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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nick Palmer on What next if Corbyn sweeps the board?

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are supposed to know it by reading the linked to article or the actual poll details before falsely claiming a negative. It is utterly dishonest and disreputable to falsely claim a negative if you never bothered to check your facts first.
    How am I supposed to know it? I am not psychic. In numerous paragraphs on poll findings on the burka a poll on the burkini was not mentioned once. All it needed was one sentence on it and then the link for context. It is most certainly not dishonest and disreputable to take what is written on this site if key facts are omitted, when mentioning polls all key facts should be included
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779

    I am genuinely interested to see what happens. I just cannot see how the Tories square the circle. Saying we want it all is not going to be a sustainable position. Some very, very hard choices will have to be made.

    Although the stuff today was almost entirely pure waffle, I think we are beginning to see the outlines of where the square is going to have rounded edges. The strategy seems to be a red line on freedom of movement, and, given that constraint, negotiate as much access to the Single Market as can be achieved. I think they are resigned to the reality that that means an end to financial passporting and that therefore there will be at least short-term damage to the City. I further think they will try all-out to get tariff- and hassle-free trade in manufactured goods (especially for the car industry, which has most to lose), and that should be attainable as it is very much in both sides' interest and the acquis communitaire which we're already signed up to makes it much easier than negotiating a free-trade agreement from scratch. The main areas of uncertainty on the economic side still relate to services.

    Of course this is all subject to the politics of the other 27 EU countries, so no guarantees.
    There's a useful chart here listing which sectors are most likely to get unrestricted access under an FTA, the tariffs or barriers that would apply if free access is not attained and the surplus or deficit the UK has in each area.

    The baseline in my view, as you also suggest, is an FTA covering the sectors marked as "high chance": cars, chemicals, aerospace and foodstuffs. The last is problematic because of the WTO negotiations that will have to go on at the same time with third parties. Services are unlikely to be included to any great extent.

    Unfortunately, the trade sectors that will be restricted are those where we do best as a country, while those where we do worst will be open trade for the EU side.

    A deal like this is similar to the one Korea signed with the EU, which is regarded as very unfavourable to Korea. It will also be a major backward step from where we are now

    In that case why would the UK sign up to a deal like that? Because it's still better than no deal at all. We get the to keep the car factories etc, for a while at least. Also, I suppose, it's always worth hanging on in the hope of a better deal some time in the future.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Question is is that enough red meat for say the French to sell to their voters along the lines of " ok we compromised on freedom of movement but we've tamed the beastly Anglo Saxon City"

    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are crazy, I will leave it at that.
    Think of me what you wish but in future when posting polls please do not omit some of the key findings
    Actually no, what you are suggesting is heavily frowned upon and an illegal breach of copyright. Posting highlights only and a link to full details is all that is permitted under Fair Use.
    No actually you are wrong it most certainly is not an illegal breach of copyright to provide one sentence giving a poll finding, not one word of the Burkini poll finding was given. There would have been no breach of copyright by including the key Burkini finding within the highlights and then providing the link for further details
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited August 2016
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are supposed to know it by reading the linked to article or the actual poll details before falsely claiming a negative. It is utterly dishonest and disreputable to falsely claim a negative if you never bothered to check your facts first.
    How am I supposed to know it? I am not psychic. In numerous paragraphs on poll findings on the burka a poll on the burkini was not mentioned once. All it needed was one sentence on it and then the link for context. It is most certainly not dishonest and disreputable to take what is written on this site if key facts are omitted, when mentioning polls all key facts should be included
    If you didn't know then why state categorically that it wasn't asked?
  • Options
    Me_Me_ Posts: 66
    PlatoSaid said:

    Miss Plato, but impeached for what?

    Budget fiddling IIRC
    She was impeached because she lost political support, the rest is history. People just invented a reason to put her and the country out of misery.
  • Options
    taffys said:

    ...........
    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.

    True.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    PlatoSaid said:

    Chris Terry
    Spain once again fails to form a government. 170-180 in vote of confidence. https://t.co/9zk1YYyVo6

    I read their next election would be Dec 25th!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    MontyHall said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are supposed to know it by reading the linked to article or the actual poll details before falsely claiming a negative. It is utterly dishonest and disreputable to falsely claim a negative if you never bothered to check your facts first.
    How am I supposed to know it? I am not psychic. In numerous paragraphs on poll findings on the burka a poll on the burkini was not mentioned once. All it needed was one sentence on it and then the link for context. It is most certainly not dishonest and disreputable to take what is written on this site if key facts are omitted, when mentioning polls all key facts should be included
    If you didn't know then why state categorically that it wasn't asked?
    I assumed based on what you had written in a brief comment, had you actually given proper highlights of the key poll findings no such assumption would have been made!
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    How surprising - no mental illness

    Breaking: The Met Police say that Sean Creighton, 44, from Enfield has been charged with nine public order offences and a terror offence.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    taffys said:

    Question is is that enough red meat for say the French to sell to their voters along the lines of " ok we compromised on freedom of movement but we've tamed the beastly Anglo Saxon City"

    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.

