As suspected. Plans for a Bill of Rights are on legislative backburner with no more than a passing mention in the Queen’s Speech.
That along with lies about a Sovereignty Bill only 3 months ago et al speaks volumes.
Who wants a shameless liar as leader? Not me.
The sovereignty bill was a contortion - a physical impossibility. Had they tried to get it through, it would have fallen in the same way that the Shipping Bill in the 80's did - the Famous Factortame cases. EU law is above UK law, because we are obliged by the treaty to accept this. No law is constitutional in the UK unless it is convergent with EU law.
How is us leaving not going to end up with a superstate on our doorstep? Do you think they will abandon all plans if we leave? Will we be less marginalised if we leave than if we stay?
For me it is a logic fail.
I think you are unduly pessimistic about our prospects if we stay in. But you know that as we have had this conversation before several times so perhaps best leave it there.
No, we just won't be in it. That's the point of leaving. Yes we can still have some kind of relationship with the EU state but we wouldn't be governed by it. We would be a completely separate nation state with no political ties to the superstate, our companies would be bound to EU state standards when selling to the EU, but beyond that we would just live peaceably with it. Inside we would be party to harmonisation of law, economic policy and the military, but because we're on the sidelines we have very little say in how this all goes down so the ECJ reverts to it's default, "what's the French view".
It's not pessimistic, it is realistic. Name one single time where the government set out a position which said "it's not a political union", "we won't be affected", "Britain has opted-out" that has been proved correct. Maastricht - fail, Nice - Fail, Lisbon - Fail. Every single time our government has assured us that UK interests will be protected and we wouldn't be part of the political union, every time we have been dragged into it kicking and screaming. I'd like for the political union to be abandoned as our government so clearly wants, but history and experience has taught me otherwise, it will continue unabated by our protests, if we're in, we may as well be all-in rather than sort of in.
On each of those occasions the democratically-elected government of the UK signed up to those treaties. You may not like it, I didn't like much of it, and above all hated having a Labour government for 13 years, but there's democracy (and sovereignty) for you.
On all three occasions the public were told we had opted-out of the political union, and yet here we are with Dave securing yet another opt-out of it. The Remain side (at least those who aren't federalists) see the EU as a tool for economic gain, and it is, without a doubt. Yet, they are blind, wilfully in the case of our politicians, to the political union that the EU is chasing. I don't see how that circle can be squared without essentially taking a leading role within the EU which means joining the EMU and actually playing a leading role in setting the tone of the EU.
I think we need to wait until the referendum is over before judging this administration. Whilst the first year hasn't been great (except of course the continuing progress in the economy, George be praised), that's not too surprising given the overwhelming focus on the EU.
The big question is whether, with the small majority, Cameron and/or his successor can use the last four years to achieve as much as the 2010-2015 government did. We shall see.
A viable Coalition would have been my prefered option but ironically the Tory gains scuppered that along with the LibDem dismal performance.
I also deplore referenda, except for nation forming as with SINDY. We've almost been in stasis for almost a year both economically and politically all down to this EU plebiscite.
If politicians abrogate their responsibilities and can't make important decisions without reference to the voters again then we should cut their pay in half .... at least !!
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
I am slightly confused as to where the Sovereignty Bill has disappeared to.
That lying, treacherous quisling Cameron abandoned the idea after he lied to the British people to get himself elected.... How did it all go so wrong...
Just looked into the detail of the recent ICM polls.
The online one had a sample more than twice as big as the telephone poll. (2048 vs 1002)
In fact Remain have not had more than a 2% lead in any poll since 22nd March which surveyed more than 1250 people.
In polls with more than 1250 people Remain are ahead in 8 and Leave 12 . The majority of such polls with a remain lead (5 out of 8) were conducted before 7th April.
I am slightly confused as to where the Sovereignty Bill has disappeared to.
That lying, treacherous quisling Cameron abandoned the idea after he lied to the British people to get himself elected.... How did it all go so wrong...
They'd still vote him back in as PM.
Perhaps you're out touch?
But they won't get the opportunity... Let's see what the entirely unelectable George Osborne does to your party when Cameron goes...
How is us leaving not going to end up with a superstate on our doorstep? Do you think they will abandon all plans if we leave? Will we be less marginalised if we leave than if we stay?
For me it is a logic fail.
I think you are und it there.
No, we just won't be iolitical ties to the superstate, our companies would be bound to EU state standards when selling to the EU, but beyond that we would just live peaceably with it. Inside we would be party to harmonisation of law, economic policy and the military, but because we're on the sidelines we have very little say in how this all goes down so the ECJ reverts to it's default, "what's the French view".
