Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
They're politicians, not weepy social workers or a bunch of drama school luvvies. Their job is to go out and DO democracy. They can't simultaneously take the praise for being so brave in facing danger (as they have been doing), then decide to hide away for an entire weekend, six days before the country chooses it's long term destiny.
It's total bollocks. My suspicion is that they think this will hurt LEAVE, stopping momentum, creating a game changer. It's low, dirty politics. They are exploiting the death to aid REMAIN. So no change there then.
I suspect the thought is genuine. But it's totally wrong for all the reasons you say. In practice, of course, it will make absolutely no difference because nobody is listening to Labour.
The European Neighbourhood policy are those states shown - so yep - this is (at the moment) a lie, but based on a truth.
Based on the truth that the EU seeks friendly, constructive relationships with its neighbours? Are the arrows based on the truth that BA operates flights from Marrakech?
Boris has performed excellently in the last two or three weeks, after a very faltering start. He's been measured, clever, eloquent and persuasive. Also Gove.
The "anyone but Boris" brigade need to Stop and Think. Boris is a character, we all know that. But for whatever his failings he is photogenic, funny, populist. He won twice in a Labour city with cross-party personal support. Combine him with Gove who always comes across as measured and well considered and you could have a powerful platform to appeal to the country.
As someone who will start planning my CLP's snap election plan once we get next week out of the way I'd rather you didn't. Keep that anus Cameron or better still put that pop-eyed loon May in his place if you want me to have a good result...
Boris can play the Prince George role and Gove the Edmund role a la Blackadder 3
Mr. Royale, national sentiment can change rapidly. There were only a few years between Nelson's "Kiss me, Hardy" emotiveness and the Iron Duke's stiff upper lip.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening. Rich people stand most to lose if there is a Brexit, so what do they do......they hedge on staying, therefore losing twice.
Rich people will lose the least from Brexit. They are insulated from its negative affects. Ordinary working people are not.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Anyone who feels they can continue should, which should be almost everyone. It shows that we are not shaken by violence.
There may be some who are overwrought with emotion, if they don't want to do anything for a few days then that should be their decision. Offer them counselling and support if needed. But it shouldn't be a decision made for everyone.
It's about not allowing a sort of emotional bullying of those not personally affected to develop, and to avoid even the faintest suspicion that it might be being done for partisan advantage.
The proper response is to allow her family and friends and colleagues to mourn her in peace and privacy and to carry on in the best traditions of our democracy as one would expect she, as an MP, would have wanted. But regardless, we carry on. That's all.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Pathetic. A close member of my family died from terminal cancer last year.
I went to work the next day, and took time to mourn when I had it in my own time. I did not allow it to upset any of my major professional commitments.
This might be very hard for a few dozen who knew Jo very well, and my heart goes out to them, but it cannot and must not be allowed to disrupt the votes of millions to decide the destiny of our country.
We are getting very very close here to making the referendum one on her tragic death, or talking ourselves into postponing the vote.
I went to work the day after my mum died. She'd have expected me to do my duty and carry on.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
They're politicians, not weepy social workers or a bunch of drama school luvvies. Their job is to go out and DO democracy. They can't simultaneously take the praise for being so brave in facing danger (as they have been doing), then decide to hide away for an entire weekend, six days before the country chooses it's long term destiny.
It's total bollocks. My suspicion is that they think this will hurt LEAVE, stopping momentum, creating a game changer. It's low, dirty politics. They are exploiting the death to aid REMAIN. So no change there then.
Has Labour really wanted to campaign that hard anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't mind an excuse to take it easy not least since one of their most internationalist MPs has been murdered. There's also a more cynical idea. That maybe some of them WANT to lose the referendum to have an excuse to move against Corbyn.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
No other organisation with over 600 employees would completely close down in such circumstances. I can see that you might want to suspend campaigning in and around her constituency, and close personal friends might be expected to take a day off, but I fear we have moved into mawkish sentimentality and overreaction. She was not well known (I had never heard of her) and many people are murdered every year, some of whom are parents of young children or indeed doing their job. Had it been organised terrorism it's in some way an attack on all of us, but the evidence, such as it is, is that it was a lone nutter. I don't see why she was the only story on the news, even yesterday.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, their colleague was murdered.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
Boris has performed excellently in the last two or three weeks, after a very faltering start. He's been measured, clever, eloquent and persuasive. Also Gove.
The "anyone but Boris" brigade need to Stop and Think. Boris is a character, we all know that. But for whatever his failings he is photogenic, funny, populist. He won twice in a Labour city with cross-party personal support. Combine him with Gove who always comes across as measured and well considered and you could have a powerful platform to appeal to the country.
As someone who will start planning my CLP's snap election plan once we get next week out of the way I'd rather you didn't. Keep that anus Cameron or better still put that pop-eyed loon May in his place if you want me to have a good result...
Boris can play the Prince George role and Gove the Edmund role a la Blackadder 3
It isn't obvious however that anyone on the Leave Team has a cunning plan...
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Stop for a minute and take a look at what you're saying. A young woman with 2 children and a husband has been murdered less than 24 hours ago. It really doesn't come across well. And you always seem like a sensible Leaver.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Anyone who feels they can continue should, which should be almost everyone. It shows that we are not shaken by violence.
There may be some who are overwrought with emotion, if they don't want to do anything for a few days then that should be their decision. Offer them counselling and support if needed. But it shouldn't be a decision made for everyone.
I think that any canvassing by either side will run the risk of alienating the people they are canvassing. Indeed I think that the Nation would probably prefer that the campaign was closed out and let the Nation have a period to reflect before the 23rd
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, their colleague was murdered.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
It's about not allowing a sort of emotional bullying of those not personally affected to develop, and to avoid even the faintest suspicion that it might be being done for partisan advantage.
The proper response is to allow her family and friends and colleagues to mourn her in peace and privacy and to carry on in the best traditions of our democracy as one would expect she, as an MP, would have wanted. But regardless, we carry on. That's all.
