I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
In Canada currently. Leamington as from next Thursday.
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Can I come too?? I am on fire after a liquid lunch :-D
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
I'm struggling to understand.
If a truck is going from Paris to London it will - in all likelihood - be shipped by either a UK or a French truck.
If we're saying it can only come from a UK truck, that would be a staggeringly big non tariff barrier, that would essentially eliminate all chance of an FTA with the EU.
not quite what I'm saying Mr RCS. As I understand it on crossborder traffic UK truckers get undercut by a combination of romanians paid 4 soya beans a day and heavily on taxes whereby the UK trucker has to pay motorway tolls in Europe but the EU has blocked the UK moving to the same system as discriminatory.
In any event most UK traffic is internal and shipped by british companies. so I'm lost where youre coming from in return:-)
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Please could I come along? Someone would need to recommend somewhere to stay though (need not be at all posh, a reasonable pub or B&b will do for me).
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Can I come too?? I am on fire after a liquid lunch :-D
That went without saying, Mr T invited us both :-)
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Please could I come along? Someone would need to recommend somewhere to stay though (need not be at all posh, a reasonable pub or B&b will do for me).
Mr L for a gentleman of your great standing, I;ll put you up for the price of a pint :-)
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Can I come too?? I am on fire after a liquid lunch :-D
That went without saying, Mr T invited us both :-)
Am off out now, but would love to get something organised - the City owes the Midlands big time ;-)
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Can I come too?? I am on fire after a liquid lunch :-D
That went without saying, Mr T invited us both :-)
Am off out now, but would love to get something organised - the City owes the Midlands big time ;-)
I'll send you a note and see if we can sort out something in September ?
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
It would be I'm sure a great lunch. But what is this "Brum" of which you speak?
Edit: I realise the delicate state we're all in forces me to add: kidding!! Re. Brum...
the debate really hasnt moved on, it's still rich remainers worrying about their wallets.
And rich Leavers happy they'll not feel any meaningful financial downside.
Of course, the well-off were never going to be affected very much whatever the result.
it was the less well off who swung the out vote.
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely
indeed this is the bit the remainers didnt get - a forklift truck driver gets th.e same vote as an investment banker.
as the old saying goes who was it thought telling ex coalminers that bankers would lose their bonuses and David Cameron his job would swing the argument for Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven down the cost of transporting goods for British firms, lowering their costs and allowing them to compete better.
Presumably, as well, for goods going from the UK to EU (and vice-versa), we would expect that cheap foreign drivers will end up doing the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do.
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
It would be I'm sure a great lunch. But what is this "Brum" of which you speak?
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
It would be I'm sure a great lunch. But what is this "Brum" of which you speak?
It's like The Smoke down your way :-)
Sounds perfectly ghastly. What's the easiest route from Primrose Hill?
I'm currently drinking a glass of fabulous (albeit probably overpriced) Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignion. Like a lot of US wines, they've gone too big, and too alcoholic.
Having just looked at the Ipsos Mori tables in detail , it is clear that the headline voting intention figures are based on just 657 voters - ie those who indicated they were at least 90% certain to vote. The precise figures came out as -Con 44.6% Lab 34.1% with the lead at 10.5%.. The Lab to Con swing was 1.95% across GB implying a Tory majority of 46. In England the swing was a bit lower at 1.5%.
The Brexit vote took place in a relatively benign economic environment so we are talking about growth forsworn rather than actual decline in the first instance. The downpayment on Brexit is 2% of GDP in the next couple of years and we will have to see what happens after that.
I think the economic effects will be patchy. It could be catastrophic for farmers, depending on what happens at the WTO. Bad for them but they only make up a small part of the overall economy. The City of London will be significantly hit, I suspect, but that's highly mobile work anyway. The rest will be marginal investment that drifts elsewhere.
The main problem with Brexit, as I see it, is that it will dominate government and business strategy for the next ten years. It will take years of grief, argument and gruelling effort to salvage as much as possible of the status quo and yet we will end up well short of where we were. That's just nuts.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY
Jesus. Why don't REMAINIACS get this?
