence they should face for changing tack.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
I think if you were say a lawyer and worked for one firm - but outside of that employment you did say speaking and also recieved book royalties, then you'd have a mix of PAYE (From your firm) and self employment income (From the books and speaking).....
Shouldn't that plot not be "on all households" but "on self-employed households" or at least those with one self-employed person. If only one in ten households in the 10th decile is affected by the change, for example, wouldn't that mean the change in average earning was actually £900? That being said, the values on the left hand side are so small (0.02% for the 5th decile) that even scaling them up by a factor of ten would only be a 0.2% change in average earnings!!
The NIcs increase raises ~ £500ma year and affects about 1.5m workers so an average cost of £330.
Thanks. Suspect it undoes some/all of the increases in the personal allowance over the last few years.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
Garbage. Being self-employed is "cushy"?? Erm, actually no, it isn't. It's risky, and lacks many of the benefits of being an employee. Catching the flu costs you hundreds if not thousands of pounds.
When I was self-employed I took on every bit of work out there and was doing 16 hour days six, sometimes seven, days a week. You take the cash when you can because you never know when it might not be there. I was delighted to get back to PAYE and actually took an income cut to do it. That said, what Hammond is proposing does not look too horrific to me.
I agree that it is far from horrific and I don't think I have outwardly criticised it as such, merely asked a question whether it is fair? My posts below were really aimed at some of the ignorance on display vis a vis the life of a freelancer and the lack of grasp as to the substantial attendant costs and risks of being one.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
I suspect this NIC rise will get a disproportionate amount of discussion on PB and the wider media because it will affect a disproportionate amount of people who frequent this site and work in the media.
Of course, that graph does not take into account the substantial attendant costs of being self-employed, and the very significant benefits of being employed. £60,000 pa s/e is worth a lot less than £60,000 pa employed.
But if the IR35 tax dodger is getting £60k p.a., the tax-paying staffy will probably be on around £40k p.a. for doing the same job.
In my experience in process engineering design houses, there is always a big income advantage for the contractors, but they have almost as much job security as the staff (the standing joke being what is the difference between a contractor and a staffy? 3 weeks - i.e. 1 week notice v 1 month notice). Contract draffies would be getting more than staff lead engineers.
Yes, in some cases, but that is not the point I was making. I was making the point that the graph is an illusion because – for the very reasons you cite – s/e get paid more to cover the costs and risks of being s/e!
So we are in agreement?!?! What a day!
Yes as unlikely as it may sound I believe that is nevertheless the case.
The local gov't/council hit tucked away over the next few years is enourmous. Increase for social care doesn't look like it covers it to me. That looks to be the real untold story of the budget, the NIC stuff is pure fluff in comparison.
Ah local government - hit hard for years, but bugger all defenders so its an easy target.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
No ,the nasty bit is the yokels and coffin dodgers names.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
That would be a novelty. Virtually every election is fought and won on the basis of making someone else pay.
I have to say we have got to quite a weird stage with budgets where no group can ever be clearly seen to have being singled out and on the losing end (with the exception of rich...but not those on £100k a year, cos they are just JAMs)....and I say that as somebody who will be getting the kick in the knackers with this change.
e.g. In the Omnishambles budget, the whole granny tax stuff was total utter nonsense.
It's completely ridiculous to expect a budget to have no losers. Along the lines that I say about other similar supposedly controversial things, if every budget is an omnishambles then no budget is an omnishambles.
Political question: To what extent does the May government feel unencumbered by manifesto promises made by Dave n George? My view: Pretty free to do what they want seems to be the answer. It feels like a new party and a new government - despite the brand retention.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
I'll defend that (though it looks like people are saying they are just retweeting his comments from pre election?). Would he have been able to keep to it had things gone according to his plans? Who can say, but why should he not draw attention to the pledge - it is going to come up, the Tories need to justify why it was either a stupid pledge they pretended was good, or why things are different now, they cannot pretend it did not exist, so it doesn't matter who brings it up.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
Political question: To what extent does the May government feel unencumbered by manifesto promises made by Dave n George? My view: Pretty free to do what they want seems to be the answer. It feels like a new party and a new government - despite the brand retention.
