Saying that Parliament is sovereign while we're in the EU is a bit like saying the Queen has the right to veto Acts of Parliament. If one can only exercise a right at the cost of bringing down the entire system, it has ceased to be a right in a substantive sense. This was why the referendum timing was so fortunate; we had experienced sufficient integration to demonstrate to the electorate just how entrapped we were, but not so much that withdrawal would be catastrophic.
SeanT is right. If it had been another 5-10 years, it would have been too late.
They should throw away the key plus forced surgical castration, without an anaesthetic
Feel better now?
OK, a little over the top, perhaps they can use an aspirin to deaden the pain.
'the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue'
Well, this puts one argument to bed ... twitter.com/Law_and_policy/status/827150102288596994
The UK was always technically sovereign, as the Brexit vote demonstrated.
The issue was whether the people were happy to (in practice) give up more and more control to the EU. "Practical Sovereignty", if you like.
The EU is/was us. It's not a foreign body to which we give something up, but a shared resource to which we collectively delegate that which is common.
No, the EU was far more "them" than "us".
Unless you view French, Dutch, German MEPs, voters, Ministers and Prime Ministers as being "us" and "our" PM/ministers/voters then the EU is not us.
I do.
And that's absolutely fine William. At some point in the future, once all us middle aged folks have croaked, perhaps the UK will join the EU and shuffle off hand in hand in Euroland. Perhaps even before then, if the young get into the habit of voting at General Elections. Patience, young padawan.
The use of "security" fee demands needs to be addressed to - it's just financial censorship.
5 mins in
youtu.be/TcmE-9hqxCc
I think it's the same for all events
Like all sponsors of similar events, BCR will be required to reimburse the University for the cost of basic event security. Law enforcement professionals in the UCPD have also explained to the BCR that, consistent with legal requirements, security charges were calculated based on neutral, objective criteria having nothing to do with the speaker’s perspectives, prior conduct on other campuses and/or expected protests by those who stand in opposition to his beliefs, rhetoric, and behavior.
Sounds entirely reasonable to me. The idea that the university is somehow to blame for the actions of idiots who allowed themselves to be provoked into violence by another idiot is absurd. Though of course, Berkeley is a liberal university, so fair game for the right wing trolls.
If it wasn't sovereign, how could we leave the EU?
Indeed. But in many things it was only technically sovereign, not effectively so, as to assert that sovereignty it would first have needed to Leave the EU...
Well, this puts one argument to bed ... twitter.com/Law_and_policy/status/827150102288596994
The UK was always technically sovereign, as the Brexit vote demonstrated.
The issue was whether the people were happy to (in practice) give up more and more control to the EU. "Practical Sovereignty", if you like.
The EU is/was us. It's not a foreign body to which we give something up, but a shared resource to which we collectively delegate that which is common.
No, the EU was far more "them" than "us".
Unless you view French, Dutch, German MEPs, voters, Ministers and Prime Ministers as being "us" and "our" PM/ministers/voters then the EU is not us.
I do.
And that's absolutely fine William. At some point in the future, once all us middle aged folks have croaked, perhaps the UK will join the EU and shuffle off hand in hand in Euroland. Perhaps even before then, if the young get into the habit of voting at General Elections. Patience, young padawan.
Except by then today's young folk will be tomorrow's middle aged folk and will be no more willing to give up their nation than you.
I feel far more affinity for Americans, Australians etc than I do Germans. The idea that Merkel is my Chancellor is as alien as the idea that Trump is my President.
They should throw away the key plus forced surgical castration, without an anaesthetic
Are they any adult male Pakistani men left in Rotherham who AREN'T either in jail for child rape and abuse, or on trial for the same? Who's driving the taxis?
Well, this puts one argument to bed ... twitter.com/Law_and_policy/status/827150102288596994
The UK was always technically sovereign, as the Brexit vote demonstrated.
The issue was whether the people were happy to (in practice) give up more and more control to the EU. "Practical Sovereignty", if you like.
The EU is/was us. It's not a foreign body to which we give something up, but a shared resource to which we collectively delegate that which is common.
No, the EU was far more "them" than "us".
Unless you view French, Dutch, German MEPs, voters, Ministers and Prime Ministers as being "us" and "our" PM/ministers/voters then the EU is not us.
I do.
