Looks like things are moving in Andrea Leadsom's favour... I did wonder if this might happen when I saw Alistair Meek's hatchet job earlier. At the moment it seems when Mr Meeks says one thing the opposite happens!
I think May should simply try and build up as many MP votes as she can in each round to demonstrate that she is the overwhelming choice of the PLP. Hopefully Tory members in the country will learn the lesson from Labour that choosing a leader who isn't strongly endorsed by the party's PLP risks major problems for the future.
If May tries to game the result she risks being charged with sharp practice. She doesn't want to let Gove off the hook as, "Deceiver-in Chief".
In 2001 Tory members picked IDS despite Clarke beating him amongst MPs
By all means feel free accept the darn thing. At least it doesn't have a garden on it. I think, however, they ought to erect something at least roughly similar to the drawing.
P/S That's seriously competent!!
It's actually quite easy once you know how to drive one: the hydraulics are rock steady under the load, so it's just a case of finessing the controls to get what you want. Though they have been done to tip over sideways. Ahem.
Just google JCB Dancing Diggers to see some of the things they can do.
If a group of Muslims behaved like this in the UK what do you think would happen? What is the point in showing inflammatory videos. You need to read the Guardian a little more and the Sun, a little less. It'll make you into a more spiritually balanced person.
It's a bloody news story, you gibbering twit. And - see my comments- it has bearing on the the whole question of Brexit, migration and Free Movement.
We've gone beyond the point where we can just hide this stuff away, as Brexit has crisply revealed.
Actually, sean- I think you are fundamentally wrong about immigration.
I watched Panorama tonight.
The WWC's are angry particularly about Eastern European immigration. Why? Because they are more skilled, more reliable, they are prepared to work for less, they are harder working, and they take their jobs. As an employer, who would you take?
Equally, many Asian first and second generation voted Brexit for the same reason. Their livelihoods are at risk with this influx of a hard working, industrious, labour force from Eastern Europe.
The WWC classes have coped for decades with Muslim and Asian immigration. Communities have largely coped. Asian and Muslim migrants haven't threatened their existence in the way that Eastern Europeans have who are hungry and industrious.
I don't know the answers. Protectionism against this influx of East European Labour will invariably hurt our economy, but I can understand why the WWC don't want them here.
Showing a video about a Muslim not letting a dog into a taxi is barking (pun intended) up the wrong tree.
Tuscany tyson watches 30 minute BBC program. Instantly diagnoses complex decadal socio-economic problems from comfort of own sofa. Crowd go wild. What a time to be alive!
On the issue of Muslim people not wanting to associate with people who make them religiously uncomfortable I have a whole list of grievances I could roll out.
You may be surprised to learn that in our experience as a gay couple with adopted kids you almost never run into any form of trouble in the UK. But every time we ever do it is from Muslims.
We have had problems with people ranging from other parents at play groups to NHS doctors.
It has really turned me against the religion.
I'm so sorry to hear this as a Muslim, what trouble did u have with the NHS doctor? Pm me if u want.
It is okay, you don't have to be sorry! (Unless it was you :P)
I don't think every Muslim person is to blame for my bad experiences. I just think there must be something slightly philosophically rotten going on that means one belief system seems to throw out all the people who try to throw up obstacles.
There are plenty of very conservative Christian people in this country who must be miffed at our family, but they don't seem to personally take any action, large or small, to make our life harder. Perhaps the issue is not just with mainstream Muslim attitudes to gay people, but also to how much of their religion society has allowed them to feel it is acceptable to burden other people with.
Our NHS doctor was always very friendly to us, until we asked for an adoption health assessment (which you legally need to get). It was hard to pin him down to get it, and he couldn't quite but help asking my not to go through with it in mine. I laughed about that when I got home but never dreamed it would affect the service he performed.
Unfortunately once we did adopt he went from being a helpful family doctor to never being available. All new parents need a doctor more than most but we had adopted a baby under 1 who had not enormous but significant health problems because of her circumstances coming into care. His sudden disinterest ranged cancelling appointments at the last minute to not examining her properly (couldn't wait to get us out the room) and prescribing the wring medicine for an infected rash.
In the end we had to switch GP, which was a mission in itself.
Ultimately I am guessing at his motives I suppose, which I why I never made a fuss about the gay thing when complaining, but I really do think it was at the heart of it all.
I think May should simply try and build up as many MP votes as she can in each round to demonstrate that she is the overwhelming choice of the PLP. Hopefully Tory members in the country will learn the lesson from Labour that choosing a leader who isn't strongly endorsed by the party's PLP risks major problems for the future.
If May tries to game the result she risks being charged with sharp practice. She doesn't want to let Gove off the hook as, "Deceiver-in Chief".
I think you'll find that Gove is the choice of the PLP. The PCP however...
Off topic: Two uplifting things today. Juno orbital insertion and a great Ars Technica article on ITER (the multinational fusion proof of concept). Science and technology are amazing, politicians suck.
One of the great ironies of Brexit is that many LEAVE voters have no issue with EU migration - it's non EU migration (especially Muslim migration) which concerns them. I've seen LEAVERs vox popped on TV who said exactly that.
However they weren't given a chance to say Please stop THAT particular kind of migration, so the people pulled the only anti-immigration lever they had. Brexit.
This presents an opportunity for May (or whoever wins).
IF she says she is going to reduce non-EU immigration to the low tens of thousands (which she could do tomorrow) she might be able to sell continued Free Movement within the EEA.
And to think we said please don't burn the house down for the sake of a (much needed) discussion about immigration.
Quite and there was silly old me believing the Leavers on here when they said Brexit was all about sovereignty,
Surely there is no hope of Leadsom getting her true believer plans through the house? I can't comment on the poll, perhaps we need to see a few more, trend is the friend etc.
How many genuine Tory europhile MPs are there? Ones that have long been on the record about their pro-euness, like Soubry or Clarke? If it's more than 30 they could cause real trouble to any brexit plans anyway (12 to knock out con majority, 7 to cover labour leavers, 8 to cover DUP).
Could depend on if the SNP abstain or not (they may do if it helps their independence cause, but I think they would probably still vote against)
SNP would vote against as Sturgeon won't want to lose credibility. There are probably 30+ Europhile Tories, Damian Green, Geo Osborne (!), David Cameron (!), Clare Perry etc etc
I expect that Conservatives who voted against Brexit now would lose the Whip.
If it was an EEA type solution from May I can imagine the threat of losing the whip being enough to keep them in line. But if it's a completely out option, with a leader preferred amongst members not MPs, would the europhile's still vote it through? Labour MPs may be useless at rebellions but the Tories generally have a better knack for it!
