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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voters’ misconceptions could win this for Leave

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voters’ misconceptions could win this for Leave

This one of my favourite bits of regular polling. Ipsos Mori have compared the perceptions of the voters to the reality.  As we can see the voters’ think there’s more EU citizens here than there actually are. This might explain why Leave are focussing so heavily on immigration in the final few weeks.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    edited June 2016
    First, like the class of air travel I have yet to experience.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    2nd like Remain?
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    2
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Sensible words from Allister Heath to the Leave campaign. Let the other lot be the nasty ones.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/08/the-outers-must-ooze-compassion-and-reclaim-the-moral-high-groun/

    More of the likes of Gove and Hannan required, the relentlessly positive and polite.

    Absolutely.
    I wonder what Hannan makes of Vote Leave's focus on immigration, to be honest.
    Probably not a lot, but understands the need to appeal to all demographics in a referendum campaign.

    I love his opening debate line that he would like to be made redundant, has any politician ever said that before?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    It's almost as if banging on about getting down migration has led people to believe migration should be lower ;)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    TWO WEEKS TO SAVE THE E.U. PROJECT!
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Scott_P said:

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Couples "delaying babies because of fears over a Brexit" - extraordinary scoop from LSE prof & @opiniumresearch https://t.co/2UaT7aU8z2

    Extraordinary scoop from LSE Professor ..... whose work is funded by the European Union.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    I finally managed to get boobs into a PB thread header
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Dr. Prasannan, you're wrong. It's over. Whatever anyone thinks, whatever the rights and wrongs of it, the Stars Wars expanded universe is not considered canon.

    *sighs* Grand Admiral Thrawn should've been the antagonist in the new trilogy. At least he had a strategy that didn't involve building a Death Star.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    One for Mr Dancer: it seems that the F1 bods have finally worked out that the fans want to watch videos.

    The eleven victims of Canada's "Wall of Champions"
    http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2016/6/watch--11-infamous-crashes-at-canadas-wall-of-champions.html
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    'Born in another EU country' is highly misleading. Angela Merkel just let a million Muslims born in the Middle East into Germany. In less than 3 years they'll have German passports.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    If only Boris was good at spotting EU-myths.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    14/14 for me. Last one was tricky.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Is there a crapper bowling attack in test cricket than the current Sri Lanka offering?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Missed a lib dem and the baby - 12/14
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    Patrick said:

    'Born in another EU country' is highly misleading. Angela Merkel just let a million Muslims born in the Middle East into Germany. In less than 3 years they'll have German passports.

    Nonsense. You have to have lived in Germany for at least 8 years before you can apply for naturalisation, and then there are a whole load of other hoops to jump through.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Epping Forest and Grays follow ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Sandpit, interesting to see if Verstappen says hello to the wall.

    Very rarely visit the F1 website. I think the only time this year was for the Azerbaijan circuit diagram (as a Twitter person observed, it looks a bit like an old-fashioned razorblade).
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Need the ABs too.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Epping Forest and Grays follow ?
    And Ilford - maybe :lol:
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
    Gospel Oak to Barking Line suspended until early 2017 due to long-awaited electrification works.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Basildon and Thurrock will deliver huge wins for Leave.

    There is a by-election in Basildon tonight, in a Labour-held County Division, where UKIP just finished ahead in May. It will be interesting to see if locals treat this as part of the Referendum.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    Patrick said:

    'Born in another EU country' is highly misleading. Angela Merkel just let a million Muslims born in the Middle East into Germany. In less than 3 years they'll have German passports.

    Nonsense. You have to have lived in Germany for at least 8 years before you can apply for naturalisation, and then there are a whole load of other hoops to jump through.
    Five years to get naturalised citizenship in Germany.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Regarding question on immigration people don't / won't delinerate between eu & non-Eu immigration. All it is really doing is reflecting notion that a lot of people have that there is a significant proportion of the current population who are immigrants.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited June 2016
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Basildon and Thurrock will deliver huge wins for Leave.

    There is a by-election in Basildon tonight, in a Labour-held County Division, where UKIP just finished ahead in May. It will be interesting to see if locals treat this as part of the Referendum.
    Is there a more half hearted public supporter of "remain" than Jezza ?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Born in another country question is somewhat leading with its options is it not? I thought the evidence was that surveys with options like that lead people to choosing a "middle" option and with the answer being an extreme one people won't choose that.
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    blueburnblueburn Posts: 14
    What a shame they only covered the 'leave' myths and not the 'remain' myths.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Am going to be out sampling the delights of Chelmsford tomorrow evening - will attempt to measure the political winds if the flow of refreshments allow..
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Basildon and Thurrock will deliver huge wins for Leave.