And that's absolutely fine William. At some point in the future, once all us middle aged folks have croaked, perhaps the UK will join the EU and shuffle off hand in hand in Euroland. Perhaps even before then, if the young get into the habit of voting at General Elections. Patience, young padawan.
Except by then today's young folk will be tomorrow's middle aged folk and will be no more willing to give up their nation than you.
I feel far more affinity for Americans, Australians etc than I do Germans. The idea that Merkel is my Chancellor is as alien as the idea that Trump is my President.
Shhh! I'm trying to be emollient and give our rare and precious Euro-federalist hope. Now you've come stomping in and ruined the effect, you heartless brute *runs off crying*.
If it wasn't sovereign, how could we leave the EU?
Yes, that was a point quite a few of us made quite a few times on here during the referendum campaign when we were repeatedly told that Parliament was not sovereign.
Shall we just say "In an abusive relationship - we could get out but were prevented from doing so."
If it wasn't sovereign, how could we leave the EU?
Indeed. But in many things it was only technically sovereign, not effectively so, as to assert that sovereignty it would first have needed to Leave the EU...
Indeed Parliament being sovereign is akin to an adult being able to live their lives freely under their own roof - it requires having your own roof. If you decide to move from living in your own home where you can say "my house, my rules" to flat-sharing where everyone has a say in the rules then that is a loss of independence. Sure you can regain it by moving out but unless you actually do face the big wide world on your own, you can't say "my house, my rules".
Many of our European neighbours are quite young adults and previously lived in their parents homes [non-democracies] where they got no say in their own rules so don't feel the loss of independence bite like we do. We had long lived on our own so were less keen to agree to share accommodation - let alone have communal funds with some housemates that we knew had major financial issues.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
I see the sun is well over the yardarm in the Orient .
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Unless you view French, Dutch, German MEPs, voters, Ministers and Prime Ministers as being "us" and "our" PM/ministers/voters then the EU is not us.
If the EU can pass by Qualified Majority a law that our Parliament opposes then it is not "us" passing the law.
Interesting. If you applied the same test to Scotland and the UK, a large number of Scots, and not just those voting SNP, would not see English MPs, leaders and parties as "us". I don't think many English see Nicola Sturgeon as "us" either. I would personally find it sad if we are incapable of any kind of partnership on the grounds of others not belonging.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
Unbelievably and gratuitously offensive. Shameful.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
Unbelievably and gratuitously offensive. Shameful.
Mr. Jonnie, I think part of it is the echo chamber of social media.
In the past, different opinions were put up with because you'd be chatting in a pub and didn't fancy a fight, or want to embarrass your friends. Now, chats are online. 'Bad' opinions lead to moderation, muting, blocking, being expelled from groups. Political perspectives have become wrapped up with morality. You're on the same side, or you're wicked.
A differing idea (remember, 'embrace diversity' doesn't necessarily apply to political opinions) is seen more as heresy than a valid but alternative viewpoint.
It's a simplistic, black and white, binary view of things. And, right now, politics is getting more polarised. Shades of the Peloponnesian War. Which lasted a little over a quarter of a century.
The social media echo chamber also makes some opinions socially unacceptable, so the adherents of an orthodoxy get perplexed and enraged when, mystifyingly, they lose votes. How could it happen when *everyone* they know agrees with them?
And then the denigration of disagreement happens. Contempt for the elderly, or the working class. Bloody poor people. Life's losers, what do they know? [It does flow the other way, to an extent, regarding the liberal metropolitan elite].
The effort to persuade* has been replaced by finger-wagging lectures.
*To an extent. I still think the vast, vast majority on both sides of the referendum result are perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, the most divisive of fools are both the most certain and the loudest.
Edited extra bit: the endorsement of political violence has been even more disturbing. It turns out 'Nazi' is a magic word that means someone doesn't deserve to be equal under the law, but is a punching bag for the righteous.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Hypothesises a military coup might be more accurate. Not exactly a criminal matter, still less for English coppers - unless you were referring to President Clinton ?
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
I hope you aren't thinking of doing a us college speaking tour any time soon ;-)
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
I hope you aren't thinking of doing a us college speaking tour any time soon ;-)
Actually, I think that a Sean T college speaking tour would be very entertaining. Delivering lectures on such subjects as "Would you rather your daughter got cancer or feminism?" or "Anne Frank, Failed Author."
