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  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:

    https://twitter.com/CatSmithMP/status/783964235974008832

    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    I'd imagine that they show the shiny new ones to the bankers and investors that they need to keep sweet and then use the North to "sweat the assets"
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,926
    edited October 2016
    @JackW

    Am very perturbed by the news that humans can't live beyond the age of 125.

    I had been lead to believe you were 130 at least!

    What gives? :open_mouth:
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JackW said:

    Barnesian said:

    That Arizona poll looks good for Clinton.

    Jobabob said:

    The AZ poll will scare Trump.

    Texas might be worth a longshot wager.

    Alistair said:

    Emerson are a phone only poller that doesn't call mobiles. If it they are getting the numbers right it is purely by chance.

    The Trump Arizona visit is a clear sign of danger. Texas is out of range this cycle and probably in 2020 but will become a purple state by 2024.

    Emerson are 538 "B" rated so should not be discounted lightly.

    There's a Trump support amongst Latinos poll just out that I don't have to hand but IIRC it had Trump support at 11%

    Unwinnable if true.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Doubt it'll shift a vote, but it stinks

    The trove of roughly 200 pages of records made public Wednesday was just the latest and most convincing indication that, rather than operate as an independent organization, the Clinton Foundation leaned heavily on the State Department to expand its global reach.

    But authorities are unlikely to take any action against Clinton or her staff, despite the fact that they violated a Memorandum of Understanding with the White House in which they had pledged to avoid the appearance of conflicts with the foundation.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-emails-show-intersection-of-clinton-foundation-state-dept.-paid-speeches/article/2603780?custom_click=rss
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016
    Before any Labour people get too far onto their high horse about the latest Conservative policies on immigration, I think I should just remind them of this

    image
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    I hope Betfair exchange do the same.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2016
    Charles said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    *snip*

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    I'd imagine that they show the shiny new ones to the bankers and investors that they need to keep sweet and then use the North to "sweat the assets"
    That's a pretty accurate paraphrase of what he said (although politicians and DOT officials were also mentioned as being important to "keep sweet").
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    @Indigo - I can't get animated about it. The furore over the immigration pledges has more than a whiff of the Waffen SS and the EPP that we heard when Cameron created the ECR back in 2009.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    PlatoSaid said:

    Doubt it'll shift a vote, but it stinks

    The trove of roughly 200 pages of records made public Wednesday was just the latest and most convincing indication that, rather than operate as an independent organization, the Clinton Foundation leaned heavily on the State Department to expand its global reach.

    But authorities are unlikely to take any action against Clinton or her staff, despite the fact that they violated a Memorandum of Understanding with the White House in which they had pledged to avoid the appearance of conflicts with the foundation.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-emails-show-intersection-of-clinton-foundation-state-dept.-paid-speeches/article/2603780?custom_click=rss

    As John Oliver said, Clinton may have some 'raisins' of dodginess about about. maybe more than a average politican. But compared with Trump.....

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    The "register" bit seems to have materialised from somewhere other than the speech, which only talked about tracking the numbers of people of different nationalities, much as they currently do for race, gender etc. It's probably quite reasonable to expect the company inform immigration who they are employing so that it can be matched up against what was claimed on the visa application.

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    GIN1138 said:

    @JackW

    Am very perturbed by the news that humans can't live beyond the age of 125.

    I had been lead to believe you were 130 at least!

    What gives? :open_mouth:

    Jacobites do it better .... :sunglasses:
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,863
    Mortimer said:
    While I think the "British jobs for British workers" slogan stupid, it's a bit much to call it "fucking racist", particularly when your own arrangements discriminate (quite reasonably) on grounds of origin...

    "The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay these fees if you meet eligibility conditions; for example, if you are a Scottish resident and/or a qualifying non-UK EC student.
    If you come from the Rest of the UK (RUK), universities in Scotland will charge you variable fees up to a maximum of £9,000 just like England and Wales...."
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Incidentally, for believers in Freedom of Movement. When we are outside the EU why should the EU countries be entitled to FoM and yet non-EU countries of which we will be one should not be entitled to FoM ? What makes EU Countries special when we are not in the EU anymore ?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2016
    Alistair said:

    There's a Trump support amongst Latinos poll just out that I don't have to hand but IIRC it had Trump support at 11%

    Unwinnable if true.