    There is a by-election in Basildon tonight, in a Labour-held County Division, where UKIP just finished ahead in May. It will be interesting to see if locals treat this as part of the Referendum.
    Still laughing at your SeanT gag FPT..
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    Good to see Gove got through his ugly duckling phase.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. blueburn, welcome to the site (and an astute observation).
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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I'm feeling slightly apprehensive about Boris tonight. Two hours is a long time for him to hold it all together. Being the only man makes it difficult because he won't be able to interrupt the "ladies" especially that cheeky little madam, Maria Eagles. She will make it all about the tory party. I see Gisela is there as well but she is so quiet and just doesn't project herself well.
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    MaxPB said:

    Patrick said:

    'Born in another EU country' is highly misleading. Angela Merkel just let a million Muslims born in the Middle East into Germany. In less than 3 years they'll have German passports.

    Nonsense. You have to have lived in Germany for at least 8 years before you can apply for naturalisation, and then there are a whole load of other hoops to jump through.
    Five years to get naturalised citizenship in Germany.
    No, 8 years.

    However, that may be reduced to 7 years if an integration course is successfully completed, and to 6 years for especially good German language skills or participation in voluntary or community work.

    http://www.bundesauslaenderbeauftragte.de/einbuergerung.html
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Basildon and Thurrock will deliver huge wins for Leave.

    There is a by-election in Basildon tonight, in a Labour-held County Division, where UKIP just finished ahead in May. It will be interesting to see if locals treat this as part of the Referendum.
    Sorry Sean , UKIP finished 146 votes behind Labour in the 3 DC wards making up this CC division in May they won one but Labour won two
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    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Mumbai mix actually sounds better
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    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Born in another country question is somewhat leading with its options is it not? I thought the evidence was that surveys with options like that lead people to choosing a "middle" option and with the answer being an extreme one people won't choose that.

    I think also that sometimes when people see two parents from overseas, they assume that their children are foreign-born, too, E.g. you might see a child of two Polish parents as "Polish", even if they were born in the UK. One of my daughter's friends has Spanish parents and I have kind-of assumed that the girl herself was born in Spain. But, now I come to think of it, I have absolutely no idea where she was born.

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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    I hear Surrey resident, Corinne Stockheath's vote is up for grabs.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....

    I sympathise with the idea that Farage is a very divisive character - he goes 'migrant, migrant, migrant' far too frequently - but there is an opening materialising here for a single independence party a la the SNP.

    It will take hours at most for the European Unionists to go back to hating each other if Remain prevails.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
    Gospel Oak to Barking Line suspended until early 2017 due to long-awaited electrification works.
    I once tried to travel on that line, but it wasn't operating as it was a Bank Holiday. May 1989.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Mark, it's the heroism of Satan in Paradise Lost. Or Constantine Dragases at the fall of Byzantium. Or Leonidas at Thermopylae.

    "They say Remain has so much propaganda it will blot out the sun."

    "Then we shall campaign in the shade."

    :p
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited June 2016
    This is just "God, them voters, they so thick!" part XVIII.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Royale, I missed said gag, what was it?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    An..er..interesting visualisation of US politics.

    Nsfw.

    http://tinyurl.com/zw9xem4
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    @TSE

    You are getting lazy in your old age.

    Where's the thread about Sir John Nott??
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Mr. Mark, it's the heroism of Satan in Paradise Lost. Or Constantine Dragases at the fall of Byzantium. Or Leonidas at Thermopylae.

    "They say Remain has so much propaganda it will blot out the sun."

    "Then we shall campaign in the shade."

    :p

    That has to be the worst spelling of facts I've ever seen.

    F-A-C-T-S, not propaganda,
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited June 2016
    Jobabob said:

    @TSE

    You are getting lazy in your old age.

    Where's the thread about Sir John Nott??

    A thread about Sir John Nott would have been a here today, gone tomorrow thread.

    This is a thread that will endure the ages
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    @TSE

    You are getting lazy in your old age.

    Where's the thread about Sir John Nott??

    A thread about Sir John Nott would have been a here today, gone tomorrow thread.

    This is a lasting thread
    Okay, okay, how about a 'predict the day that SeanT defects' thread?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
    Gospel Oak to Barking Line suspended until early 2017 due to long-awaited electrification works.
    I once tried to travel on that line, but it wasn't operating as it was a Bank Holiday. May 1989.
    That was a long time ago :)

    Trains were (until last week!) every 15 minutes.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. Mark, it's the heroism of Satan in Paradise Lost. Or Constantine Dragases at the fall of Byzantium. Or Leonidas at Thermopylae.