Mr. Jonnie, I think part of it is the echo chamber of social media.
In the past, different opinions were put up with because you'd be chatting in a pub and didn't fancy a fight, or want to embarrass your friends. Now, chats are online. 'Bad' opinions lead to moderation, muting, blocking, being expelled from groups. Political perspectives have become wrapped up with morality. You're on the same side, or you're wicked.
A differing idea (remember, 'embrace diversity' doesn't necessarily apply to political opinions) is seen more as heresy than a valid but alternative viewpoint.
It's a simplistic, black and white, binary view of things. And, right now, politics is getting more polarised. Shades of the Peloponnesian War. Which lasted a little over a quarter of a century.
The social media echo chamber also makes some opinions socially unacceptable, so the adherents of an orthodoxy get perplexed and enraged when, mystifyingly, they lose votes. How could it happen when *everyone* they know agrees with them?
And then the denigration of disagreement happens. Contempt for the elderly, or the working class. Bloody poor people. Life's losers, what do they know? [It does flow the other way, to an extent, regarding the liberal metropolitan elite].
The effort to persuade* has been replaced by finger-wagging lectures.
*To an extent. I still think the vast, vast majority on both sides of the referendum result are perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, the most divisive of fools are both the most certain and the loudest.
Edited extra bit: the endorsement of political violence has been even more disturbing. It turns out 'Nazi' is a magic word that means someone doesn't deserve to be equal under the law, but is a punching bag for the righteous.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
I hope you aren't thinking of doing a us college speaking tour any time soon ;-)
Actually, I think that a Sean T college speaking tour would be very entertaining.
is mr foxinsox in the room, or tyson? I remember them both pooh-poohing the Jay report into Rotherham abuse as being full of wild exaggeration.
Well here you go, from that Express article:
"Last year, the NCA said it had engaged with 133 victims and survivors but investigators were confident that Prof Jay was right when she said in her report that the total was around 1,400.
The agency said it was looking at hundreds of potential suspects."
There’s fiction and then there’s the Express......
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
Similarly, although I do wonder how S K Tremayne will be doing in the charts seventy years after he's gone!
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
I hope you aren't thinking of doing a us college speaking tour any time soon ;-)
Actually, I think that a Sean T college speaking tour would be very entertaining. Delivering lectures on such subjects as "Would you rather your daughter got cancer or feminism?" or "Anne Frank, Failed Author."
A sweary hybrid of Hunter S Thompson and P J O'Rourke? What could go wrong?
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
She'll have the last laugh. She'll still be selling in 5, 10, 20 years, when you have fvcked and boozed and snorted your millions away and are living in, er, an attic....
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
The fact that Trump is so off-the-scale, unprecedentedly, outwith-acceptable-parameters bonkers. None of us thought a mature first-world democracy could throw up something like him.
I think you have it the wrong way round, by the way. The wankeroid left put a lot of work into demonstrating against the benign and lovely Margaret Thatcher as if she were the antichrist. Now we have a real antichrist to deal with they can't out-hyperbole what they said about Fatcha, and so the reaction is a weary "we have heard this before".
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
It has been claimed that the USA declined to take the Anne Frank family as refugees so they had to stay in Europe when the Germans invaded.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
It was an Israeli foreign minister, Abba Eban, who liked to joke that "There's no business like Shoah business."
Trump just now - doesn't like NAFTA saying is has been a catastrophe for the US. He is going to strike lots of new trade deals but adding an extra F into the title - free and fair trade
No one can accuse him of hanging around but boy is he a lose cannon
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
Even relatively personal and family history loses its impact. By this time 100 years ago all of my great-grandmothers were widows with young children. While I can empathise, it doesn't really touch me.
Mr. Jonnie, I think part of it is the echo chamber of social media.
In the past, different opinions were put up with because you'd be chatting in a pub and didn't fancy a fight, or want to embarrass your friends. Now, chats are online. 'Bad' opinions lead to moderation, muting, blocking, being expelled from groups. Political perspectives have become wrapped up with morality. You're on the same side, or you're wicked.
A differing idea (remember, 'embrace diversity' doesn't necessarily apply to political opinions) is seen more as heresy than a valid but alternative viewpoint.
