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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A staggering 54% of Corbyn supporters in the YouGov members

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    I prefer winding up bigots.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen not to take up UK citizenship.

    vs

    3.03m non-EU workers in the UK, of which only 1.192m have decided not to take up UK citizenship.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    EU immigrants in the UK are EU citizens still in the EU. They needed the security of specifically UK Citizenship much less. We'll see how the relative take percentages go now that that's been blown up.
    There was lots of chat (specifically by Sos for DEFRA, I think Kate Hoey said it also) that the cut-off date for eligibility was June 23rd.

    Do we know if that is indeed the case?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Pong said:

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Yup

    The PB idiots have torn up the UK.

    "patriots" who couldn't give a damn about the union.
    If the UK was only held together by subservience to a federal continental political union, it was doomed anyway.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,078
    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    edited July 2016
    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    felix said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Update on my Swiss adventure, I've received an offer for a job there starting early next year (I have a six month notice period). It's substantially more money, but I'd be leaving London. Should I approach my current work place to match terms and seniority or should I just leave?

    Do it, sounds like a fantastic opportunity and great experience. Even if only for a couple of years, and then you move back, you won't regret it.

    Although Charles is right. Geneva competes with Riyadh for tedium.
    Nowhere is as bad as Riyadh for tedium, surely? tens of thousands of both locals and expats there turn up in Bahrain and Dubai every weekend as there's literally nothing to do at home.
    That sounds like Geneva to me, a few expats I know go to Nice for weekends from Geneva.
    Always founding it intriguing that we call ourselves "ex-pats" when we move somewhere else rather than "immigrants" which is what we are.

    Not aimed at you personally by the way, I would go for it and good luck if you do. Would be great experience
    People do it because they don't like to think they are the same as the immigrants the UK is full of. :) It is common here in Spain where I live to moan about UK immigrants while queuing up at the Spanish doctors for free treatment here in Spain!
    Confirmation: you live to moan.
    I've always thought the definition was more around whether you intend to be on assignment somewhere for a couple years, or whether you are moving somewhere to start a new life?

    A banker from Nigeria that moves to London for 3 years on a job transfer with Bank of Nigeria would be an expat, a banker from Nigeria who moves to London, gets married, has kids, becomes resident etc - would be an immigrant.

    Although it's true that people don't often like to think of themselves as immigrants. I imagine to all those spanish people the brits are immigrants just as much as a moroccan would be an immigrant there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,600
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    For humour value, these are the current annual interest rates available on two year government debt:

    USA			0.698
    Portugal 0.640
    United Kingdom 0.154
    Italy -0.077
    Spain -0.161
    Japan -0.332
    Ireland -0.445
    France -0.533
    Netherlands -0.577
    Germany -0.642
    Switzerland -1.137
    LOL! Who's buying those who doesn't have to hold Government debt?
    The Swiss cantons askedfor tax payments to be delayed for as long as possible iirc. They are obligated to hold federal debt which is an exercise in value destruction at the moment.
    Yes, so the only people buying these bonds are those who have no choice in the matter.

    I project I'm working on right now is offering 10% dividends quarterly to investors, but I guess we have more chance of messing up than the Swiss federal government! One lucky investor did so (in US$) a month ago. He's made a bonus 10% on his Sterling returns!
    You're working on a scheme providing a 46.41% AER, or have I misunderstood. Or 10% PA with 2.4% paid out quarterly ?
    46.41% AER. Small business flipping and shipping high end cars from places where they depreciate (Japan, ME) to places where they don't (UK, EU). We're probably being generous, especially as most of the cash is held in assets, but at the moment everyone is winning.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    Free speech doesn't mean consequence free speech.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    So they are.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    For humour value, these are the current annual interest rates available on two year government debt:

    USA			0.698
    Portugal 0.640
    United Kingdom 0.154
    Italy -0.077
    Spain -0.161
    Japan -0.332
    Ireland -0.445
    France -0.533
    Netherlands -0.577
    Germany -0.642
    Switzerland -1.137
    LOL! Who's buying those who doesn't have to hold Government debt?
    The Swiss cantons askedfor tax payments to be delayed for as long as possible iirc. They are obligated to hold federal debt which is an exercise in value destruction at the moment.
    Yes, so the only people buying these bonds are those who have no choice in the matter.

    I project I'm working on right now is offering 10% dividends quarterly to investors, but I guess we have more chance of messing up than the Swiss federal government! One lucky investor did so (in US$) a month ago. He's made a bonus 10% on his Sterling returns!
    You're working on a scheme providing a 46.41% AER, or have I misunderstood. Or 10% PA with 2.4% paid out quarterly ?
    46.41% AER. Small business flipping and shipping high end cars from places where they depreciate (Japan, ME) to places where they don't (UK, EU). We're probably being generous, especially as most of the cash is held in assets, but at the moment everyone is winning.
    If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016
    ToryJim said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Will have a different feel to DC for sure.
    Indeed, May is not renowned for a witty repartee. - Still worth watching however, just for the look on Harman’s face. :lol:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,920
    edited July 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Tim_B said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    For humour value, these are the current annual interest rates available on two year government debt:

