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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local and Westminster by-election preview

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  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    LDs matched at 2.1.

    Looks like money going on the LDs - though Zac still 1.61.
  • Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: #RichmondPark chat
    LD sources "it's tighter than a Nats f***ing chuff - 3k either way

    That means they don't know or managing expectations. 3K either way isn't close on a sub 50% turnout.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    IanB2 said:

    Well Mr Farron has emailed me to say he is expecting a good result. Let's wait and see...

    On Betfair the LDs have shaded out to about 3.0

    Nothing less than a win is a good result for the Lib Dems. It's a former seat of theirs, lost to a liberally inclined Tory who then turned into Richard Nixon as candidate for London mayor. It's thought of as a very pro-EU area with the whole election a bit of a farce, reflecting badly on both the Tories and Goldsmith. The Greens have even stood aside for them.
    That does sound a bit like damage limitation TBH. It was actually a massive mountain to climb, with an apparently popular MP doing a popular thing in standing by a principle (as it said relentlessly on all his posters and leaflets) on an issue where the constituency mostly agrees with him. It is only during the last few days that there's been a feeling that Zac has misjudged it and the Brexit issue started to pull. But let's wait and see..
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    Betfair suggests nobody has a clue - almost no money wanting to back or lay the LDs.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited December 2016

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    You could have said that last year. GE 2017 could be a humdinger.
    Corbyn wins snap GE?
    Corbyn winning would send this site into a bigger meltdown than Trump and Brexit combined :)
    This site was actually happy about those events. But Corbyn won't win. The fact he is Labour leader is so utterly depressing. He's probably the worst Labour leader ever.
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Paddy threatening to eat his hat!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    On Betfair the LibDems are about to drop below evens. But improving odds as the polls close has been the sign of impending doom this year...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    According to that there spreadsheet that is t taking the actual popular vote in America now that the news networks have given up Hilary s just gained 20 thousand votes in PA since I last looked. She's now less than 50,000 votes behind. That's a bit dramatic.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,764
    Pulpstar said:

    Barnesian said:

    Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    I think that's right. Low turnout. Allegedly 35% in my local polling station.
    Is your particular polling station more likely to be a strong Lib Dem or Tory one ?
    Strong Tory one
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    MikeL said:

    LDs matched at 2.1.

    Looks like money going on the LDs - though Zac still 1.61.

    There is absolutley no liquidity so one orrson could move market massively
  • We might see crossover on Betfair very soon
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Dixie said:

    Tories have been canvassing tonight in Richmond Park that have finally confirmed. they've told me that Libs have won.

    Magnificent news for UKIP if true. It makes it clear that any vote in a by election or general election has to be on the basis of Leave.

    It's horrendous for Labour outside the metro areas.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    too close to call in Georgia, got to bed.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Alistair said:

    According to that there spreadsheet that is t taking the actual popular vote in America now that the news networks have given up Hilary s just gained 20 thousand votes in PA since I last looked. She's now less than 50,000 votes behind. That's a bit dramatic.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19

    Yes, Philadelphia is unbelievably slow at counting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    The LDs were the top party for the area I was at for the PCC elections. They came third on first preference overall, and only barely above the last ranked party. The first boxes probably looked good.
  • Very quiet here?
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,146

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    In the circumstances one can only reflect that the repeated use of 'Downtown' Abbey here is a Freudian slip. :smile:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Sounds a little convoluted, to be honest. People are simpler than that, surely.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2016
    SeanT said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    What an absolute sack of bollocks.
    No, it is just a psychobabble way of describing the downstairs losing faith in the upstairs establishment.

    Downton Abbey was just pantomime in comparison.

  • I've always felt 1997 was the real millennium in Britain. The death of Protestantism with the Dianafication of popular grief. The first post modern political event in the NuLabor Landslide, the devolution referendums in Scotland and Wales as precognitions of the nationalism of 20 years later.
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
    What worries me is my heart skipped a beat just seeing that ........
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: #RichmondPark chat
    LD sources "it's tighter than a Nats f***ing chuff - 3k either way

    That means they don't know or managing expectations. 3K either way isn't close on a sub 50% turnout.
    Tories not happy. resigned to lose.
  • SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Well Mr Farron has emailed me to say he is expecting a good result. Let's wait and see...

