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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Three CON defences and a GREEN one – tonight’s local council b

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  • Options
    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    It wasn't so long ago that professional people here were explaining that the tobin tax would drive the market here to America. It seems certain that the tobin tax will go through now. If so, what are the advantages of staying in for the banks?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    When I read sensible posts like this I first check I am on PB, then look forward to the RCS govt...
    Sadly I'm rather too good at my current job.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    nunu said:



    Vermont certifies its results: Clinton 178,573 (56.7%), Trump 95,369 (30.3%), Sanders (W/I) 18,183 (5.7%) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/edit#gid=19

    Retweets
    19
    Likes

    Democrats took the senate race (incumbent) - but the Governor is Republican

    On another point

    Reasons to build the wall. http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/11/17/mexican-mayor-arrested-hundreds-massacred-cooked-network-ovens-breitbart-expose/
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    edited November 2016
    PAW said:

    It wasn't so long ago that professional people here were explaining that the tobin tax would drive the market here to America. It seems certain that the tobin tax will go through now. If so, what are the advantages of staying in for the banks?

    Of course, the Uk is probably the only country in the world that has shady implemented the Tobin tax. You didn't know? It's called stamp duty. The current EU proposal (which I suspect still won't happen) is basically the UK's stamp duty with a couple of other asset classes tacked on. (Although now government bonds and their derivatives have been taken out, it has become essentially worthless.)
  • Options
    RobD said:

    I think 'bitchy' is the preferred snowflake term..
    Used by one person, and I think we all agreed it was very wrong to describe that racist slur as 'bitchy'.
    'All'.

    It must be a great burden to bear the collective view of PB (-1 apparently).
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    FF43 said:

    Motorola made a big play of producing phones in the US only for the whole company to be sold to the Chinese a couple of years later.

    When you say whole company it's worth bearing in mind that bits like the semiconductor division*, set top box bit, telecoms hardware and other stuff had been spun off over the years. What was left was an already failing mobile phone company and some patents. Google bought that, ran it for a while**, and then sold it minus most of the key patents to Lenovo.

    So a lot of the real value in what was once the huge Motorola company still remains in US hands.

    * Freescale, which merged with NXP, and is now being bought by Qualcomm.

    ** And made some damn nice phones like the original Moto X and Moto G.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    If Lady Hale is having to answer questions about recusing herself, then surely she has become the story, and recusing herself is exactly what she should do?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    It wasn't so long ago that professional people here were explaining that the tobin tax would drive the market here to America. It seems certain that the tobin tax will go through now. If so, what are the advantages of staying in for the banks?

    Of course, the Uk is probably the only country in the world that has shady implemented the Tobin tax. You didn't know? It's called stamp duty. The current EU proposal (which I suspect still won't happen) is basically the UK's stamp duty with a couple of other asset classes tacked on. (Although now government bonds and their derivatives have been taken out, it has become essentially worthless.)
    I think the latest version of the FTT includes derivatives trades.
  • Options
    For all those PBers who were exercised about Hillary and the (in)security of her emails.

    https://twitter.com/AnnieLowrey/status/799270889804222464
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    For all those PBers who were exercised about Hillary and the (in)security of her emails.

    https://twitter.com/AnnieLowrey/status/799270889804222464

    Well when Greg Norman is involved, why question it?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    It wasn't so long ago that professional people here were explaining that the tobin tax would drive the market here to America. It seems certain that the tobin tax will go through now. If so, what are the advantages of staying in for the banks?

    Of course, the Uk is probably the only country in the world that has shady implemented the Tobin tax. You didn't know? It's called stamp duty. The current EU proposal (which I suspect still won't happen) is basically the UK's stamp duty with a couple of other asset classes tacked on. (Although now government bonds and their derivatives have been taken out, it has become essentially worthless.)
    I think the latest version of the FTT includes derivatives trades.
    Not derivatives on government bonds
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147
    MaxPB said:

    For all those PBers who were exercised about Hillary and the (in)security of her emails.

    https://twitter.com/AnnieLowrey/status/799270889804222464

    Well when Greg Norman is involved, why question it?
    Are we sure he didn't give Turnbull Alec Baldwin's number as a joke?
  • Options
    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

    My point is that the UK financial services industry - by and large although not universally - works prefer us to stay in the single market for financial services. They wish this because it avoids then incurring the triple costs of relocation, a worse regulatory environment, and the requirement to hold more capital*.

