Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
Got a source for that? Conversely, do you have numbers for previous refs and regstrations? It's a genuine question (I'm not poo-pooing it, so don't get upset) - it's such a good idea for a forward indicator I'm genuinely interested.
Something I heard on the local news. Much higher voter registrations than they were expecting
Labour GOTV.
I wouldnt bank on it. They got their vote out before the election last year which was quite a high turnout and only students and others moving house would have had to reregister since then.
I suspect - as with indyref it is people who have not voted for years or decades and I cant see them voting pro the political classes view.
Of course Boris is the very essence of the political classes.
Indeed, but that's not his public perception: witness his two terms as Mayor of Labour London and his being far more trusted than the PM on the European question. Perhaps we underestimate the impact he is having, and will have, on this referendum.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
Got a source for that? Conversely, do you have numbers for previous refs and regstrations? It's a genuine question (I'm not poo-pooing it, so don't get upset) - it's such a good idea for a forward indicator I'm genuinely interested.
Something I heard on the local news. Much higher voter registrations than they were expecting
Labour GOTV.
In the areas of Sussex concerned they'd be leavers, trust me.
These are the people who will deliver Brexit. I suspect many have not voted since 1997 but they sure will be voting on 23rd June.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
Yet again PB Leavers are using the EU as a proxy for a war elsewhere. In this case against the so-called "political or managerial classes". Plucky Leavers want out of the EU to let those well known anti-establishment folk Boris (Eton, Oxford), IDS (Sandhurst and The Guards), and Michael Gove (former President of the Oxford Union) run the country.
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
And if it leaves? Its monetary policy is decided in Frankfurt, its border policy is decided in London, and whatever it chooses as its VAT rate it has a problem. Niall Ferguson reckons it'll end with UK/Ireland reunification (!), others with Ireland/Northern Ireland reunification. I don't know what will happen but I don't see the border staying as open as present.
When I view the first 100 comments on here it's all fine.
But when I click "More Comments" the comments further down have huge "stacks" where every quote of a previous quote is shown - so sometimes you get five or six previous quotes within each quote.
Hmm. I'm in Cardiff half a world away from the Rhondda (!). It's a tricky one to call really. There's a lot of automatic "vote what Labour says" I'm sure, and Plaid are very pro Remain. Also there's a lot if European money spent (compared to wealthier bits of the UK). On the other hand immigration I doubt will play well and P Talbot is a localish known unknown in the mix. I'm guessing slightly Remain on a low turnout.
I have relatives in the Valleys (proper Valleys mind, not Cardiff/Swansea/Port Talbot).
During the Greece kerfuffle they saw a centre-right blue-clad woman from one country impose fiscal rectitude (with concomitant unemployment and poverty) on a working class country that spoke a different language...
...so go on, have a guess what they thought...
I'll be surprised if the Valleys don't go majority LEAVE, possibly higher than that.
Quite. But there are forces pulling the other way too. I don't think there will be huge amounts in it here either way, but I'd be surprised if Wales was as pro Remain as I suspect Scotland will be.
I've been surprised at how fiercely people are for Brexit round here (the Valleys). I've not spoken to anybody who is for Remain. Perhaps this is because Remainians are far less exercised about it all, and therefore less inclined to bring it up in conversation, or maybe it's because the Valleys is full of the working classes and no class has been hit harder than ours when it comes to lower wages, rising house prices and pressure on public services.
People from the Valleys have a very straightforward sense of what takes the piss too. For instance, even though we have high instances of benefits claimants, we are also the most willing to point it out when someone is frauding the system (I know one guy who was banned from the rugby club because he was a blatant scrounger and an unbearable prick). Uncontrolled EU immigration gers short-shrift round here. The concept of not being able to control the numbers of EU people coming in gets a lot of people very agitated.
All anecdotal, of course..but it wouldn't surprise me if the Valleys come out strongly for Brexit.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
Got a source for that? Conversely, do you have numbers for previous refs and regstrations? It's a genuine question (I'm not poo-pooing it, so don't get upset) - it's such a good idea for a forward indicator I'm genuinely interested.
Something I heard on the local news. Much higher voter registrations than they were expecting
Labour GOTV.
I wouldnt bank on it. They got their vote out before the election last year which was quite a high turnout and only students and others moving house would have had to reregister since then.
I suspect - as with indyref it is people who have not voted for years or decades and I cant see them voting pro the political classes view.
Of course Boris is the very essence of the political classes.
Indeed, but that's not his public perception: witness his two terms as Mayor of Labour London and his being far more trusted than the PM on the European question. Perhaps we underestimate the impact he is having, and will have, on this referendum.
Perhaps so. If so of course we wonder whether people will be happy or disappointed if and when he decides not to throw off the shackles of the neo-liberal military industrial complex.
