LOL this^^^^ is soooooques, Islamic clothing etc. It's interesting that German migrants are second only to eastern europeans in suddenly decided to move to the uk en masse, maybe it's the "new" Germans, and this might increase if Merkel starts to persecute Muslims in order to get re-elected.
Im proud the UK allows Muslim women to wear the burqa or the niqab and I hope that those in continental Europe who do not want to uncover use EU free movement while they still can and migrate here.
Aren't burqas and niqabs sexist? I mean the men don't have to wear them?
No niqabs and burkas are not sexist and in Islam men and women are not the same/equal, we are different and in rights, responsibilites, dress code etc this is recognised. It's western ideology that promotes the myth that we are the same. In fact in Islam it's strictly forbidden for men to imitate women and vice versa, it's a sin.
Men do have a dress code in Islam: Beards, garments must be above the ankles, thobe/qamis/djellaba
Yes they are vile, and deeply sexist, they will be banned in the UK, as they are being banned across Europe. We will gradually make it impossible for you to practise your repulsive faith and then you will have to leave.
Do you see yourself as Islamophobic?
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
Okay... But if you accepted the Wikipedia definition for now... Would you feel you come inder that category? My reason for asking is explained in anither post...
Wikipedia is not an authority on anything. It is a bloody user edited website.
OK, use this, from the online OED, which presumably is an authority on definitions:
Islamophobia NOUN
[mass noun] Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.
A suspected terrorist who used British benefit moneyto help carry out the Paris and Brussels outrages was detained by police months earlier but then allowed to go free, it can be revealed.
Mohamed Abrini – who was dubbed The Man in the Hat – travelled from Syria to Birmingham last July in order to collect £3,000 from Isil sympathisers.
Upon his return to Belgium he was arrested and questioned by detectives who also seized his mobile phone containing photographs of British landmarks including Old Trafford and Birmingham's Bullring Shopping Centre.
No niqabs and burkas are not sexist and in Islam men and women are not the same/equal etc, we are different and in right's, responsibilites, dress code etc this is recognised. It's western ideology that promotes the myth that we are the same. In fact in Islam it's strictly forbidden for men to imitate women and vice versa, it's a sin.
Men do have a dress code in Islam: Beards, garments must be above the ankles, thobe/qamis/djellaba
"Is it not the Will of Allah (He who should be exalted!) that we are all born stark, raving naked?"
- Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
you can mock, but the will of Allah swt is to cover ourselves as commanded in Quran and Sunnah.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Still a bullshit definition written by a pinko liberal. A phobia has always been an irrational fear. Redefining that word for Islam is just another way that Muslims gave become a protected class in the west.
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
What Patrick Leigh Fermor found in Germany was liberalism in retreat with disastrous consequences to follow.
"Wikipedia defines" Exactly. What the texting generation believe because words have been devalued. A Nazi - someone you disagree with. A racist = someone who looked at you funny. It's worse than murder = a word causing offence.
A phobia has always been an irrational fear.
They all seem to be grammarphobic - an irrational fear of learning to do joined-up writing.
Would you accept an Oxford dictionary definition?
"Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force."
The Channel 4 programme about diverse British Muslims living together, sounds interesting. Worth noting that nearly half of British Muslims never go to Mosque. Many are completely secular, and my Iranian barbar loathes the clerics.
Which is why we need to promote secularisation of Islam in Europe. From all of the polls we can see around 25-30% of Muslims will never integrate into British or European society. We need to find a way of nudging them back to Muslim countries. Clamping down on benefits for non-english speakers, banking halal, banning the burka etc...
'Clamping down' on things that do no real harm will just create more extremism (though I agree that both halal and kosher should be addressed - a a minimum with labelling, if not outright banning).
Better to sell our values, and to allow them to be sold. That means that schooling needs to be addressed.
And where there is conflict between tradition of immigrant communities and members of that community, we back the individual, not the community. Too often at the moment we're doing the opposite.
We say our culture is better, our values are better. I'm not convinced banning the burka is in line with the values we espouse.
As I said, the polling has constantly showed 25-30% of Muslims have no will to integrate into British society. They cannot be sold on our way of life, so why not try and make sure the 70-75% are nudged towards secularism and the rest leave over time. Being a hard line Muslim should not be possible in Europe by the end of 2020, if anyone feels the need to practice it there is a part of the world where it is acceptable. The report showed just what kind of inequalities we've been putting up with.
My concern is that banning the burka will drive many of the 70-75% into the 20-25%, making the whole thing messier and harder to do.
We need to look at the next generation as well; not doing so will just worsen the problem.
Still a bullshit definition written by a pinko liberal. A phobia has always been an irrational fear. Redefining that word for Islam is just another way that Muslims gave become a protected class in the west.
Okay... But OED says extreme or irrational fear or aversion. From the late 18th century apparently.
