What is Corbyn going about with children's funerals? I mean he is right the government doesn't currently pay for funerals (rightly so in my view), but how are they cutting support for these people if they don't already get any money?
The greatest political surprise from Hammond's budget is that there was at least as much micro-managing as in Osborne's budgets. A lot of small measures announced.
Indeed - it feels a bit 'no real change, but tinkering here there and everywhere to no great effect'. Am wondering if there's something big in the Red book that we've not seen yet?
The greatest political surprise from Hammond's budget is that there was at least as much micro-managing as in Osborne's budgets. A lot of small measures announced.
I agree, £5m for this and £16m for that really don't deserve a mention when dealing with a £1.7trn economy.
No precisely the opposite, NI contributions should be more linked to welfare, pensions and care entitlements
Even if you think they should be linked they aren't so now, which is why it is such a stupid tax.
They are to the extent state pension entitlement is linked to it as entitlement to contributory JSA is linked to NIC contributions,the more it becomes like an insurance than a tax the better
Has no-one ever listened to a LOTO's budget response before? Any connection to the actual budget is purely coincidental since it was written before the budget speech and before the shadow treasury team has audited the red book.
Several gimmicks in there. Perhaps cheerleaders can explain where GP's to triage in A+E, and teachers to teach technical subjects in Colleges are to come from? 2 groups we are already short of.
The solution is obvious. NI should be abolished and IT increased to compensate. So many different unfair differentials removed at a stroke.
I agree with that. NI conjures up visions amongst the public — their own personal pot of gold at the Bank of England — that are completely wrong. Getting rid of it would be a fairer way of taxing income, simpler to administer, and have fewer anomalies.
No precisely the opposite, NI contributions should be more linked to welfare, pensions and care entitlements
So perhaps abolish NI and bring in a Social Security Tax [or I prefer the word Contributions]. It would be hypothecated to pay for state pensions, unemployed insurance, disability living alliwance, a basic income once we have have one, et al. It's paid on all income above the tax threshold of ~£11k and it's paid by persons of all ages with no upper limit.
We could also have a Health and Social Care Tax [or Contributions] to fund the integrated NHS and social care system. Again, payable on all income above the threshold.
Rubbish. A death tax really would have been toxic and certainly broken a manifesto commitment, getting the self employed to pay NICs to pay for their social care is entirely sensible
The vast majority of people are on PAYE and many have never received a direct dividend in their life.
Lots of journos are freelancers, of course.
This looks like a reasonable and gradual change - and allied to the abolition of Class II NICs I believe Hammond said anyone under 60k would be better off [in strictly NIC terms]?
Has no-one ever listened to a LOTO's budget response before? Any connection to the actual budget is purely coincidental since it was written before the budget speech and before the shadow treasury team has audited the red book.
But they normally at least pretend to have heard the speech.
Absolutely not. NI was set up to pay for welfare, pensions and healthcare, social care is exactly what it should be paying for
By that reasoning the revenue from income tax should be exclusively devoted to fighting the French.
Well, if Brexit goes really badly, it may well be again.
Please, people, perspective. UK gov raises £200bn (ish) off income tax. How much would it take to beat the French; few million, tops? That's a *lot* of tax refunds.
Well, it's not just beating them but then taking back all the best bits of the country - Burgundy, for instance, the Champagne region etc. I'm quite happy to have my tax refund in cases of fine wines.
Rubbish. A death tax really would have been toxic and certainly broken a manifesto commitment, getting the self employed to pay NICs to pay for their social care is entirely sensible
Breaking a manifesto commitment like leaving the SIngle Market?
The solution is obvious. NI should be abolished and IT increased to compensate. So many different unfair differentials removed at a stroke.
I agree with that. NI conjures up visions amongst the public — their own personal pot of gold at the Bank of England — that are completely wrong. Getting rid of it would be a fairer way of taxing income, simpler to administer, and have fewer anomalies.
No precisely the opposite, NI contributions should be more linked to welfare, pensions and care entitlements
So perhaps abolish NI and bring in a Social Security Tax [or I prefer the word Contributions]. It would be hypothecated to pay for state pensions, unemployed insurance, disability living alliwance, a basic income once we have have one, et al. It's paid on all income above the tax threshold of ~£11k and it's paid by persons of all ages with no upper limit.
We could also have a Health and Social Care Tax [or Contributions] to fund the integrated NHS and social care system. Again, payable on all income above the threshold.
