I just don't get the appeal of Leadsom. Empty words covered up by a warm smile.
I guess it's the lets try something different, new, untried, quiet bat people crazy etc etc. Labour had their moment last summer, let's hope Tories don't this summer.
I think Gove is a duplicitous rat, but I will sleep easier tonight if he keeps Leadsom off the final ballot.
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
If remainers are so convinced May will beat Leadsom with the members, then why not just say right, bring it on? Lets let the mighty Theresa hammer Andrea to a pulp
Unless they are scared, of course.
Agree entirely.
The poll yesterday showing Theresa May miles ahead in support among the voting public and the likely honeymoon that would follow will be a very big part in the membership's decision.
If remainers are so convinced May will beat Leadsom with the members, then why not just say right, bring it on? Lets let the mighty Theresa hammer Andrea to a pulp
Unless they are scared, of course.
There is a leadership contest in progress that will determine who becomes party leader and PM. What do you want, a boxing match between the two finalists?
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
If she takes us out of the single market to satisfy the false argument about a majority voting for immigration restrictions then there is no way I'll vote for the Conservatives if she is still PM in 2020 let alone go out and campaign for them. She is the antithesis of what the modern Conservative party should be.
Yup. Some of May's authoritarian tendencies trouble me, but she is considerably more main stream (and so, voter-friendly) than either Leadsmen or Gove.
It is just her owning Brexit that is the lingering doubt. Will the EU believe she will go through with it? If I were the EU, I'd think she could be bought off....
Brexiteers need to get a PM in place who will invoke article 50 before BREXIT becomes so unpopular that it will be politically impossible to implement. Foreign holidays on a weak pound will start the slide, expensive fuel and house price movements will continue it.
Trying to get down the A303 with the pound at EUR1.05 will be hell.
With ten year UK government borrowing rates at 0.73% we can afford to add a few new carriageways to the road :-)
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She makes a good point but she's not practically checked if they were Remainers or not and calling them mad doesn't help anything. She can't make a good point without shooting herself in the foot.
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She didn't today. Just walked off with no questions. Very poor
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
It speaks to the degree of paranoia about politics and politicians in general. We've heard a lot of talk about the realpolitik of Brexit and how hard squaring the SM/no FoM circle is going to be.
We've heard less about the consequences of revoking the referendum result. Not domestically; we might have the odd Toxteth riot or some very polite middle class demonstrations. We might even get a General Election. Big deal.
The real consequences would be internationally. The UK would be like the polite, well-dressed person at a cocktail party that converses beautifully and intelligently and then confides that the world is secretly run by Lizard People.
The EU would never, ever, ever trust us again. The US have already dropped London for Berlin in matters European, so that ship has already sailed. Any sensible business would make medium term plans to get out, just in case we changed our minds again. Commerce doesn't like uncertainty but it hates craziness.
I don't believe May would ignore the result simply because she can't.
Everybody knows that politicians sometimes come under pressure to ask the voters to decide things, and when you ask voters things they're sometimes going to give you an answer they'll regret later. The realpolitik will be fine as long as British governments don't get in the referendum habit.
If she takes us out of the single market to satisfy the false argument about a majority voting for immigration restrictions then there is no way I'll vote for the Conservatives if she is still PM in 2020 let alone go out and campaign for them. She is the antithesis of what the modern Conservative party should be.
Yup. Some of May's authoritarian tendencies trouble me, but she is considerably more main stream (and so, voter-friendly) than either Leadsmen or Gove.
It is just her owning Brexit that is the lingering doubt. Will the EU believe she will go through with it? If I were the EU, I'd think she could be bought off....
Brexiteers need to get a PM in place who will invoke article 50 before BREXIT becomes so unpopular that it will be politically impossible to implement. Foreign holidays on a weak pound will start the slide, expensive fuel and house price movements will continue it.
Trying to get down the A303 with the pound at EUR1.05 will be hell.
With ten year UK government borrowing rates at 0.73% we can afford to add a few new carriageways to the road :-)
Quite right !
I have no idea why the markets are lending to us that cheaply though. If the £ goes south then an international investor will get even less cash in return !
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She comes up with half baked schemes (small company exemptions from rules, immediate triggering of Article 50) and then has to backtracks...
I do believe that a PM needs to engage brain before mouth...