    If the British government needs to pay more to achieve this access than would otherwise be the case, then it seems only fair that those who benefit pick up at least a portion of this bill.

    * As in, both their Uk subsidiary and their EU one would need sufficient levels of capital to withstand loses, and this would mean the firm as a whole needed to hold more capital.
  • Options
    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    There is a general principle that tax is levied at such a rate to make the work worthless. Look at this link, http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/ and try to convince yourselves that German interests won't tax you to oblivion. The German government is likely to have to raise a great deal of money - extra defence spending of 30 billion euro at a minimum - extra contributions to make up for us leaving - help for Greece - help for Italy perhaps. If we accept a foreign government can tax us we will be the biggest mugs in the world.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    It wasn't so long ago that professional people here were explaining that the tobin tax would drive the market here to America. It seems certain that the tobin tax will go through now. If so, what are the advantages of staying in for the banks?

    Of course, the Uk is probably the only country in the world that has shady implemented the Tobin tax. You didn't know? It's called stamp duty. The current EU proposal (which I suspect still won't happen) is basically the UK's stamp duty with a couple of other asset classes tacked on. (Although now government bonds and their derivatives have been taken out, it has become essentially worthless.)
    There is a little irony here concerning Stamp Duty. Following the fighting in North America during the Seven years war, a significant British garrisson was deemed nessecary. Stamp Duty had existed in England since the Seventeenth Century, and at the conclusion of the war was extended to the American Colonies so they would at least pay something towards the costs. This led to the Stamp Act Congress and the 13 Colonies developing significant anti British feeling, hence "No taxation without representation".

    This is generally held to be one of the "unfair" taxes that led to the Colonies violently seperating from the UK, aided by finance and troops from Britains great imperial rival. While the frogs suceeded in seperating the Angloshphere, the financial costs of doing so were a factor in bringing on the French Revolution.

    Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin may well want to read their history so as to avoid repeating the mistake, or on the other hand may not...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The immobilising effect of Brexit extends everywhere.

    In theory, that would change if there were a general election that spelled out the government’s terms and in which May won a mandate for them. That’s why, with the Tories enjoying robust poll leads over Labour, there is recurrent talk about an early election. But the Conservatives face an insurmountable problem. Even if there were no other impediments to an early election, such as the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, they cannot call one without an agreement on Brexit terms over which they are split. So, no election.

    The government is increasingly paralysed over Brexit. There aren’t hundreds of Tory backbench zealots who want to turn their backs completely on an EU deal; but there are enough to make any such deal too divisive to risk


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/mps-hard-brexit-progressives-parliament
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    rcs1000 said:

    slade said:

    I have just spent 24 hours in Richmond Park. Some observations:
    in many parts of the constituency you would not know there was a by election taking place
    but there are exceptions - Petersham Rd has a fine array of posters
    in terms of stakeboards the Lib Dems are leading Zac by 10 to 1 but window posters are more even
    Labour has opened an office about 50 yards from the Lib Dem HQ - it has 4 desks visible with computers but only two people in attendance
    Zac is holding meetings in pubs - this morning in the Coach and Horses in Kew with about 30 mostly elderly people in attendance
    I drove past a blue plaque in honour of Richard Dimbleby
    Sarah Olney had a photo op at the London Wetlands Centre
    No idea who is going to win.

    One of my colleagues is a labour member and has been helping the LibDems in Richmond. They reckon it'll be Zac by 2,000 votes
    He/she risks expulsion by doing that!
  • Options

    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.

    That's like arguing the UK government can expel Jews from the UK now because of the edict of expulsion in 1290
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    slade said:

    I have just spent 24 hours in Richmond Park. Some observations:
    in many parts of the constituency you would not know there was a by election taking place
    but there are exceptions - Petersham Rd has a fine array of posters
    in terms of stakeboards the Lib Dems are leading Zac by 10 to 1 but window posters are more even
    Labour has opened an office about 50 yards from the Lib Dem HQ - it has 4 desks visible with computers but only two people in attendance
    Zac is holding meetings in pubs - this morning in the Coach and Horses in Kew with about 30 mostly elderly people in attendance
    I drove past a blue plaque in honour of Richard Dimbleby
    Sarah Olney had a photo op at the London Wetlands Centre
    No idea who is going to win.