    I agree the Apple episode, whatever the rights and wrongs ( and yes there's an international corporate tax problem for sure ), shows a classic EU salami land grab . "State aid " is now differing tax rates - something the French have long whined about for example. Now as some on here have suggested they'll probably all climb down a bit on this one and time limit it and reduce 13bn to 1bn or whatever, but now the thought is there that the EU itself might have a sovereign tax "say", and so the tide will have gone out a bit on the nation state and next time the EU gets to start from higher up the beach as it oozes in. And all without anything as sordid as voters getting involved.

    So my overriding emotion on the Apple thing is - this is exactly the sort of nonsense I voted against. Better off out of it.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Hillary giving Trump some more free advertising...

    https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/771037992811163648
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Hillary giving Trump some more free advertising...

    ttps://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/771037992811163648

    I still can't quite believe that this election involves Trump supporters chanting "Lock Her UP!"

    This is the most bizarre year I've ever experienced in terms of politics.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    PlatoSaid said:

    How surprising - no mental illness

    Breaking: The Met Police say that Sean Creighton, 44, from Enfield has been charged with nine public order offences and a terror offence.

    Do you get charged with mental illness? Reduced culpability due to mental incapacity surely comes up at court.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    ...........
    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.

    True.
    REMAINIANS keep telling us Brexit was a shot in the dark. We didn't know what we were voting for. "Brexit means anything" etc

    For the life of me, I can't remember any REMAIN literature which told us that, in future, unelected EU commissioners would decide corporate tax rates, alter national tax laws, and so forth.

    Maybe it was in the small print.
    Mission creep is an EC core competency. And now, Bake Off.
  • Options
    Historians cannot go back to the early 19th century to interview members of the landed gentry and aristocracy defending their position against democracy but McEwan's clip provides a passable facsimile of their effortless, sneering drawl, their sense of entitlement, their belief in their God-given superiority, and their belief that what was good for them was good for the rest of the country including the wretched dispossessed that toiled in their fields.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    ...........
    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.

    True.
    REMAINIANS keep telling us Brexit was a shot in the dark. We didn't know what we were voting for. "Brexit means anything" etc

    For the life of me, I can't remember any REMAIN literature which told us that, in future, unelected EU commissioners would decide corporate tax rates, alter national tax laws, and so forth.

    Maybe it was in the small print.
    Indeed. Remain was not a vote for the status quo in my view, it was a vote to stay on the bus that's got to go somewhere else unknown, except, for the Eurozone at least that surely means "more Europe" or curtains, and that means almost certainly that the dynamic of our relationship was going to change in unknown ways too. I'd rather be in charge of ourselves.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    How surprising - no mental illness

    Breaking: The Met Police say that Sean Creighton, 44, from Enfield has been charged with nine public order offences and a terror offence.

    Do you get charged with mental illness? Reduced culpability due to mental incapacity surely comes up at court.
    I wonder if Sean is known locally as Mohammed? :smirk:
  • Options
    DaveDaveDaveDave Posts: 76
    If Khan stands as MP in 2020, not Mayor, then he will be next Labour Leader. He is a compulsive liar, so will be there best leader by far. I love Corbyn.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    ...........
    The Apple episode shows that if we'd stayed in, the EU would have destroyed the City completely. With Brexit, sure they can damage some parts of its Euro business, but the rest will be beyond their clutches, and may thrive even more.

    True.
    REMAINIANS keep telling us Brexit was a shot in the dark. We didn't know what we were voting for. "Brexit means anything" etc
    For the life of me, I can't remember any REMAIN literature which told us that, in future, unelected EU commissioners would decide corporate tax rates, alter national tax laws, and so forth. Maybe it was in the small print.
    REMAIN never gave us a vision of a wonderful future under the EU. It was more a vision of "much the same" whilst completely ignoring the direction of travel that the EU was going in.

    Probably avoided explaining this, lest they frightened the voters with honesty about where the EU was likely to be in 5, 10 and 20 years time. Clegg said something similar in his infamous 2014 debates with Farage, presenting to the voters a vision of the EU in the future as "much the same". The voters decided to trust Farage more than Clegg at those European elections and reduced the LDs to 1 MEP.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    PlatoSaid said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    How surprising - no mental illness

    Breaking: The Met Police say that Sean Creighton, 44, from Enfield has been charged with nine public order offences and a terror offence.

