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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling background to the PM’s big BREXIT speech

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  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    MTimT said:

    nunu said:

    Why do we need to wait to March now? Supreme Court announce result next week and then straight to Parliament to trigger A50.

    I think she should meet with trump first, gives her some negotiating ammunition.

    Expect to hear an ever more panicky Commission screech ever more insistently and plaintively, but with a growing timbre of self-doubt, that the UK cannot even start trade talks with others until the Brexit deal is done.
    What will they do? Kick us out?
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    So far Mrs Merkel seems to be picking a fight with 2 of her top 3 trading partners.
    Who's Merkel going to get her Intel from - Putin?
    The Belgians ....they have shown they are dead good at this stuff...
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    So far Mrs Merkel seems to be picking a fight with 2 of her top 3 trading partners.
    I agree with Nick.

    Merkel has many cards to play internationally, within Europe, and within Germany. The most successful statesperson since Bismarck. :)
    Wasn't the Bismarck sunk by the Royal Navy?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,922

    “The phrase 'hard Brexit' is part of the wishful thinking that somehow Brexit will be finessed and that there will really be no Brexit.

    But that was always a silly notion. Because a soft Brexit is the worst of all worlds for Britain: not in the European Union but bound by European laws and directives and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Surely, even those who want to remain must find that intolerable.

    So bottom line: the Prime Minister’s position has been consistent, if only people were willing to hear her.

    More importantly, there is no other option.

    Hence, the phrase 'soft Brexit' is really an oxymoron.

    There is only Brexit.

    I am really puzzled by those who say that higher tariffs will lead to lower exports to the EU but a depreciated exchange rate will have no effect. How can that be possible? Both are changing the relative prices in the same way. Indeed, the lower exchange rate produces a broader impetus to exports than the higher tariffs, which only reduce the exports to the EU, a reduction that moreover can be at least partially made up by selling elsewhere.”


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/economic-experts-react-to-theresa-may-brexit-speech-a7531391.html

    The other economists quoted are rather more negative about things.

    In response to the quote... I don't know of anyone who suggests tjat the new exchange rate won't affect exports positively... BBC for instance have been clear that it's both a good and bad thing... Good for exporters... Bad for those who buy imported goods. And if we are placing tariffs in addition on incoming goods... Then doubly bad for consumers.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    So far Mrs Merkel seems to be picking a fight with 2 of her top 3 trading partners.
    I agree with Nick.

    Merkel has many cards to play internationally, within Europe, and within Germany. The most successful statesperson since Bismarck. :)
    Really which cards ?

    She has France and its wobbling. S Europe arent fans and E Europe know she wont be sending many tanks their way soon.

    Within Germany she heads into0 this election weaker than the last
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,155
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pong said:

    I still can't quite believe we've gone and done a Japan.

    Nuts.

    In its defence there's something strangely fascinating about the aesthetic of decline, crumbling hotels in once-thriving spa towns, the last old ladies in a depopulating village performing their local obon dance fewer in number from year to year, until one day their knees can take no more and it is gone forever.
    Is that why you moved to Japan?
    Not really, more like random circumstance, but I genuinely love the dying mountain towns.
    Relatedly one reason I'm doing all this crypto-currency work is so once we End Banking I can buy a formerly-grand bank building and live in it.
    Are you outing yourself as Satoshi Nakamoto? ;)
    Sadly not, if I was I'd already have bought one.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    God I hate you Leavers

    Apple has backed up last year's 20% hike in laptop and computer prices with a sharp rise in app costs.

    The move will mean - for the first time - that there is price parity between the dollar and the pound as an App Store product that used to cost 79p in the UK will now be 99p. US customers pay 99 cents.

    The price shift reflects the fall of up to 20% in the pound versus the dollar since the EU referendum and signals Apple was unwilling to effectively earn less, in value terms, from an app purchased in the UK.

    http://news.sky.com/story/apple-raises-app-store-prices-by-up-to-25-amid-weaker-sterling-10732208

    Your fault for buying Apple. ;)

    This may be of interest:
    http://www.osnews.com/story/29607/US_appeals_court_revives_antitrust_lawsuit_against_Apple
    This quote is often used against large corporations

    "There has grown in the minds of certain groups in this country the idea that just because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with guaranteeing such a profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is supported by neither statute or common law. Neither corporations or individuals have the right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."
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    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited January 2017
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pong said:

    I still can't quite believe we've gone and done a Japan.