It's not pessimistic, it is realistic. Name one single time where the government set out a position which said "it's not a political union", "we won't be affected", "Britain has opted-out" that has been proved correct. Maastricht - fail, Nice - Fail, Lisbon - Fail. Every single time our government has assured us that UK interests will be protected and we wouldn't be part of the political union, every time we have been dragged into it kicking and screaming. I'd like for the political union to be abandoned as our government so clearly wants, but history and experience has taught me otherwise, it will continue unabated by our protests, if we're in, we may as well be all-in rather than sort of in.
On each of those occasions the democratically-elected government of the UK signed up to those treaties. You may not like it, I didn't like much of it, and above all hated having a Labour government for 13 years, but there's democracy (and sovereignty) for you.
On all three occasions the public were told we had opted-out of the political union, and yet here we are with Dave securing yet another opt-out of it. The Remain side (at least those who aren't federalists) see the EU as a tool for economic gain, and it is, without a doubt. Yet, they are blind, wilfully in the case of our politicians, to the political union that the EU is chasing. I don't see how that circle can be squared without essentially taking a leading role within the EU which means joining the EMU and actually playing a leading role in setting the tone of the EU.
I think that is a problem with UK politicians more than a problem with the EU. Politicians have promised any amount of old bolleaux over the years only for them to renege or reinterpret their promises. In this case the EU is the subject.
If the country really cared they would have voted UKIP and we would be out of it by now. Except they realise that UKIP politicians are at best as bad and arguably worse than the lot we have at the moment.
(I don't think politicians are lying duplicitous b*st*rds, btw, but I do think they try to square a lot of circles.)
I am slightly confused as to where the Sovereignty Bill has disappeared to.
They think they're going to win, so they don't need it.
They really are an utterly deplorable parasite lodged in the underbelly of the Conservative party.
If the Conservative party without the Cameronite faction is so awful and unelectable, it seems a good solution for the Cameronites to move on and form their own party. Their miraculous electability will obviously shine through, and the old Tory party can finally be discredited and rejected. Or not.
I also deplore referenda, except for nation forming as with SINDY. We've almost been in stasis for almost a year both economically and politically all down to this EU plebiscite.
If politicians abrogate their responsibilities and can't make important decisions without reference to the voters again then we should cut their pay in half .... at least !!
In general I agree, but this is a bit of a special case. It could only be resolved by a referendum, and the collateral damage is just a price which has to be paid - if not now, then it would have to be paid later.
Just looked into the detail of the recent ICM polls.
The online one had a sample more than twice as big as the telephone poll. (2048 vs 1002)
In fact Remain have not had more than a 2% lead in any poll since 22nd March which surveyed more than 1250 people.
In polls with more than 1250 people Remain are ahead in 8 and Leave 12 . The majority of such polls with a remain lead (5 out of 8) were conducted before 7th April.
Size isn't important. At the 2010 GE the final ICM phone poll with 2k respondents was a lot more accurate than the final YouGov poll which had 6,000 respondents.
Just looked into the detail of the recent ICM polls.
The online one had a sample more than twice as big as the telephone poll. (2048 vs 1002)
In fact Remain have not had more than a 2% lead in any poll since 22nd March which surveyed more than 1250 people.
In polls with more than 1250 people Remain are ahead in 8 and Leave 12 . The majority of such polls with a remain lead (5 out of 8) were conducted before 7th April.
Leave ... a new future with a few bumps in the road. Even more need to work together.
Remain ... political union, a European army, European decision-making, with one twenty seventh of the input. And hopefully no complaints from the Remainers that this wasn't what they voted for. Oh yes, it was.
I think we should join the Euro post remain. Whats the point of being in Europe if we're going to lose money to the exchange desks every time we head off to Europe ?
I said this at the start, I'd rather be out or in, our halfway house suits no one. If it is Remain, then I'd probably prefer to join the Eurozone and just say "fuck it" and take on the Germans and French at their own game. It would probably all end in tears, but at least no one could accuse us of not trying. The status quo doesn't help us and it doesn't help them. Additionally, we could benefit from a weaker currency like the Euro, and our addition to the EMU would probably weaken it further given our huge current account deficit.
We are in an OK place (ECJ striking down the deal nothwithstanding).
If (big if for Leavers, I grant you), the deal has teeth, we have created a 2-speed europe. Which gives us the best of both worlds, IMO.
