May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.
Not if they want any access to our waters for their fishing boats.
Didn't the Brexiteers promise that Scotland will be given control of its fishing waters? I wonder how inflexible Holyrood will want to be towards the EU?
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.
The only thing you fear more than Brexit being a failure is Brexit being a success.
Cry me a river, you won, now grow up and own it and make it work. Don't vote Brexit then cringe about the costs, or about nations looking after their own interests.
That is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick with your working class voters NickP. But since the Labour party has abandoned its old core vote, so be it.
First, the election at hand is among members, not voters in general. Working-class Labour members are generally pro-EU, like the TUC. Second, my recollection (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Labour-voting working class voters were evenly divided on Brexit.
It's undoubtedly true that there are ex-Labour working-class voters who've defected to UKIP over immigraiton (less so over Brexit specifically). But Smith doesn't really need to address that problem right now.
This must be some kind of contrarian theory, right?
No. I have been one of his worse critics recently but this analysis is sound. Smith is trying to win a leader election. And the referendum is NOT an FPP race.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not an argument for appointing someone with no experience either in government or in foreign affairs. Britain's role in the world can't be restored to what it was. I only hope Boris screws up and leaves sooner rather than later.
I was involved in Government relations in the period 1980 to 1990 and can tell you how our standing in the world leaped under Thatcher. We went from a basket case to being admired. Trade doors opened just because we were a British company. Thatcher had not spent one day as even a junior FO minister prior to being our PM. Have you no sense of pride in your country? We are a great country with a great future ahead of us.
You're saying that since you believe that Thatcher was a great PM despite lack of foreign affairs experience, it's positively desirable to appoint a Foreign Secretary without foreign affairs experience, and who was recently derided by the new PM for his lack of it? It's a view.
No i am not. What I am saying is that it is not essential to have spent time in foreign matters. Now in Boris's case he actually has taken part in overseas trade and relations visits and is fluent in a couple of other languages etc.
He is also widely regarded abroad as a clown. He will have to work very hard to change minds. A foreign secretary needs to be taken seriously. The job will either make him or break him. Having him on a plane suits the PM, no doubt, but may not be in the country's interests. We'll see.
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Yes, Mr Llama, that would be my dream. Where every teacher is ultimately answerable to the parents. Morgan, indeed, tried to make them more remote, for which I have not forgiven her.
I do not like Gove, but equally I dislike the education establishment (says somebody who was interviewed for SLT a month ago after three years in teaching...). I don't give a stuff what they think. Sod them all and let's do what's best for the children so they get the best education and we can rebuild this country from there.
How does that sound to you as an ex-teacher, Mr Llama? I didn't only go into teaching because of the recession in HE. If I didn't really believe I could do something worthwhile there, I'd quit and do something much less onerous and stressful. A politician who keeps out of my way would be a huge improvement.
We are just about soul-mates, Doctor, well at least when it comes to education. I, perhaps being older and coming in for my third career, just would not put up with the shit you do. I love my subject and really wanted to communicate and spread that love (and get my pupils through their exams) but all I got was process. Everyone around me was focussed on process and getting the maximum number of pupils through the lowest standard that HMG had deemed acceptable, not about trying to ensure every pupil reached their potential.
Drove me up the wall, I quit and took myself off to training senior/strategic managers. It paid a lot more and there was no fecking ofsted idiot telling me I was doing it wrong
I have hopes I may yet strike a happy medium. Maybe that's just a last gasp of youthful idealism. But we will see.
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Boris needs to look after and enhance British interests abroad. He now has a very different constituency to impress. If he is not up to it, our standing will suffer.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not an argument for appointing someone with no experience either in government or in foreign affairs.
Britain's role in the world can't be restored to what it was. I only hope Boris screws up and leaves sooner rather than later.
The sentimental attachment people have to a customs union with delusions of political grandeur is baffling. The EU is just one supranational organisation of many. We would do far better to help strengthen the WTO's mission.
We will have plenty of opportunities to cooperate with Europe. May is, above all, a pragmatist.
The EU is clearly not just like any other supranational organisation. It's a project to create a European federation and has no parallel with the likes of the WTO.
If the EU were so interchangeable with other international organisations it wouldn't have created such deep and bitter political splits.
It's clear that some people here are very hurt that we won't now be part of that European Federation, but they really ought to have been making the case for that Federation a long while back.
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.
The only thing you fear more than Brexit being a failure is Brexit being a success.
Cry me a river, you won, now grow up and own it and make it work. Don't vote Brexit then cringe about the costs, or about nations looking after their own interests.
Theresa is going to make it a success why can't you join her?