    "They say Remain has so much propaganda it will blot out the sun."

    "Then we shall campaign in the shade."

    :p

    :)

    "Hand over your votes or face the consequences"

    "Molon Labe"

    Ah, classical history can teach us so much. The EU are handling the skeptics with as much eptitude as Valens displayed when dealing with Fritigern (this is especially for you Mr Dancer, it's both earlier and later than my normal historical stamping grounds).
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Mr. Royale, I missed said gag, what was it?

    See final comment by Sean Fear in previous thread
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Mumbai mix actually sounds better

    Chicken Chennai?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/

    LOL let's see what happens post 23rd.

    The man may have just lost his party
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Eagles, you're Chris Evans and I claim a dubious interpretation of viewer statistics.

    Mr. M, that is a brilliant historical analogy. As an aside, Fritigern is also the name a central character in Journey to Altmortis (a book I wrote, with pretty good reviews). If you know that period well, another character's name can give a clue to a plot twist (I was reading Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire whilst writing it, so used especially obscure names).
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    edited June 2016
    TSE: Choose your next words carefully, Dr. Sunil. They may be your last as PB LEAVE Leader.

    Sunil: [to himself: thinking] "Earth and water"?
    [He unsheathes and points his sword at TSE's throat]

    TSE: Madman! You're a madman!

    Sunil: Earth and water? You'll find plenty of both down there.[referring to the well behind TSE]

    TSE: No man, LEAVER or REMAINER, no man threatens a lawyer!

    Sunil: You bring the ashes and ruins of conquered economies to our city steps. You insult my farmers and fishermen. You threaten the UK with slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Traitor Pig-Dog Lawyer! Perhaps you should have done the same!

    TSE: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

    Sunil: Madness...? This is BREXIT!
    [He kicks poor TSE down the well]
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/

    LOL let's see what happens post 23rd.

    The man may have just lost his party
    If he wins the referendum, I suspect the party will want him to do a Ted Heath and fight four general elections in total.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2016

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
    I hope for TSE's sake she notices..
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Surely 95% of people living in the UK are EU citizens? :-)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    TGOHF said:

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
    I hope for TSE's sake she notices..
    Once ladies have dipped their toe in Lake Eagles, dry land never feels the same again for them.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    Paris?

    Sure it's not Vichy? :lol:
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/

    LOL let's see what happens post 23rd.

    The man may have just lost his party
    If he wins the referendum, I suspect the party will want him to do a Ted Heath and fight four general elections in total.
    Nah, he's history and leaving a huge mess behind him.

    Looking at his now 6 years in power he has left little of significance behind him. Some referendums but none of them really settled, a weak economy and a list of reforms he could have undertaken but lacked the purpose to do so.

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....

    Well, what should I do? Give up? Change my beliefs?

    When I first became convinced that the UK would be a better place outside the EU my view was probably held by less than 10% of the people I knew and was certainly very much a minority position. It is now mainstream and one held by a significant minority and maybe, who knows, a majority of the people who will vote later this month.

    It has taken 20 years to get where we are today, given the trajectories, I think progress will be faster in the future. We are moving into a situation, perhaps, where we have an elite of rich people trying to hold the lid on a project that benefits them. I doubt that is sustainable over the longer term.

    Furthermore this is not just a UK thing, we are merely in the vanguard. Look at what is happening elsewhere (France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands).
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Am I bad man for laughing at this?

    A bird has earned the nickname Gullfrazie after turning bright orange when he plunged into a vat of chicken tikka masala.

    The seagull fell into a container of curry while trying to scavenge meat from a food factory bin on Monday.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-09/seagull-turns-bright-orange-after-falling-in-a-vat-of-chicken-tikka-masala/
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    TGOHF said:

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
    I hope for TSE's sake she notices..
    Once ladies have dipped their toe in Lake Eagles, dry land never feels the same again for them.
    Skin disease will do that to a woman.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,311
    Douglas Hurd retires from Lords.

    New state of parties:

    Con 245, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173

    That makes Con down 5 in last two months - 3 retirements, 2 on leave of absence (though Lord Bates should return after walking across Brazil).
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
    I hope for TSE's sake she notices..
    Once ladies have dipped their toe in Lake Eagles, dry land never feels the same again for them.
    Will be like waving a chipolata in the Albert Hall.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Balckburn's 14/1 looking perilous...