Donald Trump Protester Speaks Out: “I Was Paid $3,500 To Protest Trump’s Rally” https://t.co/pMpl3WY1qC via @ABC News
It just gets worse and worse. These were supposedly Democrats running this interference???
“Almost all of the people I was protesting with I had seen at my interview and training class. At the rally, talking with some of them, I learned they only paid Latinos $500, Muslims $600 and African Americans $750. I don’t think they were looking for any Asians. Women and children were paid half of what the men got and illegals received $300 across the board. I think I was paid more than the other protesters because I was white and had taken classes in street fighting and boxing a few years back”
It's just beyond WTF.
Plato, where do you read such rubbish ? Do you scour the bottom of a filthy tank ?
These are the people who will deliver Brexit. I suspect many have not voted since 1997 but they sure will be voting on 23rd June.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
And if it leaves? Its monetary policy is decided in Frankfurt, its border policy is decided in London, and whatever it chooses as its VAT rate it has a problem. Niall Ferguson reckons it'll end with UK/Ireland reunification (!), others with Ireland/Northern Ireland reunification. I don't know what will happen but I don't see the border staying as open as present.
If Ireland leaves it's monetary policy will no longer be decided in Frankfurt and its border policy will be decided in Dublin. I don't know where you get these strange ideas.
German Dairy farmers to get an immediate 100 million Euro subsidy to support milk prices. Which Angie seems to just go ahead and do while Dave tells UK farmers his hands are tied.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
And if it leaves? Its monetary policy is decided in Frankfurt, its border policy is decided in London, and whatever it chooses as its VAT rate it has a problem. Niall Ferguson reckons it'll end with UK/Ireland reunification (!), others with Ireland/Northern Ireland reunification. I don't know what will happen but I don't see the border staying as open as present.
If Ireland leaves it's monetary policy will no longer be decided in Frankfurt and its border policy will be decided in Dublin. I don't know where you get these strange ideas.
They are going to set an "Irish Euro" interest rate? Well it's an interesting idea.
When I view the first 100 comments on here it's all fine.
But when I click "More Comments" the comments further down have huge "stacks" where every quote of a previous quote is shown - so sometimes you get five or six previous quotes within each quote.
Is this just me or a widespread problem?
Me as well.
Raised it many times on here. It occurred just after the spring clean of the system and we were on the standby site. I noticed it mid afternoon on the Sunday directly after.
Others have the same issue and no end of taking hints and guidance on here from others has removed it. Almost given up reading the site as the comments are effectively unreadable and really does my poor old eyes in.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
But where do you draw the line? Somewhere between there and different sized boxes for the two options? Best to err on the side of caution.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Who says so ? Another Leave propaganda and a bad one at that. They wouldn't give up their cherished 12% at the height of the credit crunch - certainly not now.
These are the people who will deliver Brexit. I suspect many have not voted since 1997 but they sure will be voting on 23rd June.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the nativ
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
Yet again PB Leavers are using the EU as a proxy for a war elsewhere. In this case against the so-called "political or managerial classes". Plucky Leavers want out of the EU to let those well known anti-establishment folk Boris (Eton, Oxford), IDS (Sandhurst and The Guards), and Michael Gove (former President of the Oxford Union) run the country.
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
These are the people who will deliver Brexit. I suspect many have not voted since 1997 but they sure will be voting on 23rd June.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
Yet again PB Leavers are using the EU as a proxy for a war elsewhere. In this case against the so-called "political or managerial classes". Plucky Leavers want out of the EU to let those well known anti-establishment folk Boris (Eton, Oxford), IDS (Sandhurst and The Guards), and Michael Gove (former President of the Oxford Union) run the country.
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
"a coup d’état by a political class who did not believe in popular sovereignty" - Tony Benn on the joining of the EU without a referendum.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Who says so ? Another Leave propaganda and a bad one at that. They wouldn't give up their cherished 12% at the height of the credit crunch - certainly not now.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
Yet again PB Leavers are using the EU as a proxy for a war elsewhere. In this case against the so-called "political or managerial classes". Plucky Leavers want out of the EU to let those well known anti-establishment folk Boris (Eton, Oxford), IDS (Sandhurst and The Guards), and Michael Gove (former President of the Oxford Union) run the country.
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
"a coup d’état by a political class who did not believe in popular sovereignty" - Tony Benn on the joining of the EU without a referendum.
Now it is payback time.
Yep. Tony Benn will always swing it in an argument. Clear, acute, and thoughtful. That's Benn Sr.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
But where do you draw the line? Somewhere between there and different sized boxes for the two options? Best to err on the side of caution.