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Boris needs to look after and enhance British interests abroad. He now has a very different constituency to impress. If he is not up to it, our standing will suffer.
'With Boris Johnson our top diplomat,of course I'm bloody laughing. Everyone is laughing'.
Mayor of London for 8 years & just led a successful referendum campaign unlike the three numpties that are competing to lead the Labour party who have achieved zilch.
"Successful" in the sense of winning the most votes. But international diplomacy isn't about winning votes. It is about outcomes, and the outcomes of Brexit so far are not such to increase the opinion of other people about British political capacity.
There haven't BEEN any outcomes yet, you malignant, appeasing, defeatist little traitor.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
Didn't the Brexiteers promise that Scotland will be given control of its fishing waters? I wonder how inflexible Holyrood will want to be towards the EU?
Nippy and fishermen are not exactly in tune on that one...
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
For a country that has gone from Sarko to Hollande and maybe on to Le Pen I'd say they should be careful when mocking us Brits!
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.
The only thing you fear more than Brexit being a failure is Brexit being a success.
Cry me a river, you won, now grow up and own it and make it work. Don't vote Brexit then cringe about the costs, or about nations looking after their own interests.
Brexit is great. You're the one who's throwing his toys out of the pram.
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.
Well yeah, of course the UK doesn't need to export financial services cheaply to the EU. Why didn't I read that one comment by a visitor to PB.
Here in Switzerland they're taking the view that German industry will be desperate to maintain free trade with the UK, come what may, and will persuade less eager nations to do a deal on Free Movement.
The price won't be passporting, it will be continuing significant UK contributions to the EU. We won't get that £350m back for the NHS.
The people I have spoken are still amazed and perplexed, but pretty eager to get a good deal done. And confident pragmatism will win out as long as all sides are serious about securing a workable deal. Red lines need to be understood and appreciated.
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Like you, initially I was distraught by this apparently foolish appointment.
But I can see some buried genius in it, too.
1. We have already pissed off a lot of world leaders with our Brexit vote; who better than Boris to go round the world and suck up the criticism?
2. Boris's critical weakness is that he loves himself and his humour too much to stay sensible and diplomatic. So now he is in a job where diplomacy is at a premium. Either he knuckles down and, for the first time in his life, gets stuck in to a serious job. Or he messes up and drags the country into some gaffe or other, and he gets sacked and his future prospects are in ruins, with no scapegoat in sight for him to blame.
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Boris needs to look after and enhance British interests abroad. He now has a very different constituency to impress. If he is not up to it, our standing will suffer.
Not really. May has stripped his power to Fox et al.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not an argument for appointing someone with no experience either in government or in foreign affairs. Britain's role in the world can't be restored to what it was. I only hope Boris screws up and leaves sooner rather than later.
I was involved in Government relations in the period 1980 to 1990 and can tell you how our standing in the world leaped under Thatcher. We went from a basket case to being admired. Trade doors opened just because we were a British company. Thatcher had not spent one day as even a junior FO minister prior to being our PM. Have you no sense of pride in your country? We are a great country with a great future ahead of us.
You're saying that since you believe that Thatcher was a great PM despite lack of foreign affairs experience, it's positively desirable to appoint a Foreign Secretary without foreign affairs experience, and who was recently derided by the new PM for his lack of it? It's a view.
No i am not. What I am saying is that it is not essential to have spent time in foreign matters. Now in Boris's case he actually has taken part in overseas trade and relations visits and is fluent in a couple of other languages etc.
He is also widely regarded abroad as a clown. He will have to work very hard to change minds. A foreign secretary needs to be taken seriously. The job will either make him or break him. Having him on a plane suits the PM, no doubt, but may not be in the country's interests. We'll see.
Do you actually travel abroad, or just pretend to?
Boris is one of the most visible of UK politicians in foreign countries. He's seen as amusing, smart, eccentric, occasionally silly and very British. He's also just won a referendum, against the odds, as many well know.
He will be given wary respect, and will attract curiosity. The idea all these sophisticated foreigners will be laughing into their scented foulards is just a nonsense.
Quite. The fact that our ForSec is actually known abroad before taking up the position marks him out above almost all his peers...
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
It's not a bad article generally, but he is overstating our hand there. We will be offered Norway with at best some fig leaves on FoM (in return for something else, perhaps paying a higher contribution than we would otherwise). The EU will want a deal with us, but they will not actually back down on the 4 freedoms, it would do worse long term damage to the EU if they show that you can vote leave and get exactly what you want.
'With Boris Johnson our top diplomat,of course I'm bloody laughing. Everyone is laughing'.