Mr. Jessop, that's possibly. But it's also the case that by slow degrees of tolerating intolerance we now have a de facto Islamic blasphemy law in this country.
The Channel 4 programme about diverse British Muslims living together, sounds interesting. Worth noting that nearly half of British Muslims never go to Mosque. Many are completely secular, and my Iranian barbar loathes the clerics.
Which is why we need to promote secularisation of Islam in Europe. From all of the polls we can see around 25-30% of Muslims will never integrate into British or European society. We need to find a way of nudging them back to Muslim countries. Clamping down on benefits for non-english speakers, banking halal, banning the burka etc...
'Clamping down' on things that do no real harm will just create more extremism (though I agree that both halal and kosher should be addressed - a a minimum with labelling, if not outright banning).
Better to sell our values, and to allow them to be sold. That means that schooling needs to be addressed.
And where there is conflict between tradition of immigrant communities and members of that community, we back the individual, not the community. Too often at the moment we're doing the opposite.
We say our culture is better, our values are better. I'm not convinced banning the burka is in line with the values we espouse.
As I said, the polling has constantly showed 25-30% of Muslims have no will to integrate into British society. They cannot be sold on our way of life, so why not try and make sure the 70-75% are nudged towards secularism and the rest leave over time. Being a hard line Muslim should not be possible in Europe by the end of 2020, if anyone feels the need to practice it there is a part of the world where it is acceptable. The report showed just what kind of inequalities we've been putting up with.
My concern is that banning the burka will drive many of the 70-75% into the 20-25%, making the whole thing messier and harder to do.
We need to look at the next generation as well; not doing so will just worsen the problem.
It's getting worse already, whatever we're doing isn't working. We need to face up to the fact that Islam in the west is becoming more militant, not less and that the only reasonable way to avoid a bloody confrontation in the future is to ensure those who are militant are not able to easily stay here as they can at the moment.
The government has accepted an amended version of Labour’s motion calling for a debate on their Brexit plan. One catch for Remainers: the government’s amendment calls for Article 50 to be triggered by the end of March. Essentially what Peter Bone called for last week. So there will be a vote on triggering Article 50 tomorrow while the judges are still debating it in the Supreme Court, and then an almighty argument about what details the government is actually going to divulge. Well played by the Tories…
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
Islamism has been a catastrophe everywhere, socially, politically and economically. The idea that Islam is the perfect religion and Mohammmad the perfect man is manifestly absurd.
I used to have Astraphobia until well into my teens! But since then, happily, I rather like watching thunderstorms (from the safety of indoors, natch!), especially at night.
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
Islamism has been a catastrophe everywhere, socially, politically and economically. The idea that Islam is the perfect religion and Mohammmad the perfect man is manifestly absurd.
What Patrick Leigh Fermor found in Germany was liberalism in retreat with disastrous consequences to follow.
Of course ditching our values and militant groups are both threats, and we need to guard against both. But clearly in the Middle East it's not a retreat from political liberalism that is the big problem but a fast spreading violent interpretation of Islam.
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
What Patrick Leigh Fermor found in Germany was liberalism in retreat with disastrous consequences to follow.
The retreat from liberalism is directly linked to Islamic migration to Europe. People see Islam as a threat and liberal tolerance of it has driven people to alternatives, people like myself and SeanT who are pretty liberal on the whole.
Dr. Prasannan, in the Three Kingdoms period of Ancient China, Liu Bei (later King of... Shu, I think) was having dinner with Cao Cao (then the most powerful man in China) when the latter raised the notion of a plot against him.
Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks in fright, for he knew about the plot. Cao Cao was suspicious, but Liu Bei blamed his fear on the thunder, saying even Confucius* was scared of such things, which allayed Cao Cao's concerns.
*Might have been Lao Tze, it's difficult remembering everything in a million word mega-novel
No niqabs and burkas are not sexist and in Islam men and women are not the same/equal etc, we are different and in right's, responsibilites, dress code etc this is recognised. It's western ideology that promotes the myth that we are the same. In fact in Islam it's strictly forbidden for men to imitate women and vice versa, it's a sin.
Men do have a dress code in Islam: Beards, garments must be above the ankles, thobe/qamis/djellaba
"Is it not the Will of Allah (He who should be exalted!) that we are all born stark, raving naked?"
- Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
you can mock, but the will of Allah swt is to cover ourselves as commanded in Quran and Sunnah.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
Jesus (Issa) is recognised as a Prophet in Islam. Probably the best book on the theology of the three Abrahamic religions and their cross-pollination is Karen Armstrong's "A History of God", though as an ex Catholic Nun I think she fails to understand Protestant Non-Conformism.
No niqabs and burkas are not sexist and in Islam men and women are not the same/equal etc, we are different and in right's, responsibilites, dress code etc this is recognised. It's western ideology that promotes the myth that we are the same. In fact in Islam it's strictly forbidden for men to imitate women and vice versa, it's a sin.
