Based on events since last June, I can only conclude that the Brexit vote has unhinged some of our academics, presumably because they feel it threatens their funding.
I genuinely think it has had that effect on some people, and Trump's victory has had a similar effect in America. There are people I used to follow on Twitter who are serious academics who had started posting quite barmy conspiracy nonsense, I stopped listening.
It seems to me that some people are used to people like them always "winning", no matter what party actually won the election it was a party that coveted their support and was filled with people like them. Brexit and Trump are a victory for people who have been politically excluded for a long time, and our "betters" are not taking that very well.
Yes. Brexit and Trump's win have dismayed a lot of people who thought that history was inevitably marching in the direction they favoured.
Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.
I the guardian report on the Oxford on later retirement is total nonsense. If no migration for 5 years then....disaster.
Even a rock hard brexit wouldn't mean no migration & even Nigel Farages of this world don't want zero migration they just want ability of the state to be able to choose who & for how long.
The media / academics are embarrassing themselves with nonsense stuff. Modelling the problem with zero migration is what you expect from Oxford poly not Oxford uni, but then we also having Oxford physists making fools of themselves over claims of hate crimes by politicians making speeches.
This is where the Brexiteers are likely to come unstuck, when immigration doesn't shift downwards noticeably at all. People will then wonder what all the hassle was about.
I suspect a lot of people on work visas will not be labelled immigrants post-Brexit.
Personally, I suspect that net immigration really should end up well below current levels - but where exactly it will go, and whether the much-vaunted 100,000 target will be met, I would be loathe to predict. You may well be right about those on temporary work visas (the way imported agricultural labour, however much of that is still allowed, is liable to be structured after Brexit,) and the PM might yet be persuaded to exempt university students, although last I read about that it was suggested she wasn't keen on the idea.
Regardless, I reckon that quite a lot of the furore about immigration will die off once we leave the EU. There are several contributory factors toward immigration scepticism, one of these being the lack of any effective control over who comes into the country from the rest of the EU. Once that is dealt with, it should calm things down a good deal.
One way to ensure that people "feel" that we have border controls is to make sure it takes us at least 3 hours at our air and sea ports when we come in. Then we will be satisfied.
We could have McDonalds, Starbucks inside the Passport hall.
Based on events since last June, I can only conclude that the Brexit vote has unhinged some of our academics, presumably because they feel it threatens their funding.
I genuinely think it has had that effect on some people, and Trump's victory has had a similar effect in America. There are people I used to follow on Twitter who are serious academics who had started posting quite barmy conspiracy nonsense, I stopped listening.
It seems to me that some people are used to people like them always "winning", no matter what party actually won the election it was a party that coveted their support and was filled with people like them. Brexit and Trump are a victory for people who have been politically excluded for a long time, and our "betters" are not taking that very well.
Yes. Brexit and Trump's win have dismayed a lot of people who thought that history was inevitably marching in the direction they favoured.
Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.
He could be the first in history who will never achieve 50%.
I the guardian report on the Oxford on later retirement is total nonsense. If no migration for 5 years then....disaster.
Even a rock hard brexit wouldn't mean no migration & even Nigel Farages of this world don't want zero migration they just want ability of the state to be able to choose who & for how long.
The media / academics are embarrassing themselves with nonsense stuff. Modelling the problem with zero migration is what you expect from Oxford poly not Oxford uni, but then we also having Oxford physists making fools of themselves over claims of hate crimes by politicians making speeches.
This is where the Brexiteers are likely to come unstuck, when immigration doesn't shift downwards noticeably at all. People will then wonder what all the hassle was about.
My forecast is rather different: we will have negative net migration in the next five years.
I have changed my view on this. I assumed before the vote that Brexit wouldn't change immigration levels. I now realise governments can significantly reduce immigration simply by being unpleasant to would be migrants
Has anybody worked out how much more UK Border would cost in terms of extra manpower ?
I don't think it takes much manpower for the government to make immigrants feel unwelcome. It's a poor form of "control" however. The most useful and mobile immigrants will be put off the most.
It doesn't matter in the Brexit paradigm. We don't want foreigners and this is how we can have fewer of them.
Because immigrants don't use public services or get old and everyone on the Empire Windrush went back to the West Indies after they stopped working.
