Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Undefined discussion subject.

124

Comments

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,625
    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    Zac can still make trouble for Cameron if Heathrow R3 gets the go ahead and Zac forces a by election.

    Presumably Zac would stand as an Independent (or Green).
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump in Omaha, Nebraska...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUz5lQNygPQ

    Obviously has a "women problem"...

    Virgin Airlines stewardesses.
    I'll take your word for it...
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.
    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Yorkcity said:

    surbiton said:

    Yorkcity said:

    surbiton said:

    Who is this Jo Cox ? Which seat does she represent.

    Clearly she was sent out as an outrider by her masters and then they slipped away when the results were not so bad.

    Sad, there are Labour Party people who wants Labour to do badly.

    MP up my end Batley , used to be quite marginal I think.
    I think I read she put Corbyn on the ballot for a greater discussion.
    Why is she on the TV screens ? Where are the cowardly Blairite puppet-masters.
    Chris Leslie was on BBC news channel most of the afternoon very upset.
    Does he count as a Blairite ?
    He is another one obsessed with hating Corbyn. To actually hope that his own party should do badly and then being upset that it didn't shows lack of political maturity.

    Cooper, Burnham, even 4% Kendall was nowhere to be seen.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,339
    Fenster said:

    There's far too much hysteria and self-flagellation here in Wales from liberals about Ukip which bizarrely looks a little parochial for people who see themselves as outward looking. Have they SEEN some of the politicians in other countries? If France gets Le Pen, America gets Trump, the Netherlands gets Wilders and we get Neil Hamilton we should consider ourselves lucky.

    Agree. We are commendably un-extreme here.

    I often see George and Dave depicted as right wing ideologues and then I see the Trump attack videos "I'll get rid of gun free zones in schools" and think... well, we are incredibly civilised in comparison.

    Even commie-sympathising, Hamas befriending, tax raising Jezza is unfailingly polite and nice to everyone. And even bicycles to work with a safety helmet on ☺

    He's not exactly Kim Jung! !
    Lol, there's a lot in what you say!
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Yorkcity said:

    Surely the Khan story from a humble start to London Mayor and his support for gay marriage is a great example for London and the rest of the world.

    You have seriously low expectations for politicians if humble origins and support for gay marriage — in 2016 — is considered some sort of achievement. That makes him no more exceptional than 10s of millions of other people. Wow, how amazing "he doesn't hate the gays."
    Yorkcity said:

    It shows Britain at its best a democratic beacon in a troubled world.
    London should be very proud tonight.

    Get a grip. Celebrating the fact a man is not a total nutter like some potential and previous candidates. Surely that is the bare minimum we should expect, not something of note.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,071
    RodCrosby said:

    Trump in Omaha, Nebraska...

    Obviously has a "women problem"...

    I hope the person doing the video streaming will be involved in planning the inauguration ceremony.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    It is possible that low turnout could help UKIP but too low turnout doesn't. UKIP appeal is also towards the "they are all bad, I am not voting for anyone anymore" crowd. If only 20% turnout, it's more likely that they are diehards than the disilused.

    Mark Burns-Williamson re-elected as West Yorkshire PCC

    PPCs finished for today. Only the 4 Welsh PCCs left to be elected but they were not counting today

    I was interested to see in Leics that Labour took the PCC from Con on a 19% turnout with no other elections. UKIP were in 4th and about 20% of voters included no second preference.

    What to take from this?

    1) low turnout doesn't help UKIP much, if at all.

    2) Labour voters turn out even for fairly obscure elections

    I am not convinced that low turnout will help Leave much.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Trump, the cool, vigorous Alpha Male

    versus...

    THIS?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0hYABkbMo
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Is Trump still reading the snake poem? :D
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Does anybody Know where I can find a full spreadsheet of the Scottish results? I've tried google but cant find one yet.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    At what time do we think the London Mayoral results will be officially anounced? I know Khan is unofficially the winner, but I prefer to wait until it's official.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    That is a very astute observation.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,115
    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    Murphy scrambled up a greasy pole at the speed of light to get the SLab job. No one else including Miliband was responsible for that.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited May 2016

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    London declaration confirmed to delayed until midnight. I will go bed. It would be 1 AM for me. I need sleep
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,856
    Just seen OGH on Bloomberg passing on his pearls of wisdom to the American business world via Skype.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    It reminds me Nick of what you wrote to me once and which I still remember well.