Men do have a dress code in Islam: Beards, garments must be above the ankles, thobe/qamis/djellaba
"Is it not the Will of Allah (He who should be exalted!) that we are all born stark, raving naked?"
- Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
you can mock, but the will of Allah swt is to cover ourselves as commanded in Quran and Sunnah.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
Islam teaches that all babies are born Muslims.
Why do you use all those transliterated Arabic words? Would any meaning be lost if you wrote "God" instead of "Allah"? I'm sure you will answer "no", so why do it?
Same question regarding "praise be to God" instead of "alhamdulillah", "divine destiny" instead of "qadr", and "the temporal world" instead of "this dunya". Is there something so weak about the English language that makes it significantly less capable than Arabic of expressing important religious notions?
And why do you call Britain a "land of the kafirs", when 60% of people here identify as Christians, and unless I'm mistaken, Christians aren't called "kafirs" in the Koran?
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
Islam teaches that all babies are born Muslims.
Why do you use all those transliterated Arabic words? Would any meaning be lost if you wrote "God" instead of "Allah"? I'm sure you will answer "no", so why do it?
Same question regarding "praise be to God" instead of "alhamdulillah", "divine destiny" instead of "qadr", and "the temporal world" instead of "this dunya". Is there something so pathetic about the English language that makes it incapable of expressing important religious notions?
And why do you call Britain a "land of the kafirs", when 60% of people here identify as Christians, and unless I'm mistaken, Christians aren't called "kafirs" in the Koran?
No niqabs and burkas are not sexist and in Islam men and women are not the same/equal etc, we are different and in right's, responsibilites, dress code etc this is recognised. It's western ideology that promotes the myth that we are the same. In fact in Islam it's strictly forbidden for men to imitate women and vice versa, it's a sin.
Men do have a dress code in Islam: Beards, garments must be above the ankles, thobe/qamis/djellaba
"Is it not the Will of Allah (He who should be exalted!) that we are all born stark, raving naked?"
- Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
you can mock, but the will of Allah swt is to cover ourselves as commanded in Quran and Sunnah.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
The government has accepted an amended version of Labour’s motion calling for a debate on their Brexit plan. One catch for Remainers: the government’s amendment calls for Article 50 to be triggered by the end of March. Essentially what Peter Bone called for last week. So there will be a vote on triggering Article 50 tomorrow while the judges are still debating it in the Supreme Court, and then an almighty argument about what details the government is actually going to divulge. Well played by the Tories…
As trolls go, I find Pinkrose quite informative - certainly makes a change from Scott n' Paste. I don't agree with her (if indeed her identity is as stated), but I do feel she comes from a radically different and therefore interesting point of view.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
As trolls go, I find Pinkrose quite informative - certainly makes a change from Scott n' Paste. I don't agree with her (if indeed her identity is as stated), but I do feel she comes from a radically different and therefore interesting point of view.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
I think religions naturally evolve, adapt and can be pushed in one direction or another. You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
LOL MI5 is dat you yeah?
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam.
"Xtians" ???
Do you mean Christians?
Can you not say the word? Are you like an actor not able to say "Macbeth"?
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam.
You've been brainwashed. Out of interest, what's your view on FGM? Have you volunteered?
''Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam. ''
Quite honestly this stuff would embarrass JK Rowling.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
I think religions naturally evolve, adapt and can be pushed in one direction or another. You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
The reason some religions reformed or secularised was because of age or because of flexibility. Islam is uniquely inflexible. The word of God doesn't bend so the Koran doesn't bend. To change the Koran is literal blasphemy and punishable by death.
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
LOL MI5 is dat you yeah?
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
Many Muslims seem to be, shall we say, "phobic" towards non-Muslims (or even apostates within their own faith).
Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam.
Or in English, that before the Day of Judgement Jesus will return, holding the Koran, and he will defeat the Antichrist. Al-Masih ad-Dajjal = "False Messiah" = "Anti-Christ".
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
I think religions naturally evolve, adapt and can be pushed in one direction or another. You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
The reason some religions reformed or secularised was because of age or because of flexibility. Islam is uniquely inflexible. The word of God doesn't bend so the Koran doesn't bend. To change the Koran is literal blasphemy and punishable by death.
You can find Christian Biblical literalists. You can find Muslim traditions with a more interpretive stance, like Sufism. There is nothing uniquely inflexible about Islam: there are un-uniquely inflexible religionists of all types all over.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
I think religions naturally evolve, adapt and can be pushed in one direction or another. You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
The reason some religions reformed or secularised was because of age or because of flexibility. Islam is uniquely inflexible. The word of God doesn't bend so the Koran doesn't bend. To change the Koran is literal blasphemy and punishable by death.