It's not in the gift of the House of Commons.
The outcome is the result of negotiation with the EU. Given the end of free movement, if the EU says no deal other than World Trade tariffs then the HoC can not vote for EFTA.
It is not up to the EU whether we join EFTA. It is up to the EFTA members. Since you are referring specifically to EFTA then bear in mind the EU has absolutely no say whatsoever over the makeup of EFTA.
But EFTA members (other than Lichtenstein) have to agree free movement.
EFTA is an association of oddball countries in western Europe that aren't members of the EU. The European Economic Area (EEA) is a single market and social area setup between EFTA and the EU. To be part of the EEA a Brexited UK would have to join EFTA and, in practice, get the agreement of the EU
No it wouldn't. We have been over this dozens of times and you are still wrong.
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
One of the great ironies of Brexit is that many LEAVE voters have no issue with EU migration - it's non EU migration (especially Muslim migration) which concerns them. I've seen LEAVERs vox popped on TV who said exactly that.
However they weren't given a chance to say Please stop THAT particular kind of migration, so the people pulled the only anti-immigration lever they had. Brexit.
This presents an opportunity for May (or whoever wins).
IF she says she is going to reduce non-EU immigration to the low tens of thousands (which she could do tomorrow) she might be able to sell continued Free Movement within the EEA.
And to think we said please don't burn the house down for the sake of a (much needed) discussion about immigration.
Quite and there was silly old me believing the Leavers on here when they said Brexit was all about sovereignty,
Fuck, sorry. Forgot we can't talk about immigration. Forgive us.
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
I don't see a mechanism for our removal as an EEA contracting party if we are EFTA members. I don't see the issue because the offer is going to come.
If Leadsom is anywhere near May with YouGov then she has to get Leadsom knocked out by tactical voting - because Leadsom has momentum.
But if Leadsom is nowhere with YouGov then maybe the situation isn't so serious.
I wouldn't worry about the tactical voting being "found out" - Cameron did it to eliminate Fox and nobody said anything. Members aren't in any position to do anything about it.
One of the great ironies of Brexit is that many LEAVE voters have no issue with EU migration - it's non EU migration (especially Muslim migration) which concerns them. I've seen LEAVERs vox popped on TV who said exactly that.
However they weren't given a chance to say Please stop THAT particular kind of migration, so the people pulled the only anti-immigration lever they had. Brexit.
This presents an opportunity for May (or whoever wins).
IF she says she is going to reduce non-EU immigration to the low tens of thousands (which she could do tomorrow) she might be able to sell continued Free Movement within the EEA.
And to think we said please don't burn the house down for the sake of a (much needed) discussion about immigration.
Quite and there was silly old me believing the Leavers on here when they said Brexit was all about sovereignty,
Fuck, sorry. Forgot we can't talk about immigration. Forgive us.
Off topic: Two uplifting things today. Juno orbital insertion and a great Ars Technica article on ITER (the multinational fusion proof of concept). Science and technology are amazing, politicians suck.
I'm dubious about ITER - they haven't even sorted out the materials yet, which is why they're having to build a lab just to research them, called IMFMIF. A problem is the large number of high-energy neutrons that that sort of reactor produces (an order of magnitude greater than that produced by fusion). Still, such research might be worth doing anyway, for other purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
I've got the hope that when fusion comes, it won't be something like ITER, but more something like the LM Skunkworks designs, or (hopefully) aneutronic, which has many advantages and one significant disadvantage.
On the issue of Muslim people not wanting to associate with people who make them religiously uncomfortable I have a whole list of grievances I could roll out.
You may be surprised to learn that in our experience as a gay couple with adopted kids you almost never run into any form of trouble in the UK. But every time we ever do it is from Muslims.
We have had problems with people ranging from other parents at play groups to NHS doctors.
It has really turned me against the religion.
Gay men who support mass immigration from Muslim countries are engaged in slow-motion suicide.
I think that awareness is slowly spreading, but unfortunately their proportion of the population is fixed.
He wouldn't but endorsing someone who shouldn't even be in the contest is just staggering. Leadsom is egregiously unqualified. Inflicting her on the country would be a betrayal of the people the Conservatives were elected to serve just 14 months ago. It would be a decision from which the party would never ever recover.
I wouldn't feel betrayed and would be interested to hear how you feel you are qualified to speak for the nation, especially when not using your mouth.
It's called an opinion and you don't need any qualifications to offer one.
Sky News doco on A Nation Divided is pretty good. Amazing how many people (particular on the Leave side) think it was a mistake holding the referendum
Plenty no doubt, and maybe more depending how things go? But hundreds of thousands? Unlikely. And how many would think it a mistake if remain won and then more integration occurred?
Looks like things are moving in Andrea Leadsom's favour... I did wonder if this might happen when I saw Alistair Meek's hatchet job earlier. At the moment it seems when Mr Meeks says one thing the opposite happens!
Alistair Meeks and Dan Hodges...
Poor old Boris - he failed to offer Andrea a job which annoys Gove into standing, and now he's backing her for PM!
Well, more fun it would seem today. As I'm not a Conservative, I don't have a dog in the race to be the next Prime Minister. Theresa May has all the warmth of a chilly December night in Verkhoyansk while I don't think I've ever listened to Leadsom.
With the three men varying between Barking and completely Upminster, it's an unpalatable prospect but someone will have to make sense of all this.
If Leadsom is anywhere near May with YouGov then she has to get Leadsom knocked out by tactical voting - because Leadsom has momentum.
But if Leadsom is nowhere with YouGov then maybe the situation isn't so serious.
I wouldn't worry about the tactical voting being "found out" - Cameron did it to eliminate Fox and nobody said anything. Members aren't in any position to do anything about it.
I think Leadsom has a good chance of reaching 33.3% with MPs which would mean tactical voting is a waste of time.
Looks like things are moving in Andrea Leadsom's favour... I did wonder if this might happen when I saw Alistair Meek's hatchet job earlier. At the moment it seems when Mr Meeks says one thing the opposite happens!
Alistair Meeks and Dan Hodges...
Poor old Boris - he failed to offer Andrea a job which annoys Gove into standing, and now he's backing her for PM!
I assume she's happy with the job he finally offered.
So Leadsom as PM here we come... At what point will the Brexiteers ok here admit that things are not going as planned?
Off topic: Two uplifting things today. Juno orbital insertion and a great Ars Technica article on ITER (the multinational fusion proof of concept). Science and technology are amazing, politicians suck.