Another example posted yesterday had the whole graphic slightly smaller, and the hovering pen(cil) was to the right of both boxes.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched to UKIP by now, if you have not voted since you are unlikely to be voting no now. You could equally argue many of the workers rights now in employment law came from the EU and if you vote for Brexit and end up with a rightwing Tory as PM the managerial class will do just fine, you maybe less so
Yet again PB Leavers are using the EU as a proxy for a war elsewhere. In this case against the so-called "political or managerial classes". Plucky Leavers want out of the EU to let those well known anti-establishment folk Boris (Eton, Oxford), IDS (Sandhurst and The Guards), and Michael Gove (former President of the Oxford Union) run the country.
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
"a coup d’état by a political class who did not believe in popular sovereignty" - Tony Benn on the joining of the EU without a referendum.
Now it is payback time.
What do you expect to happen after Brexit, then? What will the payback be?
It's relative. You can still get a two-bed terrace with garden in Treharris (OK, borderline Valleys!) for <50K and a three-bed 30's vintage ex-council house in Merthyr for the same. Bay-and-forecourt properties in the area are now above that and a Brookside house or a newbuild Redrow house is well above that, but neverthless you can still get <50K freehold properties in the Valleys, and they're solidly built: thick walls, slate roofs, separate kitchens and living rooms. They have the usual problem with Valley properties (sash windows, subsidence, damp, badly converted kitchens - ATTACH THE SINK OVERFLOW TO A DRAINAGE PIPE, GODDAMM IT!) but get a good one and it'll last you out, no probs.
In the south east of England it's very different. Bomb damage during WWII and building fashion means there's a shortage of terraces, so the building stock is larger houses subdivided (high ceilings! CHRIST!), or post-WWII council houses (shudder), or hideously expensive newbuilds - like I mean ~£200K for a two-bed starter house. It used to be a good rule of thumb was take a Valleys house and add £100K for the SE English equivalent, but now it's nearer £200K.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Can't they veto that proposal?
Yes.
No, they can't, not in reality (even though they can in theory)
A lot of nonsense is talked about EU vetoes. The truth is they are very rarely used in serious decisions - it's not the EU way. Everyone prefers "compromise" AKA "bullying" whereby countries are forced to submit completely, if everyone else disagrees.
So Ireland could in theory veto a harmonized eurozone corporate tax, but who would support them? Luxembourg? Who else?
If France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Spain agree to harmonize EZ corporate tax then it will be steam-rollered through over any objections, and Ireland will be threatened into agreement.
It's one reason the Irish are so desperate for us not to leave the EU, they will be much more isolated, and liable to be picked off, whatever the rules on "veto".
Germany has been trying to get at Ireland's CT rate for years without success.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Could be c*ck up, you know. Usually is.
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
But where do you draw the line? Somewhere between there and different sized boxes for the two options? Best to err on the side of caution.
Just like we have always done? Place an X in your choice or preference. Of course that wouldn't give the sublime message the council wanted to get across when the recipient was reading it over the morning wheeties. .
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Can't they veto that proposal?
Yes.
No, they can't, not in reality (even though they can in theory)
A lot of nonsense is talked about EU vetoes. The truth is they are very rarely used in serious decisions - it's not the EU way. Everyone prefers "compromise" AKA "bullying" whereby countries are forced to submit completely, if everyone else disagrees.
So Ireland could in theory veto a harmonized eurozone corporate tax, but who would support them? Luxembourg? Who else?
If France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Spain agree to harmonize EZ corporate tax then it will be steam-rollered through over any objections, and Ireland will be threatened into agreement.
It's one reason the Irish are so desperate for us not to leave the EU, they will be much more isolated, and liable to be picked off, whatever the rules on "veto".
Germany has been trying to get at Ireland's CT rate for years without success.
Well if Eire leave they can charge what they want - a low tax economy close to the single market but not bound by its rules - what's not to like?
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Can't they veto that proposal?
Yes.
No, they can't, not in reality (even though they can in theory)
A lot of nonsense is talked about EU vetoes. The truth is they are very rarely used in serious decisions - it's not the EU way. Everyone prefers "compromise" AKA "bullying" whereby countries are forced to submit completely, if everyone else disagrees.
So Ireland could in theory veto a harmonized eurozone corporate tax, but who would support them? Luxembourg? Who else?
If France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Spain agree to harmonize EZ corporate tax then it will be steam-rollered through over any objections, and Ireland will be threatened into agreement.
It's one reason the Irish are so desperate for us not to leave the EU, they will be much more isolated, and liable to be picked off, whatever the rules on "veto".
Germany has been trying to get at Ireland's CT rate for years without success.
Well if Eire leave they can charge what they want - a low tax economy close to the single market but not bound by its rules - what's not to like?
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Could be c*ck up, you know. Usually is.
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
I wouldn't be surprised, especially if people need instructions on how to fill out ballot papers as detailed as an illustration of a hand holding a pen...
An Ireland that has significant dependence on the UK economy could easily find it's corporation tax rate as the price the rest of the EU will demand for a post Brexit deal that doesn't do real damage to the Irish economy.