    Do you get charged with mental illness? Reduced culpability due to mental incapacity surely comes up at court.
    I wonder if Sean is known locally as Mohammed? :smirk:
    https://plus.google.com/photos/104265948077755067128/albums/profile/5968445291223663810

    White pride :p
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are supposed to know it by reading the linked to article or the actual poll details before falsely claiming a negative. It is utterly dishonest and disreputable to falsely claim a negative if you never bothered to check your facts first.
    How am I supposed to know it? I am not psychic. In numerous paragraphs on poll findings on the burka a poll on the burkini was not mentioned once. All it needed was one sentence on it and then the link for context. It is most certainly not dishonest and disreputable to take what is written on this site if key facts are omitted, when mentioning polls all key facts should be included
    You don't need to be psychic. Before claiming "the poll does not ask ..." the onus is on you and your alone to check if that is actually true. If you are unable to check if it's true or not then don't make the claim!
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Kevin Schofield
    FBU leader Matt Wrack: "The 4th biggest political movement in Britain is suspended members of the Labour party."
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    I can't read anything by NP without it coming to mind that he lost to Anna Soubry....FFS, Anna Soubry!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    I can't read anything by NP without it coming to mind that he lost to Anna Soubry....FFS, Anna Soubry!

    Remain HOLD Broxtowe ;)
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    He quoted highlights then posted a link to the full article. You replied categorically without having bothered to read the article that was linked to. This is not Mr Hall's fault!

    He obviously did not quote one of the key highlights, posting links are supposed to provide context after the key points have been made
    So what if he didn't quote a figure, where does that give you the right to claim they didn't ask the question?

    It is standard operating procedure that pollsters always ask many more questions than just the headline ones. Before anyone ever says that a question wasn't asked the basic due diligence would be to check that first. You didn't do that, so you made a dishonest claim. On a betting site dominated by polls at times, such misrepresentation is shocking and you should apologise. Conduct a basic checking of facts before you make an outright claim that a question wasn't asked at all.
    He posted line after line about the Burka, not one word about the Burkini, how am I supposed to know the poll included a question from the Burkini from that? Pollsters may well ask more questions, if they do add the key points, links are supposed to provide context and methodology. The misrepresentation if anything was to omit to mention perhaps one of the key poll findings when posting, if posting polls ALL key findings should be included.
    You are supposed to know it by reading the linked to article or the actual poll details before falsely claiming a negative. It is utterly dishonest and disreputable to falsely claim a negative if you never bothered to check your facts first.
    How am I supposed to know it? I am not psychic. In numerous paragraphs on poll findings on the burka a poll on the burkini was not mentioned once. All it needed was one sentence on it and then the link for context. It is most certainly not dishonest and disreputable to take what is written on this site if key facts are omitted, when mentioning polls all key facts should be included
    You don't need to be psychic. Before claiming "the poll does not ask ..." the onus is on you and your alone to check if that is actually true. If you are unable to check if it's true or not then don't make the claim!
    I would appreciate a post such as this from our friend HYUFD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ELbX5CMomE
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    MP_SE said:

    SeanT said:

    This is incredible


    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/771021661051248640

    Do the sneering REMAINIANS not realise how they come across to everyone else?

    He doesn't seem entirely with it.
    "I don't want to be ruled by the plebiscite"

    He meant to say plebs didn't he?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Dan Snow
    Wellington described his 1st cabinet as PM as 'an extraordinary affair. I gave them their orders & they
    wanted to stay & discuss them.'
    #May
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    edited August 2016

    Historians cannot go back to the early 19th century to interview members of the landed gentry and aristocracy defending their position against democracy but McEwan's clip provides a passable facsimile of their effortless, sneering drawl, their sense of entitlement, their belief in their God-given superiority, and their belief that what was good for them was good for the rest of the country including the wretched dispossessed that toiled in their fields.

    For me in the end, and having started as a remainer, what really clinched it was the attitude and "threats" of remainers, I couldn't stomach being on their side. I was willing to take the risk and go against some of my instincts rather than side with people who I find repellent. That the outcome has annoyed them so much is something I'm enjoying a lot. A couple of months on I'm intensely relaxed about my vote, and confident I made the right decision.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PlatoSaid said:

    Stephen Bush
    A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8

    It very much depends on whether one sees a Burka as liberal, or as an afront to liberalism.
  • Options
    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited August 2016
    Jason Farrell
    Challenge to JC is not about his leadership says John McDonnell "it is the establishment saying 'how dare you elect a socialist leader'"

    John McDonnell on JC having a small cabinet: "It's given me ideas about slimmed down government" he tells Momentum gathering.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,604

    Shape of things to come? Even with the state of UKIP!

    Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
    LAB in 3rd place behind UKIP amongst the 65+ segment in this evening’s ICM poll.
    CON 58%
    LAB 15%
    UKIP 16%
    LD 8%

    That's the established pattern now, not really new news. Labour were on 13% amongst 65+ in the last YouGov, with 58% Con and UKIP again 2nd on 16%. Yet even at these rock bottom levels, Corbyn is still underperforming against his party: 8% of those 65+ think Corbyn would be the better PM. 72% prefer May.

