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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voters’ misconceptions could win this for Leave

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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. Urquhart, depends if they attribute low sales to the weird distribution method or not, as that seems to be the issue.

    There'll be another Witcher game (perhaps without Geralt), I think. It's got rave reviews and sold, I think, very well indeed. And rightly so, it's a staggeringly good game.

    I quite like the episodic idea & the fact they produce new missions for existing maps. It is like an interactive TV show. It seems like a really interesting model of game where you have constantly evolving tasks within the computer generated world.
    The trouble is it comes across as being an oddly implemented MMO. I didn't find the concept interesting on announcement, and still don't. However, different strokes etc.
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    I see the John and Tony show went down well

    DUP MP Nigel Dodds

    “Surely this is the most irresponsible talk that can be perpetuated in terms of Northern Ireland – very dangerous, destabilising and it should not be happening,”

    Nigel is a Brexiteer. He and the DUP will not like it as it will strengthen the remain vote in the audience they were speaking to.

    It does look as if there is now a full frontal co-ordinated attack on leave, which is going to be coming from many directions, not just blue on blue. Nicola Sturgeon and Angela Eagle v Boris tonight, Corbyn' TV debate to young people on the 20th, and Khan v Boris towards the end of the campaign. Many on here last night dismissed Sarah Wollaston as a non story and I did warn that it would be huge today on the broadcast media. It has and in spades but what on earth has possessed leave to accuse her of not wanting to put more money in the NHS. She is chair of the Health Select Committee and that comment is an avoidable own goal and has been called out by the Sky reporter
    ??????????

    That's plain nuts.

    The DUP are the largest party and their people turn out to vote. The nationalists don't like british PMs telling them what to do. can't see that helping Remain

    The analysis in Ulster was they came over to NI because they couldn't go to Scotland or fear of upsetting the locals. I suspect they'll piss a lot of the NI locals off.
    The reports are that they were speaking to the substantial remain vote and the obvious fears over the shared border
    Im sure they were, but that they felt they needed to go there and say things the unionists would find imflammatory and the nationalists patronising shows how worried Remain are.

    I reckon their private polling and canvas returns must be dire.
    I think the last 48 hours will have seen a change and the Wollaston story together with a labour Brexiteer defecting to remain over the immigration issues with leave, will change the narrative. It may take a while to show in the polls but the momentum may be shifting
    Just like it did after Obama had them all swooning....?
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,042
    edited June 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Don't forget that if you vote to "remain" then you'll be responsible for the complete and total destruction of the green belt as a hundred million immigrants flock here within the next 20 years - whereas if you "leave" then the total and complete collapse of the economy is coming which will make Mugabe's Zimbabwe look like a model state.

    That's a very good summary. Bet accordingly!!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Direct quote only please, ta.

    “The nuclear bomb this time would be about Cologne,” he told the Telegraph. Women may be at a particular risk from the “cultural” differences between British society and migrants, after gangs of migrant men allegedly launched a mass sexual attack against hundreds of women in Germany last New Year’s Eve, he said.

    “There are some very big cultural issues,” he said. Asked whether mass sex attacks on the scale of Cologne could happen in Britain, Mr Farage replied: “It depends if they get EU passports. It depends if we vote for Brexit or not. It is an issue.”
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    I am looking to see how much the tarrif on food is - I guess the goverment gets it - and how the total import levey is compared to CAP for uk farmers. Because if you take CAP out I am not sure that the EU spend has any value at all.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    I see the John and Tony show went down well

    DUP MP Nigel Dodds

    “Surely this is the most irresponsible talk that can be perpetuated in terms of Northern Ireland – very dangerous, destabilising and it should not be happening,”

    Nigel is a Brexiteer. He and the DUP will not like it as it will strengthen the remain vote in the audience they were speaking to.

    It does look as if there is now a full frontal co-ordinated attack on leave, which is going to be coming from many directions, not just blue on blue. Nicola Sturgeon and Angela Eagle v Boris tonight, Corbyn' TV debate to young people on the 20th, and Khan v Boris towards the end of the campaign. Many on here last night dismissed Sarah Wollaston as a non story and I did warn that it would be huge today on the broadcast media. It has and in spades but what on earth has possessed leave to accuse her of not wanting to put more money in the NHS. She is chair of the Health Select Committee and that comment is an avoidable own goal and has been called out by the Sky reporter
    ??????????

    That's plain nuts.

    The DUP are the largest party and their people turn out to vote. The nationalists don't like british PMs telling them what to do. can't see that helping Remain

    The analysis in Ulster was they came over to NI because they couldn't go to Scotland or fear of upsetting the locals. I suspect they'll piss a lot of the NI locals off.
    The reports are that they were speaking to the substantial remain vote and the obvious fears over the shared border
    Im sure they were, but that they felt they needed to go there and say things the unionists would find imflammatory and the nationalists patronising shows how worried Remain are.

