Re Nick's canvassing experience would be interested to know how many on this 'former' council estate are private renters? If so, being in Islington, I wouldn't expect it to be anything other than strong Remain
I would take his "canvassing" with a pinch of salt.
This is not something with a simple answer and a common language can be a deceptive factor.
On that we can agree. Much about the US was foreign to me when I first arrived. I don't feel it so much now, and much about the UK now feels foreign to me. But overall, I do think that, at the very cultural core, the UK is closer to the US than France.
Queen Elizabeth II is probably thankful that we're not too much like either of them.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
The UK has opted out of Schengen and the refugee sharing plan yet still has to pick up the bill for the disastrous handling of the migration crisis.
*Betting Post* The publicity shy Paddy Power (to quote a PB favourite) are offering 80/1 on Valverde for Le Tour. While his chances of winning are very slim, I think he has a good shot for a place on the podium. I've taken a slice as an e/w bet. Nairo Quintana has imo a better chance than Froomy of taking yellow as I don't think he will make the same mistakes in the first week like last year (currently 2/1 on Betfair). As PfP says DYOR.
I've had a bit on Tejay Van Garderen at 50/1...
Not even leader in his own team but at least it's a long price.
As previously posted, the Bale verde tip is pretty speculative; just finished riding the Giro for GC so not a chance he'll ride a good finish at the Tour.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
1536 was a huge breach which led to literal isolation for 100+ years followed by cultural isolation for many more. Europe is another place where we intervene from time to time to stop any threat to us but it is not home or even near home to the majority any more than China is to the Japanese.
Are you sure? I rather think that following, Henry VIII's breach with Rome the trade between the UK and the Continent continued. I am not sure you can say we were isolated. Bloody Mary even married the Spanish king less than ten years after Henry shuffled off this mortal coil.
That England's relationship with Europe has always been one of self-interest is certainly reasonable but I don't think you can say we have ever been isolated. Different, yes, but isolated, no.
*Betting Post* The publicity shy Paddy Power (to quote a PB favourite) are offering 80/1 on Valverde for Le Tour. While his chances of winning are very slim, I think he has a good shot for a place on the podium. I've taken a slice as an e/w bet. Nairo Quintana has imo a better chance than Froomy of taking yellow as I don't think he will make the same mistakes in the first week like last year (currently 2/1 on Betfair). As PfP says DYOR.
I've had a bit on Tejay Van Garderen at 50/1...
Not even leader in his own team but at least it's a long price.
As previously posted, the Bale verde tip is pretty speculative; just finished riding the Giro for GC so not a chance he'll ride a good finish at the Tour.
The odds for the Tour De France look about right to me.
You probably want to be the bookie laying the top 3 (Bertie, Froome, Nairo) at ~ 5-2 - the Criterium suggests that it will be competitive.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
As is the latest Greek debt settlement put back to July. If Gove's words on Sky on Friday night are anything to go by, then leave will be hammering this as part of the economic message. Once again to repeat there is NO STATUS QUO in this referendum as remain would like us to believe.
I think you could divide europe in any number of ways (e.g. N. Europe large beers, drinking while standing without food. S. Europe, wine with nice dinners), but basically meaningless. Anyway, these things are pretty flexible. The USA has fused plenty of different cultures in a relatively short time
Your point? If you are talking about culture, it is helpful to think of things in cultural similarities and differences rather than drinking beer vs wine vs spirits, which are behaviours not cultures. Or are you arguing that defining culture per se is meaningless? If this, I'd strongly disagree.
Culture is indeed changeable, but it is more like a supertanker than a dinghy.
The US is a special case given both its youth and that it has no majority ethnicity. Those of German descent are the largest group, but number only around 15% of the population:
This explains why its melting pot has created a distinct and coherent sub-culture. But it has only be successfully in doing so because it created a very powerful unifying cultural artefact - the American Dream. That said, overall the Western culture is still strong here.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
1536 was a huge breach which led to literal isolation for 100+ years followed by cultural isolation for many more. Europe is another place where we intervene from time to time to stop any threat to us but it is not home or even near home to the majority any more than China is to the Japanese.
Are you sure? I rather think that following, Henry VIII's breach with Rome the trade between the UK and the Continent continued. I am not sure you can say we were isolated. Bloody Mary even married the Spanish king less than ten years after Henry shuffled off this mortal coil.