    You said the Tories aren't that bad...... and actually they are mostly in politics for the right reasons or words to that effect.

    I hope you do not mind me divulging the contents of private emails, but it kind of demonstrates what a civilised, balanced sort of chap you are.

    Fenster said:

    There's far too much hysteria and self-flagellation here in Wales from liberals about Ukip which bizarrely looks a little parochial for people who see themselves as outward looking. Have they SEEN some of the politicians in other countries? If France gets Le Pen, America gets Trump, the Netherlands gets Wilders and we get Neil Hamilton we should consider ourselves lucky.

    Agree. We are commendably un-extreme here.

    I often see George and Dave depicted as right wing ideologues and then I see the Trump attack videos "I'll get rid of gun free zones in schools" and think... well, we are incredibly civilised in comparison.

    Even commie-sympathising, Hamas befriending, tax raising Jezza is unfailingly polite and nice to everyone. And even bicycles to work with a safety helmet on ☺

    He's not exactly Kim Jung! !
    Lol, there's a lot in what you say!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Mark Burns-Williamson re-elected as West Yorkshire PCC

    PPCs finished for today. Only the 4 Welsh PCCs left to be elected but they were counting today

    I was at the count for that earlier and left early after becoming bored at the huge amount of time it took to go through the very many spoilt papers (of which hardly any were funny, though an awful lot of people can't follow a simple instruction). It was obvious which way it was going anyway, with the only questions surrounding Burns-Williamson and the 50% hurdle, and the English Democrats and the deposit. The thought of a second round of counting after having had just two hours sleep since early yesterday morning was too much.

    Besides, I had my pbc piece to write (so apologies for any dip in quality).

    Oh yeah, we also had a scan this morning, scheduled between the counts. It's a boy.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794

    London declaration confirmed to delayed until midnight. I will go bed. It would be 1 AM for me. I need sleep

    Thank you
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311
    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,249

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Mentioning spoilt ballots, I see that there were 28,346 of them for the W Mids PCC election. Wouldn't fancy being the agent there.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    The SLAB Holyrood survivors

    Kezia Dugdale
    Neil Findlay
    Mark Griffin
    Elaine Smith
    Johann Lamont
    James Kelly
    Jenny Marra
    Lewis McDonald
    Iain Gray
    Claudia Beamisch
    Rhoda Grant
    David Stewart
    Alex Rowley
    Claire Baker
    Jackie Baillie
    Neil Bibby
    Mary Fee
    Ken McIntosh

    Newcomers

    Richard Leonard
    Monica Lennon
    Anas Sarwar
    Pauline McNeill (comeback from the 1999-2011 period)
    Daniel Johnson
    Colin Smyth
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,071
    RodCrosby said:

    Trump, the cool, vigorous Alpha Male

    versus...

    THIS?

    Have you seen Camille Paglia's speculation that she's using high-necked tops to cover up a medical issue?

    She also has this to say:
    But Hillary, consumed by her own restless bitterness, has no such tranquility. The wheels must grind! The future must be conquered! Past slights must be avenged! So it’s all planning and scheming and piling up loot, the material emblem of existential worth. It’s all talk and more talk about ideals and values without actually achieving anything concrete–except, of course, for Hillary’s one notable legacy, the destabilization of North Africa.
    http://www.salon.com/2016/05/05/its_not_about_sexism_camille_paglia_on_trump_hillarys_restless_bitterness_and_the_end_of_the_elites/
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    dr_spyn said:
    Why is it always midnight? Every single time.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2016
    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    Minimal competition, to be fair...
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
    If he's sensible Osborne will be moved.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    Zac can still make trouble for Cameron if Heathrow R3 gets the go ahead and Zac forces a by election.

