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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson says the Eagle has floundered

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,076
    edited July 2016
    F1: my exciting pre-qualifying ramble is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/united-kingdom-pre-qualifying-2016.html

    Edited extra bit: I thought it'd take me a bit longer than it did, otherwise I wouldn't''ve put up the betting post early.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,267


    "So it really keeps you focused on 'what are you really saying?'. Because what it means is you don't want a downturn but 'never mind, let's look ahead to the ten years', hence it will all be fine. My children will be starting their lives in that next ten years so I have a real stake in the next year, the next two."

    It's pretty bad.

    Apart from anything else, what she says is mind-bogglingly stupid.

    It might make sense, as an argument, to say that she has more of a personal interest in what's going to happen after she's dead because she has children.

    But to say that she has a real stake in what happens next year because she has children? Nearly everyone has a real stake in what happens next year, because nearly everyone will still be alive themselves next year!
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:

    Mr T,

    I think you're right. I've never said "as a father and grandfather blah blah blah."

    I remember a friend showing me a reader's letter from the local paper in Barnet many years ago. Something along the lines of "As a survivor of the horrible conflict of the second world war, I believe I can comment on the tree-pruning services of the council. They are disgraceful."

    That's a new take on Check Your Privilege :smiley:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    The Eagle has floundered?

    Brilliant pun David, absolutely love it.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,819

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    I imagine it will be along the lines of "Andrea has to run her campaign in the way she feels comfortable with"
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Ooh, you guys are COLD. I like it.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,881
    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.

    True story: in 2005, was flying home from Calgary after a conference in Banff, Alberta. Mid-way during flight, one of the attendants comes over and asks, "Are you a doctor? We got a passenger with chest pains."

    I thought - oh shit, that'll teach me to put "dr" when buying my ticket! Luckily they did find someone else who was medically qualified, so the patient was OK in the end.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    It was played on Radio 4 at 0730 this morning if anyone is bothered to listen on iplayer.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,076
    Mr. Divvie, more importantly, Earth should be capitalised.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,103
    PlatoSaid said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MikeK said:

    I see that Leadsom carries a lot of Hate on PB, especially from the lefty crowd, wether Tory or Labour versions.

    She must frighten them because because she is slightly, ever so slightly, right wing.

    No: no hate. Amused contempt mostly and concern at the idea that she thinks (and 84 fellow MPs think) she is up to being PM and not because she is right-wing but because she is an idiot who lacks judgment.
    Linking this with the thread header, the resigning shadow ministers cited Jeremy Corbyn's ineptness, not his politics. But for the true faithful competence is not a relevant consideration.
    You'd hope they could be steered though. By criticising his competence not his politics, by and large, the MPs could not get away with not having a Corbynistas in a leadership contest if Jeremy stood down, and they might be an improvement, how has that compromise not already happened?
    And this is precisely why I want to see the media scrutinise the candidates on policy attitudes. They spend far too much time on gotcha, tittle tattle and point scoring.
    I'd largely agree with that. Also alot of the campaign is so utterly utterly negative. Note how the SNP persuaded the working class of Scotland to be much more "remain" than England.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    Theresa May should reply with

    'It is a disgrace that The Times have made Andrea look like a reactionary bigot, by quoting her words'
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    It was played on Radio 4 at 0730 this morning if anyone is bothered to listen on iplayer.
    Audio here afaik:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36752865
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,745
    edited July 2016

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016
    ToryJim said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    I imagine it will be along the lines of "Andrea has to run her campaign in the way she feels comfortable with"
    Best not to be drawn in to the fracas - I’d expect a more dignified ‘no comment’ personally.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    @LeadsomJokes: How many journalists does it take to change a lightbulb?

    Two: One to change the bulb, and one to upload the audio online as proof.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    The best thing to do is not respond.
    If there is one strength to May it is her expertise at masterly inactivity!
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    kle4 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Leadsom just on Sky - she's really pissed off with The Times. Statement, no questions.

    What did she say?

