I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.
I fucking loathe it. Ban it.
Ban it immediately. Ban it.
I can beat that.
Just got back from Lynton and Lynmouth in North Devon.
I saw one there. On the beach. Full veil. Full Niqab/Burka. Everything.
In. North. Devon.
They are horrible and I agree with the majority of Lib Dem, Tory and Labour voters: ban them.
They are filth, but is a ban likely? I can't see any government doing it here
I think a way of dealing with it would be for non Muslims to start wearing them for a laugh, men and women, do loads of stupid goofy unislamic things while wearing them, such as wear them with high heels and shorts skirts, or doing the conga while drinking beer on a stag do etc, take photos and post them all over the Internet. Just rip the piss out of them like we have all other religions for years
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You should re-read all your quotes and threaders, passim, from March-to-August 2016. In fact, for your own enlightenment, you should preserve them in Baltic amber. You performed an exquisite narrative arc from suave pomposity and lawyerly hauteur, to bitter and laughable tantrums, and the mindset of a special needs toddler deprived of a favourite stuffy.
Swings and roundabouts. I didn't align myself with a campaign that was based on pandering to xenophobia. I am comfortable with my conscience. Any decent Leaver would be ashamed of how the vote was won and fearful for how Britain's political discourse has been debased,
@TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.
Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
Best if Sarah Vine avoids asps for the present then?
Oh yes, I've got some other threads with historical comparisons coming up.
Theresa May as Caligula. I compare appointing Liam Fox and David Davis as potentially the weirdest political appointments since Caligula appointed Incitatus a Senator.
I've also got a more modern day historical comparison coming up tomorrow afternoon, which I think will provoke a lot of comment and enrage a few
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You should re-read all your quotes and threaders, passim, from March-to-August 2016. In fact, for your own enlightenment, you should preserve them in Baltic amber. You performed an exquisite narrative arc from suave pomposity and lawyerly hauteur, to bitter and laughable tantrums, and the mindset of a special needs toddler deprived of a favourite stuffy.
Swings and roundabouts. I didn't align myself with a campaign that was based on pandering to xenophobia. I am comfortable with my conscience. Any decent Leaver would be ashamed of how the vote was won and fearful for how Britain's political discourse has been debased,
Jesus. Back to pomposity then. You have a tin ear when it comes to Hearing Yourself.
I'd advise you to reread your own posts for unselfconscious pomposity, but I wouldn't inflict that unenlightening chore on anyone.
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
During a conversation about measures to prevent skin cancer, I was told that in at least one country (Australia?) parents already kit their children out in a wet-suit-style cover-all, made in a very much lighter material of course.
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
I presume that the PR, marketing, and advertising people behind the Remain campaign are now both unemployed and unemployable in those fields.
Actually quite a few have some new letters after their name.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
We never were as that would require full free movement for full single market access, the most likely outcome is a cross between the Canada route and the Swiss route
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
I would ban the burqa and the niqab; I wouldn't ban the burkini.
The key thing is the face. That's the line which is crossed -for me (and the vast majority of my fellow Brits). Take away the face, you take away the human being. It's seriously incredible that so many supposed feminists and "liberals" find the burqa acceptable. It really is not.
And it is merely the visible tip of the great iceberg of Islamic misogyny.
Ban it.
Are women wearing the burqa allowed to breast feed in public?
I am far from sure either campaign shifted many votes, that is to say, they were both poor (and to be fair, people had already made up their minds long ago).
I am thrilled with the way our political discourse has stopped pandering to PC and is now capable of confronting illiberalism, whether it be in the form of the EU or the Burka.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You should re-read all your quotes and threaders, passim, from March-to-August 2016. In fact, for your own enlightenment, you should preserve them in Baltic amber. You performed an exquisite narrative arc from suave pomposity and lawyerly hauteur, to bitter and laughable tantrums, and the mindset of a special needs toddler deprived of a favourite stuffy.
Swings and roundabouts. I didn't align myself with a campaign that was based on pandering to xenophobia. I am comfortable with my conscience. Any decent Leaver would be ashamed of how the vote was won and fearful for how Britain's political discourse has been debased,
Wealthy Europhile lawyers like Meeks should personally foot the bill of any continued EU contributions, if it comes to pass that we don't actually Brexit.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
Now you want me to endure all that vapid bilge written..... How unfair you are! Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign... it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve heard from “ among others “ Professor Stephen Hawking, a third of the FTSE-100 bosses, the Governor of the Bank of England and the US Secretary of State. Barack Obama is standing by ready to be deployed as necessary."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. As a result, Leave is being defined by its opponents. It looks increasingly as if Leave’s main chance of winning depends on events unfolding in a way that make undecided voters give up on the EU as a going concern. That doesn’t look like much of a strategy. "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
I would ban the burqa and the niqab; I wouldn't ban the burkini.
The key thing is the face. That's the line which is crossed -for me (and the vast majority of my fellow Brits). Take away the face, you take away the human being. It's seriously incredible that so many supposed feminists and "liberals" find the burqa acceptable. It really is not.