Amazing how rapidly the frothers have adopted Leadsom as their great hope... One glance at that swept blonde coiffure and all marching along in unison to their rallying cry of 'bitty'!
The only frothing going on is Remainers spitting bile over every Leaver in sight, still in apoplexy about the dirty plebs not falling into line. The way they jump on every crumb or suggestion of weakness about a Leaver, no matter how weak the story, is embarrassing.
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
It was all those silly people that cost him.
How much did you pile on to Brexit for ?
Not a penny as I stated at the time, I couldn't be objective.
Love the posed photo of a self satisfied individual sat in a bookies telling us how he'd invested thousands. And now we're all batshit crazy.
It goes on in bookies every afternoon, blokes losing money on short favourites then throwing betting slips around and swearing.
Can't help feeling that Michael Gove made a miscalculation in knifing Boris.
He clearly believed Boris wasn't the man for the job and did what he thought was right, but it killed Boris and his own chances and left the Brexit camp only with Leadsom. I just watched Leadsom speak and it was pretty empty - it won't impress any serious players.
May will win it, and at a canter. And I suspect May would've won it against Boris too (just). But Gove taking Boris down has deprived the leadership battle of a serious head to head. One where May would've needed to bring her 'A' game - like Cameron had to do in 2005.
May will walk it now. Watching Leadsom today (and that silly Citizen Smith march on parliament, on her behalf) proves to me she isn't a serious contender.
May v Boris would've been heavyweight.
Boris should have pressed on. Was he put off by the lack of an almost coronation?
Amazing how rapidly the frothers have adopted Leadsom as their great hope... One glance at that swept blonde coiffure and all marching along in unison to their rallying cry of 'bitty'!
The only frothing going on is Remainers spitting bile over every Leaver in sight, still in apoplexy about the dirty plebs not falling into line. The way they jump on every crumb or suggestion of weakness about a Leaver, no matter how weak the story, is embarrassing.
Suck it up! Corbyn has had almost a year of it....
What's with her icon? "I'm with Gove, Leadsom4leader"
Eh?
I believe that's the default Anyone But May icon... I'm personally Leadsom>May>Gove (for this minute at least) but it's quite clear if you assume May is definitely on the ballot.
What's with her icon? "I'm with Gove, Leadsom4leader"
Eh?
I believe she wants a Leadsom/Gove ticket and for the leavers to unite, well that's the impression I got from her comments on twitter the other day.
Watched some of Leadsom's speech this morning, I just don't get her appeal. Lovely voice and smile but no substance whatsoever. She's giving off an out of her depth vibe, Corbyn in a skirt is very apt.
Mr. Meeks, do you think everyone who supported Leave is backing Leadsom?
I'm sure that isn't the case. However there is a vocal hardcore of MP'S and Leavers who are making a lot of noise based on very little evidence of any ability barring one reasonable debate showing. As Liz Kendall fans discovered one decent public performance doesn't necessarily signal the impending arrival of the answer to the nations woes.
A cursory scan of Leadsom supporters among the Tory MPs , many of whom belong in UKIP, is enough to frighten the living daylights out of any sane Leaver or Remainer. Imagine the cabinet if she wins!
If she takes us out of the single market to satisfy the false argument about a majority voting for immigration restrictions then there is no way I'll vote for the Conservatives if she is still PM in 2020 let alone go out and campaign for them. She is the antithesis of what the modern Conservative party should be.
Yup. Some of May's authoritarian tendencies trouble me, but she is considerably more main stream (and so, voter-friendly) than either Leadsmen or Gove.
It is just her owning Brexit that is the lingering doubt. Will the EU believe she will go through with it? If I were the EU, I'd think she could be bought off....
Brexiteers need to get a PM in place who will invoke article 50 before BREXIT becomes so unpopular that it will be politically impossible to implement. Foreign holidays on a weak pound will start the slide, expensive fuel and house price movements will continue it.
Trying to get down the A303 with the pound at EUR1.05 will be hell.
With ten year UK government borrowing rates at 0.73% we can afford to add a few new carriageways to the road :-)
Quite right !
I have no idea why the markets are lending to us that cheaply though. If the £ goes south then an international investor will get even less cash in return !