....
We have full employment and an ageing population. When we cut immigration - especially for young EU citizens who would only have come for a few years and tend not to use public services as much as Brits - it will mean those who remain having to work longer until they can retire. It's hardly brain surgery.
We have high employment because the government has pumped over a trillion quid of borrowed money into the economy during the last decade. Not to mention the near trillion quid of household borrowing which was pumped into the economy in the decade before that.
Its easy to create lots of jobs in shops, restaurants, hotels and the like when you do that.
And the previous generations of immigrants didn't use much public services for the first few years. Then they got older.
We have had high employment for longer than 10 years. And EU immigration in the 21st century is not the same as immigration from the Caribbean in the 1950s and 1960s. But whichever way you look at it we have an ageing population, the vast majority of which is made up of people born in the UK. To support them, we need people of working age. If we cannot bring people in, those that are here already must work longer to do it and have less retirement time themselves.
We had a rather severe unemployment problem only a few years ago and when the next recession arrives we'll have plenty of unemployed again then.
We were also told that immigration from Eastern Europe wouldn't bring any demands on schooling. And then it did.
The bottom line is we all need to create as least as much wealth as we consume during our lives. Simply adding more people doesn't change that. On the contrary if the extra people are low skilled or if by simply being here they have a negative effect on productivity all they're doing is creating a human Ponzi scheme.
None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
I the guardian report on the Oxford on later retirement is total nonsense. If no migration for 5 years then....disaster.
Even a rock hard brexit wouldn't mean no migration & even Nigel Farages of this world don't want zero migration they just want ability of the state to be able to choose who & for how long.
The media / academics are embarrassing themselves with nonsense stuff. Modelling the problem with zero migration is what you expect from Oxford poly not Oxford uni, but then we also having Oxford physists making fools of themselves over claims of hate crimes by politicians making speeches.
This is where the Brexiteers are likely to come unstuck, when immigration doesn't shift downwards noticeably at all. People will then wonder what all the hassle was about.
I suspect a lot of people on work visas will not be labelled immigrants post-Brexit.
Personally, I suspect that net immigration really should end up well below current levels - but where exactly it will go, and whether the much-vaunted 100,000 target will be met, I would be loathe to predict. You may well be right about those on temporary work visas (the way imported agricultural labour, however much of that is still allowed, is liable to be structured after Brexit,) and the PM might yet be persuaded to exempt university students, although last I read about that it was suggested she wasn't keen on the idea.
Regardless, I reckon that quite a lot of the furore about immigration will die off once we leave the EU. There are several contributory factors toward immigration scepticism, one of these being the lack of any effective control over who comes into the country from the rest of the EU. Once that is dealt with, it should calm things down a good deal.
One way to ensure that people "feel" that we have border controls is to make sure it takes us at least 3 hours at our air and sea ports when we come in. Then we will be satisfied.
We could have McDonalds, Starbucks inside the Passport hall.
???
Does every other country that isn't in the EU make inbound travellers wait three or more hours to show their passports?
Yes. Brexit and Trump's win have dismayed a lot of people who thought that history was inevitably marching in the direction they favoured.
I think it's a form of culture shock, it's not that their side lost that upsets some people so much, but that their assumptions about the nature of society are wrong. The people they don't like, and assumed were powerless, are more numerous and more powerful than they thought. And instead of having to move to another country to experience culture shock they got to feel it overnight and right at home, which is even more disturbing.
Certainly. It's very disorientating to discover that the Coalition of the Ascendant is so much hot air.
We have high employment because the government has pumped over a trillion quid of borrowed money into the economy during the last decade. Not to mention the near trillion quid of household borrowing which was pumped into the economy in the decade before that.
Its easy to create lots of jobs in shops, restaurants, hotels and the like when you do that.
And the previous generations of immigrants didn't use much public services for the first few years. Then they got older.
We have had high employment for longer than 10 years. And EU immigration in the 21st century is not the same as immigration from the Caribbean in the 1950s and 1960s. But whichever way you look at it we have an ageing population, the vast majority of which is made up of people born in the UK. To support them, we need people of working age. If we cannot bring people in, those that are here already must work longer to do it and have less retirement time themselves.