    USA			0.698
    Portugal 0.640
    United Kingdom 0.154
    Italy -0.077
    Spain -0.161
    Japan -0.332
    Ireland -0.445
    France -0.533
    Netherlands -0.577
    Germany -0.642
    Switzerland -1.137
    LOL! Who's buying those who doesn't have to hold Government debt?
    The Swiss cantons askedfor tax payments to be delayed for as long as possible iirc. They are obligated to hold federal debt which is an exercise in value destruction at the moment.
    They could invest it all in Toblerone, then store it in some deep cave, preventing exports and cornering the market, then releasing it gradually at Christmas.
    And only sell the giant variety air-side to encourage tourism. Crushed Toblerone with vanilla ice cream is very nice. :yum:
    The problem here is that Hershey's make and sell licensed Cadbury and Toblerone badged product, among others. I need to go to the British Store in Duluth to get the real thing - with Toblerone at prices Swiss cantons would salivate at. I also go there to get my Maynards Wine Gums....
    Urgh. Hershey's is horrible. I tried it once and dumped the rest in the bin.
    Nothing brought home the cultural differences between the US and the UK more than seeing Warren Buffett earnestly describe See's Candies as the perfect Valentine gift.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen not to take up UK citizenship.

    vs

    3.03m non-EU workers in the UK, of which only 1.192m have decided not to take up UK citizenship.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    EU immigrants in the UK are EU citizens still in the EU. They needed the security of specifically UK Citizenship much less. We'll see how the relative take percentages go now that that's been blown up.
    There was lots of chat (specifically by Sos for DEFRA, I think Kate Hoey said it also) that the cut-off date for eligibility was June 23rd.

    Do we know if that is indeed the case?
    I don't think there has been a definitive statement yet. May is ( rightly IMHO ) saying it's for the negotiations. Though the Commons passed Labour's non binding resolution on guaranting exiting EU migrants residency. Davis has also said publiclly folk arriving between 23/6/16 and Brexit Day may not get ILTR if there is a surge to beat the deadline.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Every Northern Ireland proddy I know has dual citizenship. But they all live outside NI so may not be (probably aren't) typical. They also tell me off when I tell people I'm English. "No, you're not, you're British"!!!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,078
    Mr. Jim, I agree. I did say it should be upheld to the maximum degree. If clarity's needed, by that I mean things such as shouting 'fire' in a theatre or leaking official secrets and so forth are all out of line. Likewise, abusive stalking of crime victims to taunt them, or inciting looting are unacceptable (I was pleased to see those inciting looting in 2011 got harshly treated by the courts).
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Ah yes. Would love to watch but will be spending the whole afternoon in a Ukranian dentist's chair! :cry:
    My dentist was called Gordon Bennett.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,365
    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    Actually whilst May might not be as good as Dave at PMQs, it might be worse for Jez to be facing Mrs May.

    I got the feeling Dave always held back in his kickings of Corbyn to stop the accusations of being a Flashman bully.

    Mrs May won't have that issue.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    It's Twitter's house so it's their rules. He is free to set up a rival to Twitter where he and other like minded bellends can abuse each other to their hearts content. I'm sure it will be hugely popular and successful. Not.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,920

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.
    https://twitter.com/ianpaisleymp/status/746316224024481792
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Tim_B said:

    Moses_ said:

    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Thanks guys, much to mull over. I think I'm going to hand in my notice as soon as I receive the paperwork. I haven't fully decided to leave, but this is a huge opportunity as it is a massive jump in seniority and pay, I'm just not sure I want to move overseas where I'll be starting from scratch in terms of living there.

    Max, you're quite young, no kids, right? So go for it - the opportunity to work abroad is a life-enriching experience. You can come back to civilisation in a few years' time.

    And if you do move, don't spend your whole time hanging around with ex-pats. Make sure you learn French well (this is Geneva, right?).
    Zurich, so German. :/
    So no comedy clubs then?
    Working with Germans I can assure you they take their comedy very seriously.......
    I know a German barber called Herr Kutz......
    Q: What does a German bride get from her husband on her wedding day that is long and hard?
    A: A new last name.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    But a very large proportion of those people aren't planning on staying: Ana from Spain who's serving you in Starbucks is here because (a) London is exciting, and (b) the job prospects were shit when she graduated. Realistically, with the Spanish job market dramatically improving, unless she meets a nice English boy, she'll be heading back in twelve months when living three to a room in Camberwell loses its appeal.

    Now, you can say that this isn't immigration we wish to encourage (and that's fine), but it is also immigration that will naturally fall away. It will be harder to come to the UK, and most Anas will head back home.

    This is why I suspect that EU immigration is likely to turn negative in the next couple of years. It'll be harder to come here, and many people were going to go home anyway.
    But that's my point, non-EU citizens come here to settle down and EU citizens don't tend to. Agreed on the latter point about unemployed Mohammeds and Yusufs, but that is a legacy of the 70s.
    I guess my point is that a lot of the EU migration is simply a version of the working holiday visas we've always given Australians and New Zealanders. And I simply don't see much hostility towards it compared to immigration from Pakistan.

    And don't underestimate how much immigration has increased from these places. In 2004, there were around 280,000 people in the UK who were born in Pakistan. That rose to almost 550,000 a decade later. While the numbers are smaller, the number of people born in Nigeria also doubled.
    Yep. From a purely *selfish* perspective, being served my morning coffee on my daily commute by gorgeous, flirtatious blondes with fantastic figures in their 20s and early 30s from Eastern Europe, rather than the resentful surly old British battleaxes in their 60s we used to get, is about as good as immigration gets.

    The quality of Eastern European women is simply jaw-dropping.

    But, immigration is much more complicated in its effects than that and the total numbers, settlement patterns and densities, pressures on public services and issues of cultural entropy are significant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,600

    Sandpit said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Ah yes. Would love to watch but will be spending the whole afternoon in a Ukranian dentist's chair! :cry:
    Poor you, I suspect it'll be a tractor stats fest, so you won't be missing much.

    I don't think Mrs May has David Cameron's flair and polish for PMQs.
    Might catch the 'highlights' later before deciding whether to watch the whole thing.