Immigration apart, which of course for those who care will not be addressed at all.
No it doesn't it creates a superstate on our doorstep, one in which we have no say in the governance of but are still going to be a part of in some manner. The status quo, even in the event that Dave's deal is somehow made binding, doesn't suit us politically or, eventually, economically. Do we really want to be Canada to the EU superstate being told by our larger neighbour exactly what to do and to like it? Or is it better to be California or New York within the superstate. Personally I'd rather not be in either position and cast our net globally, but in the event of a remain vote, that isn't going to happen. Remainers need to face up to the political reality that in order to gain 2-4% GDP you're enabling hardcore federalists and hitching the UK to that train. I've been upfront about it, the post-Brexit market turbulence is, on balance, a price worth paying for getting out of the political nightmare of the EU, the Remain side is oddly silent on the looming threat of the EU super state and what role we would have either with our current approach or when it becomes clear that the status quo just means marginalisation within the EU, all the negatives with few to none of the positives.
It's hard to disagree with that. If the British are a lot of grumblers but secretly quite europhile in the ballot box then our current position makes no sense.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
It might be a single poll but it's thoroughly demoralising for Leave. For me there's no way that kind of lead can be overhauled. Although I have always been in favour of our membership I have two strong vote leavers living under my roof and I'm guessing they might be braving this coming wet Saturday delivering leaflets and manning stalld wondering why they are doing this.
How is us leaving not going to end up with a superstate on our doorstep? Do you think they will abandon all plans if we leave? Will we be less marginalised if we leave than if we stay?
For me it is a logic fail.
I think you are unduly pessimistic about our prospects if we stay in. But you know that as we have had this conversation before several times so perhaps best leave it there.
No, we just won't be in it. That's the point of leaving. Yes we can still have some kind of relationship with the EU state but we wouldn't be governed by it. We would be a completely separate nation state with no political ties to the superstate, our companies would be bound to EU state standards when selling to the EU, but beyond that we would just live peaceably with it.
This argument completely ignores geopolitics and is an abnegation of Britain historic role as a key actor on the European continent. For as long as there is an EU, we need to be in it.
No we don't. We have been a key actor by remaining somewhat remote from Europe and only getting involved when absolutely necessary. Being inside the EU actually reduces our powers not increases them. We have seen for 40 years or more how powerless we are to stop the development of EU statehood and there is nothing that will change that.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
Quite sensible again.
I imagine there's a limit to the pleasure one can derive from seeing the Queen in her geegaws being used as a ventriloquists dummy for Cameron's verbal effluent every year.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
Angus MacNeil wins the prize for brass neck - two rows behind the PM rolling his eyes at Trident...
How is us leaving not going to end up with a superstate on our doorstep? Do you think they will abandon all plans if we leave? Will we be less marginalised if we leave than if we stay?
For me it is a logic fail.
I think you are unduly pessimistic about our prospects if we stay in. But you know that as we have had this conversation before several times so perhaps best leave it there.
No, we just won't be in it. That's the point of leaving. Yes we can still have some kind of relationship with the EU state but we wouldn't be governed by it. We would be a completely separate nation state with no political ties to the superstate, our companies would be bound to EU state standards when selling to the EU, but beyond that we would just live peaceably with it.
This argument completely ignores geopolitics and is an abnegation of Britain historic role as a key actor on the European continent. For as long as there is an EU, we need to be in it.
No we don't. We have been a key actor by remaining somewhat remote from Europe and only getting involved when absolutely necessary. Being inside the EU actually reduces our powers not increases them. We have seen for 40 years or more how powerless we are to stop the development of EU statehood and there is nothing that will change that.
No ever closer union, no currency union, no discrimination EZ vs non-EZ.
It might be a single poll but it's thoroughly demoralising for Leave. For me there's no way that kind of lead can be overhauled. Although I have always been in favour of our membership I have two strong vote leavers living under my roof and I'm guessing they might be braving this coming wet Saturday delivering leaflets and manning stalld wondering why they are doing this.
Is almost like people have forgotten the polling snafu of 2015
While this poll is a blow to the Leavers and a fillip to Remainers, there's still a while to polling day, and events (rather than utterances) have the potential to change things completely. In particular, a major terrorist outrage in the UK perpetrated by e.g. French citizens of Middle Eastern heritage would probably do it. And if we accept the view that ISIS would see Brexit as a symbol of the breakdown of western cohesion, then there may well be such plans afoot. Perhaps that's wrong - maybe ISIS don't care about the issue - but it does worry me a bit.