    Indeed so. I posted it this morning at 6:59am. You had the next post !! .. :smile:

    National/Florida/Miami-Dade - Latino Voters - Florida University/New Latino Voice

    National - Clinton 83.2 .. Trump 10.6
    Florida - Clinton 76.5 .. Trump 17.6
    Miami-Dade - 71.3 .. 20.0

    Note - Post debate slump for Trump. Overall running over 15 points worse than Romney. Trump cannot win Florida on these numbers.

    http://latinousa.org/2016/10/05/national-post-debate-tracking-poll-latino-voters-clinton-83-support/
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    UKIP looks like it's on the brink of disintegration to me.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:

    https://twitter.com/CatSmithMP/status/783964235974008832

    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Is it me or has Pence given Trump a bit of a boost in the polls?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    UKIP looks like it's on the brink of disintegration to me.

    Woolfe might well be on the phone to Patrick McLoughlin as soon as he is able.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Looks like there could be serious legal things happening with this UKIP story, so might be worth being careful with what we post.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    JackW said:

    Alistair said:

    There's a Trump support amongst Latinos poll just out that I don't have to hand but IIRC it had Trump support at 11%

    Unwinnable if true.

    Indeed so. I posted it this morning at 6:59am. You had the next post !! .. :smile:

    National/Florida/Miami-Dade - Latino Voters - Florida University/New Latino Voice

    National - Clinton 83.2 .. Trump 10.6
    Florida - Clinton 76.5 .. Trump 17.6
    Miami-Dade - 71.3 .. 20.0

    Note - Post debate slump for Trump. Overall running over 15 points worse than Romney. Trump cannot win Florida on these numbers.

    http://latinousa.org/2016/10/05/national-post-debate-tracking-poll-latino-voters-clinton-83-support/
    When Plato is being pushed back into posting polls from South Carolina, you know Trump is in trouble.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    I think UKIP are probably close to giving up the ghost here.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    Indigo said:

    UKIP looks like it's on the brink of disintegration to me.

    Woolfe might well be on the phone to Patrick McLoughlin as soon as he is able.
    In my view if it looks like Farage is the only one who can hold it together, he will stand again.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Indigo said:

    UKIP looks like it's on the brink of disintegration to me.

    Woolfe might well be on the phone to Patrick McLoughlin as soon as he is able.
    In my view if it looks like Farage is the only one who can hold it together, he will stand again.
    My 10/1 is looking good in that case.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2016
    Jobabob said:

    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:
    *snip*
    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
    That would explain the need for *more* trains, not the need for *newer* ones.

    The ROSCO chap was quite clear as to the reason it was done: "nobody [important] cares about the trains in the North"
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016
    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    No, that's the Conservatives you are thinking of, remember, Cameron, renegotiation, attempts to sell a pig in a poke, back of the queue, punishment budgets, all that ?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,456
    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,445
    "Altercation"

    Blimmin' heck
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
    Add it to the visa terms. "By accepting this visa you agree to the treasury sharing your job and earnings data with the UK border force" or something along those lines.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,456
    Anorak said:

    Jobabob said:

    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:
    *snip*
    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
    That would explain the need for *more* trains, not the need for *newer* ones.

    The ROSCO chap was quite clear as to the reason it was done: "nobody [important] cares about the trains in the North"
    Do not fret, Andy Burnham is on his way.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I think UKIP are probably close to giving up the ghost here. ''

    There is a brand there and somebody will carry it on.
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    UKIP looks like it's on the brink of disintegration to me.

    Woolfe might well be on the phone to Patrick McLoughlin as soon as he is able.
    I hope Mr Woolfe gets well soon and then gets on the phone to Prescott for some boxing lessons.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,456
    MaxPB said:

    I think UKIP are probably close to giving up the ghost here.

    which means Banks will fund something else, possibly something rather nasty.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    edited October 2016

    Anorak said:

    Jobabob said:

    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:
    *snip*
    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
    That would explain the need for *more* trains, not the need for *newer* ones.