It's a simplistic, black and white, binary view of things. And, right now, politics is getting more polarised. Shades of the Peloponnesian War. Which lasted a little over a quarter of a century.
The social media echo chamber also makes some opinions socially unacceptable, so the adherents of an orthodoxy get perplexed and enraged when, mystifyingly, they lose votes. How could it happen when *everyone* they know agrees with them?
And then the denigration of disagreement happens. Contempt for the elderly, or the working class. Bloody poor people. Life's losers, what do they know? [It does flow the other way, to an extent, regarding the liberal metropolitan elite].
The effort to persuade* has been replaced by finger-wagging lectures.
*To an extent. I still think the vast, vast majority on both sides of the referendum result are perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, the most divisive of fools are both the most certain and the loudest.
Edited extra bit: the endorsement of political violence has been even more disturbing. It turns out 'Nazi' is a magic word that means someone doesn't deserve to be equal under the law, but is a punching bag for the righteous.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
It has been claimed that the USA declined to take the Anne Frank family as refugees so they had to stay in Europe when the Germans invaded.
Not sure if this is fake news.
I’ve heard that somewhere. Doesn’t make it true, of course.
EU meeting in Malta today is asking Theresa May to brief them on her meeting with Trump. Is this the same organisation thats wants to punish us for leaving
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Unfortunately, elements of the British Right haven't been averse to such dangerous undemocratic silliness:
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
Why not test the water by writing a treatment for a TV comedy series called העלא ,העלא set in Buchenwald? Let us know how you get on.
Mr. Pong, I've referred to it before, but when at university (did Psychology) one of the most interesting papers was a study done in the early 90s, before gay marriage was a thing.
Homophobes were asked about their views. Naturally, they opposed gay adoption, equal rights, gay marriage etc. But when told gay people opposed gay rights, the homophobes became in favour of them.
As well as being wryly amusing, it also indicated the objection wasn't to policies or equality, it was to the homosexuals themselves.
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Unfortunately, elements of the British Right haven't been averse to such dangerous undemocratic silliness:
But the british right haven't been burinng down universities and launching unprovoked violent attacks on people from the left to prevent them speaking.
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Unfortunately, elements of the British Right haven't been averse to such dangerous undemocratic silliness:
"elements of the British Right" omg, thats hilarious. I can imagine you now desperately trawling through google trying to shore up a dreadful argument.
Politics has got uglier in this country, no doubt. The 2015 demonstrations outside the Conservative Party Conference was beyond anything we have seen for decades.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
I hope you aren't thinking of doing a us college speaking tour any time soon ;-)
Actually, I think that a Sean T college speaking tour would be very entertaining. Delivering lectures on such subjects as "Would you rather your daughter got cancer or feminism?" or "Anne Frank, Failed Author."
Keynote Symposium: LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW FUCKING RICH I AM!
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
EU meeting in Malta today is asking Theresa May to brief them on her meeting with Trump. Is this the same organisation thats wants to punish us for leaving
Pre Clearance for the US at UK airports has been under discussion for several years. It's been going nowhere slowly.
Not sure if this 'news' is just recycled for a positive spin or if genuine movement has been made. I doubt it as it provides no advantage to US citizens.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
It has been claimed that the USA declined to take the Anne Frank family as refugees so they had to stay in Europe when the Germans invaded.
"What eventually happened we all know too well. Other countries started closing their doors and refusing to accept Jewish refugees. Despite hearing this story a hundred times, the version in Eichmann in Jerusalem was new to me. I had always thought of countries as closing their gates to a few prescient people trying to flee Nazi Germany on their own, or to a few stragglers who managed to escape. The truth is on a much greater scale: the Nazis were willing to let every single Jew in Europe leave, they even had entire bureaucracies trying to make it happen – and the rest of the world wouldn’t cooperate. The blood on the hands of the people who wouldn’t let them in is not just that of a few escapees, but the entire six million."
Pre Clearance for the US at UK airports has been under discussion for several years. It's been going nowhere slowly.
Not sure if this 'news' is just recycled for a positive spin or if genuine movement has been made. I doubt it as it provides no advantage to US citizens.
US citizens will also avoid the immigration line when they arrive!
