I noticed this in a Charles Moore column in the Telegraph:
' When I reached the Vote Leave offices, I found a room full of empty bottles and joyful young faces. I was particularly struck by a red-headed, intellectual-looking man who, I heard, is 22 years old. His name is Richard Howell, and he is such an expert on EU law that Cabinet ministers during the campaign stood silent while he explained it all to them. '
Now there was a PBer called Richard Howell (whom I believed later changed his PB name) who was VERY knowledgeable about legal issues.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Raising the personal allowance was one of the best policies enacted by the coalition and a Lib Dem idea. Absolubtely no credit for it in GE2015, but it was an excellent policy.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
IMO the Lib Dems problem was that they gained a large number of voters post-Iraq from Labour. They made the mistake of assuming that these voters were Lib Dems. They were not; they were Labour on holiday, and it did not take much for them to go back home (or on another holiday).
What Farron needs to do is sell Liberal Democrat ideals. I think there're lots of takers if they sell it right.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
I agree with most of that – the Coalition did some great things together IMHO.
Well now we don't need to worry about the EU competition law any more - why not save the £30,000,000 on the competition for mini nuclear power stations and just form a joint company with RR to start building them. Based on the astute submarine design I expect with no refuelling for its life time.
Are we now living the end of western political civilisation, as predicted by the President of the EU Council, Tusk if we voted to LEAVE the EU?
Hopefully just Suez on Steroids. If the kneecapping we're about to get from the Franco/German and US deep states is brutal enough noone else will be made enough to pull a Brexit type stunt. The centre will hold.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Well there definitely is a huge vacuum to be filled by a third party.
Unfortunately for the Libs, they are no longer a third party.
Lib Dems got nearly three times the votes of the SNP at the general election and under proportional representation would have 50 MPs.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
@paulwaugh: It's war, now. If Corbyn wins 2nd mandate, mandatory reselection of MPs, recall + more power for members all planned https://t.co/NhvzFccCw3
Sounds great.
How could any supporter of democracy not like that.
Lab splitters not so much!
Bravado, if Corbyn wins again it's going to be a very hollow victory, it will be all over for Labour for decades if not for ever, matters little whether they split or not.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Raising the personal allowance was one of the best policies enacted by the coalition and a Lib Dem idea. Absolubtely no credit for it in GE2015, but it was an excellent policy.
Of course there wasn’t. Dave was only interested in screwing the LD’s to get a majority. There’s no gratitude in poilitics, but Dave takes the biscuit. If he goes down in history as taking the prize for the worst PM from Lord North I shall look down from wherever and laugh. Or of course up. But I shall still find that to smile about!!
Even now, the Labour party hasn't got a clue how to get rid of its leader.
Haven't they watched from over the fence how ruthless the Tories are in this regard....
Apparently, the assumption has always been that a leader who lost a vote of confidence among MPs would step down and so it was never codified. Obviously, that would normally be the case. But Corbyn plays by different rules.
Oh, and perhaps as a sign of my mental infirmity at the moment, I'm seriously considering joining the LibDems. I considered joining either the Lib Dems or Conservatives after the last GE, but am now leaning heavily towards the LDs.
We need an effective opposition in England and Wales, and Labour's too busy opposing itself atm.
Didn't think I'd ever say this but I am pondering the same but from the ex-Labour direction. I will rejoin for £3 to vote for the next leader but if Corbyn prevails then I'm off.
I can only hope the Lib Dems are a broad church.
I've just this minute joined the Lib Dems. I've not been politically active before, but the referendum and this site have given me the kick up the arse that I was waiting for. I wonder what's in the welcome pack?
I suggest you visit Liberal Democrat Voice ( http://www.libdemvoice.org/) from time to time as well as PB of course.
Of the 10 LEAVERS I've spoken to in the last few days, since the vote, at least half are now having serious second thoughts. This ranges from my Dad's Cornish cleaner to posho London journos.
It's purely anecdotal, I know, but I reckon if a revote was held now it could be a simple switch: 52:48 win for REMAIN.
And this is before the economic flames now beginning to lick around London become remotely perceptible to most Britons out there, where it seems like nothing has changed.
In two or three months, IF this contagion spreads, then REMAIN could be 60/40 in public opinion and LEAVE politicians will be howlingly unpopular
I don't want this to happen, but you can see how, if it does happen, all of our politics will be upended. Boris could be hated.
And we'd lose all Cameron's concessions, and probably be back in a much worse position wrt the EU than we were last year.
The voters have voted. We should be fully out.
If we got for EEA/EFTA many people will be very, very unhappy. Perhaps even violence-on-the-streets-of-London unhappy. That's what Leave sold them.
I hope you watch her speech today. It was quietly sensational.
Apart from the end bit, it was loudly sensational.
Did they bluster and shout and abstain as usual
I'd seriously recommend you watch it malc. Prior to the speech I had no idea what SLab's position was - the speech laid out the Slab position clearly, calmly and with great precision . The range and limits of their support for the First Minister were clearly delineated an then it finished with a passionate, heartfelt but controlled complete an utter kicking of Ruth Davidson.
I felt a little sorry for Davidson at the end of it. She was destroyed.
Considering most of our politicians are behaving like idiots that does rather nail the were all doomed meme.
