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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Does anyone have any experience of holidaying in Northern Cyprus. It looks AOK to me but thought I'd ask/....

    I presume you don't fancy a Greek holiday any time soon after that?
    Yes, I went to Southern Cyprus 20 years ago and they said if you go to the North, it makes getting to Greece or Southern Cyprus difficult (assuming they stamp your passport). If you want to look at the north, just go to Nicosia and look over the demarcation zone. The north is obviously less developed than the south. I enjoyed my holiday in Cyprus (south).
    The North is much more beautiful than the South. Until partition, people in the South vacationed in the North or Famagusta, which is now a ghost town on the demarcation line.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.


    This is hypocrisy at work, showing politics is business as usual in the post-Trump world.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,880

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    Option 2? This would be the case where the President of the United States paid prostitutes to wee in a hotel room, yes?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,860
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts to compensate for the overwhelming lack of prosperity.

    The reason I keep banging on about this is, of course, Brexit. Voting for Leave is correlated with being poorer, older, less educated, and "Northern".

    But, going back an even *

    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.
    But the places you compare to the North are prosperous, not poor. And, it's not really like for like to include cities like Prague, Talinn, Bratislava, etc., and their environs, which pull up the overall figures for the countries you mention, while excluding their British equivalent.

    WRT Brexit, most of the South and East Anglia also voted in favour.
    It is if you consider London and its hinterland a law unto itself. It operates and succeeds in a global level. It's wealth masks pathetic performance in the other 60% of the country.

    WRT Brexit, I am talking correlation not binary outcome. The poorer the region, the more likely to vote Brexit.

    Not sure why this is controversial, except perhaps that Brexiters on here may resent being lumped in with the less educated, poorer voters.

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,081


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
  • Options

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    MTimT said:

    The golden shower scene is one allegation too far for me. There was a BBC interview with Trump (tip of the tongue lapse with the female presenter's name) which opened with a discussion of Trump not even shaking hands for fear of germs. It doesn't ring true. If there is a price on his tax returns revealing suitcases of roubles, I'd be interested.

    On impeachment, I'd want to check what the bookies think the word means. Bill Clinton was impeached; Richard Nixon was not: probably the average bookmaker in the street would have it the other way round.

    What is the classic line from 'Dodgeball"? "Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste"

    PS Not something I'd ever imagined that I would be quoting on PB :)
    I think that some Indians consider a glass of one's own fetulence to have health-giving properties.
    Ghandi certainly did.
    Apparently, eating camel excrement helps treat dysentery.
    Faecal transplantion is possibly the best treatment for C Diff. Yes, really.:

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/857917
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    MTimT said:

    The golden shower scene is one allegation too far for me. There was a BBC interview with Trump (tip of the tongue lapse with the female presenter's name) which opened with a discussion of Trump not even shaking hands for fear of germs. It doesn't ring true. If there is a price on his tax returns revealing suitcases of roubles, I'd be interested.

    On impeachment, I'd want to check what the bookies think the word means. Bill Clinton was impeached; Richard Nixon was not: probably the average bookmaker in the street would have it the other way round.

    What is the classic line from 'Dodgeball"? "Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste"

    PS Not something I'd ever imagined that I would be quoting on PB :)
    I think that some Indians consider a glass of one's own fetulence to have health-giving properties.
    Ghandi certainly did.
    Apparently, eating camel excrement helps treat dysentery.
    No shit! :wink:

    Is that dromedary or bactrian?

    One hump or two?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Say such a video appeared, how on earth would you authenticate it?

    Same way they identified the Duchess of Argyll's "headless man" one presumes

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,860


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts to compensate for the overwhelming lack of prosperity.

    The reason I keep banging on about this is, of course, Brexit. Voting for Leave is correlated with being poorer, older, less educated, and "Northern".

    But, going back an even *

    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.


    WRT Brexit, most of the South and East Anglia also voted in favour.
    It is if you consider London and its hinterland a law unto itself. It operates and succeeds in a global level. It's wealth masks pathetic performance in the other 60% of the country.