We had a rather severe unemployment problem only a few years ago and when the next recession arrives we'll have plenty of unemployed again then.
We were also told that immigration from Eastern Europe wouldn't bring any demands on schooling. And then it did.
The bottom line is we all need to create as least as much wealth as we consume during our lives. Simply adding more people doesn't change that. On the contrary if the extra people are low skilled or if by simply being here they have a negative effect on productivity all they're doing is creating a human Ponzi scheme.
None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
I the guardian report on the Oxford on later retirement is total nonsense. If no migration for 5 years then....disaster.
Even a rock hard brexit wouldn't mean no migration & even Nigel Farages of this world don't want zero migration they just want ability of the state to be able to choose who & for how long.
The media / academics are embarrassing themselves with nonsense stuff. Modelling the problem with zero migration is what you expect from Oxford poly not Oxford uni, but then we also having Oxford physists making fools of themselves over claims of hate crimes by politicians making speeches.
This is where the Brexiteers are likely to come unstuck, when immigration doesn't shift downwards noticeably at all. People will then wonder what all the hassle was about.
My forecast is rather different: we will have negative net migration in the next five years.
I have changed my view on this. I assumed before the vote that Brexit wouldn't change immigration levels. I now realise governments can significantly reduce immigration simply by being unpleasant to would be migrants
Has anybody worked out how much more UK Border would cost in terms of extra manpower ?
I don't think it takes much manpower for the government to make immigrants feel unwelcome. It's a poor form of "control" however. The most useful and mobile immigrants will be put off the most.
It doesn't matter in the Brexit paradigm. We don't want foreigners and this is how we can have fewer of them.
My wife and I have had to get Canadian ETA's at a cost of 7 dollars each.
When we went to our sons wedding in Vancouver in June 2015 no visas or ETa"s were required
Assume we will look at some kind of visa charge, in fact I think Yvette Cooper called for them last year.
Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.
Donald Trump fools some of the people all the time, but not yet all the people some of the time. Unfortunately the majority that recognise a charlatan when they see one, have a lower propensity to vote.
We have high employment because the government has pumped over a trillion quid of borrowed money into the economy during the last decade. Not to mention the near trillion quid of household borrowing which was pumped into the economy in the decade before that.
Its easy to create lots of jobs in shops, restaurants, hotels and the like when you do that.
And the previous generations of immigrants didn't use much public services for the first few years. Then they got older.
We have had high employment for longer than 10 years. And EU immigration in the 21st century is not the same as immigration from the Caribbean in the 1950s and 1960s. But whichever way you look at it we have an ageing population, the vast majority of which is made up of people born in the UK. To support them, we need people of working age. If we cannot bring people in, those that are here already must work longer to do it and have less retirement time themselves.
We had a rather severe unemployment problem only a few years ago and when the next recession arrives we'll have plenty of unemployed again then.
We were also told that immigration from Eastern Europe wouldn't bring any demands on schooling. And then it did.
The bottom line is we all need to create as least as much wealth as we consume during our lives. Simply adding more people doesn't change that. On the contrary if the extra people are low skilled or if by simply being here they have a negative effect on productivity all they're doing is creating a human Ponzi scheme.
None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.
Donald Trump fools some of the people all the time, but not yet all the people some of the time. Unfortunately the majority that recognise a charlatan when they see one, have a lower propensity to vote.
Trump may just change that. It could be his greatest achievement.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.
And of course none of these EU immigrants are entitled to benefits or use public services.
Oh wait ...
To take one example which was in the news recently:
' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.
Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.
... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
Yet. We haven't left.
This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
Leavers crowing that the negative consequences of Brexit haven't happened make me smile - 7 months down the line and we haven't even clarified who can press the start button yet!
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
My wife and I have had to get Canadian ETA's at a cost of 7 dollars each.
When we went to our sons wedding in Vancouver in June 2015 no visas or ETa"s were required
Assume we will look at some kind of visa charge, in fact I think Yvette Cooper called for them last year.