And it is merely the visible tip of the great iceberg of Islamic misogyny.
Ban it.
I agree and would ban the burka but not the burkini too, the yougov poll on the burkini mentioned that it was swimwear covering the face and body, unlike the burka it only covers the body I think
I think that Trump's performance in Mexico will give him a boost.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
Yes, in one stroke it removes the 'I can't imagine him as President' objection. Clinton was completely on the back foot in her comments today accusing him of 'dropping in' on Mexico.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
I think we're going down the UK route, as advised by senior German politicians. We are sui generis.
I did read somewhere the other day, the politicians that will be the biggest obstacle for the UK getting a good deal is not German or other EU politicians, but the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party.
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
During a conversation about measures to prevent skin cancer, I was told that in at least one country (Australia?) parents already kit their children out in a wet-suit-style cover-all, made in a very much lighter material of course.
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
I would ban the burqa and the niqab; I wouldn't ban the burkini.
The key thing is the face. That's the line which is crossed -for me (and the vast majority of my fellow Brits). Take away the face, you take away the human being. It's seriously incredible that so many supposed feminists and "liberals" find the burqa acceptable. It really is not.
And it is merely the visible tip of the great iceberg of Islamic misogyny.
Ban it.
Are women wearing the burqa allowed to breast feed in public?
"Is it not the will of Allah (SWT) that we are all born stark, raving naked?" - Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You cannot recognize deliberate hyperbole, really?
Now you want me to endure all that vapid bilge written..... How unfair you are! Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign... it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve heard from “ among others “ Professor Stephen Hawking, a third of the FTSE-100 bosses, the Governor of the Bank of England and the US Secretary of State. Barack Obama is standing by ready to be deployed as necessary."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. As a result, Leave is being defined by its opponents. It looks increasingly as if Leave’s main chance of winning depends on events unfolding in a way that make undecided voters give up on the EU as a going concern. That doesn’t look like much of a strategy. "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
I must have missed the word "perfect" in that quote, never mind my having described the campaign as such. I take that as tacit acceptance on your part that you are either delusional, dishonest or dim. Take your pick. I'm a generous man so I'm going to assume that you are all three.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
I think we're going down the UK route, as advised by senior German politicians. We are sui generis.
I did read somewhere the other day, the politicians that will be the biggest obstacle for the UK getting a good deal is not German or other EU politicians, but the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party.
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
May's biggest opponents at the next election will not be Corbyn and McDonnell, they will be IDS, Patterson, Redwood, Rees-Mogg, Davies, Bridgen etc and UKIP
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
I think that Trump's performance in Mexico will give him a boost.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
Yes, in one stroke it removes the 'I can't imagine him as President' objection. Clinton was completely on the back foot in her comments today accusing him of 'dropping in' on Mexico.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve heard from “ among others “ Professor Stephen Hawking, a third of the FTSE-100 bosses, the Governor of the Bank of England and the US Secretary of State. Barack Obama is standing by ready to be deployed as necessary."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. As a result, Leave is being defined by its opponents. It looks increasingly as if Leave’s main chance of winning depends on events unfolding in a way that make undecided voters give up on the EU as a going concern. That doesn’t look like much of a strategy. "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
The enormous pomposity on display is epic - even by Twitter standards.
The worst thing Antifrank ever did was deciding to become a *personality* and appear in news articles and as himself here. It went straight to his head and stayed there.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
We salute TSE's indefatigability in campaigning so hard for LEAVE in Sheffield
I am far from sure either campaign shifted many votes, that is to say, they were both poor (and to be fair, people had already made up their long ago).
Given the difference in VI in the months before - something happened.
Now you want me to endure all that vapid bilge written..... How unfair you are! Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign... it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve h....."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, ...... "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
I must have missed the word "perfect" in that quote, never mind my having described the campaign as such. I take that as tacit acceptance on your part that you are either delusional, dishonest or dim. Take your pick. I'm a generous man so I'm going to assume that you are all three.
Mr Meeks - do you think you could come down from your perch and consider that you might have been completely wrong in this piece? "Alastair Meeks wonders whether the LEAVE campaign has already sunk Tuesday, March 1st, 2016" http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/12/ "Leave has made a strategic choice by default, to offer all of these options to the voters and to let them decide which in practice will be on the table. Their hope is that each voter will choose the one they like the look of most. More likely, with Remain sure to run on the fear of a leap in the dark, undecided voters will decide that Leave would turn out for the worst. In the absence of events unfolding to favour Leave, it’s hard to see a route to victory for them. It may well be that Leave is already sunk."
I had a quick look at the Queen's Speech from last year. Have to feel sorry for May's cabinet. Cameron clearly envisaged tinkering with a tax rate here, authorising a rail project there, fiddling with pensions and child care, home in time to watch CBeebies.
Now the poor sods are going to be toiling down the #Brexit mines for the next decade, towing a surly civil service behind them. Excellent.
I am thrilled with the way our political discourse has stopped pandering to PC and is now capable of confronting illiberalism, whether it be in the form of the EU or the Burka.