The UK buys more Irish manufactures than the rest of the EU (and world) combined; it buys nearly half of all it's food produce and livestock exports and it's the conduit for 90% of Ireland's power.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
And if it leaves? Its monetary policy is decided in Frankfurt, its border policy is decided in London, and whatever it chooses as its VAT rate it has a problem. Niall Ferguson reckons it'll end with UK/Ireland reunification (!), others with Ireland/Northern Ireland reunification. I don't know what will happen but I don't see the border staying as open as present.
If Ireland leaves it's monetary policy will no longer be decided in Frankfurt and its border policy will be decided in Dublin. I don't know where you get these strange ideas.
Sorry, the "Ireland leaves" refers to "leaving the EU and not the Euro" (see nested discussion) and the "border policy" refers to the fact that to keep the border open requires Ireland and the UK to synchronize their border and migration policy. If Ireland did leave the EU AND the Euro then it would be able to decide as you say, but there are problems with that (again see nested discussion)
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Could be c*ck up, you know. Usually is.
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
Who you trust to do what or how you think it happened really does not matter.
The fact remains the voting system must be seen and judged to be absolutely scrupulous and entirely above board without bias to either side.
Put it this way when you rub that ballot paper and accompanying description with a thumb they should both give that squeaky "fairy liquid" type noise.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
I wonder which company was responsible for the design and printing?
Could lead to a lot of fun if it turns out to be one of Cameron's favourites.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Could be c*ck up, you know. Usually is.
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
The fact remains the voting system must be seen and judged to be absolutely scrupulous and entirely above board without bias to either side.
Yes, it must. I don't disagree with your sentiments.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
I think the ballot papers should be recalled if people are worried about them and I perfectly well see why they might be.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
It should never have been issued in the first place and that's the point . Bristol are refusing to withdraw I understand( at the moment anyway) It's Just another of the subtle dirty tricks being played by the remain campaign for which no one will ever be held to account.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Could be c*ck up, you know. Usually is.
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
I wouldn't be surprised, especially if people need instructions on how to fill out ballot papers as detailed as an illustration of a hand holding a pen...
It's probably because the council assumes a large part of their population can't read English.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
UK workers have the right to 5.6 weeks holiday whilst the EU gives the right to 4 weeks holiday.
These are the people who will deliver Brexit. I suspect many have not voted since 1997 but they sure will be voting on 23rd June.
Voter registration is up. This isn't usually a vote of confidence in the status quo is it?
All those people who voted for Major and didn't vote in 1997 combined with those that voted for Blair in 1997 who stopped voting between then and 2010. They are not delirious with the status quo I expect.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
Those rights dont exist if you are on a zero hours contract or are forced to be self employed.
Metro lefties preened themselves about gaining such rights at the same time as allowjng mass immigration of unskilled people that provided the excess labour that enabled employers to get away with imposing zero hours contracts and the like to get round those rights and other rights in the workplace that people had had since the 1930s or before.
Then wonder why the are disliked by those whos votes they expected to receive.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
UK workers have the right to 5.6 weeks holiday whilst the EU gives the right to 4 weeks holiday.
Tory Remainers are left using the argument that Labour voters should vote Remain to keep Cameron in a job because most of their Tory colleagues who might replace him are nastier. Not the greatest message.
The most perplexing for me is Cameron arguing we need the EU to protect us from a Tory HMG on workers' rights.
WTF?
Just tells you he knows he's toast if Leave wins and that his replacement will seek to hammer British workers.
Could a Tory govt hammer british workers any harder than the last Labour one ?]
Stagnating wages, no house building, wrecked pensions, destruction of manufacturing, mass immigration and the biggest recession ever. Hard to top that frankly.
Well, the current Tory gov tape. I wonder what that could mean apart from reducing the statutory rights of employees.
It could mean lots of things.
EU legislation isn't mostly about Labour law.
And yes the current govt is simply continuing Labours polices at a slower rate which is why they have a problem with their traditional supporters
So what are the big areas of red tape that can be cut outside of labour law?
There are quite a few in my area manufacturing which just get dumped on us, try CE marking and ask what value it adds to have to employ a consultant to get you through it. Especially if you are a small company.
I would not count on that going post-Brexit. It won't for any manufacturer that exports to the EEA.
Maybe maybe not, but those people who dont sell to the EU won't have to bother with it.
Why not try high speed broadband which is 3 years late getting in to my village and where BT, my parish coucillor, my district councillor and my county councillor stood in front of our village to say approval by EU competition authorities was one of the main hold ups.
I suspect this is true as Osborne denied it.
In my experience the EU is often used by incompetent people to excuse their incompetence. In much the same way as lazy people use health and safety or political correctness to get away with not doing their jobs properly.
So if it's a vitally important worker's right it came from the EU; if it's a stultifying regulation, it's UK incompetence. Just so we're clear.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
When introduced it was 1 week paid holiday, in 1938. I suspect it rose between then and 1973.