That England's relationship with Europe has always been one of self-interest is certainly reasonable but I don't think you can say we have ever been isolated. Different, yes, but isolated, no.
Elizabeth also considered marrying a French Duke, James married a Dane, Charles married a Frenchwoman...
It should not be forgotten either that for a hundred years France was in similar turmoil over religion and at one point had a Protestant King (he officially converted to Catholicism on the basis that 'Paris is worth a Mass').
Isolation is overstressing the case. Indeed, our longest and bitterest wars after the Reformation were against the Protestant Dutch.
This is not something with a simple answer and a common language can be a deceptive factor.
On that we can agree. Much about the US was foreign to me when I first arrived. I don't feel it so much now, and much about the UK now feels foreign to me. But overall, I do think that, at the very cultural core, the UK is closer to the US than France.
Queen Elizabeth II is probably thankful that we're not too much like either of them.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
And the hundreds of thousands of Indians, Americans, ANZACs and other nationalities? Where do they fit into your sick joke?
Right in the centre of it. Nowhere is isolated from Europe. Something you might do well to remember when dreaming of your globalist utopia.
Yet another example of your parochial little European view. Amazing arrogance disregarding the other 93% of the world's population.
I'm not disregarding them at all. I'm making the very obvious point that what happens in Europe matters to us as it matters to everyone. It's no so long ago that the single most important fact in global affairs was the existence of the iron curtain across the centre of our continent.
Re Nick's canvassing experience would be interested to know how many on this 'former' council estate are private renters? If so, being in Islington, I wouldn't expect it to be anything other than strong Remain
I would take his "canvassing" with a pinch of salt.
Nick's canvassing was so good that he stood again and lost by a bigger margin, just a circa 4,000 error but wtf.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
And the hundreds of thousands of Indians, Americans, ANZACs and other nationalities? Where do they fit into your sick joke?
Right in the centre of it. Nowhere is isolated from Europe. Something you might do well to remember when dreaming of your globalist utopia.
Yet another example of your parochial little European view. Amazing arrogance disregarding the other 93% of the world's population.
I'm not disregarding them at all. I'm making the very obvious point that what happens in Europe matters to us as it matters to everyone. It's no so long ago that the single most important fact in global affairs was the existence of the iron curtain across the centre of our continent.
Not sure that was very important at all to villagers in Latin America, Africa or Asia. To the extent it was, it was the proxy war between the US and USSR, not Europe per se, unfolding in countries like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Angola and the Horn.
Re Nick's canvassing experience would be interested to know how many on this 'former' council estate are private renters? If so, being in Islington, I wouldn't expect it to be anything other than strong Remain
I would take his "canvassing" with a pinch of salt.
Nick's canvassing was so good that he stood again and lost by a bigger margin, just a circa 4,000 error but wtf.
They're anecdotes for interest. I make no claim for them in any other respect!
Re Nick's canvassing experience would be interested to know how many on this 'former' council estate are private renters? If so, being in Islington, I wouldn't expect it to be anything other than strong Remain
I would take his "canvassing" with a pinch of salt.
Nick's canvassing was so good that he stood again and lost by a bigger margin, just a circa 4,000 error but wtf.
They're anecdotes for interest. I make no claim for them in any other respect!
I know but did you not see a 4,000 loss? A good canvass of >75% plus checks in the final weeks should have seen that coming.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
As is the latest Greek debt settlement put back to July. If Gove's words on Sky on Friday night are anything to go by, then leave will be hammering this as part of the economic message. Once again to repeat there is NO STATUS QUO in this referendum as remain would like us to believe.
Greece is now funded through until September next year. Of course, it's all "extend and pretend", but Greece won't go bust this year, or indeed in the first half of next year.
I thought he said the end of the parliament. Presumably now he feels the need to play nice and go along with the pretense of Cameron lasting until 2020.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
And the hundreds of thousands of Indians, Americans, ANZACs and other nationalities? Where do they fit into your sick joke?
Right in the centre of it. Nowhere is isolated from Europe. Something you might do well to remember when dreaming of your globalist utopia.
Yet another example of your parochial little European view. Amazing arrogance disregarding the other 93% of the world's population.
I'm not disregarding them at all. I'm making the very obvious point that what happens in Europe matters to us as it matters to everyone. It's no so long ago that the single most important fact in global affairs was the existence of the iron curtain across the centre of our continent.
