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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The impact of the 1st debate on WH2016 & the prospects now

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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    I see that both houses voted to overturn Obamas veto on the bill to allow people to sue foreign governments (so 911 victims can sue Saudi) by in excess of 2/3 majorities 97-1 in senate; 348-76 in reps.

    For all the froth about clinton and trump the real story of recent years is surely that the balance of power is draining from the president to congress.

    Maybe it is about time the House of Representatives appointed a prime minister to 'advise' the president?

    The two in the Senate who didn't vote? Sanders and Kaine.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    .

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie.

    Has anyone thought to mention this to the Torygraph?
    They know, but 90% of their readers don't. So they make most of the money for rather little effort. Making a site both secure enough that people with some tech knowledge can't circumvent it, and at the same time able to be indexed by the search engines that drive their revenue is not a cheap proposition.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684

    Good morning, comrades.

    F1 rules updates for next year:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37501676

    "The World Council rubber-stamped a decision to have a standing restart for a wet race that starts under the safety car."

    So, a few laps of trundling around in the rain. Then a standing start. Why bother? Why not have 60 odd racing laps instead of 60 minus however many times they run around slowly with no overtaking?

    "The uncertainty over the Canadian, German and Brazilian races is not specified."

    Displeasing. Canada and Brazil have two of the best circuits on the calendar. I'd guess the German matter is simply the alternating nature of its appearance on the calendar.

    I'd have guessed it's to do with fuel levels, increasing the number of laps might cause cars to run out towards the end.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    Renzi in a BBC interview this morning confirms his view that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that while the EU should have the best possible relationship with the UK, the UK should not get any special favours over any other nation outside the EU
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    HYUFD said:

    Renzi in a BBC interview this morning confirms his view that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that while the EU should have the best possible relationship with the UK, the UK should not get any special favours over any other nation outside the EU

    Oh god, meaningless phrases are catching on even to the continent I see.

    As for no special favours, well, of course, no one is owed a favour. It's a question of whether giving us things we want is also good for them, in which case it isn't a favour. We shall see.
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    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
    The fact that these voodoo polls are out of line with genuine polls indicates that it is the case.
    Putin is a Trump supporter:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
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    Mr. Max, I meant why bother going out? If it's too wet to race, don't race. If it's not too wet to race, actually give the wet (blue) tyres some racing time.
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    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    Devaluation sin't free.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Renzi in a BBC interview this morning confirms his view that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that while the EU should have the best possible relationship with the UK, the UK should not get any special favours over any other nation outside the EU

    Oh god, meaningless phrases are catching on even to the continent I see.

    As for no special favours, well, of course, no one is owed a favour. It's a question of whether giving us things we want is also good for them, in which case it isn't a favour. We shall see.
    That will be the substance of the trade and free movement negotiations
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
    Reddit and 4chan forums organised flooding the polls.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    for nothing.. really.//.. Its going to cost me about 40 quid more in spending money because of the drop in sterling
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    When the Scottish independence referendum was on was this forum overflowing with people going "Independence will definitely happen, the Daily Record online poll was 95% for Yes"?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    A new book by party activist Dr Carl Closes claims Gaddafi gave Plaid Cymru £25 000 in the 1970s to 'disrupt the status quo in the West'
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684

    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    Devaluation sin't free.

    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    for nothing.. really.//.. Its going to cost me about 40 quid more in spending money because of the drop in sterling
    Well almost nothing, and it won't be £40 per month. Inflation is expected to rise to about 1.8%, hardly earth shattering and still under the 2% target.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    Devaluation sin't free.

    MaxPB said:

    S&P saying in a round about way that our net trade will improve GDP by 1.2% over the next 6 quarters. Mostly due to weak Sterling. Quite a decent gain for nothing.

    for nothing.. really.//.. Its going to cost me about 40 quid more in spending money because of the drop in sterling
    Well almost nothing, and it won't be £40 per month. Inflation is expected to rise to about 1.8%, hardly earth shattering and still under the 2% target.
    Its not almost nothing. Everything we buy from overseas will cost more. Higher oil prices/fuel at the pumps and so on and so forth. we are seeing it already
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108
    edited September 2016

    Good morning, comrades.

    F1 rules updates for next year:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37501676

    "The World Council rubber-stamped a decision to have a standing restart for a wet race that starts under the safety car."

    So, a few laps of trundling around in the rain. Then a standing start. Why bother? Why not have 60 odd racing laps instead of 60 minus however many times they run around slowly with no overtaking?

    "The uncertainty over the Canadian, German and Brazilian races is not specified."

    Displeasing. Canada and Brazil have two of the best circuits on the calendar. I'd guess the German matter is simply the alternating nature of its appearance on the calendar.

    Morning. Hopefully the standing restart idea will go the way of the elimination qualifying format once people see what it looks like in practice. I can half understand that running the cars round will clear the rain quicker than almost anything else, but the decision is mainly driven by the need to start the race on time for the TV audiences.

    They can't increase the running distance by much or they'd run out of fuel, it would also be interesting to know how the two hour clock works with the standing start.