Dead Cat Bounce?
Look, I don't want to be the sad, ranting Cassandra in the corner, but day to day movements in the market are nothing compared to the mood music of companies not investing and banks relocating and big infrastructure projects cancelled and all the rest.
It's like looking at the tea leaves, to see your future, when the tea room is possibly burning down.
It's happening in my (ex-) industry. People are really worried for their jobs, including Mrs J. One small startup has had some funding withdrawn yesterday (although there's always the possibility that might have happened anyway).
Confidence is low; no wonder when there have been staff and friends crying because they feel unwelcome.
And n pathetic safe-area cries of 'Wacist!' can change that.
I went into the office today for the first time since Thursday and found people very worried about their jobs. And this is in a company that should not (I hope!) be that vulnerable.
When people are pessimistic it affects their economic behaviour, they put off changing the car, they decide not to move house etc etc. If that perception is widespread the economy will be deeply in recession well before we ever get close to actually Brexiting.
Mr. JS, Corbyn can survive. Not sure about Labour, though.
Mr Morris If Corbyn goes back to the membership, and they confirm him, what on earth happens then?
Progress Labour buggers off and at least 15 years of Tory Governments ensues as left vote is split between Labour and progress Labour until progress Labour gives it up as a bad job
Looking on the bright side at least we get to find out who was most out of touch with WWC,
I think Progress Lab are in for a shock but we will see.
Maybe the Members will back down
Yep - I think we can all see the working class flocking to support Corbyn Labour's pro open door immigration, pro-IRA, pro-Hamas platform. When you are living in a dump and not earning enough to warm your house in winter solidarity with the Palestinians is what keeps you going.
Labour splitters have faired worse in the past.
When Lab splits which I now see as very likely.
We will find our if Lab or SDP 2 proves most popular.
You up for a bet when that point is reached?
Again, the irony is that an SDP v2 would be based exactly on the principles behind the "Remain" campaign -- the campaign that just got hammered by the voters.
For all the Labour moderates' asserting (without evidence) that they know how to win elections, their mixture of economic conservatism/cultural liberalism has never been less popular with the country.
Remain did win 16m+ votes, which is more than any party has ever done. Now, granted, a lot of it might have been grudging support but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Of the 10 LEAVERS I've spoken to in the last few days, since the vote, at least half are now having serious second thoughts. This ranges from my Dad's Cornish cleaner to posho London journos.
It's purely anecdotal, I know, but I reckon if a revote was held now it could be a simple switch: 52:48 win for REMAIN.
And this is before the economic flames now beginning to lick around London become remotely perceptible to most Britons out there, where it seems like nothing has changed.
In two or three months, IF this contagion spreads, then REMAIN could be 60/40 in public opinion and LEAVE politicians will be howlingly unpopular
I don't want this to happen, but you can see how, if it does happen, all of our politics will be upended. Boris could be hated.
Nearly 4 million have signed the petition calling for a second referendum.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Raising the personal allowance was one of the best policies enacted by the coalition and a Lib Dem idea. Absolubtely no credit for it in GE2015, but it was an excellent policy.
I agree but I wonder if that has run its course. The benefits of raising the PA is obviously beneficial to the individual albeit by only a relatively small amount but from a wider perspective it is very very expensive. The Lib Dems policy was that you reduce taxes for the lower paid at the expense of higher taxes further up the food-chain. That still has merit.
What the Tories have done is to do both - to pay for it we now have the sorts of cuts to public services that have largely destroyed many urban areas in the North. We simply cannot go on cutting taxes AND protecting public services.
As a parent of a youngster at college I fail to see the benefit to me in financial terms of receiving £200 a year in tax savings if my local authority, as a result of cuts to local authority grants, raise the student bus pass by 50% to nearly £700.
@DPJHodges: Told "definitely not true" it's been decided Angela Eagle will be the one to run against Corbyn.
CRIED OFF
John do you acknowledge that there are people in the labour party who are neither Corbynites nor right-wing Blairites?
Of course. I think Burnhams level of support in last leadership election probably falls into that category
I wish I had the luxury of being able to support Corbyn but I would like us to win an election among the general public and that is never, ever going to happen with him as leader. And if the Tories keep winning your pension will be protected but my generation won't be.
Ed Miliband was too left wing and laughed at for saying New Labour didn't overspend. Wait 'til we go into a GE with a leader who thinks New Labour didn't spend enough.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Sorry, you didn't just do 'not a bad job', you did a great job in government. The country owes the LD party a huge degree of respect for that. Being a minority partner in your non-preferred coalition, and carrying that government to the full term was an incredible achievement.
Whatever the LD ills everyone in the party should really hold their heads up high in that they did something difficult and unprecedented - and moreover did it well.
I'm not likely to vote LD (but please persuade me), and I think Farron is rather poor, but I will always hold your party in the greatest esteem in that you showed yourselves capable of making an enormously brave choice, and delivering on that choice.
Oh, and perhaps as a sign of my mental infirmity at the moment, I'm seriously considering joining the LibDems. I considered joining either the Lib Dems or Conservatives after the last GE, but am now leaning heavily towards the LDs.
We need an effective opposition in England and Wales, and Labour's too busy opposing itself atm.