    Presumably Zac would stand as an Independent (or Green).
    Dave can go ahead with H3 now. Zac allowed himself to become part of a failed and ugly campaign, and is very tarnished goods now, conveniently for Dave/H3...
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump, the cool, vigorous Alpha Male

    versus...

    THIS?

    Have you seen Camille Paglia's speculation that she's using high-necked tops to cover up a medical issue?

    She also has this to say:
    But Hillary, consumed by her own restless bitterness, has no such tranquility. The wheels must grind! The future must be conquered! Past slights must be avenged! So it’s all planning and scheming and piling up loot, the material emblem of existential worth. It’s all talk and more talk about ideals and values without actually achieving anything concrete–except, of course, for Hillary’s one notable legacy, the destabilization of North Africa.
    http://www.salon.com/2016/05/05/its_not_about_sexism_camille_paglia_on_trump_hillarys_restless_bitterness_and_the_end_of_the_elites/

    Clinton's a hag, with some serious health issues, as well as mental issues.

    She actually looked liked Aileen Wuornos in part of that video...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
    If they are imposed without agreement there will be more strikes in June. I am fairly sure that Dave does not want that. Hunt will blink first.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    Zac can still make trouble for Cameron if Heathrow R3 gets the go ahead and Zac forces a by election.

    Presumably Zac would stand as an Independent (or Green).
    Dave can go ahead with H3 now. Zac allowed himself to become part of a failed and ugly campaign, and is very tarnished goods now, conveniently for Dave/H3...
    Wish they would get on with it, whatever one gets done. Ridiculous how many years it has taken.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    "they"..............................

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
    Maybe they don't want the result being announced on the same day that Lynton Crosby got his knighthood
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    "they"..............................

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
    Maybe they don't want the result being announced on the same day that Lynton Crosby got his knighthood

    The perfect alibi for Lynton!
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They'd hate to be put in the position but if it was a choice as in 2010, between a tired administration that'd lost seats and public support on the one hand, and a party that had made gains and had an increased mandate on the other, which rock do you tie yourself to?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They'd hate to be put in the position but if it was a choice as in 2010, between a tired administration that'd lost seats and public support on the one hand, and a party that had made gains and had an increased mandate on the other, which rock do you tie yourself to?
    Neither - let them govern as a minority and have a confidence and supply arrangement.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2016

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They'd hate to be put in the position but if it was a choice as in 2010, between a tired administration that'd lost seats and public support on the one hand, and a party that had made gains and had an increased mandate on the other, which rock do you tie yourself to?
    Neither. A minority government.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I've seen Klimlov's 1980's WW2 masterpiece "Come and See" again recently, perhaps the most nihilistic film ever made.

    I am bracing myself for Son of Saul- I have it to watch it, but have to get through the Act of Killing first which I still cannot bring myself to watch.

    For light reading I am just finishing Robert's autobiography of Napoleon which is superb.
    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
    So it'll have to be Mark Williams, a peer or a councillor/activist then.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    A parish councilor would be appropriate

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
    So it'll have to be Mark Williams, a peer or a councillor/activist then.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They'd hate to be put in the position but if it was a choice as in 2010, between a tired administration that'd lost seats and public support on the one hand, and a party that had made gains and had an increased mandate on the other, which rock do you tie yourself to?
    Neither - let them govern as a minority and have a confidence and supply arrangement.
    Not that simple though. Come a confidence question, you have to pick one or the other unless you're willing to instigate new elections.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
    If he's sensible Osborne will be moved.
    Absolutely together with Hunt, Nicky Morgan and Justine Greening
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tyson said:

    I've seen Klimlov's 1980's WW2 masterpiece "Come and See" again recently, perhaps the most nihilistic film ever made.

    I am bracing myself for Son of Saul- I have it to watch it, but have to get through the Act of Killing first which I still cannot bring myself to watch.

    For light reading I am just finishing Robert's autobiography of Napoleon which is superb.

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    "Come and See" really sticks in the memory, as does "Shoah".