The form asks the recipient to request in another language if needed. Interesting it gives that information in errrr...English. I admit difficult to see how they get around that for every possible language that could be needed.
The main problem is this as also quoted from that Telegraph article. The outcome of the referendum is already being called into doubt if not just postal ballots It's already being seen as a dirty trick.
"Arron Banks, a backer of the Leave EU campaign, said the leaflet was “partial and biased”. He said: “We have every reason to believe these papers are not just being sent out in Bristol but nationwide. Even the Bristol intervention could determine the outcome.
“But if it is nationwide – and we believe it is – then it is very difficult to see how any postal ballots can be taken into consideration, which throws the whole referendum into doubt"
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
Can't they veto that proposal?
Yes.
No, they can't, not in reality (even though they can in theory)
A lot of nonsense is talked about EU vetoes. The truth is they are very rarely used in serious decisions - it's not the EU way. Everyone prefers "compromise" AKA "bullying" whereby countries are forced to submit completely, if everyone else disagrees.
So Ireland could in theory veto a harmonized eurozone corporate tax, but who would support them? Luxembourg? Who else?
If France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Spain agree to harmonize EZ corporate tax then it will be steam-rollered through over any objections, and Ireland will be threatened into agreement.
It's one reason the Irish are so desperate for us not to leave the EU, they will be much more isolated, and liable to be picked off, whatever the rules on "veto".
Germany has been trying to get at Ireland's CT rate for years without success.
That's why I said "if everyone else disagrees". At the moment the Irish have the UK fighting in the same corner (and maybe Belgium & Luxembourg, but they don't really count). So corporate tax harmony has not been forced by the big countries, as the UK is a major player and might just veto.
Of course if we Brexit, then Ireland is isolated. They'd have to submit.
The other risk for Ireland is if the eurozone Federalises (which it surely will). Then there must be tax harmonisation, or it won't work, and bang goes Ireland's special tax rate.
So Ireland's advantage is doomed, any road, I suspect.
It means that at some point down the road they will have to consider leaving as well, if we do.
The form asks the recipient to request in another language if needed. Interesting it gives that information in errrr...English. I admit difficult to see how they get around that for every possible language that could be needed.
The main problem is this as also quoted from that Telegraph article. The outcome of the referendum is already being called into doubt if not just postal ballots It's already being seen as a dirty trick.
"Arron Banks, a backer of the Leave EU campaign, said the leaflet was “partial and biased”. He said: “We have every reason to believe these papers are not just being sent out in Bristol but nationwide. Even the Bristol intervention could determine the outcome.
“But if it is nationwide – and we believe it is – then it is very difficult to mess how any postal ballots can be taken into consideration, which throws the whole referendum into doubt"
Come on as if Aaron Banks would ever accept a Remain result.
The form asks the recipient to request in another language if needed. Interesting it gives that information in errrr...English. I admit difficult to see how they get around that for every possible language that could be needed.
The main problem is this as also quoted from that Telegraph article. The outcome of the referendum is already being called into doubt if not just postal ballots It's already being seen as a dirty trick.
"Arron Banks, a backer of the Leave EU campaign, said the leaflet was “partial and biased”. He said: “We have every reason to believe these papers are not just being sent out in Bristol but nationwide. Even the Bristol intervention could determine the outcome.
“But if it is nationwide – and we believe it is – then it is very difficult to mess how any postal ballots can be taken into consideration, which throws the whole referendum into doubt"
Come on as if Aaron Banks would ever accept a Remain result.
True indeed.
But the point he makes about the ballot papers is going to resonate and this concern identified by a national paper is already making its way to the electoral commission. Not good and opens up the bias accusation further.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
Those rights dont exist if you are on a zero hours contract or are forced to be self employed.
Metro lefties preened themselves about gaining such rights at the same time as allowjng mass immigration of unskilled people that provided the excess labour that enabled employers to get away with imposing zero hours contracts and the like to get round those rights and other rights in the workplace that people had had since the 1930s or before.
Then wonder why the are disliked by those whos votes they expected to receive.
Those on zero hour contracts accrue holidays just as much as those full time employed.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
When introduced it was 1 week paid holiday, in 1938. I suspect it rose between then and 1973.
It was the WTR in 1998 following the Working Time Directive which set a 48 hour working week and gave 28 days holiday and 20 minute breaks for six hours worked
It means that at some point down the road they will have to consider leaving as well, if we do.
Definitely.
And the minute one country breaks out, especially one that is the 2nd biggest economy in the EU and the 5th biggest in the world, then others will wish to.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
When introduced it was 1 week paid holiday, in 1938. I suspect it rose between then and 1973.