    Nuts.

    In its defence there's something strangely fascinating about the aesthetic of decline, crumbling hotels in once-thriving spa towns, the last old ladies in a depopulating village performing their local obon dance fewer in number from year to year, until one day their knees can take no more and it is gone forever.
    Is that why you moved to Japan?
    Not really, more like random circumstance, but I genuinely love the dying mountain towns.
    Relatedly one reason I'm doing all this crypto-currency work is so once we End Banking I can buy a formerly-grand bank building and live in it.
    Are you outing yourself as Satoshi Nakamoto? ;)
    What is the latest thoughts on who he/she/they is.

    There was the guy who the BBC bought into his claims he was a few months ago, but seems to have been a scammer who fooled the BBC "tech expert" with some basic con moves.

    The last I heard was the thinking was it was a guy who died (an expert in cryptography whose name I can't remember) before he would have had chance to see the fruits of his labour.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681
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    If the LD's recovery is driven by a recovery in Remain supporters, and that trend continues, then it will have consequences for which seats the LDs might hope to regain.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953
    @Clown_Car_HQ that is an epic first post!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,414

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Wow. One of the best first posts ever. Welcome indeed. Is it yours?
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,924

    Good reception for TM on Sky from voters in a pub in Basingstoke - both leavers and remainers positive and one female remain voter said she had been inspired by the speech

    People desperately want to believe they are going to be OK after Brexit, whether they are, of course, is an entirely different matter.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Goupillon, nice to see you on :)

    Mr. HQ, welcome to the site.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    Pong said:

    FPT

    glw said:

    You also have to remember in the 80s this was pre- fall of the berlin wall. The EU didn't have all the eastern european countries in it, and no one would have though it would at the time, including Thatcher.

    If the EU still consisted of pretty much only Western European countries, then the view of it might be rather different.

    Exactly.

    If you have a favourite old pub that is taken over by a brewer and modernised (crap food and Sky blaring out round the clock) then you stop going. Only a bloody fool doesn't change their mind when circumstances change.
    THERE ARE NO OTHER PUBS IN OUR VILLAGE.

    We've stormed out at the end of a bad night - pissed - and announced to the bouncer that we're going to open our own, better, pub and actually we don't want to drink ever again (although can we finish our pint first please?) and our new pub will be so much better and just like the good old days and pints will cost 90p and it'll have a jukebox and everything.

    And the bouncer nods his head.
    The really embarrassing bit is that we're the ones who pushed through the brewer takeover and modernisation over the resistance of the rest of the regulars, then announced we hate it because of the changes and then stormed out.
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    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    TNG, Mr Dancer.

    But no mention of the movies?
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,008
    edited January 2017
    Goupillon said:

    Tim Farron latest statement on Theresa May's speech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOKNuER8d5g

    I thought both May's speech and Farron's response were very effective. Both clear and articulate. A big contrast with Corbyn.

    Although I am with Farron on the EU, from a negotiating point of view I think May's approach is the best position to take if you want to make a success of the negotiation. She has obviously had excellent advice on negotiation strategy, and a very good speechwriter. Her presentation is still a bit dodgy with facial tics and not helped by the frog in her throat.
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    Lilly Allen makes a tw@t of herself on tw@tter again...
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: ttps://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    Original for me - love it and the polystyrene rocks.

    IIRC Kirk kissing Uhura was the first inter-racial TV kiss.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    :lol: Welcome to PB, Sir.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: ttps://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    Original for me - love it and the polystyrene rocks.

    IIRC Kirk kissing Uhura was the first inter-racial TV kiss.
    Not quite true, I'm afraid. But close.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Wow. One of the best first posts ever. Welcome indeed. Is it yours?
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    TNG, Mr Dancer.

    But no mention of the movies?
    Don't need a poll for the movies as there is only one possible winner, The Wrath of Khan.
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    Thank you, it is.