The EU is about complete political integration; forging a new country called Europe. Its founding fathers and ideologists were admirably honest and upfront about this. The direction of travel is always for power to be transferred to the centre. I don't want to be part of that new nation, and if that means I'll be slightly poorer, ten years from now, than I would otherwise have been, so be it.
I'm not even sure we'll be slightly poorer. We could be a LOT richer, certainly in 20 years - judging by the experience of non-EU Anglophone countries like Canada, Oz, and the USA (let alone non-EU European countries like Switzerland and Norway).
The reason LEAVE is a good decision is because it restores sovereign power to the British people.
After Brexit, Westminster matters, mightily, once more. Every vote we cast in OUR elections will go to a party who will be able to make, amend and repeal every single law that governs us. We may decide to follow some EU laws in terms of the Single Market. Equally, we may not. BUT WE GET TO CHOOSE FROM NOW ON. We will not be able to hide from our mistakes. The government will not be able to smuggle laws past the people by "blaming Brussels".
This will have incalculable effects on our politics as it unfolds. Almost all good. Because we will be the free, liberal, sturdy, indomitable, self critical yet self reliant island nation we once were.
And these piddling REMANIANS go on about the nasty hit on their portfolios. Wankers.
Unbelievably naive and strikingly ignorant of how the modern world works!
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
I'm not even sure we'll be slightly poorer. We could be a LOT richer, certainly in 20 years - judging by the experience of non-EU Anglophone countries like Canada, Oz, and the USA (let alone non-EU European countries like Switzerland and Norway).
The reason LEAVE is a good decision is because it restores sovereign power to the British people.
After Brexit, Westminster matters, mightily, once more. Every vote we cast in OUR elections will go to a party who will be able to make, amend and repeal every single law that governs us. We may decide to follow some EU laws in terms of the Single Market. Equally, we may not. BUT WE GET TO CHOOSE FROM NOW ON. We will not be able to hide from our mistakes. The government will not be able to smuggle laws past the people by "blaming Brussels".
This will have incalculable effects on our politics as it unfolds. Almost all good. Because we will be the free, liberal, sturdy, indomitable, self critical yet self reliant island nation we once were.
And these piddling REMANIANS go on about the nasty hit on their portfolios. Wankers.
Canada, Australia and Norway are all massive resource exporters. Something like 80% of Australia's exports are dug out of the ground. So, I'm not sure comparing those countries with the UK is necessarily fair.
Switzerland, on the other hand, is a much better example. Despite it's very expensive currency, it runs a surplus in the exports of physical products. Wages are high. Unemployment is non-existent. It has open borders, and yet essentially no illegal immigration. It's a lesson to us all.
the debate really hasnt moved on, it's still rich remainers worrying about their wallets.
And rich Leavers happy they'll not feel any meaningful financial downside.
Of course, the well-off were never going to be affected very much whatever the result.
it was the less well off who swung the out vote.
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely r Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do.
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
hmm
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
And by shipping them in twos and threes, they're not going to have a 40' container load of them sized by customs on the way to the local market stalls.
Most of the really good knockoffs are actually the real factory doing an unofficial night shift.
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Please could I come along? Someone would need to recommend somewhere to stay though (need not be at all posh, a reasonable pub or B&b will do for me).
Mr L for a gentleman of your great standing, I;ll put you up for the price of a pint :-)
Mr. Brooke, that is a very generous offer, but for the sake of Mrs. Brooke and any Brooklettes that might be at home I cannot accept. When I have a had a few (and I doubt our day/evening will be abstemious) I have a distressing tendency to snore (can be heard down the Street, I am told) and also to get up for a wee every hour. I could not therefore countenance inflicting myself of the Brooke household. A nearby, hotel, pub, B&B will be more than adequate.
Anyway the important thing is to set this up quickly. Not just because If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well. It were done quickly, but because too many PB meetings over the years have not happened because their intended participants have let, "I dare not wait upon I would, Like a poor cat i'th'adage"
You blokes work and so have commitments, so you just get on and set a date. I'll fit in. HurstLlama at Gmail dot net will find me.
the debate really hasnt moved on, it's still rich remainers worrying about their wallets.
And rich Leavers happy they'll not feel any meaningful financial downside.
Of course, the well-off were never going to be affected very much whatever the result.
it was the less well off who swung the out vote.