    WRT Brexit, I am talking correlation not binary outcome. The poorer the region, the more likely to vote Brexit.

    Not sure why this is controversial, except perhaps that Brexiters on here may resent being lumped in with the less educated, poorer voters.

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030

    How could the CIA give a guarantee with Trump appointed people in charge?

    Better for UK Intelligence not to give the names of agents. Just give code names if anything.
    That special deal at the head of the queue is looking extremely shaky , Trump will not like being insulted by these turkeys. When the UK finds the US disarm our Trident and stop passing any info our way.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    malcolmg said:

    How could the CIA give a guarantee with Trump appointed people in charge?

    Better for UK Intelligence not to give the names of agents. Just give code names if anything.
    That special deal at the head of the queue is looking extremely shaky , Trump will not like being insulted by these turkeys. When the UK finds the US disarm our Trident and stop passing any info our way.
    maybe we should call in Eck :-)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:
    Very sad. Immigration is not behind NHS failure. This ignorance explains both Brexit *and* why we cannot reform ourselves.
    Dem foreigners are to blame for all of our ills.

    Isn't that the basic premise of nationalism of all varieties?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,081


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts to compensate for the overwhelming lack of prosperity.

    The reason I keep banging on about this is, of course, Brexit. Voting for Leave is correlated with being poorer, older, less educated, and "Northern".

    But, going back an even *

    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.


    WRT Brexit, most of the South and East Anglia also voted in favour.
    It is if you consider London and its hinterland a law unto itself. It operates and succeeds in a global level. It's wealth masks pathetic performance in the other 60% of the country.

    WRT Brexit, I am talking correlation not binary outcome. The poorer the region, the more likely to vote Brexit.

    Not sure why this is controversial, except perhaps that Brexiters on here may resent being lumped in with the less educated, poorer voters.

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    if London is so rich why do parts of it keep pleading pverty ?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Reminds me of a comment by Michael Flanders.

    "...things like Sir Edward Boyle's Law, for example: the greater the external pressure, the greater the volume of hot air..."

    Was this a deliberate mistake by Flanders? The higher the pressure the lower the volume (neglecting things like temperature)

    It was a joke. Like his translation (at the relevant time) of "no smoke without fire" - nul combustious profumo.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    Didn't they offer to sell some stuff? My point was rather that people seem to be basing what is good and bad on what it achieves.

    I thought Assange and Wikileaks were a deal with the devil back when they were the toast of every progressive. The Russian influence wasn't exactly hard to see then. It was quite clear that while what they published was true, they only published anti-American stuff, and particularly things that benefited Russia. That is what they still are.

    The ends do not justify the means.... this is a very good way to achieve destruction of democracy and checks and balances. Another example -

    1) Obama implemented and got legal backing for the Federal government not implementing laws he didn't like (on immigration). He even got a ruling that it was illegal for the states themselves to try and implement said laws.
    2) Donald Trump will have the power in a few days time to order the FBI etc to not enforce pretty much any law he doesn't like. Stroke of the pen stuff..

    In ancient Rome, it was the Senate and Pompey who caused the end of the Republic - they were so concerned that Ceasar would be elected Consul that they did *anything* to stop him. Which pretty much forced him to cross the Rubicon. Up till the very end, Ceasar had played by their rules.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,860
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts


    WRT Brexit, most of the South and East Anglia also voted in favour.
    It is if you consider London and its hinterland a law unto itself. It operates and succeeds in a global level. It's wealth masks pathetic performance in the other 60% of the country.

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    "See no evil" SeanF.

    Approx. 60pc of the country has the same (give or take) standard of living as the old East Germany.

    That's a sign of terrifying economic mismanagement. By all parties.

    I've said my piece, but until one government wants to tackle our piss poor productivity, skills, and regional economic performance, we will continue to consign a lot of the population to a pretty shitty existence.

    But it looks as if it means shattering heavy misconceptions on both right and left, and perhaps especially with the Brexit crew.