    Not been to the big chair in too long, and being dragged along by wife/translator. He has all European equipment and charges $25 an hour, so if there's a time to go it's probably now!
    Back on here later, hopefully :o
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    Just like PB, Twitter is allowed to make its own judgement of who it wants on the platform. It's not a public good.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Actually whilst May might not be as good as Dave at PMQs, it might be worse for Jez to be facing Mrs May.

    I got the feeling Dave always held back in his kickings of Corbyn to stop the accusations of being a Flashman bully.

    Mrs May won't have that issue.

    You never know she might surprise.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    ToryJim said:

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    Free speech doesn't mean consequence free speech.
    Also, Twitter is a private company - so it isn't actually obligated to allow free speech (or, as an American company, is there actually a legal obligation on that?).

    What Twitter needs to do is be clear on its rules. When you create an account you agree to the terms and conditions - if the rules on appropriate behavior are clear, and within the rule of the law, then there can be no cries of outrage if you break them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,600
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    Not sure that anything Twitter do is going to make it profitable any time soon!!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    If you are being serious then you will know the harm reputational damage can do to the shareprice.

    If you are not being serious: LOL
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717
    edited July 2016

    HYUFD said:

    George W Bush has reportedly told a private meeting of donors he fears 'he may be the last Republican president. ' I expect Tony Blair now fears he may be the last Labour PM, as Ken Clarke said last night the party membership has been taken over by 60s style leftwing radicals who are only willing to bid for power on their own terms. Smith v Corbyn will be a rerun of Kinnock v Benn in 1988, only this time the Bennite is favourite

    I know we'd all like to repress it, but Gordon Brown was also a Labour Prime Minister, after Blair
    Yes, I suppose I should have said the last elected Labour PM. The ironic thing now is that George W Bush would almost certainly vote for Hillary over Trump and Blair for May over Corbyn, that is how far their respective parties have now moved away from them
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    I believe Alanbrooke of this parish - a protestant from NI - has an Irish passport.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    As I said, "and vice-versa". Ultimatelty, Twitter is a commercial organisation. If it makes the wrong decisions, it will wither and die. The free market will sort this one out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    It was encouraging the racist trolling of Leslie Jones.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,655
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Ah yes. Would love to watch but will be spending the whole afternoon in a Ukranian dentist's chair! :cry:
    Poor you, I suspect it'll be a tractor stats fest, so you won't be missing much.

    I don't think Mrs May has David Cameron's flair and polish for PMQs.
    Might catch the 'highlights' later before deciding whether to watch the whole thing.

    Not been to the big chair in too long, and being dragged along by wife/translator. He has all European equipment and charges $25 an hour, so if there's a time to go it's probably now!
    Back on here later, hopefully :o
    Blimey, that is a cheap dentist.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257

    rcs1000 said:

    Edit to add: most people I know are more upset about Mohammed from Bangladesh who doesn't have a job (but does have a UK passport) than Ana from Madrid.

    <SeanT mode>

    Especially if Ana is HOT!

    </SeanT mode>
    Do you think we could get away with fashioning such criteria into our new points based system?

    Richard Branson seems to get away with it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,600
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    For humour value, these are the current annual interest rates available on two year government debt:

    USA			0.698
    Portugal 0.640
    United Kingdom 0.154
    Italy -0.077
    Spain -0.161
    Japan -0.332
    Ireland -0.445
    France -0.533
    Netherlands -0.577
    Germany -0.642
    Switzerland -1.137
    LOL! Who's buying those who doesn't have to hold Government debt?
    The Swiss cantons askedfor tax payments to be delayed for as long as possible iirc. They are obligated to hold federal debt which is an exercise in value destruction at the moment.
    Yes, so the only people buying these bonds are those who have no choice in the matter.

    I project I'm working on right now is offering 10% dividends quarterly to investors, but I guess we have more chance of messing up than the Swiss federal government! One lucky investor did so (in US$) a month ago. He's made a bonus 10% on his Sterling returns!
    You're working on a scheme providing a 46.41% AER, or have I misunderstood. Or 10% PA with 2.4% paid out quarterly ?
    46.41% AER. Small business flipping and shipping high end cars from places where they depreciate (Japan, ME) to places where they don't (UK, EU). We're probably being generous, especially as most of the cash is held in assets, but at the moment everyone is winning.
    If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
    There is an element of risk which is somewhat higher than those who choose to invest in government bonds, that would be true. The recent Sterling devaluation has also not helped things, but it's still profitable at the small scale
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited July 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    But a very large proportion of those people aren't planning on staying: Ana from Spain who's serving you in Starbucks is here because (a) London is exciting, and (b) the job prospects were shit when she graduated. Realistically, with the Spanish job market dramatically improving, unless she meets a nice English boy, she'll be heading back in twelve months when living three to a room in Camberwell loses its appeal.

    Now, you can say that this isn't immigration we wish to encourage (and that's fine), but it is also immigration that will naturally fall away. It will be harder to come to the UK, and most Anas will head back home.

    This is why I suspect that EU immigration is likely to turn negative in the next couple of years. It'll be harder to come here, and many people were going to go home anyway.
    But that's my point, non-EU citizens come here to settle down and EU citizens don't tend to. Agreed on the latter point about unemployed Mohammeds and Yusufs, but that is a legacy of the 70s.
    I guess my point is that a lot of the EU migration is simply a version of the working holiday visas we've always given Australians and New Zealanders. And I simply don't see much hostility towards it compared to immigration from Pakistan.