Didn't think I'd ever say this but I am pondering the same but from the ex-Labour direction. I will rejoin for £3 to vote for the next leader but if Corbyn prevails then I'm off.
I can only hope the Lib Dems are a broad church.
I've just this minute joined the Lib Dems. I've not been politically active before, but the referendum and this site have given me the kick up the arse that I was waiting for. I wonder what's in the welcome pack?
I suggest you visit Liberal Democrat Voice ( http://www.libdemvoice.org/) from time to time as well as PB of course.
I've already had a nose around there. Thanks though!
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
Speaking of the Great Central, there is now no rail service north of Aylesbury Vale (save for Quainton Road specials in May and August Bank Holidays), and no direct connection between Rugby and Leicester.
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
Is it really anything to do with the EU or is blaming that just straw-catching?
There is another VERY good reason to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn. Frankly this is not a time for kneejerk opposition on everything the Government does. Labour will want to play a part in the Brexit negotiations and that means they will to some extent need to be constructive and encourage the Government to request their input into the negotiations. As much as the Government they will need to have a Brexit stance - what they want to see and what they don't. Does anyone think that Corbyn is the man for that, a man who quite possibly still doesn't know if he is pleased or not with the outcome of the vote?
I've been thinking about what a Theresa May Cabinet could look like, this is what I've come up with, it is a WIP and I'm only listing the significant portfolios:
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Carolyn McCall told Channel 4 News that it “remains to be seen” whether the budget carrier would keep its HQ at Luton airport, where it has been based since it was founded in 1995.
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
Do you have a link for that? On C4 News about 10 mins ago the CEO actually said they had no such plans when asked.
It's just a rumour at the moment, Easyjet have not decided anything
There are plenty of real cases of frozen investment and postponed purchases, without having to make shit up
On June 11th EasyJet said they would not move their HQ even in the event of Brexit but would perhaps have to set up a separate European operation because of the need for a separate Air Operators Certificate.
It is something RyanAir already do and they have three separate AOCs based in the UK, Ireland and Spain.
I've been thinking about what a Theresa May Cabinet could look like, this is what I've come up with, it is a WIP and I'm only listing the significant portfolios:
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
DWP - Crabb, no need for a change.
Health - Hunt, again, no need for a change.
DfID - Morgan, gets her out of Education
You don't believe in anthropogenic climate change?
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
We're spending (from memory) £30-odd billion on the conventional existing network over the current control period (CP6?) of five years. There are ever-decreasing returns, as we saw with the WCML upgrade, which delivered less than promised (e.g. 125 MPH instead of 140 MPH) was years late (with the consequent hassle for passengers) and cost about ten times the predicted price.
And that's leaving aside the fact that politicians rarely if ever spend the money saved on cancelling/ reducing a project on related projects; they just grab it back.
As for the line speed: I'm fairly agnostic about that. It is covered in the report(s), and there reasoning seemed sensible. I could be convinced.
But as I've said passim, Euston's the real problem. It's currently a run-down hole; it'll be a money pit for HS2.
Are we now living the end of western political civilisation, as predicted by the President of the EU Council, Tusk if we voted to LEAVE the EU?
Hopefully just Suez on Steroids. If the kneecapping we're about to get from the Franco/German and US deep states is brutal enough noone else will be made enough to pull a Brexit type stunt. The centre will hold.
Carolyn McCall told Channel 4 News that it “remains to be seen” whether the budget carrier would keep its HQ at Luton airport, where it has been based since it was founded in 1995.
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
If we lose access to Open Skies they'll be gone. AF-KLM, Alitalia and various legacy airlines would, I suspect, love a return to bilaterals. Still, one to negotiate I guess. I'm no expert on aircraft and airlines though. Oh sorry, yes I am.
Yep - I think we can all see the working class flocking to support Corbyn Labour's pro open door immigration, pro-IRA, pro-Hamas platform. When you are living in a dump and not earning enough to warm your house in winter solidarity with the Palestinians is what keeps you going.
Labour splitters have faired worse in the past.
When Lab splits which I now see as very likely.
We will find our if Lab or SDP 2 proves most popular.
You up for a bet when that point is reached?
Again, the irony is that an SDP v2 would be based exactly on the principles behind the "Remain" campaign -- the campaign that just got hammered by the voters.
For all the Labour moderates' asserting (without evidence) that they know how to win elections, their mixture of economic conservatism/cultural liberalism has never been less popular with the country.
Remain did win 16m+ votes, which is more than any party has ever done. Now, granted, a lot of it might have been grudging support but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Of the 10 LEAVERS I've spoken to in the last few days, since the vote, at least half are now having serious second thoughts. This ranges from my Dad's Cornish cleaner to posho London journos.
It's purely anecdotal, I know, but I reckon if a revote was held now it could be a simple switch: 52:48 win for REMAIN.
And this is before the economic flames now beginning to lick around London become remotely perceptible to most Britons out there, where it seems like nothing has changed.
In two or three months, IF this contagion spreads, then REMAIN could be 60/40 in public opinion and LEAVE politicians will be howlingly unpopular
I don't want this to happen, but you can see how, if it does happen, all of our politics will be upended. Boris could be hated.
Whereas everyone I know who voted Leave are even more convinced that it was the right thing to do and this stretches from the factory floor to director level.