It might be a single poll but it's thoroughly demoralising for Leave. For me there's no way that kind of lead can be overhauled. Although I have always been in favour of our membership I have two strong vote leavers living under my roof and I'm guessing they might be braving this coming wet Saturday delivering leaflets and manning stalld wondering why they are doing this.
But this is the only recent poll showing this kind of lead and the online polls are showing a totally different picture. This isn't in the bag for Remain, not nearly.
There are still five weeks of campaigning left, plus TV debates.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
Angus MacNeil wins the prize for brass neck - two rows behind the PM rolling his eyes at Trident...
I'm sure there's a joke to be made about Angus MacNeil's submarine....
I honestly think he'd rather be a Lib Dem EU President, than a British PM looking after British interests.
He couldn't care less about the UK that much is obvious.
I assume a life of vast wealth and luxury far away from this dump awaits Posh Boy Cameron... Lets hope he goes as soon as possible (WIlson went quickly after 1975, fingers crossed Cameron will follow his example)
In general I agree, but this is a bit of a special case. It could only be resolved by a referendum, and the collateral damage is just a price which has to be paid - if not now, then it would have to be paid later.
I disagree.
If voters wanted out of the EU then they had the option to vote for UKIP or Con LEAVE candidates at the general election.
The "collateral damage" has been in my opinion significant. Uncertainty damaging the economy and a government riven by dissent, division and a policy programme thinner than OGH's hair .... and worst of all John O lost his seat.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
Angus MacNeil wins the prize for brass neck - two rows behind the PM rolling his eyes at Trident...
I'm sure there's a joke to be made about Angus MacNeil's submarine....
I think that is a problem with UK politicians more than a problem with the EU. Politicians have promised any amount of old bolleaux over the years only for them to renege or reinterpret their promises. In this case the EU is the subject.
If the country really cared they would have voted UKIP and we would be out of it by now. Except they realise that UKIP politicians are at best as bad and arguably worse than the lot we have at the moment.
(I don't think politicians are lying duplicitous b*st*rds, btw, but I do think they try to square a lot of circles.)
Well you're making my point for me, how do you square the circle of our marginalisation within the EU if we stay under the current status quo terms? I would do it by, preferably, leaving or by going all in. The idea that has been sold to the British public by politicians, either of the Labour or Tory kind, that we can have a third way within the EU, a one foot out of the door approach, is clearly rubbish. Every time they have said we could do it they have been proved wrong. They said when we didn't going the EMU that we would still be at the heart of the EU, that's bullshit, they said when we opted out of the "political union" it would no longer be an issue, and yet here we are trying to opt-out of it again.
The Remain side must look at the EU for what it really is, not what their ideal version of it is. It is a political union designed to create a superstate, not just a loose economic partnership with harmonisation of goods standards.
Just as I am voting to Leave knowing that it will cause some extent of economic uncertainty in the short term, the remain side must do so knowing that it will lead Britain down the path of further marginalisation under the current deal, or having to go all in.
No we don't. We have been a key actor by remaining somewhat remote from Europe and only getting involved when absolutely necessary. Being inside the EU actually reduces our powers not increases them. We have seen for 40 years or more how powerless we are to stop the development of EU statehood and there is nothing that will change that.
You have a particular position on what our goals within the EU ought to be and interpret the lack of progress of your agenda as a sign of our powerlessness rather than your own marginalisation.
I am slightly confused as to where the Sovereignty Bill has disappeared to.
They think they're going to win, so they don't need it.
They really are an utterly deplorable parasite lodged in the underbelly of the Conservative party.
If the Conservative party without the Cameronite faction is so awful and unelectable, it seems a good solution for the Cameronites to move on and form their own party. Their miraculous electability will obviously shine through, and the old Tory party can finally be discredited and rejected. Or not. </blockquote
Maybe the right of the Conservative party would be better forming their own party/ making some sort of alliance with UKIP, if winning elections is so umpalatable.
How is us leaving not going to end up with a superstate on our doorstep? Do you think they will abandon all plans if we leave? Will we be less marginalised if we leave than if we stay?
For me it is a logic fail.
I think you are unduly pessimistic about our prospects if we stay in. But you know that as we have had this conversation before several times so perhaps best leave it there.
No, we just won't be in it. That's the point of leaving. Yes we can still have some kind of relationship with the EU state but we wouldn't be governed by it. We would be a completely separate nation state with no political ties to the superstate, our companies would be bound to EU state standards when selling to the EU, but beyond that we would just live peaceably with it.