It's not bullying when other people have feelings you don't agree with. It's liberty.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
They're politicians, not weepy social workers or a bunch of drama school luvvies. Their job is to go out and DO democracy. They can't simultaneously take the praise for being so brave in facing danger (as they have been doing), then decide to hide away for an entire weekend, six days before the country chooses it's long term destiny.
It's total bollocks. My suspicion is that they think this will hurt LEAVE, stopping momentum, creating a game changer. It's low, dirty politics. They are exploiting the death to aid REMAIN. So no change there then.
I think it hurts Remain because you're potentially going to see a lower Labour turnout because of this.
There won't be any "Labour" turnout. Party activists have voters on file as "Tory", "Labour", etc., but that doesn't mean that everyone who might vote in this referendum has those labels stuck on their minds.
As for the campaigns being suspended, well Jean-Claude Juncker intervened even before Jo Cox's death was announced, and Christine "Up in court for corruption" Lagarde has been active too.
What has happened, and this is important, because Leave surged into the lead after the TV shows of 7 and 9 June, is that Question Time was cancelled.
On the other side of the coin, to judge by the Daily Mail's cover, the Leavite media is continuing the fight, which makes me think that Leave is still a buy and may well still win. As I've said before, there could be more and bigger fireworks.
Polly Toynbee's disgraceful article saying dirty scary plebs mustn't be allowed a say on immigration, because they'll be bound to get their pitchforks out and stick them up the political class, is only an instance of preaching to the converted. The DM and a fortiori the Sun are far more important when elections and referendums come than the Guardian.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Pathetic. A close member of my family died from terminal cancer last year.
I went to work the next day, and took time to mourn when I had it in my own time. I did not allow it to upset any of my major professional commitments.
This might be very hard for a few dozen who knew Jo very well, and my heart goes out to them, but it cannot and must not be allowed to disrupt the votes of millions to decide the destiny of our country.
We are getting very very close here to making the referendum one on her tragic death, or talking ourselves into postponing the vote.
I went to work the day after my mum died. She'd have expected me to do my duty and carry on.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
I don't think you can compare the two. The Brighton bomb was a direct attack on British Democracy with the aim to bring down the government and to kill senior MP's . What happened yesterday was a one off event that targeted an MP performing her day job.
I don't mind a pause but it shouldn't go on too long.
Im at a loss to understand why this should change votes - the arguments are still the same - just because some MP has been killed people suddenly think oh well the EU is not THAT bad after all baffles me
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening. Rich people stand most to lose if there is a Brexit, so what do they do......they hedge on staying, therefore losing twice.
Rich people will lose the least from Brexit. They are insulated from its negative affects. Ordinary working people are not.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
People die all the time and their friends have to get on with life. Democracy matters. The referendum matters. We can't put this on hold because of one event - no matter how awful it is for the people concerned. And if the MP does not feel like going out they have volunteers and others to face the public. We risk getting into ridiculous over-reaction. There are those who knew and worked with her who are obviously affected. There are many millions of others for which this is not personal. Tough as this may sound, a sense of proportion is needed.
Agreed.
I never replied to you before about the prospects for soft, centre left wing politics for 2020 with a Brexit vote. Not great I'm afraid.
You see Brexit will lead to an economic shock, prolonged by years of political and economic uncertainty. Except this'll be worse than 2008 because we are in a much weaker fiscal position to deal with this kind of shock. And Darling's prediction that emergency budgets will need to be implemented annually will come to light as our economy falters annually, backed by weakening in assets across the board, rising imported inflation and higher interest rates.
Darling rightly called the 2008 crash, he dealt with the after effects well, and he is the politician I think who has more integrity than any other.
And as our public services suffer, and people get poorer- who will we blame? Migrants and Europe. The Out campaign has already scapegoated them so far, quite successfully. 2020 will be a fertile ground for extremist politics, the hard left and the hard right- but there will be no hearing for people like me.
I think it's fair enough thet campaigning was suspended yesterday and today but suspending it over the final weekend before the vote seems a bit much if for no other reason than one violent, murderous mad man should not be allowed to disrupt our civic way of life.
Isn't Cameron supposed to be doing Question Time on Sunday evening? That's his last big opportunity to "pitch" to the country.
Hillary Clinton calls for 'rejection of bigotry in all its forms ' after death of Jo Cox, tributes to in the Canadian Parliament from an MP who worked with her on human rights issues and from Justin Trudeau
Except that it looks exactly like Nazi propaganda.
It also looks exactly like Labour isn't working. Which is more famous and more likely for it to be based on?
Why would a poster using an actual photo & playing on fears of (im)migrants be based on a staged poster of people queuing for the dole office? 2 entirely different things imo.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, their colleague was murdered.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
I wouldn't accuse any individual of lying. I find the idea of a systemic organised shutdown tasteless and something that risks encouraging future violence. If you tell every lone nutter they can change what we do during an election if they murder someone is that really a smart lesson to make? It's tragic and people should be allowed to mourn, especially close personal friends on either side of the aisle. But we must rise above violence and not let it shape our democracy.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Pathetic. A close member of my family died from terminal cancer last year.
I went to work the next day, and took time to mourn when I had it in my own time. I did not allow it to upset any of my major professional commitments.
This might be very hard for a few dozen who knew Jo very well, and my heart goes out to them, but it cannot and must not be allowed to disrupt the votes of millions to decide the destiny of our country.
We are getting very very close here to making the referendum one on her tragic death, or talking ourselves into postponing the vote.
I went to work the day after my mum died. She'd have expected me to do my duty and carry on.
Virtue signalling. Hmmm.
Oh dear me. SO, you seem desperately keen to use her awful death for cheap and now personal point scoring - repeatedly. I expected more of you.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn Cameron and Corbyn to make an unprecedented joint statement together in Birstall on #JoCoxMP killing. Will ask the nation to unite.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, their colleague was murdered.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
Horrible, isn't it?