    I shall look out for "Son of Saul".
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They'd hate to be put in the position but if it was a choice as in 2010, between a tired administration that'd lost seats and public support on the one hand, and a party that had made gains and had an increased mandate on the other, which rock do you tie yourself to?
    Neither - let them govern as a minority and have a confidence and supply arrangement.
    Not that simple though. Come a confidence question, you have to pick one or the other unless you're willing to instigate new elections.
    Well, surely only one of them will form a minority government? So it's either support them, or call an election. I'm not totally familiar with the procedure, could they vote down a budget, for example, but then not vote for the motion of no confidence, or is it automatic? (I really should know this)
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
    If they are imposed without agreement there will be more strikes in June. I am fairly sure that Dave does not want that. Hunt will blink first.
    Let the doctors get on with it but Hunt will not move
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    A parish councilor would be appropriate

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
    So it'll have to be Mark Williams, a peer or a councillor/activist then.
    Ouch!
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Fenster..maybe you should ask those hardliners in the Valleys to stick their head out of the door..look up and own the street..see what is missing..most things..and then ask them what Labour has done for them over the last seven decades....answer..zilch.. They are where Labour want them..impoverished and bitter.

    WOW, just wow

    Where is your evidence that the Tories are making things better for poor Labour voting regions?

    Labour threw a lifeline to areas like Wales and the North East, the Tories have to be dragged kicking and screaming to Port Talbot, not to mention the huge cuts to labour voting councils compared to the leafy Tory shires.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Sorry. I swear it was tongue in cheek
    welshowl said:

    A parish councilor would be appropriate

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
    So it'll have to be Mark Williams, a peer or a councillor/activist then.
    Ouch!
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    RodCrosby said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    Minimal competition, to be fair...
    This is several divisions better than the likes of 'Schindler's list' or 'Life is Beautiful' or the dozens of others.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311
    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Just wrong as far as I am concerned
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Sloppy seconds. You have to wait for Reckless to wipe Hamilton off and give them five minutes before they can have another go.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They would not go into Coalition with them no but if they were the largest party they may not vote down a Tory government in a confidence vote either
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    RodCrosby said:

    Trump, the cool, vigorous Alpha Male

    versus...

    THIS?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0hYABkbMo

    Yes, she was beating him by 9 points yesterday, she is a tough woman and her coalition of women and minorities beats his of white males
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Sloppy seconds. You have to wait for Reckless to wipe Hamilton off and give them five minutes before they can have another go.
    Jeez that and Louis van Gaal's comment in the same week. I won't sleep for a month now....
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They would not go into Coalition with them no but if they were the largest party they may not vote down a Tory government in a confidence vote either
    I suspect they would take any opportunity to distance themselves from the Tories.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Sorry. I swear it was tongue in cheek

    welshowl said:

    A parish councilor would be appropriate

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Alun Michael is currently PCC for South Wales...actually the count is on Sunday but h he should be re-elected. Even if probably he should consider retirement as he's in his 70s. He looked quite old on the labourdoorstep.

    Roger said:

    It's interesting how party leaders ruin colleagues reputations and careers without a backward glance. Usually to enhance their own. Blair was notable for doing it. Remember that minister Alun Michael prospective first Minister in Wales? He ended up losing because no one wanted a Blair apointee and was sacked for his trouble.

    Then there was the hapless frank Dobson for mayor of London. Ken saw him off and Frank was history.

    And what about Ed's Scottish first Minister designate. Jim Murphy? Didn't win and lost everything including his Westminster seat. Thatcher had several and now Cameron's just screwed Zak. It's very Machiavellian but I suppose that's what makes leaders leaders

    I will be amazed if he doesn't win. Stunned in fact. Mind you I was rubbish yesterday in my prediction Kirsty Williams might not be a shoo in - she was and how! - but at least I was right about Cardiff Central - Labour won by about 800 I think.
    Hasn't Kirsty Williams resigned tonight
    Yes as leader of the Welsh Lib Dems but she romped home in her constituency. Trouble is she is the Lib Dems in the Assembly. They don't need a taxi a moped will do. Feel sorry for her but they are the main casualties of UKIP's rise.
    So it'll have to be Mark Williams, a peer or a councillor/activist then.
    Ouch!
    No don't misunderstand me, it was very apt. Just "ouch" for the Lib Dems in Wales.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Fox- "Shoah"- I think that is something I couldn't even contemplate watching- I'm just not brave enough. I think it is about ten hours long.