This argument completely ignores geopolitics and is an abnegation of Britain historic role as a key actor on the European continent. For as long as there is an EU, we need to be in it.
No we don't. We have been a key actor by remaining somewhat remote from Europe and only getting involved when absolutely necessary. Being inside the EU actually reduces our powers not increases them. We have seen for 40 years or more how powerless we are to stop the development of EU statehood and there is nothing that will change that.
No ever closer union, no currency union, no discrimination EZ vs non-EZ.
The very definition of "somewhat remote".
There is no protection from ever closer union nor from discrimination EZ vs non-EZ. It simply does not exist. I am afraid if you are basing your views on those myths you are going to be very disappointed.
The Ipsos Mori poll show the voters don't believe Dave's War and Peace lines yet there's still a swing to Remain.
Remarkable.
It would appear odd at first glance, but its more the IMF that has pushed the agenda for Dave. He's simply making himself a laughing stock and the lack of a coherent leave plan from Vote Leave has let him off the hook.
I don't think the gap will be that wide in the end, but a turning point has been reached from which I don't think Leave will recover, credibility has been stretched too far. Nobody is believable so people will cling to Nurse.
I am slightly confused as to where the Sovereignty Bill has disappeared to.
That lying, treacherous quisling Cameron abandoned the idea after he lied to the British people to get himself elected.... How did it all go so wrong...
They'd still vote him back in as PM.
Perhaps you're out touch?
Maybe i am - if this poll is true then I've totally misread the character of the British people.
I thought people like Plato, Cyclefree, Max PB, Philip Thompson, Sean Fear, Pulpstar, Sunil, Robert Smithson, Charles, Morris Dancer, Richard Tyndall and Gin1138 represented the common ground of British politics.
If it turns out I (and they) are wrong then there will be a lot of thinking to do.
I myself won't have much interest in carrying on in politics. So enjoy it.
It appears from video doing the rounds that Corbyn just completed ignored Cameron and resisted all attempts for a little small talk on the way into Queen's talk. What's wrong with these people?
Strikes me as quite sensible.
According to Paul Waugh, it was the first time in 33 years that Corbyn had turned up for the Queen's Speech. No wonder he looked so bloody miserable.
Quite sensible again.
I imagine there's a limit to the pleasure one can derive from seeing the Queen in her geegaws being used as a ventriloquists dummy for Cameron's verbal effluent every year.
The Ipsos Mori poll show the voters don't believe Dave's War and Peace lines yet there's still a swing to Remain.
Remarkable.
A week is a long time in politics. Don't crow just yet my friend.
No crowing here, just calming down the more hyperbolic posters.
A single vote has yet to be cast.
I so won't be doing an IOS
Both of those polls were 2000+
Once you start falling below 2000 it gets more iffy. Many of the polls showing a remain lead were about 1000 and some less than that (800 for a couple).
Suspect it reflects the increasing difficulty phone polling companies have getting people to co-operate rather than not answering or slamming the phone down when they realise it is an unsolicited call centre phoning.
It's hard to disagree with that. If the British are a lot of grumblers but secretly quite europhile in the ballot box then our current position makes no sense.
When we vote REMAIN we should sign up to the full superstate package. The Euro. The single army. The single President. The anthem. The flag. All of it. We can't continue with our present absurd position of moaning endlessly about the whole thing but continuing to want to be a part of it.
We have to take revenge on Cameron and particularly Osborne for what they've done but when they've gone I think we must seize our destiny by casting ourselves away from being a sovereign nation and accepting, even embracing, the face we are mere insignificant State on the outmost part of the United Sates Of Europe...
Once you start falling below 2000 it gets more iffy.
Speaking as a mathematician rather than a politician, no, really not. Obviously the more complete and representative sample you have, the better, to the point where you canvass everyone who will vote and if they all tell the truth you have a variation of 0.00%. But it's a logarithmic curve and it flattens out very quickly after 1000. If you imagine picking green and red apples out of a tub, you'll get a very similar result whether you pick 1000 or 2000 or 10000 - what you need is enough to establish the pattern.
Where polls can go hideously wrong is in their sampling and assumptions, and since we're all scrabbling to decide how to predict differential turnout in the referendum, it makes good sense to look at a variety of polls making different assumptions. If I was a Leaver I certainly wouldn't freak out over one poll. But the sample size isn't really the issue.
Comments
If you're having two birthdays every year, no wonder you're so old...