I am really at a loss to see the lack of thought or sympathy mainly from leavers on this site for Jo and I do believe that they are in a minority and the ordinary decency of the public will shine through.
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
I am going to disagree with SeanT. I am sure some people will infer motives in doing so.
This is not the same situation. The purpose of the Brighton bomb was to bring down the government, in which case the right response was to show the business of Government continued unabated.
While we do not yet know the motive for this attack, I think it is reasonable to assume it was not to derail the referendum (despite the wilder false flag theories being spouted) so carrying on is not a defiant show of resilience in the face of aggression
On the other hand, while there is the slightest suggestion that the attack was in any way motivated by the campaign (and the early stories suggest that there might be, YMMV), then suspending a campaign that has the potential to incite violence doesn't seem like an unreasonable move to me.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not advocating violence. I do wish anyone to come to harm.
I think suspending the most poisonous and rancorous campaign of my lifetime is a wise precaution. It won't swing the vote, either way
I would be content if the campaigns never restarted and we just vote and move on
Except that it looks exactly like Nazi propaganda.
It also looks exactly like Labour isn't working. Which is more famous and more likely for it to be based on?
Why would a poster using an actual photo & playing on fears of (im)migrants be based on a staged poster of people queuing for the dole office? 2 entirely different things imo.
Because the staged poster is arguably the single most famous and most successful poster of all time in British politics. As a result it is also the most copied and parodied.
It was a vile tasteless hateful racist poster. But the notion it was copied from an obscure image we'd never seen before rather than the most famous poster of all time is a leap.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Pathetic. A close member of my family died from terminal cancer last year.
I went to work the next day, and took time to mourn when I had it in my own time. I did not allow it to upset any of my major professional commitments.
This might be very hard for a few dozen who knew Jo very well, and my heart goes out to them, but it cannot and must not be allowed to disrupt the votes of millions to decide the destiny of our country.
We are getting very very close here to making the referendum one on her tragic death, or talking ourselves into postponing the vote.
I went to work the day after my mum died. She'd have expected me to do my duty and carry on.
Virtue signalling. Hmmm.
Oh dear me. SO, you seem desperately keen to use her awful death for cheap and now personal point scoring - repeatedly. I expected more of you.
Do you think accusing Labour of lying about "faux grief" and using the murder of their fellow MP is cheap political point scoring?
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn Cameron and Corbyn to make an unprecedented joint statement together in Birstall on #JoCoxMP killing. Will ask the nation to unite.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Pathetic. A close member of my family died from terminal cancer last year.
I went to work the next day, and took time to mourn when I had it in my own time. I did not allow it to upset any of my major professional commitments.
This might be very hard for a few dozen who knew Jo very well, and my heart goes out to them, but it cannot and must not be allowed to disrupt the votes of millions to decide the destiny of our country.
We are getting very very close here to making the referendum one on her tragic death, or talking ourselves into postponing the vote.
I went to work the day after my mum died. She'd have expected me to do my duty and carry on.
Virtue signalling. Hmmm.
Oh dear me. SO, you seem desperately keen to use her awful death for cheap and now personal point scoring - repeatedly. I expected more of you.
Don't attribute your own motivations to others. I have not commented on Jo Cox's murder except to say it should not change anything, that it was the act of someone acting alone and that it is tragic.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn Cameron and Corbyn to make an unprecedented joint statement together in Birstall on #JoCoxMP killing. Will ask the nation to unite.
That could be a very big moment
They've got to be careful though. Any sense that they are trying to make it about the referendum (which they are both on the same side of) could derail it.
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
I am going to disagree with SeanT. I am sure some people will infer motives in doing so.
This is not the same situation. The purpose of the Brighton bomb was to bring down the government, in which case the right response was to show the business of Government continued unabated.
While we do not yet know the motive for this attack, I think it is reasonable to assume it was not to derail the referendum (despite the wilder false flag theories being spouted) so carrying on is not a defiant show of resilience in the face of aggression
On the other hand, while there is the slightest suggestion that the attack was in any way motivated by the campaign (and the early stories suggest that there might be, YMMV), then suspending a campaign that has the potential to incite violence doesn't seem like an unreasonable move to me.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not advocating violence. I do wish anyone to come to harm.
I think suspending the most poisonous and rancorous campaign of my lifetime is a wise precaution. It won't swing the vote, either way
I would be content if the campaigns never restarted and we just vote and move on
Except that it looks exactly like Nazi propaganda.
It also looks exactly like Labour isn't working. Which is more famous and more likely for it to be based on?
Why would a poster using an actual photo & playing on fears of (im)migrants be based on a staged poster of people queuing for the dole office? 2 entirely different things imo.
Because the staged poster is arguably the single most famous and most successful poster of all time in British politics. As a result it is also the most copied and parodied.
It was a vile tasteless hateful racist poster. But the notion it was copied from an obscure image we'd never seen before rather than the most famous poster of all time is a leap.
'We have a vile, tasteless, hateful, racist poster that strongly resembles vile, tasteless, hateful, racist Nazi propaganda, but it also slightly resembles a party political election poster from 1979, so it's ok.'
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Stop for a minute and take a look at what you're saying. A young woman with 2 children and a husband has been murdered less than 24 hours ago. It really doesn't come across well. And you always seem like a sensible Leaver.
I am perfectly comfortable with what I'm saying. Even though I see some posters are now trying to attack my common decency, comments which I hold beneath contempt that debase those making them.
This is the most important vote in a generation. The campaign must continue and restart at 9am tomorrow.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening. Rich people stand most to lose if there is a Brexit, so what do they do......they hedge on staying, therefore losing twice.
Rich people will lose the least from Brexit. They are insulated from its negative affects. Ordinary working people are not.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism. Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit? A price worth paying.