Ditto - I just expect to be arrested for saying something slightly colourful on Twitter instead.
We're in a right mess regarding free speech. It's a very unlevel playing field.
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
Someone on here had a great description for Smith something like "the world's angriest double-glazing salesman".
Now you want me to endure all that vapid bilge written..... How unfair you are! Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign... it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve h....."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, ...... "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
I must have missed the word "perfect" in that quote, never mind my having described the campaign as such. I take that as tacit acceptance on your part that you are either delusional, dishonest or dim. Take your pick. I'm a generous man so I'm going to assume that you are all three.
Mr Meeks - do you think you could come down from your perch and consider that you might have been completely wrong in this piece? "Alastair Meeks wonders whether the LEAVE campaign has already sunk Tuesday, March 1st, 2016" http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/12/ "Leave has made a strategic choice by default, to offer all of these options to the voters and to let them decide which in practice will be on the table. Their hope is that each voter will choose the one they like the look of most. More likely, with Remain sure to run on the fear of a leap in the dark, undecided voters will decide that Leave would turn out for the worst. In the absence of events unfolding to favour Leave, it’s hard to see a route to victory for them. It may well be that Leave is already sunk."
If you read what I wrote, you would see that it was a correct summary of Leave's position. Leave's lack of clarity has led to the continuing confusion about what version of Brexit that we will pursue.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
We salute TSE's indefatigability in campaigning so hard for LEAVE in Sheffield
Yes it was his door step reports that seemed so well informed. Sheffield did actually vote for LEAVE and maybe TSE advised us that is what was happening on the ground?
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
I would ban the burqa and the niqab; I wouldn't ban the burkini.
The key thing is the face. That's the line which is crossed -for me (and the vast majority of my fellow Brits). Take away the face, you take away the human being. It's seriously incredible that so many supposed feminists and "liberals" find the burqa acceptable. It really is not.
And it is merely the visible tip of the great iceberg of Islamic misogyny.
Ban it.
I really really don't like the full face burka. I just like the idea of banning it even less.
I'd like to know - from those few women who wear these things - what bad things they think will happen if they go out without covering their face.
Now you want me to endure all that vapid bilge written..... How unfair you are! Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign... it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve h....."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, ...... "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
I must have missed the word "perfect" in that quote, never mind my having described the campaign as such. I take that as tacit acceptance on your part that you are either delusional, dishonest or dim. Take your pick. I'm a generous man so I'm going to assume that you are all three.
Mr Meeks - do you think you could come down from your perch and consider that you might have been completely wrong in this piece? "Alastair Meeks wonders whether the LEAVE campaign has already sunk Tuesday, March 1st, 2016" http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/12/ "Leave has made a strategic choice by default, to offer all of these options to the voters and to let them decide which in practice will be on the table. Their hope is that each voter will choose the one they like the look of most. More likely, with Remain sure to run on the fear of a leap in the dark, undecided voters will decide that Leave would turn out for the worst. In the absence of events unfolding to favour Leave, it’s hard to see a route to victory for them. It may well be that Leave is already sunk."
CHORTLE
Yes, what judgement eh? Truly the great seer of our times.
Almost as a good as 'Alan Johnson will make a fine Shadow Chancellor'.
I think that Trump's performance in Mexico will give him a boost.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
Yes, in one stroke it removes the 'I can't imagine him as President' objection. Clinton was completely on the back foot in her comments today accusing him of 'dropping in' on Mexico.
Trump's timing is excellent. Wait for the DNC convention bump to subside and wham, control the airwaves again.
I will be amazed if he doesn't win on November.
Trump does some set pieces incredibly well. Rarely, if ever, has a British politician set a trap and had the other side walk in as much as that American (his veteran's donation antics are a prime example). Some remind me of a barrister in cross examination.
But some games he will struggle to play. I don't think the debates will be a strong point.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
May I take that as a denial that your ratio of pro REMAIN vs pro LEAVE articles and posts was dominated by pro REMAIN?
The most curious feature amongst the many curious features of the Brexit referendum - and one very well illustrated by the comments tonight - is that the winning side are so bitter. Normally it's the losing side you'd expect to be bitter.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
I think that Trump's performance in Mexico will give him a boost.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
Yes, in one stroke it removes the 'I can't imagine him as President' objection. Clinton was completely on the back foot in her comments today accusing him of 'dropping in' on Mexico.
Trump's timing is excellent. Wait for the DNC convention bump to subside and wham, control the airwaves again.
I will be amazed if he doesn't win on November.
Trump's done 17 press conferences to Hillary's NIL
He's owning the airwaves and pivoting all over the place - now he's directly asking for black and Hispanic votes on the basis that Chicago's perma Democrats allowed 2500 people to be shot THIS year so far.
Smith would not oppose a second Scottish independence referendum ttps://twitter.com/TheRedRag/status/771063116503343104
Smith is, unbelievably, dimmer than Corbyn.
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
Someone on here had a great description for Smith something like "the world's angriest double-glazing salesman".
Stephen Bush A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8
1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world. 2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position. 3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them. 4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
I would ban the burqa and the niqab; I wouldn't ban the burkini.