    On Betfair the LDs have shaded out to about 3.0

    Nothing less than a win is a good result for the Lib Dems. It's a former seat of theirs, lost to a liberally inclined Tory who then turned into Richard Nixon as candidate for London mayor. It's thought of as a very pro-EU area with the whole election a bit of a farce, reflecting badly on both the Tories and Goldsmith. The Greens have even stood aside for them.
    That does sound a bit like damage limitation TBH. It was actually a massive mountain to climb, with an apparently popular MP doing a popular thing in standing by a principle (as it said relentlessly on all his posters and leaflets) on an issue where the constituency mostly agrees with him. It is only during the last few days that there's been a feeling that Zac has misjudged it and the Brexit issue started to pull. But let's wait and see..
    If Libs win it's a big and hugely needed triumph for them, and for Farron, and a definite blow to Hard Brexit. It just is. Zac had a 23,000 majority.

    The bookies (Laddies and Betfair Sportsbook) think Zac's won with his odds at 2/5, with the LibDems quoted at 7/4.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith
  • Dixie said:

    Dixie said:

    Tories have been canvassing tonight in Richmond Park that have finally confirmed. they've told me that Libs have won.

    That's big!
    Of course, they really don't know. Just their feeling. They're on the phone now, they are so miserable. I can't get them off the phone.
    IIRC your 'in the know' predictions were somewhat inaccurate for the London elections.

    Though you were then predicting the Conservatives to do better than they did.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    When labour win this by election the experts will look foolish
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
    What worries me is my heart skipped a beat just seeing that ........
    Haha!

    I see that Kane has signed a new contract till 2023, that's some good news for you guys.
  • SeanT said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    What an absolute sack of bollocks.
    Well referendum results are binary. So in reality she could just have tossed a coin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Well Mr Farron has emailed me to say he is expecting a good result. Let's wait and see...

    On Betfair the LDs have shaded out to about 3.0

    Nothing less than a win is a good result for the Lib Dems. It's a former seat of theirs, lost to a liberally inclined Tory who then turned into Richard Nixon as candidate for London mayor. It's thought of as a very pro-EU area with the whole election a bit of a farce, reflecting badly on both the Tories and Goldsmith. The Greens have even stood aside for them.
    That does sound a bit like damage limitation TBH. It was actually a massive mountain to climb, with an apparently popular MP doing a popular thing in standing by a principle (as it said relentlessly on all his posters and leaflets) on an issue where the constituency mostly agrees with him. It is only during the last few days that there's been a feeling that Zac has misjudged it and the Brexit issue started to pull. But let's wait and see..
    If Libs win it's a big and hugely needed triumph for them, and for Farron, and a definite blow to Hard Brexit. It just is.
    There'll be no shortage of people arguing otherwise, but it's hard to see such an outcome as anything else. Even with any other factors that might have helped them, the LDs were so far back, and are still ghosts in national political terms, and there were factors working against them too.

    It will certainly prompt some fun spinning should they win - it's boring to hear the spin on a usual no surprise by-election as leaders try to make an expected comfortable win seem like its significant, or a standing still second place seem like a wake up call for the government etc, because turnout being down means the majority number is less.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    You could have said that last year. GE 2017 could be a humdinger.
    Corbyn wins snap GE?
    Corbyn winning would send this site into a bigger meltdown than Trump and Brexit combined :)
    This site was actually happy about those events. But Corbyn won't win. The fact he is Labour leader is so utterly depressing. He's probably the worst Labour leader ever.
    That's the thing, with Brexit and Trump there were still people on this site that thought they could win (I got Trump right but not Brexit), whereas it seems almost no-one at all is predicting a Corbyn victory (I don't either) - so if he did pull it off it would be even more blindsiding.

    He's almost certainly the worst Labour leader ever - at least Foot didn't project incompetence like Corbyn does.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,012

    But it felt good at the time - that's all you ever need to know about left wing politics.

