We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
I'm not sure. A REMAINER would do well in London, where Labour is already strong, but how they go down in Wales and the North is another matter...
I'm waiting for Corbyn to be supported by TP & Plato on the grounds that he supported Leave really. One of them has been busy hacking away today at the traitorous Ruth Davidson - you know the one who saved the Scottish Tories a few weeks ago. The Brexiters take no prisoners
If Corbyn still has the support of the membership, he's essentially politically immortal. They should rename him God-King of the Opposition.
I can totally appreciate Labour members being very irked - over turning their mandate is undemocratic according to their own rules.
Either you believe in it - or you don't.
Personally, I think a GE is appropriate shortly after a new PM is appointed. I thought Gordon was wrong taking over from Tony, and the same applies to Cameron.
"Three arrested in connection with a hate incident on a tram in Manchester City Centre" - I would wait and see. It was the Manchester police who arrested a 9 year old girl and kept her in a cell for 12 hours for the crime of saying "I don't understand Urdu".
Voting for him in this vote of confidence also doesn't mean they'd nominate him. A few are probably those Labour MPs who just don't feel like this is the right time when the country is in its current state.
Or those who are worried about being deselected by Corbynista local parties.
I've not thought this up until now but we are getting into a position where SDP2 becomes a serious possibility.
The MPs need to ensure that Corbyn is on the ballot for the leadership contest that must now follow, assuming he wants to fight on. Only if he is defeated within the party will there even be a chance that the Left will accept the result.
But that opens up the possibility that he might win. If so, given today's vote, I don't see how the MPs can credibly continue within the same party. There could be worse times to split: the annihilation of the Lib Dems at least provides a space on the centre-left to fill.
@euanmccolm: how does seumas expect to spin a clear, general election-winning message out of this? i mean, assuming seumas isn't an idiot. which he is.
It didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. A vile 'Remainian' rumour.
so the video was staged?
Felix likes pretend arguments. Young men being arseholes apparently unknown in the UK before June 23rd.
Look for a new pretendy Felix argument coming to a site near you soon!
I replied to you at the end of the last thread re identity politics.
Thanks for the heads up - I'd moved onto this thread. Interesting background.
I received a follow up letter from the Welsh quasi-GIC this morning. They've changed my gender marker (which is a bit naughty of them in advance of a GRC). So, apparently I'm now gay. Whee, so dizzy, must have a lie down.
If I ever end up voting Labour, it really will have been a Fantastic Voyage .
We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
That is more or less what I wrote yesterday. Depends on who the Leader will be though. I am beginning to prefer Yvette, again. Failing which Tom Watson to carry the party.
It didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. A vile 'Remainian' rumour.
But i thought it was a generational thing, i thought all young people were remainers. Who was arguing for sixteen year olds to have the vote? It was their future?
According to the New Statesman’s George Eaton, Rosie Winterton, the chief whip, and John Cryer, the chair of the PLP, are going to see Jeremy Corbyn to tell him that the game is up.
BBC — Boris won't call general election if he becomes Tory leader.
I'm inclined to think it would be wiser not to do so. A GE would simply add to the turmoil & uncertainty. After all, Mr Cameron originally said he had no intention of resigning if Leave won.
We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
That is more or less what I wrote yesterday. Depends on who the Leader will be though. I am beginning to prefer Yvette, again. Failing which Tom Watson to carry the party.
Yvette would be great. Her against Boris would be the best combo for Labour. Following Sean's suggested ticket, above*
*Note that Boris will not run on a 'leave single market' ticket. He may be a clown but he is not mad. The City will not in any case allow such irresponsibility.
It didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. A vile 'Remainian' rumour.
I cant think of any hate incidents ever happening on trams in the years before the referendum.
I travel on these trams quite often and have never seen any incident before. People and the media need to be very careful where they are going with this.
We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
That is more or less what I wrote yesterday. Depends on who the Leader will be though. I am beginning to prefer Yvette, again. Failing which Tom Watson to carry the party.
But it needs a deal with the LDs and the Greens. There are some Tories who might even join a progressive group. Heidi Allen springs to mind.
'm inclined to think it would be wiser not to do so. A GE would simply add to the turmoil & uncertainty. After all, Mr Cameron originally said he had no intention of resigning if Leave won.
I don;t think the electorate would thank the conservatives for calling a GE. They want Brexit implemented, and then they will deliver their verdict in 2020.