    It was pretty short. How disgusted she was, that she'd been repeatedly asked about her children etc, made it crystal clear that she didn't want any comparison drawn with May.

    I didn't get the impression she was standing down - more incandescent at her words being framed in a misleading way.

    Leadsom is clear that she is not claiming an edge over May in the PM contest because she is a mother.

    But by newspapers asking her if she is a mother and her answering yes, the media is doing the job for her of pointing out that she is a mother whereas May isn't.

    Surely a win win for Leadsom as far as Conservative members are concerned..
    That is not what Leadsom said. She said she was't drawing a comparison, then drew the comparison and suggested being a mother did give her an edge, the quotes bear that out, all that stuff about being invested more and thinking more about the future because she has kids, which given she was talking about May voluntarily means she is saying May would not think the same.

    Maybe it will play well or at least not negatively with Tory members, but it is taking the piss for Leadsom to claim she was not drawing a comparison, just because she said she wasn't.
    "Today is not a day for sound bites

    but I feel the hand of hsitory on my shoulder"

    Tony Blair

    So Leadsom is clearly in a PM mold.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    Not that I'm complaining but Louise Mensch has gone very quiet on twitter after spending most of last night batting for Andrea Leadsom vs The Times
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Growing up, we did used to get quite a lot of:

    "I didn't fight in t'last war just so you young buggers could [insert unapproved behaviour here]"

    That, I think was acceptable.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016

    Not that I'm complaining but Louise Mensch has gone very quiet on twitter after spending most of last night batting for Andrea Leadsom vs The Times

    I can tell when Louise Mensch is awake just by looking at my Twitter browser tab. She's a machine.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,745

    @LeadsomJokes: How many journalists does it take to change a lightbulb?

    Two: One to change the bulb, and one to upload the audio online as proof.

    Audio?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,076
    Mr. Eagles, yet you couldn't wait to Menschen it.

    As an aside, my German teacher used to clench his fists and growl "Mensch!" whenever someone cocked up.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    Thanks, the ConHome transcript is an improvement.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/07/the-timess-transcript-of-what-leadsom-said-in-her-interview-with-rachel-sylvester.html
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064
    Philip Collins ‏@PCollinsTimes 4m4 minutes ago
    If @LouiseMensch were still an MP could be PM candidate now. She'd have been big in the campaign and a higher intellectual class to Leadsom

    I think on this site we'd label this classic trolling.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Full audio of Wombrage here: We now have fairly indisputable evidence http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753692
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    Is is #wombgate?
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.


    I don't have Dr in my passport nor use the title (danger of being ragged about it in the factory/office).

    But a fellow engineering PhD booked a plane flight using his doctor title.

    During the long distance flight a passenger was taken ill and the stewardess woken him up to provide medical assistance.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,301

    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.

    True story: in 2005, was flying home from Calgary after a conference in Banff, Alberta. Mid-way during flight, one of the attendants comes over and asks, "Are you a doctor? We got a passenger with chest pains."

    I thought - oh shit, that'll teach me to put "dr" when buying my ticket! Luckily they did find someone else who was medically qualified, so the patient was OK in the end.
    It certainly used to be the case that pharmacists with PhD’were specifically instructed NOT to use the title anywhere where the public might become confused.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,076
    Mr. Grabcocque, 'wombrage' reads as 'wum-brage'.

    Maybe Ovareaction?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,745

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    Thanks, the ConHome transcript is an improvement.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/07/the-timess-transcript-of-what-leadsom-said-in-her-interview-with-rachel-sylvester.html
    For us, maybe.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    On topic. The Eagle is flambéed.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/751725533902299136
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    AndypetAndypet Posts: 36
    Would this be an opportune moment for her to decide to spend more time with her family?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    As a general rule in interviews or discussions, when answering a question with a series then end on the one that you wish to move the conversation on to.