    So I'm not betting on it.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,880
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Reminds me of a comment by Michael Flanders.

    "...things like Sir Edward Boyle's Law, for example: the greater the external pressure, the greater the volume of hot air..."

    Was this a deliberate mistake by Flanders? The higher the pressure the lower the volume (neglecting things like temperature)

    It was a joke. Like his translation (at the relevant time) of "no smoke without fire" - nul combustious profumo.
    Thank you
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts to compensate for the overwhelming lack of prosperity.

    The reason I keep banging on about this is, of course, Brexit. Voting for Leave is correlated with being poorer, older, less educated, and "Northern".

    But, going back an even *

    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.
    :

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    if London is so rich why do parts of it keep pleading pverty ?
    Because they are. Just like all capital cities round the world, there are the insanely rich parts (parts of Lima have pretty much London house prices, for instance), and very very poor parts.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts to compensate for the overwhelming lack of prosperity.

    The reason I keep banging on about this is, of course, Brexit. Voting for Leave is correlated with being poorer, older, less educated, and "Northern".

    But, going back an even *

    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.


    WRT Brexit, most of the South and East Anglia also voted in favour.
    It is if you consider London and its hinterland a law unto itself. It operates and succeeds in a global level. It's wealth masks pathetic performance in the other 60% of the country.

    But it's true.
    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    "See no evil" SeanF.

    Approx. 60pc of the country has the same standard of living as the old East Germany.

    That's a sign of terrifying economic mismanagement. By all parties.
    The history of 21st century and 20th century politics suggests that the Tories always regain power after Labour have spent more than the country can possibly afford. Hence austerity.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Say such a video appeared, how on earth would you authenticate it?

    We are wired to be very good at recognising one another. I would expect most people to identify the real Trump from an identity parade of him, and the five best lookalikes the KGB* could come up with. So if it is high quality and looks like him, it is him. If it's too poor quality to be sure, it's worthless.

    *prob called something else now.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030

    malcolmg said:

    How could the CIA give a guarantee with Trump appointed people in charge?

    Better for UK Intelligence not to give the names of agents. Just give code names if anything.
    That special deal at the head of the queue is looking extremely shaky , Trump will not like being insulted by these turkeys. When the UK finds the US disarm our Trident and stop passing any info our way.
    maybe we should call in Eck :-)
    He has more clue than these turkeys for sure , but having slagged off The Donald I doubt it would be productive. Hard to think what Brexit negotiations will eb liek when you see how our government does negotiations. Calling the US President a lying spying treasonous nogooder is hardly taken from the Guide to Good Negotiations.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    Tim_B said:
    The most fascinating of cases, and one for which numerous theories and names have been put forward over the years. I'm afraid the most likely scenario is that he died in the jump and became lunch for a bear or two, as much as the idea of an old man now living anonymously on a Carribean island appeals to most of us.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
    Someone must have told him about it, and all the other information in the dossier.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    MTimT said:

    The golden shower scene is one allegation too far for me. There was a BBC interview with Trump (tip of the tongue lapse with the female presenter's name) which opened with a discussion of Trump not even shaking hands for fear of germs. It doesn't ring true. If there is a price on his tax returns revealing suitcases of roubles, I'd be interested.

    On impeachment, I'd want to check what the bookies think the word means. Bill Clinton was impeached; Richard Nixon was not: probably the average bookmaker in the street would have it the other way round.