We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
That is more or less what I wrote yesterday. Depends on who the Leader will be though. I am beginning to prefer Yvette, again. Failing which Tom Watson to carry the party.
Yvette would be great. Her against Boris would be the best combo for Labour. Following Sean's suggested ticket, above*
*Note that Boris will not run on a 'leave single market' ticket. He may be a clown but he is not mad. The City will not in any case allow such irresponsibility.
The interesting thing is that Sturgeon brought forward her trip to Brussels from next week to tomorrow. It seems to me she's been invited by Shultz and that's why she's moved her schedule up.
Of course Unionists will read what they want into it.
The real question I guess is whether places like Poland and RoI also switch to EFTA once we join.
Hi everyone,
One thing concerns me slightly about EFTA: the ?four? existing EFTA states all have relatively small populations. How does voting / decision making inside EFTA occur?
We are leaving an organisation where one large member (Germany) is often seen as 'bullying' other members. Would the vastly large size of the UK (even without Scotland if they gain indy) just naturally lead us to 'bully' the other EFTA members just because of our different size and economic power?
On another note: at the beginning of last year I expected politics after the GE to be boring. Thanks to the referendum and Labour it's been quite the opposite!
London ALREADY IS devolved. We have been through this before. Khan is simply asking for extra powers, most of which I'll be will be centred around FOM and City passporting.
It has sod all to do with an English Parliament or a Yorkshire Parliament and everything to do with England taking leave of its senses and trying to pull the jewel in the EU's crown out of the EU against its wishes.
London is not a state. It cannot therefore enter international treaties independently of the UK. Ditto Scotland. Sturgeon is talking nonsense.
It's possible that it can negotiate work passporting, as you know.
I'm waiting for Corbyn to be supported by TP & Plato on the grounds that he supported Leave really. One of them has been busy hacking away today at the traitorous Ruth Davidson - you know the one who saved the Scottish Tories a few weeks ago. The Brexiters take no prisoners
If Corbyn still has the support of the membership, he's essentially politically immortal. They should rename him God-King of the Opposition.
I can totally appreciate Labour members being very irked - over turning their mandate is undemocratic according to their own rules.
Either you believe in it - or you don't.
Personally, I think a GE is appropriate shortly after a new PM is appointed. I thought Gordon was wrong taking over from Tony, and the same applies to Cameron.
I'm agnostic about it in a general sense, but with all the uncertainty atm, it really doesn't seem wise in this case. Particularly if some party decides to campaign on an intention to over-turn the referendum result.
The real question I guess is whether places like Poland and RoI also switch to EFTA once we join.
Hi everyone,
One thing concerns me slightly about EFTA: the ?four? existing EFTA states all have relatively small populations. How does voting / decision making inside EFTA occur?
We are leaving an organisation where one large member (Germany) is often seen as 'bullying' other members. Would the vastly large size of the UK (even without Scotland if they gain indy) just naturally lead us to 'bully' the other EFTA members just because of our different size and economic power?
On another note: at the beginning of last year I expected politics after the GE to be boring. Thanks to the referendum and Labour it's been quite the opposite!
EFTA voting is entirely by unanimity and each country gets one vote.
The always no doubt 100% accurate 'which x are you' thing on Guido is useful, as apparently I'm Crabb, and it lets me know one thing about him, which is more than before,
Wetter than an English summer, your #Crabbid joint-ticket with Saj stands for One Nation continuity-Cameron.
We're laughing now (and why not) - but if Labour do somehow prise Corbyn from the Precious, and then campaign on REMAIN against a Tory LEAVE they might do quite well; and if they campaign on a STAY IN SINGLE MARKET versus Bojo's LEAVE SINGLE MARKET they'd probably win
That is more or less what I wrote yesterday. Depends on who the Leader will be though. I am beginning to prefer Yvette, again. Failing which Tom Watson to carry the party.
Yvette would be great. Her against Boris would be the best combo for Labour. Following Sean's suggested ticket, above*
*Note that Boris will not run on a 'leave single market' ticket. He may be a clown but he is not mad. The City will not in any case allow such irresponsibility.
In what way would the City disallow it?
Those closer to the action seem to think Watson and Eagle are doing a deal so that there will be only one candidate. I've no idea whether others will allow that to happen.
I think Yvette would be a fine choice, but rejected last time.