    'Jabberwocky' was thr first poem I learned by heart.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Lilly Allen makes a tw@t of herself on tw@tter again...

    Amazingly, I've not been blocked yet - stiff competition at work.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    :lol: Welcome to PB, Sir.
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    jonny83 said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    TNG, Mr Dancer.

    But no mention of the movies?
    Don't need a poll for the movies as there is only one possible winner, The Wrath of Khan.
    Yes, I heartily agree!
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: ttps://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    Original for me - love it and the polystyrene rocks.

    IIRC Kirk kissing Uhura was the first inter-racial TV kiss.
    Not quite true, I'm afraid. But close.
    Who did it earlier?
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,728
    Barnesian said:

    Goupillon said:

    Tim Farron latest statement on Theresa May's speech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOKNuER8d5g

    I thought both May's speech and Farron's response were very effective. Both clear and articulate. A big contrast with Corbyn.

    Although I am with Farron on the EU, from a negotiating point of view I think May's approach is the best position to take if you want to make a success of the negotiation. She has obviously had excellent advice on negotiation strategy, and a very good speechwriter. Her presentation is still a bit dodgy with facial tics and not helped by the frog in her throat.
    Is May's position merely a 'negotiation' one, I wonder?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. 83, some would vote for First Contact, or Voyage Home.

    Mr. Urquhart, reference to the apparently deleted slavery tweet?

    Incidentally, I'd vote for DS9. Best plot arcs, strong recurring secondary cast, some slightly grimmer edges (would Kira justifying killing innocent people to persuade Damar to continue his freedom fighting/terrorism get an airing today?) are all good positives.

    There are the Ferengi, but every series has its weak spots.
  • Options

    Thank you, it is.

    'Jabberwocky' was thr first poem I learned by heart.

    An excellent contribution, sir!

    Poetry to add to the mix of travelogues, box sets, trains, engineering, and ancient history!
  • Options
    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T
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    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Brilliant.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2017

    So far Mrs Merkel seems to be picking a fight with 2 of her top 3 trading partners.
    I agree with Nick.

    Merkel has many cards to play internationally, within Europe, and within Germany. The most successful statesperson since Bismarck. :)
    Wasn't the Bismarck sunk by the Royal Navy?
    Bismarck the man was asked towards the end of his life I believe (he died about 1898 I think) what the most important political fact of the 20th Century was going to be, and he replied "the fact that North America speaks English".
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    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: ttps://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    Original for me - love it and the polystyrene rocks.

    IIRC Kirk kissing Uhura was the first inter-racial TV kiss.
    Not quite true, I'm afraid. But close.
    Who did it earlier?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_and_Uhura's_kiss
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited January 2017
    PlatoSaid said:

    Lilly Allen makes a tw@t of herself on tw@tter again...

    Amazingly, I've not been blocked yet - stiff competition at work.
    Ms Plato, do you follow Laurie Penny Aka @Pennyred? – She’s been rather quiet for a while.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    I notice Corbyn has no relevance to this tale.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    We are the political banshees of PB :wink:
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited January 2017

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lilly Allen makes a tw@t of herself on tw@tter again...

    Amazingly, I've not been blocked yet - stiff competition at work.
    Ms Plato, do you follow Laurie Penny Aka @Pennyred? – She’s been rather quiet for a while.
    She was a (guest) host on the dumb jerks last week.
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    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    So in your thirties then.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    PlatoSaid said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: ttps://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    Original for me - love it and the polystyrene rocks.

    IIRC Kirk kissing Uhura was the first inter-racial TV kiss.
    Six years after Britain. Next they'll be telling us that Edison invented the light bulb.

    You in Your Small Corner was a Granada TV Play of the Week ... [it] follows the arrival of a young man from Jamaica to Brixton, where he is staying with his mother before going up to Cambridge to study for an undergraduate degree. He meets a young woman on the rebound and they become lovers. in 1962 and then there was Emergency Ward 10 in 1964.
    http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/announcements/bfi-discovers-world-first-interracial-tv-kiss
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2017

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    So in your thirties then.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    Hail the Junckerwock! ;)
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    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    So in your thirties then.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    You must be approaching 40 then.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Miss/Mrs HQ, I do apologise.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Barnesian said:

    Goupillon said:

    Tim Farron latest statement on Theresa May's speech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOKNuER8d5g

    I thought both May's speech and Farron's response were very effective. Both clear and articulate. A big contrast with Corbyn.