Uniquely inflexible? So why are there all those different splits in Islam? Different practices? Hell a five minute google will find you Muslims who say it's fine to drink alcohol.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
For many Muslims (though not all) that's right.
A couple of decades ago I read all of the bible. Afterwards I started reading the Quran, but I stopped halfway through because it alarmed me. The bible is full of contradictions (especially when you include the New Testament). Every time someone says 'this verse says homosexuals/women/walnuts are evil,' you can counter: 'aha! This verse says the opposite!'
I found far fewer contradictions in the Quran. As a whole, or at least the half I read, it was both enlightening and chilling. Though I admit that as I only read half, and only touched on the hadith, I might have missed a great deal.
I can see how it might be easier to be a Muslim fundamentalist than a Christian one. Though I'd profess to be a scholar on neither.
It would actually be interesting to read both again if I had the time; the Internet has altered the way people interact with Holy texts to a certain extent.
Are you sure the will of Allah is entirely on your side? I wonder if him and the Prophet are secretly having a laugh at your funny dresses and creepy beards, as most of you seem to have ended up living in the worst parts of Bradford.
lol you bring out all the cliches
Bradford? Nah I live in Bush (Shepherd's Bush). My family live in the North West of England and I visit them regularly, but ive never been to Bradford. My husband and I have lovely holidays in beautiful Algeria (his homeland) though, Muslims we are diverse...who knew?
If Islam is so wonderful surely you would want to be surrounded entirely by other Muslim people in a happy Muslim country, why would you want to be in some ghetto, in a land of unbelievers, surrounded by heathens, many of whom cordially dislike you?
It is very odd behaviour, Methinks you aren't quite as Muslim as you say.
Me personally, I am white, English, European and a convert to Islam alhamdulillah, so England is my "homeland", but anyway where we live in this Dunya is down to the Qadr of Allah swt.
As a Muslim I believe Islam is the best solution for mankind and whilst living in the land of kafirs is a challenge, a test from Allah swt, it's also an opportunity for Dawah and to show the unbelievers a better way and spread the truth of Islam.
I'm very interested in the similarities across faiths - can you tell me why Islam places such a strong emphasis upon the role of Jesus?
Because, in short, as Muslims we believe that Isa (AS) will return before al Qiyamah, defeat the Dajjal in Jerusalem at the Al Aqsa mosque. It's one of the signs al Qiyamah is near as prophesied. Also on al Qiyamah Isa will speak out against the Xtians who went astray and affirm the truth of Islam.
Don't you also believe that the Prophet rode on a holy flying dog to the moon, or something?
I'm not joking. There is something like that isn't there?
It's no madder than Catholics believing they eat the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday. Indeed less mad, probably.
I wonder what the proportion of Catholics think they are literally eating the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday? I'd guess a lot smaller than the proportion of Muslims who believe all that guff.
It does seem to me that the Government have outmanoeuvred labour on tomorrows motion and put all mps on the spot.
By accepting labour's motion but including A50 to be served by 31st March 2017 anyone who votes against will be shown to be attempting to delay matters for their own ends.
I support the wearing of the niqab, have cautioned against banning it, called out Islamophobia, have said that Islam is part of Europe and is here to stay and im proud the UK is more tolerant towards Muslims but that makes me a "brainwashed" "radical" who should "go and live in Syria".......errr k then! It's clear who are the intolerant ones.
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
LOL MI5 is dat you yeah?
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
You're about as regular a muslim as the witnesses that come round to my house occasionally are christian, and they're alot politer, nicer, less intrusive people to boot.
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
Islamism has been a catastrophe everywhere, socially, politically and economically. The idea that Islam is the perfect religion and Mohammmad the perfect man is manifestly absurd.
And the problem is that hardliners are growing in the west and in formerly moderate countries like Turkey and Syria.
I think polarising too, there is quite a backlash as well, which is why Muslim countries require brutal enforcement to make their peoples obey the Islamists.
You can find Christian Biblical literalists. You can find Muslim traditions with a more interpretive stance, like Sufism. There is nothing uniquely inflexible about Islam: there are un-uniquely inflexible religionists of all types all over.
Henry
Sufis and Ahmadis are seen as heretics by other Muslims and persecuted and killed where no protection is offered by the state.
I wonder what the proportion of Catholics think they are literally eating the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday? I'd guess a lot smaller than the proportion of Muslims who believe all that guff.
If a person believes and doesn't believe it at the same time, does that count as believing it?
''It's no madder than Catholics believing they eat the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday. Indeed less mad, probably. ''
There's something slightly vampiric about the eucharist isn;t there?
But there's an important message there. Christians not only can drink, but they should.
Same with turning of water into wine. Jesus didn't mind people having a good time.
I'm not sure where the Catholics get their transubstantiation from.