    Has Labour ever performed worse amongst those who were alive when Clement Attlee was PM?
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    PlatoSaid said:

    Jason Farrell
    Challenge to JC is not about his leadership says John McDonnell "it is the establishment saying 'how dare you elect a socialist leader'"

    John McDonnell on JC having a small cabinet: "It's given me ideas about slimmed down government" he tells Momentum gathering.

    Labour left wingers in small state shocker?
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    PlatoSaid said:

    Jason Farrell
    Challenge to JC is not about his leadership says John McDonnell "it is the establishment saying 'how dare you elect a socialist leader'"

    Of course in reality quite a large chunk of the establishment is very happy to see Labour lead by Corbyn.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited August 2016
    glw said:

    Historians cannot go back to the early 19th century to interview members of the landed gentry and aristocracy defending their position against democracy but McEwan's clip provides a passable facsimile of their effortless, sneering drawl, their sense of entitlement, their belief in their God-given superiority, and their belief that what was good for them was good for the rest of the country including the wretched dispossessed that toiled in their fields.

    For me in the end, and having started as a remainer, what really clinched it was the attitude and "threats" of remainers, I couldn't stomach being on their side. I was willing to take the risk and go against some of my instincts rather than side with people who I find repellent. That the outcome has annoyed them so much is something I'm enjoying a lot. A couple of months on I'm intensely relaxed about my vote, and confident I made the right decision.
    I'm intensely relaxed too. My only disappointment two and a bit months in is the BoE being a bunch of prats and cutting interest rates. Numpties.

    We export the majority of our output and the number of suppliers and customers who've mentioned Brexit is a big fat zero. Not one, not once. In other news today we invoiced customers in India, USA, Indonesia, and Israel. Think we've done Saudi, UAE, Pakistan, Japan and Turkey too this month. Amazing really as none are in the single market, so cannot possibly exist if you listened to some. The large enquiry from Russia that arrived late today is clearly fictitious too.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    On topic:
    It's possible to over intellectualise things---or over cook might be a better term. Like a recurring infection Corbyn looks like becoming a disaster for Labour. He should represent a minority splinter party in another political system.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    edited August 2016
    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense.

    * Reluctant, but a remainer despite all my reservations.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Written by Stephen Castle

    A man whose entire life has been bound up with the EU, and informed by his own europhilia.
    With quotes from The Centre for European Reform, a body setup to push europhilia in the UK under the guise of "reforming the EU". Thus Brexit leaves them with no future. When will their funding be cut?
    http://www.cer.org.uk/corporate-donors#tabs
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Observer
    New ABC/Washington Post Poll: Clinton as Disliked as Trump https://t.co/ydCo43BxYt
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    Historians cannot go back to the early 19th century to interview members of the landed gentry and aristocracy defending their position against democracy but McEwan's clip provides a passable facsimile of their effortless, sneering drawl, their sense of entitlement, their belief in their God-given superiority, and their belief that what was good for them was good for the rest of the country including the wretched dispossessed that toiled in their fields.

    There are plenty of written records and caricatures you could refer to, and, yes the similarities are marked.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2016
    For me the Irish getting slapped by the EU on Brexit is the best thing to happen since we voted out.

    Schadenfreude? yes. But this event shows the severe reservations many have about the EU's attitude are absolutely correct.

    It's like that moment in 'Independence Day' when the Spaceship over the White House blasts the 'friendship' helicopter trying to extend an olive branch. And the realisation....this f*cker IS hostile.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Talking of McEwan, The Cement Garden is a bloody good novel.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    Piffle.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    SeanT said:

    Written by Stephen Castle

    A man whose entire life has been bound up with the EU, and informed by his own europhilia.
    With quotes from The Centre for European Reform, a body setup to push europhilia in the UK under the guise of "reforming the EU". Thus Brexit leaves them with no future. When will their funding be cut?
    http://www.cer.org.uk/corporate-donors#tabs
    The sooner the better. They write rubbish.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    Piffle.
    Simply a statement of fact. The contract is being imposed hence the strike.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    taffys said:

    For me the Irish getting slapped by the EU on Brexit is the best thing to happen since we voted out.

    Schadenfreude? yes. But this event shows the severe reservations many have about the EU's attitude are absolutely correct.

    It's like that moment in 'Independence Day' when the Spaceship over the White House blasts the 'friendship' helicopter trying to extend an olive branch.

    One of the few scenes from Independence Day that I remember was the group of loony soap dodger types celebrating the arrival of the aliens and welcoming them with open arms. Moments later they were vaporised....
  • Options

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    The imposition is the correct action by the Government. This is political and the Junior Doctors will lose.
  • Options

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    A challenge for Mrs May. It probably needed a very "nice" person as the SoS for Health to gradually let the doctors have enough rope to hang themselves.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    SeanT said:

    The whole Apple and Ireland Thing is, perhaps, beginning to explain to Americans why we did Brexit


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/30/how-the-e-u-s-ruling-on-apple-explains-why-brexit-happened/

    I was saying that yesterday here. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case it does help to explain to Americans — many of whom seem to think the Brits have gone a bit mad — that the EU has some real powers to intervene in things they would consider the prerogative of a national government.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    I thought Dr that the BMA were satisfied with the last round of negotiations? So if they are happy, or at least, satisfied, what's the point in striking further?