The single most important factor in global affairs in that era was the "red buttons" in Washington DC and Moscow. The Cuban Missile Crisis and other issues like that mattered more than the iron curtain.
Speaking for myself I have always been uneasy about that conviction because if Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty of a crime, so was the Fake Sheikh and he was never even charged. But the fact remains, if he's given a visa Leave could swipe on it as a sign of softness at the Home Office, despite its irrelevance to any EU issue.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
As is the latest Greek debt settlement put back to July. If Gove's words on Sky on Friday night are anything to go by, then leave will be hammering this as part of the economic message. Once again to repeat there is NO STATUS QUO in this referendum as remain would like us to believe.
Greece is now funded through until September next year. Of course, it's all "extend and pretend", but Greece won't go bust this year, or indeed in the first half of next year.
From reports below - it isn't Greece going bust - it is the whole EU.
John McDonnell: Labour taking a close look at universal basic income
Shadow chancellor says the concept of an unconditional payment to all could prepare country for robotisation of the workforce
A universal basic income (UBI) is regarded by some on the left as a response to the robotisation of the workforce, which it is feared could replace lower-skilled jobs and exacerbate inequality.
I can't any problems with this at all...none at all...as for the "robotisation" of the work force, we already have it and and it is less likely to affect the low skilled, it will be middle skilled tasks where computers have made leap and bounds.
Computer AI can do lots of tasks that we currently deem skilled e.g. pretty good at translation, but we have hardly made any progress on enabling computers to "understand" simple tasks like cleaning and tidying, where things are not clear cut and require a lot of different understanding.
I would be more concerned if i was just a code monkey than a cleaner.
The millions who died in the world wars would have found your claim that we were isolated from Europe to be a sick joke.
And the hundreds of thousands of Indians, Americans, ANZACs and other nationalities? Where do they fit into your sick joke?
Right in the centre of it. Nowhere is isolated from Europe. Something you might do well to remember when dreaming of your globalist utopia.
Yet another example of your parochial little European view. Amazing arrogance disregarding the other 93% of the world's population.
I'm not disregarding them at all. I'm making the very obvious point that what happens in Europe matters to us as it matters to everyone. It's no so long ago that the single most important fact in global affairs was the existence of the iron curtain across the centre of our continent.
Across their continent - whatever the geography books say.
And I for one don't want to be on tbe wrong side of its replacement anymore.
Speaking for myself I have always been uneasy about that conviction because if Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty of a crime, so was the Fake Sheikh and he was never even charged. But the fact remains, if he's given a visa Leave could swipe on it as a sign of softness at the Home Office, despite its irrelevance to any EU issue.
He's served his sentence and the ECB is backing him getting a visa. I fail to see why he shouldn't under the circumstances.
I do not welcome or agree with the reported comment by Farage on rapists heading here if we REMAIN. But, the fact that the media keep wanting to talk about it and others are willing to pile in condemning it, could this be the dead cat on the table attracting people to keep talking about immigration? If Sky and the BBC had ignored it, it would not feature in the headlines.
Speaking for myself I have always been uneasy about that conviction because if Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty of a crime, so was the Fake Sheikh and he was never even charged. But the fact remains, if he's given a visa Leave could swipe on it as a sign of softness at the Home Office, despite its irrelevance to any EU issue.
He's served his sentence and the ECB is backing him getting a visa. I fail to see why he shouldn't under the circumstances.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
As is the latest Greek debt settlement put back to July. If Gove's words on Sky on Friday night are anything to go by, then leave will be hammering this as part of the economic message. Once again to repeat there is NO STATUS QUO in this referendum as remain would like us to believe.
Greece is now funded through until September next year. Of course, it's all "extend and pretend", but Greece won't go bust this year, or indeed in the first half of next year.
One hopes, Mr,. Robert, one hopes. Similar predictions in the past have proved, well shall we say, optimistic.
Then, as you say, it is "extend and pretend", so have the fundamentals been addressed? Will the rioting on the streets of Athens and elsewhere abate? Will Greek youth unemployment fall from the current eye-watering levels to something more or less socially sustainable? If the answer to any of those questions is no then ll that will have happened is, perhaps, at vast expense the can had been kicked down the road a little further.
I do not welcome or agree with the reported comment by Farage on rapists heading here if we REMAIN. But, the fact that the media keep wanting to talk about it and others are willing to pile in condemning it, could this be the dead cat on the table attracting people to keep talking about immigration? If Sky and the BBC had ignored it, it would not feature in the headlines.