    Oh, and those blue striped wet tyres, why bother with them if by the time they go racing everyone switches to the inters. Let the best drivers in the world deal with the rain.
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    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
    Quite. I would have thought there were plenty of SJW types who will do the same for Clinton.

    And attributing it to putin is risible.

    It does rather undermine the Putin will cause Nuclear war meme though. Putin Baiting Progressive Warmongering for their own benefit Hillary is the main risk there.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!
  • Options
    Mr. Sandpit, aye. It's like moving to pay TV for more money or to dodgy circuits likewise. Great. Except fewer people will watch. So you'll get less in sponsorship and advertising. And then Azerbaijan won't want to pay $40m or so a year for a race nobody watches.

    Also, a standing restart probably means a longer delay than a rolling one, because they won't be able to risk spray causing carnage off the line.
  • Options

    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
    There can be no 'working assumption': such polls should be ignored. Nothing useful can be learnt from them.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,156
    HYUFD said:

    A new book by party activist Dr Carl Closes claims Gaddafi gave Plaid Cymru £25 000 in the 1970s to 'disrupt the status quo in the West'

    The Plaid says they’ve no record. Clowes has always struck me as a bit of an odd bod, on the odd occasion when his actions have been reported.
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    Mr. Sandpit, aye. It's like moving to pay TV for more money or to dodgy circuits likewise. Great. Except fewer people will watch. So you'll get less in sponsorship and advertising. And then Azerbaijan won't want to pay $40m or so a year for a race nobody watches.

    Also, a standing restart probably means a longer delay than a rolling one, because they won't be able to risk spray causing carnage off the line.

    Do we know the problem the rule change is supposed to be solving?
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    Mr. Jessop, no idea. But then, I don't know what elimination qualifying was meant to mend either.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308

    HYUFD said:

    A new book by party activist Dr Carl Closes claims Gaddafi gave Plaid Cymru £25 000 in the 1970s to 'disrupt the status quo in the West'

    The Plaid says they’ve no record. Clowes has always struck me as a bit of an odd bod, on the odd occasion when his actions have been reported.
    Will see if the story gets any more traction
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
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    Hogan-Howe to bugger off and retire:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37503648
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,945
    CD13 said:

    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!

    The Saudis will be more than happy with $50 - $60 a barrel for oil. It will help repair the damage lower prices have caused. The question is whether the output number will hold or whether Iraq, Nigeria or others will try to produce more - the northern hemisphere winter is coming and IF it's a colder one than the last couple, we'll see increased demand from the US, Europe and China for the old texas tea.

    Venezuela are of course desperate so getting them to sign up to this deal has probably involved some other quid pro quo.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Kevin Alcock
    Remington Poll (Missouri) Trump 49% Clinton 39% Johnson 5% - A 0.5% Swing to Trump
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Ally_B said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:


    The UK will never compete with Switzerland and the US on capitalism, let alone Singapore or the UAE. Nor will we ever have a chance of competing with Singapore on gdp per capita beyond inner London. We are not a socialist country but nor are we a laissez-faire capitalist country either, we are a middle of the road nation with the most socialist healthcare system in the developed world. I also doubt we will ever overtake Germany, they have more strength in depth in terms of manufacturing as well as a strong financial sector in Frankfurt if not as strong as that of London (though post Brexit they may catch up). May is looking to promote smaller and medium sized businesses as Germany does and have more selection in education as Germany does, she may be a British Merkel, she will not be a British Lee Kuan Yew

    Loser. Coward. Think big. Think BREXIT.
    FFS this is Britain, home of the English language, the Industrial Revolution and the world's largest empire. This isn't some pissant nation, with all due respect this isn't even Germany. We truly are exceptional. Have a little faith in your amazing homeland.
    SeanT our time has passed. You are remembering where we were 60 years ago and since then it has only gone one way, downhill. Of course I am open to hearing evidence to support what you say based on more recent events after all, even Greece & Italy can lay claim to starting empires that are talked about even today, on this board anyway.

    I live next to Singapore so know it well and agree, from experience, with what HYUFD has posted. I spend more than half the year outside the UK so I get an appreciation of what the world thinks of us (or at least SE Asia in my case). They say Brexit will be a disaster for us as our financial centre will move abroad (hopefully towards them it has to be said). Our tax return, necessary to support the NHS, Pensions, Defence, etc will decrease because key jobs and businesses will move abroad to be able to trade (as we live in global not local economy) and finally the trade deals we will sign up for will be in their favour, not ours, as we need them not the other way around once we are out of Europe.
    i'm not expecting the British Empire to be resurrected post-Brexit, but that's way too pessimistic. Real incomes are about two and a half times their level of sixty years ago.
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    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Alcock
    Remington Poll (Missouri) Trump 49% Clinton 39% Johnson 5% - A 0.5% Swing to Trump

    Damn, Clinton will never get Missouri now
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380



    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.