I don't mind the principle but it should be called an insurance (or contributions) and not a tax
Unlike Osborne, Hammond hasn't increased VAT in his first budget. He must be saving that for the autumn. Once you've broken the first manifesto commitment on taxation, the rest come easily.
The vast majority of people are on PAYE and many have never received a direct dividend in their life.
Lots of journos are freelancers, of course.
This looks like a reasonable and gradual change - and allied to the abolition of Class II NICs I believe Hammond said anyone under 60k would be better off [in strictly NIC terms]?
PAYErs vastly under-represented amongst media types, like the people who know someone in EU/ex-pat divide ?
Disappointing there was nothing on discouraging diesel.
That would open a can of worms. A BMJ article indicated that UK-wide woodstove emissions are 2-3 x larger than UK-wide diesel emissions. So those will need to be discouraged or banned.
Quite a lot of the diesel smoke total comes from buses, diesel trains, lorries and shipping, not cars. In addition the diesel cars of the last 5-10 years are significantly cleaner than those still in service and 10-20 years old (most of these should be scrapped.)
The lobbying against diesel (but nothing against wood, coal or oil boilers, which also pollute) is probably in part traceable to the nuclear lobby. It's been fairly desperate for some time for a large fleet of electric cars to absorb large amounts of night-time electricity, summer and winter.
Absolutely not. NI was set up to pay for welfare, pensions and healthcare, social care is exactly what it should be paying for
By that reasoning the revenue from income tax should be exclusively devoted to fighting the French.
Well, if Brexit goes really badly, it may well be again.
Please, people, perspective. UK gov raises £200bn (ish) off income tax. How much would it take to beat the French; few million, tops? That's a *lot* of tax refunds.
Well, it's not just beating them but then taking back all the best bits of the country - Burgundy, for instance, the Champagne region etc. I'm quite happy to have my tax refund in cases of fine wines.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Rubbish. A death tax really would have been toxic and certainly broken a manifesto commitment, getting the self employed to pay NICs to pay for their social care is entirely sensible
Breaking a manifesto commitment like leaving the SIngle Market?
Most Tory voters back that and the Leave vote changed things
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Get a better English teacher. Comparing is a neutral term allowing you to do both.
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Get a better English teacher. Comparing is a neutral term allowing you to do both.
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
"Definitions Compare and contrast essays are multi-paragraph compositions that explain ways in which two (or, very occasionally, more) subjects are similar or different.
In these papers, compare means describing similarities between the subjects...
The arch-enemy of comparing is contrasting. When you contrast two things, you explain ways in which they are different..."
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
I understand the need to rationalise and equalise the tax/NI system by reducing tax benefits to self employment or small company directorship businesses. But he does have to be careful not to go too far.
There are very large numbers of people who are one man (or woman) bands because that is the nature of their business with lots of short term consultancy type work that serves many larger companies and sectors. If those people get sick the company does not make any money. There is no one to pay sick pay or to keep the income coming in to keep the company going. In my case I simply cannot afford to get sick or my company goes bust and I lose everything. As a result I have to pay out very large sums of money for insurances to cover me through such eventualities. If you are being fair and not playing the system and at the same time being sensible and making sure you are covered for unexpected illness then there really aren't the big advantages people seem to think to working for yourself as far as tax and health cover are concerned.
I don't suggest that Hammond has yet gone too far but the idea that everyone who is self employed is doing so because of tax advantages is simply not true.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
You really do display a most stunning level of ignorance about this subject.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Did any of them compare our EU contributions with the NHS budget?
Has no-one ever listened to a LOTO's budget response before? Any connection to the actual budget is purely coincidental since it was written before the budget speech and before the shadow treasury team has audited the red book.
I think there are probably bits that have obviously been undercut by the chancellor's speech which need emergency excision or revision, but in general I'd be forgiving for the reasons you list.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
No the Tories can afford to lose a few self employed voters to UKIP to pay for social care, think of it as an act of charity by Hammond to the Kippers in their hour of need!
I suspect this NIC rise will get a disproportionate amount of discussion on PB and the wider media because it will affect a disproportionate amount of people who frequent this site and work in the media.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Did any of them compare our EU contributions with the NHS budget?
Rubbish. A death tax really would have been toxic and certainly broken a manifesto commitment, getting the self employed to pay NICs to pay for their social care is entirely sensible
Breaking a manifesto commitment like leaving the SIngle Market?