    And don't underestimate how much immigration has increased from these places. In 2004, there were around 280,000 people in the UK who were born in Pakistan. That rose to almost 550,000 a decade later. While the numbers are smaller, the number of people born in Nigeria also doubled.
    ...issues of cultural entropy are significant.
    LOL I assume you are buying said coffee from a US-style coffee shop, the likes of which have invaded our high streets, rather than your local greasy spoon. Or Lyons Tea House.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257

    I believe Alanbrooke of this parish - a protestant from NI - has an Irish passport.

    Middle class Protestants will be different to the DUP WWC Protestants.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    Just like PB, Twitter is allowed to make its own judgement of who it wants on the platform. It's not a public good.
    Wasn't the some debate a number of years ago, in the US ISP context about being a "common carrier" and that if you edited content you assumed responsibility for it, resulting in ISPs taking the view that they pushed bytes around and what they contained wasn't their problem.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    ToryJim said:

    Actually whilst May might not be as good as Dave at PMQs, it might be worse for Jez to be facing Mrs May.

    I got the feeling Dave always held back in his kickings of Corbyn to stop the accusations of being a Flashman bully.

    Mrs May won't have that issue.

    You never know she might surprise.
    I know, I meant it would be unfair for people to compare her to David Cameron.

    He had nearly five years of practise before Cameron did his first PMQs as PM.
  • KeithJennerKeithJenner Posts: 99
    edited July 2016
    The headline of this article really says a lot about the situation Labour are in.

    If someone had been away from UK politics for a few years, and came here not knowing anything about Corbyn or Labour's current problems, they would assume that the staggering thing about the poll would be that only 54% of his supporters think he will lead them to victory.

    The fact that this statistic is being discussed as being surprisingly high is quite staggering in itself really.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Tim_B said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    For humour value, these are the current annual interest rates available on two year government debt:

    USA			0.698
    Portugal 0.640
    United Kingdom 0.154
    Italy -0.077
    Spain -0.161
    Japan -0.332
    Ireland -0.445
    France -0.533
    Netherlands -0.577
    Germany -0.642
    Switzerland -1.137
    LOL! Who's buying those who doesn't have to hold Government debt?
    The Swiss cantons askedfor tax payments to be delayed for as long as possible iirc. They are obligated to hold federal debt which is an exercise in value destruction at the moment.
    They could invest it all in Toblerone, then store it in some deep cave, preventing exports and cornering the market, then releasing it gradually at Christmas.
    And only sell the giant variety air-side to encourage tourism. Crushed Toblerone with vanilla ice cream is very nice. :yum:
    The problem here is that Hershey's make and sell licensed Cadbury and Toblerone badged product, among others. I need to go to the British Store in Duluth to get the real thing - with Toblerone at prices Swiss cantons would salivate at. I also go there to get my Maynards Wine Gums....
    Urgh. Hershey's is horrible. I tried it once and dumped the rest in the bin.
    Nothing brought home the cultural differences between the US and the UK more than seeing Warren Buffett earnestly describe See's Candies as the perfect Valentine gift.
    There's so many things I could pick. So much stuff looks about the same but tastes completely different.

    I still recall my disappointment at the French version of Smarties as a kid. They were horrible. Back in the 70s I'd eat almost any confectionery - not them.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783

    I believe Alanbrooke of this parish - a protestant from NI - has an Irish passport.

    Middle class Protestants will be different to the DUP WWC Protestants.

    No doubt. But they're all Protestants and Unionists.

  • Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,078
    edited July 2016
    Mr. Eagles, practice*. Takes an S when used as a verb, but a C as a noun (as per licence/license).

    Edited extra bit: an astute observation, Mr. Jenner, and welcome to pb.com.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    As I said, "and vice-versa". Ultimatelty, Twitter is a commercial organisation. If it makes the wrong decisions, it will wither and die. The free market will sort this one out.
    I think it already has, look at the YoY, it's down by over half.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    Given the very close commercial, cultural and social relationships between the UK and Ireland (one might even say interdependence from the RoI's perspective), if the UK does successfully put in place new arrangements between itself and the countries of the EU, I'd be more inclined to think the RoI Government may come under pressure to join us...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Moses_ said:

    Tim_B said:

    Moses_ said:

    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Thanks guys, much to mull over. I think I'm going to hand in my notice as soon as I receive the paperwork. I haven't fully decided to leave, but this is a huge opportunity as it is a massive jump in seniority and pay, I'm just not sure I want to move overseas where I'll be starting from scratch in terms of living there.

    Max, you're quite young, no kids, right? So go for it - the opportunity to work abroad is a life-enriching experience. You can come back to civilisation in a few years' time.

    And if you do move, don't spend your whole time hanging around with ex-pats. Make sure you learn French well (this is Geneva, right?).
    Zurich, so German. :/
    So no comedy clubs then?
    Working with Germans I can assure you they take their comedy very seriously.......
    I know a German barber called Herr Kutz......
    Q: What does a German bride get from her husband on her wedding day that is long and hard?
    A: A new last name.
    Probably the funniest 'making fun of the Germans' movie I know is Billy Wilder's comedy "One, Two, Three", starring James Cagney as a Coca Cola executive based in Berlin.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    On the subject of duel citizenship it would be great if UK citizens on 23/6/16 could opt to maintain EU citizenship if they wished. It would be a magnanimous gesture if the government out it into the negotiations. I can see why the EU would agree to it though.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    btw is chrisyoung trying to tell us something here?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,600
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Ah yes. Would love to watch but will be spending the whole afternoon in a Ukranian dentist's chair! :cry:
    Poor you, I suspect it'll be a tractor stats fest, so you won't be missing much.

    I don't think Mrs May has David Cameron's flair and polish for PMQs.
    Might catch the 'highlights' later before deciding whether to watch the whole thing.