    I couldn't get through the opening sequences of Hitchcock's factual documentary on the concentration camps, and that is only a few minutes.

    Aside from reading and writing, the Holocaust should be mandatory for all British school kids, in fact all world children. It is something that we should never forget..

    tyson said:

    I've seen Klimlov's 1980's WW2 masterpiece "Come and See" again recently, perhaps the most nihilistic film ever made.

    I am bracing myself for Son of Saul- I have it to watch it, but have to get through the Act of Killing first which I still cannot bring myself to watch.

    For light reading I am just finishing Robert's autobiography of Napoleon which is superb.

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    "Come and See" really sticks in the memory, as does "Shoah".

    I shall look out for "Son of Saul".
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    tyson said:

    I've seen Klimlov's 1980's WW2 masterpiece "Come and See" again recently, perhaps the most nihilistic film ever made.

    I am bracing myself for Son of Saul- I have it to watch it, but have to get through the Act of Killing first which I still cannot bring myself to watch.

    For light reading I am just finishing Robert's autobiography of Napoleon which is superb.

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    I don't think I've seen 'Come and See'. I liked the Act of Killing and being a documentary made it very powerful. This is not a documentary but might make you see the world differently. It's a long time since I've seen a film like that
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    welshowl said:

    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Sloppy seconds. You have to wait for Reckless to wipe Hamilton off and give them five minutes before they can have another go.
    Jeez that and Louis van Gaal's comment in the same week. I won't sleep for a month now....
    Neil's still got his socks on...
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Friday after an election: a good day to bury bad news ?

    Of course! Haven't we already had one or two U turn... I mean sensible policy decisions today? :D
    You do have to wonder if David Cameron is clearing the decks with the number of recent concessions on the Trade Union Bill, allowing orphaned children in Europe into the UK, the change in Academies to aspiration from compulsion, and new negotiations on the Junior Doctors contracts. I assume he is making way for a thorough cabinet change post the referendum with many on the leave side being promoted into new positions and a whole new direction of travel for the government
    I think it is mostly clearing the decks of other hassles so there can ba a complete focus on the Remain campaign, rather than any reshuffle. These are all areas where no hurry is required.

    I am not sure that the BMA JDC sees it the same way.

    I am convinced that post 23rd June David Cameron will have a major cabinet reshuffle and these are all areas that he may well consider as unnecessary hassle. As for the Doctors, agreement will need to take place next week or Hunt will just introduce them anyway
    If he's sensible Osborne will be moved.
    Absolutely together with Hunt, Nicky Morgan and Justine Greening
    Replace Greening with Rudd and I think that will be about the size of it. I expect Javid to make way for Patel at Business where he has been uninspiring and partially responsible for the muddled government reaction to Port Talbot and the poor Tory performance there yesterday.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Life is Beautiful is not great.

    But the child in the red coat, for that image, Schindler's List is superb. Plus Spielberg has the guts to cast Fiennes, charming, charismatic, handsome as the Commandant. Granted it has it's faults.
    Roger said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    Minimal competition, to be fair...
    This is several divisions better than the likes of 'Schindler's list' or 'Life is Beautiful' or the dozens of others.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Sloppy seconds. You have to wait for Reckless to wipe Hamilton off and give them five minutes before they can have another go.
    Jeez that and Louis van Gaal's comment in the same week. I won't sleep for a month now....
    Neil's still got his socks on...
    Aggghhhhh
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,339
    edited May 2016
    tyson said:

    It reminds me Nick of what you wrote to me once and which I still remember well.

    You said the Tories aren't that bad...... and actually they are mostly in politics for the right reasons or words to that effect.

    I hope you do not mind me divulging the contents of private emails, but it kind of demonstrates what a civilised, balanced sort of chap you are.