    Andrea demonstrated her inexperience/malignity by steering the conversation onto her children.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    Thanks, the ConHome transcript is an improvement.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/07/the-timess-transcript-of-what-leadsom-said-in-her-interview-with-rachel-sylvester.html
    I'd love to hear her explanation of "how the economy works", as she claims to "absolutely understand" this.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited July 2016

    Full audio of Wombrage here: We now have fairly indisputable evidence http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753692

    That's a short segment. Not the whole interview.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,579
    John_M said:

    Growing up, we did used to get quite a lot of:

    "I didn't fight in t'last war just so you young buggers could [insert unapproved behaviour here]"

    That, I think was acceptable.

    Surely the reply of snotty, young smart arse should have been 'Come now Grandpa, surely you recognise that was precisely what you were fighting for', followed by a swift clout to the ear of said smart arse.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,168
    OT Report from the Japanese Senate elections, which have a proportional section with a single national open list: Big open lists are the shit.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Mr. Grabcocque, 'wombrage' reads as 'wum-brage'.

    Maybe Ovareaction?

    Madam Wombrage was a Dickens character surely?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    John_M said:

    On topic. The Eagle is flambeed.

    ttps://twitter.com/afneil/status/751725533902299136

    And the PLP meets the immoveable money.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,745
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    That is being unreasonably sympathetic. Even without her fuller answer, volunteering having children as one of three differences you have from a political opponent is low, not naive. Where she was naive was thinking that saying she didn't wish to draw an unkind comparison with May (before doing just that) would keep the story on May rather than her.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    John_M said:
    This Labour plot is so odd. If the MPs don't have the power to force Mr Corbyn out, why did they do this?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Yes, I have an aunt who is infertile, the subject has never been mentioned and we were told as children not to bring it up. She loved my sister and I as if we were her own children growing up, along with the rest of my cousins. Looking back you could see just how much it hurt for her not to be able to have her own children. I'm astonished by the comparison made by Leadsom.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064
    Wanderer said:
    Pls don't do this today. We need to keep the focus on Leadsom's unfitness for high office.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:
    This Labour plot is so odd. If the MPs don't have the power to force Mr Corbyn out, why did they do this?
    Peer pressure. Emotional blackmail. The need to be seen to be doing 'something'. The trope that anything can happen if you really, really want it and give it 110%. Being stupidly naive. Not understanding their own party rules. Take your pick.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited July 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    The best thing to do is not respond.
    If there is one strength to May it is her expertise at masterly inactivity!
    That works as a minister but not as a PM because a PM has to show leadership..
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064
    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Yes, I have an aunt who is infertile, the subject has never been mentioned and we were told as children not to bring it up. She loved my sister and I as if we were her own children growing up, along with the rest of my cousins. Looking back you could see just how much it hurt for her not to be able to have her own children. I'm astonished by the comparison made by Leadsom.
    I suspect the truth is not some much being nasty, but literally having nothing else to say. She has no idea what to do with the premiership. This is Chauncey Gardiner all over again.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,076
    Right, chaps, I'm off for a bit. Shall return for the pre-race piece (probably this evening, may be tomorrow if the weather looks wonky). Just a reminder in case the site goes down due to shifting server.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064

    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    The best thing to do is not respond.
    If there is one strength to May it is her expertise at masterly inactivity!
    That works as a minister but not as a PM because a PM has to show leadership..
    Never interrupt an enemy whilst they are making a mistake.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,532
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    It affects people deeply. We're being visited today by a friend and his German wife. When we had the little 'un they kept away, as they were trying for a child and she was deeply upset it was taking them so long.

    Once she was pregnant, they came to see us and she loved our baby.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    MaxPB said:


    Yes, I have an aunt who is infertile, the subject has never been mentioned and we were told as children not to bring it up. She loved my sister and I as if we were her own children growing up, along with the rest of my cousins. Looking back you could see just how much it hurt for her not to be able to have her own children. I'm astonished by the comparison made by Leadsom.

    The comparison was being part of a large extended family who keep her grounded.

    "Rachel Sylvester: What is the main difference between you and Theresa May?


    Andrea Leadsom: In terms of the country I think I absolutely understand how the economy works and can really focus on turning it around.