Mayor of London for 8 years & just led a successful referendum campaign unlike the three numpties that are competing to lead the Labour party who have achieved zilch.
"Successful" in the sense of winning the most votes. But international diplomacy isn't about winning votes. It is about outcomes, and the outcomes of Brexit so far are not such to increase the opinion of other people about British political capacity.
There haven't BEEN any outcomes yet, you malignant, appeasing, defeatist little traitor.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
It's less than a month after the fecking vote, you snivelling little quisling. These are currency fluctuations, more volatile than normal, but not unprecedented.
Get off the site. Your sort is no longer wanted here.
Fluctuations and volatile mean it goes up and down, not that it goes down and finds a level. Which it has.
@PickardJE: Boris on Clinton, 2007: "Dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, steely stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital." https://t.co/bjimS239NT
Look at this prime example of a twerp that is actually paid to write for the Economist.
Jeremy Cliffe @JeremyCliffe 2h2 hours ago "David Davis to lead Brexit negotiations. Has Eurosceptic bona fides, but actual knowledge of EU or other European capitals? Not so much."
Cliffe, just could not bother to check out that Davis was our Europe Minister for almost 3 YEARS!!!! in Major's Govt and handled Maastricht through the HoC. Yet Cliffe posts endlessly on how badly this Brexit is going.... day after day after day...
What is it about the Economist these days that they pay people to write such inaccurate misleading tripe? All Cliffe had to do was look it up on wikipedia....
It's a pathetic magazine written by kids
I know someone who works there, and says that while the staff are well-travelled and well-(or at least, expensively-)educated and erudite, and certainly "smart", a lot of the writing is done by such folk who are also very young! And obviously they have a buy-in to a certain viewpoint of the world, as seen from a particularly London-centric perspective. He reckoned it was one reason the Economist doesn't stick a byline on its pieces - would undermine reader respect.
Having said that, I've heard other people who've known writers there comment that there really are guys that know their onions there too. Still, it's telling in one respect that Cliffe simply couldn't remember Davis having been Minister of State for Europe - and more troubling that he couldn't be bothered to look up the most basic biographical details.
'With Boris Johnson our top diplomat,of course I'm bloody laughing. Everyone is laughing'.
Mayor of London for 8 years & just led a successful referendum campaign unlike the three numpties that are competing to lead the Labour party who have achieved zilch.
"Successful" in the sense of winning the most votes. But international diplomacy isn't about winning votes. It is about outcomes, and the outcomes of Brexit so far are not such to increase the opinion of other people about British political capacity.
There haven't BEEN any outcomes yet, you malignant, appeasing, defeatist little traitor.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
It's less than a month after the fecking vote, you snivelling little quisling. These are currency fluctuations, more volatile than normal, but not unprecedented.
Get off the site. Your sort is no longer wanted here.
Fluctuations and volatile mean it goes up and down, not that it goes down and finds a level. Which it has.
GBP is heading towards $1.20 - I hope it stabilises there, it might go lower...
Didn't the Brexiteers promise that Scotland will be given control of its fishing waters? I wonder how inflexible Holyrood will want to be towards the EU?
Nippy and fishermen are not exactly in tune on that one...
Since the Gover was chief proponent of Scottish water for Scottish fisher folk, I fear the idea of any Scottish control of its waters is somewhat academic.
Everyone in Europe knows Boris and he is widely regarded as a joke. He has insulted all major political figures in the US. It's not a very good appointment on the face of it. He'll have a lot of fences to mend. https://twitter.com/drscottthinks/status/746430170739810304
Boris is like Clarkson, he offends foriegn governments but the public don't care they like him anyway.
Like you, initially I was distraught by this apparently foolish appointment.
But I can see some buried genius in it, too.
1. We have already pissed off a lot of world leaders with our Brexit vote; who better than Boris to go round the world and suck up the criticism?
2. Boris's critical weakness is that he loves himself and his humour too much to stay sensible and diplomatic. So now he is in a job where diplomacy is at a premium. Either he knuckles down and, for the first time in his life, gets stuck in to a serious job. Or he messes up and drags the country into some gaffe or other, and he gets sacked and his future prospects are in ruins, with no scapegoat in sight for him to blame.
It is an absolute genius move, which should neutralise Boris in terms of a leadership run in the future. He is pretty much bound to mess up.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not an argument for appointing someone with no experience either in government or in foreign affairs.
Britain's role in the world can't be restored to what it was. I only hope Boris screws up and leaves sooner rather than later.