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely r Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do.
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
hmm
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
I think Amazon actually has distribution centres in the Republic outside Dublin and in the North in Antrim.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Are they actually made of cotton, frinstance? (The test is: do they melt or burn if you hold a match to them). I don't want to sound remotely ad hominem, but it seems perverse, if you regularly travel the world by first-class hyperdrive with added platinum airmiles, to do so in a polyester knock-off.
the debate really hasnt moved on, it's still rich remainers worrying about their wallets.
And rich Leavers happy they'll not feel any meaningful financial downside.
Of course, the well-off were never going to be affected very much whatever the result.
it was the less well off who swung the out vote.
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely r Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do.
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
hmm
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
I think Amazon actually has distribution centres in the Republic outside Dublin and in the North in Antrim.
my daughter who lives in Waterford ( plus Irish boyfirend ) say they cant get a delivery service from Amazon. Or tather they can if they wish to pick it up in the North.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Are they actually made of cotton, frinstance? (The test is: do they melt or burn if you hold a match to them). I don't want to sound remotely ad hominem, but it seems perverse, if you regularly travel the world by first-class hyperdrive with added platinum airmiles, to do so in a polyester knock-off.
There's a reason I can afford to travel the world in First Class...
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Please could I come along? Someone would need to recommend somewhere to stay though (need not be at all posh, a reasonable pub or B&b will do for me).
Mr L for a gentleman of your great standing, I;ll put you up for the price of a pint :-)
Mr. Brooke, that is a very generous offer, but for the sake of Mrs. Brooke and any Brooklettes that might be at home I cannot accept. When I have a had a few (and I doubt our day/evening will be abstemious) I have a distressing tendency to snore (can be heard down the Street, I am told) and also to get up for a wee every hour. I could not therefore countenance inflicting myself of the Brooke household. A nearby, hotel, pub, B&B will be more than adequate.
Anyway the important thing is to set this up quickly. Not just because If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well. It were done quickly, but because too many PB meetings over the years have not happened because their intended participants have let, "I dare not wait upon I would, Like a poor cat i'th'adage"
You blokes work and so have commitments, so you just get on and set a date. I'll fit in. HurstLlama at Gmail dot net will find me.
fear not Mr L I reckon my snores will drown yours out !
Mmm, I've known Pete for a long time - certainly very much on the left, though not a disciplined disciple of anyone, I think - e.g. in his blog he favoured Britain intervening in Syria (in support of Cameron's proposals), arguing that Assad's atrocities were too great to tolerate.
my daughter who lives in Waterford ( plus Irish boyfirend ) say they cant get a delivery service from Amazon. Or tather they can if they wish to pick it up in the North.
The Brexit vote took place in a relatively benign economic environment so we are talking about growth forsworn rather than actual decline in the first instance. The downpayment on Brexit is 2% of GDP in the next couple of years and we will have to see what happens after that.
I think the economic effects will be patchy. It could be catastrophic for farmers, depending on what happens at the WTO. Bad for them but they only make up a small part of the overall economy. The City of London will be significantly hit, I suspect, but that's highly mobile work anyway. The rest will be marginal investment that drifts elsewhere.
The main problem with Brexit, as I see it, is that it will dominate government and business strategy for the next ten years. It will take years of grief, argument and gruelling effort to salvage as much as possible of the status quo and yet we will end up well short of where we were. That's just nuts.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
For electronics, I wouldn't touch the likes of that with a bargepole.
In fact I'm becoming increasingly wary of Amazon. As more and more of "their" products are actually sold by third parties, anything with a decent price tag on it sets off the same kind of alarm bells I used to reserve for ebay.
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely r Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do.
I would say we should have higher prices and higher salaries.
the benefits of lower costs arent being distributed evenly, there are too many sinecures in the system which are not being sorted out.
for example why does a small shopkeeper face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
hmm
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
The article is misleading by referring only to corporation tax. The reason for the grant would be to create much needed jobs in an area of high unemployment - it will save the govt the cost of benefits for those people, as well as receiving payroll taxes from the workforce. A large employer also generates income around the local community, such as cafes, as well as the knock on effects of more money in the local economy, plus the construction jobs and money for the warehouse itself.