    There can be no 'working assumption': such polls should be ignored. Nothing useful can be learnt from them.
    Agreed. The classic proof was the PB-based effort that got a Daily Express poll to show 96% support for giving gypsies and travellers priority over local people for NHS services.

    The Express, to be fair, did report the result, poker-faced, without comment.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
    State polls normally lag a little behind national polls doesn't it? National polls this week and state polls next week may be a better indicator of the post debate landscape. It looks like there was some pre-debate movement to Clinton anyway though
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    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
    Probably means something for Florida, not sure what.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited September 2016
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684
    stodge said:

    CD13 said:

    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!

    The Saudis will be more than happy with $50 - $60 a barrel for oil. It will help repair the damage lower prices have caused. The question is whether the output number will hold or whether Iraq, Nigeria or others will try to produce more - the northern hemisphere winter is coming and IF it's a colder one than the last couple, we'll see increased demand from the US, Europe and China for the old texas tea.

    Venezuela are of course desperate so getting them to sign up to this deal has probably involved some other quid pro quo.

    Well not just that, OPEC have still got to agree where the 750k production cut will fall, likely higher since Iran won't have agreed unless they are allowed to ramp up their production to near historical levels rather than elevated levels. I think a near 2m production cut will have to shared among OPEC exc. Iran, that's not going to be easy to agree and we might end up with sub $40 oil in November if they come back with no agreement and Iran pushes ahead with increased output.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,798
    edited September 2016
    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    He was just ahead of the curve. Obama trades with all of Cuba.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
    Probably means something for Florida, not sure what.
    It's fair to say that Cubans in Miami will not like this story at all
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,798
    edited September 2016
    619 said:

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
    Probably means something for Florida, not sure what.
    It's fair to say that Cubans in Miami will not like this story at all
    will they care more that Obama lifted all sanctions or Trump bust one ?
  • Options



    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.

    There can be no 'working assumption': such polls should be ignored. Nothing useful can be learnt from them.
    Agreed. The classic proof was the PB-based effort that got a Daily Express poll to show 96% support for giving gypsies and travellers priority over local people for NHS services.

    The Express, to be fair, did report the result, poker-faced, without comment.
    Really? That must have been fun!
  • Options
    stodge said:

    CD13 said:

    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!

    The Saudis will be more than happy with $50 - $60 a barrel for oil. It will help repair the damage lower prices have caused. The question is whether the output number will hold or whether Iraq, Nigeria or others will try to produce more - the northern hemisphere winter is coming and IF it's a colder one than the last couple, we'll see increased demand from the US, Europe and China for the old texas tea.
    Venezuela are of course desperate so getting them to sign up to this deal has probably involved some other quid pro quo.
    Is $50 to $60 sustainable? There is no agreement as to where this 1% cut in production falls within OPEC countries. Also 1% less from OPEC is under 0.5% for the world AFAIK.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
  • Options

    Hogan-Howe to bugger off and retire:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37503648

    Problem is that Khan may find an even worse one.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108

    Mr. Sandpit, aye. It's like moving to pay TV for more money or to dodgy circuits likewise. Great. Except fewer people will watch. So you'll get less in sponsorship and advertising. And then Azerbaijan won't want to pay $40m or so a year for a race nobody watches.

    Also, a standing restart probably means a longer delay than a rolling one, because they won't be able to risk spray causing carnage off the line.

    Do we know the problem the rule change is supposed to be solving?
    Viewers apparently don't like the safety car starts, as there's less chance of a first corner crash! So the solution is to drive around 24 really expensive water clearing machines for 15 minutes, until it's dry enough for inters, then line up for the start! No, I don't understand it either.

    Just another thought, what happens if someone has a problem, pits for tyres etc while they trundle round - where would they line up for the start?
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    Mine are colour lasers. What are your page costs working out at?
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    When the Scottish independence referendum was on was this forum overflowing with people going "Independence will definitely happen, the Daily Record online poll was 95% for Yes"?

    There have been a few newspaper based voodoo Indy polls since the referendum, all of which favoured indy, sometimes by quite a margin. Apart from pissing off the pus buckets like the Express who hosted them, they're pretty valueless. I'll go out on a limb here and predict that all the PB Brexitrumpers boosting 'internet surveys' think they're valueless too.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    Absolutely! Funnily enough, HPs small laser printers are really quite good for a home office. Inkjet printers are a complete rip off.

    I once did a job as head of IT for an office of 300 people. I jokingly said that my biggest achievement in the first year there was to get them to replace a large number of small printers, with a small number of large ones!
  • Options

    619 said:

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
    Probably means something for Florida, not sure what.
    It's fair to say that Cubans in Miami will not like this story at all
    will they care more that Obama lifted all sanctions or Trump bust one ?
    There's an obvious difference: Obama's lifted sanctions (rightly IMO) after Cuba's moved towards reforms - though faster in some areas than others.

    Trump's sanction busting would have just bolstered the regime.

    Besides, AIUI Obama has not lifted all sanctions?
  • Options
    Mr. Sandpit, can't imagine other viewers like watching prolonged safety car periods either, and this would increase those because of the spray point I made below.