    Although I am with Farron on the EU, from a negotiating point of view I think May's approach is the best position to take if you want to make a success of the negotiation. She has obviously had excellent advice on negotiation strategy, and a very good speechwriter. Her presentation is still a bit dodgy with facial tics and not helped by the frog in her throat.
    Is May's position merely a 'negotiation' one, I wonder?
    Having dangled the prospect of Total Brexit in front of the Tory right, I can't see her backing down and saying it was all just a ploy. Its full withdrawal and then seeing what sort of FTA can be agreed in the limited time available.

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    Mr. 83, some would vote for First Contact, or Voyage Home.

    Mr. Urquhart, reference to the apparently deleted slavery tweet?

    Incidentally, I'd vote for DS9. Best plot arcs, strong recurring secondary cast, some slightly grimmer edges (would Kira justifying killing innocent people to persuade Damar to continue his freedom fighting/terrorism get an airing today?) are all good positives.

    There are the Ferengi, but every series has its weak spots.

    Voyager with 7 of 9 for me
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    It's witty posters wot have got me through.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    Welcome aboard PB.Com Miss HQ - as mentioned above, twas a cracking grand entrance...
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,728
    welshowl said:

    So far Mrs Merkel seems to be picking a fight with 2 of her top 3 trading partners.
    I agree with Nick.

    Merkel has many cards to play internationally, within Europe, and within Germany. The most successful statesperson since Bismarck. :)
    Wasn't the Bismarck sunk by the Royal Navy?
    Bismarck the man was asked towards the end of his life I believe (he died about 1898 I think) what the most important political fact of the 20th Century was going to be, and he replied "the fact that North America speaks English".
    There's also a (false) story that the US almost chose German as its official language.
    http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2016/04/april-fools-german-as-americas-official-language/
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Pubgoer, ha, she's delightful but doesn't make a series by herself.

    As an aside, I learnt yesterday that Robert Picardo was in Legend (the 1985 film). That was unexpected.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sandpit said:

    I knew I'd seen it before somewhere @AlastairMeeks - Theresa May and the Vivienne Westwood tartan suit...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/theresa-may-rewears-lucky-vivienne-westwood-suit-deliver-key/

    Touché!

    http://tinypic.com/r/k3afwi/9
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    For me, The Next Generation, but Deep Space 9 close behind. You are right not to even include Enterprise.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Always nice to welcome a new member to the fancy, and with a poem no less!

    My favourite Bismarck quote, and, I think, apposite:

    A statesman cannot create anything himself. He must wait and listen until he hears the steps of God sounding through events; then leap up and grasp the hem of his garment.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lilly Allen makes a tw@t of herself on tw@tter again...

    Amazingly, I've not been blocked yet - stiff competition at work.
    Ms Plato, do you follow Laurie Penny Aka @Pennyred? – She’s been rather quiet for a while.
    She blocked me ages ago - I'm never rude on purpose, and very rarely swear - some are just terribly thin skinned when asked to explain their logic/reasoning.

    I find the group list blocking most entertaining - bods I've never heard of blocked me.

    I learned via Twitter that Wliam Shatner detests Buzzfeed so much, he auto-blocks their employees :smiley:
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,100
    MTimT said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    For me, The Next Generation, but Deep Space 9 close behind. You are right not to even include Enterprise.
    TNG for me.

    Mrs J has never watched DS9, and we watched the feature-length opening episode over Christmas. It has not aged well, especially compared to the excellent Babylon 5 opener.

    Than again, Star Trek has always been very poor sci-fi. ;)

    (runs for cover)
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,008

    Barnesian said:

    Goupillon said:

    Tim Farron latest statement on Theresa May's speech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOKNuER8d5g

    I thought both May's speech and Farron's response were very effective. Both clear and articulate. A big contrast with Corbyn.