    One of my colleagues is a labour member and has been helping the LibDems in Richmond. They reckon it'll be Zac by 2,000 votes
    He/she risks expulsion by doing that!
    Party before everything else, eh?
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

    My point is that the UK financial services industry - by and large although not universally - works prefer us to stay in the single market for financial services. They wish this because it avoids then incurring the triple costs of relocation, a worse regulatory environment, and the requirement to hold more capital*.

    If the British government needs to pay more to achieve this access than would otherwise be the case, then it seems only fair that those who benefit pick up at least a portion of this bill.

    * As in, both their Uk subsidiary and their EU one would need sufficient levels of capital to withstand loses, and this would mean the firm as a whole needed to hold more capital.
    Yes, but the electorate have two basic beliefs in relation to banking and the EU.

    The bankers are unscrupulous and 'bankrupted' the country and the EU is an appalling organisation that is taking advantage of Britain.

    At voting level, it's likely to look very bad for the government - paying to protect bankers (even if passed off as a bankers' levy) whilst letting the EU get away with whatever it wants.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    PAW said:

    There is a general principle that tax is levied at such a rate to make the work worthless. Look at this link, http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/ and try to convince yourselves that German interests won't tax you to oblivion. The German government is likely to have to raise a great deal of money - extra defence spending of 30 billion euro at a minimum - extra contributions to make up for us leaving - help for Greece - help for Italy perhaps. If we accept a foreign government can tax us we will be the biggest mugs in the world.

    I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that - if we accept a higher fee for accessing the Single Market than would otherwise be the case - the beneficiaries should shoulder some of the costs rather than it falling on the country as a whole. We would implement and administer a tax.

    Think of it like the reverse of giving Nissan subsidies.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    slade said:

    I have just spent 24 hours in Richmond Park. Some observations:
    in many parts of the constituency you would not know there was a by election taking place
    but there are exceptions - Petersham Rd has a fine array of posters
    in terms of stakeboards the Lib Dems are leading Zac by 10 to 1 but window posters are more even
    Labour has opened an office about 50 yards from the Lib Dem HQ - it has 4 desks visible with computers but only two people in attendance
    Zac is holding meetings in pubs - this morning in the Coach and Horses in Kew with about 30 mostly elderly people in attendance
    I drove past a blue plaque in honour of Richard Dimbleby
    Sarah Olney had a photo op at the London Wetlands Centre
    No idea who is going to win.

    One of my colleagues is a labour member and has been helping the LibDems in Richmond. They reckon it'll be Zac by 2,000 votes
    He/she risks expulsion by doing that!
    Party before everything else, eh?
    I do not belong to any party, but to me it does not seem unreasonable that campaigning against your own candidate should lead to expulsion.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.

    That's like arguing the UK government can expel Jews from the UK now because of the edict of expulsion in 1290
    It was the supposedly narrow minded Oliver Cromwell that resored the right to return to Jews in Britain in 1656. He was much more tolerant than Stuart Royalist propaganda allows.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    PAW said:

    There is a general principle that tax is levied at such a rate to make the work worthless. Look at this link, http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/ and try to convince yourselves that German interests won't tax you to oblivion. The German government is likely to have to raise a great deal of money - extra defence spending of 30 billion euro at a minimum - extra contributions to make up for us leaving - help for Greece - help for Italy perhaps. If we accept a foreign government can tax us we will be the biggest mugs in the world.

    It is worth remembering that German government debt to GDP is low and falling (it's 30% below ours as a percentage of GDP) so they have plenty of ability to pay for defence without blowing a hole in their budgets.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

    My point is that the UK financial services industry - by and large although not universally - works prefer us to stay in the single market for financial services. They wish this because it avoids then incurring the triple costs of relocation, a worse regulatory environment, and the requirement to hold more capital*.

    If the British government needs to pay more to achieve this access than would otherwise be the case, then it seems only fair that those who benefit pick up at least a portion of this bill.