    Mr. Betting, that's true. Khan's pathetic banning of healthy images of women on the Tube did not impress.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684
    edited September 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    Mine are colour lasers. What are your page costs working out at?
    I would get replacement generic toner for £50 for all four colours and they are good for about 4000 pages, so I'd guess about 3p including 80gsm paper from Viking. Though I'm still on the original set of toner.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Ally_B said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:


    The UK will never compete with Switzerland and the US on capitalism, let alone Singapore or the UAE. Nor will we ever have a chance of competing with Singapore on gdp per capita beyond inner London. We are not a socialist country but nor are we a laissez-faire capitalist country either, we are a middle of the road nation with the most socialist healthcare system in the developed world. I also doubt we will ever overtake Germany, they have more strength in depth in terms of manufacturing as well as a strong financial sector in Frankfurt if not as strong as that of London (though post Brexit they may catch up). May is looking to promote smaller and medium sized businesses as Germany does and have more selection in education as Germany does, she may be a British Merkel, she will not be a British Lee Kuan Yew

    Loser. Coward. Think big. Think BREXIT.
    FFS this is Britain, home of the English language, the Industrial Revolution and the world's largest empire. This isn't some pissant nation, with all due respect this isn't even Germany. We truly are exceptional. Have a little faith in your amazing homeland.
    SeanT our time has passed. You are remembering where we were 60 years ago and since then it has only gone one way, downhill. Of course I am open to hearing evidence to support what you say based on more recent events after all, even Greece & Italy can lay claim to starting empires that are talked about even today, on this board anyway.

    I live next to Singapore so know it well and agree, from experience, with what HYUFD has posted. I spend more than half the year outside the UK so I get an appreciation of what the world thinks of us (or at least SE Asia in my case). They say Brexit will be a disaster for us as our financial centre will move abroad (hopefully towards them it has to be said). Our tax return, necessary to support the NHS, Pensions, Defence, etc will decrease because key jobs and businesses will move abroad to be able to trade (as we live in global not local economy) and finally the trade deals we will sign up for will be in their favour, not ours, as we need them not the other way around once we are out of Europe.
    i'm not expecting the British Empire to be resurrected post-Brexit, but that's way too pessimistic. Real incomes are about two and a half times their level of sixty years ago.
    Membership of the EU isn't the only geopolitical option open to the UK, particularly with the centre of economic gravity moving away from Europe.

    Our future will be based on a global net of bilateral and multilateral alliances that reflect the changing world.
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    Alistair said:

    RobD said:



    While I don't doubt it's easy to write the script, I seriously doubt that they failed to include software to discard multiple votes from the same IP. (yes, you could use your favorite bot net instead).

    I just went and voted multiple times in the Breitbart poll so you can assume nothing of the sort.

    Stopping the same IP voting multiple times doesn't work given that hundreds of people share the same IP these days.
    I posted yesterday evening that I had managed to vote multiple times in the Time poll. The reality is that there is no known way to prevent multiple votes with this kind of poll.

    IP checks are not a good idea given that, as Alistair says, many people share IP addresses so you would be blocking valid votes. They are, in any case, easy to get around - botnets, IP spoofing, etc.

    Cookies are better but anyone reasonably technically savvy can deal with them simply by deleting the cookie. A scripted attack can ignore the cookie completely. And, of course, cookies don't stop one person voting from multiple computers.

    Captcha can reduce automated attacks but it won't eliminate them and does not prevent non-automated attacks.

    Making people log in makes the process more complex but the determined attacker will simply register multiple accounts - a process that can also be automated.

    The easier it is to vote in an online poll the easier it is to manipulate the result.
    But both sides can equally manipulate it. The working assumption seems to be that a poorly-protected poll that favours Trump has been knocked out of whack by tech-savvy Trump backers. That may or not be the case.
    The fact that these voodoo polls are out of line with genuine polls indicates that it is the case.
    Putin is a Trump supporter:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
    I don't understand why intelligent people on PB are even countenancing the possibility that online polls have any validity. In the right context they are able to provide some information about public opinion, but they are unscientific per se.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    RobD said:

    I assume we have spies watching MSNBC so we can find out what a) the poll results are, and b) what the bombshell story is about

    Did Mika look despondent as usual?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Sean_F said:



    i'm not expecting the British Empire to be resurrected post-Brexit, but that's way too pessimistic. Real incomes are about two and a half times their level of sixty years ago.

    Yes, comparisons with the past assign a sepia-tinted glory to them that doesn't correspond with reality. But I think Ally was implicitly talking about relative wealth. The two strategic trends of the world economy have for 20 years or more been the rise of Asia (with substantial benefits for the global economy as a whole) and the decline of the Western ability to maintain average living standards far above the lead developing economies. It's the blessing and curse of globalisation. Brexit will IMO accelerate that for Britain, but that doesn't necessarily mean more than a slight dip in our outlook in absolute terms.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
    If it is a close win for Clinton (and just about everyone objective agrees she will be a massive disappointment) then 2020 should really be for the Republicans taking.