Do you really think anyone in the midlands or North or Wales is going to do anything other than laugh about a risk to London property prices or City bonuses ?
I've been thinking about what a Theresa May Cabinet could look like, this is what I've come up with, it is a WIP and I'm only listing the significant portfolios:
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
DWP - Crabb, no need for a change.
Health - Hunt, again, no need for a change.
DfID - Morgan, gets her out of Education
You don't believe in anthropogenic climate change?
I believe the climate is changing, I also believe that this country has done more than its fair share of emissions reductions. Our per capita emissions are lower than pre-industrialisation now. We can't be asked for more than that since it has cost us our heavy industry.
Guy Verhofstadt: No big obstacle to an independent Scotland joining the EU before Brexit.
No big obstacle to an independent Flanders joining England imo.
Don't know why anyone's suddenly got the idea that an Independent Scotland can be delivered in a timescale before Brexit. Sindy takes a bit more time than just a referendum vote. And frankly it would be ridiculous to have a scenario where both were being negotiated simultaneously given that one will input significantly on the other.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Raising the personal allowance was one of the best policies enacted by the coalition and a Lib Dem idea. Absolubtely no credit for it in GE2015, but it was an excellent policy.
I agree but I wonder if that has run its course. The benefits of raising the PA is obviously beneficial to the individual albeit by only a relatively small amount but from a wider perspective it is very very expensive. The Lib Dems policy was that you reduce taxes for the lower paid at the expense of higher taxes further up the food-chain. That still has merit.
What the Tories have done is to do both - to pay for it we now have the sorts of cuts to public services that have largely destroyed many urban areas in the North. We simply cannot go on cutting taxes AND protecting public services.
As a parent of a youngster at college I fail to see the benefit to me in financial terms of receiving £200 a year in tax savings if my local authority, as a result of cuts to local authority grants, raise the student bus pass by 50% to nearly £700.
I'm not a politician and as ever its a tricky judgement. Certainly a reckless gamble on the economy with Brexit is something the Lib Dems wisely would never have done.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
Not quite. The system smashed the SDP electorally. This is up there with “Dave defeated Labour” when in fact the Tories lost seat to Labour. Nett.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
Yes, I acknowledge Labour voters are extremely keen on an open door immigration policy, while being very pro-IRA and pro-Hamas, and intensely anti-Trident. They are also utterly disdainful of patriotism. Alongside Corbyn himself, I'd say that Emily Thornberry is most in touch with ordinary Labour voters - as she has proved time and again.
Guy Verhofstadt: No big obstacle to an independent Scotland joining the EU before Brexit.
No big obstacle to an independent Flanders joining England imo.
Don't know why anyone's suddenly got the idea that an Independent Scotland can be delivered in a timescale before Brexit. Sindy takes a bit more time than just a referendum vote. And frankly it would be ridiculous to have a scenario where both were being negotiated simultaneously given that one will input significantly on the other.
Then we'll have to postpone any Brexit discussions until after Sindy is done and dusted, or go back on the whole idea.
Carolyn McCall told Channel 4 News that it “remains to be seen” whether the budget carrier would keep its HQ at Luton airport, where it has been based since it was founded in 1995.
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
No one is going to talk about moving until they know what the government is going to seek. If it is EFTA/EEA then no one is going to bother leaving since we'd be in the single market (as well as Horizon 2020, the single European sky and retain the financial passport).
"Natalie Bennett calls for General Election in November to deliver a people's government
Green Party leader Natalie Bennett has called for a General Election in November to select a Government to lead Britain into a decision on its future relationship with the European Union. The leader of the Green Party, who campaigned for Britain to remain a member of the EU, is calling for a period of calm and reflection."
I am rapidly developing the opinion that the only thing that the Remainder crowd fear more than being right about all the post-Brexit doom and gloom is being wrong about it.
Guy Verhofstadt: No big obstacle to an independent Scotland joining the EU before Brexit.
No big obstacle to an independent Flanders joining England imo.
Don't know why anyone's suddenly got the idea that an Independent Scotland can be delivered in a timescale before Brexit. Sindy takes a bit more time than just a referendum vote. And frankly it would be ridiculous to have a scenario where both were being negotiated simultaneously given that one will input significantly on the other.
Maybe Scotland can be given to the EU as a token of peace in the negotiations.
Carolyn McCall told Channel 4 News that it “remains to be seen” whether the budget carrier would keep its HQ at Luton airport, where it has been based since it was founded in 1995.
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
No one is going to talk about moving until they know what the government is going to seek. If it is EFTA/EEA then no one is going to bother leaving since we'd be in the single market (as well as Horizon 2020, the single European sky and retain the financial passport).
They are all going to talk about it so that they get what they want.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
Not quite. The system smashed the SDP electorally. This is up there with “Dave defeated Labour” when in fact the Tories lost seat to Labour. Nett.
But unfortunately they lost tons of seats to the SNP - net!
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
Speaking of the Great Central, there is now no rail service north of Aylesbury Vale (save for Quainton Road specials in May and August Bank Holidays), and no direct connection between Rugby and Leicester.
It's a terrible shame they destroyed the route through Leicester and Nottingham. Some say it was deliberate, and it was certainly with indecent haste. Although ISTR the Victoria Centre in Nottingham has room underneath for a two-line rail route. So it's a shame the rest of the route in the area's been obliterated.