    Although I am with Farron on the EU, from a negotiating point of view I think May's approach is the best position to take if you want to make a success of the negotiation. She has obviously had excellent advice on negotiation strategy, and a very good speechwriter. Her presentation is still a bit dodgy with facial tics and not helped by the frog in her throat.
    Is May's position merely a 'negotiation' one, I wonder?
    I think it is political as well. It's the only way to hold her government together and keep hold of UKIP leaning Tory voters.

    But from a negotiation point of view, I think asking to stay in the single market and then attempting to negotiate restrictions on freedom of movement and ECJ and contributions risks being talked out of time with WTO looming, and having to capitulate with no fall back (unless you really want to go WTO which I'm sure she doesn't). This way she can attempt to gain as much access to the single market as possible including "frictionless" trade where important but having a fallback that isn't WTO but whatever has been negotiated which won't be zero.

    I think it gives the LibDems a two year window of opportunity (perhaps more) but if she succeeds in getting a deal with most of the benefits of the single market but with control of borders and reduced contributions, then the LibDems will need to find another USP.

    I suspect the economy is going to suffer in the next two years so public services including the NHS are going to be pushed to or beyond breaking point. There will be other potent political issues as well as Brexit.
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    John_M said:

    Always nice to welcome a new member to the fancy, and with a poem no less!

    My favourite Bismarck quote, and, I think, apposite:

    A statesman cannot create anything himself. He must wait and listen until he hears the steps of God sounding through events; then leap up and grasp the hem of his garment.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    Mr. 83, some would vote for First Contact, or Voyage Home.

    Mr. Urquhart, reference to the apparently deleted slavery tweet?

    Incidentally, I'd vote for DS9. Best plot arcs, strong recurring secondary cast, some slightly grimmer edges (would Kira justifying killing innocent people to persuade Damar to continue his freedom fighting/terrorism get an airing today?) are all good positives.

    There are the Ferengi, but every series has its weak spots.

    Voyager with 7 of 9 for me
    Agreed. When I was working 18 hour days at Goldman in the late 90s, I'd get home at 11, and watch an episode or two. It saved my sanity.

    And 7 of 9 was cool :-)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017
    "That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU." - T.May

    What is the difference between customs union and customs agreement ?
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    Back at my desk. See Mrs May has hit a six. Well done madam! A politician who seems to mean what she says and says she intends to deliver what the people voted for. So she wasn't dithering she was preparing.
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    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    You mean you are over 80? :-)

    Congratulations on the poem - one of my favourite films with J Depp..
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    John_M said:

    Always nice to welcome a new member to the fancy, and with a poem no less!

    My favourite Bismarck quote, and, I think, apposite:

    A statesman cannot create anything himself. He must wait and listen until he hears the steps of God sounding through events; then leap up and grasp the hem of his garment.

    I thought that was from Carry On Up The Khyber.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Beware the Junckerwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Tusktusk bird and shun
    The fraumerkelous Mandelsnatch!

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the cleggsome foe he sought -
    So rested he by the Timtim tree,
    And stood awhile in thought

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Junckerwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the sturgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    Un, deux! One, two! and through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    'And hast thou slain the Junckerwock!
    Come to my arms my beamish boy!
    O farageous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas Brexit, and the slithy Tone
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borisgoves,
    And the May wrath outgrabe.

    Clever stuff, Ma'am.

    Perhaps we should have poetic thread headers once in a while.
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    surbiton said:

    "That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU." - T.May

    What is the difference between customs union and customs agreement ?

    We are currently in THE customs union of the EU and bound fully by it. Turkey, for example, is in A customs union with the EU. It can trade freely with EU but is also free to cut other trade deals. All May is saying is we're out of THE customs union but seek to join A customs union.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    MTimT said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    For me, The Next Generation, but Deep Space 9 close behind. You are right not to even include Enterprise.

    Than again, Star Trek has always been very poor sci-fi. ;)

    (runs for cover)
    Almost as bad as Dr Who. B5 once it hit its stride was probably the best.

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    ...and welcome to CCHQ. Super poem...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,414
    John_M said:

    Always nice to welcome a new member to the fancy, and with a poem no less!

    My favourite Bismarck quote, and, I think, apposite:

    A statesman cannot create anything himself. He must wait and listen until he hears the steps of God sounding through events; then leap up and grasp the hem of his garment.