    I reckon their private polling and canvas returns must be dire.
    I think the last 48 hours will have seen a change and the Wollaston story together with a labour Brexiteer defecting to remain over the immigration issues with leave, will change the narrative. It may take a while to show in the polls but the momentum may be shifting
    Just like it did after Obama had them all swooning....?
    Or the IMF report.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, depends if they attribute low sales to the weird distribution method or not, as that seems to be the issue.

    There'll be another Witcher game (perhaps without Geralt), I think. It's got rave reviews and sold, I think, very well indeed. And rightly so, it's a staggeringly good game.

    I quite like the episodic idea & the fact they produce new missions for existing maps. It is like an interactive TV show. It seems like a really interesting model of game where you have constantly evolving tasks within the computer generated world.
    The trouble is it comes across as being an oddly implemented MMO. I didn't find the concept interesting on announcement, and still don't. However, different strokes etc.
    I don't think it can be described as an mmo...it might actually be even more interesting if it was & you could gang up as hit men & women to take somebody down by having to coordinate various tasks...as would be most likely in real life if you wanted to murder a high profile individual.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Scott_P said:

    Balckburn's 14/1 looking perilous...

    @sarahwollaston: To be clear, 1.I have not asked for or been offered any Govt post 2.I have not deleted any of my EU tweets 3. I am not auditioning for 007

    Except we can no longer trust a word she says.
    I am sure Dr Wollaston has been acting from the highest principles throughout, but it does seem to follow that she's been remarkably blinkered to the scope of the issue we're about to vote on. Still is, in fact. Her judgment up to yesterday was that it would be in the best interests of the UK to leave the EU; and now it's all about the NHS alone.

    I find it very puzzling.

    (edited to add: good afternoon, everyone)
    It is not just the NHS alone, she is expressing concern on the economic impact and is also unhappy at the way leave are dealing with the immigration issue.
    I can understand anyone (even an MP!) changing her mind, being swayed by arguments, etc. What I find hard to understand is anyone at all joining a campaign on either side without having listened to the arguments, thought through the issues and arriving at a settled view.

    Perhaps Dr Wollaston has been too focussed on the NHS to give thought to the wider issues until this week.

    Later on, she may find herself unhappy at the way Remain are dealing one or more of their primary issues.
    Listening to her quiet and reasoned arguments today she is firmly a remainer and carries creditability not only as chair of Health Select Committee but as a GP. Also the newly announced defection of a labour Brexiteer to remain over race concerns with leave is not a good picture for their campaign
    I absolutely agree that she carries credibility; also that this is a severe blow to the Leave side.

    However firmly Dr Wollaston may be in favour of Remain today, she left her change of mind so late that some of those who have wished to be guided by her considered opinions will have already been guided by her to vote Leave.


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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    GIN1138 said:

    VoteLeave must be absolutely incandescent with rage at Nigel Farage. They had a good week last week, with immigration and a "points based" system and one inappropriate comment from Farage has completely changed the debate.

    I missed this. What did he say?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/04/nigel-farage-migrants-could-pose-sex-attack-threat-to-britain/
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Pulpstar said:

    Don't forget that if you vote to "remain" then you'll be responsible for the complete and total destruction of the green belt as a hundred million immigrants flock here within the next 20 years - whereas if you "leave" then the total and complete collapse of the economy is coming which will make Mugabe's Zimbabwe look like a model state.

    I've just had a wild thought. What if all this immigration is actually a long con to get us a majority of seats in the EU Pariament? The vote to install Elizabeth as Empress of Europe will then be a formality :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    One would expect postal vote returns to be more "Remain" based on the fact ABs use them the most, however they tend also to be used by older people which may cancel it out.

    "Remain" is f*cked if it is behind on the postal count.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Pulpstar said:

    Don't forget that if you vote to "remain" then you'll be responsible for the complete and total destruction of the green belt as a hundred million immigrants flock here within the next 20 years - whereas if you "leave" then the total and complete collapse of the economy is coming which will make Mugabe's Zimbabwe look like a model state.

    The referendum really has become a competition in who can produce the biggest piece of bullshit.

    Voting surely is unnecessary. We just weigh the bullshit.

    The campaign with the heaviest bullshit wins.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Oh moeen gone & done a moeen...20 odd nice looking runs & then gone.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Scott_P said:

    @KateEMcCann: Mahmood said he was offended by "racist" Leave announcements on Turkey and "disappointed" by Boris comments on Obama https://t.co/bdcE38UEtS

    Oh dear - it's gonna be a rough night on here CCCOOONNSSSPPPIIIRRRAAACCCYYYYYYYY!!
    Remain are going to win this referendum by 80% to Leave's 20%

    Remain are so professional with their campaign and sleeper agents.