All of the above are taken into account when looking at schemes such as this.
my daughter who lives in Waterford ( plus Irish boyfirend ) say they cant get a delivery service from Amazon. Or tather they can if they wish to pick it up in the North.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Are they actually made of cotton, frinstance? (The test is: do they melt or burn if you hold a match to them). I don't want to sound remotely ad hominem, but it seems perverse, if you regularly travel the world by first-class hyperdrive with added platinum airmiles, to do so in a polyester knock-off.
There's a reason I can afford to travel the world in First Class...
The Brexit vote took place in a relatively benign economic environment so we are talking about growth forsworn rather than actual decline in the first instance. The downpayment on Brexit is 2% of GDP in the next couple of years and we will have to see what happens after that.
I think the economic effects will be patchy. It could be catastrophic for farmers, depending on what happens at the WTO. Bad for them but they only make up a small part of the overall economy. The City of London will be significantly hit, I suspect, but that's highly mobile work anyway. The rest will be marginal investment that drifts elsewhere.
The main problem with Brexit, as I see it, is that it will dominate government and business strategy for the next ten years. It will take years of grief, argument and gruelling effort to salvage as much as possible of the status quo and yet we will end up well short of where we were. That's just nuts.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY
Jesus. Why don't REMAINIACS get this?
The EU is about complete political integration; forging a new country called Europe. Its founding fathers and ideologists were admirably honest and upfront about this. The direction of travel is always for power to be transferred to the centre. I don't want to be part of that new nation, and if that means I'll be slightly poorer, ten years from now, than I would otherwise have been, so be it.
I'm not even sure we'll be slightly poorer. We could be a LOT richer, certainly in 20 years - judging by the experience of non-EU Anglophone countries like Canada, Oz, and the USA (let alone non-EU European countries like Switzerland and Norway).
The reason LEAVE is a good decision is because it restores sovereign power to the British people.
After Brexit, Westminster matters, mightily, once more. Every vote we cast in OUR elections will go to a party who will be able to make, amend and repeal every single law that governs us. We may decide to follow some EU laws in terms of the Single Market. Equally, we may not. BUT WE GET TO CHOOSE FROM NOW ON. We will not be able to hide from our mistakes. The government will not be able to smuggle laws past the people by "blaming Brussels".
This will have incalculable effects on our politics as it unfolds. Almost all good. Because we will be the free, liberal, sturdy, indomitable, self critical yet self reliant island nation we once were.
And these piddling REMANIANS go on about the nasty hit on their portfolios. Wankers.
We may be richer or poorer than would otherwise be the case, but our GDP per head will be above $40,000, and so any problems we face will be rich peoples' problems.
I'm not even sure we'll be slightly poorer. We could be a LOT richer, certainly in 20 years - judging by the experience of non-EU Anglophone countries like Canada, Oz, and the USA (let alone non-EU European countries like Switzerland and Norway).
The reason LEAVE is a good decision is because it restores sovereign power to the British people.
After Brexit, Westminster matters, mightily, once more. Every vote we cast in OUR elections will go to a party who will be able to make, amend and repeal every single law that governs us. We may decide to follow some EU laws in terms of the Single Market. Equally, we may not. BUT WE GET TO CHOOSE FROM NOW ON. We will not be able to hide from our mistakes. The government will not be able to smuggle laws past the people by "blaming Brussels".
This will have incalculable effects on our politics as it unfolds. Almost all good. Because we will be the free, liberal, sturdy, indomitable, self critical yet self reliant island nation we once were.
And these piddling REMANIANS go on about the nasty hit on their portfolios. Wankers.
Canada, Australia and Norway are all massive resource exporters. Something like 80% of Australia's exports are dug out of the ground. So, I'm not sure comparing those countries with the UK is necessarily fair.
Switzerland, on the other hand, is a much better example. Despite it's very expensive currency, it runs a surplus in the exports of physical products. Wages are high. Unemployment is non-existent. It has open borders, and yet essentially no illegal immigration. It's a lesson to us all.
It is nonetheless striking how ALL the advanced western economies OUTSIDE the EU (with the possible exception of New Zealand) are so much wealthier than the EU average, or even the average of UK, France, Italy and Germany.