All of Switzerland's gilts are underwater, out to 50 years. I think I saw that $10.7 TRILLION is now invested in bonds or gilts with a negative return. People are focusing on the UK economy and going 'eww'. If they looked more widely, their heads would explode.
The world has gone quietly insane since 2008. There are oceans of cheap money looking for a safe home, and struggling to find one. This is why the markets are so hard to understand, so volatile and in some cases, counter-intuitive.
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
It was all those silly people that cost him.
How much did you pile on to Brexit for ?
Not a penny as I stated at the time, I couldn't be objective.
Love the posed photo of a self satisfied individual sat in a bookies telling us how he'd invested thousands. And now we're all batshit crazy.
It goes on in bookies every afternoon, blokes losing money on short favourites then throwing betting slips around and swearing.
Ah shame that, at about 2 am Brexit was possibly the biggest 4-5 shot or so there had ever been in the history of betting.
One thing he doesn't pick up on that much is how much the divides and fault lines between soft and hard Brexit look almost identical to the old ones pre-Brexit. The only significant new fracture is in how the middle class soft left relate to harder left elements of the Corbyn alliance, but it would be naive to simply say that results in the soft left hopping back in with more centrist elements when what is on offer through that route remains so hazy.
If she takes us out of the single market to satisfy the false argument about a majority voting for immigration restrictions then there is no way I'll vote for the Conservatives if she is still PM in 2020 let alone go out and campaign for them. She is the antithesis of what the modern Conservative party should be.
Yup. Some of May's authoritarian tendencies trouble me, but she is considerably more main stream (and so, voter-friendly) than either Leadsmen or Gove.
It is just her owning Brexit that is the lingering doubt. Will the EU believe she will go through with it? If I were the EU, I'd think she could be bought off....
Brexiteers need to get a PM in place who will invoke article 50 before BREXIT becomes so unpopular that it will be politically impossible to implement. Foreign holidays on a weak pound will start the slide, expensive fuel and house price movements will continue it.
Trying to get down the A303 with the pound at EUR1.05 will be hell.
With ten year UK government borrowing rates at 0.73% we can afford to add a few new carriageways to the road :-)
Quite right !
I have no idea why the markets are lending to us that cheaply though. If the £ goes south then an international investor will get even less cash in return !
People with cash are desperate to put it somewhere safe. Germany, Switzerland, Japan are negative, such is the desperation i.e. investors pay the government for privilege of lending to them.
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She didn't today. Just walked off with no questions. Very poor
She was poor in the second debate too. She was ineffectual and cold which isn't a great combination.
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She didn't today. Just walked off with no questions. Very poor
Leadsom is better answering questions than reading out her speech.
Perhaps today she did't have the time since she is a minister and an MP with Department and Constituency affairs to run as well as the leadership campaign.
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
It was all those silly people that cost him.
How much did you pile on to Brexit for ?
Not a penny as I stated at the time, I couldn't be objective.
Love the posed photo of a self satisfied individual sat in a bookies telling us how he'd invested thousands. And now we're all batshit crazy.
It goes on in bookies every afternoon, blokes losing money on short favourites then throwing betting slips around and swearing.
Ah shame that, at about 2 am Brexit was possibly the biggest 4-5 shot or so there had ever been in the history of betting.
Yes I'm sure plenty made a few bob I couldn't see the wood for the trees. Craziest market ever
I think the Corbyn comparison is wholly unfair. - She has had a proper job. - She hasn't (on the record) called for terrorist groups to be delisted or called any of them friends. - She changes her mind (once she saw the renegotiation was terrible) whereas Corbyn has kept the same view for over 40 years unchanging. - She has more than 40 MPs supporting her, more than Corbyn could get even with shadow cabinet position sweeties to give out (Leadsom doesn't have the same leverage as she is the underdog). - She doesn't have a history on the backbenchers/fringes or mixing with radical groups allowing for potential dirt to be dragged up. - She doesn't have a beard. - There is no party within a party style momentum operation, and there is no evidence of entryism with the strict tory rules = if she wins she'll win with true tory members.
There are probably other points but I think I've made my point...
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
It was all those silly people that cost him.
How much did you pile on to Brexit for ?
Not a penny as I stated at the time, I couldn't be objective.
Love the posed photo of a self satisfied individual sat in a bookies telling us how he'd invested thousands. And now we're all batshit crazy.