AFAIK Canada doesn't currently aim to reduce the number of foreigners circulating in the country. That is certainly an objective for Brexit. It's why we collectively voted to Leave the EU and it's why Theresa May is happy to sacrifice the Single Market. Originally, I thought immigration would not be much affected by Brexit beyond the inevitable recession caused by it, because the reasons for the immigration don't change. The same reasons why David Cameron and Theresa May so massively failed to meet their previous 100 000 target. But that was me not "getting" Brexit. The point of Brexit is to have less. Especially less foreigners. Prosperity, openness and global connections are the discredited Blair/Cameron policies.
It's not mainly about red tape. The government just has to let it be known that foreigners aren't welcome in the UK. Far from being valued members of the community, the government writes them letters telling them they are merely negotiating capital. People will then say, "why would I want to go to a country like that?" It will have an effect.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
Correction - the hard core remainers are much unhappier than 12 months ago. Everyone else is just fine.
One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army
Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
Although Trump can't have things both ways:
1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us, and 2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
None of which means that Brexitrealise that's where they're heading.
And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.
And of course none of these EU immigrants are entitled to benefits or use public services.
Oh wait ...
To take one example which was in the news recently:
' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.
Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.
... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
Based on events since last June, I can only conclude that the Brexit vote has unhinged some of our academics, presumably because they feel it threatens their funding.
I genuinely think it has had that effect on some people, and Trump's victory has had a similar effect in America. There are people I used to follow on Twitter who are serious academics who had started posting quite barmy conspiracy nonsense, I stopped listening.
It seems to me that some people are used to people like them always "winning", no matter what party actually won the election it was a party that coveted their support and was filled with people like them. Brexit and Trump are a victory for people who have been politically excluded for a long time, and our "betters" are not taking that very well.
Trump won more votes than Hillary among the wealthiest in the US; while she beat him among the poorest.
Leave won because of huge support for it among pensioners - who have seen their incomes rise over 13% in the last decade, while those of working age have seen theirs fall.
The pensioners today are one of the most selfish people in history. From birth, they have had privileges no other generation had until then. They were the first beneficiaries of the Welfare State.
The triple lock was no more than a bribe.
Young people should try voting.
The pensioners parents also voted, but they chose to vote for things that benefitted the next generation.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
Correction - the hard core remainers are much unhappier than 12 months ago. Everyone else is just fine.
One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
You have to be quite old to remember those days. I'd probably reiterate what I said earlier; there was a heady combination of deregulation and the advent of computers and their associated networks.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army
Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
Although Trump can't have things both ways:
1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us, and 2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
For the Yanks, the issue has always been C3. They want the Europeans to spend more on defence (and more effectively as well, which is a bit rich coming from them), but they don't want a parallel command structure. Of course, if you're a federalist, then that's exactly what you want. Hence, a little bit of tension.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
I can agree with you that Brexit is affecting society for some but leaving is not going away and we should all now try to get the best for our Country, but staying in the EU is not an option
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
Yet. We haven't left.
This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.
Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
I'm not wrong. You've spent months bitching and moaning about a vote that went against you. Just grow up.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.
And of course none of these EU immigrants are entitled to benefits or use public services.
Oh wait ...
To take one example which was in the news recently:
' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.
Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.
... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
I do not believe they are representative.
Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.
Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.
The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.
They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.
The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.
And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
Yet. We haven't left.
This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.
Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
Yet. We haven't left.
So like King Lear, you're still promising us the terrors of the Earth, even though you don't know what they are.
What part of "sterling is down by 20%" don't you understand?
Currencies fluctuate in value up and down. Since I don't bet on currencies, I'm not sure why this should concern me.
If you are unaware of the implications of a 20% fall in sterling for the UK economy then the reason you voted Leave is becoming clearer by the minute.
It is positive and negative but inflation will be the worry. However I remember the day the BOE increased interest rates to 15% and we survived. Currencies rise and fall and the big plus today is the unprecedented low interest rates
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
Yet. We haven't left.
This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.
Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
Actually I didn't endure the Blitz. As a Remain voter, I think I am safe in saying Brexit will be crap, but not THAT crap! This time, it's a voted for in Britain crapness. It's all ours. Germany is not involved.
Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army
Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
Although Trump can't have things both ways:
1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us, and 2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
For the Yanks, the issue has always been C3. They want the Europeans to spend more on defence (and more effectively as well, which is a bit rich coming from them), but they don't want a parallel command structure. Of course, if you're a federalist, then that's exactly what you want. Hence, a little bit of tension.