Even Iceland has recovered: it's GDP per capita now exceeds that of the UK, France and Italy, again.
But all those countries have something in common: they are all massive commodity exporters!
If we had massive quantities of natural resources you could compare us, but you can't.
If you look at Australia on the indices of economic complexity, for example. It comes between The Lebanon and Greece.
Look: I've campaigned for Brexit on this board. I think fifteen years from now, only Mr Meeks will be thinking we made a mistake. But it is unrealistic to compare the lessons from commodity exporters (when we have very few) to the UK.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
For electronics, I wouldn't touch the likes of that with a bargepole.
In fact I'm becoming increasingly wary of Amazon. As more and more of "their" products are actually sold by third parties, anything with a decent price tag on it sets off the same kind of alarm bells I used to reserve for ebay.
I just ordered a Xiaomi phone. I'll let you know how it is
The economic impact of Leave (or Remain, had the vote gone the other way) will be marginal for most people.
precisely r Remain.
Depends on how much government income is affected by Brexit. The investment banker will be fine if it falls. The forklift truck driver maybe not.
forklift truck drivers dont give a toss about tax rates. they worry about their headline salaries which immigration has suppressed.
Although, of course, that has also driven the driving anyway.
we shouldnt do. per face continually higher rates when HMG subsidises Amazon to compete aganst him ?
Because we are in the EU single market, and Amazon choose to base themselves in Luxembourg and pay their corporate taxes there. They still pay lots of VAT, payroll and property taxes in the UK.
hmm
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
The article is misleading by referring only to corporation tax. The reason for the grant would be to create much needed jobs in an area of high unemployment - it will save the govt the cost of benefits for those people, as well as receiving payroll taxes from the workforce. A large employer also generates income around the local community, such as cafes, as well as the knock on effects of more money in the local economy, plus the construction jobs and money for the warehouse itself.
All of the above are taken into account when looking at schemes such as this.
the money comes from retail businesses which pay their taxes and which Amazon is driving out of business. Jobs in Swansea job losses in Methyr Tydfil.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Yes I bought some incredibly cheap jackets and hoodies from them, although they were no logo, I wouldn't buy snide names
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Yes I bought some incredibly cheap jackets and hoodies from them, although they were no logo, I wouldn't buy snide names
You have to order XXL if you're a M though
Lol: I've noticed that too! I ordered "Large", which for my 83kg, 180cm seems reasonable. (Perhaps even cautious.) But it turns out "Large" is marginal only for my size!
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Yes I bought some incredibly cheap jackets and hoodies from them, although they were no logo, I wouldn't buy snide names
You have to order XXL if you're a M though
As an aside, the cotton 'no brand' polo shirts I got are better than the Ralph Lauren ones. I agree that you should avoid snide names.
All things considered, surely the most remarkable thing about Theresa May's 68% net satisfaction lead over Corbyn is that it's not larger.
You and Mr Meeks and the other PB Remainers must be bitterly disappointed by the unemployment figures today. My sympathies
I'm very pleased by the figures. They are excellent, and a great send-off for Osborne. What a superb Chancellor he was.
The figures have absolutely zilch to tell us about Brexit, of course.
Why is it that any good figures "tell us zilch about Brexit" yet any bad figures however minuscule a move in the wrong direction proves beyond any doubt Remainers were absolutely correct in all respects.....
Only asking?
They don't. As I've said many times, we'll need to wait many months before we can provide a sensible assessment. At the moment, we are simply seeing the expected very short-term effects on sterling, the markets and business confidence surveys, but those don't tell us very much that we didn't already know.
Richard, word of advice, if I may.
You have a very superior tone which really gets up people's noses. Even mine, and I'm usually pretty relaxed.
"As I've said many times but you are clearly too stupid to understand" is how it comes across. It may not be your intention, but that's the impression it leaves
I don't think @SouthamObserver you are in Southam are you? Or I would have suggested I take a train to Warwick and you, @Alanbrooke and I go down the pub to continue the conversation as it seems to be just us...
Oh no...here's the Primrose Hill Mob...
depends what your up for Mr T.
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
Please could I come along? Someone would need to recommend somewhere to stay though (need not be at all posh, a reasonable pub or B&b will do for me).