The key thing is the face. That's the line which is crossed -for me (and the vast majority of my fellow Brits). Take away the face, you take away the human being. It's seriously incredible that so many supposed feminists and "liberals" find the burqa acceptable. It really is not.
And it is merely the visible tip of the great iceberg of Islamic misogyny.
Ban it.
I really really don't like the full face burka. I just like the idea of banning it even less.
I'd like to know - from those few women who wear these things - what bad things they think will happen if they go out without covering their face.
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
On the other hand, the election of Smith would be a literally incredible extension of the Tom Knox Law of Labour Leaders: that the Labour party will always elevate a leader WORSE than the last leader.
If Owen wins, and in the light of Iraq, that would be six diminishing leaders in a row: Smith, Blair, Brown, Miliband, Corbyn... Smith.
Neat.
Nobody, even Smith could be worse than Corbyn (except for diehard Marxists)
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
May I take that as a denial that your ratio of pro REMAIN vs pro LEAVE articles and posts was dominated by pro REMAIN?
No. I've not counted them, feel free to count them. Your original assertion was bollocks.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve heard from “ among others “ Professor Stephen Hawking, a third of the FTSE-100 bosses, the Governor of the Bank of England and the US Secretary of State. Barack Obama is standing by ready to be deployed as necessary."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. .... "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
The enormous pomposity on display is epic - even by Twitter standards.
The worst thing Antifrank ever did was deciding to become a *personality* and appear in news articles and as himself here. It went straight to his head and stayed there.
All the 3 needed to do was just be a little bit humble, admit they completely effed up in their judgements and promised to do better.............
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
The fact that he is removable is, in and of itself, a reason to vote for him.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
No EEA, no Switzerland.
Switzerland, having recently voted by referendum to curb free movement, may well be looking at whatever deal we do get and perhaps trying to follow suit
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. As a result, Leave is being defined by its opponents. It looks increasingly as if Leave’s main chance of winning depends on events unfolding in a way that make undecided voters give up on the EU as a going concern. That doesn’t look like much of a strategy. "Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
The enormous pomposity on display is epic - even by Twitter standards.
The worst thing Antifrank ever did was deciding to become a *personality* and appear in news articles and as himself here. It went straight to his head and stayed there.
Yep - the rampant egomania on this site over the last several months has been its most notable feature.
Smith would not oppose a second Scottish independence referendum ttps://twitter.com/TheRedRag/status/771063116503343104
Smith is, unbelievably, dimmer than Corbyn.
The PLP, having already missed many opportunities to do something sensible, finally settled on selecting the Stupidest Man in Wales to stand against Corbyn.
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
Someone on here had a great description for Smith something like "the world's angriest double-glazing salesman".
I believe that was John_M of this parish.
It was indeed me wot done it. This entire year has been like an extended edition of the Moral Maze.
Soubry vs Farage Trump vs Clinton Smith vs Corbyn
We are living in debased times my friends, debased times.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
May I take that as a denial that your ratio of pro REMAIN vs pro LEAVE articles and posts was dominated by pro REMAIN?
No. I've not counted them, feel free to count them. Your original assertion was bollocks.
Well, that is the impression that you left us with. But just say "I wuz wrong" its a fair cop guv and wear those unique shoes at next PB event.
I am genuinely interested to see what happens. I just cannot see how the Tories square the circle. Saying we want it all is not going to be a sustainable position. Some very, very hard choices will have to be made.
Although the stuff today was almost entirely pure waffle, I think we are beginning to see the outlines of where the square is going to have rounded edges. The strategy seems to be a red line on freedom of movement, and, given that constraint, negotiate as much access to the Single Market as can be achieved. I think they are resigned to the reality that that means an end to financial passporting and that therefore there will be at least short-term damage to the City. I further think they will try all-out to get tariff- and hassle-free trade in manufactured goods (especially for the car industry, which has most to lose), and that should be attainable as it is very much in both sides' interest and the acquis communitaire which we're already signed up to makes it much easier than negotiating a free-trade agreement from scratch. The main areas of uncertainty on the economic side still relate to services.
Of course this is all subject to the politics of the other 27 EU countries, so no guarantees.
Yes, that could well be the strategy.
And I think it's the right one.
Yes, I think it is the right strategy, but I'm a bit concerned that it's all very waffly. Today's summary of the Cabinet discussion didn't exactly inspire confidence, but maybe we shouldn't read too much into that.
The most curious feature amongst the many curious features of the Brexit referendum - and one very well illustrated by the comments tonight - is that the winning side are so bitter. Normally it's the losing side you'd expect to be bitter.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
Have you ever seen The Deer Hunter? The most famous scene is that where US soldier Robert de Niro plays Russian Roulette with his Vietnamese captors, gambling his life in order for the chance of freedom. When the gamble pays off and his captors are dead, his fellow prisoner has to be dragged away from repeatedly smashing the now dead head torturer in the head with his gun
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
I'm not really too worried what pb's confederacy of dunces think of me.