    @sarahwollaston: To be clear, 1.I have not asked for or been offered any Govt post 2.I have not deleted any of my EU tweets 3. I am not auditioning for 007
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....

    Well, what should I do? Give up? Change my beliefs?

    When I first became convinced that the UK would be a better place outside the EU my view was probably held by less than 10% of the people I knew and was certainly very much a minority position. It is now mainstream and one held by a significant minority and maybe, who knows, a majority of the people who will vote later this month.

    It has taken 20 years to get where we are today, given the trajectories, I think progress will be faster in the future. We are moving into a situation, perhaps, where we have an elite of rich people trying to hold the lid on a project that benefits them. I doubt that is sustainable over the longer term.

    Furthermore this is not just a UK thing, we are merely in the vanguard. Look at what is happening elsewhere (France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands).
    Everything comes to him who waits Mr L.

    The longer they try to keep the lid on the more bigger the blow up when the pressure bursts.

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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
    Gospel Oak to Barking Line suspended until early 2017 due to long-awaited electrification works.
    I once tried to travel on that line, but it wasn't operating as it was a Bank Holiday. May 1989.
    Did you note down the number of the train you didn't get?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    MikeL said:

    Douglas Hurd retires from Lords.

    New state of parties:

    Con 245, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173

    That makes Con down 5 in last two months - 3 retirements, 2 on leave of absence (though Lord Bates should return after walking across Brazil).

    Never known a Lord so stingy as to walk across Brazil rather than buying a plane ticket... :p
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/

    LOL let's see what happens post 23rd.

    The man may have just lost his party
    Like Robert Peel in another time he puts the country first - Boris is the party man and like Disraeli of yore he'll betray the Leave agenda if he gets the chance.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Anyone got any Euro 2016 tips?

    I've gone for Germany at 9/2

    And Lewandoski and Lukaku as top goalscorers at 18/1 and 20/1
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    Scott_P said:

    Balckburn's 14/1 looking perilous...

    @sarahwollaston: To be clear, 1.I have not asked for or been offered any Govt post 2.I have not deleted any of my EU tweets 3. I am not auditioning for 007

    Except we can no longer trust a word she says.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    chestnut said:

    Essex Man seems to be fully aboard the Leave train, and where Basildon and Thurrock lead....

    Barking?
    Gospel Oak to Barking Line suspended until early 2017 due to long-awaited electrification works.
    I once tried to travel on that line, but it wasn't operating as it was a Bank Holiday. May 1989.
    Did you note down the number of the train you didn't get?
    There wasn't a train not to get!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    Don't worry. I'm sure the French will give you a residency visa when we Leave.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    TSE: Choose your next words carefully, Dr. Sunil. They may be your last as PB LEAVE Leader.

    Sunil: [to himself: thinking] "Earth and water"?
    [He unsheathes and points his sword at TSE's throat]

    TSE: Madman! You're a madman!

    Sunil: Earth and water? You'll find plenty of both down there.[referring to the well behind TSE]

    TSE: No man, LEAVER or REMAINER, no man threatens a lawyer!

    Sunil: You bring the ashes and ruins of conquered economies to our city steps. You insult my farmers and fishermen. You threaten the UK with slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Traitor Pig-Dog Lawyer! Perhaps you should have done the same!

    TSE: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

    Sunil: Madness...? This is BREXIT!
    [He kicks poor TSE down the well]

    Avast, Cap'n Doc, that is rather good. I think I prefer your Darth Eagles post though.

    Else. Belike.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Anyone got any Euro 2016 tips?

    I've gone for Germany at 9/2

    And Lewandoski and Lukaku as top goalscorers at 18/1 and 20/1

    Lay England in any way you can!!! They're always too short with UK bookies due to the weight of patriotic money.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    TGOHF said:

    Thanks to you Leave buggers, I have to spend Monday in Paris.

    I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

    I hope Ms Hilton will enjoy the experience.
    I hope for TSE's sake she notices..
    Once ladies have dipped their toe in Lake Eagles, dry land never feels the same again for them.
    Christ.

    How do you fancy those fabulous French birds?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....

    Well, what should I do? Give up? Change my beliefs?

    When I first became convinced that the UK would be a better place outside the EU my view was probably held by less than 10% of the people I knew and was certainly very much a minority position. It is now mainstream and one held by a significant minority and maybe, who knows, a majority of the people who will vote later this month.

    It has taken 20 years to get where we are today, given the trajectories, I think progress will be faster in the future. We are moving into a situation, perhaps, where we have an elite of rich people trying to hold the lid on a project that benefits them. I doubt that is sustainable over the longer term.