This is one of these areas where I - as am Americophile - don't have a lot of sympathy with the US. Make a choice: we want to be the arsenal of the Western world, and we'll pay the price, but dominate the choices. Or, we're happy to let it become a multipolar world, and save money but lose influence.
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
I do not believe they are representative.
Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.
Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.
The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.
They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.
The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.
And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
A couple of Premier League footballers.
As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.
most of your postings have this same negative theme
It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army
Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
Although Trump can't have things both ways:
1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us, and 2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
For the Yanks, the issue has always been C3. They want the Europeans to spend more on defence (and more effectively as well, which is a bit rich coming from them), but they don't want a parallel command structure. Of course, if you're a federalist, then that's exactly what you want. Hence, a little bit of tension.
This is one of these areas where I - as am Americophile - don't have a lot of sympathy with the US. Make a choice: we want to be the arsenal of the Western world, and we'll pay the price, but dominate the choices. Or, we're happy to let it become a multipolar world, and save money but lose influence.
I'm not sure Trump speaks for America on this. NATO is, at best, a US success story; at worst an irrelevance. There's no reason for it to tear it up.
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
I'm not wrong. You've spent months bitching and moaning about a vote that went against you. Just grow up.
Salaries abroad are now 20% higher.
Once we have proper migration data, the brexit-brain-drain story will be all over the news.
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
I do not believe they are representative.
Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.
Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.
The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.
They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.
The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.
And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
A couple of Premier League footballers.
As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.
But is anyone saying we should restrict Premier League footballers ?
While you are saying you want unlimited immigration of ANYONE and the more the better.
For example do you think that the thousands of East European Roma who have moved to Rotherham in recent years are net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
You guys brought it on mate!
I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
Correction - the hard core remainers are much unhappier than 12 months ago. Everyone else is just fine.
One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
You have to be quite old to remember those days. I'd probably reiterate what I said earlier; there was a heady combination of deregulation and the advent of computers and their associated networks.
What there was in the 1980s were all those lovely North Sea oil revenues coming on stream.
An increase in exports, a flourishing stock market, a flood of foreign investment and a booming tourist industry seem to be the implications thus far.
Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.
Dude: imports are up. Unsecured personal borrowing is growing at 11% annual clip. We have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, with a quadruple deficits: personal, corporate, government, and current account.
Our economy is insanely vulnerable. Not because of Brexit, but when the shit hits the fan because we're all borrowing and spending on new iPhones, you know what's going to get the blame, right?
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
Quite. I said before that he will prove to be an agent of European integration. He'll get his bilateral deal - with the EU.
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
He is anti EU but pro the Nation state.
Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
Quoted in German from a conversation held in English, Trump predicted Britain’s exit from the EU will be a success and portrayed the EU as an instrument of German domination with the purpose of beating the U.S. in international trade. For that reason, Trump said, he’s fairly indifferent whether the EU breaks up or stays together, according to Bild.
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
He is anti EU but pro the Nation state.
Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
You would think so but we live in extraordinary times - who knows anything anymore
An increase in exports, a flourishing stock market, a flood of foreign investment and a booming tourist industry seem to be the implications thus far.
Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.
Dude: imports are up. Unsecured personal borrowing is growing at 11% annual clip. We have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, with a quadruple deficits: personal, corporate, government, and current account.
Our economy is insanely vulnerable. Not because of Brexit, but when the shit hits the fan because we're all borrowing and spending on new iPhones, you know what's going to get the blame, right?
Brexit.
Personally I'm amazed that the whole 'I consume therefore I am' economy has kept going so long.
I remember thinking back in 2007-8 "People will have to see sense now and start living within their means".
A trillion pounds of government borrowing and with the current account deficit at record levels later ...
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
I do not believe they are representative.
Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.
Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.
The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.
They have therefore beenall the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.
And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
A couple of Premier League footballers.
As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.
But is anyone saying we should restrict Premier League footballers ?
While you are saying you want unlimited immigration of ANYONE and the more the better.
For example do you think that the thousands of East European Roma who have moved to Rotherham in recent years are net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
I am saying Brexit will mean people working longer before they can retire. That's all. I accept completely that we have voted for that. I doubt Roma make any contribution to the economy. But most EU immigrants are not Roma. I think it's a shame we are going to prevent them coming here to make a positive contribution, but my side lost. We are where we are.
Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
He is anti EU but pro the Nation state.
Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
The question is whether he's saying random stuff or whether he has an agenda. You never know with Trump.
Mr Trump added: "Countries want their own identity and the UK wanted its own identity, but I do think if they hadn't been forced to take in all of the refugees than you wouldn't have a Brexit."
lol
He's spot on and completely wrong at the same time.
Britain has hardly taken any refugees in the grand scheme of things - but the *fear* of the hoards of migrants - as depicted in Farages poster - most definitely did win the referndum for leave.
The world has improved immeasurably since I was born (I don't think there's a link!), this is the best time to be alive in all of human history and it'll only get better for us in the aggregate.
Comments
We could have McDonalds, Starbucks inside the Passport hall.
It doesn't matter in the Brexit paradigm. We don't want foreigners and this is how we can have fewer of them.
Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
Does every other country that isn't in the EU make inbound travellers wait three or more hours to show their passports?
If not, then why should we?
Strange.
Does anybody know why sky binned Kevin Cadle from presenting their coverage? His replacement is bloody useless and damn annoying.
Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.
To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
Yes, the destruction of the UK is their prime motivation.
FFS.
When we went to our sons wedding in Vancouver in June 2015 no visas or ETa"s were required
Assume we will look at some kind of visa charge, in fact I think Yvette Cooper called for them last year.
Sterling falls more than 20% since the Independence day!
You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.
The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
Oh wait ...
To take one example which was in the news recently:
' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.
Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.
... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38486212
' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.
Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.
... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.
David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38510314
Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
https://twitter.com/Queen_Europe/status/818591264358760448
It's not mainly about red tape. The government just has to let it be known that foreigners aren't welcome in the UK. Far from being valued members of the community, the government writes them letters telling them they are merely negotiating capital. People will then say, "why would I want to go to a country like that?" It will have an effect.
Of such calculations are currency values made.
One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us,
and
2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
1) Create more wealth
2) Live within your means
3) Increase your savings ratio
It is the inability / unwillingness of British people / government to do these things which puts downward pressure on sterling's value.
Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.
The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.
They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.
The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.
And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/donald-trump-interview-brexit-uk-trade-deal-theresa-may-phthbjsmw
Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.
As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.
Once we have proper migration data, the brexit-brain-drain story will be all over the news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/15/labours-best-hope-next-election-propped-snp-len-mccluskey-says/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
While you are saying you want unlimited immigration of ANYONE and the more the better.
For example do you think that the thousands of East European Roma who have moved to Rotherham in recent years are net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
Our economy is insanely vulnerable. Not because of Brexit, but when the shit hits the fan because we're all borrowing and spending on new iPhones, you know what's going to get the blame, right?
Brexit.
Quoted in German from a conversation held in English, Trump predicted Britain’s exit from the EU will be a success and portrayed the EU as an instrument of German domination with the purpose of beating the U.S. in international trade. For that reason, Trump said, he’s fairly indifferent whether the EU breaks up or stays together, according to Bild.
Keep going on like this until everyone is so depressed that they slit their wrists.
Nobody left alive to care one way or another. Sorted.
Meanwhile, for those still not keen on imminent death, here's a public information message from the Ministry for Positive Thinking:
Donald Trump says UK 'doing great' after Brexit vote
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631832
I remember thinking back in 2007-8 "People will have to see sense now and start living within their means".
A trillion pounds of government borrowing and with the current account deficit at record levels later ...
Mr Trump added: "Countries want their own identity and the UK wanted its own identity, but I do think if they hadn't been forced to take in all of the refugees than you wouldn't have a Brexit."
lol
He's spot on and completely wrong at the same time.
Britain has hardly taken any refugees in the grand scheme of things - but the *fear* of the hoards of migrants - as depicted in Farages poster - most definitely did win the referndum for leave.
That was worth ~5% at least, IMO.
The world has improved immeasurably since I was born (I don't think there's a link!), this is the best time to be alive in all of human history and it'll only get better for us in the aggregate.
I agree with richard,the rotherham example is what is happening where I live .