    I could understand the logic of a week's strike if talks had broken down and the government had threatened mass sackings coupled with huge pay cuts, but they haven't. This junior doctors are instead starting to look more and more like Violet Elizabeth after she's been refused an icecream and had a shot of cocaine.

    I think that if they go ahead with this they will forfeit all public sympathy and probably face a very unpleasant public backlash. I can't imagine they want that but clearly they don't see how utterly unreasonable they appear to most of the public, who can only dream of that kind of money and many of whom work hours at least as long.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    welshowl said:

    We export the majority of our output and the number of suppliers and customers who've mentioned Brexit is a big fat zero. Not one, not once. In other news today we invoiced customers in India, USA, Indonesia, and Israel. Think we've done Saudi, UAE, Pakistan, Japan and Turkey too this month. Amazing really as none are in the single market, so cannot possibly exist if you listened to some. The large enquiry from Russia that arrived late today is clearly fictitious too.

    We may screw up trade with out nearest neighbours, although I expect it won't be a total disaster, but yes there's a whole wide world out there and hopefully we start looking at trade (especially for services) as something we need to think about globally.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    Piffle.
    Simply a statement of fact. The contract is being imposed hence the strike.
    The doctors representatives agreed a deal. The members decided to remove their support. How can any one negotiate anything with people who act in that way? Talks with such a group of people are futile. Until the junior doctors could prove that they can operate in a professional manner then there is no point in talking. Quite how the doctors can prove that they can be trusted in a negotiation is of course very hard to see, maybe even impossible due to the dysfunctional group that they have become.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Wellbelove
    How your position on a ballot paper can affect your success (surname Wellbelove!) https://t.co/pkayhiLHfP https://t.co/1qpZOPbSg1
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I'm very heartened by this. Common sense vs nitwit thinking.
  • Options
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336
    edited August 2016
    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense.

    * Reluctant, but a remainer despite all my reservations.
    I was a Remainer this time last year, and lived in happy expectation of Cameron delivering enough to quieten my eurosceptic soul.

    His "deal" was a catastrophe, both in the promise and in the actuality, and shunted me into the LEAVE camp. I never left. The sneering aristo-Remainers pushed me further...
    Yes, it is a source of constant personal embarrassment to me that I voted on the same side as David Lammy, Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Smith and Jean-Claude Druncker.

    I genuinely thought it was marginally the best decision in the circumstances but I'm slowly coming round to the view that I should have gone with my gut and voted out regardless of the risks, given the risks of staying in are rapidly being clarified as at least equally great.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    glw said:

    welshowl said:

    We export the majority of our output and the number of suppliers and customers who've mentioned Brexit is a big fat zero. Not one, not once. In other news today we invoiced customers in India, USA, Indonesia, and Israel. Think we've done Saudi, UAE, Pakistan, Japan and Turkey too this month. Amazing really as none are in the single market, so cannot possibly exist if you listened to some. The large enquiry from Russia that arrived late today is clearly fictitious too.

    We may screw up trade with out nearest neighbours, although I expect it won't be a total disaster, but yes there's a whole wide world out there and hopefully we start looking at trade (especially for services) as something we need to think about globally.
    My point exactly. Most of the company's better prospects these days are in the wide world outside of Europe. It's 2016 not 1973.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
    Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    My anecdote is a conversation with my younger sister last night. Moderately senior manager in Finnish multi-national. Brexit hasn't come up once internally. Nothing on their intranet, no senior management position statement, no contingency planning. Complete non-event.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    Wait 'till you see one driving a car. Safety is my main worry. As a cyclist and pedestrian I'm curious to know whether they can see properly. How would one find out?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    He's changed his tune again

    The Independent
    'Tell the EU to f*** off', says Ryanair boss after Apple ruling https://t.co/QRp9bG0IOd
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The whole Apple and Ireland Thing is, perhaps, beginning to explain to Americans why we did Brexit


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/30/how-the-e-u-s-ruling-on-apple-explains-why-brexit-happened/

    I was saying that yesterday here. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case it does help to explain to Americans — many of whom seem to think the Brits have gone a bit mad — that the EU has some real powers to intervene in things they would consider the prerogative of a national government.
    Trumpites certainly do not think the Brits went mad
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense.

    * Reluctant, but a remainer despite all my reservations.
    I was a Remainer this time last year, and lived in happy expectation of Cameron delivering enough to quieten my eurosceptic soul.