    The ROSCO chap was quite clear as to the reason it was done: "nobody [important] cares about the trains in the North"
    Do not fret, Andy Burnham is on his way.
    He said important, not spineless. ;)
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    ttps://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/783905331780825089

    http://workinsrilanka.lk/immigration/

    LOL
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
    My son turned one month earlier this week. So far, he's lived through three UKIP leaderships.
  • Options
    And I thought I didn't react well to defectors

    @LOS_Fisher: Ukip sources claim a party MEP punched Steven Woolfe several times following a charged meeting, as MEPs angry he was considering defection
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Anorak said:

    Jobabob said:

    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:
    *snip*
    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
    That would explain the need for *more* trains, not the need for *newer* ones.

    The ROSCO chap was quite clear as to the reason it was done: "nobody [important] cares about the trains in the North"
    If they're not new, they've got to come from somewhere else.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
    My son turned one month earlier this week. So far, he's lived through three UKIP leaderships.
    He should stand, he might bring the sense and experience they need.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Woolfe has 'bleeding on the brain' after the altercation in meeting with fellow UKIP MEPs, Sky sources say
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    PlatoSaid said:

    Doubt it'll shift a vote, but it stinks

    The trove of roughly 200 pages of records made public Wednesday was just the latest and most convincing indication that, rather than operate as an independent organization, the Clinton Foundation leaned heavily on the State Department to expand its global reach.

    But authorities are unlikely to take any action against Clinton or her staff, despite the fact that they violated a Memorandum of Understanding with the White House in which they had pledged to avoid the appearance of conflicts with the foundation.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-emails-show-intersection-of-clinton-foundation-state-dept.-paid-speeches/article/2603780?custom_click=rss

    As John Oliver said, Clinton may have some 'raisins' of dodginess about about. maybe more than a average politican. But compared with Trump.....

    memorandum of understanding isnt a legal document i understand. And yes, nothing compared to the trump foundation
  • Options

    Steven Swinford@Steven_Swinford
    Steven Woolfe reportedly suffering bleeding of the brain after falling into window following punch by colleague
  • Options
    Sky reporting Steve Woolfe in hospital with bleeding on the brain after an altercation at a UKIP meeting. Dreadful news if true
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    And I thought I didn't react well to defectors

    @LOS_Fisher: Ukip sources claim a party MEP punched Steven Woolfe several times following a charged meeting, as MEPs angry he was considering defection

    Careful. If Woolfe has a head injury several hours after the event, it might not end well.
  • Options
    Anorak said:

    Jobabob said:

    eek said:

    Anorak said:

    dr_spyn said:

    A trainspotter writes:
    *snip*
    Still trying to work out her message re fracking and Type 3 diesels.

    Having spoken to an investor in one of the ROSCOs, it's seemingly common practice to introduce new rolling stock to the SE of England, and then ship the replaced crap oop north.

    As a northerner, I was a bit taken aback by how brazenly this was stated, and apparently implemented.
    There are some coach companies that do the same. It's remarkable how many coaches I see on the roads that were formally King's Ferry (daily commute by coach from Medway to London).
    Probably because rail usage is far higher in the SE, the trains get hammered down here. Around 70% of all rail journeys in the UK are made with London/SE operators or something ridiculous like that.
    That would explain the need for *more* trains, not the need for *newer* ones.

    The ROSCO chap was quite clear as to the reason it was done: "nobody [important] cares about the trains in the North"
    Surely its more to do with the train operators?

    Virgin Trains in the North (even those not going to London) seem to be pristine in my limited experience. That's surely because Virgin are paying for better stock, if other operators aren't that's surely their choice?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    JackW said:

    Alistair said:

    There's a Trump support amongst Latinos poll just out that I don't have to hand but IIRC it had Trump support at 11%

    Unwinnable if true.