    What is the classic line from 'Dodgeball"? "Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste"

    PS Not something I'd ever imagined that I would be quoting on PB :)
    I think that some Indians consider a glass of one's own fetulence to have health-giving properties.
    Ghandi certainly did.
    Apparently, eating camel excrement helps treat dysentery.
    Faecal transplantion is possibly the best treatment for C Diff. Yes, really.:

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/857917
    The industry refers to it as "crapule treatment"
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    That makes you... deplorable? :-)

    No, it is a very rational decision. One problem in the UK is the lack of such sensible mobility. Apparently, moving 50-100 miles to achieve a better life is absurd, horrible or even a breach of human rights(*)

    (*) I think it was under New Labour that it was suggested that it would be cheaper and better to house refugees/asylum seekers outside London. Edinburgh was suggested, IIRC. The Sots Nats weren't impressed, and the various refugee organisations actually claimed that the right to live in London was part of their human rights (to be near all the others in their national communities....).
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,860


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    Good for you. We need more educated young people to move to places like Newcastle. But you are a minority. And until more people like you decide Newcastle is worth investing in, the net outcome is a continued low productivity economy.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,081
    On the subject of GP appointment systems that was being discussed the other day, my GP surgery has online booking and I appear to be the only person who actually uses it. I wake up in the morning and have my choice of every available appointment that day, hours before the phone lines open. It's pretty great to be honest.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,880


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    If you lived in London you could buy a 2-bed flat on the fifth floor for 200K and you'd have to put up with a 60 minute commute.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    On the subject of GP appointment systems that was being discussed the other day, my GP surgery has online booking and I appear to be the only person who actually uses it. I wake up in the morning and have my choice of every available appointment that day, hours before the phone lines open. It's pretty great to be honest.

    Wales has 'MyHealthOnline'. Appointment booking and repeat prescriptions. Pretty damn good.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    If you want to see what Newcastle looked like in the Seventies, watch Get Carter. There's no comparison with it today.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    That makes you... deplorable? :-)

    No, it is a very rational decision. One problem in the UK is the lack of such sensible mobility. Apparently, moving 50-100 miles to achieve a better life is absurd, horrible or even a breach of human rights(*)

    (*) I think it was under New Labour that it was suggested that it would be cheaper and better to house refugees/asylum seekers outside London. Edinburgh was suggested, IIRC. The Sots Nats weren't impressed, and the various refugee organisations actually claimed that the right to live in London was part of their human rights (to be near all the others in their national communities....).
    I think it was Norman Tebbit who had a pithy little quote about physical mobility.

    Some of the most wasteful money that the government spends is on subsidising housing in central London. It makes no sense at all, they should sell them off and build more social housing in cheaper areas. Spending money on rentals is even worse, as there's no asset involved.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
    Someone must have told him about it, and all the other information in the dossier.
    Sure, someone told about it (and presumably a credible source) but was it overtly or covertly approved? we don't know.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Urine good form with the puns today, TSE.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    If you want to see what Newcastle looked like in the Seventies, watch Get Carter. There's no comparison with it today.
    Get Carter was 1969 wasn't it?

    Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads was in the Seventies though. Worth noting that much of Britain was also pretty run down and grotty, including Docklands at the time.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
    Someone must have told him about it, and all the other information in the dossier.
    Double agents have a tendency to be Triple agents, voluntarily or not. The Russians have had a long history of playing that kind of game
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851

    Sean_F said:


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    If you want to see what Newcastle looked like in the Seventies, watch Get Carter. There's no comparison with it today.
    Get Carter was 1969 wasn't it?

    Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads was in the Seventies though. Worth noting that much of Britain was also pretty run down and grotty, including Docklands at the time.
    The book (which is actually set in Doncaster). The film was 1971.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    In Swindon, we are proud of Miss Clunt's achievements.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-38622372
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
    Someone must have told him about it, and all the other information in the dossier.
    Double agents have a tendency to be Triple agents, voluntarily or not. The Russians have had a long history of playing that kind of game
    It wouldn't surprise me if the Russians deliberately leaked that the tape exists.

    Now that the Donald has denied it, the existence of the tape is kryptonite. I the tape doesn't exist speculation will continue indefinitely.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472
    edited January 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    To be honest the story reminds me of one involving a former UK Prime Minister and a rocking horse.

    If nothing else the tape would be worth 10s of millions of dollars.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    Damn you Man Utd.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Does anyone else find the following interesting -

    1) Information stolen from the DNC/Hillary Clinton was published to influence the American election. This was done by Russian intelligence. This is bad.
    2) Information has been provided by Russian intelligence to a private spook outfit, paid by the opponents of Donald Trump, to influence American politics. This is good.