    That's very kind of you. I come from a mostly Tory background and don't think my various Tory relatives are/were motivated by ill will - I'd argue that they were perhaps a bit blinkered and unfamiliar with the difficulties that most people have, but no more than that. Obviously that doesn't mean I agree with their views. Nearly all politicians IMO start with reasonably good intentions plus a bit of ego - to a greater or lesser extent it's then eroded by the belief that winning is all or most of that matters.

    In our domestic scene I'd support most Labour leaders, but I personally like Corbyn better - he's retained the innocent, honest outlook that I noticed when I first met him decades ago: he thinks people should say what they believe and have a civilised discussion about it. I like Letwin for the same reason - I've never heard Letwin attack an opponent personally or say something that he didn't seem to think was true. It's rare and precious, and politics needs people like that in addition to the sharp-eyed winners.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    tyson said:

    ...the Holocaust should be mandatory for all British school kids...

    It is, isn't it?

    Thanks to that pillar of rectitude, Greville Janner...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tyson said:

    Fox- "Shoah"- I think that is something I couldn't even contemplate watching- I'm just not brave enough. I think it is about ten hours long.

    I couldn't get through the opening sequences of Hitchcock's factual documentary on the concentration camps, and that is only a few minutes.

    Aside from reading and writing, the Holocaust should be mandatory for all British school kids, in fact all world children. It is something that we should never forget..

    tyson said:

    I've seen Klimlov's 1980's WW2 masterpiece "Come and See" again recently, perhaps the most nihilistic film ever made.

    I am bracing myself for Son of Saul- I have it to watch it, but have to get through the Act of Killing first which I still cannot bring myself to watch.

    For light reading I am just finishing Robert's autobiography of Napoleon which is superb.

    Roger said:

    FPT. If anyone can bear it Oscar winning Hungarian film 'Son of Saul'. It's brilliant. The best concentration camp film ever made.

    "Come and See" really sticks in the memory, as does "Shoah".

    I shall look out for "Son of Saul".
    I see it is on at the Phoenix theatre in Leicester this weekend, so will try to get to see Son of Saul.

    Shoah is hard work, but the relentlessness, and repetitiveness of the first hand accounts is part of its power.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    welshowl said:

    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    And with Reckless both parachuted into Wales. We deserve better
    Bit sordid feeling innit?
    Sloppy seconds. You have to wait for Reckless to wipe Hamilton off and give them five minutes before they can have another go.
    Jeez that and Louis van Gaal's comment in the same week. I won't sleep for a month now....
    Neil's still got his socks on...
    Aggghhhhh
    Take the bow tie off, Neil. TAKE THE BOW TIE O....oh, too late. You'll have to come back in ten minutes...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Viceroy said:
    It survived 8 years of Livingstone and 8 years of Boris. Sadiq will be easy-peasy after that.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,312
    Yorkcity said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    AndyJS said:
    I feel very sorry for him. It seems he was traduced by a vulgarian Australian and his only failing was weakness. That doesn't excuse Cameron's two interventions at PMQs
    I was mostly happy with Zac's campaign, you'll be surprised to hear. It's perfectly fair to question Khan's links. He has some very strange and suspicious friends and assistants. And then there's "Uncle Tom"? WTF.

    Where the Goldsmith campaign crossed the line was that Mail article with the image of the 7/7 bus. That was downright offensive (and I'm not easily offended): clearly linking Khan with the 7/7 bombs because he's a Muslim with associations. Very ugly and unfair.

    But a candidate for mayor doesn't get to choose how the Mail runs an article.

    Agreed - the attempt by The 'rogers' et al in the Labour party to scream rrraaaccciiisssmmm every time one of their ethnic candidates is tested is extremely unhealthy and one of several reasons why the 'race ' issue is such a continuing problem. Ironically it is damaging them overall far more than their opponents.
    Zac probably gave Sadiq an additional 2%. Ironically, I would not have put Zac in the racist camp myself. Even his sister didn't seem very pleased today - after the event.
    Nor me Zac could not do the attack dog, his heart was not in it.
    Cameron does a better job at PMQ`S
    Don't Unseat Jeremy Corbyn Association!
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    For somebody running a London election campaign. that *may* be thought to be a disadvantage...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    tyson said:

    Fox- "Shoah"- I think that is something I couldn't even contemplate watching- I'm just not brave enough. I think it is about ten hours long.