Mr L for a gentleman of your great standing, I;ll put you up for the price of a pint :-)
Mr. Brooke, that is a very generous offer, but for the sake of Mrs. Brooke and any Brooklettes that might be at home I cannot accept. When I have a had a few (and I doubt our day/evening will be abstemious) I have a distressing tendency to snore (can be heard down the Street, I am told) and also to get up for a wee every hour. I could not therefore countenance inflicting myself of the Brooke household. A nearby, hotel, pub, B&B will be more than adequate.
Anyway the important thing is to set this up quickly. Not just because If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well. It were done quickly, but because too many PB meetings over the years have not happened because their intended participants have let, "I dare not wait upon I would, Like a poor cat i'th'adage"
You blokes work and so have commitments, so you just get on and set a date. I'll fit in. HurstLlama at Gmail dot net will find me.
fear not Mr L I reckon my snores will drown yours out !
That is jolly decent of you, Mr. Brooke. However, let us not get bogged down in the detail at this stage. Let us get a date set. Mr. Observer has I think suggested sometime in September. Ok, that will do for me, what date in September?
Once we have that we can drill down into the detail (I am entranced by your offer to show Mr. Topping the real world, and hope to sneak onto the tour).
Mr. Eagles, you may think a BINO would be fine and dandy [ahem], but it could cause serious ructions within the blues as well as providing a perfect platform for purple resurgence.
I don't want to vote UKIP at the next General Election. My constituency (currently, obviously it may get rejigged) is a blue-red marginal with a hefty slab of purple support too. Nonsense like staying in the customs union would not endear the Conservative Party to me.
Let us see how you cope without the tax revenues of the City of London and the financial services industry as a whole.
I'm sure the public will be fine with a few minor restrictions on freedom of movement.
For the greater good.
The City's already digested Brexit and is starting to look at opportunities. It's what we do.
The Brexit vote took place in a relatively benign economic environment so we are talking about growth forsworn rather than actual decline in the first instance. The downpayment on Brexit is 2% of GDP in the next couple of years and we will have to see what happens after that.
I think the economic effects will be patchy. It could be catastrophic for farmers, depending on what happens at the WTO. Bad for them but they only make up a small part of the overall economy. The City of London will be significantly hit, I suspect, but that's highly mobile work anyway. The rest will be marginal investment that drifts elsewhere.
The main problem with Brexit, as I see it, is that it will dominate government and business strategy for the next ten years. It will take years of grief, argument and gruelling effort to salvage as much as possible of the status quo and yet we will end up well short of where we were. That's just nuts.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY
Jesus. Why don't REMAINIACS get this?
Indeed. The only real argument for the EU is that it provides a space for Europeans to work together for the common good and national interest where no other institution exists to do this. We can talk about peace and brotherhood as much as we like but it is pointless if it doesn't mean more prosperity for ordinary people.
In the same way, the only real argument for leaving is that we get to be masters of our own ship. But choosing to work together with other nations for our own good is simply exercising our sovereignty.
So it does come down to the money and what is in Britain's interest, in the end. In a globalised world, and given we were already plugged in, voting to disconnect ourselves from it was us willingly, if unwittingly, choosing to damage our national interest in the name of soverignty. The next ten years will be dominated by that contradiction as we try to resolve it.
As an aside, has anyone other than me discovered AliExpress? You will *never* use Amazon again. You basically buy direct from Chinese factories. I just received three "Polo Ralph Lauren" polo shirts, which are indistinguishable from my genuine ones (I'm assuming they're not genuine...), and for which I paid $6.77 each. Including shipping.
Due to arcane and stupid international postage rules and Chinese governmet subsidies Chinese sellers can offer ludicrously low shipping prices on goods to the extent that it actually costs the Royal Mail more money than they are paid to deliver the items.
I can get individual CMOS chips (not bulk buys) delivered from China for barely more than first class postage of a UK letter. Completely nuts.
Mr. Eagles, you may think a BINO would be fine and dandy [ahem], but it could cause serious ructions within the blues as well as providing a perfect platform for purple resurgence.