    With MI7 on their side, Dave can put his feet up for the next fortnight.
    As a fellow PB Tory, I take it you've seen the arranged vote tallies? Bet accordingly :)
    I have a hunch-man that the votes are all being 'counted' in Finchley Road.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    VoteLeave must be absolutely incandescent with rage at Nigel Farage. They had a good week last week, with immigration and a "points based" system and one inappropriate comment from Farage has completely changed the debate.

    Actually, I'm not too worried about it. Boris is the biggest public face of Leave in this campaign, not Farage, and such is the interest in him tomorrow the story should shift to tonight's debate.

    AFAIK, the last big TV appearance of Farage is tomorrow night's BBC1 Andrew Neil, and nothing after that.

    However, there is a risk he appears at the final BBC Wembley debate on 21st June (which will be huge) and both Remain and Leave.EU have every interest in getting him there.

    Vote Leave will be doing their best to stop it, and suggest Carswell or Evans for UKIP instead.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    Robert Oxley, vote leave, having a panic attack on BBC news
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    There goes Ali. He still can't work out where in the order to bat.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    MP_SE said:

    I really wish those fucking idiots at Vote Leave adopted the Norway Model instead of this current shambles where their British Model or whatever it is can be constantly attacked. O well, I'll be up about 5k should Remain win so not the end of the world.

    Let's see what line Vote Leave adopt tonight. I expect a change of tack.

    I think it will be very interesting.
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    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    as yet they havent been counted?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    JohnO said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Scott_P said:

    @KateEMcCann: Mahmood said he was offended by "racist" Leave announcements on Turkey and "disappointed" by Boris comments on Obama https://t.co/bdcE38UEtS

    Oh dear - it's gonna be a rough night on here CCCOOONNSSSPPPIIIRRRAAACCCYYYYYYYY!!
    Remain are going to win this referendum by 80% to Leave's 20%

    Remain are so professional with their campaign and sleeper agents.

    With MI7 on their side, Dave can put his feet up for the next fortnight.
    As a fellow PB Tory, I take it you've seen the arranged vote tallies? Bet accordingly :)
    I have a hunch-man that the votes are all being 'counted' in Finchley Road.
    A sensible place, given the distribution of electors :)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    VoteLeave must be absolutely incandescent with rage at Nigel Farage. They had a good week last week, with immigration and a "points based" system and one inappropriate comment from Farage has completely changed the debate.

    Utter rubbish. Vote Leave and their utterly sh*t campaign (sorry Plato, but it is) have only themselves to blame. It was utterly stupid to imagine that they could sweep Nigel under the carpet, and that the other kids would play nice with them if they did. Instead, they should have done everything in their power to integrate him into their campaign, so everyone could at least have attempted to sing from the same hymn sheet. They were always going to lump him in with the Leave campaign regardless of official status.
    Trouble isn't what Nigel said (he actually made some good points on Tuesday) it's his tone and how he says it.

    His ego is so big he can't take any feedback though and believes his own mythology.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979
    Obvious joke - aren't all elections determined by the misconceptions of voters?

    More seriously, I'm more interested in politics than most people, presumably better informed about minutiae at least, but I've no doubt I'm completely mistaken about something I regard as important to where I fall on a given issue, so it is not surprising there are many misconceptions. This highlights some Leave ones, but there are Remain ones - such as remainers who think we're maintaining some sort of status quo if we Remain - so I'd think it mostly balances out.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    We need Ruth Davidson and that bloke from Labour list to "verify the figures" for us I think.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sandpit said:

    felix said:

    Louise Mensch seems to have spent the whole day retweeting all of Wollaston's twitter timeline.

    She is that highly principled girl who gave up her marginal seat early on in the last govt and gifted the by-election to Labour.
    Don't go there, I didn't bloody knock on doors for her so she could run off after a couple of years. Grr.
    I hear you.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2016

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Apparently physical copies on games, even consoles are in the minority now & there is only one direction of travel. I think physical copies will become like vinyls for records, now made as collector items not mass market.

    Even physical copies are increasingly becoming just the exe to start the download rather than the actual game. Also increasingly companies are selling "early access" & using that money to,continue to develop the game eg h1z1.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    He can get away with it as long as he's not posting actual vote numbers.