    Indeed so. I posted it this morning at 6:59am. You had the next post !! .. :smile:

    National/Florida/Miami-Dade - Latino Voters - Florida University/New Latino Voice

    National - Clinton 83.2 .. Trump 10.6
    Florida - Clinton 76.5 .. Trump 17.6
    Miami-Dade - 71.3 .. 20.0

    Note - Post debate slump for Trump. Overall running over 15 points worse than Romney. Trump cannot win Florida on these numbers.

    http://latinousa.org/2016/10/05/national-post-debate-tracking-poll-latino-voters-clinton-83-support/
    ha. you mean running a racist campaign and calling a hispanic woman 'Ms housekeeping' while feuding with her for a week doesnt help???
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,445
    edited October 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
    Add it to the visa terms. "By accepting this visa you agree to the treasury sharing your job and earnings data with the UK border force" or something along those lines.
    Whatever method the government uses to bring down immigration it will be rough around the edges, compared with what we have today certainly for EU citizens. Registers, tracking, data sharing...all seems, oh the irony, un-British.

    But the government has been charged, seriously this time, to bring down immigration. There will be new laws..and like them, you should perhaps heed Otto's advice about sausages....
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Wow this is looking very serious. Could be GBH or the Belgian equivalent.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713


    Steven Swinford@Steven_Swinford
    Steven Woolfe reportedly suffering bleeding of the brain after falling into window following punch by colleague

    And so, here endth UKIP as a politcal force. Hope the guy pulls through.
  • Options
    Terrible news about Woolfe, that's shocking.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Soros has some "interesting" views today

    https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article158525160/Fluechtlinge-in-der-EU-am-Ende-rechnet-sich-das.html

    Thirdly, the EU must open up sufficient funds to finance a comprehensive migration policy. It is estimated that at least 30 billion euros are needed annually for this purpose for a number of years.

    Fourthly, the EU needs common mechanisms for the protection of the borders, the decision of asylum applications develop and to resettle refugees. A single European asylum procedure would reduce the incentives for asylum tourism and restore trust between Member States.


  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Looks like there could be serious legal things happening with this UKIP story, so might be worth being careful with what we post.

    From the Press Association, quoting a reputable source (at least in this context). How the hell do you hold a civilised contest against that backdrop, even if Woolfe's condition turns out to be better than reported. God help them if it's worse.

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/783997110999998464?lang=en-gb
  • Options
    Tragic and farcical
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
    Add it to the visa terms. "By accepting this visa you agree to the treasury sharing your job and earnings data with the UK border force" or something along those lines.
    Doubt that the NI database is set up to allow selective sharing
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Indigo said:

    Soros has some "interesting" views today

    https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article158525160/Fluechtlinge-in-der-EU-am-Ende-rechnet-sich-das.html

    Thirdly, the EU must open up sufficient funds to finance a comprehensive migration policy. It is estimated that at least 30 billion euros are needed annually for this purpose for a number of years.

    Fourthly, the EU needs common mechanisms for the protection of the borders, the decision of asylum applications develop and to resettle refugees. A single European asylum procedure would reduce the incentives for asylum tourism and restore trust between Member States.


    As ever the solution is "more EU". They have a tin ear.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,456
    Osborne is writing a book, "the age of unreason". Shame the title has been used by Charles Handy, but it was a while ago.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Indigo said:

    ttps://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/783905331780825089

    http://workinsrilanka.lk/immigration/

    LOL
    I think the outrage bus has gone off the rails on this issue - mixed mets intended! Sadly it sums up very neatly the failure of the liberal left here to engage with the serious issue of immigration without screaming 'racism ' at every opportunity. And I speak as a centrist Remain voter!!
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    Surely the visa will state what terms are on it and the employer will need to take a copy of the visa as proof of right to work?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
    Add it to the visa terms. "By accepting this visa you agree to the treasury sharing your job and earnings data with the UK border force" or something along those lines.
    Doubt that the NI database is set up to allow selective sharing
    It should be, otherwise how did I get an automated tax letter saying I owe them money?
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    MaxPB said:

    Wow this is looking very serious. Could be GBH or the Belgian equivalent.

    Could be murder if it goes badly.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Woolfe has 'bleeding on the brain' after the altercation in meeting with fellow UKIP MEPs, Sky sources say

    Jesus Christ.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
    My son turned one month earlier this week. So far, he's lived through three UKIP leaderships.
    And at least one knockout apparently. [I hope by the way, that Mr woolfe is going to be ok]
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    Best wishes to Steven Woolfe, looks like the UKIP leadership is now a poisoned chalice
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Soros has some "interesting" views today

    https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article158525160/Fluechtlinge-in-der-EU-am-Ende-rechnet-sich-das.html

    Thirdly, the EU must open up sufficient funds to finance a comprehensive migration policy. It is estimated that at least 30 billion euros are needed annually for this purpose for a number of years.