It goes on in bookies every afternoon, blokes losing money on short favourites then throwing betting slips around and swearing.
Ah shame that, at about 2 am Brexit was possibly the biggest 4-5 shot or so there had ever been in the history of betting.
Yes I'm sure plenty made a few bob I couldn't see the wood for the trees. Craziest market ever
I suffered a bit from that too, was looking and couldn't believe the odds - thought I must have got something wrong. #Couldhavemademoreregrets
@rottenborough There is a strand of opinion on pb that gets upset when it is suggested that Leavers are batshit mental. Andrea Leadsom being a serious contender in this leadership election race is all the proof that is needed of the truth of that suggestion.
Alastair Meeks, a 48-year-old lawyer, is going with the flow; he plans to put several thousand pounds on Britain staying in the EU. "I got into gambling through politics, rather than into politics through gambling," he said. "I will increase my commitments as we get closer (to the vote)."
It was all those silly people that cost him.
48 year old Alastair Meeks is clearly still a youngster.
As has been pointed out following the Brexit voting, people become more wise as they get older.
Once Alastir gets to JackW's age he will recognise the wisdom of the public when voting to exit the EU.
The overall picture is going to be mixed. I had a look at some of the financial analysis.
The current level of the pound means 2-3p on a litre of petrol. Foreign holidays are obviously going to be more expensive. Ditto a lot of dollar-denominated imports (e.g. consumer electronics).
We're into behavioural economics now. Will people defer big-ticket purchases? Will they swap from a German car to a Japanese one, or just keep the current motor running? Buy the new sofa or wait a while?
Most of the economy doesn't do any business with the EU directly. It's how that performs that determines whether we have a slowdown or a recession.
Remember there are all kinds of buffers in the economy. Brexit shock will take time to work its way through the system, whether the effect is good or ill.
Momentum INCREDIBLE NEWS. 200,000 people have joined @UKLabour in 10 days. Join the movement to say #CorbynStays https://t.co/aqDGqwZCL0
I'm not sure the labour party is the labour party anymore.....
If they are really, new people and not rejoiners, and they are mainly Corbynista, then things look very bleak for Labour. It's turning into some kind of weird cult, where the central figure is, unbeknownst to the believers, not the messiah.
I would not call them experts, just professionals doing that work. I posted yesterday anecdotes from a mortgage broker, a Financial Advisor (v Large Company) and 11 heads of SMEs. Folk I trust to give an impartial view on what is happening in the private sector.
For my fellow experts in Latin, the classics, and Morris Dancer, is 'Liberal Democrat delenda est' the correct term?
The 'delenda est' usually would come before the subject as it's an imperative. If you are saying something has happened it will be a different verb form but haven't touched Latin in 25 years so not sure what that would be
If that's the main index then quoting in local currency is useless since a majority if companies earn in FX and quote in USD which makes their GBP earnings better.
Better to look at the FTSE 250 or adjust for Sterling in which case we're at about 10% down from the pre Brexit peak. Not the end of civilisation as the Remain camp were saying but neither is it business as usual.
Mr. Meeks, do you think everyone who supported Leave is backing Leadsom?
I'm sure that isn't the case. However there is a vocal hardcore of MP'S and Leavers who are making a lot of noise based on very little evidence of any ability barring one reasonable debate showing. As Liz Kendall fans discovered one decent public performance doesn't necessarily signal the impending arrival of the answer to the nations woes.
A cursory scan of Leadsom supporters among the Tory MPs , many of whom belong in UKIP, is enough to frighten the living daylights out of any sane Leaver or Remainer. Imagine the cabinet if she wins!
As you know I am BoO largely in the Hannan mold, which means while EEA has its appeal for stability in the short term, in the longer term we should be looking at freedom of movement, either within the EEA by building a consensus, or outside the EEA when we have enough stand alone trade deals to support ourselves. Ultimately the British people should control, through their elected representatives and institutions, their own borders.
My concern about May is that she will open for EEA/EFTA plus every single possible bell and whistle, being as close to being in the EU as she can get away with without it actually saying that on the tin, the optics of this will be terrible, especially if she is surrounded by a number of gloating Remain colleague giving the voters the impression that the elites have got one over them again, and I can see it giving the kippers a substantial boost.