    I don't think Russian Intelligence has voluntarily provided any information to the private spook outfit paid by Trump Republican and Democrat opponents.
    I thought that's where Steele got his info from, his contacts in Moscow?
    His contacts are working as double agents tbough. If Russia wanted to leak about Golden Showers they would do so. Steele just knows of the video of the incident.

    Regarding Trumps germophobia, I don't think he was under the golden shower, just supposedly observing it, so not a bar.
    Someone must have told him about it, and all the other information in the dossier.
    Double agents have a tendency to be Triple agents, voluntarily or not. The Russians have had a long history of playing that kind of game
    It wouldn't surprise me if the Russians deliberately leaked that the tape exists.

    Now that the Donald has denied it, the existence of the tape is kryptonite. I the tape doesn't exist speculation will continue indefinitely.
    Probably why Buzzfeed shouldn't have published the dossier in the first place.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,626
    edited January 2017

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts
    But it's true.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    "See no evil" SeanF.

    Approx. 60pc of the country has the same (give or take) standard of living as the old East Germany.
    I think you are pushing your comparisons with Eastern Europe a liitle far, Mr G.

    The comparison with the former East Germany seems to be truer of France than the UK, for example. On PPP figures:

    image


  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    I have to say I was surprised that the grab em was the only thing they had. I really thought that was just going to be the opening salvo, get Trump to say that was unacceptable but 10 years ago and then have something much more recent and worse.

    We know the media planned to run that video months in advance (I believe they dug it out during Rio Olympics).
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    On toic

    A split with Melania in 2017 at 16/1 is reasonable value considering the megalomanic egotistical pussy grabbers past behaviour.

    The PP speech buzzword bingo has Make America Great Again at 6/4 and Russia at 5/1 as well as China at 6/1 and Obamacare at 16/1 which are each worth a flutter.

    Golden Shower at 250/1 too. Only worth spending a penny on...
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472
    Sandpit said:


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    That makes you... deplorable? :-)

    No, it is a very rational decision. One problem in the UK is the lack of such sensible mobility. Apparently, moving 50-100 miles to achieve a better life is absurd, horrible or even a breach of human rights(*)

    (*) I think it was under New Labour that it was suggested that it would be cheaper and better to house refugees/asylum seekers outside London. Edinburgh was suggested, IIRC. The Sots Nats weren't impressed, and the various refugee organisations actually claimed that the right to live in London was part of their human rights (to be near all the others in their national communities....).
    I think it was Norman Tebbit who had a pithy little quote about physical mobility.

    Some of the most wasteful money that the government spends is on subsidising housing in central London. It makes no sense at all, they should sell them off and build more social housing in cheaper areas. Spending money on rentals is even worse, as there's no asset involved.
    What got to me was that there are parts of this country where houses have been abandoned, left to fall to ruin for the lack of people to live in them.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    I thought liberals wanted prostitution legalised? What's he done wrong?

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,024
    Sean_F said:



    If you exclude capital cities, and the most prosperous regions, from countries, you get lower overall numbers for GDP per head.

    France is notably worse without Greater Paris; Holland is notably worse without Greater Amsterdam; Italy is notably worse without Lombardy and Venezia; Spain is notably worse without Madrid and Catalonia; and so on.

    Which is also why all the richest countries in the world are city states.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    I quite enjoy betting on tommorow being a Monday so I've taken the 1-25 for the £50 or so I had in my Ladbrokes account.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,351
    edited January 2017
    Anecdote department - did three hours with a team of 10 for the County election in Stapleford, which is a largely WWC part of a division that used to be LibDem but is now probably Tory-leaning and a 3-cornered marginal. Met a few Kippers, only two of whom had voted before, as well as an amiable LibDem candidate (dressed as ObiWan as he was chilling after an all-day party), but generally the Labour vote seemed very solid, though not increasing.