    Not been to the big chair in too long, and being dragged along by wife/translator. He has all European equipment and charges $25 an hour, so if there's a time to go it's probably now!
    Back on here later, hopefully :o
    Blimey, that is a cheap dentist.
    Quite. Cost of living here is shocking low due to currency moves in the last 3 or 4 years. Beer 30p a pint in a bar, 50p in a club or hotel. Vodka £1 a bottle. One friend of the missus is a nurse, she is paid $50 a month, another is a teacher and earns about the same. 2 bed apartment in the city $40k. Gives you an interesting perspective on life that's for sure.

    Right, off to the dentist!
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    Not sure that anything Twitter do is going to make it profitable any time soon!!
    I reckon every 20th tweet I see in my timeline is an advert. There's so many of them - it's become a blur.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,365
    edited July 2016

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    It was encouraging the racist trolling of Leslie Jones.
    Thanks, but I don't believe such claims until they have been verified.

    I have just seen too many fake liberal-left claims - never mind demonisation operations such as the Block Bot and the assault on Prof Tim Hunt.

    I'm happy to accept that it may well be true. However, do you have a link with details?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Look out for President Corbyn if Owen Smith triumphs.... Ok it's just party president but still.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36842339
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Theresa May's first PMQs today.

    Should be interesting.

    Ah yes. Would love to watch but will be spending the whole afternoon in a Ukranian dentist's chair! :cry:
    Poor you, I suspect it'll be a tractor stats fest, so you won't be missing much.

    I don't think Mrs May has David Cameron's flair and polish for PMQs.
    Might catch the 'highlights' later before deciding whether to watch the whole thing.

    Not been to the big chair in too long, and being dragged along by wife/translator. He has all European equipment and charges $25 an hour, so if there's a time to go it's probably now!
    Back on here later, hopefully :o
    Blimey, that is a cheap dentist.
    Now, yes. But not when his practice was in Harley Street before the lawsuit ;)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    Given the very close commercial, cultural and social relationships between the UK and Ireland (one might even say interdependence from the RoI's perspective), if the UK does successfully put in place new arrangements between itself and the countries of the EU, I'd be more inclined to think the RoI Government may come under pressure to join us...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    As I said, "and vice-versa". Ultimatelty, Twitter is a commercial organisation. If it makes the wrong decisions, it will wither and die. The free market will sort this one out.
    I think it already has, look at the YoY, it's down by over half.
    I used to work with the CFO.

    We're not an investor.

    That's not a coincidence.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    But a very large proportion of those people aren't planning on staying: Ana from Spain who's serving you in Starbucks is here because (a) London is exciting, and (b) the job prospects were shit when she graduated. Realistically, with the Spanish job market dramatically improving, unless she meets a nice English boy, she'll be heading back in twelve months when living three to a room in Camberwell loses its appeal.

    Now, you can say that this isn't immigration we wish to encourage (and that's fine), but it is also immigration that will naturally fall away. It will be harder to come to the UK, and most Anas will head back home.

    This is why I suspect that EU immigration is likely to turn negative in the next couple of years. It'll be harder to come here, and many people were going to go home anyway.
    But that's my point, non-EU citizens come here to settle down and EU citizens don't tend to. Agreed on the latter point about unemployed Mohammeds and Yusufs, but that is a legacy of the 70s.
    I guess my point is that a lot of the EU migration is simply a version of the working holiday visas we've always given Australians and New Zealanders. And I simply don't see much hostility towards it compared to immigration from Pakistan.

    And don't underestimate how much immigration has increased from these places. In 2004, there were around 280,000 people in the UK who were born in Pakistan. That rose to almost 550,000 a decade later. While the numbers are smaller, the number of people born in Nigeria also doubled.
    ...issues of cultural entropy are significant.
    LOL I assume you are buying said coffee from a US-style coffee shop, the likes of which have invaded our high streets, rather than your local greasy spoon. Or Lyons Tea House.
    Everywhere I go in London and the South East: it's a young Eastern European woman.

    Sometimes one wishes one was single..
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    It was encouraging the racist trolling of Leslie Jones.
    Thanks, but I don't believe such claims until they have been verified.

    I have just seen too many fake liberal-left claims - never mind demonisation operations such as the Block Bot and the assault on Prof Tim Hunt.

    I'm happy to accept that it may well be true. However, do you have a link with details?
    It was actually on BBC World Service earlier this morning.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    It was encouraging the racist trolling of Leslie Jones.
    Seems like a grey area to me. I'm all for him being banned, but Twitter probably needs to accept that free speech doesn't trump everything else, and they need a proper code of conduct in place for all users.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    Given the very close commercial, cultural and social relationships between the UK and Ireland (one might even say interdependence from the RoI's perspective), if the UK does successfully put in place new arrangements between itself and the countries of the EU, I'd be more inclined to think the RoI Government may come under pressure to join us...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.
    Indeed, Denmark and Sweden and maybe Austria, France and the Netherlands are more likely to leave the EU than Ireland
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    edited July 2016

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
    I believe it was to do with the creation of a spoof account in her name that spewed some anti white rhetoric, that led him encouraging him followers to abuse her in similar terms.

    Unfortunately I'm at work, and our internet has crashed and gone into safe mode, so I can't google those terms without setting off the firewall and being forced to have a chat with the HR Director
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    On the subject of duel citizenship it would be great if UK citizens on 23/6/16 could opt to maintain EU citizenship if they wished. It would be a magnanimous gesture if the government out it into the negotiations. I can see why the EU would agree to it though.