The original purpose of the bread and wine was very simple, just a remembrance:
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The extent to which *any* of the teachings are based on anything remotely historically provable is extremely limited. I'd recommend Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword as an eye-opener into the religion's roots (which are largely pagan Arab, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Christian). The first review says more.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
The author's view is interesting but heterodox. Most (non-Muslim) scholars of the subject reject his central hypothesis, although an element of what he says -- that is all much less well documented than you might expect and Islam grew out of earlier practices -- is widely accepted.
I bet pinkrose's Algerian husband is right now having a secret lager and a bacon sandwich in a strip pub in Acton, dreading the moment he has to go home and talk about the bloody hadiths to his entirely shrouded and crazy fat English wife, whom he only married so he could stay in England, and thus escape the nutters in Algeria.
There's no need for that, Sean, however trolly we may think pinkrose's posts.
''It's no madder than Catholics believing they eat the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday. Indeed less mad, probably. ''
There's something slightly vampiric about the eucharist isn;t there?
But there's an important message there. Christians not only can drink, but they should.
Same with turning of water into wine. Jesus didn't mind people having a good time.
I'm not sure where the Catholics get their transubstantiation from.
The original purpose of the bread and wine was very simple, just a remembrance:
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
''It's no madder than Catholics believing they eat the flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday. Indeed less mad, probably. ''
There's something slightly vampiric about the eucharist isn;t there?
But there's an important message there. Christians not only can drink, but they should.
Same with turning of water into wine. Jesus didn't mind people having a good time.
I'm not sure where the Catholics get their transubstantiation from.
The original purpose of the bread and wine was very simple, just a remembrance:
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
The symbolic eating of Jesus's body relates to the question, to which the answer is disputed, as to whether the Last Supper was a Passover supper. Was there a Passover lamb there? Remember "I am the lamb".
I support the wearing of the niqab, have cautioned against banning it, called out Islamophobia, have said that Islam is part of Europe and is here to stay and im proud the UK is more tolerant towards Muslims but that makes me a "brainwashed" "radical" who should "go and live in Syria".......errr k then! It's clear who are the intolerant ones.
But isn't it the Will of Allah (SWT) that we are all born naked?
I support the wearing of the niqab, have cautioned against banning it, called out Islamophobia, have said that Islam is part of Europe and is here to stay and im proud the UK is more tolerant towards Muslims but that makes me a "brainwashed" "radical" who should "go and live in Syria".......errr k then! It's clear who are the intolerant ones.
So you support people whose religion specifically states that believers should not befriend you and should kill you at any opportunity. And those people are actually practising what their religion preaches.
I think you should go to Mecca and tell them they should be more tolerant of unbelievers
I bet pinkrose's Algerian husband is right now having a secret lager and a bacon sandwich in a strip pub in Acton, dreading the moment he has to go home and talk about the bloody hadiths to his entirely shrouded and crazy fat English wife, whom he only married so he could stay in England, and thus escape the nutters in Algeria.
There's no need for that, Sean, however trolly we may think pinkrose's posts.
Bog off, she called me a kaffir. I will say what I bloody well like.
I've always thought the Sunnah is really rocky ground on which to base a culture. The Quran - the written word; fair enough. The hadith - the preachings. Okay, I can see that, though spoken words can obviously be twisted.
But the Sunnah? Copying the way he lived his life? No, goodness no. If you want to do that, then surely you need to go and live in a tent in the desert.
The writer of that first review cannot, and should not, be argued with!
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
Very much less so. Until I read it, I hadn't really appreciated quite how important the Quran is to muslims, assuming that it's like the Bible because it's the holy book. It's not; it's more than that. It's the equivalent of Jesus in person: the incarnation of God on Earth.
Yes, this is why people who are hoping for a reformation in Islam are completely clueless. The Koran is the literal word of God. The Bible was written by men about another man and then edited by a group of men a few hundred years down the line. It's just a different concept.
I think religions naturally evolve, adapt and can be pushed in one direction or another. You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
The reason some religions reformed or secularised was because of age or because of flexibility. Islam is uniquely inflexible. The word of God doesn't bend so the Koran doesn't bend. To change the Koran is literal blasphemy and punishable by death.
Uniquely inflexible? So why are there all those different splits in Islam? Different practices? Hell a five minute google will find you Muslims who say it's fine to drink alcohol.
A good friend of mine is a vegetarian Muslim, but can be occasionally persuaded of the joys of beer and bacon sandwiches!
Since this one of those evenings where everyone's an expert in the Quran and the Hadiths, I'll be a good Muslim boy and head to a bar and leave you all to it.
Mr. T, be interesting to say if fantasy is more or less crowded. I think the cash pulls people towards thrillers, but lots of would-be writers are into SFF and naturally gravitate that way.