I'm dubious about ITER - they haven't even sorted out the materials yet, which is why they're having to build a lab just to research them, called IMFMIF. A problem is the large number of high-energy neutrons that that sort of reactor produces (an order of magnitude greater than that produced by fusion). Still, such research might be worth doing anyway, for other purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
I've got the hope that when fusion comes, it won't be something like ITER, but more something like the LM Skunkworks designs, or (hopefully) aneutronic, which has many advantages and one significant disadvantage.
I appreciate that it's suffering from the F-35 syndrome - they've pushed ignition back to 2025. But I just love the fact that it's 35 countries working together to attempt something wonderful.
Commercial fusion won't come in my lifetime, but it'll be grand when it does.
Tuscany tyson watches 30 minute BBC program. Instantly diagnoses complex decadal socio-economic problems from comfort of own sofa. Crowd go wild. What a time to be alive!
Actually I lived in Blackpool and Preston for many years, and was curious to know how these type of well integrated communities have changed from what I remember.
I cannot recall one comment that the Asians, the Pakistanis were coming here and undercutting our jobs. I don't remember anything about Bangladeshi plumbers, or Karachi mechanics working for less.
The Asians largely assimilated well because they found other opportunities...setting up niche businesses, restaurants, take aways, corner shops, taxis etc. Jobs that the WWC didn't want, or didn't have the skills in.
But the Eastern Europeans have come here and taken on the WWC classes in their trades and beaten them under the rules of neo-liberal capitalism. They work harder for less money.
Sometimes, away from the noise of political tribal loyalty, I come on here to discuss ideas.
Right now the question is how stridently for Leave they are - all the Tory candidates are committed to leaving now, no matter their stance before, because to not do so would be political suicide, so it's a matter of how much of a Leave do Tory members want, do they trust May to deliver that or would they see her more careful approach, perhaps even accepting some FOM, as backtrackking on Brexit or a betrayal, and do they think Leadsome either excellent enough to delivery it instead, or at least better placed to do so despite her flaws.
This presents an opportunity for May (or whoever wins).
IF she says she is going to reduce non-EU immigration to the low tens of thousands (which she could do tomorrow) she might be able to sell continued Free Movement within the EEA.
May is Home Secretary, and has been for six years. Why didn't she reduce non-EU immigration to the low tens of thousands at any point in that period?
Because she is rubbish at her job?
I suspect George Osborne didn't want immigration reduced for obvious reasons.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Refusal to admit guide dogs is unfortunately not a rare thing. Saintsbury's came under fire for leaving it up to staff discretion for instance. I would be wary of racial stereotyping on one instance.
Its not racial stereotyping, its religious fact.
"Yesterday both the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association and the National Federation of the Blind confirmed the problem was common, and, according to the latter organisation was 'getting worse'."
Well, more fun it would seem today. As I'm not a Conservative, I don't have a dog in the race to be the next Prime Minister. Theresa May has all the warmth of a chilly December night in Verkhoyansk while I don't think I've ever listened to Leadsom.
With the three men varying between Barking and completely Upminster, it's an unpalatable prospect but someone will have to make sense of all this.
I don't want to cuddle May on a Chilly Night in wherever, I want a competent PM. And, for me Theresa ticks there boxes.
Net migration has been above 200k for 11 of the last 12 years. Only half of that is EU migration. As I've said many times before, it's pace and scale first, the minutiae is just that: minutiae.
I think May should simply try and build up as many MP votes as she can in each round to demonstrate that she is the overwhelming choice of the PLP. Hopefully Tory members in the country will learn the lesson from Labour that choosing a leader who isn't strongly endorsed by the party's PLP risks major problems for the future.
If May tries to game the result she risks being charged with sharp practice. She doesn't want to let Gove off the hook as, "Deceiver-in Chief".
I think you'll find that Gove is the choice of the PLP. The PCP however...
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
He wouldn't but endorsing someone who shouldn't even be in the contest is just staggering. Leadsom is egregiously unqualified. Inflicting her on the country would be a betrayal of the people the Conservatives were elected to serve just 14 months ago. It would be a decision from which the party would never ever recover.
I wouldn't feel betrayed and would be interested to hear how you feel you are qualified to speak for the nation, especially when not using your mouth.
Off topic: Two uplifting things today. Juno orbital insertion and a great Ars Technica article on ITER (the multinational fusion proof of concept). Science and technology are amazing, politicians suck.
I'm dubious about ITER - they haven't even sorted out the materials yet, which is why they're having to build a lab just to research them, called IMFMIF. A problem is the large number of high-energy neutrons that that sort of reactor produces (an order of magnitude greater than that produced by fusion). Still, such research might be worth doing anyway, for other purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
I've got the hope that when fusion comes, it won't be something like ITER, but more something like the LM Skunkworks designs, or (hopefully) aneutronic, which has many advantages and one significant disadvantage.
I appreciate that it's suffering from the F-35 syndrome - they've pushed ignition back to 2025. But I just love the fact that it's 35 countries working together to attempt something wonderful.
Commercial fusion won't come in my lifetime, but it'll be grand when it does.
I'm 43, and I think it'll come in my lifetime (I hope!). You sound a technically-minded person - do some research into aneutronic fusion, and particularly the work of the French team. If they can get the energies, then it's the way forward. Whilst that's a mighty big conditional. it might be easier - and cheaper - than getting materials that can withstand the neutron energies from ITER for long periods. And as it emits charged particles rather than neutrons, you can do direct-to-electricity conversion, missing out on the dangerous and inefficient thermal cycle (i.e. steam plant).
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
No. We are independent signatories to the EEA agreement. A number of countries have started as EFTA members and moved to being EU members without any change to their status in the EEA Agreement and no amendments.
If you look at the text of, for example, the Association Agreements signed with other countries outside the EEA they state that they are specifically between the EU and those countries. That does not apply in the case of the EEA agreement because it was a treaty between individual states. This allowed for states to move from EFTA to the EU without having to change the treaty. It applies equally in the other direction.
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
I don't see a mechanism for our removal as an EEA contracting party if we are EFTA members. I don't see the issue because the offer is going to come.
Our current EEA membership through the EU will lapse along with our other treaties with the EU under the Article 50 guillotine. We can't be part of the EEA unless we are a member of either the EU or EFTA. The question is whether we can be part of the EEA automatically through our new EFTA membership. I am sure not. Firstly because it would be unworkable for the UK to be in the EEA against the wishes of the EU. Secondly the EEA Treaty is updated every time a new member joins, requiring sign off from various EU bodies.
The EU may agree, of course. The point is, we can't be part of the EEA if they don't
A lot of people seemed to want to vote for Boris - his endorsement surely will help Leadsome quiet a bit. May will be getting nervous - sure things don't always pan out anymore.