    In terms of personal qualities I see myself as one an optimist

    and two a huge member of a huge family and that’s important, my kids are a huge part of my life, my sisters my two brothers who are half brothers my mum and step dad’s sons who are very close, huge part of a family so very grounded and normal, enormously optimistic."

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/07/the-timess-transcript-of-what-leadsom-said-in-her-interview-with-rachel-sylvester.html
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,168
    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Wanderer said:

    It's on?

    ttps://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/751724391889833984

    Pls don't do this today. We need to keep the focus on Leadsom's unfitness for high office.
    Is Milne still running Labour’s media office? – They appear to have a knack for deflecting the media's attention from Tory problems.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,216

    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.


    I don't have Dr in my passport nor use the title (danger of being ragged about it in the factory/office).

    But a fellow engineering PhD booked a plane flight using his doctor title.

    During the long distance flight a passenger was taken ill and the stewardess woken him up to provide medical assistance.

    Suspect there are any number of "Dr"s commenting on NHS matters while not publishing that they are actually Phds in something irrelevant.

    A certain village idiot who is a "Dr" of Irish Womens' History, for example, but who made the mistake of libelling Anna Soubry and Lord Ashcroft, amongst others.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064
    Andypet said:

    Would this be an opportune moment for her to decide to spend more time with her family?

    :lol:
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    GIN1138 said:
    She has a pendant thingy round her neck which is hopelessly off to one side. Minor point, but looking shambolic is not a good thing. Does she not have people to sort this sort of thing out?

    And she says she has clarified instructions to her campaign team. It wasn't the campaign team that gave the interview...
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    The best thing to do is not respond.
    If there is one strength to May it is her expertise at masterly inactivity!
    That works as a minister but not as a PM because a PM has to show leadership..
    A PM also has to keep their hands clean and know when to delegate. It wasn't Cameron who said about Ed stabbing his brother in the back last election.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MattW said:

    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.


    I don't have Dr in my passport nor use the title (danger of being ragged about it in the factory/office).

    But a fellow engineering PhD booked a plane flight using his doctor title.

    During the long distance flight a passenger was taken ill and the stewardess woken him up to provide medical assistance.

    Suspect there are any number of "Dr"s commenting on NHS matters while not publishing that they are actually Phds in something irrelevant.

    A certain village idiot who is a "Dr" of Irish Womens' History, for example, but who made the mistake of libelling Anna Soubry and Lord Ashcroft, amongst others.
    He did coin 'Chicken Coup' though :lol:
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Politics is a rough old game. May's childlessness is of interest as was Heath's failure to marry.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686

    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Yes, I have an aunt who is infertile, the subject has never been mentioned and we were told as children not to bring it up. She loved my sister and I as if we were her own children growing up, along with the rest of my cousins. Looking back you could see just how much it hurt for her not to be able to have her own children. I'm astonished by the comparison made by Leadsom.
    I suspect the truth is not some much being nasty, but literally having nothing else to say. She has no idea what to do with the premiership. This is Chauncey Gardiner all over again.
    Yes, it's probably a case of dimness rather than malice, but it's not really a quality that you want in the PM. Especially one that is going to have to convince 27 other heads of governments of our views on trade and immigration. Truly astonished at the 84 idiots who thought putting her on the ballot paper was a good idea.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,876

    Indigo said:

    Establishment candidate calls on insurgent candidate to not do the sort of things that make insurgent campaigns work - interesting approach.
    - Not sticking to spending limits
    - Cooperating with other parties
    - ignoring offensive behavior by supporters on social media
    - Not staying within limits of acceptable political debate
    - not doing what's right for the party & country

    Are you suggesting Angela needs to do this to win?
    Not a great piece of marketing. It looks like what it is, a piece of campaigning literature. It's a okish idea as it goes, but needed to be done in a less crass way - an open letter on HOC paper or something.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,819
    Ishmael_X said:

    GIN1138 said:
    She has a pendant thingy round her neck which is hopelessly off to one side. Minor point, but looking shambolic is not a good thing. Does she not have people to sort this sort of thing out?