I've got stuff to do for the short term (need to finish three novels and have short stories lined up too), but if I did actually have a crack at writing a thriller, do you reckon it's something I should do after reading several recent ones, or go in fresh? [That might sound like a stupid question, but I remember reading Joe Abercrombie say he didn't read that much fantasy and he liked mingling genres, most specifically the Western in Red Country. Unsure if that would apply for thrillers].
Of course, the other money market is erotica. Ahem. Maybe a political erotic story?
"I'm going to stuff your ballot box!" the candidate for Underbush Now told him. etc etc
[For the record, being rather more serious about the thriller talk. I find frisky stories too amusing to try and write seriously, hence Sir Edric's cocking about].
Since this one of those evenings where everyone's an expert in the Quran and the Hadiths, I'll be a good Muslim boy and head to a bar and leave you all to it.
No. Islamophobic means "an irrational fear of Islam". I have a rational dislike and abhorrence of the more fundamentalist forms of Islam that have grown in strength in the last 30-40 years, from Wahhabism to Salafism etc.
Ironically, I used to have a sincere admiration for the moderate forms of Islam I encountered when I travelled the middle East in the 1980s and 90s. All gone now.
Syria in particular was a wonderfully welcoming and hospitable country, despite its nasty dictator. Christians could live there in peace.
The evolution of much of Islam into this dark, grotesque, self-mutilating monster is the great tragedy of our age.
A bit like Patrick Leigh Fermor's book A Time of Gifts, he found much to admire in Germany in 1933, despite early worrying signs. If he had travelled a few years later it would have resulted in a much different book — assuming he could even make the journey — with the old German values all but swept away by Nazism.
Militant hard-line Islam has been an utter catastrophe for the Middle East and North Africa.
Islamism has been a catastrophe everywhere, socially, politically and economically. The idea that Islam is the perfect religion and Mohammmad the perfect man is manifestly absurd.
And the problem is that hardliners are growing in the west and in formerly moderate countries like Turkey and Syria.
There are many different phenomena perhaps overlapping. Populist movements around the world often have a religious bent: as with Christianity and the Republicans in the US, the BJP in India, events in Sri Lanka and Burma, Putin and the Orthodox Church in Russia, etc.
At the same time, Saudi-funded Wahabism has been growing.
At the same time, the re-emergence of ethnic divisions in a post-Fukuyama world often overlaps with religion. Thus, the break-up of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria have all been on ethno-religious lines.
The combination of these interacts. Thus Chechnya, for example, traditionally had a very different brand of Islam based on Sufism. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the re-emergence of nationalism sees ethnically Chechen vs. ethnically Russian, which morphs into Muslim vs. Christian. The existing structures around an extremist Sunni interpretation that has had military success in Afghanistan etc. makes that attractive to Chechen fighters. Chechen nationalism then becomes wedded to this particular type of Islamic extremism, contrary to Chechnya's own religious traditions.
I support the wearing of the niqab, have cautioned against banning it, called out Islamophobia, have said that Islam is part of Europe and is here to stay and im proud the UK is more tolerant towards Muslims but that makes me a "brainwashed" "radical" who should "go and live in Syria".......errr k then! It's clear who are the intolerant ones.
I bet pinkrose's Algerian husband is right now having a secret lager and a bacon sandwich in a strip pub in Acton, dreading the moment he has to go home and talk about the bloody hadiths to his entirely shrouded and crazy fat English wife, whom he only married so he could stay in England, and thus escape the nutters in Algeria.
There's no need for that, Sean, however trolly we may think pinkrose's posts.
Bog off, she called me a kaffir. I will say what I bloody well like.
lol there you go w/ dem cliches again.
I'm English but i aint fat, our bodies are an Amanah from Allah swt that we should look after, it's not from Islam to be fat (unless medical condition). It's also our responsibilities as wives to look good for our husbands and only our husbands and please them, unlike western women who expose themselves to every tom, dick and harry and seem to be at war with western men.
I would like to suggest to you, Sheikh Assim al Hakeem from Saudi, listen to his lectures on why its especially important for beautiful women to wear niqab, and all amma say is that my husband insists i wear it
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
LOL MI5 is dat you yeah?
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
It's a bit embarrassing to watch all the rightwingers on here ganging up on you. Personally I wouldn't wish anyone to be in a war zone or get mutilated. I find it hard to believe in any supernatural being and if by chance I'm wrong and one does exist, I bet she's quite peaceloving.
Since this one of those evenings where everyone's an expert in the Quran and the Hadiths, I'll be a good Muslim boy and head to a bar and leave you all to it.
An insult to the PB Faithful!
I'm a very good Muslim, if you ignore my constant whoring and gambling, lack of prayers, and marrying an infidel*
The reason some religions reformed or secularised was because of age or because of flexibility. Islam is uniquely inflexible. The word of God doesn't bend so the Koran doesn't bend. To change the Koran is literal blasphemy and punishable by death.
Talking about a literal interpretation of words.