    But, somehow, I can't help feel they might muck it up. Yet again.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108

    stodge said:

    CD13 said:

    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!

    The Saudis will be more than happy with $50 - $60 a barrel for oil. It will help repair the damage lower prices have caused. The question is whether the output number will hold or whether Iraq, Nigeria or others will try to produce more - the northern hemisphere winter is coming and IF it's a colder one than the last couple, we'll see increased demand from the US, Europe and China for the old texas tea.
    Venezuela are of course desperate so getting them to sign up to this deal has probably involved some other quid pro quo.
    Is $50 to $60 sustainable? There is no agreement as to where this 1% cut in production falls within OPEC countries. Also 1% less from OPEC is under 0.5% for the world AFAIK.
    A 1% cut isn't going to make much of a difference to the price at all. I think OPEC are finally waking up to the fact that they no longer control enough of the world's production to dictate to the market any more. The Saudis tried to break to US shale industry and failed as the technology improved so quickly.

    Time to get fracking!
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    They're just as rapacious as the rest of them. I ran out of cyan ink for my Brother printer and it wouldn't let me print black.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
    If it is a close win for Clinton (and just about everyone objective agrees she will be a massive disappointment) then 2020 should really be for the Republicans taking.

    But, somehow, I can't help feel they might muck it up. Yet again.
    If Trump narrowly loses Cruz will be favourite for the GOP nomination in 2020
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,798
    edited September 2016

    619 said:

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    Not seen it but it sounds like an old story. I'd imagine a bunch of voters who weren't going to vote for Trump anyway might be excited, and I suppose it slightly shortens the odds against both candidates wearing handcuffs on election day.
    Probably means something for Florida, not sure what.
    It's fair to say that Cubans in Miami will not like this story at all
    will they care more that Obama lifted all sanctions or Trump bust one ?
    There's an obvious difference: Obama's lifted sanctions (rightly IMO) after Cuba's moved towards reforms - though faster in some areas than others.

    Trump's sanction busting would have just bolstered the regime.

    Besides, AIUI Obama has not lifted all sanctions?
    I have no problem with Obama lifting sanctions, it was one of the few useful things he did. But I cant honestly see Miami Cubans getting more irate about a Trump affiliate than a US administration that overturned 60 years of isolation.

    People on here are just too keen to assume they know what US citizens think. Most of us havent a clue.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    They're just as rapacious as the rest of them. I ran out of cyan ink for my Brother printer and it wouldn't let me print black.
    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,945

    Is $50 to $60 sustainable? There is no agreement as to where this 1% cut in production falls within OPEC countries. Also 1% less from OPEC is under 0.5% for the world AFAIK.

    I do agree the devil is in the detail and we'll know more after the November meeting. In essence, 700,000 barrels or so a day isn't going to make a huge difference and less so if Russia or other non-OPEC countries try to make up the shortfall.

    It represents an attempt to re-establish OPEC's credibility and influence and more significantly a sign of a softening in Saudi-Iranian relations which have been strained by Yemen and other issues.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Renzi in a BBC interview this morning confirms his view that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that while the EU should have the best possible relationship with the UK, the UK should not get any special favours over any other nation outside the EU

    Oh god, meaningless phrases are catching on even to the continent I see.

    As for no special favours, well, of course, no one is owed a favour. It's a question of whether giving us things we want is also good for them, in which case it isn't a favour. We shall see.
    Renzi also said the negotiations should be left entirely to the Commission - which logically renders his opinion irrelevant.
    In reality, it's hard to see the opinions of Germany and France not determining the outcome of any negotiations, subject to a great deal of horse trading.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    My HP 1020 black and white laser printer is one of the best IT purchases I've ever made. Consumer kit so well made they stopped producing it as it was impacting sales of their commercial Lasers.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,883

    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    OT:Dont think this will do HP any good. Cant think of a more suicidal business strategy. If I had an HP printer next time I bought one it wouldnt be HP.

    Mail is reporting that they have allegedly done an update on their printers so that they no longer work with generic print cartridges.

    http://dailym.ai/2duOQTP.

    Personally I got a slightly more expensive epson version that comes with virtually unlimited ink.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-EcoTank-Multifunction-Printer-Refillable/dp/B00T6JEIOA

    100ml of each colour - equivalent of 80 normal cartridges.

    And you just buy bottles and refil the cartridge when it is empty. Refills cost between £6 and £50 for a set depending on quality.

    Cartridges are an utter rip-off in the UK in anycase. Standard HP cartridges in the UK cost about 26 quid per set for most models of printer. I can buy genuine long life HP cartridge sets here, double the capacity of the standard ones for under 10 pounds equivalent without having to look outside the big shopping malls.