The sentimental attachment people have to a customs union with delusions of political grandeur is baffling. The EU is just one supranational organisation of many. We would do far better to help strengthen the WTO's mission.
We will have plenty of opportunities to cooperate with Europe. May is, above all, a pragmatist.
The EU is clearly not just like any other supranational organisation. It's a project to create a European federation and has no parallel with the likes of the WTO.
If the EU were so interchangeable with other international organisations it wouldn't have created such deep and bitter political splits.
It's clear that some people here are very hurt that we won't now be part of that European Federation, but they really ought to have been making the case for that Federation a long while back.
I quite agree... It's very sad but we'll have to make the best of it now.
Has Theresa May just handed Trump a huge credibility boost? He can now repeat all of this as being the opinion of the British Foreign Secretary.
I'm no fan of Boris's remarks on Obama's heritage, but he's not actually a 'birther' as the article claims, which is the idea that Obama wasn't born in the US. Boris just says that Obama has part-kenyan heritage.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not an argument for appointing someone with no experience either in government or in foreign affairs. Britain's role in the world can't be restored to what it was. I only hope Boris screws up and leaves sooner rather than later.
I was involved in Government relations in the period 1980 to your country? We are a great country with a great future ahead of us.
You're saying that since you believe that Thatcher was a great PM despite lack of foreign affairs experience, it's positively desirable to appoint a Foreign Secretary without foreign affairs experience, and who was recently derided by the new PM for his lack of it? It's a view.
No i am not. What I am saying is that it is not essential to have spent time in foreign matters. Now in Boris's case he actually has taken part in overseas trade and relations visits and is fluent in a couple of other languages etc.
He is also widely regarded abroad ascountry's interests. We'll see.
Do you actually travel abroad, or just pretend to?
Boris is one of the most visible of UK politicians in foreign countries. He's seen as amusing, smart, eccentric, occasionally silly and very British. He's also just won a referendum, against the odds, as many well know.
He will be given wary respect, and will attract curiosity. The idea all these sophisticated foreigners will be laughing into their scented foulards is just a nonsense.
Yep, when I travel abroad I tend to do so for business and speak to people in government and in boardrooms. Not top dogs by any means, but well informed, switched on people. Boris already has a reputation and will be well known to all foreign ministries as they have followed the referendum closely. They will also have had regular briefings from their London-based diplomatic missions. His previous utterings and exploits will all be well logged, so he'll artive in capitals with a reputation. The appointment will perplex. He will have to change minds. It's in our national intetest to have a well-regarded foreign secretary.
BBC poll on Brexit 66% prioritise free movement over controlling immigration (93% of Remain voters back this), 31% controlling immigration over free movement (56% of Leave voters back this, 42% back the single market). 52% expect the UK will stay in the single market with some limits on free movement https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston?lang=en-gb
The problem with Boris Johnson is that I don't think he is much good at anything apart from showy PR gestures and opinion writing (which links to his first skill). He makes the most of these skills but he is really an empty fortress.Theresa May's comment that his diplomacy skills only extend to bringing home three slightly used water cannon is a bit catty, but has an element of truth.
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
That is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick with your working class voters NickP. But since the Labour party has abandoned its old core vote, so be it.
First, the election at hand is among members, not voters in general. Working-class Labour members are generally pro-EU, like the TUC. Second, my recollection (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Labour-voting working class voters were evenly divided on Brexit.
It's undoubtedly true that there are ex-Labour working-class voters who've defected to UKIP over immigraiton (less so over Brexit specifically). But Smith doesn't really need to address that problem right now.
Sorry Nick, but two-thirds of current Labour seats voted Leave (as well as most of their target seats). There's simply no case that it's in Labour political interests to run on a pro-EU ticket.
UKIP were generally second in most Labour working class seats last May, it was mainly the UKIP vote which drove the Leave vote in such seats plus a 1/3 of the Labour vote on top
're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead. In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.Is that such a great loss?
Well yeah, of course the UK doesn't need to export financial services cheaply to the EU. Why didn't I read that one comment by a visitor to PB.
Here in Switzerland they're taking the view that German industry will be desperate to maintain free trade with the UK, come what may, and will persuade less eager nations to do a deal on Free Movement.
The price won't be passporting, it will be continuing significant UK contributions to the EU. We won't get that £350m back for the NHS.
The people I have spoken are still amazed and perplexed, but pretty eager to get a good deal done. And confident pragmatism will win out as long as all sides are serious about securing a workable deal. Red lines need to be understood and appreciated.