It was the WTR in 1998 following the Working Time Directive which set a 48 hour working week and gave 28 days holiday and 20 minute breaks for six hours worked
I remember what I thought were mandatory tea breaks in the 1980s in the public and private sectors.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Ours didn't look like that. Anyway it says "Put a cross in the box next to your choice". Will any Brexiteers put across against 'Remain' because of the drawing of the pencil? Is there anybody that stupid?
On one level, it was highly flammable - when people realised that Cameron and Osborne (and it is them) had put £9m of taxpayers banknotes under one corner of the table football, so the ball kept rolling away from Remain's goal and into the Leave net....
From what I have been hearing, people REALLY did not like that. And what is ultra-stupid is that for many, it will rob a narrow Remain win of any legitimacy. All I can think is that they must have been seeing some VERY BAD INTERNAL POLLING....
Alternatively, Mr Mark, they just think that they can do whatever they like and get away with it.
After all, that is what they did in the general election a year ago, and they still haven`t paid the price.
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
That is probably why the Tories are trying to drag it out, and make it difficult for the authorities to get hold of the evidence against them. If they were innocent, they would have nothing to fear, as somebody once said in a different context.
Last I heard the Tories had complied with the evidence requests.
On one level, it was highly flammable - when people realised that Cameron and Osborne (and it is them) had put £9m of taxpayers banknotes under one corner of the table football, so the ball kept rolling away from Remain's goal and into the Leave net....
From what I have been hearing, people REALLY did not like that. And what is ultra-stupid is that for many, it will rob a narrow Remain win of any legitimacy. All I can think is that they must have been seeing some VERY BAD INTERNAL POLLING....
Alternatively, Mr Mark, they just think that they can do whatever they like and get away with it.
After all, that is what they did in the general election a year ago, and they still haven`t paid the price.
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
That is probably why the Tories are trying to drag it out, and make it difficult for the authorities to get hold of the evidence against them. If they were innocent, they would have nothing to fear, as somebody once said in a different context.
Last I heard the Tories had complied with the evidence requests.
Not quite voluntarily, Mr D.
They weren't forced by the courts, so can't see how you can describe as such.
I get a call from Adult Social Services, a new social worker wants to visit to say hello, 3 years after the last visit. The social worker says - first words - is your mother's house still empty, why don't you put her in a care home? Obviously money is the interesting part of my mother's care. I say, she is happy here, other children visit every day and spend hours and hours with her. She is a poor eater and needs a good deal of attention that frankly she didn't get in hospital.
Now the social worker has a duty of care to the carer, and if the carer can't cope then the social worker can still build a case. The social worker's next sentence - you look depressed, why don't you go to the doctor and get some tablets - your mother should be in a care home, you can't cope.
I can't be bothered to listen so I walk the social worker into my mother's bedroom - and the social worker tries another way - she says this room is damp!!!. I point to a min max temperature and hygrometer I keep in the room - relative humidity 40%. She says - the room is damp if I say it is damp.
So I walk the social worker out of the house.
So the service which is so valuable - is it to the old person or someone else? I bought my mother's house for her and I don't care one way or the other if it is sold, but there are other members of the family who stand to inherit and if it is to be sold it would be easier for me if the council made it happen. So I phoned up Social Services and asked if do you get a fair price - the woman burst out laughing and said - shouldn't think so!
I know of people that refuse to let Adult Social Care through the door.
The former maybe, If you voted for Blair in 1997 the odds are you will be voting Remain
If you voted in 1997 and carried on voting, perhaps. If you defected to the Libdems after Iraq certainly.
But if you voted for Blair in 1997 thinking you would get a Labour government that would put the native working class first sfter 18 years of Tory abuse, and then looked in horror to discover that Labour had become politically correct Tory Lite and then stopped bothering to vote - somewhat unlikely you will vote Remain.
It will not have gone unnoticed that virtually the whole political and managerial class is pro Remain and the bonus - unlike say in the Austrian election - is that you can knee these people where it hurts on June 23rd with no risk of a demagogic nutter coming to power due to your vote.
More likely you have switched
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
When introduced it was 1 week paid holiday, in 1938. I suspect it rose between then and 1973.
It was the WTR in 1998 following the Working Time Directive which set a 48 hour working week and gave 28 days holiday and 20 minute breaks for six hours worked
I remember what I thought were mandatory tea breaks in the 1980s in the public and private sectors.
The biggest change in workers rights came from the WTR in 1998, enshrined all those measures in law
I get a call from Adult Social Services, a new social worker wants to visit to say hello, 3 years after the last visit. The social worker says - first words - is your mother's house still empty, why don't you put her in a care home? Obviously money is the interesting part of my mother's care. I say, she is happy here, other children visit every day and spend hours and hours with her. She is a poor eater and needs a good deal of attention that frankly she didn't get in hospital.
Now the social worker has a duty of care to the carer, and if the carer can't cope then the social worker can still build a case. The social worker's next sentence - you look depressed, why don't you go to the doctor and get some tablets - your mother should be in a care home, you can't cope.