    If generalisable to places like Stoke, this would support the theory that Labour is plateauing in WWC areas but probably not plummeting further. But it's an anecdote.

    Incidentally, the NHS came up a lot - Brexit rarely, nothing else whatever.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914

    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    I have to say I was surprised that the grab em was the only thing they had. I really thought that was just going to be the opening salvo, get Trump to say that was unacceptable but 10 years ago and then have something much more recent and worse.

    We know the media planned to run that video months in advance (I believe they dug it out during Rio Olympics).
    I was quite surprised there wasn't more, given Trump was a brash businessman rather than a lifelong politician with extensive media training. He'd talked about running for President since the 1980s though, so he was obviously savvy enough, behind the facade, to keep things straight.

    TBH I was expecting a string of dodgy comments and posssibly a hitherto-unknown mistress or two, to emerge out of the woodwork during the campaign.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,314
    Essexit said:

    Urine good form with the puns today, TSE.

    All these puns are taking the piss.

    We're an absolute shower.

    I'll get my coat...

    Have a good week everyone.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    Pulpstar said:

    I quite enjoy betting on tommorow being a Monday so I've taken the 1-25 for the £50 or so I had in my Ladbrokes account.

    I'd love to walk into a shop with £250k or so for that bet, see if they'd let someone put serious cash on it. Doubt it somehow.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Dr. Foxinsox, the only one I've backed is 'heal the wounds'. Trump used it in his victory speech and he's very repetitive.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts
    But it's true.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have a standard of living equivalent to other prosperous countries, but below the wealthiest areas of Europe. That's nothing more than a truism.

    "See no evil" SeanF.

    Approx. 60pc of the country has the same (give or take) standard of living as the old East Germany.
    I think you are pushing your comparisons with Eastern Europe a liitle far, Mr G.

    The comparison with the former East Germany seems to be truer of France than the UK, for example. On PPP figures:

    image


    On first glance I was surprised how relatively wealthy Iceland is.

    I guess if Reykjavik was isolated it would be very dark blue while the rest of iceland would be dark pink.

    Funny how maps shape perceptions.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    viewcode said:


    If I was giving advice to anyone under the age of 40 in, for eg, Newcastle, I'd say emigrate.

    Have you even been to Newcastle in say, the last 10 years?
    Yes. In a former job I had the privilege to travel across most of the UK, and especially the less well-off parts. I like Newcastle a lot.

    In my current job, I travel across Europe, including Central and East Europe.

    But my claims are made on economic statistics rather than personal anecdote.
    I only ask because I am 24 years old and I moved from Solihull in the West Midlands to Newcastle and decided to stay. Yes I could earn more elsewhere but I live 20 minutes river-side walk/5 minute cycle from a beautiful city centre in a brand new 3-bedroom house that only costs 150k. There's plenty of jobs and plenty to do and see. Why would I want to live elsewhere?
    If you lived in London you could buy a 2-bed flat on the fifth floor for 200K and you'd have to put up with a 60 minute commute.
    He'll be magically richer, live longer and have better quality friends though.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    F1: Claire Williams reckons there'll be a Bottas announcement next week.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914

    F1: Claire Williams reckons there'll be a Bottas announcement next week.

    Hurry up Mercedes and Williams, the price of my flight to Bahrain keeps rising!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    I thought liberals wanted prostitution legalised? What's he done wrong?

    I was surprised to learn that, bar a handful of counties, it's illegal to buy or sell sex in the USA.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Mr. Sandpit, I'll be amused if Sainz gets the seat.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914

    Mr. Sandpit, I'll be amused if Sainz gets the seat.

    I'll be £100 poorer!

    Anyway, Sainz is too young for a top top drive, and Red Bull have him in a cast iron contract for at least three more seasons I think, so he isn't going anywhere.
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    Hunt next to resign from cabinet? - About to sell his 48% share in his education company and pocket £15 million.