Most Leavers know we won't get everything we want. We won't mind a classic British fudge on immigration as long as unskilled migration is curtailed e.g by a surcharge on NHS use like non E.U migrants have to pay.That means the city still gets their high skilled migrants. Remember southern Europe's economy is in a mess we could say we will accept your young skilled unemployed for short term work if you give us a good deal or something similar.
That is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick with your working class voters NickP. But since the Labour party has abandoned its old core vote, so be it.
First, the election at hand is among members, not voters in general. Working-class Labour members are generally pro-EU, like the TUC. Second, my recollection (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Labour-voting working class voters were evenly divided on Brexit.
It's undoubtedly true that there are ex-Labour working-class voters who've defected to UKIP over immigraiton (less so over Brexit specifically). But Smith doesn't really need to address that problem right now.
Sorry Nick, but two-thirds of current Labour seats voted Leave (as well as most of their target seats). There's simply no case that it's in Labour political interests to run on a pro-EU ticket.
UKIP were generally second in most Labour working class seats last May, it was mainly the UKIP vote which drove the Leave vote in such seats plus a 1/3 of the Labour vote on top
Therefore, all those Labour seats would be likely losses if they take a hugely pro-EU stance.
When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........
and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.
That's not ar than later.
I was involved in Government relations in the period 1980 to your country? We are a great country with a great future ahead of us.
You're saying that since yrecently derided by the new PM for his lack of it? It's a view.
No i am not. What I am saying is that it is not essential to have spent time in foreign matters. Now in Boris's case he actually has taken part in overseas trade and relations visits and is fluent in a couple of other languages etc.
He is also widely regarded abroad ascountry's interests. We'll see.
Do you foulards is just a nonsense.
Yep, when I travel abroad I tend to do so for business and speak to people in government and in boardrooms. Not top dogs by any means, but well informed, switched on people. Boris already has a reputation and will be well known to all foreign ministries as they have followed the referendum closely. They will also have had regular briefings from their London-based diplomatic missions. His previous utterings and exploits will all be well logged, so he'll artive in capitals with a reputation. The appointment will perplex. He will have to change minds. It's in our national intetest to have a well-regarded foreign secretary.
I think foreign governments are a lot more pragmatic and grown up than you think, and will be intrigued to see what this victorious, well-known Brexiteer has to say. Any prior remarks will be seen as part of the knockabout of politics. Like "back of the queue" which worked so well for Obama he's now forgotten it entirely, as it was a clear lie.
I think they will certainly be intrigued. Will he live up to his reputation or will he show previously hidden depths and skillsets? As I said previously, the job will make him or totally break him.
May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:
1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head. 2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback. 3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.
Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order
David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?
I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?
We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.
In his ConHome article he's hanging tough on free movement.
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
It's not a bad article generally, but he is overstating our hand there. We will be offered Norway with at best some fig leaves on FoM (in return for something else, perhaps paying a higher contribution than we would otherwise). The EU will want a deal with us, but they will not actually back down on the 4 freedoms, it would do worse long term damage to the EU if they show that you can vote leave and get exactly what you want.
Quite so. We can get a deal which is good and works for the majority of citizens, but it simply is not possible to get everything, because while being punitive toward us is unhelpful to the EU, being too generous, or being seen to be too generous, only undermines the whole mess. It's the same reason there will be no offer from the EU that might justify asking us a second time to Remain, as it would tell every skeptic in the EU you can vote Leave, get a bunch of goodies, and then stay after all, they would held hostage. Giving us too much in negotiations would be the same sort of thing - they would rather take a hit from a less than optimal deal, than one that is best all around but undermines the project.
BBC poll on Brexit 66% prioritise free movement over controlling immigration (93% of Remain voters back this), 31% controlling immigration over free movement (56% of Leave voters back this, 42% back the single market). 52% expect the UK will stay in the single market with some limits on free movement https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston?lang=en-gb
That looks like remainders just expressing a view on the E.U ref, they are hurt and are trying to hit out.
The problem with Boris Johnson is that I don't think he is much good at anything apart from showy PR gestures and opinion writing (which links to his first skill). He makes the most of these skills but he is really an empty fortress.Theresa May's comment that his diplomacy skills only extend to bringing home three slightly used water cannon is a bit catty, but has an element of truth.
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
I think it'll work out that Boris's role is more "symbolic" but David Davis will have the power and it's his vision of Brexit that we need to watch.
This is going to be more a more radical Brexit than most people expected... Certainly more radical than Boris on his own would have wanted...
'With Boris Johnson our top diplomat,of course I'm bloody laughing. Everyone is laughing'.
Mayor of London for 8 years & just led a successful referendum campaign unlike the three numpties that are competing to lead the Labour party who have achieved zilch.