    It wasn't only the left, a lot of people thought it was a good change. Boy were they wrong. The world would be a much better place if Blair and Brown has never been born.
  • Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    But which boxes were first ? Could mean anything.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Alistair said:

    When labour win this by election the experts will look foolish

    Now that would be the shocker to end them all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,919
    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    If Zac loses, and I suspect he scrapes home by a thousand votes or so, it will in large part be because the voters of Richmond decided they couldn't be arsed to vote in an unnecessary by-election.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,764
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited December 2016
    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

  • @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Dixie said:

    Dixie said:

    Tories have been canvassing tonight in Richmond Park that have finally confirmed. they've told me that Libs have won.

    That's big!
    Of course, they really don't know. Just their feeling. They're on the phone now, they are so miserable. I can't get them off the phone.
    IIRC your 'in the know' predictions were somewhat inaccurate for the London elections.

    Though you were then predicting the Conservatives to do better than they did.
    CORRECT. But they were my predictions. These are other people's!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    You could have said that last year. GE 2017 could be a humdinger.
    Corbyn wins snap GE?
    Corbyn winning would send this site into a bigger meltdown than Trump and Brexit combined :)
    This site was actually happy about those events. But Corbyn won't win. The fact he is Labour leader is so utterly depressing. He's probably the worst Labour leader ever.
    That's the thing, with Brexit and Trump there were still people on this site that thought they could win (I got Trump right but not Brexit), whereas it seems almost no-one at all is predicting a Corbyn victory (I don't either) - so if he did pull it off it would be even more blindsiding.

    He's almost certainly the worst Labour leader ever - at least Foot didn't project incompetence like Corbyn does.
    Correct - I backed both Trump and Brexit and won handsomely despite desperately hoping to lose my money.

    I won't be backing Corbyn. He has rendered the party a complete irrelevance.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    1989 was even more exciting surely? Internationally, anyway
    1989 was probably more exciting, and certainly much more important, but I specifically said "within the realm of democratic politics we have had the most excitement possible" - ie. within electoral politics here in the west.

    For politics nerds like us, I do not see how it can feasibly get any more exciting than what we have witnessed 2014-2016. Even a Marine Le Pen election wouldn't quite match Brexit or Trump. And Corbyn has provided incredible comedy.

    It's a golden age now ending, like the first tang of autumn in the Summer of Love, or French Art in the decades before the lilacs and roses of the Great War.

    2014-2016, we salute you.
    nah I actually think Le Pen would be bigger earthquake then trump because trump was standing on the Republican party platform who are not considered neo nazi/facist like FN. But trump is more important in terms of west's general direction.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Speedy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
    will favour Zac
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited December 2016
    Did I hear earlier that Richmond result not expected until tomorrow afternoon? :open_mouth:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    But which boxes were first ? Could mean anything.
    Normally the ones from the polling station nearest wherever the count is, presumably Richmond Town Hall!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    glw said:

    But it felt good at the time - that's all you ever need to know about left wing politics.

    It wasn't only the left, a lot of people thought it was a good change. Boy were they wrong. The world would be a much better place if Blair and Brown has never been born.
    Much better place if Thatcher had never existed.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Dixie said:

    Speedy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
    will favour Zac
    It actually more than doubled if turnout is just 35%.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited December 2016
    LDs changing expectations a bit:

    https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/804457695474499584

    Sounds like a repeat of the 2010 result.
  • Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    Overall turnout in 2015 was 76.5%.

    So if overall turnout is below 50% now then postal votes should be down at least 25%.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Is there any audio or visual for Richmond ?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Speedy said:

    Dixie said:

    Speedy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
    will favour Zac
    It actually more than doubled if turnout is just 35%.
    this morning, the view was turnout was high. But that looks like bollocks. Which mean, probably everything forecast is bollocks. Low turn out normally favours incumbent and older voters still turn out so Tories. But Tories on ground are not confident. That doesn't mean much either.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    nunu said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    1989 was even more exciting surely? Internationally, anyway
    1989 was probably more exciting, and certainly much more important, but I specifically said "within the realm of democratic politics we have had the most excitement possible" - ie. within electoral politics here in the west.

    For politics nerds like us, I do not see how it can feasibly get any more exciting than what we have witnessed 2014-2016. Even a Marine Le Pen election wouldn't quite match Brexit or Trump. And Corbyn has provided incredible comedy.