    Really he cannot stay in post can he in view of the NHS crisis
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Mr. Sandpit, by coincidence, I'd be about that much richer :D

    I disagree on Sainz being too young, but agree he isn't going to get it. Ninety-nine percent Bottas, 1% Wehrlein.

    Anyway, I must be off.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,092
    GBP heading below $1.20 but nothing too apocalyptic so far.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    Andrew Neil vs Max Mosley, from this morning.

    https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/820605058895081472
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    GBP heading below $1.20 but nothing too apocalyptic so far.

    https://twitter.com/peterhoskinstv/status/820698118564048897
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    @Sandpit - I watched that interview and I was surprised the BBC allowed Neil to do it given his newspaper background. Glad they did let him do it, though, he gave Mosley a good going over.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    edited January 2017
    tlg86 said:

    @Sandpit - I watched that interview and I was surprised the BBC allowed Neil to do it given his newspaper background. Glad they did let him do it, though, he gave Mosley a good going over.

    Neil was completely right that Mosley has a vendetta against the press. He only ever took an interest after he got caught, quite literally, with his pants down.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited January 2017

    Hunt next to resign from cabinet? - About to sell his 48% share in his education company and pocket £15 million.

    Really he cannot stay in post can he in view of the NHS crisis

    Well, he can but the key observation might be that Number 10 and not the DoH weighed in on GP opening hours. Is Jeremy Hunt being sidelined ?

    10/1 with Shadsy but the minister who is shortening is Philip Hammond -- in to 6/1 from 8s.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pong said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT:
    I had to log off but nobody disproved my contention that for living standards, Eastern Europe (perhaps I should

    https://www.aeaweb.org/webcasts/2017/brexit.php

    Places like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, the Baltic States are now very prosperous.
    Yes, they have done very

    But both are still far short of the best Western European standards of living. We should aspire to better.
    Parts of the North are very well-heeled, such as Cheshire, North and East Yorkshire, and Leeds. But, other cities and districts are depressed.
    But sadly not enough parts
    But it's true.
    Why are you trying to deny the simple claim I made? The standard of living in many of our regions, is equivalent to that of the best of the old Eastern European states.

    Are you somehow invested in the flawed economic model that has delivered pathetic performance to our "North"? They have gone nowhere in years. No wonder they voted Brexit.
    Because your claim is merely that the poorest parts of the UK have

    "See no evil" SeanF.

    Approx. 60pc of the country has the same (give or take) standard of living as the old East Germany.
    I think you are pushing your comparisons with Eastern Europe a liitle far, Mr G.

    The comparison with the former East Germany seems to be truer of France than the UK, for example. On PPP figures:

    image


    On first glance I was surprised how relatively wealthy Iceland is.

    I guess if Reykjavik was isolated it would be very dark blue while the rest of iceland would be dark pink.

    Funny how maps shape perceptions.
    It is PPP corrected, so Icelands notoriously high prices must bring it down.

    I am a little surprised how pink Finland ex Helsinki strip is.

    Central Europe is the place to be.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851
    Scott_P said:

    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

    I'm sure that's correct.
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    Hunt next to resign from cabinet? - About to sell his 48% share in his education company and pocket £15 million.

    Really he cannot stay in post can he in view of the NHS crisis

    Well, he can but the key observation might be that Number 10 and not the DoH weighed in on GP opening hours. Is Jeremy Hunt being sidelined ?

    10/1 with Shadsy but the minister who is shortening is Philip Hammond -- in to 6/1 from 8s.
    Well I hope he makes an announcement that he feels duty bound to step down following his windfall and wish the PM and his successor well. It would show he has got political nous
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/telepolitics/status/820694316599414785

    Shared sovereignty with Ireland? That'd go down well!
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Possibly, like me, they ignore the ethnicity parts of official forms :). Yes, I'm a rebel. #rockandroll
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    Scott_P said:

    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

    That can hardly be controversial. We can add longer working lives to less job security and fewer public services. But that's what people voted for.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MitchBenn: Downing Street says Brexit may cause the pound to undergo a "market correction".