PS Appols to TSE for not engaging in his excerpts from the vapid bilge written by him in favour of REMAIN, but TSE you could at least be a gentleman and admit that you wrote far more views in favour of REMAIN than for LEAVE... Unless of course you wish to re-write history as with Carthage? Time for sleep.
You're talking bollocks as per your original post.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
May I take that as a denial that your ratio of pro REMAIN vs pro LEAVE articles and posts was dominated by pro REMAIN?
No. I've not counted them, feel free to count them. Your original assertion was bollocks.
Well, that is the impression that you left us with. But just say "I wuz wrong" its a fair cop guv and wear those unique shoes at next PB event.
Well you're such a pathetic wanker*, come back when you've counted them. Until them shut up.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
I'm not really too worried what pb's confederacy of dunces think of me.
Didn't know you saw yourself as one of PB's dunces
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You cannot recognize deliberate hyperbole, really?
I can recognise arrant nonsense.
Good for you. That doesn't change that you, like many, engaged in rampant hyperbole, it is indisputable (even if you argue that every word you wrote on this subject was completely logical and correct, it has had a deliberately histrionic tone - and full of insulting others then being affronted that others also use insults with not a hint of self awareness) so getting mad at others using a similar tone is, apart from anything else, just plain silly.
One can only hope everyone will calm the fuck down, even if they think others have made inconceivably stupid or arrogant decisions, as the bitter moaning and pig headedness on display can be depressing. (Sorry, I forgot, people can throw emotionally tinged insults, but that doesn't mean they are not a calm little flower, my mistake).
Perhaps a system of embedded footers to posts could resolve matters? 'Leavers/Remains are effing idiots' automatically added no matter the subject, that way we all get the picture.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
I'm not really too worried what pb's confederacy of dunces think of me.
Fair enough. Just thought I'd put in a word for you.
The most curious feature amongst the many curious features of the Brexit referendum - and one very well illustrated by the comments tonight - is that the winning side are so bitter. Normally it's the losing side you'd expect to be bitter.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
The most curious feature amongst the many curious features of the Brexit referendum - and one very well illustrated by the comments tonight - is that the winning side are so bitter. Normally it's the losing side you'd expect to be bitter.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
I see very little bitterness from Leavers. Remoaners, meanwhile...
Amongst my vaguely political mates the discourse has moved on. They're taking holidays and rediscovering the joys of Staycations. And many think we've already left the EU....
I am thrilled with the way our political discourse has stopped pandering to PC and is now capable of confronting illiberalism, whether it be in the form of the EU or the Burka.
I find it frankly bizarre that authorising a government to dictate what people are permitted to wear can in any way, shape or form be described as liberalism. It's not. It's authoritarianism.
Really getting tired with the whingings of junior doctors now.
Middle classes striking doesn't work.
The smiling Jemimas are altogether too happy to be on the picket line from all the photos I've seen. And they want to be right, rather than winning compromise - which is the best that can ever be hoped for in industrial action.
In short, teachers and docs shouldn't bother striking. They'll never win.
I think that Trump's performance in Mexico will give him a boost.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
Yes, in one stroke it removes the 'I can't imagine him as President' objection. Clinton was completely on the back foot in her comments today accusing him of 'dropping in' on Mexico.
Trump's timing is excellent. Wait for the DNC convention bump to subside and wham, control the airwaves again.
I will be amazed if he doesn't win on November.
Trump does some set pieces incredibly well. Rarely, if ever, has a British politician set a trap and had the other side walk in as much as that American (his veteran's donation antics are a prime example). Some remind me of a barrister in cross examination.
But some games he will struggle to play. I don't think the debates will be a strong point.
If we look at Trump's tactics so far - he drags his opponents onto his ground using a supposed gaffe - then kills them. He's done it two dozen times and I can't believe they're still willingly sucked into it.
He talks in very short sentences - oft repeated, there's nothing intellectual or smug about it. It's simple and concise - catch just 60secs of a rally and you know the point he's making. It's like Brexit's Take Back Control on steroids.
I watched his thingy last night and he said Blacks were living in crap towns, with crap education, violence and weren't living the Dream - ditto Hispanics. And he'd deliver jobs jobs jobs.
Hillary can't match the simplicity of the rhetoric. She isn't black either. And frankly isn't terribly female either.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
I think we're going down the UK route, as advised by senior German politicians. We are sui generis.
I did read somewhere the other day, the politicians that will be the biggest obstacle for the UK getting a good deal is not German or other EU politicians, but the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party.
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
Absolute piffle, Young Darth Eagles. An election in Autumn 2017 ain't going to happen, let alone one caused by a split in the Conservative Party. Furthermore the outline of the deal (as opposed to HMG's wish list will not be known by that time).
If I didn't know you are now off the booze I would have ventured to suggest you had been dining well but not too wisely before you made that post. However, as I know that you are now sober as a wossname, how about a bet?
£50 to to the winners favourite charity that there will be no general election in 2017. What say you?
I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.
I fucking loathe it. Ban it.
Ban it immediately. Ban it.
I can beat that.
Just got back from Lynton and Lynmouth in North Devon.