PS in other news Ali is still dead.
Not the kind of talking I think leave want to have
I do not welcome or agree with the reported comment by Farage on rapists heading here if we REMAIN. But, the fact that the media keep wanting to talk about it and others are willing to pile in condemning it, could this be the dead cat on the table attracting people to keep talking about immigration? If Sky and the BBC had ignored it, it would not feature in the headlines.
PS in other news Ali is still dead.
Not the kind of talking I think leave want to have
No worse scaremongering than Remain did with their dodgy treasury report. And we DO have evidence of mass sexual assaults in Germany (as well as other sexual assaults in other countries that have been culturally enriched.)
This attitude is what will be the death of us as a civilisation. There really is such a thing as European culture and identity.
It might help to think of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc as offshoots of Europe. The fact that the 'Europe over the oceans' is overwhelmingly anglophone does seem to exacerbate the British identity crisis, but shouldn't blind us to the essential truth that we are a European country.
This is just rubbish. We are far closer culturally to the rest of the Anglosphere than we are to mainland Europe. Whatever the origins of our civilisation or culture we have moved far beyond those bounds.
You may feel that way but I and many others are counter-examples to your point, and I've lived in the US (California) and mainland Europe.
And I have lived and worked in 4 separate European countries as well as the US, Middle East and North Africa. It proves nothing in this argument.
I have lived in the USA, Australia and New Zealand, all lovely countries, but I feel very European when there, even in Melbourne with its large Italian, Yugoslav and Greek populations.
I feel very European when I am in the US, but that does not prove that the UK shares more with Europe than with the Anglosphere.
At a cultural level, in particular, there is a huge divide between the more social cultures (most of continental Europe more or less aligning with Catholic or Orthodox majorities plus Scandinavia) and the more individualistic ones (Anglosphere plus to a lesser extent NL). Germany seems to have both tendencies. On this parameter, the UK is far closer to the US and Old Dominions than to France or Italy.
But in other ways the US has more in common culturally with France than with the UK. Their revolutions almost paralleled each other. France was a major contributor to the intellectual foundation of individualism.
This is not something with a simple answer and a common language can be a deceptive factor.
But don't forget Thomas Paine et al. The American philosophy of independence was very much rooted in English radical thinking. The colonists were Englishmen asserting their desired rights.
I think you could divide europe in any number of ways (e.g. N. Europe large beers, drinking while standing without food. S. Europe, wine with nice dinners), but basically meaningless. Anyway, these things are pretty flexible. The USA has fused plenty of different cultures in a relatively short time
Your point? If you are talking about culture, it is helpful to think of things in cultural similarities and differences rather than drinking beer vs wine vs spirits, which are behaviours not cultures. Or are you arguing that defining culture per se is meaningless? If this, I'd strongly disagree.
Culture is indeed changeable, but it is more like a supertanker than a dinghy.
The US is a special case given both its youth and that it has no majority ethnicity. Those of German descent are the largest group, but number only around 15% of the population:
This explains why its melting pot has created a distinct and coherent sub-culture. But it has only be successfully in doing so because it created a very powerful unifying cultural artefact - the American Dream. That said, overall the Western culture is still strong here.
is there any difference between a behaviour and a culture. I'd contend that they are not significantly different. IIRC you mentioned Christian sects (orthodox , catholic etc, apols if I misremember), my point is only that there are plenty of other ways to group people.
a quick google suggests that "The American Dream" was first coined in 1931, did the cultural artefact really exist before then? maybe the constitution. ?
regarding the ethnicity, that probably wasn't true throughout US history.
Matthew Holehouse EU budget "exhausted" . MEPs demand ceilings lifted. Migration bills mount. Woe for Cameron coming. https://t.co/tVQ8nI6sRq
This needs shouting from the rooftops. Presumably it's just more bad news, the formal announcement of which is being conveniently postponed until after the June 23 Referendum.
As is the latest Greek debt settlement put back to July. If Gove's words on Sky on Friday night are anything to go by, then leave will be hammering this as part of the economic message. Once again to repeat there is NO STATUS QUO in this referendum as remain would like us to believe.
Greece is now funded through until September next year. Of course, it's all "extend and pretend", but Greece won't go bust this year, or indeed in the first half of next year.