It reminds me of a scene in a movie I watched when Mao visited Stalin and Stalin presented him with 300 vinyl records of his speeches as a gift.
The box was marked "Breakable" due to the vinyl being fragile, but Stalin took it that it meant that his words on the records were breakable and had it changed to "Unbreakable"
They should write the Koran on rubber sheets to see if it bends.
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
LOL MI5 is dat you yeah?
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
It's a bit embarrassing to watch all the rightwingers on here ganging up on you. Personally I wouldn't wish anyone to be in a war zone or get mutilated. I find it hard to believe in any supernatural being and if by chance I'm wrong and one does exist, I bet she's quite peaceloving.
@Pinkrose I think you'd be happier living in Syria.
I don't give a flying stuff where Pinkrose would be happier.
*I* would be happier if he/she was living in Syria. Aleppo is nice this time of year.
Pinkrose is no threat to either of you and she is clearly happier living in Britain. Imagine if someone told you that they'd be happier if you left the country and lived somewhere run by the Klu Klux Klan.
Why is a practicing Muslim on a betting forum? Just curious.
Im into politics (shock horror) and have read this site for a long time, even before i reverted. I dont normally have time to post. I dont even think of this site as betting just reaction/analysis.
Comments
Five Afghan teenagers are arrested after a boy is gang-raped at knifepoint for more than an hour in a forest in Sweden
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4006190/Five-Afghan-teenagers-arrested-boy-gang-raped-knifepoint-hour-forest-Sweden.html
Islamophobia
NOUN
[mass noun] Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/islamophobia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4005186/It-s-f-5-note-Furious-Scot-films-row-McDonald-s-manager-London-refused-accept-Scottish-money.html
As I say, words change over time. Literally used to mean literally. Gay used to mean happy.
Fewer used to fewer, not less, loose didn't used to mean not win.
But phobias used to have medical connotations, not a mild dislike.
Oh, and gluten intolerance used to mean coeliac disease, not a luvvie aspiration.
Mohamed Abrini – who was dubbed The Man in the Hat – travelled from Syria to Birmingham last July in order to collect £3,000 from Isil sympathisers.
Upon his return to Belgium he was arrested and questioned by detectives who also seized his mobile phone containing photographs of British landmarks including Old Trafford and Birmingham's Bullring Shopping Centre.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/06/police-let-man-hat-belgian-terror-suspect-walk-free/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate-coated_marshmallow_treats
In fact, from the sounds of it I'd agree with much of what the book says. But whether or not it is historical provable does not matter to the faithful; it is a matter of faith. And the Quran is inviolate in their eyes. The hadith less so, and the sunnah even less so, which is one of the many reasons there are so many subfaiths within Islam.
And the whole lot is wrapped up in a while bundle of interpretation, though the Quran is somewhat less open to that.
So doesn't have to be irrational I guess then.
People have natural fears of death, fire, and so forth. The fear must be irrational and usually (always?) excessive for it to be considered a phobia.
Mr. Urquhart, it's almost as if open borders are a dangerous idea. Poor lad.
We need to look at the next generation as well; not doing so will just worsen the problem.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/phobia
http://order-order.com/2016/12/06/government-amendment-calls-article-50-triggered/
Thoughts? Is this correct analysis? If so, how much money is being wasted on the dog and pony show going on at the Supreme Court?
Fortunately Athiest Muslims are quite common:
http://nypost.com/2016/11/26/atheist-muslims-could-be-the-key-to-defeating-islamic-terror/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astraphobia
Likewise, Wikipedia, which describes Alexander the Great as king of a Greek kingdom.
Mr. Max, indeed (unsure on the burkha ban myself, but certainly believe free speech needs to actually be defended by the media and political class).
Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks in fright, for he knew about the plot. Cao Cao was suspicious, but Liu Bei blamed his fear on the thunder, saying even Confucius* was scared of such things, which allayed Cao Cao's concerns.
*Might have been Lao Tze, it's difficult remembering everything in a million word mega-novel
Why do you use all those transliterated Arabic words? Would any meaning be lost if you wrote "God" instead of "Allah"? I'm sure you will answer "no", so why do it?
Same question regarding "praise be to God" instead of "alhamdulillah", "divine destiny" instead of "qadr", and "the temporal world" instead of "this dunya". Is there something so weak about the English language that makes it significantly less capable than Arabic of expressing important religious notions?
And why do you call Britain a "land of the kafirs", when 60% of people here identify as Christians, and unless I'm mistaken, Christians aren't called "kafirs" in the Koran?
Is it one of the ones who have resigned recently?
Will they then decide to vote against their own amendment!?
Seems a bit strange...
You can always find a scholar or a theologian to defend almost any point of view in any case.
You'd have thought the Italians would want a fully fledged Jedi, as opposed to a mere Padoan.
why though? Im just a regular Muslim, nothing i have said or done is radical or extreme, it's just that Islamophobia is so engrained now, you lot dont even hide it.