    And she says she has clarified instructions to her campaign team. It wasn't the campaign team that gave the interview...
    Were the instructions, please go buy a gag for the next time I'm within earshot of journalists?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    Jeremy Corbyn set for leadership challenge after peace talks fail

    Deputy Labour leader Tom Watson calls off talks and says there is “no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/jeremy-corbyn-set-for-leadership-challenge-after-peace-talks-fail?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    I think IIRC, Watson rushed back from Glasto and persuaded the rebels (for want of a better word) to hold off until he attempted a compromise involving the him, the unions and Corbyn thrashing it all out. So, him saying there can be no negotiation with Corbyn as no prospect of compromise, means the ball is back in the rebels court.

    The Labour party tearing itself apart in a leadership war might help May, as once again can be seen as the only grown up left standing who can get a bloody grip.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,745
    edited July 2016
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    .
    I suspect the truth is not some much being nasty, but literally having nothing else to say. She has no idea what to do with the premiership. This is Chauncey Gardiner all over again.
    Yes, that makes sense. Just sitting there thinking Ooh, three things, Um, God, dunno, that's difficult, oh.. Wait. I've got kids. Theresa hasn't. Yes. I'll say that.

    So she said it.

    A charitable conclusion is that she's just a bit dim, as you imply.
    And stayed dim for the next five minutes of the conversation, whilst spelling out the difference explicitly?

    The remarkable thing isn't the condemnation of her suitability but the lengths to which some people are going to defend her in the circumstances.

    When I first heard the story I expected the position to be that the interviewer had asked some question along the lines of "what are your greatest influences/motivates you in politics", to which Leadsom quite reasonably could have mentioned her motherhood, and then a crafty interviewer had led her along to explain why this makes her a better politician and then hit her at the end with the killer comparison with May.

    Whereas the transcript shows there are no leading questions at all, and everything that has been said was volunteered by Leadsom pretty much unprompted.

    And she was not so dim as to realise how it might look, since before making the worst of her comments she explicitly acknowledges how "really horrible" it is.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,267


    Leadsom is clear that she is not claiming an edge over May in the PM contest because she is a mother.

    But by newspapers asking her if she is a mother and her answering yes, the media is doing the job for her of pointing out that she is a mother whereas May isn't.

    Now we know from the longer transcript that Leadsom brought the issue of children up unprompted, as one of the main differences between her and Theresa May, is it too much to hope that her apologists will stop telling us she was the innocent victim of a trap?
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Chris said:


    Leadsom is clear that she is not claiming an edge over May in the PM contest because she is a mother.

    But by newspapers asking her if she is a mother and her answering yes, the media is doing the job for her of pointing out that she is a mother whereas May isn't.

    Now we know from the longer transcript that Leadsom brought the issue of children up unprompted, as one of the main differences between her and Theresa May, is it too much to hope that her apologists will stop telling us she was the innocent victim of a trap?
    Someone should remind Leadsom, that she's campaigning to run the country, not #mumsnet
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,881

    Jeremy Corbyn set for leadership challenge after peace talks fail

    Deputy Labour leader Tom Watson calls off talks and says there is “no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/jeremy-corbyn-set-for-leadership-challenge-after-peace-talks-fail?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    The Screaming Eagles are Floundering :lol:
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Yes, I have an aunt who is infertile, the subject has never been mentioned and we were told as children not to bring it up. She loved my sister and I as if we were her own children growing up, along with the rest of my cousins. Looking back you could see just how much it hurt for her not to be able to have her own children. I'm astonished by the comparison made by Leadsom.
    I suspect the truth is not some much being nasty, but literally having nothing else to say. She has no idea what to do with the premiership. This is Chauncey Gardiner all over again.
    Yes, that makes sense. Just sitting there thinking Ooh, three things, Um, God, dunno, that's difficult, oh.. Wait. I've got kids. Theresa hasn't. Yes. I'll say that.

    So she said it.