But the problem with the old GCR route was that it used existing routes into London, which are quite busy to this day.
Fully Out in one wrench could take 5-10% off our economy. Senseless. The vote from the people was LEAVE, it wasn't END ALL IMMIGRATION AND SCREW TRADE AS WELL
It kinda was though.
Remain said it would screw trade, and leave said it would end all immigration.
@DPJHodges: Told "definitely not true" it's been decided Angela Eagle will be the one to run against Corbyn.
CRIED OFF
John do you acknowledge that there are people in the labour party who are neither Corbynites nor right-wing Blairites?
Of course. I think Burnhams level of support in last leadership election probably falls into that category
I wish I had the luxury of being able to support Corbyn but I would like us to win an election among the general public and that is never, ever going to happen with him as leader. And if the Tories keep winning your pension will be protected but my generation won't be.
Ed Miliband was too left wing and laughed at for saying New Labour didn't overspend. Wait 'til we go into a GE with a leader who thinks New Labour didn't spend enough.
You are entitled to your opinion.
if you think Ed was too left wing
Perhaps you could outline which of his policies was too left wing for you
Guy Verhofstadt: No big obstacle to an independent Scotland joining the EU before Brexit.
No big obstacle to an independent Flanders joining England imo.
Don't know why anyone's suddenly got the idea that an Independent Scotland can be delivered in a timescale before Brexit. Sindy takes a bit more time than just a referendum vote. And frankly it would be ridiculous to have a scenario where both were being negotiated simultaneously given that one will input significantly on the other.
Then we'll have to postpone any Brexit discussions until after Sindy is done and dusted, or go back on the whole idea.
Why?
There is absolutely no need to wait on Scotland before negotiating Brexit. We can very easily go ahead and let Scotland make their own decision based on the circumstances at the time.
I've been thinking about what a Theresa May Cabinet could look like, this is what I've come up with, it is a WIP and I'm only listing the significant portfolios:
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
DWP - Crabb, no need for a change.
Health - Hunt, again, no need for a change.
DfID - Morgan, gets her out of Education
You don't believe in anthropogenic climate change?
I believe the climate is changing, I also believe that this country has done more than its fair share of emissions reductions. Our per capita emissions are lower than pre-industrialisation now. We can't be asked for more than that since it has cost us our heavy industry.
That sounds astonishingly unlikely. Do you have a link for that?
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
Not quite. The system smashed the SDP electorally. This is up there with “Dave defeated Labour” when in fact the Tories lost seat to Labour. Nett.
But unfortunately they lost tons of seats to the SNP - net!
Absolutely true. But that was in spite of Dave, not because of him.
I don't think there is any doubt at all that the Labour membership would rather have a Tory government than a Labour one led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, they would prefer a Tory government. That is their prerogative, but hopefully as the party withers and dies some of them at least may reflect on just how badly they have let down the people that labour came into being to represent. I doubt it though. They will be self-righteous and selfish tot he very end.
The only problem with your argument is LAB PLP is more out of touch with LAB voters than Corbyn.
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
Not quite. The system smashed the SDP electorally. This is up there with “Dave defeated Labour” when in fact the Tories lost seat to Labour. Nett.
There is a huge Remain demo in London which does not have anything like the police numbers necessary from the pictures on C4. Many thousands of people, perhaps three dozen cops who are not wearing riot gear.
Apparently it was cancelled due to lack of police but people have turned up anyway. There could be an interesting night in central London.
Yep - I think we can all see the working class flocking to support Corbyn Labour's pro open door immigration, pro-IRA, pro-Hamas platform. When you are living in a dump and not earning enough to warm your house in winter solidarity with the Palestinians is what keeps you going.
Labour splitters have faired worse in the past.
When Lab splits which I now see as very likely.
We will find our if Lab or SDP 2 proves most popular.
You up for a bet when that point is reached?
Again, the irony is that an SDP v2 would be based exactly on the principles behind the "Remain" campaign -- the campaign that just got hammered by the voters.
For all the Labour moderates' asserting (without evidence) that they know how to win elections, their mixture of economic conservatism/cultural liberalism has never been less popular with the country.
Remain did win 16m+ votes, which is more than any party has ever done. Now, granted, a lot of it might have been grudging support but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Of the 10 LEAVERS I've spoken to in the last few days, since the vote, at least half are now having serious second thoughts. This ranges from my Dad's Cornish cleaner to posho London journos.
It's purely anecdotal, I know, but I reckon if a revote was held now it could be a simple switch: 52:48 win for REMAIN.
And this is before the economic flames now beginning to lick around London become remotely perceptible to most Britons out there, where it seems like nothing has changed.
In two or three months, IF this contagion spreads, then REMAIN could be 60/40 in public opinion and LEAVE politicians will be howlingly unpopular
I don't want this to happen, but you can see how, if it does happen, all of our politics will be upended. Boris could be hated.
Whereas everyone I know who voted Leave are even more convinced that it was the right thing to do and this stretches from the factory floor to director level.
Do you really think anyone in the midlands or North or Wales is going to do anything other than laugh about a risk to London property prices or City bonuses ?
Not to mention people who voted Remain, unenthusiastically, but now take the view we should make the best of Brexit.