    Fourthly, the EU needs common mechanisms for the protection of the borders, the decision of asylum applications develop and to resettle refugees. A single European asylum procedure would reduce the incentives for asylum tourism and restore trust between Member States.


    As ever the solution is "more EU". They have a tin ear.
    Not just that, he wants a 30bn euro per year fund, Germany only contributes 22bn euros per year in total, and we are about to stop paying, where is this money supposedly coming from ?
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    I can scarcely believe the Woolfe story. Best wishes to him and his family. A truly horrific turn of events.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Ishmael_X said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow this is looking very serious. Could be GBH or the Belgian equivalent.

    Could be murder if it goes badly.
    Oh dear, I hope not. This has become very ugly.
  • Options
    From Asa Bennett

    I'm told the "altercation" happened at a "clear the air" meeting Steven Woolfe held with MEPs this morning

    Ukip source says Woolfe and fellow MEP decided to "take it outside" after things got heated over reports he considered defecting

    Woolfe, I am told, "took off his jacket and invited him outside" - then there was the 'altercation'
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.

    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    That information is available in real time to the government via the NI database.
    Not sure that the Treasury shares it.
    Make them share it?
    Data protection. Need consent.
    Add it to the visa terms. "By accepting this visa you agree to the treasury sharing your job and earnings data with the UK border force" or something along those lines.
    Doubt that the NI database is set up to allow selective sharing
    It should be, otherwise how did I get an automated tax letter saying I owe them money?
    That's sending information to you as part of your personal communication.

    It's not saying I'm going to take the files on person A, E, G, H, I, K, P and Z and send them to a third party but not share other information.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
    My son turned one month earlier this week. So far, he's lived through three UKIP leaderships.
    He should stand, he might bring the sense and experience they need.
    I'm not sure he's qualified. He sole functions seem to be sleeping (rarely), shouting, and spreading shit.

    Then again ...
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One of the reasons I'm against the foreign workers register is it would have possibly discouraged accountancy firms from taking on people like my dad when he arrived from Africa, though maybe not him specifically because he was a British citizen. If people arrive here legally then companies that hire them shouldn't be penalised in any way.

    Additionally the idea if sending back highly skilled people to meet migration quotas is awful.

    I'm very much in favour of a simple three tier global system based on income and length of a person's stay.

    Tier 1 - £40k minimum income. 3 year work permit, additional £3k per dependent. Can be renewed twice before requiring the person to take up citizenship. No benefit rights.

    Tier 2 - £20k minimum income. 6 month work permit, can apply while in the UK, can move to a tier 1 visa if conditions for it are met within the 6 months. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Cannot be renewed.

    Tier 3 - no minimum income. Seasonal work permit, cannot move to other tier visas while in the UK. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Unable once per year.

    Student - money paid up front for the course, length timed to match the course. No dependent rights. No welfare rights. Can move to tier 1/2 visa at the end of the course as long as conditions are met.

    That would be a fair and uncomplicated overseas worker programme. One which no one could complain about, we'd still be able to bring in the very best. Seasonal workers would still be able to come and working holiday types could come easily too with the tier 2 visa.

    A foreign workers register doesn't feel right, but tracking nationality along with race/gender/religion/sexuality etc. to ensure that a particular nationality isn't being discriminated against in recruitment seems OK.
    I don't see why we should do any of that. Nothing there affects one's ability to work.
    It affects the ability to work legally. What happens if someone arrives on your T1 visa and gets sacked at the end of the first month because they were incompetent, they then get a job flipping burgers. If the burger restaurant doesn't check with immigration, how do they know he is not meeting the conditions of his visa.
    Surely the visa will state what terms are on it and the employer will need to take a copy of the visa as proof of right to work?
    Currently there is no penalty for the employer if they quietly ignore the visa and employ you anyway, that is one of the things Rudd was talking about introducing yesterday to screams of outrage from the members of the "Control of Immigration" mug party.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Sky reporting Steve Woolfe in hospital with bleeding on the brain after an altercation at a UKIP meeting. Dreadful news if true