The point is: the Tories reacted correctly to an assault on democracy. Labour should do the same. We carry on. We don't let terrorists or nutters derail our politics. End of story.
No
The Government of the day reacted correctly to an assault on Government.
Labour MPs are reacting to the death of a friend and colleague doing her job as they will continue to do.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, their colleague was murdered.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
Horrible, isn't it?
Jesus, stop with the mewling. Pitiful. Then you accuse Plato of virtue signaling??!
The point is: the Tories reacted correctly to an assault on democracy. Labour should do the same. We carry on. We don't let terrorists or nutters derail our politics. End of story.
I agree with you. What is horrible is the doubting of the motives of those who suggested it.
The European Neighbourhood policy are those states shown - so yep - this is (at the moment) a lie, but based on a truth.
Based on the truth that the EU seeks friendly, constructive relationships with its neighbours? Are the arrows based on the truth that BA operates flights from Marrakech?
I didn't say I agreed with it - I was merely pointing out the source. As we all know the best lies are based on truth.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
Indeed. If somehow it's seen that the establishment have used this to 'steal' the referendum wether rightly or wrongly, then there's going to be a lot of angry and divided people out there.
These are very testing times for everyone, and everyone should be very careful about what they say.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening. Rich people stand most to lose if there is a Brexit, so what do they do......they hedge on staying, therefore losing twice.
Rich people will lose the least from Brexit. They are insulated from its negative affects. Ordinary working people are not.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism. Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit?
I've read summaries of the forecasts from bodies like the IFS and National Institute. Both predict that growth would be slower than it would otherwise have been, in the short term, but neither is predicting a crash. I think it is quite likely that there will be a technical recession at some point between now and 2020, simply because we've had six years of (albeit weak) economic growth. Sooner or later, the business cycle kicks in.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Stop for a minute and take a look at what you're saying. A young woman with 2 children and a husband has been murdered less than 24 hours ago. It really doesn't come across well. And you always seem like a sensible Leaver.
It's not about Leave/Remain. What has happened is a tragedy, people need to mourn and the murderer needs dealing with. However there are lots of could-be murderers, nutters and terrorists out there. If you send a message that you can end our democratic procedures during an election by murdering an MP then is that the message you want sending?
It's evil, it's tragic, but you can't put a target on the back of every MP next time and forever.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
People die all the time and their friends have to get on with life. Democracy matters. The referendum matters. We can't put this on hold because of one event - no matter how awful it is for the people concerned. And if the MP does not feel like going out they have volunteers and others to face the public. We risk getting into ridiculous over-reaction. There are those who knew and worked with her who are obviously affected. There are many millions of others for which this is not personal. Tough as this may sound, a sense of proportion is needed.
Agreed.
I never replied to you before about the prospects for soft, centre left wing politics for 2020 with a Brexit vote. Not great I'm afraid. You see Brexit will lead to an economic shock, prolonged by years of political and economic uncertainty. Except this'll be worse than 2008 because we are in a much weaker fiscal position to deal with this kind of shock. .....
Tyson, thankyou for the reply. Just to be clear on the economic shock, when is this going to take place so that we can all watch out for it? Does it start in 2016 with the Brexit vote or is it delayed to 2017 or 2018 or does it only start in the year that we actually exit, such as 2020?
PS The Treasury central forecast was for a milder recession much milder than 2008.
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, ories Good, Labour Bad?
Horrible, isn't it?
I am really at a loss to see the lack of thought or sympathy mainly from leavers on this site for Jo and I do believe that they are in a minority and the ordinary decency of the public will shine through.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Harry Cole 5m Harry Cole @MrHarryCole In 1990, after the murder of Ian Gow, his Eastbourne seat was contested and taken by the LibDems
I have to say that must join the long list of LD peskiness.... homophobic attacks on Tatchell, Jeremy Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Freud, Clegg's back track on tuition fees, the deposing of Kennedy....
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I'd have thought in the current political enviroment that Boris Johnson and David Cameron should be holding a joint presser. The referendum outweighs party politics by a factor of a bout a billion at the moment.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Ciao.
But violence already stopped politics, as the campaigns were suspended. Therefore, the length of such a suspension is only a matter of degree, rather than of unyielding principle. Everyone already failed the Brighton test by suspending their campaigns, REMAIN and LEAVE and Labour and Tory alike. (Personally, I believe Britain has changed since Brighton due to the population's lower exposure to violence from school to WWII veterans to everyday terrorism, and due to a greater acceptability of not repressing one's emotions in public.)
Democracy could, should and must go on. This is an open invitation to psychos and nutters: kill an MP and you can subvert politics and stop elections.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's we are meant to be.
Thatcher did her speech hours later, after someone just tried to kill her.
Have we really changed so much as a nation that conspicuous compassion must rule everything?
Stop for a minute and take a look at what you're saying. A young woman with 2 children and a husband has been murdered less than 24 hours ago. It really doesn't come across well. And you always seem like a sensible Leaver.
I am perfectly comfortable with what I'm saying. Even though I see some posters are now trying to attack my common decency, comments which I hold beneath contempt that debase those making them.
This is the most important vote in a generation. The campaign must continue and restart at 9am tomorrow.
Ok, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. I just think emotions are running high and perhaps people from BOTH sides should calm down.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening. Rich people stand most to lose if there is a Brexit, so what do they do......they hedge on staying, therefore losing twice.
Rich people will lose the least from Brexit. They are insulated from its negative affects. Ordinary working people are not.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism. Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit?
I've read summaries of the forecasts from bodies like the IFS and National Institute. Both predict that growth would be slower than it would otherwise have been, in the short term, but neither is predicting a crash. I think it is quite likely that there will be a technical recession at some point between now and 2020, simply because we've had six years of (albeit weak) economic growth. Sooner or later, the business cycle kicks in.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Indeed. The only way it could do that is if somehow it caused a credit freezes, a la 2008 bank crash. But from all I've read, no-one is predicting that.