Sometimes breaking a manifesto commitment is necessary due to events even if it was well thought out in the first place (many are not, and if broken deserve more scorn for being not thought out in the first place). It's a question of reasonableness. If circumstances mean one cannot keep to a plan not to raise x or y, it needs justifying, the mere fact it is a broken promise does not necessarily mean it is unreasonable of course.
Judging from past years, if the chancellor's speech is super well received in the first instance it will unravel piece by piece over the next few days?
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Get a better English teacher. Comparing is a neutral term allowing you to do both.
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
"Definitions Compare and contrast essays are multi-paragraph compositions that explain ways in which two (or, very occasionally, more) subjects are similar or different.
In these papers, compare means describing similarities between the subjects...
The arch-enemy of comparing is contrasting. When you contrast two things, you explain ways in which they are different..."
Mr. Tyndall, it'd be nice to be self-employed for tax reasons, one imagines.
Still going to keep fiction writing, but fairly soon I'm going to have to look for other stuff too. So, if anybody knows of news writing or perhaps reviewing or other writing jobs, do let me know.
Judging from past years, if the chancellor's speech is super well received in the first instance it will unravel piece by piece over the next few days?
in my humble view, the NI change and whether a break of the GE manifesto is the only story the Budget is going to focus on.... so little else there.
Is the NIC equalisation fair? Lots of self-employed people do work our company. They get no sick pay, holiday pay etc etc. Employees get tons of benefits that freelance suppliers lack (and have to pay to cover).
@jimwaterson: "This government is committed to its manifesto commitments," says Hammond's spokesperson when asked why they broke a manifesto commitment.
I suspect this NIC rise will get a disproportionate amount of discussion on PB and the wider media because it will affect a disproportionate amount of people who frequent this site and work in the media.
Is the NIC equalisation fair? Lots of self-employed people do work our company. They get no sick pay, holiday pay etc etc. Employees get tons of benefits that freelance suppliers lack (and have to pay to cover).
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Get a better English teacher. Comparing is a neutral term allowing you to do both.
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
"Definitions Compare and contrast essays are multi-paragraph compositions that explain ways in which two (or, very occasionally, more) subjects are similar or different.
In these papers, compare means describing similarities between the subjects...
The arch-enemy of comparing is contrasting. When you contrast two things, you explain ways in which they are different..."
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
Garbage. Being self-employed is "cushy"?? Erm, actually no, it isn't. It's risky, and lacks many of the benefits of being an employee. Catching the flu costs you hundreds if not thousands of pounds.
I suspect this NIC rise will get a disproportionate amount of discussion on PB and the wider media because it will affect a disproportionate amount of people who frequent this site and work in the media.
I suspect this NIC rise will get a disproportionate amount of discussion on PB and the wider media because it will affect a disproportionate amount of people who frequent this site and work in the media.
Of course, that graph does not take into account the substantial attendant costs of being self-employed, and the very significant benefits of being employed. £60,000 pa s/e is worth a lot less than £60,000 pa employed.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
No. You compare things to see to what extent they are different or similar. It is a neutral assessment. Contrasting means specifically looking for differences.
No. You compare similarities and contrast differences. I've written enough Compare & Contrast essays in recent years...
Get a better English teacher. Comparing is a neutral term allowing you to do both.
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
"Definitions Compare and contrast essays are multi-paragraph compositions that explain ways in which two (or, very occasionally, more) subjects are similar or different.
In these papers, compare means describing similarities between the subjects...
The arch-enemy of comparing is contrasting. When you contrast two things, you explain ways in which they are different..."
I might have to expel you from the Not obsessed by the gays, immigrants, and the EU, fiscally dry and socially liberal new Tory Party if you say that again.
Is the NIC equalisation fair? Lots of self-employed people do work our company. They get no sick pay, holiday pay etc etc. Employees get tons of benefits that freelance suppliers lack (and have to pay to cover).
Brexit has to be paid for somehow.
Well quite. It seems those who offer companies huge flexibility by taking on employment risk on their own shoulders are the ones the government wants to pay the penalty.
The NIC rise is going to hit a fair amount of people and not raise that much by the looks of it. Also goes against the aspirational some of them middle class voters the Tories have been courting and have said they are on their side. My father is self employed because he can't find a HR job because of his age, he has no choice but to go self employed at the moment.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
I suspect it wont - and this is just the first increase - expect YoY increases.
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
Garbage. Being self-employed is "cushy"?? Erm, actually no, it isn't. It's risky, and lacks many of the benefits of being an employee. Catching the flu costs you hundreds if not thousands of pounds.