    His "deal" was a catastrophe, both in the promise and in the actuality, and shunted me into the LEAVE camp. I never left. The sneering aristo-Remainers pushed me further...
    Yes, it is a source of constant personal embarrassment to me that I voted on the same side as David Lammy, Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Smith and Jean-Claude Druncker.

    I genuinely thought it was marginally the best decision in the circumstances but I'm slowly coming round to the view that I should have gone with my gut and voted out regardless of the risks, given the risks of staying in are rapidly being clarified as at least equally great.
    Yes, you voted on the same side as people who think this:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/why-elections-are-bad-for-democracy

    Your repentance is understandable, and welcome...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    I can beat that.

    Just got back from Lynton and Lynmouth in North Devon.

    I saw one there. On the beach. Full veil. Full Niqab/Burka. Everything.

    In. North. Devon.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    Is that really want the talks to continue to resolve matters, or just wants talks to continue so they look reasonable without actually having any intention of resolving matters?

    I don't know that dispute - frankly, I no longer care about such matters though I know I should, because it is always such a political topic filled with lies and misrepresentations, and I'll just be told it's a disaster that needs more money or another reorganization in a year or two anyway - but it increasingly resembles NIMBY protestors who always demand 'more consultation' no matter how much ever occurs, a delaying tactic only.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    edited August 2016
    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    Wait 'till you see one driving a car. Safety is my main worry. As a cyclist and pedestrian I'm curious to know whether they can see properly. How would one find out?
    How do they know who is taking the driving test? Does the face need to be revealed for that?

    edited to add: good evening, everyone.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited August 2016

    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.

    Whenever you make that argument, I've linked enough of my threads showing you're talking bollocks.

    Just once, with feeling, here's just some of the threads I wrote.

    The EURef might be more like the AV referendum and not the Indyref

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/17/the-euref-might-be-more-like-the-av-referendum-and-not-the-indyref/

    Leave’s major advantage in the last three weeks of the campaign. The Tory press is on their side

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/02/leaves-major-advantage-in-the-last-three-weeks-of-the-campaign-the-tory-press-is-on-their-side/

    Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his life

    These don’t appear to be the actions of a PM confident of winning the referendum

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/01/greater-love-hath-no-man-than-this-that-he-lay-down-his-friends-for-his-life/

    Remain’s long term problems

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/04/24/remains-long-term-problems/

    Michael Gove could be set to play the role of Brutus to David Cameron’s Caesar

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/28/michael-gove-could-be-set-to-play-the-role-of-brutus-to-david-camerons-caesar/

    Meet the man who could win the referendum for Leave

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    Latest YouGov poll suggests Remain might experience a caTAFFstrophe in Wales

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/07/latest-yougov-poll-suggests-remain-might-see-a-cataffstrophe-in-wales/

    Independence Day is going to be mentioned a lot in the run up to June 23rd

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/31/nick-palmer-on-what-next-if-corbyn-sweeps-the-board/

    Apathy and the older voters might be the key for Out winning the referendum

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/31/apathy-and-the-older-voters-might-be-the-key-for-out-winning-the-referendum/

    I could link links to more of my pieces, but I'd hate for you to look even more stupider than you already are. Normally when I post these threads, you go silent, so any chance of you finding a thread of me saying Remain was perfect?

    You're in danger of sounding like slow Sam from Essex, my Muslim obsessed fan.
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
    "It's the economy, stupid"?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why is the Mexican president hosting an official press conference with Trump? Makes Trump look presidential.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Tony Harris
    Today JC said he donated pay rec'd from Press TV to his CLP. The 4 pages of donations to INCLP on the EC's website include nothing from him
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336
    edited August 2016
    runnymede said:

    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense.

    * Reluctant, but a remainer despite all my reservations.
    I was a Remainer this time last year, and lived in happy expectation of Cameron delivering enough to quieten my eurosceptic soul.

    His "deal" was a catastrophe, both in the promise and in the actuality, and shunted me into the LEAVE camp. I never left. The sneering aristo-Remainers pushed me further...
    Yes, it is a source of constant personal embarrassment to me that I voted on the same side as David Lammy, Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Smith and Jean-Claude Druncker.

    I genuinely thought it was marginally the best decision in the circumstances but I'm slowly coming round to the view that I should have gone with my gut and voted out regardless of the risks, given the risks of staying in are rapidly being clarified as at least equally great.
    Yes, you voted on the same side as people who think this:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/why-elections-are-bad-for-democracy

    Your repentance is understandable, and welcome...
    Well be fair Runnymede, if I had been voting leave I would have been saying in effect that I trusted Michael Gove, who regards all teachers as his mortal enemies and has spent many years trying to destroy their profession.

    Edit - can I clarify that didn't decide my vote, but it certainly soothed my conscience at the time.
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.

    Whenever you make that argument, I've linked enough of my threads showing you're talking bollocks.