If our growth goes from 2.5% to 1.0% or even disappears to 0 (i.e. will not talk of negative growth a la Brown), that per se will have minimal impact on the global economy, even with the inevitable ripple effects through nations with whom we trade most.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I'd have thought in the current political enviroment that Boris Johnson and David Cameron should be holding a joint presser. The referendum outweighs party politics by a factor of a bout a billion at the moment.
Agreed. That would help take a lot of the problems out of this.
Except that it looks exactly like Nazi propaganda.
It also looks exactly like Labour isn't working. Which is more famous and more likely for it to be based on?
Why would a poster using an actual photo & playing on fears of (im)migrants be based on a staged poster of people queuing for the dole office? 2 entirely different things imo.
Because the staged poster is arguably the single most famous and most successful poster of all time in British politics. As a result it is also the most copied and parodied.
It was a vile tasteless hateful racist poster. But the notion it was copied from an obscure image we'd never seen before rather than the most famous poster of all time is a leap.
'We have a vile, tasteless, hateful, racist poster that strongly resembles vile, tasteless, hateful, racist Nazi propaganda, but it also slightly resembles a party political election poster from 1979, so it's ok.'
Well, it's a theory.
Never said it's OK. It's definitely not OK. It's not OK because it is and I quote from my previous post "a vile tasteless hateful racist poster". No vile tasteless hateful racist poster is ever OK under any circumstances.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Ciao.
But violence already stopped politics, as the campaigns were suspended. Therefore, the length of such a suspension is only a matter of degree, rather than of unyielding principle. Everyone already failed the Brighton test by suspending their campaigns, REMAIN and LEAVE and Labour and Tory alike. (Personally, I believe Britain has changed since Brighton due to the population's lower exposure to violence from school to WWII veterans to everyday terrorism, and due to a greater acceptability of not repressing one's emotions in public.)
There's a difference between the day it happens and effectively the rest of the campaign.
Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I'd have thought in the current political enviroment that Boris Johnson and David Cameron should be holding a joint presser. The referendum outweighs party politics by a factor of a bout a billion at the moment.
Agreed. That would help take a lot of the problems out of this.
Corbyn - Cameron - Farage - Johnson all together would send out a very strong message though that is probably wishful thinking.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism. Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit?
I've read summaries of the forecasts from bodies like the IFS and National Institute. Both predict that growth would be slower than it would otherwise have been, in the short term, but neither is predicting a crash. I think it is quite likely that there will be a technical recession at some point between now and 2020, simply because we've had six years of (albeit weak) economic growth. Sooner or later, the business cycle kicks in.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Markets complete overreact. There will be something of a global shock come the 24th June- but this will impact much more on the UK since we will have an assault against sterling and be mired with political instability, although to be fair we will have political instability with a Remain vote too, since the Tory right will turn against Cameron.
But, with a Brexit, the political and economic instability will continue for years. They will not go away, alienating foreign investment....and as we have seen time and time again, economic instability leads to extremism, left and right.
I keep coming back to the PB forums to hear the opinions - typically interesting, sometimes robust - from the highly intelligent commentators that hang out on this site.
I have to say, for the first time I am thinking Trump will actually get thrashed in November. And I am pleased by the prospect.
Why the sudden change from thinking all outcomes possible from a Trump landslide to a Hillary one? Because, following his comments on the judge, even I (as a non-voter but a pretty strong anyone but Hillary believer) now think she is preferable to Trump. Any hope I had that securing the nomination and, ultimately the presidency, would see him shift from provocateur to responsible leader/manager have been dashed.
The man is simply dangerous. Dangerous in that he could start wars. Dangerous in what he could do to democracy and the separation of powers. He must be stopped at all costs.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
The people with money to bet are largely rich people who want REMAIN to win and so have a bias to REMAIN when betting.
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
That would be the worst hedge in the history of gardening twice.
Rich people will lose thenot.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit?
I've read summaries of the forecasts from bodies like the IFS and National Institute. Both predict that growth would be slower than it would otherwise have been, in the short term, but neither is predicting a crash. I think it is quite likely that there will be a technical recession at some point between now and 2020, simply because we've had six years of (albeit weak) economic growth. Sooner or later, the business cycle kicks in.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Indeed. The only way it could do that is if somehow it caused a credit freezes, a la 2008 bank crash. But from all I've read, no-one is predicting that.
If our growth goes from 2.5% to 1.0% or even disappears to 0 (i.e. will not talk of negative growth a la Brown), that per se will have minimal impact on the global economy, even with the inevitable ripple effects through nations with whom we trade most.
It will have a huge affect on us. It will mean big tax rises and/or further deep cuts.
As we know the UK is also a net importer of EU goods, so that's bad news for EU economies. And the EU is a big importer of Chinese and Japanese goods. And so on. It's not as if confidence is currently anything other than very fragile.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, ories Good, Labour Bad?
Horrible, isn't it?
I am really at a loss to see the lack of thought or sympathy mainly from leavers on this site for Jo and I do believe that they are in a minority and the ordinary decency of the public will shine through.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Ciao.
It was not at you specifically, it was directed at those who seem to have a desire to campaign irrespective of the 'right thing to do' - I agree that the sooner it is over the better
Behind one is some one using the murder of Jo Cox to further their political agenda, behind the other two are people saying it was the act of a mentally ill man.
I choose door one, the host opens door three to reveal raging Europhile leftie James O'Brien on LBC hosting a show about the effect that political campaigning, naming no names, had on yesterdays murder.
Harry Cole 5m Harry Cole @MrHarryCole In 1990, after the murder of Ian Gow, his Eastbourne seat was contested and taken by the LibDems
I remember at the time a number of Conservatives urging all other parties to stand aside and allow a Conservative to be elected unopposed.
There was some soul searching within the LDs as well but both we and Labour decided at the time we did a greater disservice to the memory of Ian Gow by allowing the terrorists to believe their actions could undermine the democratic process.