Can I ask, what exactly was the rationale for thinking Paul Nutall was "Labour's nightmare"? Was it ONLY that he had a Northern accent? Do the commentariat really have such a patronising view of Northerners that they thought that would be enough to sway it?
@PeterAlexander: BREAKING: US Treasury Dept easing Obama admin sanctions to allow companies to do transactions with Russia's FSB, successor org to KGB.
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
It has been claimed that the USA declined to take the Anne Frank family as refugees so they had to stay in Europe when the Germans invaded.
"What eventually happened we all know too well. Other countries started closing their doors and refusing to accept Jewish refugees. Despite hearing this story a hundred times, the version in Eichmann in Jerusalem was new to me. I had always thought of countries as closing their gates to a few prescient people trying to flee Nazi Germany on their own, or to a few stragglers who managed to escape. The truth is on a much greater scale: the Nazis were willing to let every single Jew in Europe leave, they even had entire bureaucracies trying to make it happen – and the rest of the world wouldn’t cooperate. The blood on the hands of the people who wouldn’t let them in is not just that of a few escapees, but the entire six million."
I don't think that the Nazis ever intended that the Jews of Eastern Europe should be allowed to emigrate, after WWII began.
Can I ask, what exactly was the rationale for thinking Paul Nutall was "Labour's nightmare"? Was it ONLY that he had a Northern accent? Do the commentariat really have such a patronising view of Northerners that they thought that would be enough to sway it?
My favourite was when I saw some in the media say Stoke was a Northern seat.
Who would have guessed that Paul Nuttall, who has previously let it be understood that he played for Tranmere Rovers and has a doctorate, would have difficulties with basic questions of fact?
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
Unfortunately, elements of the British Right haven't been averse to such dangerous undemocratic silliness:
"elements of the British Right" omg, thats hilarious. I can imagine you now desperately trawling through google trying to shore up a dreadful argument.
Politics has got uglier in this country, no doubt. The 2015 demonstrations outside the Conservative Party Conference was beyond anything we have seen for decades.
Calm down. I didn't 'trawl through' anything, but remembered Hodges' article from when I first read it.
Who would have guessed that Paul Nuttall, who has previously let it be understood that he played for Tranmere Rovers and has a doctorate, would have difficulties with basic questions of fact?
While we're talking about Germany, I'd just like to point out that Cornishh thriller-meister S K Tremayne has two books in the Spiegel bestseller lists this week, STIEFKIND at number 14 and EISIGE SCHWESTERN at number 8.
Both are ahead of the reprint of Anne Frank's DIARY at number 16.
HAHAHAHAHA
Up Yours, ANNE FRANK
LOSER!!
You may be able to hide from the Gestapo, but you can't hide from my success.
A little tasteless.
I'm sure the mods will be along to card me if I have crossed that fine, fine line.
Oh, I laughed, but I felt guilty about doing so.
I laughed and felt guilty as I wrote it.
It is an interesting question: will the Holocaust ever be seen as suitable for humour, and even mockery? I think Yes, and possibly quite soon. Young people just don't have that sombre "reverence" about it that our generation does. In fifty years time it will be ancient history, and treated as such.
In 100 or 200 years it will be largely forgotten.
I'm not saying this is good. I cried the other day over that Holocaust photo of that little girl. It affects me, and deeply. But it won't affect my kids, or their grandkids, anything like as much.
For humour, see Benigni's "Life is Beautiful" Not in the same league as your Anne Frank gag, of course.
Who would have guessed that Paul Nuttall, who has previously let it be understood that he played for Tranmere Rovers and has a doctorate, would have difficulties with basic questions of fact?
That's Lord Professor Nuttall to you.
Point of pedantry, the educated part of the title goes before title/honour etc.
Comments
SeanT is right. If it had been another 5-10 years, it would have been too late.
Unless you view French, Dutch, German MEPs, voters, Ministers and Prime Ministers as being "us" and "our" PM/ministers/voters then the EU is not us.
If the EU can pass by Qualified Majority a law that our Parliament opposes then it is not "us" passing the law.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/other-politics/european-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1263861
The idea that the university is somehow to blame for the actions of idiots who allowed themselves to be provoked into violence by another idiot is absurd. Though of course, Berkeley is a liberal university, so fair game for the right wing trolls.
I feel far more affinity for Americans, Australians etc than I do Germans. The idea that Merkel is my Chancellor is as alien as the idea that Trump is my President.