    One can well believe that a lot of Leave voters voted early, their minds already made up.
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    I do wonder whether Leave have been deliberately quiet this week. There doesn't appear to be much messaging coming from their side at all. I actually think there may be a danger in doing too well too soon. When a couple of polls came out putting Leave ahead, the pound fell, and that's far more likely to scare people than the current bollocks about Ireland, or tomorrow's inevitable Remain story about giant insects feeding off our children in the event of Brexit, or whatever tale they have in store.

    Best thing for leave is a surge in the last week, so any stories about the pound falling are kept out of the headlines.

    Alternatively this could all be wishful thinking, and Vote Leave is run by a gang of clueless idiots, but I’d like to think otherwise.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979

    Pulpstar said:

    Don't forget that if you vote to "remain" then you'll be responsible for the complete and total destruction of the green belt as a hundred million immigrants flock here within the next 20 years - whereas if you "leave" then the total and complete collapse of the economy is coming which will make Mugabe's Zimbabwe look like a model state.

    The referendum really has become a competition in who can produce the biggest piece of bullshit.

    Voting surely is unnecessary. We just weigh the bullshit.

    The campaign with the heaviest bullshit wins.
    Absurd. It's the stink factor, the quality, which should determine which bullshit wins, not the quantity.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,020
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    Yep but also obvious.. Leave votes will have filled in and returned their votes, those not so bothered will not have done...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Alternatively this could all be wishful thinking, and Vote Leave is run by a gang of clueless idiots, but I’d like to think otherwise.

    Certainly no sign of the "economic plan" Gove promised us
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    Bordering on? Isn't this 100% illegal? (or it's just bull, of course - nothing illegal about pretending!)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Wego, welcome to the site.

    That may be true.

    Mr. Urquhart, humbug!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    felix said:

    Louise Mensch seems to have spent the whole day retweeting all of Wollaston's twitter timeline.

    She is that highly principled girl who gave up her marginal seat early on in the last govt and gifted the by-election to Labour.
    Don't go there, I didn't bloody knock on doors for her so she could run off after a couple of years. Grr.
    I hear you.
    Miss Bagshawe (as she was) will be a politics trivia question in years to come - where have there been four different MPs for the same constituency since the beginning of 2010? Not sure anywhere else has had four.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979


    There'll be another Witcher game (perhaps without Geralt), I think. It's got rave reviews and sold, I think, very well indeed. And rightly so, it's a staggeringly good game.

    I had thought it was always the plan to have more, while stating the Geralt story was done - no sense letting that world building go to waste! Each game has been a marked improvement on the previous (the first was honestly pretty so-so in every way), so if they can keep that trend up it'll be remarkably good whatever they do.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    When people ask valve if / when they might make a new half life the answer is..."when I have finished counting this enormous & ever growing pile of money!"
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    Yep but also obvious.. Leave votes will have filled in and returned their votes, those not so bothered will not have done...
    Leave will be ahead on postal votes, remain ahaed on the day. Will just come down to get the vote out. A lot of people in London are buying into the deep recession if we leave, which is really har for Vote Leave to counter when they have the BoE IMF etc against them.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979
    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Post in haste as have an evening thing I need to change for.

    Had lunch today with some one very senior (not a politician but has operated at the top level for the last 20 years). Knows all of the potential runners to replace Cameron very well.

    His assessment, FWIW, is May. Everyone else has too many enemies.
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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Just listened to Sarah Wollaston on LBC. My goodness, she waffled for England. I'm not convinced and feel this story will unravel as time goes on.

    I think the bigger story is Major and Blair stirring up the Northern Ireland troubles. What an insult to the Irish people after all they have been through for all those years.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Interestingly same people behind GoG as the witcher series...history repeating itself?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Charles said:

    Post in haste as have an evening thing I need to change for.

    Had lunch today with some one very senior (not a politician but has operated at the top level for the last 20 years). Knows all of the potential runners to replace Cameron very well.

    His assessment, FWIW, is May. Everyone else has too many enemies.

    Splendid :D
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    PAW said:

    Scott_P - but you are counting the money coming from the EU as actually useful - why would you want money spent on set aside for example? Or building a 2nd Forth road bridge?

    Forth bridge is far better value for me than having to pay for London crossrail. I may actually use the bridge.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Apparently physical copies on games, even consoles are in the minority now & there is only one direction of travel. I think physical copies will become like vinyls for records, now made as collector items not mass market.

    Even physical copies are increasingly becoming just the exe to start the download rather than the actual game. Also increasingly companies are selling "early access" & using that money to,continue to develop the game eg h1z1.
    Yeah, two big bugbears that put me off modern gaming. Buy a box on day one to find a 3GB download that a million people are all trying to do at the same time, or pushing games out to a deadline with no QA and hundreds of bugs, because they can 'just' patch them later and have their paying customers do the QA for them.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    edited June 2016
    Mr. kle4, yeah, that's my understanding. It'll be interesting to see whether they have a defined character as the protagonist, or if they go for a player-created character. Generally I like making my own character, but the defined approach worked very well in The Witcher 3.