    * As in, both their Uk subsidiary and their EU one would need sufficient levels of capital to withstand loses, and this would mean the firm as a whole needed to hold more capital.
    Yes, but the electorate have two basic beliefs in relation to banking and the EU.

    The bankers are unscrupulous and 'bankrupted' the country and the EU is an appalling organisation that is taking advantage of Britain.

    At voting level, it's likely to look very bad for the government - paying to protect bankers (even if passed off as a bankers' levy) whilst letting the EU get away with whatever it wants.
    I think losing billions of pounds of revenue from the financial services industry in the Uk would be worse but your mileage may vary.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,800
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:
    Hard to enforce given that if we don't like the terms we just drop out after two years...
    They are probably just annoyed that they'll be contributing even more after we leave ;)
    I suspect they won't; I expect we'll get almost exactly what we want (no ECJ in domestic law, passporting, limits on migration) except it will come with a stonking great bill. (Which will be partly paid for by a special Global Financial Institutions Levy.)
    No-one knows of course. My own wild guesses:

    No direct ECJ oversight over UK domestic law but we will be obliged to implement EU directives to into UK domestic law to comply with the treaties and the EU will have some compliance checking mechanism. That last bit is missing from the Swiss bilaterals and it exercises the EU no end. No passporting - our finance industry is too big a prize for other countries to pass up. If that's the case there will be limits on migration, but the EU will want to formalise a reciprocal set of limits the other way. It may be more an agreement to set a different policy rather than us doing whatever we feel like - while we are still in treaties with the EU. We stay in the Customs Union - otherwise the Nissan commitment comes unstuck. And then we get onto agriculture, which will dominate everything. The EU has a large trading surplus with us on agricultural products which it will want to continue, but the forum for those talks will largely be at the WTO where we need to negotiate our schedules with third parties. The EU will also be working their relationships.

    The contributions bill will be set at a level that doesn't derail the deal.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.

    That's like arguing the UK government can expel Jews from the UK now because of the edict of expulsion in 1290
    It was the supposedly narrow minded Oliver Cromwell that resored the right to return to Jews in Britain in 1656. He was much more tolerant than Stuart Royalist propaganda allows.
    You are lucky JackW has taken a leave of absence! ;)
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

    My point is that the UK financial services industry - by and large although not universally - works prefer us to stay in the single market for financial services. They wish this because it avoids then incurring the triple costs of relocation, a worse regulatory environment, and the requirement to hold more capital*.

    If the British government needs to pay more to achieve this access than would otherwise be the case, then it seems only fair that those who benefit pick up at least a portion of this bill.

    * As in, both their Uk subsidiary and their EU one would need sufficient levels of capital to withstand loses, and this would mean the firm as a whole needed to hold more capital.
    Yes, but the electorate have two basic beliefs in relation to banking and the EU.

    The bankers are unscrupulous and 'bankrupted' the country and the EU is an appalling organisation that is taking advantage of Britain.

    At voting level, it's likely to look very bad for the government - paying to protect bankers (even if passed off as a bankers' levy) whilst letting the EU get away with whatever it wants.
    I think losing billions of pounds of revenue from the financial services industry in the Uk would be worse but your mileage may vary.
    There is an economy beyond financial services, and way beyond the EU. The Europeans make £100bn a year from us using it for goods.

    Why shouldn't they pay?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    There is a general principle that tax is levied at such a rate to make the work worthless. Look at this link, http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/ and try to convince yourselves that German interests won't tax you to oblivion. The German government is likely to have to raise a great deal of money - extra defence spending of 30 billion euro at a minimum - extra contributions to make up for us leaving - help for Greece - help for Italy perhaps. If we accept a foreign government can tax us we will be the biggest mugs in the world.

    It is worth remembering that German government debt to GDP is low and falling (it's 30% below ours as a percentage of GDP) so they have plenty of ability to pay for defence without blowing a hole in their budgets.
    isn't that what the British government thought in respect of the 13 Colonies in 1765?

    It may well be that Germany may not want, or need to spend that much on defence. The rEU does have a GDP of 7 times Russia in PPP terms, so eaual sized forces would bankrupt Russia first.

    Though Putin's troll farms and Wikileaks have demonstrated a lot of bang for their buck.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.