    It's a golden age now ending, like the first tang of autumn in the Summer of Love, or French Art in the decades before the lilacs and roses of the Great War.

    2014-2016, we salute you.
    nah I actually think Le Pen would be bigger earthquake then trump because trump was standing on the Republican party platform who are not considered neo nazi/facist like FN. But trump is more important in terms of west's general direction.
    Le Pen will take France out of the EU, which will mean the end of the EU. So I agree her election would be a bigger earthquake, in geopolitical terms, than that of Trump.
  • Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    That's why I always use the '.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    But which boxes were first ? Could mean anything.
    Normally the ones from the polling station nearest wherever the count is, presumably Richmond Town Hall!
    It's Kingston:
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/804459590414925824
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Speedy said:

    Dixie said:

    Speedy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
    will favour Zac
    It actually more than doubled if turnout is just 35%.
    amazingly high then. Can't believe it will be as low as 35%. perhaps 42%.
  • justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    The Government doesn't need the boundary changes to decimate labour while Corbyn is there
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    That issue was around before 2016, though admittedly has increased. Elite is a state of mind now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited December 2016
    OK so obviously we're going to get the result tonight.

    I should be supporting Zac (as he's a Brexiteer) but he's also a rich fool playing at politics so wouldn't be totally upset if the LIb-Dems do it and send him back to his trust fund.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Isn't Kingston the most Lib Dem place ever ?
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    I agree. Fancy holding a by-election to elect the same person, who will have the same policies and get ignored in the same way by the govt. He deserves to lose.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,764
    Speedy said:

    Dixie said:

    Speedy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: --- some Richmond intel: Low turnout looking likely. Low postal vote turnout it seems, which could be better for LibDem Olney than Goldsmith

    Postal vote 20% down on General Election allegedly.
    So the share of postal votes has actually gone up since the GE.
    will favour Zac
    It actually more than doubled if turnout is just 35%.
    I got the 35% from my local polling station so it is only one of twenty or so. I'm also not sure what it is 35% of! Is it 35% of the total electorate or 35% of the nonPV electorate? It might be unwise to manipulate these figures too much. I agree that a higher PV would favour Zac as the momentum was going away from him at the end of the campaign after the PVs went out.
  • Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    If the turnout is that low, is it really an important by election?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    The Government doesn't need the boundary changes to decimate labour while Corbyn is there
    I doubt that he will be there beyond 2018.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    Unfortunate - my own proposed seat would be much improved, and might even make it potentially vulnerable, if the LDs staged a decent recovery, and I'd like to live in a seat that is actively contested, without needing to move.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited December 2016
    Further change of tune from LDs:

    https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/804457988710891520

    A Goldsmith victory by 3k is actually what it's expected for a long time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is as exciting as Brexit night, isn't it?

    We shall never see its like again. Unless we get Brexit Round 3 at some point.
    It just occurred to me that politics will NEVER be as exciting as 2014-2016. From indyref to the GE to Corbyn to the incredible peak of Brexit and The Donald, that was it.

    We're done. We're finished. Within the realms of democratic politics, we have had the most excitement possible. We can't touch those heights again. From now on, all is gentle decline.

    *sigh*
    1989 was even more exciting surely? Internationally, anyway
    1989 was probably more exciting, and certainly much more important, but I specifically said "within the realm of democratic politics we have had the most excitement possible" - ie. within electoral politics here in the west.

    For politics nerds like us, I do not see how it can feasibly get any more exciting than what we have witnessed 2014-2016. Even a Marine Le Pen election wouldn't quite match Brexit or Trump. And Corbyn has provided incredible comedy.

    It's a golden age now ending, like the first tang of autumn in the Summer of Love, or French Art in the decades before the lilacs and roses of the Great War.

    2014-2016, we salute you.
    The collapse of the EU might run it close.
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
    What worries me is my heart skipped a beat just seeing that ........
    Haha!