I saw one there. On the beach. Full veil. Full Niqab/Burka. Everything.
In. North. Devon.
I was in Malmo, Sweden, last week, and saw, virtually adjacent, a topless woman and a woman in a burkini. Both looked quite nice. Neither of them seemed bothered by the other. People who worry about these things need to get a life, and men who think they have a special right to tell women what to wear should have a hard look in the mirror.
The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.
A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
You should re-read all your quotes and threaders, passim, from March-to-August 2016. In fact, for your own enlightenment, you should preserve them in Baltic amber. You performed an exquisite narrative arc from suave pomposity and lawyerly hauteur, to bitter and laughable tantrums, and the mindset of a special needs toddler deprived of a favourite stuffy.
Swings and roundabouts. I didn't align myself with a campaign that was based on pandering to xenophobia. I am comfortable with my conscience. Any decent Leaver would be ashamed of how the vote was won and fearful for how Britain's political discourse has been debased,
In politics, you win or lose. Leave were expected to turn up to a gunfight, armed with a knife. But, it turned out they had a gun after all.
Really getting tired with the whingings of junior doctors now.
Middle classes striking doesn't work.
The smiling Jemimas are altogether too happy to be on the picket line from all the photos I've seen. And they want to be right, rather than winning compromise - which is the best that can ever be hoped for in industrial action.
In short, teachers and docs shouldn't bother striking. They'll never win.
They might never win, but it'll be a Pyrrhic victory for us when they give up and emigrate.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
I'm not really too worried what pb's confederacy of dunces think of me.
Mr Meeks we love you really and promise a hug if we ever meet.
But just to explain why some of the LEAVE posters on here go for you and others it comes back to the unbalanced set of articles that appeared on this website. Just one example. Between 18th to 27th April there were 8 articles favourable to REMAIN and just 3 favourable to LEAVE. There were also 5 more neutral. Now why was there such domination for REMAIN? As a forecast to the eventual outcome it should have been a ratio closer to 9 for LEAVE and 8 for REMAIN.
May I suggest you consider, for example, some of the remarks tonight about Alastair. Or the bizarre, verging on insane, hostility towards Mark Carney, of all people. Or the bizarre hostility towards Cameron and Osborne, or President Obama, or the IMF.
It really is odd. I don't recall anything like it, from the winning side. At least with the Scottish nationalists the bitterness was on the losing side.
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
I think we're going down the UK route, as advised by senior German politicians. We are sui generis.
I did read somewhere the other day, the politicians that will be the biggest obstacle for the UK getting a good deal is not German or other EU politicians, but the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party.
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
Absolute piffle, Young Darth Eagles. An election in Autumn 2017 ain't going to happen, let alone one caused by a split in the Conservative Party. Furthermore the outline of the deal (as opposed to HMG's wish list will not be known by that time).
If I didn't know you are now off the booze I would have ventured to suggest you had been dining well but not too wisely before you made that post. However, as I know that you are now sober as a wossname, how about a bet?
£50 to to the winners favourite charity that there will be no general election in 2017. What say you?
Go on then, so long as your favourite charity isn't the RSPCA
I'm off to write the morning thread.
I suspect you're going to like tomorrow afternoon's thread though.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
A fair point. From one of those dunces that were so thick they voted for LEAVE............
May I suggest you consider, for example, some of the remarks tonight about Alastair. Or the bizarre, verging on insane, hostility towards Mark Carney, of all people. Or the bizarre hostility towards Cameron and Osborne, or President Obama, or the IMF.
It really is odd. I don't recall anything like it, from the winning side. At least with the Scottish nationalists the bitterness was on the losing side.
Really getting tired with the whingings of junior doctors now.
Middle classes striking doesn't work.
The smiling Jemimas are altogether too happy to be on the picket line from all the photos I've seen. And they want to be right, rather than winning compromise - which is the best that can ever be hoped for in industrial action.
In short, teachers and docs shouldn't bother striking. They'll never win.
They might never win, but it'll be a Pyrrhic victory for us when they give up and emigrate.
I thought they're striking because they need more money to emigrate?
The most curious feature amongst the many curious features of the Brexit referendum - and one very well illustrated by the comments tonight - is that the winning side are so bitter. Normally it's the losing side you'd expect to be bitter.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
What total bolleux.
I'm delighted as are the rest of us who hoped for the seemingly impossible.
Maybe time to go easy on Mr Meeks this evening now? I profoundly disagreed with him on Brexit but he adds mightily to this site both in terms of comments and thread headers.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
I'm not really too worried what pb's confederacy of dunces think of me.
Mr Meeks we love you really and promise a hug if we ever meet.
But just to explain why some of the LEAVE posters on here go for you and others it comes back to the unbalanced set of articles that appeared on this website. Just one example. Between 18th to 27th April there were 8 articles favourable to REMAIN and just 3 favourable to LEAVE. There were also 5 more neutral. Now why was there such domination for REMAIN? As a forecast to the eventual outcome it should have been a ratio closer to 9 for LEAVE and 8 for REMAIN.