    That's like arguing the UK government can expel Jews from the UK now because of the edict of expulsion in 1290
    It was the supposedly narrow minded Oliver Cromwell that resored the right to return to Jews in Britain in 1656. He was much more tolerant than Stuart Royalist propaganda allows.
    You are lucky JackW has taken a leave of absence! ;)
    I think the JackW fine pie factory has converted to produce only humble pie!

    Though if everyone on PB left when they got a prediction wrong, there would be nearly no-one left, and the few that were would be insufferable!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    'Trump Surrogate Advocates a Legal “Precedent” for Muslim Registry—Japanese Internment'

    http://tinyurl.com/guqkczy

    Rhetoric, blah blah, surrogate, blah blah, wait and see, blah blah.

    That's like arguing the UK government can expel Jews from the UK now because of the edict of expulsion in 1290
    It was the supposedly narrow minded Oliver Cromwell that resored the right to return to Jews in Britain in 1656. He was much more tolerant than Stuart Royalist propaganda allows.
    You are lucky JackW has taken a leave of absence! ;)
    I think the JackW fine pie factory has converted to produce only humble pie!

    Though if everyone on PB left when they got a prediction wrong, there would be nearly no-one left, and the few that were would be insufferable!
    Yeah, hopefully he pops backs soon!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    I can understand the EU trying to charge a bank for access to their market - but why do you think the tax payer will pay it for them?

    The point is that if we (the Uk) have to pay to stay in the single market for financial services, then it makes most sense for the beneficiaries of that to pick up at least some of the bill.
    Presumably we'll be charging them similarly on goods?

    If not, that would be one of the most ridiculously insane options ever put before a eurosceptic electorate.

    My point is that the UK financial services industry - by and large although not universally - works prefer us to stay in the single market for financial services. They wish this because it avoids then incurring the triple costs of relocation, a worse regulatory environment, and the requirement to hold more capital*.

    If the British government needs to pay more to achieve this access than would otherwise be the case, then it seems only fair that those who benefit pick up at least a portion of this bill.

    * As in, both their Uk subsidiary and their EU one would need sufficient levels of capital to withstand loses, and this would mean the firm as a whole needed to hold more capital.
    Yes, but the electorate have two basic beliefs in relation to banking and the EU.

    The bankers are unscrupulous and 'bankrupted' the country and the EU is an appalling organisation that is taking advantage of Britain.

    At voting level, it's likely to look very bad for the government - paying to protect bankers (even if passed off as a bankers' levy) whilst letting the EU get away with whatever it wants.
    I think losing billions of pounds of revenue from the financial services industry in the Uk would be worse but your mileage may vary.
    There is an economy beyond financial services, and way beyond the EU. The Europeans make £100bn a year from us using it for goods.

    Why shouldn't they pay?
    If we want to conclude a free trade deal like CETA, then nobody would be paying anybody anything*. If we wish for firms in the UK to sell financial services products to entities in the EEA as if they were EEA-domiciled then the EU will extract a price.

    Remember, our trade deficit is both a strength and a weakness. While it makes us attractive as a partner, it also makes our economy vulnerable to external shocks. It is us, not the EU, that is dependent on the kindness of strangers to pay the bills.

    * Actually Canada will write a cheque to the EU for the costs associated with the administration of CETA, albeit a small one.
  • Options
    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799372160523452421
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799372160523452421

    Bed by midnight? ;)
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    RobD said:

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799372160523452421

    Bed by midnight? ;)
    Yeah, hectic weekend coming up.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    It'll only turn out to be a footballer sex story.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Though the German government is paying 1 point something on defence - I am not sure they have bought much with it. Their F125 frigates appear to be as powerless as the LCS. The German airforce was reported a few months ago as having only 6 typhoons servicable. I don't think they have replaced the melting rifle either.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    It'll only turn out to be a footballer sex story.
    Could be Ed Balls taking performance "enhancing" drugs for Strictly :o
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    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799372160523452421

    Ooohhhhh a scandal....rubs paws and cackles.
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    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    It'll only turn out to be a footballer sex story.
    I'm hoping it is the story about [famous politician] performing [moderated] on prostitutes who turned out to Russian strippers who were men on actual live horses.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    It'll only turn out to be a footballer sex story.
    I'm hoping it is the story about [famous politician] performing [moderated] on prostitutes who turned out to Russian strippers who were men on actual live horses.
    But that surely happens to all of us? Doesn't it??
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2016
    The white space is whatever is embargoed.