    There is no such thing as "EU citizenship" though, only "citizenship of a state in the EU".
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Thanks guys, much to mull over. I think I'm going to hand in my notice as soon as I receive the paperwork. I haven't fully decided to leave, but this is a huge opportunity as it is a massive jump in seniority and pay, I'm just not sure I want to move overseas where I'll be starting from scratch in terms of living there.

    Max, you're quite young, no kids, right? So go for it - the opportunity to work abroad is a life-enriching experience. You can come back to civilisation in a few years' time.

    And if you do move, don't spend your whole time hanging around with ex-pats. Make sure you learn French well (this is Geneva, right?).
    Zurich, so German. :/
    Quite agree, living abroad is the most life-enhancing experience. Even if you don't like it after a few years, you at least have a more positive view of the UK to return too and you realise why you like the country of your birth. Try it.
    Having lived in Germany for 10 years, I can only agree with that. Living and working abroad for an extended period is guaranteed to give you a much wider perspective on life. I'd strongly recommend it to anyone.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Watching a TV show on my dvr, and up pops a commercial for "Killer Women with Piers Morgan". I can stop worrying now - he's OK.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    HYUFD said:

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    Given the very close commercial, cultural and social relationships between the UK and Ireland (one might even say interdependence from the RoI's perspective), if the UK does successfully put in place new arrangements between itself and the countries of the EU, I'd be more inclined to think the RoI Government may come under pressure to join us...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.
    Indeed, Denmark and Sweden and maybe Austria, France and the Netherlands are more likely to leave the EU than Ireland
    I can't see the Netherlands or Denmark leaving the EU, because they are really just part of Greater Germany, and their economies are so integrated with it.

    If I were to rank in order the most likely exits from the EU, I think I'd put Italy first. With Sweden most likely behind it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    edited July 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    I'm not sure that making Twitter a safe space is going to make it profitable. Quite the opposite in fact.
    As I said, "and vice-versa". Ultimatelty, Twitter is a commercial organisation. If it makes the wrong decisions, it will wither and die. The free market will sort this one out.
    I think it already has, look at the YoY, it's down by over half.
    I used to work with the CFO.

    We're not an investor.

    That's not a coincidence.
    Yes, a slight declaration, I've shorted Twitter for a while. It's been a big winner. Every time I think they've bottomed out it gets worse.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    DanSmith said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    That Guardian report is notably light on details of what Milo is alleged to have actually done.

    I'm suspending judgement until I see the details.
    It was encouraging the racist trolling of Leslie Jones.
    Seems like a grey area to me. I'm all for him being banned, but Twitter probably needs to accept that free speech doesn't trump everything else, and they need a proper code of conduct in place for all users.
    I think it was to do with the fake twitter account that has caused all of this.

    I wonder if Twitter has found out Nero was behind it.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    On the subject of duel citizenship it would be great if UK citizens on 23/6/16 could opt to maintain EU citizenship if they wished. It would be a magnanimous gesture if the government out it into the negotiations. I can see why the EU would agree to it though.

    If you want that so much, there are 27 other EU countries you can move to.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
    I believe it was to do with the creation of a spoof account in her name that spewed some anti white rhetoric, that led him encouraging him followers to abuse her in similar terms.

    Unfortunately I'm at work, and our internet has crashed and gone into safe mode, so I can't google those terms without setting off the firewall and being forced to have a chat with the HR Director
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36842710

    Say hello to HR for me.....
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Pauly said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
    Nero isn't my cup of tea at all and never followed him, however Twitter is reinforcing its credentials as a Left wing echo chamber. I keep seeing fairly average rightist tweeters being banned/mobbed.

    It's a peculiar culture.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    Re next to go, this chart explains why I think Italy is the one to worry about:

    The Euro is right for my country (or somesuch):
    image
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740

    On the subject of duel citizenship it would be great if UK citizens on 23/6/16 could opt to maintain EU citizenship if they wished. It would be a magnanimous gesture if the government out it into the negotiations. I can see why the EU would agree to it though.

    There is no such thing as "EU citizenship" though, only "citizenship of a state in the EU".
    EU Citizenship was introduced by Maastricht. Though as you rightly say all EU citizens are citizens of EU member states. So my suggestion would create a new category. Which is why I can't see it happening.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    rcs1000 said:

    Re next to go, this chart explains why I think Italy is the one to worry about:

    The Euro is right for my country (or somesuch):
    image

    It's net, and excludes DKs. The UK is something like 10% in Favour, 70% against.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Pauly said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
    Pauly said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
    Kicking out trolls like this guy ensures greater participation. Personally, I would prefer people like this to be punished by the law (in whatever country they are in) but the law is too soft and tracking them down and exacting justice is, sadly, frowned upon.
  • spoilthedogspoilthedog Posts: 19
    edited July 2016

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
    I beleive it was to do with the creation of a spoof account in her name that spewed some anti white rhetoric, that led him encouraging him followers to abuse her in similar terms.

    Unfortunately I'm at work, and our internet has crashed and gone into safe mode, so I can't google those terms without setting off the firewall and being forced to have a chat with the HR Director
    As far as I know Milo's things are 'safe space' culture in universities, intersectionality, free speech and Islamism (as a gay man). He works to shock but from what Ive seen he's never come across as racist. Twitter banning him (given the things they don't ban) should give him and his admirers a lot of material though.
  • On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    I thought that before Ian Paisley Jr (I think it was him) advised otherwise.

    I think we are seeing a split between 'Tory' Church of Ireland middle classes and working class nonconformists. This is currently most obvious in DUP/UUP split but it must not be forgotton that in the Irish rebellion of 1798 (which led to abolition of Irish Parliament and direct rule) the leader was a nonconformist protestant who made common cause with the Catholics against the C of E establishment.