    Mr. M, you decadent neo-technophile heathen!

    Edited extra bit: removed a name to avoid potential spoilers.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Apparently physical copies on games, even consoles are in the minority now & there is only one direction of travel. I think physical copies will become like vinyls for records, now made as collector items not mass market.

    Even physical copies are increasingly becoming just the exe to start the download rather than the actual game. Also increasingly companies are selling "early access" & using that money to,continue to develop the game eg h1z1.
    Yeah, two big bugbears that put me off modern gaming. Buy a box on day one to find a 3GB download that a million people are all trying to do at the same time, or pushing games out to a deadline with no QA and hundreds of bugs, because they can 'just' patch them later and have their paying customers do the QA for them.
    Sounds like you have played some Paradox Interactive games :D
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    Charles said:

    Post in haste as have an evening thing I need to change for.

    Had lunch today with some one very senior (not a politician but has operated at the top level for the last 20 years). Knows all of the potential runners to replace Cameron very well.

    His assessment, FWIW, is May. Everyone else has too many enemies.

    Agree, May is up there but Hammond equally who is also a fraction more eurosceptic than her
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Sandpit, I really dislike using day one patches as a crutch for incomplete games.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Charles said:

    Post in haste as have an evening thing I need to change for.

    Had lunch today with some one very senior (not a politician but has operated at the top level for the last 20 years). Knows all of the potential runners to replace Cameron very well.

    His assessment, FWIW, is May. Everyone else has too many enemies.

    Still 7/1 to be next PM. Have I mentioned that before? ;)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    PAW said:

    Scott_P - but you are counting the money coming from the EU as actually useful - why would you want money spent on set aside for example? Or building a 2nd Forth road bridge?

    Forth bridge is far better value for me than having to pay for London crossrail. I may actually use the bridge.
    Indeed - particularly as the Holyrood types have slashed the maintenance budget on the old one and it's now knackered.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Steam is fantastic. It's come a long, long way from the early days. I love being able to stream from my top-of-the-line desktop to my wheezing old laptop, I can enjoy the illusion of being outdoors while idling my life away :).
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    One would expect postal vote returns to be more "Remain" based on the fact ABs use them the most, however they tend also to be used by older people which may cancel it out.

    "Remain" is f*cked if it is behind on the postal count.
    The elderly get postal votes in the earliest so they should favour Leave for now
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    Bordering on? Isn't this 100% illegal? (or it's just bull, of course - nothing illegal about pretending!)
    That was Ruthie's excuse when caught
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Steam is fantastic. It's come a long, long way from the early days. I love being able to stream from my top-of-the-line desktop to my wheezing old laptop, I can enjoy the illusion of being outdoors while idling my life away :).
    Proud owner of a Steam account from 2003. :D
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Apparently physical copies on games, even consoles are in the minority now & there is only one direction of travel. I think physical copies will become like vinyls for records, now made as collector items not mass market.

    Even physical copies are increasingly becoming just the exe to start the download rather than the actual game. Also increasingly companies are selling "early access" & using that money to,continue to develop the game eg h1z1.
    Yeah, two big bugbears that put me off modern gaming. Buy a box on day one to find a 3GB download that a million people are all trying to do at the same time, or pushing games out to a deadline with no QA and hundreds of bugs, because they can 'just' patch them later and have their paying customers do the QA for them.
    That killed early sales of xbox one...you couldn't even do anything on it until you had patched it. This is why I quite like this episodic release idea, rather than desperately trying to finish a game bugs & all, to then push a mega patch, companies can concentrate on making everything they release work & then adding on...rather than a patch a day approach.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Post in haste as have an evening thing I need to change for.

    Had lunch today with some one very senior (not a politician but has operated at the top level for the last 20 years). Knows all of the potential runners to replace Cameron very well.

    His assessment, FWIW, is May. Everyone else has too many enemies.

    Still 7/1 to be next PM. Have I mentioned that before? ;)
    He said he had a Wm Hill account... but couldn't remember the password!
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    An instruction book for a game? When did you last see one of those? I have one still on my shelves from the submarine game Dangerous Waters and it is about 1,000 pages but that game is circa late 1990's.

    The Strategy Guide series of books, filled a gap for a while but now if you want to know how to do something in a game, or how to complete a quest, then there are n dozen articles available through google and almost as many YouVideos. Reading a book is just so 20th century, Mr. Dancer.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Llama, you vulgar modernist.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Other comment from lunch is that of the 5 people (AB, London-centric, 3 in their 70s, 2 in their 40s) we have 4 for leave and 1 remain. 2 have voted already, another sending in his postal vote today.