Carolyn McCall told Channel 4 News that it “remains to be seen” whether the budget carrier would keep its HQ at Luton airport, where it has been based since it was founded in 1995.
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
No one is going to talk about moving until they know what the government is going to seek. If it is EFTA/EEA then no one is going to bother leaving since we'd be in the single market (as well as Horizon 2020, the single European sky and retain the financial passport).
They are all going to talk about it so that they get what they want.
Yes, sorry. That's what I meant. Look at what HSBC achieved in reducing the bank levy with their protracted HQ investigation.
I am rapidly developing the opinion that the only thing that the Remainder crowd fear more than being right about all the post-Brexit doom and gloom is being wrong about it.
I'm sure that that is the big fear in EU circles as well, not that Brexit will cause chaos, but that it works and others follow our lead.
Fully Out in one wrench could take 5-10% off our economy. Senseless. The vote from the people was LEAVE, it wasn't END ALL IMMIGRATION AND SCREW TRADE AS WELL
It kinda was though.
Remain said it would screw trade, and leave said it would end all immigration.
And people voted for it. Lots of them
The people who voted out are much more likely to be economically inactive. They can cope with screwing trade a lot more thanthose of working age.
The Liberal Democrat President, Sal Brinton, said:
Labour are imploding. Whilst Corbyn’s MPs have voted for him to leave and for them to take control, he plans to limp on.
With every day that passes this internal chaos hurts the most vulnerable, the poorest and those who are voiceless. The Liberal Democrats will continue to work to fill the vacuum and hold this government to account.
no laughing at the back...
Snigger ye not - Liberal Democrats are a mighty resilient bunch They've been here before and didn't do a bad job in government with the Tories. In fact many of the legacies that Cameron can look back to were Lib Dem policies
Sorry, you didn't just do 'not a bad job', you did a great job in government. The country owes the LD party a huge degree of respect for that. Being a minority partner in your non-preferred coalition, and carrying that government to the full term was an incredible achievement.
Whatever the LD ills everyone in the party should really hold their heads up high in that they did something difficult and unprecedented - and moreover did it well.
I'm not likely to vote LD (but please persuade me), and I think Farron is rather poor, but I will always hold your party in the greatest esteem in that you showed yourselves capable of making an enormously brave choice, and delivering on that choice.
Tim Farron comes across as lightweight on the national picture but he is a phenomenal campaigner. You only have to look at what he has done in his own constituency to see what he has achieved and you see why he is highly regarded by the grass-roots. His style of community politics is re-building the party from the bottom up "Pick a ward - and win it". We've done it three times in this area of rural Dorset and won three district council by-elections from the Tories.
I picked up a converstion on the Lib Dem Twitter feed this morning where someone had tweeted a criticism of the EU policy - the first respondent was Tim himself engaging with the guy and asking him to contact him personally...that makes a difference.
I would like to see Norman Lamb take a more prominent role nationally and I think the spotlight on big problems building up in the social care sector will boost his profile and it was good to see Nick Clegg find his voice again in recent times.
Things are looking up certainly - 24 new members for our local party in a week. All will get a visit over the weekend and that's how the party will rebuild itself.
I've been thinking about what a Theresa May Cabinet could look like, this is what I've come up with, it is a WIP and I'm only listing the significant portfolios:
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
DWP - Crabb, no need for a change.
Health - Hunt, again, no need for a change.
DfID - Morgan, gets her out of Education
You don't believe in anthropogenic climate change?
I believe the climate is changing, I also believe that this country has done more than its fair share of emissions reductions. Our per capita emissions are lower than pre-industrialisation now. We can't be asked for more than that since it has cost us our heavy industry.
That sounds astonishingly unlikely. Do you have a link for that?
I saw a picture on here iirc, I'll try and dig it up.
I am rapidly developing the opinion that the only thing that the Remainder crowd fear more than being right about all the post-Brexit doom and gloom is being wrong about it.
Richard, I eventually voted remain, and I said on Friday I accept the result of the vote. So did others on here.
But you can't just wave away the real effects the vote is already having. I'm seeing it with my own eyes.
A friend - a well-paid and well-integrated immigrant - says she had a nightmare of someone setting fire to her house. It's never happened before, and it's a direct result of the tone of the leave debate. An overreaction? Perhaps. But it's real.
There is a huge Remain demo in London which does not have anything like the police numbers necessary from the pictures on C4. Many thousands of people, perhaps three dozen cops who are not wearing riot gear.
Apparently it was cancelled due to lack of police but people have turned up anyway. There could be an interesting night in central London.
Up to a third of voters have signed the petition calling for another referendum in some London constituencies like Hornsey & Wood Green and Hackney North & Stoke Newington.
Of the 10 LEAVERS I've spoken to in the last few days, since the vote, at least half are now having serious second thoughts. This ranges from my Dad's Cornish cleaner to posho London journos.
It's purely anecdotal, I know, but I reckon if a revote was held now it could be a simple switch: 52:48 win for REMAIN.
And this is before the economic flames now beginning to lick around London become remotely perceptible to most Britons out there, where it seems like nothing has changed.