    Printer manufacturers tend to loss-leader their printers and then recoup the costs on the ink sales, which obviously doesnt work if you buy third party ink. If people move massively to third party ink cartridges, all that happens is printer prices will go up.
    Doubt it. My printer with virtually unlimited ink only cost £185. A bit more expensive but done a year in our house including several kids homework and still on first set of ink.
    That's a hell of a lot more than the standard printers you can buy in Tesco for £40, but which has basically the same technology inside. They need to get that extra 145 notes back from somewhere.
    I have a couple of Canon's using the 718 laser cartridges and the clone black cartridges work out at 1p per page. The colour pages are running at 3p per page (but none are intense photo images). 4 clone cartridges are about £90 for a full set.
    Get a colour laser printer, I bought a Brother one for £120 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The toner lasts forever and it isn't expensive to buy either.
    They're just as rapacious as the rest of them. I ran out of cyan ink for my Brother printer and it wouldn't let me print black.
    The problem I had with my HP all-in-one, which is a decent machine and networkable too, is that I can't use the scanner unless I replace the ink cartridge. It didn't even run out, but just dried up because I no longer print with the thing.
  • Options
    F1: just reading some comments, and an interesting one on Twitter may be worth noting. Unless drivers think to drive off-line, then half the grid will have a drier line than the other when it comes to a re-start off the line following a wet safety car period.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245

    F1: just reading some comments, and an interesting one on Twitter may be worth noting. Unless drivers think to drive off-line, then half the grid will have a drier line than the other when it comes to a re-start off the line following a wet safety car period.

    The drivers will figure that one out pretty quickly; not so difficult to do on a straight.

    Of more concern is what happens when a driver stalls on the grid, and those behind can't see because of spray. Imagine if the chaos Verstappen created last time around were to kick off in low visibility conditions...
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    I shall use your experience and buy a set of generics right now in that case!
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Alistair said:

    My HP 1020 black and white laser printer is one of the best IT purchases I've ever made. Consumer kit so well made they stopped producing it as it was impacting sales of their commercial Lasers.

    I bought a Laserjet 2200 in 2001. Still on the original toner cartridge, although I am on the second network card
  • Options
    Mr. B, indeed. Safety car stays out longer, and maybe a quarter or a third of the race is behind it.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,883

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
    If it is a close win for Clinton (and just about everyone objective agrees she will be a massive disappointment) then 2020 should really be for the Republicans taking.

    But, somehow, I can't help feel they might muck it up. Yet again.
    I wouldn't guarantee that. She will be judged on her record as president and not on perceptions of her as a candidate. She has the attributes to be a reasonably good president: experiences, hard-working and good at working with interest groups to get things done.

    Her health will be an issue however.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    edited September 2016
    F1: Alonso gets 30 place grid penalty:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37503760

    On the plus side, he now has enough penalties for a complimentary F1 deckchair.

    Edited extra bit: complementary?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I see Ken Clarke is doing the opposition's job for them today, calling May to account.
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    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    CORRECTION

    The last Mitchell poll in Michigan was on Sept.7th not Aug.10th.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/FOX_2_Detroit-Mitchell_Poll_of_MI_Press_Clinton_v_Trump_9-9-16.pdf

    So on that metric the first post-Debate State Poll actually shows not much of movement.
    Which is a good thing for Trump.

    5% behind seems quite good for a Republican in Michigan (Romney was 10% behind) but close wins no prizes.
    If it is a close win for Clinton (and just about everyone objective agrees she will be a massive disappointment) then 2020 should really be for the Republicans taking.

    But, somehow, I can't help feel they might muck it up. Yet again.
    If Trump narrowly loses Cruz will be favourite for the GOP nomination in 2020
    Great. Because he's a surefire national winner.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    Ink Cartridges and Men's Razor blades (particularly Gillette) are the greatest scandals of our time.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108

    F1: just reading some comments, and an interesting one on Twitter may be worth noting. Unless drivers think to drive off-line, then half the grid will have a drier line than the other when it comes to a re-start off the line following a wet safety car period.

    That's a good point! Actually it will be worse than that, because, unless ordered to, the driver's - competitive men that they are - will try and only clear the part of the track around their own starting space, so as not to help those starting immediately behind them.

    I'm expecting this to go the way of the knockout qualy as soon as it's seen out there in the wild. I also hope the new commercial rights people are watching this unfold, and understand that the KISS a principle applies here. Just let the world's best drivers race - no matter what the conditions.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,594
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    CD13 said:

    I see the Saudis have agreed with OPEC to cut production and keep the oil price inflated.

    Their effort to stop shale gas looks to be on hold. Their only hope now to blackmail the West is that the Greens do their job for them. Unlikely. Let's get fracking.

    Freedom!

    The Saudis will be more than happy with $50 - $60 a barrel for oil. It will help repair the damage lower prices have caused. The question is whether the output number will hold or whether Iraq, Nigeria or others will try to produce more - the northern hemisphere winter is coming and IF it's a colder one than the last couple, we'll see increased demand from the US, Europe and China for the old texas tea.
    Venezuela are of course desperate so getting them to sign up to this deal has probably involved some other quid pro quo.
    Is $50 to $60 sustainable? There is no agreement as to where this 1% cut in production falls within OPEC countries. Also 1% less from OPEC is under 0.5% for the world AFAIK.
    A 1% cut isn't going to make much of a difference to the price at all. I think OPEC are finally waking up to the fact that they no longer control enough of the world's production to dictate to the market any more. The Saudis tried to break to US shale industry and failed as the technology improved so quickly.