They could do with putting up some of those tacky "Under new management" signs you see , normally outside of pubs that had a terrible reputation as a s##thole or the places where all the trouble starts .
I wonder what the reaction on PB would have been if Hammond had brought back gambling tax?
Mike and myself would have done countless PB threads headlined
'Phil Hammond and Theresa May: Enemies of the people/punters'
How on earth would Betfair cope ?
They already have a massive tax!
Premium charge ? Betfair tells me I have £226 remaining allowance on that..
I don't understand exactly how it works, but it makes me worse off!!
It would be a good idea to use the money raised from PC paid by big punters and syndicates to abolish commission charges for small punters. The increase in business through better prices would benefit everyone
If the Treasury had the time to look in to Premium Charges, they'd conclude that they were effectively an income tax being levied by Betfair, and thus want a large chunk for themselves :-)
I'd have much less of an issue paying PC to the treasury rather than betfair's shareholders.
As I understand it though, Betfair's overall profits are taxed at a pretty high rate anyway - so a big chunk of what BF take in premium charges end up being handed over to the treasury.
What do you think to the idea that PC should pay for small punters to bet comm free?
Ultimately, betfair can do whatever they want to do.
From what I understand, they found themselves in the situation a few years ago where a handful of very professsional punters were consistently making gigantic amounts of money from their exchange - in aggregate far more than betfair were making themselves.
The consequence of them introducing the PC - which is now 50-60% at the top level - is that many BF betting markets have become less efficient.
Which means small EV+ punters like me have an edge.
I wonder what the reaction on PB would have been if Hammond had brought back gambling tax?
Mike and myself would have done countless PB threads headlined
'Phil Hammond and Theresa May: Enemies of the people/punters'
How on earth would Betfair cope ?
They already have a massive tax!
Premium charge ? Betfair tells me I have £226 remaining allowance on that..
I don't understand exactly how it works, but it makes me worse off!!
It would be a good idea to use the money raised from PC paid by big punters and syndicates to abolish commission charges for small punters. The increase in business through better prices would benefit everyone
If the Treasury had the time to look in to Premium Charges, they'd conclude that they were effectively an income tax being levied by Betfair, and thus want a large chunk for themselves :-)
I'd have much less of an issue paying PC to the treasury rather than betfair's shareholders.
As I understand it though, Betfair's overall profits are taxed at a pretty high rate anyway - so a big chunk of what BF take in premium charges end up being handed over to the treasury.
What do you think to the idea that PC should pay for small punters to bet comm free?
Ultimately, betfair can do whatever they want to do.
From what I understand, they found themselves in the situation a few years ago where a handful of very professsional punters were consistently making gigantic amounts of money from their exchange - in aggregate far more than betfair were making themselves.
The consequence of them introducing the PC - which is now 50-60% at the top level - is that many BF betting markets have become less efficient.
Which means small EV+ punters like me have an edge.
Political question: To what extent does the May government feel unencumbered by manifesto promises made by Dave n George? My view: Pretty free to do what they want seems to be the answer. It feels like a new party and a new government - despite the brand retention.
In practical terms if they disavow the whole lot they really will run into questions of mandate, but if on a case by case basis they say the changed circumstances of Brexit, positive and negative, require them to revisit certain issues, then they actually have a better justification for shifting away from those promises, while still being generally committed to the platform which won them reelection.
So I think it is a case that they need to proceed in line with the commitments unless they explicitly justify when a change occurs , and they need to acknowledge a change not get mad when people point out a change.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
An interesting theory. It had not occurred to me that I should wish to impose extra taxes on people who vote Labour.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
F1: just an aside amidst the grumpiness - if it is a close three way battle, Mercedes *might* suffer most due to relative difficulty running in traffic.
Not sure if it was taking the piss or genuine (I did ask for clarification) but an F1 Twitter account I follow suggested we may see cars stalling on the grid due to more difficult start procedures.