In two or three months, IF this contagion spreads, then REMAIN could be 60/40 in public opinion and LEAVE politicians will be howlingly unpopular
I don't want this to happen, but you can see how, if it does happen, all of our politics will be upended. Boris could be hated.
And we'd lose all Cameron's concessions, and probably be back in a much worse position wrt the EU than we were last year.
The voters have voted. We should be fully out.
If we got for EEA/EFTA many people will be very, very unhappy. Perhaps even violence-on-the-streets-of-London unhappy. That's what Leave sold them.
We have no brilliant choices. We have a pretty decent choice if we act fast, and join the EEA/single market, promising the people a rethink and the rest of it on free movement when we see the scale of migration in that arrangement
Fully Out in one wrench could take 5-10% off our economy. Senseless. The vote from the people was LEAVE, it wasn't END ALL IMMIGRATION AND SCREW TRADE AS WELL
FFS - your lot won. As others have said from both sides - suck it up.
I voted Remain a few days and Labour last year as I am very pro-EU. I am gutted. I am concerned about the economy and the nervousness of being an immigrant right now. But life has to go on...
I am rapidly developing the opinion that the only thing that the Remainder crowd fear more than being right about all the post-Brexit doom and gloom is being wrong about it.
I doubt that would work, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plans for the London to Birmingham section are probably two or three years ahead of those for the northern sections. And this occurred because the major reasons for doing it are capacity constraints on the southern section.
Also, HS3 (or whatever they're calling it) might cause the plans for the northern section to be slightly altered. It'd be good if HS2's northern branches and HS3 actually complemented each other. It'd be (literal) joined-up thinking.
(ISTR they've done this at a stations on Crossrail (Tottenham Court Road?) where it has been constructed to allow Crossrail 2 later without causing as much inconvenience to passengers)
The only reason HIgh Speed Two is needed is because some idiot built three monster size new towns between London and Rugby meaning the West Coast Main Line is full and a relief line is needed.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
Speaking of the Great Central, there is now no rail service north of Aylesbury Vale (save for Quainton Road specials in May and August Bank Holidays), and no direct connection between Rugby and Leicester.
It's a terrible shame they destroyed the route through Leicester and Nottingham. Some say it was deliberate, and it was certainly with indecent haste. Although ISTR the Victoria Centre in Nottingham has room underneath for a two-line rail route. So it's a shame the rest of the route in the area's been obliterated.
But the problem with the old GCR route was that it used existing routes into London, which are quite busy to this day.
I guess they could use the same frequency of current Chiltern Railways services, merely extended to Rugby (for argument's sake) without seriously impinging on capacity. I think there are trains every 30 mins to Aylesbury (Aylesbury Vale Parkway every 60 mins).
Comments
Both parties are comical. Surely there is absolutely no chance of any leadership at Westminster for a significant period of time (over a year maybe).
' When I reached the Vote Leave offices, I found a room full of empty bottles and joyful young faces. I was particularly struck by a red-headed, intellectual-looking man who, I heard, is 22 years old. His name is Richard Howell, and he is such an expert on EU law that Cabinet ministers during the campaign stood silent while he explained it all to them. '
Now there was a PBer called Richard Howell (whom I believed later changed his PB name) who was VERY knowledgeable about legal issues.
If its the same person I'm amazed he's so young.
Trust Boris. He noze what he's talking about.
What Farron needs to do is sell Liberal Democrat ideals. I think there're lots of takers if they sell it right.
After all the coalition worked remarkably well.
It's the voting system, stupid.
If you build one you build it to be fast. No brainer.
However there is case other than political to build it north of Crewe and the eastern branch to leeds via east midlands is repeating the folly of the great central duplicate route and will be little if at all faster to many city centres served by the Midland and East Coast lines all of which have plenty of capacity other than at pinch points such as welwyn viaduct.
It is now becoming obvious that the costs of building it for 250mph rather than 180mph are prohibitive.
Build london to crewe at 180mph and spend the rest on the existing network is logical and outside the EU we will be able to do just that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmSm0y2BHI
If he goes down in history as taking the prize for the worst PM from Lord North I shall look down from wherever and laugh.
Or of course up. But I shall still find that to smile about!!
The voters have voted. We should be fully out.
If we got for EEA/EFTA many people will be very, very unhappy. Perhaps even violence-on-the-streets-of-London unhappy. That's what Leave sold them.
I felt a little sorry for Davidson at the end of it. She was destroyed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Guy Verhofstadt: No big obstacle to an independent Scotland joining the EU before Brexit.
What the Tories have done is to do both - to pay for it we now have the sorts of cuts to public services that have largely destroyed many urban areas in the North. We simply cannot go on cutting taxes AND protecting public services.
As a parent of a youngster at college I fail to see the benefit to me in financial terms of receiving £200 a year in tax savings if my local authority, as a result of cuts to local authority grants, raise the student bus pass by 50% to nearly £700.
Ed Miliband was too left wing and laughed at for saying New Labour didn't overspend. Wait 'til we go into a GE with a leader who thinks New Labour didn't spend enough.
Whatever the LD ills everyone in the party should really hold their heads up high in that they did something difficult and unprecedented - and moreover did it well.
I'm not likely to vote LD (but please persuade me), and I think Farron is rather poor, but I will always hold your party in the greatest esteem in that you showed yourselves capable of making an enormously brave choice, and delivering on that choice.