In fairness nobody knew the result ratio then and if OGH or his appointed proconsul TSE want to publish xyz and not abc, well it's his/their right.
I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.
I fucking loathe it. Ban it.
Ban it immediately. Ban it.
I can beat that.
Just got back from Lynton and Lynmouth in North Devon.
I saw one there. On the beach. Full veil. Full Niqab/Burka. Everything.
In. North. Devon.
I was in Malmo, Sweden, last week, and saw, virtually adjacent, a topless woman and a woman in a burkini. Both looked quite nice. Neither of them seemed bothered by the other. People who worry about these things need to get a life, and men who think they have a special right to tell women what to wear should have a hard look in the mirror.
"... a topless woman and a woman in a burkini. Both looked quite nice."
Am I reading Theresa May's comments right? We're not going down the Norway route?
I think we're going down the UK route, as advised by senior German politicians. We are sui generis.
I did read somewhere the other day, the politicians that will be the biggest obstacle for the UK getting a good deal is not German or other EU politicians, but the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party.
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
May's biggest opponents at the next election will not be Corbyn and McDonnell, they will be IDS, Patterson, Redwood, Rees-Mogg, Davies, Bridgen etc and UKIP
I disagree. More likely to be Soubry, Osborne, Perry, Boles and Hancock...
I have to say that on some streets I can't help feeling that the streetscape would be more agreeable if the burqua were compulsory, rather than banned...
May I suggest you consider, for example, some of the remarks tonight about Alastair. Or the bizarre, verging on insane, hostility towards Mark Carney, of all people. Or the bizarre hostility towards Cameron and Osborne, or President Obama, or the IMF.
It really is odd. I don't recall anything like it, from the winning side. At least with the Scottish nationalists the bitterness was on the losing side.
Tsk. You mistake gleeful vengeful gloating for bitterness (which is no surprise, as REMAINERS are emotionally dyslexic, hence their defeat).
We're not bitter. We're exultant in victory. And we're rubbing your nose in it.
Magnanimous in Victory, Gracious in Defeat does not involve rubbing noses in anything.
This is not PB at its most edifying. The simple fact is that it's easy to disagree on such a pervasive and complex subject of the EU. We had a referendum, Leave carried the day and May can get on with it.
I've moved on from the politics of it, though still follow the economic side. I'd just rather we stopped squabbling over the rights and wrongs and returned to our unifying and traditional past-time of thinking of new ways to call Jeremy Corbyn a twat.
Comments
I think a way of dealing with it would be for non Muslims to start wearing them for a laugh, men and women, do loads of stupid goofy unislamic things while wearing them, such as wear them with high heels and shorts skirts, or doing the conga while drinking beer on a stag do etc, take photos and post them all over the Internet. Just rip the piss out of them like we have all other religions for years
Theresa May as Caligula. I compare appointing Liam Fox and David Davis as potentially the weirdest political appointments since Caligula appointed Incitatus a Senator.
I've also got a more modern day historical comparison coming up tomorrow afternoon, which I think will provoke a lot of comment and enrage a few
No-one mentioned burkinis.
People had trouble imagining how Trump would behave with foreign leaders, today he did behave, and with a leader who called him Hitler in the past.
It's not a Nixon in China moment, but it's close.
quite right too.
Perfect campaigning for REMAIN compared to that "hopelessly fractured" LEAVE campaign...
it all seemed to you and the other two to be going so wonderfully well...
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/8/
Mr Meeks "With roughly 100 days to go to the referendum, the Remain campaign is no doubt feeling cautiously optimistic. While the renegotiation of terms has not inspired, Remain has had a much better air war than Leave to date. .... A stately procession of the great and the good is being lined up to walk past us, each gravely prophesying that if we leave EU now, we’ll take away the biggest part of us. So far we’ve heard from “ among others “ Professor Stephen Hawking, a third of the FTSE-100 bosses, the Governor of the Bank of England and the US Secretary of State. Barack Obama is standing by ready to be deployed as necessary."
"Meanwhile, the Leave campaign is either absent from the airwaves or complaining about the unfair way in which Remain is pressing its case or, absurdly, wasting time challenging the bona fides of Remain’s star supporters. It is hopelessly fractured and has not even reached the stage of disagreement about its strategy, since they have not coalesced to the extent of being able to identify different strategies. As a result, Leave is being defined by its opponents. It looks increasingly as if Leave’s main chance of winning depends on events unfolding in a way that make undecided voters give up on the EU as a going concern. That doesn’t look like much of a strategy.
"Remain are evidently going to stick to a strategy that they believe will secure victory for them on 23 June of hammering away at the risks of taking a leap in the dark by voting to leave the EU. So far as the vote is concerned, I expect it to work, with the distinct possibility of a very sizeable numerical victory."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-hits-trump-dropping-mexico/story?id=41773006
I reckon Mrs May triggers article 50 next Feb, we get a rough outline of the deal by the summer of 2017, it will annoy the hard Brexiteers, she'll call an October general election and get a decent majority and will take that as the country endorsing her deal.