He wouldn't but endorsing someone who shouldn't even be in the contest is just staggering. Leadsom is egregiously unqualified. Inflicting her on the country would be a betrayal of the people the Conservatives were elected to serve just 14 months ago. It would be a decision from which the party would never ever recover.
I wouldn't feel betrayed and would be interested to hear how you feel you are qualified to speak for the nation, especially when not using your mouth.
It's called an opinion and you don't need any qualifications to offer one.
That much I expected, but I do respect the admission for the record.
Refusal to admit guide dogs is unfortunately not a rare thing. Saintsbury's came under fire for leaving it up to staff discretion for instance. I would be wary of racial stereotyping on one instance.
Its not racial stereotyping, its religious fact.
"Yesterday both the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association and the National Federation of the Blind confirmed the problem was common, and, according to the latter organisation was 'getting worse'."
I once walked the sublimely wonderful Trotsky into a local corner shop (Oxford), Indian owned, and the owner picked up a stick at me and went hysterical.
Italy is a wonderful country because I can take Trotsky everywhere. I can even wheel her around the supermarket, and she can sniff, snuffle and dare I say, offer a little lick, to any of the produce on offer.
Those legendary "markets" in short order are not going to like the fact that Leadsom is appearing abruptly to be in the lead, or what she's saying. That in itself could affect her chances.
Right now the question is how stridently for Leave they are - all the Tory candidates are committed to leaving now, no matter their stance before, because to not do so would be political suicide, so it's a matter of how much of a Leave do Tory members want, do they trust May to deliver that or would they see her more careful approach, perhaps even accepting some FOM, as backtrackking on Brexit or a betrayal, and do they think Leadsome either excellent enough to delivery it instead, or at least better placed to do so despite her flaws.
I'd imagine most Conservative voters would favour the more pragmatic approach of May, I'm hoping the membership doesn't include too many wild eyed zealots who'd consider any watering down of FOM as heresy and any delay to Brexit as ideologically impure. I;m not optimistic. Leadsom as PM would put the Tories back 20 years electorally.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
This is true, the point is if she's so talented she ought to be PM with almost zero serious political experience why have others not obviously amazingly talented such as Nicky Morgan got in the Cabinet before her.
Right now the question is how stridently for Leave they are - all the Tory candidates are committed to leaving now, no matter their stance before, because to not do so would be political suicide, so it's a matter of how much of a Leave do Tory members want, do they trust May to deliver that or would they see her more careful approach, perhaps even accepting some FOM, as backtrackking on Brexit or a betrayal, and do they think Leadsome either excellent enough to delivery it instead, or at least better placed to do so despite her flaws.
With all the media talk of ignoring/re-running the referendum, I'd think they'd have become less trusting. I certainly have.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Off topic: Two uplifting things today. Juno orbital insertion and a great Ars Technica article on ITER (the multinational fusion proof of concept). Science and technology are amazing, politicians suck.
I'm dubious about ITER - they haven't even sorted out the materials yet, which is why they're having to build a lab just to research them, called IMFMIF. A problem is the large number of high-energy neutrons that that sort of reactor produces (an order of magnitude greater than that produced by fusion). Still, such research might be worth doing anyway, for other purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
I've got the hope that when fusion comes, it won't be something like ITER, but more something like the LM Skunkworks designs, or (hopefully) aneutronic, which has many advantages and one significant disadvantage.
I appreciate that it's suffering from the F-35 syndrome - they've pushed ignition back to 2025. But I just love the fact that it's 35 countries working together to attempt something wonderful.
Commercial fusion won't come in my lifetime, but it'll be grand when it does.
I'm 43, and I think it'll come in my lifetime (I hope!). You sound a technically-minded person - do some research into aneutronic fusion, and particularly the work of the French team. If they can get the energies, then it's the way forward. Whilst that's a mighty big conditional. it might be easier - and cheaper - than getting materials that can withstand the neutron energies from ITER for long periods. And as it emits charged particles rather than neutrons, you can do direct-to-electricity conversion, missing out on the dangerous and inefficient thermal cycle (i.e. steam plant).
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
If Leadsom is anywhere near May with YouGov then she has to get Leadsom knocked out by tactical voting - because Leadsom has momentum.
But if Leadsom is nowhere with YouGov then maybe the situation isn't so serious.
I wouldn't worry about the tactical voting being "found out" - Cameron did it to eliminate Fox and nobody said anything. Members aren't in any position to do anything about it.
I think Leadsom has a good chance of reaching 33.3% with MPs which would mean tactical voting is a waste of time.
She won't get anywhere near 33.3%.
Per Crick she has 40 with 99 still to declare.
33.3% is 110.
So she would need 70 out of the remaining 99 (pre transfers).
With transfers from Fox (13) she would need 57 out of the remaining 99 (assuming no transfers from Crabb - but that's reasonable as we've given her 100% of Fox).
So she can't get anywhere near 110 whilst Gove is still in the race.
Right now the question is how stridently for Leave they are - all the Tory candidates are committed to leaving now, no matter their stance before, because to not do so would be political suicide, so it's a matter of how much of a Leave do Tory members want, do they trust May to deliver that or would they see her more careful approach, perhaps even accepting some FOM, as backtrackking on Brexit or a betrayal, and do they think Leadsome either excellent enough to delivery it instead, or at least better placed to do so despite her flaws.
I'm hoping the membership doesn't include too many wild eyed zealots who'd consider any watering down of FOM as heresy and any delay to Brexit as ideologically impure. I;m not optimistic..
I'm really having trouble telling what the Tories as a whole really want. The loudest Brexiters are anti-FOM, but a third of Tories were Remain (and more likely though not certain to be pro-FOM) and in places like Wiltshire, Tory bastions, the Leave vote was only 52-48, which doesn't seem the sort of passionate Leave that I associate with the anti-FOM crowd. And the most angrily anti-FOM I've heard have come from WWC voters and previous non-voters who are less likely to be Tory party members.
Actually I lived in Blackpool and Preston for many years, and was curious to know how these type of well integrated communities have changed from what I remember.
I cannot recall one comment that the Asians, the Pakistanis were coming here and undercutting our jobs. I don't remember anything about Bangladeshi plumbers, or Karachi mechanics working for less.
The Asians largely assimilated well because they found other opportunities...setting up niche businesses, restaurants, take aways, corner shops, taxis etc. Jobs that the WWC didn't want, or didn't have the skills in.
But the Eastern Europeans have come here and taken on the WWC classes in their trades and beaten them under the rules of neo-liberal capitalism. They work harder for less money.
Sometimes, away from the noise of political tribal loyalty, I come on here to discuss ideas.