    Terrible. Puts the "under duress" signature by Diane in a more sinister light.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Best wishes to Steven Woolfe, looks like the UKIP leadership is now a poisoned chalice

    With nutters like this in UKIP I have some sympathy for Diane James resigning.
  • Options
    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 3m3 minutes ago
    We have a name. Looking to confirm. His office and staff not answering phones. N.B. Makes your MEP look guilty.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    From Asa Bennett

    I'm told the "altercation" happened at a "clear the air" meeting Steven Woolfe held with MEPs this morning

    Ukip source says Woolfe and fellow MEP decided to "take it outside" after things got heated over reports he considered defecting

    Woolfe, I am told, "took off his jacket and invited him outside" - then there was the 'altercation'

    Madness... just crazy.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    SeanT said:

    The same policy suggested by Ed Miliband in 2012, and already used in America, and so on and so forth.

    It's the hysterical liberal Remainers who are damaging the UK brand, not the Tories.
    It's still a daft policy. Control the borders and you don't need to micromanage and shame firms internally.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,600
    Jobabob said:

    I can scarcely believe the Woolfe story. Best wishes to him and his family. A truly horrific turn of events.

    It's monstrous.

    I hope he makes a speedy recovery. Not sure UKIP can though.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    I don't think we should be taking lessons in cohesion from the PM of Sri Lanka..........
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    The same policy suggested by Ed Miliband in 2012, and already used in America, and so on and so forth.

    It's the hysterical liberal Remainers who are damaging the UK brand, not the Tories.
    They're not fit to polish the Tories' jackboots.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    new Fairleigh Dickinson national (live interview) national poll: Clinton 50%, Trump 40%. same 10-point margin in 4-way, 46%-36%

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,926
    Shocking news from Belgium.

    Will Nigel Farage wind the party up in light of this I wonder?
  • Options

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes
    BREAKING: Woolfe was reportedly punched by a UKIP colleague http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/steven-woolfe-collapses-european-parliament/

    woah....

    From the party that gave us Brexit.
    UKIP are doing more for popcorn sales this week than Labour.
    My son turned one month earlier this week. So far, he's lived through three UKIP leaderships.
    He should stand, he might bring the sense and experience they need.
    I'm not sure he's qualified. He sole functions seem to be sleeping (rarely), shouting, and spreading shit.

    Then again ...
    Get him on the ciggies and Old Peculier and it's a done deal.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,456
    MaxPB said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow this is looking very serious. Could be GBH or the Belgian equivalent.

    Could be murder if it goes badly.
    Oh dear, I hope not. This has become very ugly.
    Yeh, scratch my previous comment about popcorn. Suddenly this looks very serious.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Best Wishes to Stephen Woolfe. Hope he pulls through ( though I hate his politics)

    UKIP MEP is a Health tourist I see as well
  • Options
    I am absolutely shocked by Steven Woolfe's reported injury and so hope that he recovers fully.

    However surely it is the end of UKIP as a political force now that we are leaving the EU and Theresa May is following their message on control and immigration.
  • Options

    From Asa Bennett

    I'm told the "altercation" happened at a "clear the air" meeting Steven Woolfe held with MEPs this morning

    Ukip source says Woolfe and fellow MEP decided to "take it outside" after things got heated over reports he considered defecting

    Woolfe, I am told, "took off his jacket and invited him outside" - then there was the 'altercation'

    It sounds like a Friday night in my local.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited October 2016
    WTF....that's all...
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    It's still a daft policy. Control the borders and you don't need to micromanage and shame firms internally.

    Rudd was completely wrong-footed when she was asked how many 'foreigners' worked for the home office and she didn;t know.

    As the debate with Boris proved, the size of this person's gob far outweighs that of her talent.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    GIN1138 said:

    Nobody is "unsackable"

    Just ask David Cameron (who was essentially "sacked" by the electorate)

    As I often say, us Labour Leavers totally won the referendum - got rid of Cam and Ozzy as well as getting Brexit.
    :+1:
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Virtually every political metaphor suddenly seems in bad taste. Amazing how many have violent undertones.

    It's also sunk my 'Can Woolfe scale the heights' thread, trivially.
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