I think Gove is the man for the job, maybe not to lead the party into the 2020 election, for certainly for the next three years to get BrExit organised and rolling. He has the forensic mind and energy required to tackle this sort of life sapping and detailed work.
I do slightly wonder if the reason Boris decided not to stand is because he can see that the next three years is going to cause substantial unpopularity for the leader, and he is the big picture, warm words, hopey changey sort of leader, Gove parently isnt that bothered about being popular. I can't help the suspicion that there is something orchestrated about the Gove/Boris bustup. Gove hands over to Boris in 2019 ?
@David_Evershed Far from it. If Andrea Leadsom wins, my long term betting strategies start to align.
I can't see her holding the Conservative party together in government for more than a few months. She would be the most inappropriate appointment since Caligula planned to make Incitatus a consul and the Conservative party should bear in mind what happened to that emperor.
For my fellow experts in Latin, the classics, and Morris Dancer, is 'Liberal Democrat delenda est' the correct term?
The 'delenda est' usually would come before the subject as it's an imperative. If you are saying something has happened it will be a different verb form but haven't touched Latin in 25 years so not sure what that would be
It is in the sense of Cameron saying it before the last general election.
@David_Evershed Far from it. If Andrea Leadsom wins, my long term betting strategies start to align.
I can't see her holding the Conservative party together in government for more than a few months. She would be the most inappropriate appointment since Caligula planned to make Incitatus a consul and the Conservative party should bear in mind what happened to that emperor.
Angela's army is on the march. There is absolutely no possible way in which a comparison with the Corbynistas is appropriate :-D
When facts change, I change my opinion. On the night of the referendum I cried all the way to the bank.
I thought Remain would narrowly win (except for a few brief moments, during the campaign). But, I thought the odds that were being offered on Brexit on 22nd and 23rd June were far too tempting to resist. By contrast, the odds being offered on Remain were on a par with running on to a motorway to pick up a pound coin. I understand that even after Sunderland had declared, the odds on Remain were still at 1-2.
"While the Brexit result caused some to pull out of transactions and a number of purchasers’ chains to collapse, “the majority” of deals agreed before the referendum are going through, conveyancers say."
If she takes us out of the single market to satisfy the false argument about a majority voting for immigration restrictions then there is no way I'll vote for the Conservatives if she is still PM in 2020 let alone go out and campaign for them. She is the antithesis of what the modern Conservative party should be.
Yup. Some of May's authoritarian tendencies trouble me, but she is considerably more main stream (and so, voter-friendly) than either Leadsmen or Gove.
It is just her owning Brexit that is the lingering doubt. Will the EU believe she will go through with it? If I were the EU, I'd think she could be bought off....
Brexiteers need to get a PM in place who will invoke article 50 before BREXIT becomes so unpopular that it will be politically impossible to implement. Foreign holidays on a weak pound will start the slide, expensive fuel and house price movements will continue it.
Trying to get down the A303 with the pound at EUR1.05 will be hell.
With ten year UK government borrowing rates at 0.73% we can afford to add a few new carriageways to the road :-)
Quite right !
I have no idea why the markets are lending to us that cheaply though. If the £ goes south then an international investor will get even less cash in return !
People with cash are desperate to put it somewhere safe. Germany, Switzerland, Japan are negative, such is the desperation i.e. investors pay the government for privilege of lending to them.
2008 wasn't all about shadow banking and spivs and funny money. There is a real world problem across the world of longevity everywhere, and how to best transport the tokens predominantly gained in middle years both ever further onwards into old age and forwards to when you are first setting up. This has resulted in supply issue with both long-term savings and lending vehicles that are fit to transport those tokens over so many years for so many people. Housing sits in the middle of both.
That's my visualisation of it as a layman. How you restructure capitalism to make things work over those timescales is well beyond my ken.
Mr. Meeks, do you think everyone who supported Leave is backing Leadsom?
I'm sure that isn't the case. However there is a vocal hardcore of MP'S and Leavers who are making a lot of noise based on very little evidence of any ability barring one reasonable debate showing. As Liz Kendall fans discovered one decent public performance doesn't necessarily signal the impending arrival of the answer to the nations woes.
A cursory scan of Leadsom supporters among the Tory MPs , many of whom belong in UKIP, is enough to frighten the living daylights out of any sane Leaver or Remainer. Imagine the cabinet if she wins!