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
People are just retweeting what he said before the election. Does it make him a c--t to have made that commitment?
No, just a crap Prime Minister - in that he couldn't hold onto his job long enough to deliver on it....
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
He was PM for 6 years, not a bad run all things considered. And his party backed the promises, so unless all the current government who were in parliament then said it was crap at the time, they cannot criticise it for being obviously crap from the start. They would need to say why it is crap to continue with it now, not then. If they backed the policies of the leader then they cannot defend themselves now by saying they thought it crap from the start but were too loyal to say anything.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
Garbage. Being self-employed is "cushy"?? Erm, actually no, it isn't. It's risky, and lacks many of the benefits of being an employee. Catching the flu costs you hundreds if not thousands of pounds.
When I was self-employed I took on every bit of work out there and was doing 16 hour days six, sometimes seven, days a week. You take the cash when you can because you never know when it might not be there. I was delighted to get back to PAYE and actually took an income cut to do it. That said, what Hammond is proposing does not look too horrific to me.
I agree that it is far from horrific and I don't think I have outwardly criticised it as such, merely asked a question whether it is fair? My posts below were really aimed at some of the ignorance on display vis a vis the life of a freelancer and the lack of grasp as to the substantial attendant costs and risks of being one.
Snap. As I said earlier I am not convinced that Hammond has gone too far - and Osborne's attacks on contract workers was far more extensive and costly. It is the general tone of the attacks on self employed and small companies that is concerning. If the sorts of people who frequent PB do not understand how the economy relies on these people then there is little hope that this will be the end of the assault on the self employed.
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
People are just retweeting what he said before the election. Does it make him a c--t to have made that commitment?
No, just a crap Prime Minister - in that he couldn't hold onto his job long enough to deliver on it....
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
"Read my lips: no new taxes".
It is bloody stupid to make such promises.
But so tempting - people love a firm commitment like that. It's a question of if you will be riding high enough to get away with backtracking the less realistic ones.
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
I'll defend that (though it looks like people are saying they are just retweeting his comments from pre election?). Would he have been able to keep to it had things gone according to his plans? Who can say, but why should he not draw attention to the pledge - it is going to come up, the Tories need to justify why it was either a stupid pledge they pretended was good, or why things are different now, they cannot pretend it did not exist, so it doesn't matter who brings it up.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
@MrHarryCole: PA: "As he left the chamber, former chancellor George Osborne could be seen tapping Mr Hammond on the shoulder and giving him a thumbs-up"
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
I'll defend that (though it looks like people are saying they are just retweeting his comments from pre election?). Would he have been able to keep to it had things gone according to his plans? Who can say, but why should he not draw attention to the pledge - it is going to come up, the Tories need to justify why it was either a stupid pledge they pretended was good, or why things are different now, they cannot pretend it did not exist, so it doesn't matter who brings it up.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
It was a stupid pledge from cameron.
That may well be so. But if May and co were happy to back it then, they cannot say it was stupid without making themselves liars and hypocrites, so they need to explain why circumstances are different and they cannot stick to what was a very good plan at the time.
Given circumstances really are quite dramatically different, that should be easier to manage than with most u-turns, though whether that will help through the backlash is anyone's guess.
@MrHarryCole: PA: "As he left the chamber, former chancellor George Osborne could be seen tapping Mr Hammond on the shoulder and giving him a thumbs-up"
So given the general esteem of Cameron and Osborne by many now, that is a clear sign the budget was terrible I guess.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
However, IR35 is a joke.
In what way? It's a pain but surely it's intent and effect is to limit tax abuse.
But it doesn't work. The so-called self employed spend 3 years or more sat at the same desk in a company's office, using the company's hardware and software, wearing a company ID, using a company email address and handing out company business cards. But that company isn't their employer. Definitely not. The tax man should be looking at the companies, not just the contractors.
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
People are just retweeting what he said before the election. Does it make him a c--t to have made that commitment?
No, just a crap Prime Minister - in that he couldn't hold onto his job long enough to deliver on it....