And when you do you make some good points.
However I would dispute that the recent immigrants from various European counties have not integrated well. We see them every single day and the only way you would ever tell they were not born here is by their accents and the occasional lapse into their native language when speaking with their friends. I find them just as well integrated into their local communities as any second or third Asian immigrant. I am not even sure they get paid less. They are mostly doing living wage/minimum wage jobs and so I don't think there is any real difference if an employer is abiding by the law.
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
No. We are independent signatories to the EEA agreement. A number of countries have started as EFTA members and moved to being EU members without any change to their status in the EEA Agreement and no amendments.
If you look at the text of, for example, the Association Agreements signed with other countries outside the EEA they state that they are specifically between the EU and those countries. That does not apply in the case of the EEA agreement because it was a treaty between individual states. This allowed for states to move from EFTA to the EU without having to change the treaty. It applies equally in the other direction.
Except there's no Article 50 equivalent going from EFTA to the EU, which states that existing treaties lapse between the EU and the individual country.
However the legals aren't my main point. Britain is just not going to be an EEA member without EU agreement. It would be unworkable
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
Herefordshire is around 7% immigrant, mostly A8/A2 countries. We've had migrants coming over for the harvest for decades.
Most complaints are about entry-level jobs for native youngsters. When I was a grotty, spotty 16 year old going for a holiday job or weekend working, I was competing against other grotty, spotty Brits.
Now every garage, supermarket etc has a plethora of perky eastern european grads. Great for me, great for the employer. Not so great if you're trying to get your first job. It's not a huge issue though - just grumbling.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
I think May should simply try and build up as many MP votes as she can in each round to demonstrate that she is the overwhelming choice of the PLP. Hopefully Tory members in the country will learn the lesson from Labour that choosing a leader who isn't strongly endorsed by the party's PLP risks major problems for the future.
If May tries to game the result she risks being charged with sharp practice. She doesn't want to let Gove off the hook as, "Deceiver-in Chief".
I think you'll find that Gove is the choice of the PLP. The PCP however...
Read somewhere that some Remain Cabinet Ministers went to Italy for the weekend. Interesting, if true. I think it's where Theresa May goes for her holidays. Does she have a villa there? Very Polly Toynbee.
I know politics is totally brutal but I really can't get my head around what Gove did. He piggy-backed on Boris's popularity, as he knew he could never win VoteLeave without him, then stabs in the front. Interesting that Gisela Stuart hasn't said a word about the campaign.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
IIRC Leadsom and Osborne also don't get on
"Her key disadvantage is that she has never held a Cabinet role – though this is not down to lack of ability so much as it is down to George Osborne’s personal dislike of her following criticisms she made of the Chancellor in 2012. He bears grudges, and exacts revenge by slowing down the careers of people who have angered him."
Sky News doco on A Nation Divided is pretty good. Amazing how many people (particular on the Leave side) think it was a mistake holding the referendum
There was a MORI poll over the weekend that showed virtually nobody who voted LEAVE has got regrets?
Certainly not me.
Labour Leave was the right option for working class voters
These people weren't saying they regretted their decision, merely that the government shouldn't have held the referendum if it thought Leave a disaster.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument, regardless it is all hypothetical, we are not going back into the EU short of a LD majority government at the next election, the question is EEA or not now
Read somewhere that some Remain Cabinet Ministers went to Italy for the weekend. Interesting, if true. I think it's where Theresa May goes for her holidays. Does she have a villa there? Very Polly Toynbee.
I know politics is totally brutal but I really can't get my head around what Gove did. He piggy-backed on Boris's popularity, as he knew he could never win VoteLeave without him, then stabs in the front. Interesting that Gisela Stuart hasn't said a word about the campaign.
Maybe they are plotting with tyson to stop brexit.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument,
They were quite significantly for Remain - they'd only have to not turnout a little more to counteract any remain surge elsewhere, if it even existed, without falling to Leave themselves.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
Here's Hague's view (from today's unity article in the Telegraph). Seems reasonable to me.
"The idea that we can keep having referendums to see if voters have changed their minds is unrealistic, to say the least. They might very well change their minds from month to month, or year to year, as good or bad news comes in. They might, for instance, be pleased they’re leaving the EU in 2017, regret it in 2019 and be thrilled they’re doing so by 2021. That doesn’t mean we can change our national direction every two years as sentiment ebbs and flows."
I think May should simply try and build up as many MP votes as she can in each round to demonstrate that she is the overwhelming choice of the PLP. Hopefully Tory members in the country will learn the lesson from Labour that choosing a leader who isn't strongly endorsed by the party's PLP risks major problems for the future.
If May tries to game the result she risks being charged with sharp practice. She doesn't want to let Gove off the hook as, "Deceiver-in Chief".
I think you'll find that Gove is the choice of the PLP. The PCP however...
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
This is true, the point is if she's so talented she ought to be PM with almost zero serious political experience why have others not obviously amazingly talented such as Nicky Morgan got in the Cabinet before her.
Right now the question is how stridently for Leave they are - all the Tory candidates are committed to leaving now, no matter their stance before, because to not do so would be political suicide, so it's a matter of how much of a Leave do Tory members want, do they trust May to deliver that or would they see her more careful approach, perhaps even accepting some FOM, as backtrackking on Brexit or a betrayal, and do they think Leadsome either excellent enough to delivery it instead, or at least better placed to do so despite her flaws.
I'm hoping the membership doesn't include too many wild eyed zealots who'd consider any watering down of FOM as heresy and any delay to Brexit as ideologically impure. I;m not optimistic..
I'm really having trouble telling what the Tories as a whole really want. The loudest Brexiters are anti-FOM, but a third of Tories were Remain (and more likely though not certain to be pro-FOM) and in places like Wiltshire, Tory bastions, the Leave vote was only 52-48, which doesn't seem the sort of passionate Leave that I associate with the anti-FOM crowd. And the most angrily anti-FOM I've heard have come from WWC voters and previous non-voters who are less likely to be Tory party members.
About a quarter to a third of the country is anti FOM they come predominantly from wwc UKIP and Labour voters and some lower middle-class Tories
Here's Hague's view (from today's unity article in the Telegraph). Seems reasonable to me.
"The idea that we can keep having referendums to see if voters have changed their minds is unrealistic, to say the least. They might very well change their minds from month to month, or year to year, as good or bad news comes in. They might, for instance, be pleased they’re leaving the EU in 2017, regret it in 2019 and be thrilled they’re doing so by 2021. That doesn’t mean we can change our national direction every two years as sentiment ebbs and flows."