    Very good.

    My favourite was when he was asked on his death bed if he had any regrets and replied "I wish I had drunk more champagne." He was an extraordinary character.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    Welcome and you have certainly dodged a bullet regarding Sean T!
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    MTimT said:

    Not a serious thing at all, but after recent chatter on sci-fi I thought it might be interesting to put up a poll: https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/821375165590343681

    For me, The Next Generation, but Deep Space 9 close behind. You are right not to even include Enterprise.
    TNG for me.

    Mrs J has never watched DS9, and we watched the feature-length opening episode over Christmas. It has not aged well, especially compared to the excellent Babylon 5 opener.

    Than again, Star Trek has always been very poor sci-fi. ;)

    (runs for cover)
    I enjoyed all the ST's except Enterprise. For me the order is

    1= TNG and Voyager - 7 of 9 was stunning
    3 TOS - purely for sentimental reasons
    4 DS9

    I think they compare well with other sci fi series, except Bab 5 where I was hooked until the defeat of the shadows, they should have finished it there
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Next Generation for me, despite too many holodeck episodes, Wes Crusher and Troi. Jean-Luc Picard and Data were outstanding.

    Deep Space Nine had Doctor Julian Bashir and a superfluity of Ferengi (and the Bajorans could be deeply irritating).

    Voyager had too many time paradoxes. And Neelix.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Jessop, judging a race by the first corner can be unwise. From memory, it did take a little while to get going. But then, so did TNG.

    Mr. T, I've only seen odd snippets of Enterprise (including the slap-in-the-face of an ending) but could never get into it. Not seen all episodes of other series, but I have watched large chunks of them.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    felix said:

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    Welcome and you have certainly dodged a bullet regarding Sean T!
    He mentioned me in the same sentence as BDSM sex last night. This was a most unwelcome development.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    Patrick said:

    surbiton said:

    "That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU." - T.May

    What is the difference between customs union and customs agreement ?

    We are currently in THE customs union of the EU and bound fully by it. Turkey, for example, is in A customs union with the EU. It can trade freely with EU but is also free to cut other trade deals. All May is saying is we're out of THE customs union but seek to join A customs union.
    It's a bit more complex than that.

    A customs union means that once a product is inside the zone, it can travel anywhere in the zone without incurring tariffs. There are no 'rules of origin' on products inside the zone.

    So, if we were to enter into a customs union with the EU, and then we entered into a free trade agreement with China, then products could flow from China to us to the EU without incurring a tariff.

    For Turkey this is not a big deal. Of EU states, it borders only Greece, and Greece itself is pretty cut off from the rest of the EU, so there is little likelihood/need to worry about Turkey cutting trade deals with China. It would simply be too much hassle to bring things into Turkey and then re-export them.

    But that isn't necessarily true for us. I suspect a customs union as part of transitional agreements makes sense. But longer-term, it's a harder call.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    JonathanD said:

    Barnesian said:

    Goupillon said:

    Tim Farron latest statement on Theresa May's speech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOKNuER8d5g

    I thought both May's speech and Farron's response were very effective. Both clear and articulate. A big contrast with Corbyn.

    Although I am with Farron on the EU, from a negotiating point of view I think May's approach is the best position to take if you want to make a success of the negotiation. She has obviously had excellent advice on negotiation strategy, and a very good speechwriter. Her presentation is still a bit dodgy with facial tics and not helped by the frog in her throat.
    Is May's position merely a 'negotiation' one, I wonder?
    Having dangled the prospect of Total Brexit in front of the Tory right, I can't see her backing down and saying it was all just a ploy. Its full withdrawal and then seeing what sort of FTA can be agreed in the limited time available.