    I couldn't get through the opening sequences of Hitchcock's factual documentary on the concentration camps, and that is only a few minutes.

    Aside from reading and writing, the Holocaust should be mandatory for all British school kids, in fact all world children. It is something that we should never forget..

    It already is Tyson, over and above the National Curriculum requirements which academies and private schools are not bound by anyway.

    Mind you I think most people who are not, to quote Charles Grey's dismissal of David Irving, perversely and wilfully blind to what has happened would want it taught anyway for that very reason you give and more importantly to make sure it never happens again. It's why I gave up huge amounts of free time and my half term organising and leading a trip to Poland so that a group from my school could visit Auschwitz.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    For somebody running a London election campaign. that *may* be thought to be a disadvantage...
    Something about hindsight? :D
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    I wouldn't go that far, he got Boris elected twice, in 2008 he was the underdog as well. I just don't think Crosby understands identity politics very well, if you're going to attack a minority candidate those attacks have to be done by a minority person of the same background.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2016

    Yorkcity said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    AndyJS said:
    I feel very sorry for him. It seems he was traduced by a vulgarian Australian and his only failing was weakness. That doesn't excuse Cameron's two interventions at PMQs
    I was mostly happy with Zac's campaign, you'll be surprised to hear. It's perfectly fair to question Khan's links. He has some very strange and suspicious friends and assistants. And then there's "Uncle Tom"? WTF.

    Where the Goldsmith campaign crossed the line was that Mail article with the image of the 7/7 bus. That was downright offensive (and I'm not easily offended): clearly linking Khan with the 7/7 bombs because he's a Muslim with associations. Very ugly and unfair.

    But a candidate for mayor doesn't get to choose how the Mail runs an article.

    Agreed - the attempt by The 'rogers' et al in the Labour party to scream rrraaaccciiisssmmm every time one of their ethnic candidates is tested is extremely unhealthy and one of several reasons why the 'race ' issue is such a continuing problem. Ironically it is damaging them overall far more than their opponents.
    Zac probably gave Sadiq an additional 2%. Ironically, I would not have put Zac in the racist camp myself. Even his sister didn't seem very pleased today - after the event.
    Nor me Zac could not do the attack dog, his heart was not in it.
    Cameron does a better job at PMQ`S
    Don't Unseat Jeremy Corbyn Association!
    The Tories had a lucky escape in Havering & Redbridge. Maybe Ken cost Labour the seat.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    I wouldn't go that far, he got Boris elected twice, in 2008 he was the underdog as well. I just don't think Crosby understands identity politics very well, if you're going to attack a minority candidate those attacks have to be done by a minority person of the same background.
    So he should have gone after non-dom tax avoiders? :p:D
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Last night the BBC were saying Labour were up by 3 or 4 points compared to last year but now they're projecting Labour on 31% which is the same as last year. Not sure what caused the change.

    Projections based on last night's national voteshare for 2020 election

    BBC Tories 301, Lab 253, SNP 53, LD 19, UKIP 1

    Sky Tories 280, Lab 265, SNP 56, LD 25, UKIP 1
    Tory minority government supported by Nicola?
    The SNP won't support the Tories ever, especially as they are now their main opponents, Tory minority government backed by LDs, UKIP and DUP more likely
    I don't think the LibDems would back the Tories again - not for another generation.
    They would not go into Coalition with them no but if they were the largest party they may not vote down a Tory government in a confidence vote either
    I suspect they would take any opportunity to distance themselves from the Tories.
    As I said they are not going into Coalition but if the Tories have almost 50 more MPs than Labour they are not going to put Labour and the SNP in either
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    For somebody running a London election campaign. that *may* be thought to be a disadvantage...
    Something about hindsight? :D
    I had a bet on Khan winning. I may have mentioned that slightly.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    For somebody running a London election campaign. that *may* be thought to be a disadvantage...
    Something about hindsight? :D
    I had a bet on Khan winning. I may have mentioned that slightly.
    :smiley:
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,312
    AndyJS said:

    Yorkcity said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    AndyJS said:
    I feel very sorry for him. It seems he was traduced by a vulgarian Australian and his only failing was weakness. That doesn't excuse Cameron's two interventions at PMQs
    I was mostly happy with Zac's campaign, you'll be surprised to hear. It's perfectly fair to question Khan's links. He has some very strange and suspicious friends and assistants. And then there's "Uncle Tom"? WTF.

    Where the Goldsmith campaign crossed the line was that Mail article with the image of the 7/7 bus. That was downright offensive (and I'm not easily offended): clearly linking Khan with the 7/7 bombs because he's a Muslim with associations. Very ugly and unfair.

    But a candidate for mayor doesn't get to choose how the Mail runs an article.

    Agreed - the attempt by The 'rogers' et al in the Labour party to scream rrraaaccciiisssmmm every time one of their ethnic candidates is tested is extremely unhealthy and one of several reasons why the 'race ' issue is such a continuing problem. Ironically it is damaging them overall far more than their opponents.
    Zac probably gave Sadiq an additional 2%. Ironically, I would not have put Zac in the racist camp myself. Even his sister didn't seem very pleased today - after the event.
    Nor me Zac could not do the attack dog, his heart was not in it.
    Cameron does a better job at PMQ`S
    Don't Unseat Jeremy Corbyn Association!
    The Tories had a lucky escape in Havering & Redbridge. Maybe Ken cost Labour the seat.
    Yes it was very close, maybe I should have voted yesterday :)
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    Blame the electorate. Its not as if he was an unknown candidate and he was elected under the rules.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2016
    Maybe now is a good time to bet on Ruth Davidson replacing Nicola Sturgeon as First Minister sometime.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,794

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    For somebody running a London election campaign. that *may* be thought to be a disadvantage...
    Something about hindsight? :D
    I had a bet on Khan winning. I may have mentioned that slightly.
    :smiley:
    :D:D
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Re Crosby

    Paul Waugh
    @benatipsosmori but he says he had nothing to do with this campaign, it was Fullbrook not him
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Lynton Crosby understands Middle England but not London.

    I wouldn't go that far, he got Boris elected twice, in 2008 he was the underdog as well. I just don't think Crosby understands identity politics very well, if you're going to attack a minority candidate those attacks have to be done by a minority person of the same background.
    It wasn't the attacks that lost it. Zac was a rubbish candidate from the start. Old Etonian eco-warrior with a massive pile of dosh, and he was meant to appeal to a wide range of Londoners?

    Here's a free clue for Crosby. Next time try and find someone who is a least in the same ballpark as the electorate, if the Tory Party has anyone like that.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    Blame the electorate. Its not as if he was an unknown candidate and he was elected under the rules.
    Bit difficult when he was on the list and not elected in a constituency
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    Mods, if you want to delete my reply too I've no objection.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780

    The UKIP Welsh AMs are

    Caroline Jones (South West Wales)
    Nathan Gill MEP (North Wales)
    Michelle Brown (North Wales)
    Mark Reckless (South Waled East)
    David Rowlands (South Waled East)
    Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)
    Gareth Bennett (South West Central)


    AndyJS said:

    Mark Reckless got elected as well as Neil Hamilton? I missed that.

    Neil Hamilton? Back in office? Sorry, but this just makes me feel sick.
    I confess I don't actually know what it is he did, back in the day, to gain his reputation. When I see the name I think sleaze, but I have no details on it. Presumably it was a long time ago so I guess it comes down yo was it so bad he should never hold public office .again or is he just a person with unpleasant views. Either way, plenty of people who fit both have been elected sadly.
  • Options
    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    Rod Crosby, Mike Smithson has told you on several occasions, you are not do discuss the holocaust, please adhere to the rules.
This discussion has been closed.