    DUP types are protestant Irish Nationalists who call themselves British. Slowly the penny is dropping that they as protestant Irish Nationalists have far more in common with catholic Irish Nationalists than the British establiahment.

    Attempts to force gay marriage and abortion on Northern Ireland have brought this home though (catholics in NI are more conservative than in RoI too), Brexit is a red herring in this regard.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
    I believe it was to do with the creation of a spoof account in her name that spewed some anti white rhetoric, that led him encouraging him followers to abuse her in similar terms.

    Unfortunately I'm at work, and our internet has crashed and gone into safe mode, so I can't google those terms without setting off the firewall and being forced to have a chat with the HR Director
    This might be the reason

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/07/20/bt-down-broadband-service-suffers-major-outage-across-the-uk/
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Tim_B said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Update on my Swiss adventure, I've received an offer for a job there starting early next year (I have a six month notice period). It's substantially more money, but I'd be leaving London. Should I approach my current work place to match terms and seniority or should I just leave?

    Do it, sounds like a fantastic opportunity and great experience. Even if only for a couple of years, and then you move back, you won't regret it.

    Although Charles is right. Geneva competes with Riyadh for tedium.
    Nowhere is as bad as Riyadh for tedium, surely? tens of thousands of both locals and expats there turn up in Bahrain and Dubai every weekend as there's literally nothing to do at home.
    That sounds like Geneva to me, a few expats I know go to Nice for weekends from Geneva.
    Always founding it intriguing that we call ourselves "ex-pats" when we move somewhere else rather than "immigrants" which is what we are.

    Not aimed at you personally by the way, I would go for it and good luck if you do. Would be great experience
    To me an ex-pat is someone who goes to work abroad, meaning to eventually return. An emigrant - like me - is someone who leaves permanently and does not plan to return.
    So all those thousands of OAPs in Spain,France etc are all planning to return? I hope someone alerts the NHS!

    I also know a number of Poles who plan to return home before too long. Can we call them Polish ex-patas then?
  • Thrak said:

    Pauly said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
    Pauly said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pauly said:

    He's such a loathsome individual

    Milo Yiannopoulos, rightwing writer, permanently banned from Twitter

    Breitbart writer, who tweeted as @Nero, handed permanent suspension after claims he fanned flames of social media attack on Ghostbusters’ Leslie Jones

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter?CMP=twt_gu

    Silencing bigots does nothing to stop bigotry, if anything it just stops them being challenged. Social media shouldn't be banning the most vilest of figures.
    Twitter should be working for the benefit of its shareholders. If silencing @Nero increases usage of its platform, it should do so, and vice-versa.
    Clearly silencing noone is the best option for profitability, having political arguments and outrage will generate more tweets. It's not like kicking out nero allows someone else to take his finite spot...
    Kicking out trolls like this guy ensures greater participation. Personally, I would prefer people like this to be punished by the law (in whatever country they are in) but the law is too soft and tracking them down and exacting justice is, sadly, frowned upon.
    It is fairly obvious that if a twitter user is causing distress to other twitter users resulting in them leaving twitter it is in twitters commercial interest to ban them. Nothing to do with freedom of speech.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,389
    wasd said:

    TBH; I've never actually been sure what union with Northern Ireland offers me.

    Ask not etc, etc.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    May surrenders our scheduled presidency:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36841066
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    HYUFD said:

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    Given the very close commercial, cultural and social relationships between the UK and Ireland (one might even say interdependence from the RoI's perspective), if the UK does successfully put in place new arrangements between itself and the countries of the EU, I'd be more inclined to think the RoI Government may come under pressure to join us...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.
    Indeed, Denmark and Sweden and maybe Austria, France and the Netherlands are more likely to leave the EU than Ireland
    There are lots of Protestants in NI who have a spare Irish passport now, because it can be convenient. It hasn't eroded their self-identification one jot.

    If anything, it is the reverse that is happening, ie Catholic self-identification as Irish is declining. Have a look at the excellent wiki article on how NI people answered identity questions at the last census.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Northern_Ireland

    In the east of NI, in several districts, more Catholics self-describe as British than Irish. And an increasingly large share of respondents self-describe as 'Northern Irish' and many of these are Catholics too.

    A border poll would be won by the 'UK' side by 2:1, possibly even more.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723
    Tim_B said:

    malcolmg said:

    BudG said:

    Mr. G, interesting piece, but he's not the Messiah.

    I know that, you know that Mr Dancer. What we know is irrelevant when it comes to understanding why he has the support he does and why it is so unshakeable.
    Could it just be that unlike you some people like him and his ideas. Nothing as pompous as someone who thinks they are superior and know better than everyone else. People have differing views , they are not all right wingnuts.
    Thus showing, perhaps, that you know better than 'right wingnuts'? ;)
    I was not pontificating , merely speculating that different people have different views but som eposters on here actually believe that only they know what is right and proper, ie their heads are imbedded in their own orifice. It takes all sorts to make a world and teh intolerance and sarcasm shown by previous poster is normal on here from Tory frothers.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    On Ireland: if it becomes very common for the protestant community to take dual UK/Irish nationality in order to have access to EU citizenship, then in the long term that could well lead to a change of self-identity and eventual reunification.

    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.
    I thought that before Ian Paisley Jr (I think it was him) advised otherwise.

    I think we are seeing a split between 'Tory' Church of Ireland middle classes and working class nonconformists. This is currently most obvious in DUP/UUP split but it must not be forgotton that in the Irish rebellion of 1798 (which led to abolition of Irish Parliament and direct rule) the leader was a nonconformist protestant who made common cause with the Catholics against the C of E establishment.