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
He was PM for 6 years, not a bad run all things considered. And his party backed the promises, so unless all the current government who were in parliament then said it was crap at the time, they cannot criticise it for being obviously crap from the start. They would need to say why it is crap to continue with it now, not then. If they backed the policies of the leader then they cannot defend themselves now by saying they thought it crap from the start but were too loyal to say anything.
David Cameron was a far better Coalition Prime Minister (five years) than he was a Conservative Prime Minister (one year).
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
People are just retweeting what he said before the election. Does it make him a c--t to have made that commitment?
No, just a crap Prime Minister - in that he couldn't hold onto his job long enough to deliver on it....
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
He was PM for 6 years, not a bad run all things considered. And his party backed the promises, so unless all the current government who were in parliament then said it was crap at the time, they cannot criticise it for being obviously crap from the start. They would need to say why it is crap to continue with it now, not then. If they backed the policies of the leader then they cannot defend themselves now by saying they thought it crap from the start but were too loyal to say anything.
David Cameron was a far better Coalition Prime Minister (five years) than he was a Conservative Prime Minister (one year).
Discuss. Use both sides of the paper.
Don't know if that can be stretched out to two sides.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
IR35 doesn't work.
"[IR35] is raising just £1.5m a year from the tax, a tiny amount in terms of the overall tax burden. The Government had expected to raise £220m a year in National Insurance contributions alone, without even taking the extra income tax into account."
The Moggster is also worried about the NI changes.
Worried they are bad or worried people will not like it?
Both.
I'm sure the Moggster will be able to suggest where the additional money can be gleaned from, or what else can be dropped to make up for not doing it. Whatever else, he's an ideas man at times.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
However, IR35 is a joke.
In what way? It's a pain but surely it's intent and effect is to limit tax abuse.
But it doesn't work. The so-called self employed spend 3 years or more sat at the same desk in a company's office, using the company's hardware and software, wearing a company ID, using a company email address and handing out company business cards. But that company isn't their employer. Definitely not. The tax man should be looking at the companies, not just the contractors.
I think the legislation does place the onus on the ultimate employing entity. They can confirm status via a tool (input terms and the tool advises if this is an employee of contractor for tax/PAYE purposes). Where the individual comes via an agency the ultimate employer is obliged to ensure the agency deducts tax.
I'm sure the Moggster will be able to suggest where the additional money can be gleaned from, or what else can be dropped to make up for not doing it. Whatever else, he's an ideas man at times.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Remind us to what extent you recused yourself from commenting on POTUS last year because this is not www.usapb.com, and indeed how silent you have been about France.
Severing links with a load of expressly and unashamedly racist bigots like the Hungarians is one of the many beneficial aspects of Brexit. But if you want to carry on loathing the English WWC, knock yourself out when the EDL accepts Orban's invitation and moves in next door to you.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
I'll defend that (though it looks like people are saying they are just retweeting his comments from pre election?). Would he have been able to keep to it had things gone according to his plans? Who can say, but why should he not draw attention to the pledge - it is going to come up, the Tories need to justify why it was either a stupid pledge they pretended was good, or why things are different now, they cannot pretend it did not exist, so it doesn't matter who brings it up.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
It was a stupid pledge from cameron.
Don't remember many people saying that in 2015 funnily enough.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
It must be those Nimbys who are afraid of concreting over the countryside but are also yearning to turn England into the Singapore of Europe.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
In the days of google, flagrant misstatements of that kind are unwise.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
A lot of people who live in London aren't from London themselves, so of course they are ok with others doing what they do.
Lots of Londoners move out because of it, and lots of people on the outskirts don't want their hometown to become like the places they pass on their commute. That's why they are anti immigration.
I sense you are clucking for an argument, but I have already said "so let it be", so don't worry yourself about it
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
One of the great social paradoxes. I was at a wedding over the summer in Northumberland where my wife's pissed uncle was enthusiastically regaling me with his reasons for voting Brexit – because of all the immigrants coming in. The only 'immigrants' as far as the eye could see were the handful of Londoners who attended the celebration.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
One of the great social paradoxes. I was at a wedding over the summer in Northumberland where my wife's pissed uncle was enthusiastically regaling me with his reasons for voting Brexit – because of all the immigrants coming in. The only 'immigrants' as far as the eye could see were the handful of Londoners who attended the celebration.