As you know I am BoO largely in the Hannan mold, which means while EEA has its appeal for stability in the short term, in the longer term we should be looking at freedom of movement, either within the EEA by building a consensus, or outside the EEA when we have enough stand alone trade deals to support ourselves. Ultimately the British people should control, through their elected representatives and institutions, their own borders.
My concern about May is that she will open for EEA/EFTA plus every single possible bell and whistle, being as close to being in the EU as she can get away with without it actually saying that on the tin, the optics of this will be terrible, especially if she is surrounded by a number of gloating Remain colleague giving the voters the impression that the elites have got one over them again, and I can see it giving the kippers a substantial boost.
I think Gove is the man for the job, maybe not to lead the party into the 2020 election, for certainly for the next three years to get BrExit organised and rolling. He has the forensic mind and energy required to tackle this sort of life sapping and detailed work.
I do slightly wonder if the reason Boris decided not to stand is because he can see that the next three years is going to cause substantial unpopularity for the leader, and he is the big picture, warm words, hopey changey sort of leader, Gove parently isnt that bothered about being popular. I can't help the suspicion that there is something orchestrated about the Gove/Boris bustup. Gove hands over to Boris in 2019 ?
Agree with much of that - I'm so cynical re the Tory vote that I see everything as some behind the scenes play or planned fuss.
Tried to stop Brexit, the Iraq war and joined a coalition that provided excellent government from 2010-2015 ?
Guilty as charged !
Is that why TSE wants them destroyed?
God no. This is an article in praise of the Lib Dems.
I had a conversation with someone yesterday evening, he asked whether I think Dave regrets hiring Sir Lynton Crosby for the election and wiping out the Lib Dems. If we hadn't won a majority he would very likely still be PM.
If that's the main index then quoting in local currency is useless since a majority if companies earn in FX and quote in USD which makes their GBP earnings better.
Better to look at the FTSE 250 or adjust for Sterling in which case we're at about 10% down from the pre Brexit peak. Not the end of civilisation as the Remain camp were saying but neither is it business as usual.
Shall we use the Oldham stock exchange or the eastern Timor shares?
Risk of Brexit was there, so Hammond ignores it? Though he also claims that there was a risk that any study would have been leaked.
I would have thought that HMG would have gamed or discussed implications of Brexit occuring, but then planning for an end game does seem rather out of fashion since 2003.
Just watched Andrea Leadsom presentation that promised sunny uplands to everyone but came over as very light weight with not a single proposition on how she would achieve this new utopia.
Without being unkind I was concerned at the way when she said something her supporters would like, she stood there with a vacuous nodding smile waiting for applause. However, the most astonishing part of the presentation was the way she walked off as quick as she could to avoid questions. In view if the two page Daily Mail investigation into her c.v and her tax arrangements this is a car crash waiting to happen
I spoke with my son last night who has just moved to live in Vancouver from New Zealand and is involved with export logistics and currency. He said that the courting of Australia and New Zealand by the UK hardly gets any coverage as their interests are now in the Pacific rim.
He maintains that deals with Australia and New Zealand are not really important to them. Interesting
More significantly, they are not really that important to us. We already have sizeable access to both markets, neither of which is very big
If that's the main index then quoting in local currency is useless since a majority if companies earn in FX and quote in USD which makes their GBP earnings better.
Better to look at the FTSE 250 or adjust for Sterling in which case we're at about 10% down from the pre Brexit peak. Not the end of civilisation as the Remain camp were saying but neither is it business as usual.
Shall we use the Oldham stock exchange or the eastern Timor shares?
It's just the nature of investing in the UK. The FTSE 100 is full of foreign companies for whom weak Sterling is great which drags the index upwards. The FTSE 250 has far fewer companies which rely on overseas income and that index is down about 8% from the pre-brexit peak.
I suspect that when May is installed as PM some of the useless idiots supporting Leadweight will find their careers permanently retarded.
Well I think Leadsom is going to be made Minister for Brexit after this showing. Gove will get off easy.
Oh no doubt but the likes of Villiers and Mordaunt will not prosper. Plus the thing with the Brexit ministry is that Andrea will probably rub up the EU negotiators so badly she'll be sacked by Xmas
Agreed. I think her association with outside forces (Banks, UKIP, Farage, Leave.EU etc...) and not having any backing from remain supporters is going to make her easy to box assuming a May victory.