Lots of generalisations on display here - it all depends on your job, daily rate etc. Lots of S/E types will be earning good daily rates and paying substantially less tax than those on PAYE thanks to clever accounting and write-offs so in some cases it is 'cushy'. In others, where people are in S/E jobs on low day-rates or less regular work, it clearly isn't.
Who knew the foundations of the self-employed economy teetered on just a 60p a week NI increase.
Here's the thing. Let's see how many of the self-employed are desperate to become employees as a consequence of these changes. I'm thinking the answer is going to be EXTREMELY close to zero....
Comments
(And then claim the cost of getting there as a business expense to offset tax)
The 4-6 for over 50 looked wrong to me in particular - even if you accept 57 minutes as the midpoint.
Labour cannot go on like this
Was he even in the house for the speech??
May and Hammond have a mandate problem.
Corbyn xD ?!
We could also have a Health and Social Care Tax [or Contributions] to fund the integrated NHS and social care system. Again, payable on all income above the threshold.
Except we know, a) a large proportion get paid very well and b) agency work (cause that is what it is) is not unpopular.
The big problem with ZHC was when it was legal for firms to demand exclusivity. Which I believe is now not allowed.
Lots of journos are freelancers, of course.
This looks like a reasonable and gradual change - and allied to the abolition of Class II NICs I believe Hammond said anyone under 60k would be better off [in strictly NIC terms]?
Most voters will think it only fair that NICs are more equal.
Quite a lot of the diesel smoke total comes from buses, diesel trains, lorries and shipping, not cars. In addition the diesel cars of the last 5-10 years are significantly cleaner than those still in service and 10-20 years old (most of these should be scrapped.)
The lobbying against diesel (but nothing against wood, coal or oil boilers, which also pollute) is probably in part traceable to the nuclear lobby. It's been fairly desperate for some time for a large fleet of electric cars to absorb large amounts of night-time electricity, summer and winter.
Comparing them, they are all red. Contrasting them, some are thicker than others.
Wikileaks
WikiLeaks has released less than 1% of its #Vault7 series in its part one publication yesterday 'Year Zero'.
Great joke btw from Hammond about driverless cars..
Chambers:
compare verb (compared, comparing) 1 to examine (items, etc) to see what differences or similarities they have.
Everyone is going to die at some point.
I strongly suspect it will get dropped before it comes into effect.
Compare and contrast essays are multi-paragraph compositions that explain ways in which two (or, very occasionally, more) subjects are similar or different.
In these papers, compare means describing similarities between the subjects...
The arch-enemy of comparing is contrasting. When you contrast two things, you explain ways in which they are different..."
http://study.com/academy/lesson/compare-contrast-essay-definition-topics-examples.html
Most voters are PAYE and probably didn't realise how cushy the S/E have it.
There are very large numbers of people who are one man (or woman) bands because that is the nature of their business with lots of short term consultancy type work that serves many larger companies and sectors. If those people get sick the company does not make any money. There is no one to pay sick pay or to keep the income coming in to keep the company going. In my case I simply cannot afford to get sick or my company goes bust and I lose everything. As a result I have to pay out very large sums of money for insurances to cover me through such eventualities. If you are being fair and not playing the system and at the same time being sensible and making sure you are covered for unexpected illness then there really aren't the big advantages people seem to think to working for yourself as far as tax and health cover are concerned.
I don't suggest that Hammond has yet gone too far but the idea that everyone who is self employed is doing so because of tax advantages is simply not true.
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/839477940781985793
Mr. Tyndall, it'd be nice to be self-employed for tax reasons, one imagines.
Still going to keep fiction writing, but fairly soon I'm going to have to look for other stuff too. So, if anybody knows of news writing or perhaps reviewing or other writing jobs, do let me know.
@SamCoatesTimes: ... Treasury urge public to take into account class 2 change to NICs when calculating "losers" - leaving 1.6m paying more NICs
perhaps it's a deliberate strategy?
Damit. Don't make me agree with Reckless.
https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/839476597405200384
Mandatehttps://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/593305130780483584
Looks thoroughly progressive to me.
Won't the increase in tax thresholds actually mean everyone in that chart (Up to about the 8th decile or so) is better off anyway ?
Well quite. It seems those who offer companies huge flexibility by taking on employment risk on their own shoulders are the ones the government wants to pay the penalty.
That NI decision will be reversed.
Here's the thing. Let's see how many of the self-employed are desperate to become employees as a consequence of these changes. I'm thinking the answer is going to be EXTREMELY close to zero....