The interesting thing is that Sturgeon brought forward her trip to Brussels from next week to tomorrow. It seems to me she's been invited by Shultz and that's why she's moved her schedule up.
Of course Unionists will read what they want into it.
It's a total non-story anyway, but that denial would have been issued regardless.
If 172 MPs resigned the Labour whip, would that make the SNP the Loyal Opposition?
Until they formed a registered political party and was recognised by parliament, I think that would be the case. But we're about to enter the summer recess so it won't matter.
The real question I guess is whether places like Poland and RoI also switch to EFTA once we join.
You didn't take long to crater. From dreaming of a resurgent Commonwealth block to wanting to sign up to be a satellite of the EU, pronto. I can only conclude that Brexit is not turning out as you thought it would.
McCluskey: “The extraordinary behaviour of Labour MPs has achieved nothing beyond diverting attention from a Tory government in crisis.
“If anyone wants to change the Labour leadership, they must do it openly and democratically through an election, not through resignations and pointless posturing. If there has to be such an election, Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters throughout the movement will be ready for it.”
At what point does Corbyn hanging on damage the chances of a candidate just like him but competent? Not that that would solve the problem of the members of course.
You do realise Corbyn will have 36 MPs to nominate him.
you need 50.
He needs NO nominations according to the rule book
That was the PB consensus from when this was discussed at the time of his election. If he doesn't resign voluntarily, he's on the ballot automatically. There is no way of removing him against his will.
A #SavingLabour website has been set up for people who want to send in a message saying they support calls for Jeremy Corbyn to resign. - https://www.savinglabour.com/
Does anyone know the Labour Party rules? Not sure incumbency gets him on the ballot and I think he may need 50 nominations to do so. He could be toast here.
I quoted the rule book earlier. Any challenger needs 20% of MPs (46). The incumbent doesn't need nominations, they are incumbent.
Apparently that is not true – legal advice that the PLP has. In any case Corbyn is quite stark raving mad for refusing to resign. The PLP could now split, and may do so.
I'm waiting for Corbyn to be supported by TP & Plato on the grounds that he supported Leave really. One of them has been busy hacking away today at the traitorous Ruth Davidson - you know the one who saved the Scottish Tories a few weeks ago. The Brexiters take no prisoners
If Corbyn still has the support of the membership, he's essentially politically immortal. They should rename him God-King of the Opposition.
I can totally appreciate Labour members being very irked - over turning their mandate is undemocratic according to their own rules.
Either you believe in it - or you don't.
Personally, I think a GE is appropriate shortly after a new PM is appointed. I thought Gordon was wrong taking over from Tony, and the same applies to Cameron.
I'm agnostic about it in a general sense, but with all the uncertainty atm, it really doesn't seem wise in this case. Particularly if some party decides to campaign on an intention to over-turn the referendum result.
A GE in the Spring seems fair to me. I well recall how miffed I was about Gordon. I voted very reluctantly for Tony in 2005 - I'd never have chosen Gordon.
I can't have one rule for my preferred side because it suits me.
The real question I guess is whether places like Poland and RoI also switch to EFTA once we join.
Hi everyone,
One thing concerns me slightly about EFTA: the ?four? existing EFTA states all have relatively small populations. How does voting / decision making inside EFTA occur?
We are leaving an organisation where one large member (Germany) is often seen as 'bullying' other members. Would the vastly large size of the UK (even without Scotland if they gain indy) just naturally lead us to 'bully' the other EFTA members just because of our different size and economic power?
On another note: at the beginning of last year I expected politics after the GE to be boring. Thanks to the referendum and Labour it's been quite the opposite!
EFTA voting is entirely by unanimity and each country gets one vote.
The real question I guess is whether places like Poland and RoI also switch to EFTA once we join.
Hi everyone,
One thing concerns me slightly about EFTA: the ?four? existing EFTA states all have relatively small populations. How does voting / decision making inside EFTA occur?
We are leaving an organisation where one large member (Germany) is often seen as 'bullying' other members. Would the vastly large size of the UK (even without Scotland if they gain indy) just naturally lead us to 'bully' the other EFTA members just because of our different size and economic power?
On another note: at the beginning of last year I expected politics after the GE to be boring. Thanks to the referendum and Labour it's been quite the opposite!
EFTA voting is entirely by unanimity and each country gets one vote.
Thanks.
How are you doing JJ? Hope you are still improving.
Does anyone know the Labour Party rules? Not sure incumbency gets him on the ballot and I think he may need 50 nominations to do so. He could be toast here.