    I see that Kane has signed a new contract till 2023, that's some good news for you guys.
    Yeah, it puts up the transfer fee they'll get when the sell him in a year or two...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    If the turnout is that low, is it really an important by election?
    A Tory loss on any turnout (ok, Ind loss, if we must) would be very important, as it would be a shock even on low turnout, and shocks are important because they force everyone to react differently.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    Doesn't mean anything since the first boxes could be from one of the LDs better areas in the constituency.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't Kingston the most Lib Dem place ever ?

    I believe it is, which would explain why they where leading a bit in the first boxes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,008
    Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    The Great Orange Scourge of the elite will have the wealthiest administration ever...
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/12/01/trump_s_cabinet_will_be_the_wealthiest.html
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    At the Mayoral elections I bumped into Christian Wolmar at a church hustings. He was the Chairman. He arrived on his bike then took to the lavatory. You know, He was in the papers last week bemoaning the overuse toilet roll. Blimey, that morning he stank that bog out big time! And there was no sign of a bide in this 19th century church. I went in after him...I nearly died! Just a little anecdote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,919
    edited December 2016
    Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    Agreed: it's a video game, boys and girls.

    In other news, after eleven months of waiting, I finally got my HoloLens.
  • Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
    What worries me is my heart skipped a beat just seeing that ........
    Haha!

    I see that Kane has signed a new contract till 2023, that's some good news for you guys.
    Yeah, it puts up the transfer fee they'll get when the sell him in a year or two...
    I can actually see Kane staying at Spurs. It's the likes of Alderweireld that I can see moving on in a couple of years if Spurs don't win a FA Cup or consistently challenge for the league.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    GIN1138 said:

    Did I hear earlier that Richmond result not expected until tomorrow afternoon? :open_mouth:

    2 am if no recount
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    edited December 2016

    justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    The Government doesn't need the boundary changes to decimate labour while Corbyn is there
    Recent political times suggest complacency and over-confidence are extremely unwise.

    The Conservatives need to do everything possible to get the Boundary changes through.

    At GE 2015, Lab + SNP + PC + SDLP + Green got 295.

    324 needed for a majority with SF absent.

    So 29 gains needed - unlikely yes - but not impossible. Corbyn could become PM and everyone should take the terrifying prospect seriously.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited December 2016
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    If the turnout is that low, is it really an important by election?
    A Tory loss on any turnout (ok, Ind loss, if we must) would be very important, as it would be a shock even on low turnout, and shocks are important because they force everyone to react differently.
    Would it be a shock if Zac loses to the Lib-Dems? I thought it was on the cards from the start - Voters HATE being forced to trudge to the polls for needless elections (especially three weeks before Christmas) and will usually punish those that bring it upon them.

    Add to that Zac is LEAVE and Richmond is about as fertile ground for REMAIN as you can get and the possibility for a Lib-Dem spectacular is enormous.

    Like I said. Zac's a fool and like most of these posh boys he seems to vastly over-estimate his political abilities.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    kle4 said:

    Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    That issue was around before 2016, though admittedly has increased. Elite is a state of mind now.
    To some
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    The Government doesn't need the boundary changes to decimate labour while Corbyn is there
    I doubt that he will be there beyond 2018.
    How does he go? The far left have taken control of the party, due to the insane election rules in the PLP.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Faisal Islam says turnout below 50%

    Farage has just conceded....
    Hillary looking strong in Florida
    Spurs 1-0 up at Chelsea
    Spurs 2-0 up at Chelsea
    What worries me is my heart skipped a beat just seeing that ........
    Haha!

    I see that Kane has signed a new contract till 2023, that's some good news for you guys.
    Yeah, it puts up the transfer fee they'll get when the sell him in a year or two...
    Kane seems to be headed back to sicknote status. Strange time for a payrise.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Isn't Kingston the most Lib Dem place ever ?

    Nah, that's Westmorland and Lonsdale, where Farron enjoys an 18% majority!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Dixie said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Did I hear earlier that Richmond result not expected until tomorrow afternoon? :open_mouth:

    2 am if no recount
    Bugger that. I'll leave it here and wake up to the expected Zac win by a few thousand. At least the LDs look set to get some press though, which is hard for them to manage at any other time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't Kingston the most Lib Dem place ever ?

    Kingston had a Tory MP the last time I checked...
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't Kingston the most Lib Dem place ever ?