    No - if the EU offers single market membership with the 3 freedoms she'd probably take it. What she acknowledges is that they have made it clear that the 4th freedom is a red line for them. Fair enough.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    edited January 2017
    Mr. Meeks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Y6SUh8saQ

    Edited extra bit: and you missed off Harry Kim, the second most tedious sci-fi character I think there is (beaten only by Lieutenant Ford in Stargate: Atlantis).
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    "I know my emphasis on striking trade agreements with countries outside Europe has led to questions about whether Britain seeks to remain a member of the EU's Customs Union. And it is true that full Customs Union membership prevents us from negotiating our own comprehensive trade deals. Now, I want Britain to be able to negotiate its own trade agreements. But I also want tariff-free trade with Europe and cross-border trade there to be as frictionless as possible. That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU. Whether that means we must reach a completely new customs agreement, become an associate member of the Customs Union in some way, or remain a signatory to some elements of it, I hold no preconceived position. I have an open mind on how we do it."

    Seems to be the most common sense position.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,414
    surbiton said:

    "That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU." - T.May

    What is the difference between customs union and customs agreement ?

    I remember this being discussed on PB about a week ago. In a customs union we are bound by the terms of the union and its agreement with other countries being obliged to apply a common tariff. In a customs agreement there is no tariff in respect of goods or services generated within the union but if goods are imported here on which we have agreed a different tariff then they would have to be declared if exported to the EU and the appropriate tariff paid. There is a downside of some additional paperwork but there is an upside of being able to negotiate our own tariffs with the rest of the world. If I understood it correctly Turkey has something like this with the EU at the moment.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    Back at my desk. See Mrs May has hit a six.

    Straight through the window of every car manufacturer
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,751
    Oh dear, Mr Dancer has turned the thread into a geekfest.

    Quick - let's start an AV discussion...
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    Welcome and you have certainly dodged a bullet regarding Sean T!
    He mentioned me in the same sentence as BDSM sex last night. This was a most unwelcome development.
    Given your divergent views one can only assume that you were to be the 'receiver' :)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    edited January 2017

    The Next Generation for me, despite too many holodeck episodes, Wes Crusher and Troi.

    My best friend at school, Sam (no relation to PB's Sam!) and I used to slag each other for fancying Tasha Yar (Sam) and Deanna Troi (me!). :lol:

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Dr. Prasannan, your friend was wise.

    Troi was bloody annoying.

    "I shall rend the flesh from your bones and feast upon your heart, Picard!"

    "Captain, I'm sensing... hostility."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Nicola releases huffy statement - NO mention of further referendum.

    Cluck cluck cluck...

    Would you care to have a bet on a second Indy refendum being called within say the next 2 years. Don't think I could manage a grand, but a ton say?
    Called or a Uk govt approved referendum held ?

    Nats call for one every week.
    Formally called for by the Scottish government.
    No bet - they call for one every week.
    How does it go again?

    Cluck cluck cluck...
    Happy to bet on there being a referendum - or that Nippy resigns permanently in protest at May blocking one.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,100

    Mr. Jessop, judging a race by the first corner can be unwise. From memory, it did take a little while to get going. But then, so did TNG.

    (Snip)

    True.

    I did like DS9, but it suffered from the same problem B5 did on TV: it was fairly important to watch them in sequence, something the broadcasters did not necessarily aid. I only got the most out of B5 once a mate loaned me the box set.

    As it was the only Trek Mrs J has never seen, we watched the DS9 opener on Netflix over Chrissy at my parents' house. It was awful.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Back at my desk. See Mrs May has hit a six.

    Straight through the window of every car manufacturer
    if remainers are worried about the auto sector maybe they should have started a bit sooner like say 15 years ago
  • Options

    Oh dear, Mr Dancer has turned the thread into a geekfest.

    Quick - let's start an AV discussion...

    2011:
    No 2 AV 68%
    Yes 2 AV 32%

    :innocent:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953

    Sandpit said:

    I knew I'd seen it before somewhere @AlastairMeeks - Theresa May and the Vivienne Westwood tartan suit...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/theresa-may-rewears-lucky-vivienne-westwood-suit-deliver-key/

    Touché!

    http://tinypic.com/r/k3afwi/9
    :D Truly a suit for any occasion - from a gay wedding to a Prime Ministerial statement on Brexit!
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    "I know my emphasis on striking trade agreements with countries outside Europe has led to questions about whether Britain seeks to remain a member of the EU's Customs Union. And it is true that full Customs Union membership prevents us from negotiating our own comprehensive trade deals. Now, I want Britain to be able to negotiate its own trade agreements. But I also want tariff-free trade with Europe and cross-border trade there to be as frictionless as possible. That means I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries. But I do want us to have a customs agreement with the EU. Whether that means we must reach a completely new customs agreement, become an associate member of the Customs Union in some way, or remain a signatory to some elements of it, I hold no preconceived position. I have an open mind on how we do it."