What's scary is that I'm beginning to come around to the idea of Gove as PM such is my dislike of Leadsom. She represents the God-bothering, gay-bashing, Tombstone group wing of the party. I can't wait for them all to die in the next 10 years.
Trouble is the most enthusiastic support is from the CWF/YBF/Mark Clarke Style libertarian moron youth wing.
Because she is New and Shiny. Neither of which are a reason to vote for her...
No. Because she knows her stuff when challenged and has excellent communication skills. She can connect with the public very effectively.
She didn't today. Just walked off with no questions. Very poor
Leadsom is better answering questions than reading out her speech.
Perhaps today she did't have the time since she is a minister and an MP with Department and Constituency affairs to run as well as the leadership campaign.
So perhaps she's "just getting on with the job" ?
She is hiding from the revelations on her cv and tax affairs. She has got some explaining to do and if she can then fine but at present it looks shifty
@David_Evershed Far from it. If Andrea Leadsom wins, my long term betting strategies start to align.
I can't see her holding the Conservative party together in government for more than a few months. She would be the most inappropriate appointment since Caligula planned to make Incitatus a consul and the Conservative party should bear in mind what happened to that emperor.
Whoever wins the Con leadership contest is likely to produce a short-term polling boost for the conservatives. The poll numbers are what most of the MPs will be watching.
Risk of Brexit was there, so Hammond ignores it? Though he also claims that there was a risk that any study would have been leaked.
I would have thought that HMG would have gamed or discussed implications of Brexit occuring, but then planning for an end game does seem rather out of fashion since 2003.
They were concerned that if they gamed and planned it in detail they might find that the world was actually not going to end, and that after some initial bumps it would be completely manageable... if that leaked out it would be curtains for Project Bollocks, so they threw away responsible national contingency planning for short terms political reasons.
Comments
May has spent the last 6 years perfecting masterly inaction. Another three won;t be too much of a stretch.
I think Gove is a duplicitous rat, but I will sleep easier tonight if he keeps Leadsom off the final ballot.
It was all those silly people that cost him.
The poll yesterday showing Theresa May miles ahead in support among the voting public and the likely honeymoon that would follow will be a very big part in the membership's decision.
Remember the Conservative Party expects to govern
Original slagging off of @AndreaLeadsom by mad Remainer gets 1000 plus RTs - retraction unnoticed. #Brexit https://t.co/PmTuaBVnyn
She can't make a good point without shooting herself in the foot.
I have no idea why the markets are lending to us that cheaply though. If the £ goes south then an international investor will get even less cash in return !
Eh?
I do believe that a PM needs to engage brain before mouth...
Love the posed photo of a self satisfied individual sat in a bookies telling us how he'd invested thousands. And now we're all batshit crazy.
It goes on in bookies every afternoon, blokes losing money on short favourites then throwing betting slips around and swearing.
Watched some of Leadsom's speech this morning, I just don't get her appeal. Lovely voice and smile but no substance whatsoever. She's giving off an out of her depth vibe, Corbyn in a skirt is very apt.
A cursory scan of Leadsom supporters among the Tory MPs , many of whom belong in UKIP, is enough to frighten the living daylights out of any sane Leaver or Remainer. Imagine the cabinet if she wins!
The world has gone quietly insane since 2008. There are oceans of cheap money looking for a safe home, and struggling to find one. This is why the markets are so hard to understand, so volatile and in some cases, counter-intuitive.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36723220
One thing he doesn't pick up on that much is how much the divides and fault lines between soft and hard Brexit look almost identical to the old ones pre-Brexit. The only significant new fracture is in how the middle class soft left relate to harder left elements of the Corbyn alliance, but it would be naive to simply say that results in the soft left hopping back in with more centrist elements when what is on offer through that route remains so hazy.
Perhaps today she did't have the time since she is a minister and an MP with Department and Constituency affairs to run as well as the leadership campaign.
So perhaps she's "just getting on with the job" ?
"Britain’s housing market is “back to business as usual”, according to mortgage brokers, conveyancers, estate agents – and buyers and sellers."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/business-as-usual-as-housing-and-mortgage-markets-crank-back-to/?WT.mc_id=e_DM136925&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Pfi_New_Mon&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_Pfi_New_Mon_2016_07_06&utm_campaign=DM136925
- She has had a proper job.