    Just once, with feeling, here's just some of the threads I wrote.

    The EURef might be more like the AV referendum and not the Indyref

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/17/the-euref-might-be-more-like-the-av-referendum-and-not-the-indyref/

    Leave’s major advantage in the last three weeks of the campaign. The Tory press is on their side

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/02/leaves-major-advantage-in-the-last-three-weeks-of-the-campaign-the-tory-press-is-on-their-side/

    Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his life

    These don’t appear to be the actions of a PM confident of winning the referendum

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/01/greater-love-hath-no-man-than-this-that-he-lay-down-his-friends-for-his-life/

    Remain’s long term problems

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/04/24/remains-long-term-problems/

    Michael Gove could be set to play the role of Brutus to David Cameron’s Caesar

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/28/michael-gove-could-be-set-to-play-the-role-of-brutus-to-david-camerons-caesar/

    Meet the man who could win the referendum for Leave

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    Latest YouGov poll suggests Remain might experience a caTAFFstrophe in Wales

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/07/latest-yougov-poll-suggests-remain-might-see-a-cataffstrophe-in-wales/

    Independence Day is going to be mentioned a lot in the run up to June 23rd

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/31/nick-palmer-on-what-next-if-corbyn-sweeps-the-board/

    Apathy and the older voters might be the key for Out winning the referendum

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/31/apathy-and-the-older-voters-might-be-the-key-for-out-winning-the-referendum/

    I could link links to more of my pieces, but I'd hate for you to look even more stupider than you already are. Normally when I post these threads, you go silent, so any chance of you finding a thread of me saying Remain was perfect?
    'I could link links to more of my pieces, but I'd hate for you to look even more stupider than you already are.'

    Edit that on the quick!
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense.

    * Reluctant, but a remainer despite all my reservations.
    I was a Remainer this time last year, and lived in happy expectation of Cameron delivering enough to quieten my eurosceptic soul.

    His "deal" was a catastrophe, both in the promise and in the actuality, and shunted me into the LEAVE camp. I never left. The sneering aristo-Remainers pushed me further...
    Yes, it is a source of constant personal embarrassment to me that I voted on the same side as David Lammy, Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Smith and Jean-Claude Druncker.

    I genuinely thought it was marginally the best decision in the circumstances but I'm slowly coming round to the view that I should have gone with my gut and voted out regardless of the risks, given the risks of staying in are rapidly being clarified as at least equally great.
    Both sides have their crosses to bear. Despite being an avowed BOOer since the EU Constitution/Lisbon shenanigans, I was very worried about the timing, 2016 really wasn't the best time to hold a referendum as the economy isn't in great shape, despite surface appearances.

    I'm still not sure I did the right thing, though the initial shock I expected has been far milder than I could have hoped. Part of growing old I suppose. Certainty is for the young.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    AndyJS said:

    Why is the Mexican president hosting an official press conference with Trump? Makes Trump look presidential.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump backtrack on a whole bunch of comments he has made on immigration due to having a really constructive meeting with the president.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    PlatoSaid said:

    Stephen Bush
    A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8

    1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world.
    2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position.
    3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them.
    4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336
    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    Oh no not in Waitrose. Ahhh is nowhere safe from these suburban ninjas?
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    AnneJGP said:

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    Wait 'till you see one driving a car. Safety is my main worry. As a cyclist and pedestrian I'm curious to know whether they can see properly. How would one find out?
    How do they know who is taking the driving test? Does the face need to be revealed for that?

    edited to add: good evening, everyone.
    Cycling, I was seriously cut off last year by such a one. But whether it was ignorance of the highway code or something worse I can't say.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    The jury is out for me. I reluctantly voted Remain, although as the votes came in I cheered Leave. Because I honestly felt (and feel) that the best future for the UK was outside Europe. I just wasn't sure if we'd get it, or some knock off with all the disadvantages of Brexit and none of the advantages. But every time some pillock in Europe mouths off, I feel a little more confident in Britain's new path.
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    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
    Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
    You cannot recognize deliberate hyperbole, really?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
    Who is Lepidus?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336

    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
    Surely not? I don't think Sam Cam is quite his type...
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    ydoethur said:

    Dianne Abbott on the Junior Doctors is just so depressing. How can anyone even start to justify Junior Doctors walking out of A and E for five days. They are being led by Corbyn supporters whose stated intention is to bring down the Government. This is a modern day miner's strike and must be resisted. Just impose the contracts as there is no talking to them

    The strike exists because of imposition. The Juniors want talks to continue.
    I thought Dr that the BMA were satisfied with the last round of negotiations? So if they are happy, or at least, satisfied, what's the point in striking further?

    I could understand the logic of a week's strike if talks had broken down and the government had threatened mass sackings coupled with huge pay cuts, but they haven't. This junior doctors are instead starting to look more and more like Violet Elizabeth after she's been refused an icecream and had a shot of cocaine.