    No its a Tory controlled council and has a Tory MP.. James Berry
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    kle4 said:

    Dixie said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Did I hear earlier that Richmond result not expected until tomorrow afternoon? :open_mouth:

    2 am if no recount
    Bugger that. I'll leave it here and wake up to the expected Zac win by a few thousand. At least the LDs look set to get some press though, which is hard for them to manage at any other time.
    OK, Locals saying turnout looking low, but Tories might hold on. I mean Indie. massive pinch of salt with that. As expected Zac's get out the vote was shite. Only data from 6 weeks ago. So, they haven't got a clue.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Prediction: Zac by 10%.
  • justin124 said:

    chestnut said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    What's important about it, really?

    The government isn't going to change, and Goldsmith could easily pass as a Lib Dem just as many Lib Dems could pass as Tories.

    If the turnout is 35%, it suggests most people belong in the 'stop wasting our time and shut up' party.

    Government majority would be down to 10 - Boundary changes in even greater jeopardy.
    The government majority will be 13 tomorrow (pending the result in Sleaford) no matter who wins tonight.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nigelb said:

    Jobabob said:

    @Another_Richard She argued Upstairs, Downstairs was a *memory* of a social order that was stronger in the past but still existed when it was broadcast. She felt Downtown Abbey was a fantasy about a social order that no longer existed and was a sort of cultural grief.

    She saw the Upstairs, Downstairs as a repressive social order but an organic and functional one. She saw Downtown Abbey as a decadent social order that no longer functioned for key stakeholders..

    So her theory was contemporary Britain was telling it's self it wanted the fantasy of Downtown Abbey because it could no longer *remember* the order of the Upstairs, Downstairs and was grieving. When the referendum came the servants ( the voters ) would murder the Granthams ( Cameron/Osborne ) because they'd renaged on the organic inclusion of the Upstairs, Downstairs model. They'd murder their father because they felt the absence of paternal care.

    Thanks.

    I think there's an element of truth in that re people feeling betrayed by the 'elite' but did Downton Abbey really pick that up. Nor did you need to watch Downton Abbey to realise that.
    One of the worst things to come out of 2016 is the utter misuse of the word elite.
    The Great Orange Scourge of the elite will have the wealthiest administration ever...
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/12/01/trump_s_cabinet_will_be_the_wealthiest.html
    Goldman Sachs runnning the Dept of Commerce? Why buy Hillary when Donald gives you it for free?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited December 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    35% turnout is actually low for a by-election of this importance.

    The Tories should be nervous, it might be low enough for the zombies to win.

    But it's certainly not an anti-tory wave.

    If the turnout is that low, is it really an important by election?
    A Tory loss on any turnout (ok, Ind loss, if we must) would be very important, as it would be a shock even on low turnout, and shocks are important because they force everyone to react differently.
    Would it be a shock if Zac loses to the Lib-Dems? I thought it was on the cards from the start - Voters HATE being forced to trudge to the polls for needless elections (especially three weeks before Christmas) and will usually punish those that bring it upon them.
    .
    But do they? OGH said on a thread 'In fact if you look at other by-elections where the incumbent seeks re-election then they usually do so', with very few failures apparently.

    Without a Tory opponent to split his vote, and with UKIP also explicitly backing him, even with the Greens doing likewise for the LDs Zac should be safe given his stonking great majority and that there doesn't seem to be much antipathy toward him for his decision.

    Realistically I'd have thought the LDs would hope to be within a few thousand, where they were in 2010 when they lost the seat, indicating the 20% drop in 2015 had been reversed, as there are other seats where recovering that would win a seat back.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,764
    AndyJS said:

    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: LDs ahead in first boxes I'm told #tension #gnats

    Doesn't mean anything since the first boxes could be from one of the LDs better areas in the constituency.
    If they are from Kingston as reported, then all Kingston four wards were heavily Tory in the last local elections by a factor of two to one. But Sarah is from Kingston.
  • top gear two the grand tour much better this week.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RIP Andrew Sachs.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    nunu said:

    Prediction: Zac by 10%.

    If he wins by 3K with turnout at 35% it would be around that area.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    I know stuff is going on but can't Sky get back to the by-election..
This discussion has been closed.