I don't want to vote UKIP at the next General Election. My constituency (currently, obviously it may get rejigged) is a blue-red marginal with a hefty slab of purple support too. Nonsense like staying in the customs union would not endear the Conservative Party to me.
Let us see how you cope without the tax revenues of the City of London and the financial services industry as a whole.
I'm sure the public will be fine with a few minor restrictions on freedom of movement.
For the greater good.
The City's already digested Brexit and is starting to look at opportunities. It's what we do.
It's what the City has always done, what it does now and what it will continue to do in the future - which is why it is as successful as it is!
Comments
SO and I live in the poncy Brum commuter belt so lots of nice country pubs etc.
if you fancy a trip to Brum itself Ill stand you a very liquid lunch and a trip to the real world.
In any event most UK traffic is internal and shipped by british companies. so I'm lost where youre coming from in return:-)
So, you hate the poor and the rich (judging by posts I have seen over last week or so whilst I was away on holiday)
Who exactly do you not look down on?
Corbyn 285 Smith 53 means almost half not nominated. But Smith seems miles behind, again.
Edit: I realise the delicate state we're all in forces me to add: kidding!! Re. Brum...
But it's still a fabulous glass of wine
Switzerland, on the other hand, is a much better example. Despite it's very expensive currency, it runs a surplus in the exports of physical products. Wages are high. Unemployment is non-existent. It has open borders, and yet essentially no illegal immigration. It's a lesson to us all.
HMG gave a grant to Amazon to build a warehouse in Swansea. From memory it was more than what Amazon paid in UK taxes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10060229/Amazon-received-more-money-from-UK-grants-than-it-paid-in-corporation-tax.html
my daughter who lives in Ireland says Amazon has its EU HQ in Ireland for tax reasons, but doesnt have any distribution infrastructure in Ireland ( anecdote warning ) so you cant go online and order anything
all this so called activity is simply displacing the business that do pay tax VAT and employ people. Why should we support the dodgers instead of the law abiding retailers ?
Most of the really good knockoffs are actually the real factory doing an unofficial night shift.
Anyway the important thing is to set this up quickly. Not just because If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well. It were done quickly, but because too many PB meetings over the years have not happened because their intended participants have let, "I dare not wait upon I would, Like a poor cat i'th'adage"
You blokes work and so have commitments, so you just get on and set a date. I'll fit in. HurstLlama at Gmail dot net will find me.
If you want I can ask investor relations, and we can get a definitive answer
In fact I'm becoming increasingly wary of Amazon. As more and more of "their" products are actually sold by third parties, anything with a decent price tag on it sets off the same kind of alarm bells I used to reserve for ebay.
All of the above are taken into account when looking at schemes such as this.
However as a tech savvy shopoholic she still maintains she cant get a local delivery from Amazon as does her boyfirend who's Irish.
If she's wrong I just don't want her to know :-)
Look at Iceland: two thirds of exports are of commodities (http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/isl/)
Australia: even more (http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/)
If we had massive quantities of natural resources you could compare us, but you can't.
If you look at Australia on the indices of economic complexity, for example. It comes between The Lebanon and Greece.
Look: I've campaigned for Brexit on this board. I think fifteen years from now, only Mr Meeks will be thinking we made a mistake. But it is unrealistic to compare the lessons from commodity exporters (when we have very few) to the UK.
You have to order XXL if you're a M though
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
You have a very superior tone which really gets up people's noses. Even mine, and I'm usually pretty relaxed.
"As I've said many times but you are clearly too stupid to understand" is how it comes across. It may not be your intention, but that's the impression it leaves
Once we have that we can drill down into the detail (I am entranced by your offer to show Mr. Topping the real world, and hope to sneak onto the tour).
A date then, Gents.
In the same way, the only real argument for leaving is that we get to be masters of our own ship. But choosing to work together with other nations for our own good is simply exercising our sovereignty.
So it does come down to the money and what is in Britain's interest, in the end. In a globalised world, and given we were already plugged in, voting to disconnect ourselves from it was us willingly, if unwittingly, choosing to damage our national interest in the name of soverignty. The next ten years will be dominated by that contradiction as we try to resolve it.
I can get individual CMOS chips (not bulk buys) delivered from China for barely more than first class postage of a UK letter. Completely nuts.