Makes a lot of sense, but how do you determine how often is ok to ask the question again? As with Sindy, even a few years is not enough for a majority it seems to want to ask if they were sure last time. Now, the pretext this time is the situation has changed fundamentally, and so only a similarly fundamental change could see us asked again on Brexit (and nothing foreseeable would likely merit it), but even that would be and is objected to. So when is an ok time to check with people again on such matters? Perhaps we should put rules on how frequent such asking can be when passing the acts that authorise the referenda.
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
No. We are independent signatories to the EEA agreement. A number of countries have started as EFTA members and moved to being EU members without any change to their status in the EEA Agreement and no amendments.
If you look at the text of, for example, the Association Agreements signed with other countries outside the EEA they state that they are specifically between the EU and those countries. That does not apply in the case of the EEA agreement because it was a treaty between individual states. This allowed for states to move from EFTA to the EU without having to change the treaty. It applies equally in the other direction.
I don't think there have been any countries that were in the EEA as part of EFTA that have moved to the EU, so that wouldn't apply, surely?
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
This is true, the point is if she's so talented she ought to be PM with almost zero serious political experience why have others not obviously amazingly talented such as Nicky Morgan got in the Cabinet before her.
Not besties with George and Dave
So she's not good at politics then, not able to forge a path or make a name for herself but for circumstance meaning she's the last credible Leaver standing. Well, she's lucky then, which is something.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument,
They were quite significantly for Remain - they'd only have to not turnout a little more to counteract any remain surge elsewhere, if it even existed, without falling to Leave themselves.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
NI in particular could vote leave if DUP voters all turned out and SF supporters no longer did for Remain but indeed no new referendum would take place short of a LD victory, that is why Farron is marketing himself as the voice of the 48%, however he will only add a few points onto the LD poll rating at best, he won't get anywhere near that total
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
I think complaining about Eastern European immigration is seen as the polite and "acceptable" way to complain about immigration overall.
Saying "all those blacks coming over here", or all those "Muslim or Pakistanis" sounds racist. but saying there's "too many Poles", or "too many people from Europe" sounds much less bigoted.
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
I think complaining about Eastern European immigration is seen as the polite and "acceptable" way to complain about immigration overall.
Saying "all those blacks coming over here", or all those "Muslim or Pakistanis" sounds racist. but saying there's "too many Poles", or "too many people from Europe" sounds much less bigoted.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument,
They were quite significantly for Remain - they'd only have to not turnout a little more to counteract any remain surge elsewhere, if it even existed, without falling to Leave themselves.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
NI in particular could vote leave if DUP voters all turned out and SF supporters no longer did for Remain but indeed no new referendum would take place short of a LD victory, that is why Farron is marketing himself as the voice of the 48%, however he will only add a few points onto the LD poll rating at best, he won't get anywhere near that total
No - I'm sure he believes rejoining would be best, but it's also about the only move he can make and getting even a small portion of those 48 to stick with the LDs would be an improvement. They've tried to pitch for the pro-EU vote before and the vote wasn't there to be pitched for, but grabbing attention now, while there is still some emotional pro-eu voices wandering where they should go, is a reasonable move.
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
I think complaining about Eastern European immigration is seen as the polite and "acceptable" way to complain about immigration overall.
Saying "all those blacks coming over here", or all those "Muslim or Pakistanis" sounds racist. but saying there's "too many Poles", or "too many people from Europe" sounds much less bigoted.
But one is a proxy for the other.
No, it's not.
Sean is in one of those moods where he says sinister and dark things just for, you know, because he can. He probably doesn't believe it. Tomorrow he will say something different
It's inconceivable that we could be a member of the EEA against the wishes of the EU. In any case our treaties with the EU lapse under Article 50. This presumably includes the EEA Treaty, although the article is vaguely worded, in general.
I don't see a mechanism for our removal as an EEA contracting party if we are EFTA members. I don't see the issue because the offer is going to come.
Our current EEA membership through the EU will lapse along with our other treaties with the EU under the Article 50 guillotine. We can't be part of the EEA unless we are a member of either the EU or EFTA. The question is whether we can be part of the EEA automatically through our new EFTA membership. I am sure not. Firstly because it would be unworkable for the UK to be in the EEA against the wishes of the EU. Secondly the EEA Treaty is updated every time a new member joins, requiring sign off from various EU bodies.
The EU may agree, of course. The point is, we can't be part of the EEA if they don't
We are an independent contracting party of the agreement. As I said I don't see any mechanism to remove us as a contracting party, however, it isn't going to make any difference since it will be offered.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
Not all have the same ambition though, so not a 100% fair comparison.
This is true, the point is if she's so talented she ought to be PM with almost zero serious political experience why have others not obviously amazingly talented such as Nicky Morgan got in the Cabinet before her.
Not besties with George and Dave
So she's not good at politics then, not able to forge a path or make a name for herself but for circumstance meaning she's the last credible Leaver standing. Well, she's lucky then, which is something.
What an idiotic sentiment from a member of the voting public.
@seant Your checklist Cousin marriage Female genital mutilation Mass organised racist gang rape of white girls Sharia law Terrorism Homophobia The Burqa
I agree with all those, and you can add political corruption too. Some of Pakistani's government ways, have sadly been transported here, as well as mass insurance scams, non compliance with health and safety and whatnot. I know personally of some Asian groups who have used our lax insurance rules as a licence to print number...they have access to a doctor and a lawyer particularly for RTA's.
To be honest, fuck knows what the answers are. I wish we could completely secularise our institutions...but that hasn't helped France. I think religion is just stupid.
Brexit, is not the answer because it is so obvious that just harms our economy in a global world and will marginalise us, and not tackle the issues at hand.
I might have a low IQ, but I got straight A's through O and A level, I was effortlessly top of the top stream in a grammar school throughout my education (1 in a 150) an MA Hons in Economics, and MA is Applied Soc Sciences, and MBA; I was grant funded for 2 PhD's..one in Economics at Cambridge, and one at Lancaster....but circumstances stopped me progressing. I advanced to the top of my profession very quickly.
Maybe that IQ test taken when I was an infant might not have been quite right, but I do have a terrible sense of direction, and am rubbish at compiling Ikea flat packs.
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
George Osborne didn't get on with her. She used to be on the Treasury Select Committee and pissed him off a few times.