Had Airey Neave not been murdered with an election already pending, I'm sure other parties would have contested the seat.
I think it wholly appropriate the seat should be contested and the normal business of politics resumes and thrives while at the same time remembering and respecting the memory of Jo Cox.
'I have to say that must join the long list of LD peskiness.... homophobic attacks on Tatchell, Jeremy Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Freud, Clegg's back track on tuition fees, the deposing of Kennedy....'
For a minor party they are way over their baggage allowance..
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Oh, very easily. The key point of danger is economic and political turmoil in the Eurozone, triggered by the uncertainty and political vacuum which Brexit will bring. Some respected commentators even go so far as to think that the Eurozone will be more badly affected (in the short term) than we are. I don't personally think that is likely, but the risk of a serious knock-on effect to the already fragile Eurozone - which has few if any levers left to pull - is certainly a real one.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I'd have thought in the current political enviroment that Boris Johnson and David Cameron should be holding a joint presser. The referendum outweighs party politics by a factor of a bout a billion at the moment.
Well indeed. Having two from Remain just asks for it to be misinterpreted.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Ciao.
But violence already stopped politics, as the campaigns were suspended. Therefore, the length of such a suspension is only a matter of degree, rather than of unyielding principle. Everyone already failed the Brighton test by suspending their campaigns, REMAIN and LEAVE and Labour and Tory alike. (Personally, I believe Britain has changed since Brighton due to the population's lower exposure to violence from school to WWII veterans to everyday terrorism, and due to a greater acceptability of not repressing one's emotions in public.)
There's a difference between the day it happens and effectively the rest of the campaign.
Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.
Campaigning was effectively suspended today, the day after the MP was murdered; to me, the difference between one man's interpretation and another's of the right time is a question of degree and not a self-evident bright line. Already, the REMAIN and LEAVE campaigns made the choice on behalf of everyone to suspend campaigning, even though some people here said the grief was false and a lie. I'm sure if an individual MP wanted to continue knocking on doors, they would be welcome to try in the current context and see what the reaction on the doors is, but once the campaigns get going again it is effectively chosen on behalf of everyone that you either campaign or yield ground to your rivals.
What is driving this drift? I haven't seen any new polling.
Sentiment. Most people who are betting want Remain to win.
...
Rich people have most to lose from LEAVE, so I would expect many of them betting on LEAVE as a hedge, including financial organisations. It cuts both ways.
For some rich people, there is nothing worse than the risk of losing money, even if they sill have plenty.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism. Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit?
I've read summaries of the forecasts from bodies like the IFS and National Institute. Both predict that growth would be slower than it would otherwise have been, in the short term, but neither is predicting a crash. I think it is quite likely that there will be a technical recession at some point between now and 2020, simply because we've had six years of (albeit weak) economic growth. Sooner or later, the business cycle kicks in.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
Markets complete overreact. There will be something of a global shock come the 24th June- but this will impact much more on the UK since we will have an assault against sterling and be mired with political instability, although to be fair we will have political instability with a Remain vote too, since the Tory right will turn against Cameron.
But, with a Brexit, the political and economic instability will continue for years. They will not go away, alienating foreign investment....and as we have seen time and time again, economic instability leads to extremism, left and right.
Things like that great product of nineties economic instability, New Labour - and that great product of noughties economic instability, Cameroonism.
Whilst its laudable to say the tragic death of Jo Cox shouldn't effect the EU debate I think this is sticking ones head in the sand. Its impossible given the background referendum to think that this won't play some part, I would suspect both campaigns might tone down the rhetoric but this does leave Vote Leave in a difficult position as to how it will deal with immigration in the coming days. Its simply unavoidable that some voters might connect the concentration on immigration as playing to a minority of people who are xenophobic and racist. Whether this is based on reality is irrelevant, some comments in here seem to be viewing voters as robots without emotions and expecting people to be completely rational.
I really hope and pray that Cameron and Corbyn do not politicize, either explicitly or implicitly, this murder in anyway. Even talking about the tone of the debate, whether you think that is right or wrong is besides the point, would be political. Those inferences coming from those two together is very dodgy and could have profound implications for this country. Very scared now.
I think it's a terrible idea. It's got so many potholes it can fall into - even with the very best of intentions.
I'd have thought in the current political enviroment that Boris Johnson and David Cameron should be holding a joint presser. The referendum outweighs party politics by a factor of a bout a billion at the moment.
Well indeed. Having two from Remain just asks for it to be misinterpreted.
Cameron and Gisela would have been more appropriate - but I guess that would have looked like Corbyn would have been sidelined.
Harry Cole 5m Harry Cole @MrHarryCole In 1990, after the murder of Ian Gow, his Eastbourne seat was contested and taken by the LibDems
I remember at the time a number of Conservatives urging all other parties to stand aside and allow a Conservative to be elected unopposed.
There was some soul searching within the LDs as well but both we and Labour decided at the time we did a greater disservice to the memory of Ian Gow by allowing the terrorists to believe their actions could undermine the democratic process.
Had Airey Neave not been murdered with an election already pending, I'm sure other parties would have contested the seat.
I think it wholly appropriate the seat should be contested and the normal business of politics resumes and thrives while at the same time remembering and respecting the memory of Jo Cox.
Ditto. Depriving the electorate of a choice isn't democracy.
I wonder if withdrawing from Batley and Spen is a tactical consideration by the Conservatives... All the evidence suggests they'd be shellacked there anyway.
'Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.'
I am shown three doors. Behind one is some one using the murder of Jo Cox to further their political agenda, behind the other two are people saying it was the act of a mentally ill man. I choose door one, the host opens door three to reveal raging Europhile leftie James O'Brien on LBC hosting a show about the effect that political campaigning, naming no names, had on yesterdays murder. Do I switch?