One hopes, Mr,. Robert, one hopes. Similar predictions in the past have proved, well shall we say, optimistic.
Then, as you say, it is "extend and pretend", so have the fundamentals been addressed? Will the rioting on the streets of Athens and elsewhere abate? Will Greek youth unemployment fall from the current eye-watering levels to something more or less socially sustainable? If the answer to any of those questions is no then ll that will have happened is, perhaps, at vast expense the can had been kicked down the road a little further.
The danger is if the current eye-watering youth unemployment levels are maintained is whether it will cease to be "just" a youth unemployment problem. If half of 24 year olds are unemployed and the problem continues for another six years then there must be a very large proportion of thirty year olds then to still be unemployed.
Normally in these crises the issue is resolved after a couple of years so while those who've never worked (the youth) suffer most, after the crisis abates they find a job. This crisis shows no sign of abating.
I took that test yesterday. Apparently I'm a Europhile along with 9% of the population. Obviously neither part of the result surprises me greatly. Though I never use the words europhile or europhobe myself as they are horribly ugly words.
Comments
As previously posted, the Bale verde tip is pretty speculative; just finished riding the Giro for GC so not a chance he'll ride a good finish at the Tour.
That England's relationship with Europe has always been one of self-interest is certainly reasonable but I don't think you can say we have ever been isolated. Different, yes, but isolated, no.
You probably want to be the bookie laying the top 3 (Bertie, Froome, Nairo) at ~ 5-2 - the Criterium suggests that it will be competitive.
Culture is indeed changeable, but it is more like a supertanker than a dinghy.
The US is a special case given both its youth and that it has no majority ethnicity. Those of German descent are the largest group, but number only around 15% of the population:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762137.html
This explains why its melting pot has created a distinct and coherent sub-culture. But it has only be successfully in doing so because it created a very powerful unifying cultural artefact - the American Dream. That said, overall the Western culture is still strong here.
It should not be forgotten either that for a hundred years France was in similar turmoil over religion and at one point had a Protestant King (he officially converted to Catholicism on the basis that 'Paris is worth a Mass').
Isolation is overstressing the case. Indeed, our longest and bitterest wars after the Reformation were against the Protestant Dutch.
Should I cash out?
@craigawoodhouse: Reverse ferret from Gove over claims Brexit would still have us in the EU by 2020. https://t.co/SHEwcZx312
One of the greens main policy rejected in Switzerland.
But he's 2-0 down in the second...
Yes, of course it does, it always has. Is that is a sufficient reason for us remaining a member of the EU though?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/content/story/1023181.html
Speaking for myself I have always been uneasy about that conviction because if Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty of a crime, so was the Fake Sheikh and he was never even charged. But the fact remains, if he's given a visa Leave could swipe on it as a sign of softness at the Home Office, despite its irrelevance to any EU issue.
Shadow chancellor says the concept of an unconditional payment to all could prepare country for robotisation of the workforce
A universal basic income (UBI) is regarded by some on the left as a response to the robotisation of the workforce, which it is feared could replace lower-skilled jobs and exacerbate inequality.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-mcdonnell-labour-universal-basic-income-welfare-benefits-compass-report
I can't any problems with this at all...none at all...as for the "robotisation" of the work force, we already have it and and it is less likely to affect the low skilled, it will be middle skilled tasks where computers have made leap and bounds.
Computer AI can do lots of tasks that we currently deem skilled e.g. pretty good at translation, but we have hardly made any progress on enabling computers to "understand" simple tasks like cleaning and tidying, where things are not clear cut and require a lot of different understanding.
I would be more concerned if i was just a code monkey than a cleaner.
And I for one don't want to be on tbe wrong side of its replacement anymore.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
PS in other news Ali is still dead.
Then, as you say, it is "extend and pretend", so have the fundamentals been addressed? Will the rioting on the streets of Athens and elsewhere abate? Will Greek youth unemployment fall from the current eye-watering levels to something more or less socially sustainable? If the answer to any of those questions is no then ll that will have happened is, perhaps, at vast expense the can had been kicked down the road a little further.
a quick google suggests that "The American Dream" was first coined in 1931, did the cultural artefact really exist before then? maybe the constitution. ?
regarding the ethnicity, that probably wasn't true throughout US history.
Normally in these crises the issue is resolved after a couple of years so while those who've never worked (the youth) suffer most, after the crisis abates they find a job. This crisis shows no sign of abating.