Will this put pressure on other contenders to do the same.
Seems certain that candidates are going to be asked the question during leadership debates.
Members likely to prefer the 100% certainty of 4 more years of Con Majority Government.
PM - May
Justice/Lord Chancellor - Gove, also First Secretary of State/DPM
Chancellor - Boris, it will be up to him to deliver Leave's spending pledges and the £350m or £100m per week or whatever it was.
Home Sec - Osborne, as people know I'm not his greatest fan, but I think he could do well in the Home Office, it would be nice to have someone who is vaguely in favour of civil liberties in there as well. Additionally he recognises the economic gains that highly skilled migrants provide so wouldn't bang on about it too much.
Foreign Sec - Hammond, he is an instinctive outer, he may have declared for remain, but given the task of extricating us from the EU and getting the best diplomatic settlement possible he will know what to do, additionally as a self made person he obviously knows how to get things done, so will be useful for all the trade talks we will have with the EU and RoW nations.
Defence - Fallon, keep the whole MoD as is, I've heard many, many good things about him/his team, from civil servants, a few friends who serve and defence contractors who like his unflappability.
Education - Greening, give her a bigger role, she has learned her lesson at DfID I think.
BIS - Leadsom, she had the best campaign IMO, sharp as they come, she can get Cabinet experience and her smarts will be needed to get the best out of British industry, we also need someone who won't be taken for a fool like Javid has been recently over the Tata/Corus pension liabilities.
Energy - Truss, really it's anyone but Rudd. I would also move the climate change remit to environment.
Environment and CC - Fox, a good sop to the right as he can go to all of the climate change rubbish and swear at the virtue signalling liberals.
Transport - McLoughlin, he seems to be doing a decent job, seems friendly to LHR3 as well.
DWP - Crabb, no need for a change.
Health - Hunt, again, no need for a change.
DfID - Morgan, gets her out of Education
Even Foot smashed the SDP electorally
Resulting is a further 14 years of Tory rule
“What I have said is that Luton is a massive base for us and we wouldn’t be moving lock, stock and barrel from Luton,” she added. “So at the moment we know that Luton will remain Luton in terms of large numbers of people.”
This is what she *actually* said
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/28/airline-bosses-try-to-calm-investor-brexit-fears/
Ed Miliband's mansion tax is going to seem cheap compared to what Brexit might do....
It is something RyanAir already do and they have three separate AOCs based in the UK, Ireland and Spain.
Methinks Surbiton is talking out of his bottom .
Edit: posted before I saw Charles's comment above.
See my response to Freggles.
I have no idea why you think you know what I think more than I do.
And that's leaving aside the fact that politicians rarely if ever spend the money saved on cancelling/ reducing a project on related projects; they just grab it back.
As for the line speed: I'm fairly agnostic about that. It is covered in the report(s), and there reasoning seemed sensible. I could be convinced.
But as I've said passim, Euston's the real problem. It's currently a run-down hole; it'll be a money pit for HS2.
Ouch. That attempted pun's made my head hurt.
Do you really think anyone in the midlands or North or Wales is going to do anything other than laugh about a risk to London property prices or City bonuses ?
Lets see if it actually happens.
- Jar Jar Binks.
Green Party leader Natalie Bennett has called for a General Election in November to select a Government to lead Britain into a decision on its future relationship with the European Union. The leader of the Green Party, who campaigned for Britain to remain a member of the EU, is calling for a period of calm and reflection."
http://wembleymatters.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/natalie-bennett-calls-for-general.html?spref=fb&m=1
But the problem with the old GCR route was that it used existing routes into London, which are quite busy to this day.
Remain said it would screw trade, and leave said it would end all immigration.
And people voted for it. Lots of them
if you think Ed was too left wing
Perhaps you could outline which of his policies was too left wing for you
There is absolutely no need to wait on Scotland before negotiating Brexit. We can very easily go ahead and let Scotland make their own decision based on the circumstances at the time.
Apparently it was cancelled due to lack of police but people have turned up anyway. There could be an interesting night in central London.
I picked up a converstion on the Lib Dem Twitter feed this morning where someone had tweeted a criticism of the EU policy - the first respondent was Tim himself engaging with the guy and asking him to contact him personally...that makes a difference.
I would like to see Norman Lamb take a more prominent role nationally and I think the spotlight on big problems building up in the social care sector will boost his profile and it was good to see Nick Clegg find his voice again in recent times.
Things are looking up certainly - 24 new members for our local party in a week. All will get a visit over the weekend and that's how the party will rebuild itself.
There's no conspiracy, just cold hard economic reality.
Yes let's hope they don't leave, but the responsibility if they do will be with those supporters of the leave campaign.
They outright lied to the British people about what voting to leave would actually mean.
But you can't just wave away the real effects the vote is already having. I'm seeing it with my own eyes.
A friend - a well-paid and well-integrated immigrant - says she had a nightmare of someone setting fire to her house. It's never happened before, and it's a direct result of the tone of the leave debate. An overreaction? Perhaps. But it's real.
But feel free to ignore it, or disbelieve me.
I voted Remain a few days and Labour last year as I am very pro-EU. I am gutted. I am concerned about the economy and the nervousness of being an immigrant right now. But life has to go on...