Immigration must just be a figment of his imagination then!
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
I'll defend that (though it looks like people are saying they are just retweeting his comments from pre election?). Would he have been able to keep to it had things gone according to his plans? Who can say, but why should he not draw attention to the pledge - it is going to come up, the Tories need to justify why it was either a stupid pledge they pretended was good, or why things are different now, they cannot pretend it did not exist, so it doesn't matter who brings it up.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
It was a stupid pledge from cameron.
Don't remember many people saying that in 2015 funnily enough.
I remember some pb posters on here at the time saying it was a silly/stupid pledge,read my lips kept coming into my head when cameron pledged it ;-)
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
In the days of google, flagrant misstatements of that kind are unwise.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
However, IR35 is a joke.
Yes, it didn't do much to stop those sellafield workers earning £150k a year, paying it into a Ltd company. Paying themselves minimum wage, claiming tax credits and dumping much of the rest into pension funds. Of course that last little wheeze has been done away with.
I can't honestly complain about the NI changes, though I expect they will clobber me.
It would be nice, however, to see the costs of Brexit put in part on the shoulders of those who voted for it. Where are the tax rises and spending cuts that affect yokels and coffin dodgers?
You really are Quite nasty,when are you selling up the house in hungary after the new law on asylum seekers or is it just this country you think is nasty on that issue.
Should you wish to set up www.hungarianpoliticalbetting.com I will gladly hold forth at length about that country's many political defects.
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
Stop being such a little Englander! This site has an internationalist outlook
So it does - London, Scotland and the unwashed bits of England. How much more internationalist could you want?
London, Scotland, and where English people live?
I thought England was swamped by immigration and all those foreigners so that can't be right.
London is swamped by immigration, but the people from England that choose to move there are ok with it, so let it be.
But London has no problem with immigration according to the Brexit vote demographics. It is only the areas with little or no immigration that dislike immigration so much.
One of the great social paradoxes. I was at a wedding over the summer in Northumberland where my wife's pissed uncle was enthusiastically regaling me with his reasons for voting Brexit – because of all the immigrants coming in. The only 'immigrants' as far as the eye could see were the handful of Londoners who attended the celebration.
Immigration must just be a figment of his imagination then!
Unless you count sheep from the neighbouring county there were sod all immigrants in the area.
I thought it was already illegal to claim self-employed status if you do most of your work for one company.
Uber, Amazon etc etc? They all use "self employed" . no it is not illegal.
Yes it is illegal as you would become ensnared by IR35 legislation – designed to stop 'freelancers' working for a single client.
However, IR35 is a joke.
Yes, it didn't do much to stop those sellafield workers earning £150k a year, paying it into a Ltd company. Paying themselves minimum wage, claiming tax credits and dumping much of the rest into pension funds. Of course that last little wheeze has been done away with.
Absolute genius idea. Why only Sellafield, do workers develop accountancy superpowers there?
David cameron has tweeted the tory pledge of no tax increase for five years -what a c--t.
People are just retweeting what he said before the election. Does it make him a c--t to have made that commitment?
No, just a crap Prime Minister - in that he couldn't hold onto his job long enough to deliver on it....
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
He was PM for 6 years, not a bad run all things considered. And his party backed the promises, so unless all the current government who were in parliament then said it was crap at the time, they cannot criticise it for being obviously crap from the start. They would need to say why it is crap to continue with it now, not then. If they backed the policies of the leader then they cannot defend themselves now by saying they thought it crap from the start but were too loyal to say anything.
David Cameron was a far better Coalition Prime Minister (five years) than he was a Conservative Prime Minister (one year).
Discuss. Use both sides of the paper.
I'd spend the first side of the paper arguing that a coalition Government by its nature leads to Government more closely aligned with the national interest than majority rule.