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument,
They were quite significantly for Remain - they'd only have to not turnout a little more to counteract any remain surge elsewhere, if it even existed, without falling to Leave themselves.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
NI in particular could vote leave if DUP voters all turned out and SF supporters no longer did for Remain but indeed no new referendum would take place short of a LD victory, that is why Farron is marketing himself as the voice of the 48%, however he will only add a few points onto the LD poll rating at best, he won't get anywhere near that total
No - I'm sure he believes rejoining would be best, but it's also about the only move he can make and getting even a small portion of those 48 to stick with the LDs would be an improvement. They've tried to pitch for the pro-EU vote before and the vote wasn't there to be pitched for, but grabbing attention now, while there is still some emotional pro-eu voices wandering where they should go, is a reasonable move.
Indeed and LD voters overwhelmingly voted Remain so they have nothing to lose unlike Labour if it did the same
Critical for anyone languishing in the hopes of a second referendum
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers. b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Though if Scotland and NI both voted Leave that would kill the independence argument,
They were quite significantly for Remain - they'd only have to not turnout a little more to counteract any remain surge elsewhere, if it even existed, without falling to Leave themselves.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
NI in particular could vote leave if DUP voters all turned out and SF supporters no longer did for Remain but indeed no new referendum would take place short of a LD victory, that is why Farron is marketing himself as the voice of the 48%, however he will only add a few points onto the LD poll rating at best, he won't get anywhere near that total
No - I'm sure he believes rejoining would be best, but it's also about the only move he can make and getting even a small portion of those 48 to stick with the LDs would be an improvement. They've tried to pitch for the pro-EU vote before and the vote wasn't there to be pitched for, but grabbing attention now, while there is still some emotional pro-eu voices wandering where they should go, is a reasonable move.
Indeed and LD voters overwhelmingly voted Remain so they have nothing to lose unlike Labour if it did the same
There are 5 members of the same Parliamentary intake as Leadsom who sit round the Cabinet table. One has to ask why she is languishing as a junior minister. She clearly isn't that stellar a politician so one is forced to wonder what on earth she thinks she's playing at and more especially what those who are plumping for her think they are.
George Osborne didn't get on with her. She used to be on the Treasury Select Committee and pissed him off a few times.
I honestly can't say I've come across much anti-immigration talk that wasn't focused on eastern Europeans in particular. Cultural problems with other types of immigration seem to follow as an afterthought among those concerned by such things round my way.
I think complaining about Eastern European immigration is seen as the polite and "acceptable" way to complain about immigration overall.
Saying "all those blacks coming over here", or all those "Muslim or Pakistanis" sounds racist. but saying there's "too many Poles", or "too many people from Europe" sounds much less bigoted.
Here's Hague's view (from today's unity article in the Telegraph). Seems reasonable to me.
"The idea that we can keep having referendums to see if voters have changed their minds is unrealistic, to say the least. They might very well change their minds from month to month, or year to year, as good or bad news comes in. They might, for instance, be pleased they’re leaving the EU in 2017, regret it in 2019 and be thrilled they’re doing so by 2021. That doesn’t mean we can change our national direction every two years as sentiment ebbs and flows."
Whilst this is obviously true, it frankly underlines the reasons why many countries constitutions insist on super-majorities for the instigation of fundamental constitutional change.
Whilst Hague may be justified in arguing that repeated referendums are 'unrealistic', they would not be "illegitimate". If one is to argue against repeated referendums because any one referendum outcome may result in a change in national direction due to a short term change in sentiment, then one is entitled to ask why the first referendum is somehow any more representative of the settled will of the people. Certainly any new government elected before the change has been completed will (if they have stood on such a platform) be fully entitled to change course again (with or without a referendum).
One will notice how often people argue against politicians arguing against further votes because they will result in a voter backlash and likely reinforce the original decision. Well maybe they would, but the only way to test that is to actually hold a further vote. If the outcome were actually that the voters would change their minds on reflection then that is their decision and that would represent the new democratically reached decision.
Sky News doco on A Nation Divided is pretty good. Amazing how many people (particular on the Leave side) think it was a mistake holding the referendum
The polls don't reflect that though. It's almost as if they went out looking for people of that opinion...
There was a poll in the Evening Standard a few days back that said Remain would win "comfortably" if re-run.
But anyway, polls...
A re-run in Battersea ?
No it had it 45% to 40% Remain with 15% 'undecided' ie most of them voted Leave
The commentary from the pollster was that Remain would leave comfortably. You are making whopping assumptions. Anyway, it's a poll. We all know how useful they are...
Comments
Just google JCB Dancing Diggers to see some of the things they can do.
I don't think every Muslim person is to blame for my bad experiences. I just think there must be something slightly philosophically rotten going on that means one belief system seems to throw out all the people who try to throw up obstacles.
There are plenty of very conservative Christian people in this country who must be miffed at our family, but they don't seem to personally take any action, large or small, to make our life harder. Perhaps the issue is not just with mainstream Muslim attitudes to gay people, but also to how much of their religion society has allowed them to feel it is acceptable to burden other people with.
Our NHS doctor was always very friendly to us, until we asked for an adoption health assessment (which you legally need to get). It was hard to pin him down to get it, and he couldn't quite but help asking my not to go through with it in mine. I laughed about that when I got home but never dreamed it would affect the service he performed.
Unfortunately once we did adopt he went from being a helpful family doctor to never being available. All new parents need a doctor more than most but we had adopted a baby under 1 who had not enormous but significant health problems because of her circumstances coming into care. His sudden disinterest ranged cancelling appointments at the last minute to not examining her properly (couldn't wait to get us out the room) and prescribing the wring medicine for an infected rash.
In the end we had to switch GP, which was a mission in itself.
Ultimately I am guessing at his motives I suppose, which I why I never made a fuss about the gay thing when complaining, but I really do think it was at the heart of it all.
It's not just over here.
If Leadsom is anywhere near May with YouGov then she has to get Leadsom knocked out by tactical voting - because Leadsom has momentum.
But if Leadsom is nowhere with YouGov then maybe the situation isn't so serious.
I wouldn't worry about the tactical voting being "found out" - Cameron did it to eliminate Fox and nobody said anything. Members aren't in any position to do anything about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
I've got the hope that when fusion comes, it won't be something like ITER, but more something like the LM Skunkworks designs, or (hopefully) aneutronic, which has many advantages and one significant disadvantage.
But you're right, the article was excellent:
http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/07/iter-fusion-reactor-france-photos/
I think that awareness is slowly spreading, but unfortunately their proportion of the population is fixed.
I'd expect con members to be more pro Leave.
p.11
http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/sites/ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/files/vi_28_06_2016_v2.pdf
Well, more fun it would seem today. As I'm not a Conservative, I don't have a dog in the race to be the next Prime Minister. Theresa May has all the warmth of a chilly December night in Verkhoyansk while I don't think I've ever listened to Leadsom.
With the three men varying between Barking and completely Upminster, it's an unpalatable prospect but someone will have to make sense of all this.