- She hasn't (on the record) called for terrorist groups to be delisted or called any of them friends.
- She changes her mind (once she saw the renegotiation was terrible) whereas Corbyn has kept the same view for over 40 years unchanging.
- She has more than 40 MPs supporting her, more than Corbyn could get even with shadow cabinet position sweeties to give out (Leadsom doesn't have the same leverage as she is the underdog).
- She doesn't have a history on the backbenchers/fringes or mixing with radical groups allowing for potential dirt to be dragged up.
- She doesn't have a beard.
- There is no party within a party style momentum operation, and there is no evidence of entryism with the strict tory rules = if she wins she'll win with true tory members.
There are probably other points but I think I've made my point...
Tony Blair was given his chance by the Chilcot Committee to make his points and they are already taken account of in the report.
Momentum
INCREDIBLE NEWS. 200,000 people have joined @UKLabour in 10 days. Join the movement to say #CorbynStays https://t.co/aqDGqwZCL0
As has been pointed out following the Brexit voting, people become more wise as they get older.
Once Alastir gets to JackW's age he will recognise the wisdom of the public when voting to exit the EU.
Samuel Coates Retweeted
The Int'l Spectator @intlspectator
Stocks, past month.
UK: +4.4%
Russia: -2.7%
Poland: -4.6%
Netherlands: -5%
France: -7.4%
Germany: -8%
Spain: -10%
Italy: -13%
Greece: -19%
The current level of the pound means 2-3p on a litre of petrol. Foreign holidays are obviously going to be more expensive. Ditto a lot of dollar-denominated imports (e.g. consumer electronics).
We're into behavioural economics now. Will people defer big-ticket purchases? Will they swap from a German car to a Japanese one, or just keep the current motor running? Buy the new sofa or wait a while?
Most of the economy doesn't do any business with the EU directly. It's how that performs that determines whether we have a slowdown or a recession.
Remember there are all kinds of buffers in the economy. Brexit shock will take time to work its way through the system, whether the effect is good or ill.
As will Alastair Meeks.
Guilty as charged !
The country needs a "will do" PM with vision who is prepared to be radical - not some dreary technocrat manager or a Kipper with a fake CV.
Leadsome : expand Heathrow
May : have review into expanding Heathrow
Gove : Boris Island.
Better to look at the FTSE 250 or adjust for Sterling in which case we're at about 10% down from the pre Brexit peak. Not the end of civilisation as the Remain camp were saying but neither is it business as usual.
My concern about May is that she will open for EEA/EFTA plus every single possible bell and whistle, being as close to being in the EU as she can get away with without it actually saying that on the tin, the optics of this will be terrible, especially if she is surrounded by a number of gloating Remain colleague giving the voters the impression that the elites have got one over them again, and I can see it giving the kippers a substantial boost.
I think Gove is the man for the job, maybe not to lead the party into the 2020 election, for certainly for the next three years to get BrExit organised and rolling. He has the forensic mind and energy required to tackle this sort of life sapping and detailed work.
I do slightly wonder if the reason Boris decided not to stand is because he can see that the next three years is going to cause substantial unpopularity for the leader, and he is the big picture, warm words, hopey changey sort of leader, Gove parently isnt that bothered about being popular. I can't help the suspicion that there is something orchestrated about the Gove/Boris bustup. Gove hands over to Boris in 2019 ?
I can't see her holding the Conservative party together in government for more than a few months. She would be the most inappropriate appointment since Caligula planned to make Incitatus a consul and the Conservative party should bear in mind what happened to that emperor.
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/migrant-drownings-rise-as-gangs-send-more-boats-rp005gqq8
That's my visualisation of it as a layman. How you restructure capitalism to make things work over those timescales is well beyond my ken.
Now admits he was on the same Radio Four Barings programme with her in 2011.
Risk of Brexit was there, so Hammond ignores it? Though he also claims that there was a risk that any study would have been leaked.
I would have thought that HMG would have gamed or discussed implications of Brexit occuring, but then planning for an end game does seem rather out of fashion since 2003.
"I'm not sure the labour party is the labour party anymore..... "
It can rename itself 'The Real SWP'.