    A charitable conclusion is that she's just a bit dim, as you imply.
    hope you don't write such utter garbage in your latest book @SeanT
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,819

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    I think IIRC, Watson rushed back from Glasto and persuaded the rebels (for want of a better word) to hold off until he attempted a compromise involving the him, the unions and Corbyn thrashing it all out. So, him saying there can be no negotiation with Corbyn as no prospect of compromise, means the ball is back in the rebels court.

    The Labour party tearing itself apart in a leadership war might help May, as once again can be seen as the only grown up left standing who can get a bloody grip.
    Indeed and the last thing that Labour wants to do is show the other side what happens when the members choice has little Parliamentary support.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Politics is a rough old game. May's childlessness is of interest as was Heath's failure to marry.
    Not at all. It's off limits, as any decent person should know.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,267
    Ishmael_X said:


    She has a pendant thingy round her neck which is hopelessly off to one side.

    To the right, specifically.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Politics is a rough old game. May's childlessness is of interest as was Heath's failure to marry.
    Not at all. It's off limits, as any decent person should know.
    It does feel as though ordinarily sensible people are overlooking a lot for the sake of ideological purity at the moment. This must be how Labour moderates feel when talking to the likes of Nick Palmer about Corbyn.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,383

    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.

    True story: in 2005, was flying home from Calgary after a conference in Banff, Alberta. Mid-way during flight, one of the attendants comes over and asks, "Are you a doctor? We got a passenger with chest pains."

    I thought - oh shit, that'll teach me to put "dr" when buying my ticket! Luckily they did find someone else who was medically qualified, so the patient was OK in the end.
    It certainly used to be the case that pharmacists with PhD’were specifically instructed NOT to use the title anywhere where the public might become confused.
    It is also only a fanny that would do it in any case, bit like those losers that get knighted and then have sycophants calling them Sir, cringeworthy.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,071
    As a father of three, I believe that Andrea Leadsom is a political lightweight who is also prone to not being entirely truthful about a whole range of issues. She lied during the referendum campaign, she lied about her work experience and she has now lied about the interview she gave to the Times.

    If she really is the true keeper of the flame, what does it tell us about that flame and the people who want it to burn in perpetuity?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,383

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    We will not know till Angela is wheeled out.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    Yvette/Chuka should now lead the PLP. Freeze out the left in parliament. Then go through the process of destroying the Momentum group through a well financed #savinglabour campaign. Corbyn and his rabble will be gone by end 2017.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited July 2016
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    A "difference" is not the same as an "edge". Clearly May is different from Leadsom in not having children. This life experience might be an advantage or a disadvantage but it is a difference.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited July 2016
    Presumably if she was up against Blunkett she would have said she can do a better job because she can see and if up against Roosevelt she would have said she could have done a better job because she could walk properly?

    What was fascinating here last night was remainers desperately trying to play it down because presumably they think she would cock up brexit and fail to achieve it in office.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,071

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    I think IIRC, Watson rushed back from Glasto and persuaded the rebels (for want of a better word) to hold off until he attempted a compromise involving the him, the unions and Corbyn thrashing it all out. So, him saying there can be no negotiation with Corbyn as no prospect of compromise, means the ball is back in the rebels court.

    The Labour party tearing itself apart in a leadership war might help May, as once again can be seen as the only grown up left standing who can get a bloody grip.

    This is it now - the whole future of the Labour party is in play.

    The rebel MPs all face deselection if Corbyn wins once more, so they actually have very little more to lose.

  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Politics is a rough old game. May's childlessness is of interest as was Heath's failure to marry.
    Not at all. It's off limits, as any decent person should know.
    It does feel as though ordinarily sensible people are overlooking a lot for the sake of ideological purity at the moment. This must be how Labour moderates feel when talking to the likes of Nick Palmer about Corbyn.
    That's about the size of it Max.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,876
    6 pages on whether Andrea Leadsom thinks being a mother would make her a better PM.

    Not a single word on May's record in one of the great offices of state.