Then the second side asking how much of a different Cameron made given these constraints - concluding it's not as much as either his fan club or sworn enemies would like to think.
OK budget I thought - NICs raise seems aimed at Tory supporters. yes they can get away with whatever they like at the moment but thought they would protect the client base. . Real story is total absence of opposition from Labour, they aren't just a bad opposition they are a pointless one.
Governments don't usually have the guts to say that was then, the situation is different now, so presumably it's either u turn incoming or they'll some how pretend this is not the same thing.
Obvious question: does the government have the votes to get the NI changes through?
Assuming a unified opposition, nope it only needs 8 MPs to rebel.
It depends how many Tory MPs get bombarded by the self employed in the next few days.
The opposition won't be unified will it though, Sinn Fein won't be showing up for starters - so you'll need to revise your numbers slightly. Will the DUP manage a full turnout against ?
Comments
For now I'll just note that you think it nasty to expect the people who voted for a course of action to share some of the burden of the course of action they sought and not just to sponge off the people who were bitterly opposed to it.
When you break a pledge it is not unfair for people to bring it up, whoever they are. If it is necessary, trust the people to understand. If they don't understand, well, unfortunate but they'll have to suck it up.
He hasn't tweeted it. People are retweeting it from two years ago.
Perhaps you're the c--t
From what I understand, they found themselves in the situation a few years ago where a handful of very professsional punters were consistently making gigantic amounts of money from their exchange - in aggregate far more than betfair were making themselves.
The consequence of them introducing the PC - which is now 50-60% at the top level - is that many BF betting markets have become less efficient.
Which means small EV+ punters like me have an edge.
Swings & roundabouts etc etc.
It was also a crap thing to say in the first place, if it means you locked unfairness into the system for five years.
So I think it is a case that they need to proceed in line with the commitments unless they explicitly justify when a change occurs , and they need to acknowledge a change not get mad when people point out a change.
It is bloody stupid to make such promises.
Not sure if it was taking the piss or genuine (I did ask for clarification) but an F1 Twitter account I follow suggested we may see cars stalling on the grid due to more difficult start procedures.
Given circumstances really are quite dramatically different, that should be easier to manage than with most u-turns, though whether that will help through the backlash is anyone's guess.
Discuss. Use both sides of the paper.
He was not in thrall to the headbangers
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/ir35_tax_revenues/
And since then it has fallen even further, down to £200K in 2011
Let's face it, Hammond had the best gags today.
Well that's one way to get an early election..
Severing links with a load of expressly and unashamedly racist bigots like the Hungarians is one of the many beneficial aspects of Brexit. But if you want to carry on loathing the English WWC, knock yourself out when the EDL accepts Orban's invitation and moves in next door to you.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boston-how-a-lincolnshire-town-became-the-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html
Lots of Londoners move out because of it, and lots of people on the outskirts don't want their hometown to become like the places they pass on their commute. That's why they are anti immigration.
I sense you are clucking for an argument, but I have already said "so let it be", so don't worry yourself about it
In my mind these NIC changes < Tax Credit changes <<<<<<< Disability cuts in terms of 'ought to possibly consider reversing'.
Yes, it didn't do much to stop those sellafield workers earning £150k a year, paying it into a Ltd company. Paying themselves minimum wage, claiming tax credits and dumping much of the rest into pension funds. Of course that last little wheeze has been done away with.
*That is not to say it is an unfair measure, simply that it will have consequences and victims.
Then the second side asking how much of a different Cameron made given these constraints - concluding it's not as much as either his fan club or sworn enemies would like to think.
OK budget I thought - NICs raise seems aimed at Tory supporters. yes they can get away with whatever they like at the moment but thought they would protect the client base. . Real story is total absence of opposition from Labour, they aren't just a bad opposition they are a pointless one.
It depends how many Tory MPs get bombarded by the self employed in the next few days.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/839514672759988224
(Unless one subscribes to a conspiracy theory that May would quite like an election against Corbyn).
In the days of yore, prior to the FTPA, a budget was a vote of confidence issue, now it ain't.