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799374562710421504
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PAW said:

    Though the German government is paying 1 point something on defence - I am not sure they have bought much with it. Their F125 frigates appear to be as powerless as the LCS. The German airforce was reported a few months ago as having only 6 typhoons servicable. I don't think they have replaced the melting rifle either.

    They need to smarten up with what they buy, but the same could be said of most countries. Carriers with no planes escorted by ships with no anti-ship missiles for instance.
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    RobD said:

    'Kin hell, I wanted an early night tonight

    It'll only turn out to be a footballer sex story.
    I'm hoping it is the story about [famous politician] performing [moderated] on prostitutes who turned out to Russian strippers who were men on actual live horses.
    But that surely happens to all of us? Doesn't it??
    Something similar happened to me when I arranged my mate's stag do.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    Not sure SeanT has used this grisly ending in a novel yet:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38018209
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    RobD said:

    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    I know the Three mobile thing isn't the story as it is on the front page of the Telegraph front page, which has another story embargoed out
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2016
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    I know the Three mobile thing isn't the story as it is on the front page of the Telegraph front page, which has another story embargoed out
    I'm clearly blind :D

    Must be a big story... surprised it hasn't leaked out on twitter given the number of papers with it (although maybe it has in some corners).
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Nice Daily Mirror front page!
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    The front page of The Mirror looks like the response to an FOI request I made last year

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799376387186561024
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147


    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    It's unusual for this kind of thing not to leak, especially as it seems everyone is running it.

    Is it just the previous super-embargo that's common knowledge expiring?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    The front page of The Mirror looks like the response to an FOI request I made last year

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/799376387186561024

    That, or a massive TippEx spillage.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Are we going to lose the game again?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2016
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    I know the Three mobile thing isn't the story as it is on the front page of the Telegraph front page, which has another story embargoed out
    I'm clearly blind :D

    Must be a big story... surprised it hasn't leaked out on twitter given the number of papers with it (although maybe it has in some corners).
    There's been no major moves on any of the major political betting markets in the last few hours.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    I know the Three mobile thing isn't the story as it is on the front page of the Telegraph front page, which has another story embargoed out
    I'm clearly blind :D

    Must be a big story... surprised it hasn't leaked out on twitter given the number of papers with it (although maybe it has in some corners).
    There's no major moves on any of the major political betting markets.
    On a totally unrelated note, where is OGH?
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    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    It's unusual for this kind of thing not to leak, especially as it seems everyone is running it.

    Is it just the previous super-embargo that's common knowledge expiring?
    Let's not speculate.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    Surely all the embargos are simply reviews of The Grand Tour.
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    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    Certainly most informative ...
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    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    OK (I assume that means you know?). Thought it might be because of the exclusive tag, but the Times have the embargoed story too.
    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    I know the Three mobile thing isn't the story as it is on the front page of the Telegraph front page, which has another story embargoed out
    I'm clearly blind :D

    Must be a big story... surprised it hasn't leaked out on twitter given the number of papers with it (although maybe it has in some corners).
    There's no major moves on any of the major political betting markets.
    On a totally unrelated note, where is OGH?
    Busy on twitter
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,901

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    The post midnight one is superb
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073


    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    It's unusual for this kind of thing not to leak, especially as it seems everyone is running it.

    Is it just the previous super-embargo that's common knowledge expiring?
    Let's not speculate.
    The one about the cabinet minister and the frog?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    Blizzards in northern England?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    The post midnight one is superb
    Oh shit - lol
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    Awight? Must be a Barrymore story.
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    For once im glad I have a lot of reading to do before bed...see you all at midnight.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    Looks like something is coming out at Midnight then? Place your best now?
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    The French Republicains Primary gets closer and closer

    Latest poll: IFOP
    http://www.la-croix.com/France/Politique/Primaire-Juppe-Sarkozy-Fillon-coude-coude-avant-1er-tour-2016-11-17-1300803980

    Juppe 31 (-2) / Sarkozy 30 (=) / Fillon 27 (+7) - The changes are from last week.