Labour Leave was the right option for working class voters
So Leadsom as PM here we come... At what point will the Brexiteers ok here admit that things are not going as planned?
Commercial fusion won't come in my lifetime, but it'll be grand when it does.
Tuscany tyson watches 30 minute BBC program. Instantly diagnoses complex decadal socio-economic problems from comfort of own sofa. Crowd go wild. What a time to be alive!
@John M
Actually I lived in Blackpool and Preston for many years, and was curious to know how these type of well integrated communities have changed from what I remember.
I cannot recall one comment that the Asians, the Pakistanis were coming here and undercutting our jobs. I don't remember anything about Bangladeshi plumbers, or Karachi mechanics working for less.
The Asians largely assimilated well because they found other opportunities...setting up niche businesses, restaurants, take aways, corner shops, taxis etc. Jobs that the WWC didn't want, or didn't have the skills in.
But the Eastern Europeans have come here and taken on the WWC classes in their trades and beaten them under the rules of neo-liberal capitalism. They work harder for less money.
Sometimes, away from the noise of political tribal loyalty, I come on here to discuss ideas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-33808333
Peak net migration (i.e. highest year in the decade)
1970s: 6k.
1980s: 48k
1990s: 163k
2000s: 273k
2010s: 333k
Net migration has been above 200k for 11 of the last 12 years. Only half of that is EU migration. As I've said many times before, it's pace and scale first, the minutiae is just that: minutiae.
*edit* added Guardian link
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages
Scotland: 67% (Remain)
N.Ireland: 63% (Remain)
England: 73% (Leave)
Wales: 72%. (Leave)
http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2016/06/24/the-eu-referendum-the-welsh-verdict/
If you look at the text of, for example, the Association Agreements signed with other countries outside the EEA they state that they are specifically between the EU and those countries. That does not apply in the case of the EEA agreement because it was a treaty between individual states. This allowed for states to move from EFTA to the EU without having to change the treaty. It applies equally in the other direction.
The EU may agree, of course. The point is, we can't be part of the EEA if they don't
Italy is a wonderful country because I can take Trotsky everywhere. I can even wheel her around the supermarket, and she can sniff, snuffle and dare I say, offer a little lick, to any of the produce on offer.
The UK is such a dogist country.
a) The turnout in Eng and Wales could still rise, so new turnout might be more leavers not just remainers.
b) Nationalists in both NI and Scotland seeing their chance to make this an opportunity to split from the UK, will be even less inclined to turnout for Remain.
Per Crick she has 40 with 99 still to declare.
33.3% is 110.
So she would need 70 out of the remaining 99 (pre transfers).
With transfers from Fox (13) she would need 57 out of the remaining 99 (assuming no transfers from Crabb - but that's reasonable as we've given her 100% of Fox).
So she can't get anywhere near 110 whilst Gove is still in the race.
However I would dispute that the recent immigrants from various European counties have not integrated well. We see them every single day and the only way you would ever tell they were not born here is by their accents and the occasional lapse into their native language when speaking with their friends. I find them just as well integrated into their local communities as any second or third Asian immigrant. I am not even sure they get paid less. They are mostly doing living wage/minimum wage jobs and so I don't think there is any real difference if an employer is abiding by the law.
However the legals aren't my main point. Britain is just not going to be an EEA member without EU agreement. It would be unworkable
Most complaints are about entry-level jobs for native youngsters. When I was a grotty, spotty 16 year old going for a holiday job or weekend working, I was competing against other grotty, spotty Brits.
Now every garage, supermarket etc has a plethora of perky eastern european grads. Great for me, great for the employer. Not so great if you're trying to get your first job. It's not a huge issue though - just grumbling.
I know politics is totally brutal but I really can't get my head around what Gove did. He piggy-backed on Boris's popularity, as he knew he could never win VoteLeave without him, then stabs in the front. Interesting that Gisela Stuart hasn't said a word about the campaign.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/andrea-leadsom-overtakes-michael-gove-become-second-favourite-tory-race/
Another good thing about a Leadsom win would be the departure of Mr Osborne.
But as you say, at present only a LD majority would get us back in, and even that wouldn't be certain.
"The idea that we can keep having referendums to see if voters have changed their minds is unrealistic, to say the least. They might very well change their minds from month to month, or year to year, as good or bad news comes in. They might, for instance, be pleased they’re leaving the EU in 2017, regret it in 2019 and be thrilled they’re doing so by 2021. That doesn’t mean we can change our national direction every two years as sentiment ebbs and flows."
But anyway, polls...
The calls were pure opportunism from Sinn Fein and they've already piped down within a week. Why? Because the leadership said so.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/750071882301472768
Your checklist
Cousin marriage
Female genital mutilation
Mass organised racist gang rape of white girls
Sharia law
Terrorism
Homophobia
The Burqa
I agree with all those, and you can add political corruption too. Some of Pakistani's government ways, have sadly been transported here, as well as mass insurance scams, non compliance with health and safety and whatnot. I know personally of some Asian groups who have used our lax insurance rules as a licence to print number...they have access to a doctor and a lawyer particularly for RTA's.
To be honest, fuck knows what the answers are. I wish we could completely secularise our institutions...but that hasn't helped France. I think religion is just stupid.
Brexit, is not the answer because it is so obvious that just harms our economy in a global world and will marginalise us, and not tackle the issues at hand.
I might have a low IQ, but I got straight A's through O and A level, I was effortlessly top of the top stream in a grammar school throughout my education (1 in a 150) an MA Hons in Economics, and MA is Applied Soc Sciences, and MBA; I was grant funded for 2 PhD's..one in Economics at Cambridge, and one at Lancaster....but circumstances stopped me progressing. I advanced to the top of my profession very quickly.
Maybe that IQ test taken when I was an infant might not have been quite right, but I do have a terrible sense of direction, and am rubbish at compiling Ikea flat packs.
Labour 63-37
I think. Not that much in it?
Whilst Hague may be justified in arguing that repeated referendums are 'unrealistic', they would not be "illegitimate". If one is to argue against repeated referendums because any one referendum outcome may result in a change in national direction due to a short term change in sentiment, then one is entitled to ask why the first referendum is somehow any more representative of the settled will of the people. Certainly any new government elected before the change has been completed will (if they have stood on such a platform) be fully entitled to change course again (with or without a referendum).
One will notice how often people argue against politicians arguing against further votes because they will result in a voter backlash and likely reinforce the original decision. Well maybe they would, but the only way to test that is to actually hold a further vote. If the outcome were actually that the voters would change their minds on reflection then that is their decision and that would represent the new democratically reached decision.