    Furthermore this is not just a UK thing, we are merely in the vanguard. Look at what is happening elsewhere (France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands).
    This is what makes me sanguine about the referendum. I feel the tide of history is flowing in our direction. At least, I hope it's the tide.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited June 2016
    felix said:

    How the Sarah Wollaston conspiracy theory proves David Cameron is a political genius

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/how-the-sarah-wollaston-conspiracy-theory-proves-david-cameron-i/

    LOL let's see what happens post 23rd.

    The man may have just lost his party
    Like Robert Peel in another time he puts the country first - Boris is the party man and like Disraeli of yore he'll betray the Leave agenda if he gets the chance.
    There's precious little evidence Cameron puts the country first. His friends and cronies certainly but not the nation.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sandpit said:

    Lay England in any way you can!!! They're always too short with UK bookies due to the weight of patriotic money.

    How to bet on football

    https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-daily/how-i-used-maths-to-beat-the-bookies
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Sandpit said:

    Anyone got any Euro 2016 tips?

    I've gone for Germany at 9/2

    And Lewandoski and Lukaku as top goalscorers at 18/1 and 20/1

    Lay England in any way you can!!! They're always too short with UK bookies due to the weight of patriotic money.
    Oh that's a given.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited June 2016
    I see the John and Tony show went down well

    DUP MP Nigel Dodds

    “Surely this is the most irresponsible talk that can be perpetuated in terms of Northern Ireland – very dangerous, destabilising and it should not be happening,”
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    I see the John and Tony show went down well

    DUP MP Nigel Dodds

    “Surely this is the most irresponsible talk that can be perpetuated in terms of Northern Ireland – very dangerous, destabilising and it should not be happening,”

    Has he never heard any of Ian Paisley's speeches in the 60s and 70s?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    George Osborne has attacked Nigel Farage for using “pretty disgusting” rhetoric about the threat of migrants sexually attacking women and refugee bodies washing up on British beaches.

    In a marked escalation of attacks on the Ukip leader and by extension the entire leave campaign, the chancellor singled out Farage for representing a “mean-spirited, narrow and divisive” vision of Britain. He said that “tendency” was now coming to dominate the anti-EU campaign.

    Speaking to reporters on a campaign visit to a Scottish sheep and beef farm with Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, Osborne said:

    The Nigel Farage tendency is taking over their argument and you’re increasingly getting this Farage vision of Britain, with all this talk of bodies washing up the sea shores and women being at risk of sexual assault from migrants.

    It is pretty disgusting. And we want to say no to it. We want to say that is not the country we are. We’re a country that is big and bold and strong, and united, and we want to say no to this mean-spirited, divisive, negative view of Britain that you get from Nigel Farage and company.

    http://tinyurl.com/IAgreeWithGeorge
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Nice URL, TSE :)
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    John_M said:

    "only 46% of those planning to vote Leave think Leave will win"

    And yet they continue to walk into the withering fire regardless....

    Well, what should I do? Give up? Change my beliefs?

    When I first became convinced that the UK would be a better place outside the EU my view was probably held by less than 10% of the people I knew and was certainly very much a minority position. It is now mainstream and one held by a significant minority and maybe, who knows, a majority of the people who will vote later this month.

    It has taken 20 years to get where we are today, given the trajectories, I think progress will be faster in the future. We are moving into a situation, perhaps, where we have an elite of rich people trying to hold the lid on a project that benefits them. I doubt that is sustainable over the longer term.

    Furthermore this is not just a UK thing, we are merely in the vanguard. Look at what is happening elsewhere (France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands).
    This is what makes me sanguine about the referendum. I feel the tide of history is flowing in our direction. At least, I hope it's the tide.
    Mr. Mr.M, you would not consider Me Brooke's point pertinent?

    "The longer they try to keep the lid on the more bigger the blow up when the pressure bursts."

    I don't want to see a big blow up, let us go now while an amicable separation is still a matter of politics and not molotov cocktails on the streets (see Greece and France for the latest examples).
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    I see the John and Tony show went down well

    DUP MP Nigel Dodds

    “Surely this is the most irresponsible talk that can be perpetuated in terms of Northern Ireland – very dangerous, destabilising and it should not be happening,”

    Has he never heard any of Ian Paisley's speeches in the 60s and 70s?
    Nigel's the progressive one. Too much time in Cambridge if you ask me.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    RobD said:

    Nice URL, TSE :)

    George, as ever, speaks for the nation.
This discussion has been closed.