The Ipsos Mori poll show the voters don't believe Dave's War and Peace lines yet there's still a swing to Remain.
Remarkable.
I also deplore referenda, except for nation forming as with SINDY. We've almost been in stasis for almost a year both economically and politically all down to this EU plebiscite.
If politicians abrogate their responsibilities and can't make important decisions without reference to the voters again then we should cut their pay in half .... at least !!
Demoted after the disastrous election campaign. As predicted.
Perhaps you're out touch?
The online one had a sample more than twice as big as the telephone poll. (2048 vs 1002)
In fact Remain have not had more than a 2% lead in any poll since 22nd March which surveyed more than 1250 people.
In polls with more than 1250 people Remain are ahead in 8 and Leave 12 . The majority of such polls with a remain lead (5 out of 8) were conducted before 7th April.
These measures appear contradictory to me. ;-)
@politicshome: Lord Heseltine is a "frightful old humbug", says Jacob Rees-Mogg after Boris Johnson attack. https://t.co/4SxjjEE6YB https://t.co/J6w145JlGn
If the country really cared they would have voted UKIP and we would be out of it by now. Except they realise that UKIP politicians are at best as bad and arguably worse than the lot we have at the moment.
(I don't think politicians are lying duplicitous b*st*rds, btw, but I do think they try to square a lot of circles.)
If the Conservative party without the Cameronite faction is so awful and unelectable, it seems a good solution for the Cameronites to move on and form their own party. Their miraculous electability will obviously shine through, and the old Tory party can finally be discredited and rejected. Or not.
And Swinney paid the price.
A single vote has yet to be cast.
I so won't be doing an IOS
But coming from a resident of NW8 I'm hardly surprised ..
I imagine there's a limit to the pleasure one can derive from seeing the Queen in her geegaws being used as a ventriloquists dummy for Cameron's verbal effluent every year.
All day, every day.
You know it makes sense...
The very definition of "somewhat remote".
Remember Istanbul and all those halftime SMS's congratulating Galliani.
There are still five weeks of campaigning left, plus TV debates.
I assume a life of vast wealth and luxury far away from this dump awaits Posh Boy Cameron... Lets hope he goes as soon as possible (WIlson went quickly after 1975, fingers crossed Cameron will follow his example)
If voters wanted out of the EU then they had the option to vote for UKIP or Con LEAVE candidates at the general election.
The "collateral damage" has been in my opinion significant. Uncertainty damaging the economy and a government riven by dissent, division and a policy programme thinner than OGH's hair .... and worst of all John O lost his seat.
Self inflicted and unnecessary.
Leave haven't put together a plausible economic case for Leave. It's the economy, stupid.
(Not calling your good self stupid. It's a phrase)
The Remain side must look at the EU for what it really is, not what their ideal version of it is. It is a political union designed to create a superstate, not just a loose economic partnership with harmonisation of goods standards.
Just as I am voting to Leave knowing that it will cause some extent of economic uncertainty in the short term, the remain side must do so knowing that it will lead Britain down the path of further marginalisation under the current deal, or having to go all in.
I don't think the gap will be that wide in the end, but a turning point has been reached from which I don't think Leave will recover, credibility has been stretched too far. Nobody is believable so people will cling to Nurse.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
I thought people like Plato, Cyclefree, Max PB, Philip Thompson, Sean Fear, Pulpstar, Sunil, Robert Smithson, Charles, Morris Dancer, Richard Tyndall and Gin1138 represented the common ground of British politics.
If it turns out I (and they) are wrong then there will be a lot of thinking to do.
I myself won't have much interest in carrying on in politics. So enjoy it.
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-75
Once you start falling below 2000 it gets more iffy. Many of the polls showing a remain lead were about 1000 and some less than that (800 for a couple).
Suspect it reflects the increasing difficulty phone polling companies have getting people to co-operate rather than not answering or slamming the phone down when they realise it is an unsolicited call centre phoning.
We have to take revenge on Cameron and particularly Osborne for what they've done but when they've gone I think we must seize our destiny by casting ourselves away from being a sovereign nation and accepting, even embracing, the face we are mere insignificant State on the outmost part of the United Sates Of Europe...
Where polls can go hideously wrong is in their sampling and assumptions, and since we're all scrabbling to decide how to predict differential turnout in the referendum, it makes good sense to look at a variety of polls making different assumptions. If I was a Leaver I certainly wouldn't freak out over one poll. But the sample size isn't really the issue.