    DUP types are protestant Irish Nationalists who call themselves British. Slowly the penny is dropping that they as protestant Irish Nationalists have far more in common with catholic Irish Nationalists than the British establiahment.

    Attempts to force gay marriage and abortion on Northern Ireland have brought this home though (catholics in NI are more conservative than in RoI too), Brexit is a red herring in this regard.
    Rubbish
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    @MaxPB - Living and working abroad was one of the most exciting, eye-opening and rewarding episodes of my life. I cannot recommend it enough. Do it.

    What's more, as an employer I would be very pissed off if an employee used a job offer as a bargaining chip. It's not a negotiation I'd ever get into. If they want you enough they'll make an offer to keep you anyway.

    I've never ever made a counter offer to a restless employee. It's counter-productive as it impacts others in your team. Feel good that you've helped bring someone on, give them a firm handshake and wave your hanky as they leave.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
    Also looks like it puts off a rate cut.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
    They will be down. But is that meaningful? In part these surveys are like opinion polls and have sent misleading signals in the recent past - 1998, 2001-02 for example.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
    Also looks like it puts off a rate cut.
    I personally feel ultra-low interest rates are counter-productive to economic growth. I don't think there is really any rationale for bringing interest rates down below - say - 1.5%.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking at the employment statistics and this was telling:

    There are 2.21m EU workers in the UK, of those 2.146m have chosen.

    I think that's why there is a lot of anger at EU immigration that there is less of towards non-EU immigration, again I'm not saying that people look at the ONS figures and then say, oh look at all those EU immigrants refusing to take up UK nationality, it's more like something people feel. Non-EU citizens are here for the long haul, they want to make a life for themselves here and become British, the same isn't true for EU citizens (and I'm sure our lot in Europe!).

    But a very large proportion of those people aren't planning on staying: Ana from Spain who's serving you in Starbucks is here because (a) London is exciting, and (b) the job prospects were shit when she graduated. Realistically, with the Spanish job market dramatically improving, unless she meets a nice English boy, she'll be heading back in twelve months when living three to a room in Camberwell loses its appeal.

    Now, you can say that this isn't immigration we wish to encourage (and that's fine), but it is also immigration that will naturally fall away. It will be harder to come to the UK, and most Anas will head back home.

    This is why I suspect that EU immigration is likely to turn negative in the next couple of years. It'll be harder to come here, and many people were going to go home anyway.
    But that's my point, non-EU citizens come here to settle down and EU citizens don't tend to. Agreed on the latter point about unemployed Mohammeds and Yusufs, but that is a legacy of the 70s.
    .
    ...issues of cultural entropy are significant.
    LOL I assume you are buying said coffee from a US-style coffee shop, the likes of which have invaded our high streets, rather than your local greasy spoon. Or Lyons Tea House.
    Everywhere I go in London and the South East: it's a young Eastern European woman.

    Sometimes one wishes one was single..
    Outside of some towns where local services have just been overwhelmed, I don't think people are much bothered by Eastern European immigration, whether temporary or permanent (I expect that Polish people having children here will be permanent migrants.)

    What people dislike is (a) having no control at all on who settles here and (b) some groups from outside the EU acquiring citizenship of an EU member State and then being free to move here.

    WRT the attractiveness of Eastern European young women, a lot of their British counterparts are feminist shrykes, which makes the former more desirable by comparison.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    @MaxPB

    I'd move - it sounds like you've already made up your mind to leave, which means you probably won't be happy if you stay, even if you get a raise and more responsibility.

    However, you might be able to get even more out of your new employer [e.g. more relocation money?] if you can persuade your current one to match terms.

    I moved at 26, though Stoke-on-Trent isn't even as alluring as Zurich. Never regretted it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    Blue_rog said:

    Mr. Eagles, may watch PMQs, for once (well, twice, saw Cameron's last one).

    On the banned Twitter chap, not following it too closely, but I do think freedom of speech should be upheld to the maximum degree.

    On a broader note, Twitter still needs to find its place. It can't be a free speech platform *and* a safe space.

    I work on the principle that Nero crossed the line from trolling to incitement, not only just on this occasion, so Twitter probably were right.
    What did he say, do you know? Considering the torrents of abuse hurtling round twitter every day, not to mention regular incitements to violence and hatred, it must have been something uniquely terrible.
    I believe it was to do with the creation of a spoof account in her name that spewed some anti white rhetoric, that led him encouraging him followers to abuse her in similar terms.

    Unfortunately I'm at work, and our internet has crashed and gone into safe mode, so I can't google those terms without setting off the firewall and being forced to have a chat with the HR Director
    This might be the reason

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/07/20/bt-down-broadband-service-suffers-major-outage-across-the-uk/
    Thanks.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
    Also looks like it puts off a rate cut.
    I personally feel ultra-low interest rates are counter-productive to economic growth. I don't think there is really any rationale for bringing interest rates down below - say - 1.5%.
    I would be more worried if there weren't jitters in the markets post-referendum. Any sound business is going to have to re-assess in light of new market conditions, regardless of the medium term prospects.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    runnymede said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    Bank of England sees no clear evidence of sharp Brexit hit yet

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-boe-idUKKCN1000SP?il=0

    That is good news. The interesting question will be what the preliminary Markit PMIs look like on Friday.

    I'd also keep an eye on housing market volumes over the next couple of months.
    They will be down. But is that meaningful? In part these surveys are like opinion polls and have sent misleading signals in the recent past - 1998, 2001-02 for example.
    Isn't that a case of 'it depends'? :)

    We can't choose to pay attention to only those signals which point in our preferred direction.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Can anyone explain why better than expected employment data strengthens the pound (rate cut less likely?)
This discussion has been closed.