I can't be bothered to listen so I walk the social worker into my mother's bedroom - and the social worker tries another way - she says this room is damp!!!. I point to a min max temperature and hygrometer I keep in the room - relative humidity 40%. She says - the room is damp if I say it is damp.
So I walk the social worker out of the house.
So the service which is so valuable - is it to the old person or someone else? I bought my mother's house for her and I don't care one way or the other if it is sold, but there are other members of the family who stand to inherit and if it is to be sold it would be easier for me if the council made it happen. So I phoned up Social Services and asked if do you get a fair price - the woman burst out laughing and said - shouldn't think so!
I know of people that refuse to let Adult Social Care through the door.
Frankly I sympathise.
It is much better for a family member to be looked after by family if available and are willing.
Social services in your case seemed to be touting for work.
The workers rigbts that mean that you are on a zero hours contract on minimum wage crossing your fingers every day that there will be some work for you and never dare questioning anything you employer asks you to do however dodgy because if you do tbe phone will stop ringing every morning and a Slovakian immigrant will get the phone call instead.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Workers rights include rights against dismissal without due process, on working hours, holiday entitlement etc, most of which derived from the EU
I know holiday rights were in an act of 1938. I don;t think we had joined the EU at that point. In fact, as I recall we were somewhat reluctant about the whole European mega state thing at the time.
Not the 28 days UK workers now get
When introduced it was 1 week paid holiday, in 1938. I suspect it rose between then and 1973.
It was the WTR in 1998 following the Working Time Directive which set a 48 hour working week and gave 28 days holiday and 20 minute breaks for six hours worked
I remember what I thought were mandatory tea breaks in the 1980s in the public and private sectors.
The biggest change in workers rights came from the WTR in 1998, enshrined all those measures in law
If they were mandatory, they were in law. If they were merely custom they wouldn't have been.
So, Brexit could end with Scottish independence, the reunification of Ireland and, now, Gibraltar ceding its sovereignty to Spain (according to its first minister):
More likely that Ireland will have a referendum about leaving the EU.
If you had said that before it joined the Euro, I'd've agreed with you. But post-Euro it can't leave, for the same reason Greece can't - it makes them automatically poor overnight. They've wargamed leaving the EU but keeping the Euro...and the results aren't great.
This is why the Irish government is running it's own pro-REMAIN campaign.
Ireland will have to put up its corporation tax to 15% if they remain in the EU.
And if it leaves? Its monetary policy is decided in Frankfurt, its border policy is decided in London, and whatever it chooses as its VAT rate it has a problem. Niall Ferguson reckons it'll end with UK/Ireland reunification (!), others with Ireland/Northern Ireland reunification. I don't know what will happen but I don't see the border staying as open as present.
If Ireland leaves it's monetary policy will no longer be decided in Frankfurt and its border policy will be decided in Dublin. I don't know where you get these strange ideas.
Sorry, the "Ireland leaves" refers to "leaving the EU and not the Euro" (see nested discussion) and the "border policy" refers to the fact that to keep the border open requires Ireland and the UK to synchronize their border and migration policy. If Ireland did leave the EU AND the Euro then it would be able to decide as you say, but there are problems with that (again see nested discussion)
As it stands under the treaties no country can be a member of the Eurozone but not of the EU.
Comments
As with immigration, where there is a sensible debate to be had, so with the "anti-establishment". They are fighting their fight with our very sensible membership of the EU as a likely casualty.
But when I click "More Comments" the comments further down have huge "stacks" where every quote of a previous quote is shown - so sometimes you get five or six previous quotes within each quote.
Is this just me or a widespread problem?
People from the Valleys have a very straightforward sense of what takes the piss too. For instance, even though we have high instances of benefits claimants, we are also the most willing to point it out when someone is frauding the system (I know one guy who was banned from the rugby club because he was a blatant scrounger and an unbearable prick). Uncontrolled EU immigration gers short-shrift round here. The concept of not being able to control the numbers of EU people coming in gets a lot of people very agitated.
All anecdotal, of course..but it wouldn't surprise me if the Valleys come out strongly for Brexit.
Whatever exists de jure, in practice those workers rights only exist in the public sector, a few unionised private sector industries like the railways and skilled higher end private sector jobs.
Sorry but your post suffers from beltway syndrome.
Mentioned yesterday and the normal suspects on this very forum stated it was a leave stunt to discredit the remain campaign. Now we see it is widespread and nothing of a sort.
The one major problem with this sort of gerrymandering of the vote by remain , along wth the 9 million quid bung for leaflets, bringing in foreign leaders to threaten us and and all the other lies issued is the aftermath.
The referendum should settle the question once and for all. If it were done fairly then that's good enough for me whatever the outcome. These antics make it much less than fair and someone should be held to account for that decision. They won't of course it will be some faceless bureaucrat in the system fully protected. Just like the EU of course.