This "raging Europhile leftie" James O'Brien is judged by the BBC to be an appropriate impartial person to also host Newsnight? Beyond belief. After "hosting a show about the effect that political campaigning, naming no names, had on yesterdays murder" in which he kept saying that it was right to speculate on the motives of the killer because if the killer had been a moslem that fact would have been stated early in the news reports..........
It will have a huge affect on us. It will mean big tax rises and/or further deep cuts.
As we know the UK is also a net importer of EU goods, so that's bad news for EU economies. And the EU is a big importer of Chinese and Japanese goods. And so on. It's not as if confidence is currently anything other than very fragile.
I am not saying it would have no effect. Of course it will. But it is not in and of itself a big enough event to change the global economy seen in linear terms, and it is not a tipping point event either.
So, yes, some effect, with the strongest effects in the UK and our top EU trading partners, in that order. But a threat to the overall global economy. No. That will be driven in the short term by what happens in China and India, given the US economy is currently in no shape to play locomotive.
From 2015 result, if the Tories don't stand in Batley and Spen and UKIP does you could actually envisage a UKIP win (Tories were 6,000 votes behind Labour with UKIP 12,000 votesbehind in 2015)
Corbyn won't mention the referendum one little bit - and I expect he will have agreement from Cameron to do the same.
Corbyn cannot and will not join any campaign with Cameron over the EU - whilst both advocate Remain it is for different reasons to different ends. However, both of them speaking about public service which entirely transcends party politics, that could be powerful.
'Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.'
Corbyn is her party leader. of course he needs to be there.
Cameron is PM.
@paulwaugh: Speaker Bercow and the local chaplain will also join Corbyn, who is leading the event, and the PM, I'm told
I have said upthread, more than once, I would like to see Cameron and Boris discussing the campaigns, but today is not the day, and Birstall is not the place.
Comments
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
https://twitter.com/claudiamassie/status/743762135109361666
There may be some who are overwrought with emotion, if they don't want to do anything for a few days then that should be their decision. Offer them counselling and support if needed. But it shouldn't be a decision made for everyone.
It's about not allowing a sort of emotional bullying of those not personally affected to develop, and to avoid even the faintest suspicion that it might be being done for partisan advantage.
The proper response is to allow her family and friends and colleagues to mourn her in peace and privacy and to carry on in the best traditions of our democracy as one would expect she, as an MP, would have wanted. But regardless, we carry on. That's all.
Is PB so beyond the pale that it accuses people it doesn't know of lying about their grief for a murdered colleague who could have been any of them, just to have an excuse to say Tories Good, Labour Bad?
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/743766906998501376
As for the campaigns being suspended, well Jean-Claude Juncker intervened even before Jo Cox's death was announced, and Christine "Up in court for corruption" Lagarde has been active too.
What has happened, and this is important, because Leave surged into the lead after the TV shows of 7 and 9 June, is that Question Time was cancelled.
On the other side of the coin, to judge by the Daily Mail's cover, the Leavite media is continuing the fight, which makes me think that Leave is still a buy and may well still win. As I've said before, there could be more and bigger fireworks.
Polly Toynbee's disgraceful article saying dirty scary plebs mustn't be allowed a say on immigration, because they'll be bound to get their pitchforks out and stick them up the political class, is only an instance of preaching to the converted. The DM and a fortiori the Sun are far more important when elections and referendums come than the Guardian.
I don't mind a pause but it shouldn't go on too long.
You see Brexit will lead to an economic shock, prolonged by years of political and economic uncertainty. Except this'll be worse than 2008 because we are in a much weaker fiscal position to deal with this kind of shock. And Darling's prediction that emergency budgets will need to be implemented annually will come to light as our economy falters annually, backed by weakening in assets across the board, rising imported inflation and higher interest rates.
Darling rightly called the 2008 crash, he dealt with the after effects well, and he is the politician I think who has more integrity than any other.
And as our public services suffer, and people get poorer- who will we blame? Migrants and Europe. The Out campaign has already scapegoated them so far, quite successfully. 2020 will be a fertile ground for extremist politics, the hard left and the hard right- but there will be no hearing for people like me.
Isn't Cameron supposed to be doing Question Time on Sunday evening? That's his last big opportunity to "pitch" to the country.
Cameron and Corbyn to make an unprecedented joint statement together in Birstall on #JoCoxMP killing. Will ask the nation to unite.
I can understand them doing this, but they both should be very careful to not politicise this for the REMAIN campaign.
Cameron and Corbyn to make an unprecedented joint statement together in Birstall on #JoCoxMP killing. Will ask the nation to unite.
This is not the same situation. The purpose of the Brighton bomb was to bring down the government, in which case the right response was to show the business of Government continued unabated.
While we do not yet know the motive for this attack, I think it is reasonable to assume it was not to derail the referendum (despite the wilder false flag theories being spouted) so carrying on is not a defiant show of resilience in the face of aggression
On the other hand, while there is the slightest suggestion that the attack was in any way motivated by the campaign (and the early stories suggest that there might be, YMMV), then suspending a campaign that has the potential to incite violence doesn't seem like an unreasonable move to me.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not advocating violence. I do wish anyone to come to harm.
I think suspending the most poisonous and rancorous campaign of my lifetime is a wise precaution. It won't swing the vote, either way
I would be content if the campaigns never restarted and we just vote and move on
It was a vile tasteless hateful racist poster. But the notion it was copied from an obscure image we'd never seen before rather than the most famous poster of all time is a leap.
5m
Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
In 1990, after the murder of Ian Gow, his Eastbourne seat was contested and taken by the LibDems
You can argue that the result of the Eastbourne by-election helped in part to topple Mrs Thatcher.
Well, it's a theory.
This is the most important vote in a generation. The campaign must continue and restart at 9am tomorrow.
I get the sense Sean from your posts that you are at least quite realistic about what the economic prospects could be post Brexit, unlike others who seem to think that we'll have all this extra cash.
I am not scaremongering BTW- I really do believe that post Brexit we will be plunged into an economic abyss. Political instability and economic instability are not good for capitalism.