- Grand Ayatollah Nudistani.
and
Mr Meeks "The authority of the Prime Minister repeatedly warning of the dangers of leaving the EU is going to weigh heavily on uncommitted voters’ judgements."
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/9/
Even if Smith wins, he surely won’t survive a year, he is just too clumsy and accident-prone and thick.
I will be amazed if he doesn't win on November.
Runaway and hide in shame like Hannibal after Zama.
The enormous pomposity on display is epic - even by Twitter standards.
The worst thing Antifrank ever did was deciding to become a *personality* and appear in news articles and as himself here. It went straight to his head and stayed there.
"Alastair Meeks wonders whether the LEAVE campaign has already sunk Tuesday, March 1st, 2016"
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/page/12/
"Leave has made a strategic choice by default, to offer all of these options to the voters and to let them decide which in practice will be on the table. Their hope is that each voter will choose the one they like the look of most. More likely, with Remain sure to run on the fear of a leap in the dark, undecided voters will decide that Leave would turn out for the worst. In the absence of events unfolding to favour Leave, it’s hard to see a route to victory for them. It may well be that Leave is already sunk."
Now the poor sods are going to be toiling down the #Brexit mines for the next decade, towing a surly civil service behind them. Excellent.
We're in a right mess regarding free speech. It's a very unlevel playing field.
Bespoke Brexit it is.
I'd like to know - from those few women who wear these things - what bad things they think will happen if they go out without covering their face.
What is it that they fear?
Almost as a good as 'Alan Johnson will make a fine Shadow Chancellor'.
But some games he will struggle to play. I don't think the debates will be a strong point.
No, I don't know why it is either. Maybe a secret fear that they were wrong about the economics? It's the best explanation I can come up with for this very striking oddity.
He's owning the airwaves and pivoting all over the place - now he's directly asking for black and Hispanic votes on the basis that Chicago's perma Democrats allowed 2500 people to be shot THIS year so far.
He's totally shameless - NRA lovers adore him.
We all get a bit overblown at times - it can add to the fun.
Soubry vs Farage
Trump vs Clinton
Smith vs Corbyn
We are living in debased times my friends, debased times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE_zqVPr4HI
*Copyright SeanT
One can only hope everyone will calm the fuck down, even if they think others have made inconceivably stupid or arrogant decisions, as the bitter moaning and pig headedness on display can be depressing. (Sorry, I forgot, people can throw emotionally tinged insults, but that doesn't mean they are not a calm little flower, my mistake).
Perhaps a system of embedded footers to posts could resolve matters? 'Leavers/Remains are effing idiots' automatically added no matter the subject, that way we all get the picture.
Amongst my vaguely political mates the discourse has moved on. They're taking holidays and rediscovering the joys of Staycations. And many think we've already left the EU....
@Carra23: Balotelli on a free is still paying over the odds by Nice.
The smiling Jemimas are altogether too happy to be on the picket line from all the photos I've seen. And they want to be right, rather than winning compromise - which is the best that can ever be hoped for in industrial action.
In short, teachers and docs shouldn't bother striking. They'll never win.
He talks in very short sentences - oft repeated, there's nothing intellectual or smug about it. It's simple and concise - catch just 60secs of a rally and you know the point he's making. It's like Brexit's Take Back Control on steroids.
I watched his thingy last night and he said Blacks were living in crap towns, with crap education, violence and weren't living the Dream - ditto Hispanics. And he'd deliver jobs jobs jobs.
Hillary can't match the simplicity of the rhetoric. She isn't black either. And frankly isn't terribly female either.
If I didn't know you are now off the booze I would have ventured to suggest you had been dining well but not too wisely before you made that post. However, as I know that you are now sober as a wossname, how about a bet?
£50 to to the winners favourite charity that there will be no general election in 2017. What say you?
Fare thee well.
But just to explain why some of the LEAVE posters on here go for you and others it comes back to the unbalanced set of articles that appeared on this website. Just one example. Between 18th to 27th April there were 8 articles favourable to REMAIN and just 3 favourable to LEAVE. There were also 5 more neutral. Now why was there such domination for REMAIN? As a forecast to the eventual outcome it should have been a ratio closer to 9 for LEAVE and 8 for REMAIN.
Blimey.
May I suggest you consider, for example, some of the remarks tonight about Alastair. Or the bizarre, verging on insane, hostility towards Mark Carney, of all people. Or the bizarre hostility towards Cameron and Osborne, or President Obama, or the IMF.
It really is odd. I don't recall anything like it, from the winning side. At least with the Scottish nationalists the bitterness was on the losing side.
I'm off to write the morning thread.
I suspect you're going to like tomorrow afternoon's thread though.
REMAIN 48%
Suck it up, Richard
I'm delighted as are the rest of us who hoped for the seemingly impossible.
"... a topless woman and a woman in a burkini. Both looked quite nice."
What about the burkini?
I've moved on from the politics of it, though still follow the economic side. I'd just rather we stopped squabbling over the rights and wrongs and returned to our unifying and traditional past-time of thinking of new ways to call Jeremy Corbyn a twat.