    Time to get fracking!
    Plus there's Iran. Any time they can frustrate the Saudis on anything including oil, they will.
  • Options
    Mr. Sandpit, the KISS principle?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,594
    stodge said:

    Is $50 to $60 sustainable? There is no agreement as to where this 1% cut in production falls within OPEC countries. Also 1% less from OPEC is under 0.5% for the world AFAIK.

    I do agree the devil is in the detail and we'll know more after the November meeting. In essence, 700,000 barrels or so a day isn't going to make a huge difference and less so if Russia or other non-OPEC countries try to make up the shortfall.

    It represents an attempt to re-establish OPEC's credibility and influence and more significantly a sign of a softening in Saudi-Iranian relations which have been strained by Yemen and other issues.

    I'm not sure relations are going to soften any time soon.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    He was just ahead of the curve. Obama trades with all of Cuba.
    Yes we have now learned that nothing whatsoever can spell bad news for Trump.

    >>>Only on PB.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Alcock
    Remington Poll (Missouri) Trump 49% Clinton 39% Johnson 5% - A 0.5% Swing to Trump


    MOE in a state so far down Hillary's target list it might as well be Texas.

    Next.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,883

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    Ink Cartridges and Men's Razor blades (particularly Gillette) are the greatest scandals of our time.
    Gillette razor blades are interesting. Every time I buy a pack of blades - £15 for a few strips of metal - I think, you must be joking! Occasionally I try something else but they are not as good, so I go back to Gillette. Marketing 101: you are buying quality of shave, not strips of metal. Despite the sticker shock razor blades aren't a huge part of the household budget, so I acquiesce.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Mr. Sandpit, the KISS principle?

    Keep it simple, stupid
  • Options
    Mr. Jobabob, ah. Cheers.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:
    We did this a few threads back with some knowledgeable people like rcs1000 but here's a non-zerohedge perspective to be going along with:
    https://medium.com/@dsquareddigest/a-quick-deutsche-splainer-124dd0a7bfe9#.kwly8c8y2
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    Ink Cartridges and Men's Razor blades (particularly Gillette) are the greatest scandals of our time.
    Gillette razor blades are interesting. Every time I buy a pack of blades - £15 for a few strips of metal - I think, you must be joking! Occasionally I try something else but they are not as good, so I go back to Gillette. Marketing 101: you are buying quality of shave, not strips of metal. Despite the sticker shock razor blades aren't a huge part of the household budget, so I acquiesce.
    I worked out in the space of six months i would pay more in vat on mens razor blades than a woman would pay in vat for their entire life on feminine hygiene products.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,798
    Jobabob said:

    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    He was just ahead of the curve. Obama trades with all of Cuba.
    Yes we have now learned that nothing whatsoever can spell bad news for Trump.

    >>>Only on PB.
    I dont really care who wins WH16 theyre both crap candidates, but atm PB has lots of people conjecturing their wishes on US voters - yourself included - frankly the cultural divide means few of us really know how US voters will react.

    Brexit appears to have taught you nothing.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,905
    edited September 2016
    Interesting Con vs LD by-election in Stow-on-the-Wold today. Could be a portent for Witney (almost next door).
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    When the Scottish independence referendum was on was this forum overflowing with people going "Independence will definitely happen, the Daily Record online poll was 95% for Yes"?

    That was nothing on the 'canvassing returns'.......is MickPork still 'getting out the vote'?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,156

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    Ink Cartridges and Men's Razor blades (particularly Gillette) are the greatest scandals of our time.
    It all started with Kodak film!
  • Options
    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Interesting Con vs LD by-election in Stow-on-the-Wold today. Could be a portent for Witney (almost next door).

    Nailed on LD gain...
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    Ally_B said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:


    Loser. Coward. Think big. Think BREXIT.
    FFS this is Britain, home of the English language, the Industrial Revolution and the world's largest empire. This isn't some pissant nation, with all due respect this isn't even Germany. We truly are exceptional. Have a little faith in your amazing homeland.
    SeanT our time has passed. You are remembering where we were 60 years ago and since then it has only gone one way, downhill. Of course I am open to hearing evidence to support what you say based on more recent events after all, even Greece & Italy can lay claim to starting empires that are talked about even today, on this board anyway.

    most big cruise ships nowadays are built in Hamburg.
    Up to a point Lord Copper. It's actually Pappenburg (Meyer Werft), then Monfalcone et al for TinFincantieri in Italy and STX in Finland which builds the biggest.

    It will be a while yet, but Carnival Corp has signed an MOU to start building ships in China.....
    So 3 of the biggest shipyards for cruise liners are in that moribund EU, and none in dynamic Brexit Britain?