"Successful" in the sense of winning the most votes. But international diplomacy isn't about winning votes. It is about outcomes, and the outcomes of Brexit so far are not such to increase the opinion of other people about British political capacity.
There haven't BEEN any outcomes yet, you malignant, appeasing, defeatist little traitor.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
It's less than a month after the fecking vote, you snivelling little quisling. These are currency fluctuations, more volatile than normal, but not unprecedented.
Get off the site. Your sort is no longer wanted here.
On the contrary, Mr T - a full range of optimists, realists, and pessimists adds to the gaiety of society and the site. Without that range, who will bear the brunt of scorn when one side or the other is proven wrong so decisively? As Lab and during the referendum the Tories have shown, when its only people formerly of the same side tearing into each other, it's just sad, not fun.
'With Boris Johnson our top diplomat,of course I'm bloody laughing. Everyone is laughing'.
Mayor of London for 8 years & just led a successful referendum campaign unlike the three numpties that are competing to lead the Labour party who have achieved zilch.
"Successful" in the sense of winning the most votes. But international diplomacy isn't about winning votes. It is about outcomes, and the outcomes of Brexit so far are not such to increase the opinion of other people about British political capacity.
There haven't BEEN any outcomes yet, you malignant, appeasing, defeatist little traitor.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
It's less than a month after the fecking vote, you snivelling little quisling. These are currency fluctuations, more volatile than normal, but not unprecedented.
Get off the site. Your sort is no longer wanted here.
Fluctuations and volatile mean it goes up and down, not that it goes down and finds a level. Which it has.
The problem with Boris Johnson is that I don't think he is much good at anything apart from showy PR gestures and opinion writing (which links to his first skill). He makes the most of these skills but he is really an empty fortress.Theresa May's comment that his diplomacy skills only extend to bringing home three slightly used water cannon is a bit catty, but has an element of truth.
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
The Boris you regard as "not very good" twice won the London mayoralty against the odds, and then played a very significant role in winning an historic EU referendum, entirely against the odds.
If Boris was so rubbish, why was Cameron so terrified (and rightly) when Boris came out for LEAVE?
Boris has the air of a buffoon. But he is weirdly good at winning votes. Strikingly good, in fact.
He's good at winning votes. He's also been sacked repeatedly for making things up. One of these matters to international negotiators.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
The problem with Boris Johnson is that I don't think he is much good at anything apart from showy PR gestures and opinion writing (which links to his first skill). He makes the most of these skills but he is really an empty fortress.Theresa May's comment that his diplomacy skills only extend to bringing home three slightly used water cannon is a bit catty, but has an element of truth.
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
The Boris you regard as "not very good" twice won the London mayoralty against the odds, and then played a very significant role in winning an historic EU referendum, entirely against the odds.
If Boris was so rubbish, why was Cameron so terrified (and rightly) when Boris came out for LEAVE?
Boris has the air of a buffoon. But he is weirdly good at winning votes. Strikingly good, in fact.
Agree with all that, actually. And he might not make a bad FM as long as it's a sinecure. I thought Theresa May might give him the job. Removing the bits that matter from his portfolio would be move of genius on the part of May, except I have serious doubts about the people she has given them to. That stuff will affect us.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
Of course he does, he just needs some gullible hacked-off remainer corbynistas to believe.
I think in the context of Boris's appointment as foreign secretary, it is probably worth remembering that it was little more than a couple of weeks ago that he was strong favourite to become Prime Minister. Given the choice of the two, i'll probably take the former.
May is keen on her industrial strategy, pro-regulation worker friendly capitalism stuff. With those three clowns arguing in the three foreign affairs briefs, she will be able to get on with it, while they concern themselves
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
Of course he does, he just needs some gullible hacked-off remainer corbynistas to believe.
They will first have to work out who the hell Owen Smith is....
May is keen on her industrial strategy, pro-regulation worker friendly capitalism stuff. With those three clowns arguing in the three foreign affairs briefs, she will be able to get on with it, while they concern themselves
And she sends them on their first assignment on a practically unsinkable ship?
BBC poll on Brexit 66% prioritise free movement over controlling immigration (93% of Remain voters back this), 31% controlling immigration over free movement (56% of Leave voters back this, 42% back the single market). 52% expect the UK will stay in the single market with some limits on free movement https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston?lang=en-gb
That looks like remainders just expressing a view on the E.U ref, they are hurt and are trying to hit out.
Yes but add in 40% of Leave voters and you have a majority for the single market and some free movement
I think they will certainly be intrigued. Will he live up to his reputation or will he show previously hidden depths and skillsets? As I said previously, the job will make him or totally break him.