    Got to love the serious commentators on PB...
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Andrea Leadsom's comments are absolutely awful. The Tories surely cannot let this joker be PM?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,383
    Jobabob said:

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    Yvette/Chuka should now lead the PLP. Freeze out the left in parliament. Then go through the process of destroying the Momentum group through a well financed #savinglabour campaign. Corbyn and his rabble will be gone by end 2017.
    Two absolute donkeys, a snake oil salesman and an absolute no hoper. Labour are well and truly F****** if that is what they have to depend on.
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    ChaosOdinChaosOdin Posts: 67
    edited July 2016
    Leadsom is clearly a liar. It is now without a doubt. It is in black and white.

    Another contrast with Thatcher (with whom Leadsom herself invited comparisons). Even Thatcher's worst enemies would never claim she told anything other than the truth as she saw it.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    A "difference" is not the same as an "edge". Clearly May is different from Leadsom in not having children. This might be an advantage or a disadvantage but it is a difference.
    She implied (or said?) it makes her a better candidate because she has a direct stake in the future of the country. It's an indecent attack on a person who is unable to have children and has said she feels great regret about that inability.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Leadsom just on Sky - she's really pissed off with The Times. Statement, no questions.

    She is really annoyed at the way they tried to twist her words by quoting them verbatim.
    The Times headline wasn't justified by Leadsom's remarks was it?

    Murdock's The Sun and The Times are both backing May and have an agenda. They are going to get attacked by Leadson so better watch out.

    The Daily Mail is also pro May. Will any news organisation back Leadsom - The Daily Express?
    The headline was that Leadsom claimed being a mother gave her the edge on May.

    In an interview about a leadership contest where Leadsom had volunteered being a mother as one of her key attributes. Then without prompting referred to it being sad that her opponent has no children, and in the same answer gone on to explain in detail how being a mother gave her a stake in the future and meant she would be more keen to avoid a downturn. Etc.

    In the circumstances I suggest that the headline is not only accurate but relatively restrained. If the interview had been with the Sun? That last question left as an 'exercise for the reader', as those old textbooks used to say.
    Without seeing the previous questions we can't tell if it was unprompted.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    @thomasknox: Think Boris Johnson should be prime minister, because he has about 274 kids, at the last count.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait for May's response. Expect she'll put the boot in with a dignified but murderous magnanimity.

    The best thing to do is not respond.
    If there is one strength to May it is her expertise at masterly inactivity!
    That works as a minister but not as a PM because a PM has to show leadership..
    May's inactivity and reluctance to compromise does run the risk of running down the A50 clock, forcing a last minute scramble or an unceremonious exit.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,064
    edited July 2016

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    I think IIRC, Watson rushed back from Glasto and persuaded the rebels (for want of a better word) to hold off until he attempted a compromise involving the him, the unions and Corbyn thrashing it all out. So, him saying there can be no negotiation with Corbyn as no prospect of compromise, means the ball is back in the rebels court.

    The Labour party tearing itself apart in a leadership war might help May, as once again can be seen as the only grown up left standing who can get a bloody grip.

    This is it now - the whole future of the Labour party is in play.

    The rebel MPs all face deselection if Corbyn wins once more, so they actually have very little more to lose.

    I'm hesitant to make a prediction given the way this summer is going. On the face of it, all out civil war starts on Monday in a bitter fight for the party. But then again nothing may happen.

    I did have one thought though. Stand Lord Kinnock against Corbyn.

    There appear to be no available odds on that one.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    malcolmg said:

    Jobabob said:

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    Yvette/Chuka should now lead the PLP. Freeze out the left in parliament. Then go through the process of destroying the Momentum group through a well financed #savinglabour campaign. Corbyn and his rabble will be gone by end 2017.
    Two absolute donkeys, a snake oil salesman and an absolute no hoper. Labour are well and truly F****** if that is what they have to depend on.
    Morning Malc and thanks for your kind words sir!
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,373

    The more I think about it I think its dark arts from Leadsom. She has made the point she wanted to about Mrs May being childless. Its despicable but I feel sure she intended this.

    Frankly she should never be allowed anywhere near No 10.