    Some mistake surely?
    British shipbuilding's decline long predates EU membership and can be traced back to the aftermath of WWII - our yards had kept going, so while the Germans more or less started afresh, British management and workers carried on as before - and with limited competition had some great years - but by the early 60s the Japanese & Germans had overtaken us.

    How they are faring versus Chinese competition in 10 years time will be interesting to see....
    But surely in Brexit Britain the Tyne and Clyde will resonate to the clang of shipbuilding using good honest Welsh Steel?
    Don't know about the Clyde but most of the Tyne has been redeveloped as Business Park. Why would you wish to revive an industry where we have no competitive advantage, and if we did could easily be overtaken by the Chinese in a decade - as our EU friends may well be....
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,798

    IanB2 said:

    Ally_B said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:


    Loser. Coward. Think big. Think BREXIT.
    FFS this is Britain, home of the English language, the Industrial Revolution and the world's largest empire. This isn't some pissant nation, with all due respect this isn't even Germany. We truly are exceptional. Have a little faith in your amazing homeland.
    SeanT our time has passed. You are remembering where we were 60 years ago and since then it has only gone one way, downhill. Of course I am open to hearing evidence to support what you say based on more recent events after all, even Greece & Italy can lay claim to starting empires that are talked about even today, on this board anyway.

    most big cruise ships nowadays are built in Hamburg.
    Up to a point Lord Copper. It's actually Pappenburg (Meyer Werft), then Monfalcone et al for TinFincantieri in Italy and STX in Finland which builds the biggest.

    It will be a while yet, but Carnival Corp has signed an MOU to start building ships in China.....
    So 3 of the biggest shipyards for cruise liners are in that moribund EU, and none in dynamic Brexit Britain?

    Some mistake surely?
    British shipbuilding's decline long predates EU membership and can be traced back to the aftermath of WWII - our yards had kept going, so while the Germans more or less started afresh, British management and workers carried on as before - and with limited competition had some great years - but by the early 60s the Japanese & Germans had overtaken us.

    How they are faring versus Chinese competition in 10 years time will be interesting to see....
    But surely in Brexit Britain the Tyne and Clyde will resonate to the clang of shipbuilding using good honest Welsh Steel?
    Don't know about the Clyde but most of the Tyne has been redeveloped as Business Park. Why would you wish to revive an industry where we have no competitive advantage, and if we did could easily be overtaken by the Chinese in a decade - as our EU friends may well be....
    So like banking ?
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:


    Sure, but it doesn't require you to buy the £50 genuine cyan toner, you can just get a generic one for a third of the cost.

    True, I was defeated through lack of planning. I just bought generic black from Amazon since I never want to print colour anyway, then right when I needed to print something that day the printer went on strike demanding cyan, and since I didn't have time to get it from Amazon I had to buy it from a shop, which only had the over-priced maker version.

    The alternative would have been to buy black electrical tape and try to trick it, but if that hadn't worked I'd have had to lose another half hour going out to the shop and back, so I folded and paid the ransom.
    Ink Cartridges and Men's Razor blades (particularly Gillette) are the greatest scandals of our time.
    Gillette razor blades are interesting. Every time I buy a pack of blades - £15 for a few strips of metal - I think, you must be joking! Occasionally I try something else but they are not as good, so I go back to Gillette. Marketing 101: you are buying quality of shave, not strips of metal. Despite the sticker shock razor blades aren't a huge part of the household budget, so I acquiesce.
    Marketing is fantastic though, isn't it?

    They recolour the packaging. Double down on shininess and colouring of the box and plastic, with another box or two of wrapping inside, and then call it Gillette Super Max Global Fusion Intergalactic Razor Dominator 5: Uber XXXX Supershave - our best shave ever - and we queue up and buy it.

    Then they make sure only those (very expensive) razor blades work with that particular unit.

    Brilliant.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    The Newsweek front cover is pretty strong stuff.

    Trump owned company doing business with Cuba when sanctions were in place.

    You see a lawbreaker, Trumpers see a swashbuckling businessman ahead of the curve, helping create American jobs (or something...)
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    When the Scottish independence referendum was on was this forum overflowing with people going "Independence will definitely happen, the Daily Record online poll was 95% for Yes"?

    That was nothing on the 'canvassing returns'.......is MickPork still 'getting out the vote'?
    The canvas returns were probably true for IndyRef given that it was RIC that were reporting them and RIC were canvassing the most yes voting areas of Glasgow.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Is Ken Clarke the last EUrophile Conservative MP ?

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/715622/Ken-Clarke-Theresa-May-Brexit-politics-government-Boris-Johnson-Liam-Fox-David-Davis

    "He is the first MP to announce that he will vote against Brexit in the Commons, saying: “The idea that I’m suddenly going to change my lifelong opinions about the national interest and regard myself as instructed to vote in parliament on the basis of an opinion poll is laughable.”

    Mr Clarke also lambasted David Cameron for calling the EU Referendum, saying the former Prime Minister will “go down in history as the man who made the mistake of taking us out of the European Union”."
This discussion has been closed.