    Absolutely not representative - one of the votes for leave was expecting remain to win but wanted to make sure not by too much - but always intriguing.

    [The Remainer was the one who was close to the governments...]
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Steam is fantastic. It's come a long, long way from the early days. I love being able to stream from my top-of-the-line desktop to my wheezing old laptop, I can enjoy the illusion of being outdoors while idling my life away :).
    Proud owner of a Steam account from 2003. :D
    2003, that's impressive. Most were 2004 for Half Life 2.
  • Options
    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Just heard an interesting statistic that GREAT Britain is 47% Eurosceptic and France is over 60% Eurosceptic. How ironic if we vote stay in and France has a referendum and votes out!
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/look-out-boris-johnson--downing-streets-assassins-are-out-to-get/

    "It’s quite plausible: the next Prime Minister will be chosen by Tory party members and they’ll probably back Brexit by a margin of two-to-one.

    They’re unlikely to forget being told by George Osborne that they are “economically illiterate” or that they are saboteurs who seek to “place a bomb” under their country.

    It’s hard to see the Chancellor, or anyone else, beating Boris in a leadership election. But if Remain wins, there may be enough time to stop Boris getting to the starting line."
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Just listened to Sarah Wollaston on LBC. My goodness, she waffled for England. I'm not convinced and feel this story will unravel as time goes on.

    I think the bigger story is Major and Blair stirring up the Northern Ireland troubles. What an insult to the Irish people after all they have been through for all those years.

    Heard a gentleman from the DUP carefully tearing the BBC interviewer to shreds on 5-live.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Steam is fantastic. It's come a long, long way from the early days. I love being able to stream from my top-of-the-line desktop to my wheezing old laptop, I can enjoy the illusion of being outdoors while idling my life away :).
    Proud owner of a Steam account from 2003. :D
    2003, that's impressive. Most were 2004 for Half Life 2.
    My steam ID suggests I'm the one of the first 3000 people to have an account. You're talking to a proper old timer here ;)
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Urquhart, it does look very good, but I'm old school. I want a physical copy. [And an instruction book. But they've stopped doing those...]

    Steam is the One True Way. I wouldn't take a physical copy of a game if you gave it to me. Unless the media were encrusted with diamonds or such.
    Steam is polluted with too much crap. GoG all the way.

    Or so I'm told.
    Steam is fantastic. It's come a long, long way from the early days. I love being able to stream from my top-of-the-line desktop to my wheezing old laptop, I can enjoy the illusion of being outdoors while idling my life away :).
    Proud owner of a Steam account from 2003. :D
    2003, that's impressive. Most were 2004 for Half Life 2.
    My steam ID suggests I'm the one of the first 3000 people to have an account. You're talking to a proper old timer here ;)
    You will be getting the gold watch for long service!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/look-out-boris-johnson--downing-streets-assassins-are-out-to-get/

    "It’s quite plausible: the next Prime Minister will be chosen by Tory party members and they’ll probably back Brexit by a margin of two-to-one.

    They’re unlikely to forget being told by George Osborne that they are “economically illiterate” or that they are saboteurs who seek to “place a bomb” under their country.

    It’s hard to see the Chancellor, or anyone else, beating Boris in a leadership election. But if Remain wins, there may be enough time to stop Boris getting to the starting line."

    Will Boris get the votes required to put him to the membership?
  • Options
    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Child, sound observation, as is one someone else made about winning cities and losing everywhere else is what did for Labour at the election.

    [Still think Remain will win. The octo-lemur claim it'll be 52% Leave].
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,993
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    He can get away with it as long as he's not posting actual vote numbers.

    One can well believe that a lot of Leave voters voted early, their minds already made up.
    It has to be bull. As I understand it the votes are just opened and verified at this time. They will not actually be counted until the night and that will be done at more than 300 counts around the country. I see absolutely no way on earth he could have any idea about what the postal votes are showing nationally.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    If they are repeatedly campaigning there, maybe. If it is the first big visit, I don't think much can be said.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    He can get away with it as long as he's not posting actual vote numbers.

    One can well believe that a lot of Leave voters voted early, their minds already made up.
    It has to be bull. As I understand it the votes are just opened and verified at this time. They will not actually be counted until the night and that will be done at more than 300 counts around the country. I see absolutely no way on earth he could have any idea about what the postal votes are showing nationally.
    Isn't it that only the outer envelope is opened before polling day? He may be talking about number of votes rather than which way they have voted?
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    It's not First Past the Post though. Every vote counts.