    Yes, she's certainly enthused the hard-right Tory/Kipper contingent on here, who aren't far short of shouting 'Go Girl!' But this is straight out of the Trump playbook - if you can get the powers that be into a flap, then you must be doing something right, and the alienated will love you for it. This might work out very well for her.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've listened to the interview as posted by @Gadfly earlier, I don't know what Leadsom is complaining about. She was given a softball question about her being proud of her family, she then went on to draw the comparison between herself and May to paint May in a negative light. The interviewer didn't even mention Mrs May.

    I find her lack of compassion pretty disconcerting. She claims to be a Christian, but I'm sure that compassion is one of the foundations of the religion having sat through endless sermons while at school.

    We don't know what the preceding questions were. There seems to be an audio recording available, but the Times have chosen not to release it.
    There is a longer transcript on ConHome.

    The open question that led to the conversation was "what is the main difference between you and Theresa May?". In answer to which Leadsom volunteers understanding the economy, being an optimist, and having children.

    The interviewer then not surprisingly starts to explore the third of these.

    I don't see any defence for Leadsom in the longer transcript? Indeed the emphasis in the original question "difference from May" makes bringing up children even worse. (And entirely justifies the Times headline)
    I've got friends with no kids. People who, I know, wanted kids. We talk about everything under the sun from sex to death to God to spin bowling. But, like any sentient human being, I know never to go near THAT subject, unless they start talking about it first. Which they generally don't.

    It's an unspoken human rule. You don't mention it. Because it is pointlessly hurtful.

    I think Leadsom is probably guiltier of stupid naivety than active nastiness. But it still damages her, badly.
    Politics is a rough old game. May's childlessness is of interest as was Heath's failure to marry.
    Not at all. It's off limits, as any decent person should know.
    The life experience of the PM candidates is surely important?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    Leadsom is top of the news billing - and the electorate now know that Leadsom has children, and May doesn't. Whether this should be an issue aside, the way it was done aside, like Leave's 350m claim, I don't think this is going to harm her.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    OK, having now seen the con home transcript I am going with malicious.
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited July 2016
    malcolmg said:

    CD13 said:

    Sunil,

    Being a PhD holder myself, I have Dr still on my passport (the companies I worked for would book foreign flights for me). However, I always put Mr on anything else. I have this worry otherwise that someone would come running up and ask for medical assistance.

    "Let the bastard die," doesn't sound that sympathetic.

    True story: in 2005, was flying home from Calgary after a conference in Banff, Alberta. Mid-way during flight, one of the attendants comes over and asks, "Are you a doctor? We got a passenger with chest pains."

    I thought - oh shit, that'll teach me to put "dr" when buying my ticket! Luckily they did find someone else who was medically qualified, so the patient was OK in the end.
    It certainly used to be the case that pharmacists with PhD’were specifically instructed NOT to use the title anywhere where the public might become confused.
    It is also only a fanny that would do it in any case, bit like those losers that get knighted and then have sycophants calling them Sir, cringeworthy.
    Ive got more letters after my name than in it - including my middle name - but rarely use them even at work.

    Basically only when Im writing a missive to correct some arrogant twunt then the letters appear on the end which adds to the impact.

    Yours Mr Bedfordshire BEng(Hons) CEng MI** MI***
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    OK Andrea's leadership campaign has crashed and burned. She should now do the honourable thing and step out of the race, it will be painful but she should be honest and say "my inexperience has shown during this campaign that I am not ready to be PM and although I never meant any harm by my comments I know I shouldn't have said them". Said down gracefully instead of losing ungracefully.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    malcolmg said:

    Jobabob said:

    Wanderer said:
    I'm not sure if this means it's on or it's off. One or the other. Or possibly Don't Know.
    Yvette/Chuka should now lead the PLP. Freeze out the left in parliament. Then go through the process of destroying the Momentum group through a well financed #savinglabour campaign. Corbyn and his rabble will be gone by end 2017.
    Two absolute donkeys, a snake oil salesman and an absolute no hoper. Labour are well and truly F****** if that is what they have to depend on.
    All of which are an improvement over the incumbent.
This discussion has been closed.