Unstupid question: what does a Foreign Secretary actually do? Because unless it's inappropriate sex, dressing badly, failing to prevent assaults or buying bicycles, I fail to see what abilities he brings to the role...
The problem with Boris Johnson is that I don't think he is much good at anything apart from showy PR gestures and opinion writing (which links to his first skill). He makes the most of these skills but he is really an empty fortress.Theresa May's comment that his diplomacy skills only extend to bringing home three slightly used water cannon is a bit catty, but has an element of truth.
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
The Boris you regard as "not very good" twice won the London mayoralty against the odds, and then played a very significant role in winning an historic EU referendum, entirely against the odds.
If Boris was so rubbish, why was Cameron so terrified (and rightly) when Boris came out for LEAVE?
Boris has the air of a buffoon. But he is weirdly good at winning votes. Strikingly good, in fact.
I have to admit, as someone on the left, in London, I had always liked Boris, and voted for him in 2012 (also partly because the alternative was Ken). One of the most disappointing moments of the campaign for me was when he came out for Leave - first time in the campaign that I worried Leave could win. If he had come out for Remain they would have won as Boris takes the lead, Cam takes a back seat and toxic Osborne keeps quiet, Boris against Osborne in 2019 would have seen Bojo win in the membership.
He has lost his charm with myself and other remainers so won't be as much of a vote winner as before, but he is still relatively popular with the public, so it's probably a good idea to have him in government, especially as 'cathartic vengeance' was served on the fact that he didn't claim top prize in the end. FS seems an odd choice but I wouldn't read too much into initial bemused reactions from abroad. It will no longer be a story by tomorrow morning.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
I think they will certainly be intrigued. Will he live up to his reputation or will he show previously hidden depths and skillsets? As I said previously, the job will make him or totally break him.
Unstupid question: what does a Foreign Secretary actually do? Because unless it's inappropriate sex, dressing badly, failing to prevent assaults or buying bicycles, I fail to see what abilities he brings to the role...
His main role might be to sell whatever fudge the Brexit team manage to cobble together to the British public.
Just re-watched the Johanna Baxter interview on C4 and the amount of abuse she has gotten really has made my blood boil. Can't believe that absolute scum are getting away with behaviour like that and the so called Labour 'leader' is allowing it to happen.
These Corbyn backers really need to take a long hard look at themselves and purge this evil from their party.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
Do Labour Party members seriously believe that?
Apparently so. Incredible, isn't it?
Absolutely. They'd lose another 35-45 seats on my reckoning...
Just re-watched the Johanna Baxter interview on C4 and the amount of abuse she has gotten really has made my blood boil. Can't believe that absolute scum are getting away with behaviour like that and the so called Labour 'leader' is allowing it to happen.
These Corbyn backers really need to take a long hard look at themselves and purge this evil from their party.
I heard her Radio 4 interview which elicited a similar reaction from me
May is keen on her industrial strategy, pro-regulation worker friendly capitalism stuff. With those three clowns arguing in the three foreign affairs briefs, she will be able to get on with it, while they concern themselves
And she sends them on their first assignment on a practically unsinkable ship?
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
Do Labour Party members seriously believe that?
Apparently so. Incredible, isn't it?
Absolutely. They'd lose another 35-45 seats on my reckoning...
Don't suppose she will, but I'd love TM to call one soon.
OT, but does Owen Smith realise you have to be elected to hold a referendum? Surely the deal will be ratified before 2020 by which time it'll be too late...
They're still calling for a GE, at which they'll presumably sweep to power.
Do Labour Party members seriously believe that?
In fairness they also believe in the second coming
Just re-watched the Johanna Baxter interview on C4 and the amount of abuse she has gotten really has made my blood boil. Can't believe that absolute scum are getting away with behaviour like that and the so called Labour 'leader' is allowing it to happen.
These Corbyn backers really need to take a long hard look at themselves and purge this evil from their party.
Labour moderates did nothing when the loony left were attacking the Tories and UKIP.
@BBCNewsnight: @MatthewParris3:"She's appointed the geldings rather than the stallions of Brexit. They will never satisfy the ultras in the Conservatives."
Just re-watched the Johanna Baxter interview on C4 and the amount of abuse she has gotten really has made my blood boil. Can't believe that absolute scum are getting away with behaviour like that and the so called Labour 'leader' is allowing it to happen.
These Corbyn backers really need to take a long hard look at themselves and purge this evil from their party.
Labour moderates did nothing when the loony left were attacking the Tories and UKIP.