    So getting NI and Scotland REMAINs up from 55% to 60% is worthwhile.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Just did a quick Google. It is estimated valve makes more than $750 million a year of which $330 million comes from selling other people's games on steam...Gabe must have swimming pools filled with $20 notes than water!!!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    edited June 2016
    TGOHF said:

    Genius..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/09/brexit-might-trigger-run-on-britains-record-financial-debts-sp-w/

    Britain is the world’s most vulnerable state on a key measure of short-term debt and credit markets might suddenly seize up if voters opt for Brexit, Standard & Poor’s has warned.

    I wish I had a pound for every time somebody supporting Remain used " could" or "might". These two words have been utterly debased by the campaign....we won't be able to use them again for decades.

    Or it might be that we could. Who knows?
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Looks like leave coming back in a tad on betfair.
  • Options

    VoteLeave must be absolutely incandescent with rage at Nigel Farage. They had a good week last week, with immigration and a "points based" system and one inappropriate comment from Farage has completely changed the debate.

    Conventional wisdom says its a setback but just talking about immigration keeps it uppermost in voters minds and links it more strongly with the EU.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    Just did a quick Google. It is estimated valve makes more than $750 million a year of which $330 million comes from selling other people's games on steam...Gabe must have swimming pools filled with $20 notes than water!!!

    Praise GabeN. He's a billionaire, not sure if he's reached the double digits though.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Just did a quick Google. It is estimated valve makes more than $750 million a year of which $330 million comes from selling other people's games on steam...Gabe must have swimming pools filled with $20 notes than water!!!

    Yeah, they've cornered the market very well. I think only Apple (and maybe Google) sell more software through their store.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    If they are repeatedly campaigning there, maybe. If it is the first big visit, I don't think much can be said.
    Fair point. Be interesting to see a map of visits of the leading players over the last week.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979
    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    Just did a quick Google. It is estimated valve makes more than $750 million a year of which $330 million comes from selling other people's games on steam...Gabe must have swimming pools filled with $20 notes than water!!!

    Praise GabeN. He's a billionaire, not sure if he's reached the double digits though.
    Not sure I am ready to forgive him just yet, he was involved with Windows 3.1 ;-)
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2016
    kle4 said:

    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?

    Depends what you want it for. How concerned you are about logging. If you want continued iplayer access. How cost sensitive you are.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    RobD said:

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    If they are repeatedly campaigning there, maybe. If it is the first big visit, I don't think much can be said.
    Fair point. Be interesting to see a map of visits of the leading players over the last week.
    Yep! I remember the telegraph had a map like that for the GE.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,993
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    Bordering on illegal there!
    He can get away with it as long as he's not posting actual vote numbers.

    One can well believe that a lot of Leave voters voted early, their minds already made up.
    It has to be bull. As I understand it the votes are just opened and verified at this time. They will not actually be counted until the night and that will be done at more than 300 counts around the country. I see absolutely no way on earth he could have any idea about what the postal votes are showing nationally.
    Isn't it that only the outer envelope is opened before polling day? He may be talking about number of votes rather than which way they have voted?
    I agree but the intimation was that the early postal returns had either panicked or encouraged No 10. Not sure how he could reach that conclusion based solely on how many had been returned.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thequentinletts: Heard an intriguing rumour last night about Out/In percentages in early postal-vote returns.

    @thequentinletts: Further rumours reach me of postal vote early returns. They may explain the recent acceleration in activity by Downing St.

    One would expect postal vote returns to be more "Remain" based on the fact ABs use them the most, however they tend also to be used by older people which may cancel it out.

    "Remain" is f*cked if it is behind on the postal count.
    I would've thought postal votes would heavily skew "Leave", since it's mostly older people using them AND the very enthusiastic who can't wait til polling day.

    The only main "Remain" group who'll be disproportionately using postal votes would be expats, I would've thought.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sandpit said:


    Yeah, two big bugbears that put me off modern gaming. Buy a box on day one to find a 3GB download that a million people are all trying to do at the same time, or pushing games out to a deadline with no QA and hundreds of bugs, because they can 'just' patch them later and have their paying customers do the QA for them.

    Fair comment, Mr. Sandpit, but if you are going to talk about modern gaming than one should not ignore the Mod movement, something unheard of not that many years ago. Take Skyrim when it firsts came out I put far too much time into it (more than 1500 hours on two play throughs), all great fun but it left me wanting in certain areas. Last year, I discovered Mods - free amateur produced bits of code that changed the game to plug those weaknesses in the original game. As a result, a wholly new game experience, and another thousand hours of my life enjoyed in a game that I had written off.