Don't the NEC interpret the rules, and isn't that stuffed with Jez placemen ?
Think the centre-left has a majority on the NEC according to a post by NPXMP earlier
@benrileysmith: Two Labour sources: proposal is Angela Eagle runs against Corbyn while Tom Watson oversees as interim leader.
Seems odd. Eagle would never win amongst the members.
I've no idea how Eagle would fare with the Labour membership but Nick P doesn't rate her chances or Watson's against Corbyn but thinks Cooper would make a contest of it.
It would be crazy of the Labour PLP to go this far and then not field the candidate who has the best chance of beating Corbyn with Labour members. I don't know who that would be but the PLP ought to have a good idea and should get that person to stand.
Comments
Either you believe in it - or you don't.
Personally, I think a GE is appropriate shortly after a new PM is appointed. I thought Gordon was wrong taking over from Tony, and the same applies to Cameron.
They're all in on it.
Mr Morris If Corbyn goes back to the membership, and they confirm him, what on earth happens then?
The MPs need to ensure that Corbyn is on the ballot for the leadership contest that must now follow, assuming he wants to fight on. Only if he is defeated within the party will there even be a chance that the Left will accept the result.
But that opens up the possibility that he might win. If so, given today's vote, I don't see how the MPs can credibly continue within the same party. There could be worse times to split: the annihilation of the Lib Dems at least provides a space on the centre-left to fill.
I received a follow up letter from the Welsh quasi-GIC this morning. They've changed my gender marker (which is a bit naughty of them in advance of a GRC). So, apparently I'm now gay. Whee, so dizzy, must have a lie down.
If I ever end up voting Labour, it really will have been a Fantastic Voyage
There are few hundred thousand more Labour members who support Corbyn than support the disloyal MPs.
[edited update]
George Eaton (@georgeeaton) June 28, 2016
Labour source: "Rosie [chief whip] and John [PLP chair] have not asked JC to resign, contrary to some speculation."
(Good afternoon, everyone.)
*Note that Boris will not run on a 'leave single market' ticket. He may be a clown but he is not mad. The City will not in any case allow such irresponsibility.
I don;t think the electorate would thank the conservatives for calling a GE. They want Brexit implemented, and then they will deliver their verdict in 2020.
https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/747823211254059008
The interesting thing is that Sturgeon brought forward her trip to Brussels from next week to tomorrow. It seems to me she's been invited by Shultz and that's why she's moved her schedule up.
Of course Unionists will read what they want into it.
One thing concerns me slightly about EFTA: the ?four? existing EFTA states all have relatively small populations. How does voting / decision making inside EFTA occur?
We are leaving an organisation where one large member (Germany) is often seen as 'bullying' other members. Would the vastly large size of the UK (even without Scotland if they gain indy) just naturally lead us to 'bully' the other EFTA members just because of our different size and economic power?
On another note: at the beginning of last year I expected politics after the GE to be boring. Thanks to the referendum and Labour it's been quite the opposite!
Got your three pounds ready for the next leadership vote of the Labour party.
It's possible that it can negotiate work passporting, as you know.
Wetter than an English summer, your #Crabbid joint-ticket with Saj stands for One Nation continuity-Cameron.
I think Yvette would be a fine choice, but rejected last time.
Only three horses under 10/1, Watson and Eagle at 6/4 the double and the whole thing could be moot if JC wins the members' vote again.
Someone's gonna make money on this, but I can't see the wood for the trees.
“If anyone wants to change the Labour leadership, they must do it openly and democratically through an election, not through resignations and pointless posturing. If there has to be such an election, Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters throughout the movement will be ready for it.”
Do you sense there's an appetite for a GE in the country?
I don't. Quite the opposite.
Their site moderators have my deepest sympathy...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36654418
Does Jeremy Corbyn need to quit?
YES 23%
NO 77%
Champion and a.n.other
But only about £20 at 50s :-).
One of a small portfolio of Labour Ladies for Leader.
Apparently that is not true – legal advice that the PLP has. In any case Corbyn is quite stark raving mad for refusing to resign. The PLP could now split, and may do so.
Soames says he will back Boris!!!!
I can't have one rule for my preferred side because it suits me.
Think the centre-left has a majority on the NEC according to a post by NPXMP earlier
Row back all the way....
I fear that may be the end of the Labour party. Just when we need it most.