    Much as the Titanic underwent a "buoyancy correction".
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,024
    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
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    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.

    I imagine a lot of Singaporeans have dual nationality and the UK is a good place to come for a few years to build your CV and expertise.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    John_M said:

    Possibly, like me, they ignore the ethnicity parts of official forms :). Yes, I'm a rebel. #rockandroll
    Yes, but the question was about nationality rather than ethnicity. I would assume that the majority of the unknowns are probably British, as the employer has to check NI numbers and visas for foreign nationals.
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    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    These go-getting types have heard tell of a 'New' Singapore?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    Scott_P said:

    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

    That can hardly be controversial. We can add longer working lives to less job security and fewer public services. But that's what people voted for.

    Oh FFS make your minds up

    one minute were all going to be replaced by robots bar the two people will work and earn gazillions

    next minute we;re all dying because no-one will look after us

    maybe well just get more efficient and we'll move people to where the work is.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

    That can hardly be controversial. We can add longer working lives to less job security and fewer public services. But that's what people voted for.

    Oh FFS make your minds up

    one minute were all going to be replaced by robots bar the two people will work and earn gazillions

    next minute we;re all dying because no-one will look after us

    maybe well just get more efficient and we'll move people to where the work is.

    We do that already. It's called London.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    I think it is self decalred nationality, rather than ethnicity. Many oversras born may declare as British. Around 35% of NHS doctors trained overseas, and it must be a significant percentage of nurses too.

    I have worked with a couple of Singaporean doctors over the years. Generally they come for a couple of years of subspecialist training.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    Mauritius may well be second.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sandpit said:

    Does anyone else think that if there were a video of Trump in a room with hookers, we'd have seen it by now? The Democrats (and some Republicans) spent millions trying to find stuff on him, and all they dug up was some off-guard laddish audio from more than a decade ago - and a lot of unsubstantiated gossip.

    I don'think just "in a room with hookers" really cuts it; look at what we know for certain about JFK's and Bill Clinton's sex lives while in office. It would have to be footage of him in action doing something pretty hardcore. Also bear in mind that the POTUS is rather well placed to have pretty much anyone in the world quietly killed. If I had the evidence, I might decide to keep very, very quiet about it.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    Probably mostly junior medics that studied in UK, or at the other end of the scale senior specialists working part time when not on Harley St.
    Edit: Dr @foxinsoxuk's comment about sub-specialists is also good, there might not be enough cases to see of your specialism in a small city state like Singapore.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    Scott_P said:

    A hard Brexit with deep cuts to immigration would force Britons into longer working lives in order to maintain a sustainable ratio of workers and pensioners, according to modelling conducted for the Guardian.

    Rises in the state pension age are already anticipated as a result of increased life expectancy and large numbers of baby boomers retiring. But further delays to pension payments will be necessary if current levels of immigration, which sustains the country’s old age dependency ratio, are not maintained, the Oxford university work indicates.

    “The message from Brexit is: if you don’t want immigrants, you’re going to have to work longer,” said Prof Sarah Harper, director of the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing and chair of the UK government’s Foresight Review on Ageing Societies. “That’s how the sums work.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

    That can hardly be controversial. We can add longer working lives to less job security and fewer public services. But that's what people voted for.

    Oh FFS make your minds up

    one minute were all going to be replaced by robots bar the two people will work and earn gazillions

    next minute we;re all dying because no-one will look after us

    maybe well just get more efficient and we'll move people to where the work is.

    We do that already. It's called London.

    which you left
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    Mauritius may well be second.
    Lithuania too. it has half the population of Singapore.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,749
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:
    As a percentage of population, Ireland is first, and Singapore second.

    Does anyone other than me think that is a bit strange, what with Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world on any measure.
    I was visiting my Dad in hospital. The return bus had several Singaporean medical students on board. I suspect they like studying abroad for the breadth of experience you get from a larger population base and as such they end up in the NHS headcount.
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