    I think that if they go ahead with this they will forfeit all public sympathy and probably face a very unpleasant public backlash. I can't imagine they want that but clearly they don't see how utterly unreasonable they appear to most of the public, who can only dream of that kind of money and many of whom work hours at least as long.
    It is our NHS not their NHS. And the strike is about money not patient safety.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
    Best if Sarah Vine avoids asps for the present then?
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    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
    Who is Lepidus?
    I'm still struggling on that. I keep on vacillating on a few options.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    I am genuinely interested to see what happens. I just cannot see how the Tories square the circle. Saying we want it all is not going to be a sustainable position. Some very, very hard choices will have to be made.

    Although the stuff today was almost entirely pure waffle, I think we are beginning to see the outlines of where the square is going to have rounded edges. The strategy seems to be a red line on freedom of movement, and, given that constraint, negotiate as much access to the Single Market as can be achieved. I think they are resigned to the reality that that means an end to financial passporting and that therefore there will be at least short-term damage to the City. I further think they will try all-out to get tariff- and hassle-free trade in manufactured goods (especially for the car industry, which has most to lose), and that should be attainable as it is very much in both sides' interest and the acquis communitaire which we're already signed up to makes it much easier than negotiating a free-trade agreement from scratch. The main areas of uncertainty on the economic side still relate to services.

    Of course this is all subject to the politics of the other 27 EU countries, so no guarantees.
    Yes, that could well be the strategy.

    And I think it's the right one.
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @TSE, I think Gove ended up as Cassius rather than Brutus.

    Actually I'm doing a sequel to that thread, I'm wondering if Gove is Marcus Antonius
    Surely not? I don't think Sam Cam is quite his type...
    Yeah, that's another problem.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    kle4 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Stephen Bush
    A plurality of Liberal Democrat voters have a weird idea of the word "liberal" it seems. https://t.co/MNKR1ixIM8

    1) Party names are no guarantee of a party's ideological position. Many Tories would argue they have not had a proper conservative party for awhile, and there are several Conservative parties called Liberal parties in the world.
    2) Even where the name does reflect the party position, many people will support only part of the ideological position. And others will have no real understanding of it and support what they think is the position.
    3) Usually liberal or progressive or fair or sensible policies to most people just means things they support, so such a incongruity does not occur to them.
    4) And yes, some few may still be liberal but feel in this instance some sacrifice of liberty is justified.
    Liberals were less supportive of the burka ban than voters for other parties and they opposed a burkini ban as did Labour voters
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Support for a burka ban by 2015 party voters:

    Con: 66%
    Lab 48%
    LD 42%
    UKIP 84%

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/770988369270669312/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    I saw a woman in a niqab/burqa in my Camden Waitrose today. First time ever.

    I fucking loathe it. Ban it.

    Ban it immediately. Ban it.
    I can beat that.

    Just got back from Lynton and Lynmouth in North Devon.

    I saw one there. On the beach. Full veil. Full Niqab/Burka. Everything.

    In. North. Devon.
    They are horrible and I agree with the majority of Lib Dem, Tory and Labour voters: ban them.
    My views have hardened on this, I'm afraid. I thought this article by Allison Pearson today was good:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/burkinis-heres-why-we-should-fight-them-on-the-beaches/

    A line in the sand must be drawn.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    The imperious sneering, superior chortling, and bogus "neutrality" of Alistair Meeks and Richard Nabavi, of this selfsame parish, shifted me from 60% LEAVE to 80%.

    A year ago I was a die-hard remainer*, believing that Cameron would easily be able to satisfy me with his renegotiations. But when the details of the renegotiations "leaked", and they weren't the usual expectations management but arguably not even quite as dire as the result, that's when I started to change my mind. My decision to vote Leave was almost entirely driven by the Remain campaign and the things Remainers have said. I never expected to vote Leave so I suppose I owe them some thanks for making me see sense....
    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.
    Find a single example where I said that the Remain campaign was perfect.
    You cannot recognize deliberate hyperbole, really?
    I can recognise arrant nonsense.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Smith would not oppose a second Scottish independence referendum
    https://twitter.com/TheRedRag/status/771063116503343104
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    This is impossible. We were regularly advised by the infamous europhile PB triumvirate of Meeks,TSE and Nabavi that the REMAIN campaign was perfect and that the LEAVE campaign was converting LEAVErs to REMAIN....... It was complete Horlicks.

    The Leave campaign was rubbish, a lot of nonsense, dubious figures, some stupid dog-whistle posters, and it was divided.

    Despite all the advantages Remain had their campaign was worse, it was an almost endless succession of the great and the good either threatening or talking down a country I love dearly. And there was hardly a positive word for the EU, something apparently so vital to our country's interest but Remain struggled to name some of these good points. I presume that the PR, marketing, and advertising people behind the Remain campaign are now both unemployed and unemployable in those fields.
This discussion has been closed.