@BBCNewsnight: @MatthewParris3:"She's appointed the geldings rather than the stallions of Brexit. They will never satisfy the ultras in the Conservatives."
@PickardJE: Boris on Clinton, 2007: "Dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, steely stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital." https://t.co/bjimS239NT
So he does have an eye for detail after all... Thanks the confirm
@PickardJE: Boris on Clinton, 2007: "Dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, steely stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital." https://t.co/bjimS239NT
Comments
On that, good night to all.
An outcome. British people are poorer. It will take a little while to affect every trade, but the sterling most people earn now buys them less. I'm sure you can think of some internationally-traded products with street prices that will be affected by this.
But I can see some buried genius in it, too.
1. We have already pissed off a lot of world leaders with our Brexit vote; who better than Boris to go round the world and suck up the criticism?
2. Boris's critical weakness is that he loves himself and his humour too much to stay sensible and diplomatic. So now he is in a job where diplomacy is at a premium. Either he knuckles down and, for the first time in his life, gets stuck in to a serious job. Or he messes up and drags the country into some gaffe or other, and he gets sacked and his future prospects are in ruins, with no scapegoat in sight for him to blame.
Having said that, I've heard other people who've known writers there comment that there really are guys that know their onions there too. Still, it's telling in one respect that Cliffe simply couldn't remember Davis having been Minister of State for Europe - and more troubling that he couldn't be bothered to look up the most basic biographical details.
Guido hardly has an unbiased viewpoint of these things, but it's tricky to disagree with him on this one.
A class act.
https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston?lang=en-gb
Still, he livens up a relentlessly gray government.
WTF!
"Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest."
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html
And it is unambiguously in the own interests of Paris, Frankfurt, Milan and even Dublin to exclude the UK from service sector passporting. Then the UK will be a happy little island alone.Is that such a great loss?
"4) FX
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1154756/#Comment_1154756
Well yeah, of course the UK doesn't need to export financial services cheaply to the EU. Why didn't I read that one comment by a visitor to PB.
Here in Switzerland they're taking the view that German industry will be desperate to maintain free trade with the UK, come what may, and will persuade less eager nations to do a deal on Free Movement.
The price won't be passporting, it will be continuing significant UK contributions to the EU. We won't get that £350m back for the NHS.
The people I have spoken are still amazed and perplexed, but pretty eager to get a good deal done. And confident pragmatism will win out as long as all sides are serious about securing a workable deal. Red lines need to be understood and appreciated.
Most Leavers know we won't get everything we want. We won't mind a classic British fudge on immigration as long as unskilled migration is curtailed e.g by a surcharge on NHS use like non E.U migrants have to pay.That means the city still gets their high skilled migrants. Remember southern Europe's economy is in a mess we could say we will accept your young skilled unemployed for short term work if you give us a good deal or something similar.
Some will never be happy ofcourse but oh well....
Theresa's was surely the shortest honeymoon in history.
This is going to be more a more radical Brexit than most people expected... Certainly more radical than Boris on his own would have wanted...
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/britain/british-pound-after-brexit/
The real trouble is with the Italian Banks and Deustche Banks, not the UK. The descent of the euro is about to begin.
We've had
PM (obviously)
CoE
Foreign
Home
Defence
Brexit
International Trade
And Osborne was sacked (and skulked out via the back door)
May is keen on her industrial strategy, pro-regulation worker friendly capitalism stuff. With those three clowns arguing in the three foreign affairs briefs, she will be able to get on with it, while they concern themselves
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/category/markets-by-sector/foreign-exchange/euro/
August is certainly looking very interesting, particularly the week beginning August 8th. Lets see.
There, I said it.
Gotcha!
He has lost his charm with myself and other remainers so won't be as much of a vote winner as before, but he is still relatively popular with the public, so it's probably a good idea to have him in government, especially as 'cathartic vengeance' was served on the fact that he didn't claim top prize in the end. FS seems an odd choice but I wouldn't read too much into initial bemused reactions from abroad. It will no longer be a story by tomorrow morning.
Who knows what tomorrow will hold. A new dawn will break, will it not?
These Corbyn backers really need to take a long hard look at themselves and purge this evil from their party.
On a more serious note, I could not help but notice this resemblance between two well known politicians:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3688798/Theresa-wears-yellow-black-ensemble-just-like-Hillary-Clinton.html
And it is striking that both resemble the nautical signalling flag L
http://www.marinewaypoints.com/learn/flags/flags.shtml
Also used at sea to mean: "You should stop your vessel immediately"
This edition of "Fun with Flags" is brought to you by Dr Foxy!
*innocent face*