Then again, I also struggle to see how any voter would be encouraged to change their vote based upon a dismembered hand voting to remain in the example shown.
Raised it many times on here. It occurred just after the spring clean of the system and we were on the standby site. I noticed it mid afternoon on the Sunday directly after.
Others have the same issue and no end of taking hints and guidance on here from others has removed it. Almost given up reading the site as the comments are effectively unreadable and really does my poor old eyes in.
Now it is payback time.
Dismissive comments such as " I struggle to understand" don't carry it mate .....Even if one person makes the connection that's too many and the voting system has been gerrymandered but you know that of course. Withdrawing is closing the gate after the horse has bolted but you know that as well.
I can certainly see why you love the EU so much.
Much better.
Christopher Hope @christopherhope 5m5 minutes ago
We know of one in Sittingbourne, Kent at this stage. Other reports around England. Trying to confirm them.
In the south east of England it's very different. Bomb damage during WWII and building fashion means there's a shortage of terraces, so the building stock is larger houses subdivided (high ceilings! CHRIST!), or post-WWII council houses (shudder), or hideously expensive newbuilds - like I mean ~£200K for a two-bed starter house. It used to be a good rule of thumb was take a Valleys house and add £100K for the SE English equivalent, but now it's nearer £200K.
Sorry, I'm ranting agin...
(Still struggling to understand the mechanics of someone changing their mind or being guided somehow, but then I suppose I trust the public when it comes to elections.)
Or so PB told me.
you can't help but laugh
an Etonian Oxonian fronts denials of an establishment stitch up.
The UK buys more Irish manufactures than the rest of the EU (and world) combined; it buys nearly half of all it's food produce and livestock exports and it's the conduit for 90% of Ireland's power.
The fact remains the voting system must be seen and judged to be absolutely scrupulous and entirely above board without bias to either side.
Put it this way when you rub that ballot paper and accompanying description with a thumb they should both give that squeaky "fairy liquid" type noise.
This doesn't have such a sound by far.
Could lead to a lot of fun if it turns out to be one of Cameron's favourites.
Metro lefties preened themselves about gaining such rights at the same time as allowjng mass immigration of unskilled people that provided the excess labour that enabled employers to get away with imposing zero hours contracts and the like to get round those rights and other rights in the workplace that people had had since the 1930s or before.
Then wonder why the are disliked by those whos votes they expected to receive.
The main problem is this as also quoted from that Telegraph article. The outcome of the referendum is already being called into doubt if not just postal ballots It's already being seen as a dirty trick.
"Arron Banks, a backer of the Leave EU campaign, said the leaflet was “partial and biased”. He said: “We have every reason to believe these papers are not just being sent out in Bristol but nationwide. Even the Bristol intervention could determine the outcome.
“But if it is nationwide – and we believe it is – then it is very difficult to see how any postal ballots can be taken into consideration, which throws the whole referendum into doubt"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/
But the point he makes about the ballot papers is going to resonate and this concern identified by a national paper is already making its way to the electoral commission. Not good and opens up the bias accusation further.
And the minute one country breaks out, especially one that is the 2nd biggest economy in the EU and the 5th biggest in the world, then others will wish to.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/659481/European-Union-Brussels-finance-ECB-central-bank-poorer-Cameron-Merkel-Brexit
That'll go down well.
Anyway it says "Put a cross in the box next to your choice".
Will any Brexiteers put across against 'Remain' because of the drawing of the pencil?
Is there anybody that stupid?
I get a call from Adult Social Services, a new social worker wants to visit to say hello, 3 years after the last visit. The social worker says - first words - is your mother's house still empty, why don't you put her in a care home? Obviously money is the interesting part of my mother's care. I say, she is happy here, other children visit every day and spend hours and hours with her. She is a poor eater and needs a good deal of attention that frankly she didn't get in hospital.
Now the social worker has a duty of care to the carer, and if the carer can't cope then the social worker can still build a case. The social worker's next sentence - you look depressed, why don't you go to the doctor and get some tablets - your mother should be in a care home, you can't cope.
I can't be bothered to listen so I walk the social worker into my mother's bedroom - and the social worker tries another way - she says this room is damp!!!. I point to a min max temperature and hygrometer I keep in the room - relative humidity 40%. She says - the room is damp if I say it is damp.
So I walk the social worker out of the house.
So the service which is so valuable - is it to the old person or someone else? I bought my mother's house for her and I don't care one way or the other if it is sold, but there are other members of the family who stand to inherit and if it is to be sold it would be easier for me if the council made it happen. So I phoned up Social Services and asked if do you get a fair price - the woman burst out laughing and said - shouldn't think so!
I know of people that refuse to let Adult Social Care through the door.
It is much better for a family member to be looked after by family if available and are willing.
Social services in your case seemed to be touting for work.