Be careful what you wish for springs to mind. Supposing Brexit heralds in the hard left on a populist wave of state intervention, nationalisation, control of industry, attack on wealth. How would you feel then about Brexit? A price worth paying.
The Government of the day reacted correctly to an assault on Government.
Labour MPs are reacting to the death of a friend and colleague doing her job as they will continue to do.
These are very testing times for everyone, and everyone should be very careful about what they say.
The UK accounts for 4% of world economic output. I simply can't see how leaving the EU could trigger off global recession.
It's evil, it's tragic, but you can't put a target on the back of every MP next time and forever.
PS The Treasury central forecast was for a milder recession much milder than 2008.
I have to say that must join the long list of LD peskiness.... homophobic attacks on Tatchell, Jeremy Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Freud, Clegg's back track on tuition fees, the deposing of Kennedy....
If our growth goes from 2.5% to 1.0% or even disappears to 0 (i.e. will not talk of negative growth a la Brown), that per se will have minimal impact on the global economy, even with the inevitable ripple effects through nations with whom we trade most.
Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.
But, with a Brexit, the political and economic instability will continue for years. They will not go away, alienating foreign investment....and as we have seen time and time again, economic instability leads to extremism, left and right.
Umm.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-unfavorable-polls-224454
I have to say, for the first time I am thinking Trump will actually get thrashed in November. And I am pleased by the prospect.
Why the sudden change from thinking all outcomes possible from a Trump landslide to a Hillary one? Because, following his comments on the judge, even I (as a non-voter but a pretty strong anyone but Hillary believer) now think she is preferable to Trump. Any hope I had that securing the nomination and, ultimately the presidency, would see him shift from provocateur to responsible leader/manager have been dashed.
The man is simply dangerous. Dangerous in that he could start wars. Dangerous in what he could do to democracy and the separation of powers. He must be stopped at all costs.
As we know the UK is also a net importer of EU goods, so that's bad news for EU economies. And the EU is a big importer of Chinese and Japanese goods. And so on. It's not as if confidence is currently anything other than very fragile.
If one of your friends has been murdered would you really want or feel able to face the public? This is personal for a lot of people.
Just logged back in to agree with SeanT: this is nuts. Totally insane.
It's a tragedy but it must not and cannot be allowed to upset the vote. The campaign must resume at 9am tomorrow.
Parliament can be recalled after the referendum for tributes.
I don't think you can reasonably expect people to campaign when one of their close friends and colleagues has been murdered by a member of the public.
If someone close to me had died, let alone murdered, I would not want to go out. Would you?
Compare and contrast with the Tory party, after the Brighton bomb. LOTS of people were killed and injured, it was an assault on an entire government - and the conference went ahead the next day. Even as people bled in hospital.
That's British grit. That is democracy. That's what we are meant to be.
Well quite. When there's an attack on us - we carry on. What we don't do is claim faux overwhelming grief for someone we worked with for about a year.
Her family and very closest friends deserve to have their heartfelt loss respected - not diluted by a load of others using her tragic death for their own ends.
18 hours ago, ories Good, Labour Bad?
Horrible, isn't it?
I am really at a loss to see the lack of thought or sympathy mainly from leavers on this site for Jo and I do believe that they are in a minority and the ordinary decency of the public will shine through.
If that's aimed at me you can jolly well Sod Off. I think her murder was grotesque. I posted last night about the awful thought of her kids being told about their Mum. Unbearable. As a father I don't even like to think about it....
BUT WE ARE DEMOCRATS. We do not let violence stop or even deviate our politics. That is the whole point of democracy. Reaching political ends by fair and non violent means. How people cannot see that is beyond me.
Let the campaign continue. And now I am in danger of losing my rag so I will go have a swim in the Calabrian sun. I will be glad when this referendum is over.
Ciao.
It was not at you specifically, it was directed at those who seem to have a desire to campaign irrespective of the 'right thing to do' - I agree that the sooner it is over the better
Behind one is some one using the murder of Jo Cox to further their political agenda, behind the other two are people saying it was the act of a mentally ill man.
I choose door one, the host opens door three to reveal raging Europhile leftie James O'Brien on LBC hosting a show about the effect that political campaigning, naming no names, had on yesterdays murder.
Do I switch?
There was some soul searching within the LDs as well but both we and Labour decided at the time we did a greater disservice to the memory of Ian Gow by allowing the terrorists to believe their actions could undermine the democratic process.
Had Airey Neave not been murdered with an election already pending, I'm sure other parties would have contested the seat.
I think it wholly appropriate the seat should be contested and the normal business of politics resumes and thrives while at the same time remembering and respecting the memory of Jo Cox.
'I have to say that must join the long list of LD peskiness.... homophobic attacks on Tatchell, Jeremy Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Freud, Clegg's back track on tuition fees, the deposing of Kennedy....'
For a minor party they are way over their baggage allowance..
What hyperbolic tosh.
All the evidence suggests they'd be shellacked there anyway.
'Again if any individual MP does not feel like campaigning I would respect that. That should be an individual's choice, it shouldn't be chosen on behalf of everyone.'
Spot on.
So, yes, some effect, with the strongest effects in the UK and our top EU trading partners, in that order. But a threat to the overall global economy. No. That will be driven in the short term by what happens in China and India, given the US economy is currently in no shape to play locomotive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batley_and_Spen_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
Corbyn cannot and will not join any campaign with Cameron over the EU - whilst both advocate Remain it is for different reasons to different ends. However, both of them speaking about public service which entirely transcends party politics, that could be powerful.
Corbyn is her party leader. of course he needs to be there.
Cameron is PM.
@paulwaugh: Speaker Bercow and the local chaplain will also join Corbyn, who is leading the event, and the PM, I'm told
I have said upthread, more than once, I would like to see Cameron and Boris discussing the campaigns, but today is not the day, and Birstall is not the place.