    I am currently, exclusively, playing a flight sim That was originally produced by a Russian company and when released it was such a dog that the developers gave up on it. Since then modders across four continents have taken it in hand and it is now an awesome game, probably the best of its genre, and it is still being improved.

    Traditionalists, who want to buy a game, play it, mon about it, and then forget it (but get a nice manual) are missing out on this revolution in gaming.
  • Options

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    It's not First Past the Post though. Every vote counts.

    So getting NI and Scotland REMAINs up from 55% to 60% is worthwhile.
    True but I'd counter that your potential voter pool is smaller in your core areas (since you already have a good share) and wider in other areas. Your time, therefore, would be better spent elsewhere.

    If Boris / Farage were spending time in Essex / Lincs I'd say same about Leave.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,979

    kle4 said:

    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?

    Depends what you want it for. How concerned you are about logging. If you want continued iplayer access. How cost sensitive you are.
    Just curious if a good idea, A bit, not critical, a little but not hugely
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2016
    Financial illiteracy from a BBC political reporter. Norman Smith on R4 PM 5 mins ago.
    "Qn: What will the EU do if we LEAVE and end our payments?
    Ans: I dont think it will make much difference as they will be too distracted with all the other issues.."

    A £10 billion black hole in their funding is not much?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    kle4 said:

    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?

    Most of the good ones have stopped working recently, as far as content geoblocking (BBC, Netflix) goes.

    The "content industry" doesn't understand that if you treat your legitimate customers like that then most of them find "other" ways to watch what they want.

    The best VPN is one that's incoming to your house or office in the UK, easy to set up with a half decent router.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    kle4 said:

    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?

    Depends what you want it for. How concerned you are about logging. If you want continued iplayer access. How cost sensitive you are.
    MediaHint works great for me for iPlayer. Wish I could just pay the BBC for a subscription though...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2016
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Unconnected to anything else, anyone know what VPNs are worth using?

    Depends what you want it for. How concerned you are about logging. If you want continued iplayer access. How cost sensitive you are.
    Just curious if a good idea, A bit, not critical, a little but not hugely
    Good idea, definitely...I wouldn't surf publicly without it. Something like private Internet access is well regarded for general use & only $35-40 a year and same account can be used for all your devices.

    It is a little bit like how.long is a piece of string. Some provide more privacy, some more complicated to use & prices can vary from nothing to 100's per year.

    https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-anonymous-review-160220/
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Just heard an interesting statistic that GREAT Britain is 47% Eurosceptic and France is over 60% Eurosceptic. How ironic if we vote stay in and France has a referendum and votes out!


    I think that means 47% of Brits want to leave the EU and 60% of the french want the Brits to leave the EU. :)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Llama, if the rumours are true and Skyrim gets remastered for the PS4, with mod support, I might get it. If so, the Survival mode style mod could be of interest.

    Have you played Fallout 4 on Survival mode yet? I was pissed off with Curie the other day. I expertly infiltrated a well-defended base, then she wandered off and got in a firefight, which led to my death.

    Mr. Evershed, that's a good point.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:


    Yeah, two big bugbears that put me off modern gaming. Buy a box on day one to find a 3GB download that a million people are all trying to do at the same time, or pushing games out to a deadline with no QA and hundreds of bugs, because they can 'just' patch them later and have their paying customers do the QA for them.

    Fair comment, Mr. Sandpit, but if you are going to talk about modern gaming than one should not ignore the Mod movement, something unheard of not that many years ago. Take Skyrim when it firsts came out I put far too much time into it (more than 1500 hours on two play throughs), all great fun but it left me wanting in certain areas. Last year, I discovered Mods - free amateur produced bits of code that changed the game to plug those weaknesses in the original game. As a result, a wholly new game experience, and another thousand hours of my life enjoyed in a game that I had written off.

    I am currently, exclusively, playing a flight sim That was originally produced by a Russian company and when released it was such a dog that the developers gave up on it. Since then modders across four continents have taken it in hand and it is now an awesome game, probably the best of its genre, and it is still being improved.

    Traditionalists, who want to buy a game, play it, mon about it, and then forget it (but get a nice manual) are missing out on this revolution in gaming.
    A very good point. I've not been involved with Mod games but have done a bit of work with Linux and other open source software, with an active community of developers and super users. Often better support from communities than from a lot of the traditional software houses.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    'if you want to know who's winning look at where they are campaigning.'

    Remains efforts today in N Ireland and Scotland would be like a Tory focus in Surrey or Labour in Liverpool during a GE. Remain think they are losing. Thats todays big story.

    It's not First Past the Post though. Every vote counts.

    So getting NI and Scotland REMAINs up from 55% to 60% is worthwhile.
    It's the ultimate single constituency First Past The Post!
This discussion has been closed.