    Second round
    Juppe 57 / Sarkozy 43
    Fillon 63 / Sarkozy 37
    Juppe 50 / Fillon 50

    The dynamic stays the same (Juppe down, Sarkozy flat, Fillon up) and it seems that we are nowwithin the margins of error for the first round.

    The debate tonight was a bit dull, not sure it will have changed strongly the momentum.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2016
    I can't believe the secret recipe for my salad dressing is such a big deal. But my lawyers said the case has been lost so...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    The post midnight one is superb
    Do you know what the story is BJO?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Alistair said:

    I can't believe the secret recipe for my salad dressing is such a big deal. But my lawyers said the case has been lost so...

    Is the secret ingredient (disgustingly) ground game?

    I'll get my coat... :D
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073

    The French Republicains Primary gets closer and closer

    Latest poll: IFOP
    http://www.la-croix.com/France/Politique/Primaire-Juppe-Sarkozy-Fillon-coude-coude-avant-1er-tour-2016-11-17-1300803980

    Juppe 31 (-2) / Sarkozy 30 (=) / Fillon 27 (+7) - The changes are from last week.

    Second round
    Juppe 57 / Sarkozy 43
    Fillon 63 / Sarkozy 37
    Juppe 50 / Fillon 50

    The dynamic stays the same (Juppe down, Sarkozy flat, Fillon up) and it seems that we are nowwithin the margins of error for the first round.

    The debate tonight was a bit dull, not sure it will have changed strongly the momentum.

    I'm wondering if Fillon could do this; he's certainly the guy with the big 'mo at the moment.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    rcs1000 said:


    I don't what the story is, I've asked.

    It's unusual for this kind of thing not to leak, especially as it seems everyone is running it.

    Is it just the previous super-embargo that's common knowledge expiring?
    Let's not speculate.
    The one about the cabinet minister and the frog?
    There is a legit rumour doing the rounds about a former minister.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    We do love a bit of scandal and muck-racking on PB!

    Remember we're all in the gutter...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    is it a picture of Trumps new America?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Love the mirrors front page - best in years ;-)
    is it a picture of Trumps new America?
    After the nukes ;-)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073
    So, who's watching the Grand Tour at midnight?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can't believe the secret recipe for my salad dressing is such a big deal. But my lawyers said the case has been lost so...

    Is the secret ingredient (disgustingly) ground game?

    I'll get my coat... :D
    Yea, the secret is to actually use the ground game rather than pretend the entire state doesn't exist.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited November 2016
    Alistair said:

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can't believe the secret recipe for my salad dressing is such a big deal. But my lawyers said the case has been lost so...

    Is the secret ingredient (disgustingly) ground game?

    I'll get my coat... :D
    Yea, the secret is to actually use the ground game rather than pretend the entire state doesn't exist.
    :D

    (sorry for the tease!)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    rcs1000 said:

    So, who's watching the Grand Tour at midnight?

    I don't like that nasty loud-mouth Clarkson, so not me.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    We do love a bit of scandal and muck-racking on PB!

    Remember we're all in the gutter...

    My mind is never in the gutter.

    HONEST.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    So, who's watching the Grand Tour at midnight?

    Is it definitely available at the stroke of midnight?

    Btw red oaks...watched both seasons now...two thumbs up.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    GIN1138 said:

    We do love a bit of scandal and muck-racking on PB!

    Remember we're all in the gutter...

    My mind is never in the gutter.

    HONEST.
    Never out of it more like...
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147
    GIN1138 said:

    Remember we're all in the gutter...

    But some of us are looking at the ARSE.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    So, who's watching the Grand Tour at midnight?

    Is it definitely available at the stroke of midnight?
    One minute past midnight
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    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    We do love a bit of scandal and muck-racking on PB!

    Remember we're all in the gutter...

    My mind is never in the gutter.

    HONEST.
    Never out of it more like...
    I'm a former public schoolboy, I'm a paragon of virtue.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,073

    rcs1000 said:

    So, who's watching the Grand Tour at midnight?

    Is it definitely available at the stroke of midnight?

    Btw red oaks...watched both seasons now...two thumbs up.
    The senior tennis coach is my new role model.
This discussion has been closed.