Many of our European neighbours are quite young adults and previously lived in their parents homes [non-democracies] where they got no say in their own rules so don't feel the loss of independence bite like we do. We had long lived on our own so were less keen to agree to share accommodation - let alone have communal funds with some housemates that we knew had major financial issues.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/02/ex-obama-official-suggests-military-coup-trump/
Old Bill should come knocking. presumably this is a tweet that will be deleted and declared to be misinterpreted.
TBH - something sinister has happened in America (and the UK) - I can't remember violent demonstrations when the Bush family were elected or Major won in 1992 - so what is poisoning/ abusing/ destroying so many people?
And that's why the UK staying in the EU was unsustainable.
https://twitter.com/stuartmillar159/status/827164140510773248
Bet?
In the past, different opinions were put up with because you'd be chatting in a pub and didn't fancy a fight, or want to embarrass your friends. Now, chats are online. 'Bad' opinions lead to moderation, muting, blocking, being expelled from groups. Political perspectives have become wrapped up with morality. You're on the same side, or you're wicked.
A differing idea (remember, 'embrace diversity' doesn't necessarily apply to political opinions) is seen more as heresy than a valid but alternative viewpoint.
It's a simplistic, black and white, binary view of things. And, right now, politics is getting more polarised. Shades of the Peloponnesian War. Which lasted a little over a quarter of a century.
The social media echo chamber also makes some opinions socially unacceptable, so the adherents of an orthodoxy get perplexed and enraged when, mystifyingly, they lose votes. How could it happen when *everyone* they know agrees with them?
And then the denigration of disagreement happens. Contempt for the elderly, or the working class. Bloody poor people. Life's losers, what do they know? [It does flow the other way, to an extent, regarding the liberal metropolitan elite].
The effort to persuade* has been replaced by finger-wagging lectures.
*To an extent. I still think the vast, vast majority on both sides of the referendum result are perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, the most divisive of fools are both the most certain and the loudest.
Edited extra bit: the endorsement of political violence has been even more disturbing. It turns out 'Nazi' is a magic word that means someone doesn't deserve to be equal under the law, but is a punching bag for the righteous.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/milo-and-clodius.html
It demonstrates the cost of properly investigating fraud and the real risk that it is not investigated often enough.
I think you have it the wrong way round, by the way. The wankeroid left put a lot of work into demonstrating against the benign and lovely Margaret Thatcher as if she were the antichrist. Now we have a real antichrist to deal with they can't out-hyperbole what they said about Fatcha, and so the reaction is a weary "we have heard this before".
Not sure if this is fake news.
No one can accuse him of hanging around but boy is he a lose cannon
Those that forget history...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html
Homophobes were asked about their views. Naturally, they opposed gay adoption, equal rights, gay marriage etc. But when told gay people opposed gay rights, the homophobes became in favour of them.
As well as being wryly amusing, it also indicated the objection wasn't to policies or equality, it was to the homosexuals themselves.
Politics has got uglier in this country, no doubt. The 2015 demonstrations outside the Conservative Party Conference was beyond anything we have seen for decades.
Not sure if this 'news' is just recycled for a positive spin or if genuine movement has been made. I doubt it as it provides no advantage to US citizens.
Anyhoo, Nuttall is 10/3 as next Leader out with William Hill
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/g/295788/Next+Leader+To+Leave.html
"What eventually happened we all know too well. Other countries started closing their doors and refusing to accept Jewish refugees. Despite hearing this story a hundred times, the version in Eichmann in Jerusalem was new to me. I had always thought of countries as closing their gates to a few prescient people trying to flee Nazi Germany on their own, or to a few stragglers who managed to escape. The truth is on a much greater scale: the Nazis were willing to let every single Jew in Europe leave, they even had entire bureaucracies trying to make it happen – and the rest of the world wouldn’t cooperate. The blood on the hands of the people who wouldn’t let them in is not just that of a few escapees, but the entire six million."
I jest, of course.
https://www.thamesvalley-pcc.gov.uk/news-and-events/thamesvalley-pcc-news/2017/01/operation-hornet-statement-from-police-and-crime-commissioner/
DAFUQ!
Or something.
So for example it's Professor The Lord Winston.
Or Brigadier The Lord Lovat.
etc etc