    Seems to be the most common sense position.

    The most important thing for me is that nothing she said can be explicitly rejected by her counterparties. That said, I think a customs union, however structured, is going be extremely challenging to realise in practice.
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    felix said:

    felix said:

    PB and it's fantastic posters have got me through a horrible year (nowt to do with politics)

    I should declare that I am in fact a person of the female sex, sadly several decades too old for Sean T

    Welcome and you have certainly dodged a bullet regarding Sean T!
    He mentioned me in the same sentence as BDSM sex last night. This was a most unwelcome development.
    Given your divergent views one can only assume that you were to be the 'receiver' :)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsvfofcIE1Q
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Jessop, well, up to you, but I'd say it's worth persevering.

    I agree on the sequence mattering more than for other Trek series because of the longer plot arcs, but that also allows for more in-depth storylines and a less monster-of-the-week approach.
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    wasdwasd Posts: 276

    Mr. Jessop, judging a race by the first corner can be unwise. From memory, it did take a little while to get going. But then, so did TNG.

    (Snip)

    True.

    I did like DS9, but it suffered from the same problem B5 did on TV: it was fairly important to watch them in sequence, something the broadcasters did not necessarily aid. I only got the most out of B5 once a mate loaned me the box set.

    As it was the only Trek Mrs J has never seen, we watched the DS9 opener on Netflix over Chrissy at my parents' house. It was awful.
    The first season and a half of DS9 are something to be endured rather than enjoyed.
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    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Back at my desk. See Mrs May has hit a six.

    Straight through the window of every car manufacturer
    if remainers are worried about the auto sector maybe they should have started a bit sooner like say 15 years ago
    They did:

    https://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/12/1-6-million-cars-roll-off-uk-production-lines-in-first-11-months-as-global-demand-reaches-new-high/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. 83, some would vote for First Contact, or Voyage Home.

    Mr. Urquhart, reference to the apparently deleted slavery tweet?

    Incidentally, I'd vote for DS9. Best plot arcs, strong recurring secondary cast, some slightly grimmer edges (would Kira justifying killing innocent people to persuade Damar to continue his freedom fighting/terrorism get an airing today?) are all good positives.

    There are the Ferengi, but every series has its weak spots.

    Voyager with 7 of 9 for me
    Agreed. When I was working 18 hour days at Goldman in the late 90s, I'd get home at 11, and watch an episode or two. It saved my sanity.

    And 7 of 9 was cool :-)
    7 of 9 was meh. Too blonde. ;)

    Here's a question politics junkies should know without reference to T'Internet; how did the divorce of the actress who plays 7 of 9 (potentially) alter US politics?
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    Mr. Jessop, well, up to you, but I'd say it's worth persevering.

    I agree on the sequence mattering more than for other Trek series because of the longer plot arcs, but that also allows for more in-depth storylines and a less monster-of-the-week approach.

    I must admit I prefer monster of the week. My favourite might be Cause and Effect.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Vlad is also trying to boost trade today:

    "Vladimir Putin: 'our prostitutes are the best in the world, but I doubt Donald Trump would fall for them' "
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Back at my desk. See Mrs May has hit a six.

    Straight through the window of every car manufacturer
    if remainers are worried about the auto sector maybe they should have started a bit sooner like say 15 years ago
    They did:

    https://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/12/1-6-million-cars-roll-off-uk-production-lines-in-first-11-months-as-global-demand-reaches-new-high/
    LOL

    no Richard that was what the industry did by itself, the turnround in fortunes was despite HMG not because of it. In between we had a serial shutdown of UK capacity in the period 1997-2007 to the yells of it doesnt really matter.

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    TGOHF said:

    Vlad is also trying to boost trade today:

    "Vladimir Putin: 'our prostitutes are the best in the world, but I doubt Donald Trump would fall for them' "

    Is Vlad speaking based upon personal experience?
This discussion has been closed.