"Xtians" ???
Do you mean Christians?
Can you not say the word? Are you like an actor not able to say "Macbeth"?
Out of interest, what's your view on FGM? Have you volunteered?
*I* would be happier if he/she was living in Syria.
Aleppo is nice this time of year.
Quite honestly this stuff would embarrass JK Rowling.
There's something slightly vampiric about the eucharist isn;t there?
But there's an important message there. Christians not only can drink, but they should.
Same with turning of water into wine. Jesus didn't mind people having a good time.
'''Han Solo Mio.....''
Henry
Hell a five minute google will find you Muslims who say it's fine to drink alcohol.
A couple of decades ago I read all of the bible. Afterwards I started reading the Quran, but I stopped halfway through because it alarmed me. The bible is full of contradictions (especially when you include the New Testament). Every time someone says 'this verse says homosexuals/women/walnuts are evil,' you can counter: 'aha! This verse says the opposite!'
I found far fewer contradictions in the Quran. As a whole, or at least the half I read, it was both enlightening and chilling. Though I admit that as I only read half, and only touched on the hadith, I might have missed a great deal.
I can see how it might be easier to be a Muslim fundamentalist than a Christian one. Though I'd profess to be a scholar on neither.
It would actually be interesting to read both again if I had the time; the Internet has altered the way people interact with Holy texts to a certain extent.
By accepting labour's motion but including A50 to be served by 31st March 2017 anyone who votes against will be shown to be attempting to delay matters for their own ends.
Clever politics by Theresa May
I'm not sure where the Catholics get their transubstantiation from.
The original purpose of the bread and wine was very simple, just a remembrance:
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11:23-26&version=NIV
Mr. Hopkins, I knew a Jewish chap online who would only write G-d because he didn't believe God's name should be written impermanently.
Mr. rkrkrk, to be fair, things that aren't flexible do tend to shatter.
Mr. T, *sighs* maybe I should jump genres. I know you're at the top end, but thrillers do seem easier to shift than fantasy.
*plays small violin*
Don't blame me!
https://twitter.com/kmflett/status/806187490285678592
So you support people whose religion specifically states that believers should not befriend you and should kill you at any opportunity. And those people are actually practising what their religion preaches.
I think you should go to Mecca and tell them they should be more tolerant of unbelievers
If I ever get around to my own anthology, I'll include the short story from there (Project Phoenix, it's a rather good horror).
Actually stands for "Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala" or "Glory to Him, the Exalted"
I've got stuff to do for the short term (need to finish three novels and have short stories lined up too), but if I did actually have a crack at writing a thriller, do you reckon it's something I should do after reading several recent ones, or go in fresh? [That might sound like a stupid question, but I remember reading Joe Abercrombie say he didn't read that much fantasy and he liked mingling genres, most specifically the Western in Red Country. Unsure if that would apply for thrillers].
Of course, the other money market is erotica. Ahem. Maybe a political erotic story?
"I'm going to stuff your ballot box!" the candidate for Underbush Now told him. etc etc
[For the record, being rather more serious about the thriller talk. I find frisky stories too amusing to try and write seriously, hence Sir Edric's cocking about].
At the same time, Saudi-funded Wahabism has been growing.
At the same time, the re-emergence of ethnic divisions in a post-Fukuyama world often overlaps with religion. Thus, the break-up of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria have all been on ethno-religious lines.
The combination of these interacts. Thus Chechnya, for example, traditionally had a very different brand of Islam based on Sufism. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the re-emergence of nationalism sees ethnically Chechen vs. ethnically Russian, which morphs into Muslim vs. Christian. The existing structures around an extremist Sunni interpretation that has had military success in Afghanistan etc. makes that attractive to Chechen fighters. Chechen nationalism then becomes wedded to this particular type of Islamic extremism, contrary to Chechnya's own religious traditions.
I'm English but i aint fat, our bodies are an Amanah from Allah swt that we should look after, it's not from Islam to be fat (unless medical condition). It's also our responsibilities as wives to look good for our husbands and only our husbands and please them, unlike western women who expose themselves to every tom, dick and harry and seem to be at war with western men.
I would like to suggest to you, Sheikh Assim al Hakeem from Saudi, listen to his lectures on why its especially important for beautiful women to wear niqab, and all amma say is that my husband insists i wear it
I find it hard to believe in any supernatural being and if by chance I'm wrong and one does exist, I bet she's quite peaceloving.
*Calm down SeanT,
It reminds me of a scene in a movie I watched when Mao visited Stalin and Stalin presented him with 300 vinyl records of his speeches as a gift.
The box was marked "Breakable" due to the vinyl being fragile, but Stalin took it that it meant that his words on the records were breakable and had it changed to "Unbreakable"
They should write the Koran on rubber sheets to see if it bends.