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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
    Perhaps you can explain to us all pre PCCs
    The old PAs were comprised of (very well remunerated) councillors. The composition of these was determined by an arcane formula and appointments made by the relevant group whips across the councils in the police area. The members of the Authority never (in my experience) reported back to Council, never mind to the public. Once in a blue moon, they might report to their Group.

    There was no means of accountability and no means of deselecting them other than through the Whips' patronage or the standard processes of selection and election. Given that often even party members wouldn't know that a councillor was on the PA, never mind how good a job they were doing there, such processes were meaningless. On top of which, even if an Authority was doing a good job, because it was created by formula across the whole county/area, it could easily be reformed due to electoral changes based on wholly different issues.
    Thank you and well put, both you and plato make good arguments. I guess my antipathy stems from political parties being involved, it has to compromise people and encourage others to vote on tribal lines.
    I think that's the point, to some extent. Priorities in policing are inherently political.

    There's at least one good Carswell article explaining the motivation for this very well.
    Douglas is PRO PCCs and as usual makes his case well. I'm just wary of people instinctively voting for "the labour woman" or "the ukip bloke".

    The reason I endorsed Bolton is he's ex police and army and having met him is a good man, not because he's Ukip. I couldn't be sure that applies to everybody.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
  • Options

    Are all pensioners placed by polling companies in the "E" category of non working?

    Bounce this one up. Anyone have an answer?
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    edited May 2016
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927

    What a berk.

    'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'

    http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la

    He may be correct.

    The caring pacifist Left can be pretty violent.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
    Get them to vote Ruth first, and then they'll find they are voting Tory and the whole concept won't seem toxic next time round.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    What a berk.

    'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'

    http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la

    Farage pointed out on Daily Politics that the £15,000 per day example was for policing a UKIP event not for his personal protection. Farage says the UK state will not pay for him to be protected despite threats against him and so he has personal protection paid for by privately raised UKIP funds, an undisclosed amount.

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    @richardtyndall

    Well actually it means reducing the size of the state, specifically the number of politicians, their title and responsibilities are up for debate. I was with Mark Reckless when he spoke of policing in the 19th century, policing by consent, he really is an interesting man.

    On reflection and having read what Herdson and Plato say, I'm not entirely anti PCC I'm anti political affiliation.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited May 2016

    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
    Get them to vote Ruth first, and then they'll find they are voting Tory and the whole concept won't seem toxic next time round.
    It could work out that way, but I don't think it's necessarily automatic. I mean, many Londoners who voted Boris still evidently think voting Tory is "toxic" if Boris isn't on the ticket.

    But that's why I'm asking whether the Scottish Tories' success is a Boris-style personal vote for Davidson, or whether it's a fundamental swing to the Tories. It's hard to tell from this side of the border, and the mainstream media's coverage of Scottish politics remains as poor as ever.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sean_F said:

    What a berk.

    'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'

    http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la

    He may be correct.

    The caring pacifist Left can be pretty violent.
    Having run the gauntlet of lovely protestors he might be right
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    The police forces already differ from each other on many areas in response to local priorities - be it illegal raves, drugs, ASB, speed cameras or whatever. Local citizens need a democratic route to have their say. What's needed in Peckham is totally different to Eastbourne.
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,902

    Republican Attitudes on Climate Change Thaw:
    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601354/republican-attitudes-on-climate-change-thaw/#/set/id/601376/
    "This new willingness to recognize reality stems partly from the fact that a strong majority of American voters view climate change deniers as flat-earthers. ...it’s also driven by the fact that many clean energy jobs are located in Republican congressional districts."

    I find it quite bizarre that the American Right allowed itself to be painted into this idealogical anti-science corner in the first place. Any sign that they're moving towards an acceptance of reality has got to be a good one!
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    The police forces already differ from each other on many areas in response to local priorities - be it illegal raves, drugs, ASB, speed cameras or whatever. Local citizens need a democratic route to have their say. What's needed in Peckham is totally different to Eastbourne.
    So in an area full of druggies, they vote in a candidate who advocates turning a blind eye. People power, I suppose.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888

    Will the Conservative name and logo appear on the voting slip against the names of their candidates?
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.

    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    Are they real voters or just spads, or councillors etc.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:




    He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.

    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

    Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.

    You said he lacked courage and did not challenge the established views in his community, that's all. The vote for gay marriage does not suggest that is right; neither does his outreach to London's Jewish community. I do agree he has left many hostages to fortune though.

    Outreach to the Jewish community is fine and I am happy to praise him for that.

    But that is very specifically not taking the fight to the extremists in the Muslim community, is it?

    What would be impressive is if he were to go round and speak at mosques, at community events to Muslims and tell them that prejudice against Jews is wrong. It's not the Jews who are the problem here: it's those within the Muslim community (not all, obviously) who are prejudiced, who talk about Hitler and praise the Holocaust and the rest. And that needs calling out: unequivocally and repeatedly and not just in the press or to Jews but to those doing it.

    I agree. It would be nice to see any politician doing it, to be honest.
    Especially someone who says he is the man to take the fight to the extremists.

    So has he done this? Anti-semitism has not just flared up in the last week. Will he do so?

    Dunno: all I have to go on is his past behaviour. It doesn't suggest someone at all concerned about these problems, except in so far as they might affect his chances of election.

    Maybe I'm being cynical.

    If he's elected, let's see what his record on this question is.

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    Sean_F said:

    What a berk.

    'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'

    http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la

    He may be correct.

    The caring pacifist Left can be pretty violent.
    He should maybe rethink his security supplier if they missed the great loosened wheel nuts assassination attempt of 2015.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    I haven't seem much in the way of information about the candidates standing for PCC. For all I know, there might be a mix of fruitcakes, nutters, anti-semites, and paedophiles. The political parties seem to be reluctant to inform the voters. The whole process is a case of pin the rosette on the donkey.
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    What's needed in Peckham is totally different to Eastbourne.
    Yes but the Sussex Chief Constable will know that. The modern mania for watchdogs, Tsars and OfThis OfThat is too much IMHO
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2016
    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Danny565 said:

    It could work out that way, but I don't think it's necessarily automatic. I mean, many Londoners who voted Boris still evidently think voting Tory is "toxic" if Boris isn't on the ticket.

    But that's why I'm asking whether the Scottish Tories' success is a Boris-style personal vote for Davidson, or whether it's a fundamental swing to the Tories. It's hard to tell from this side of the border, and the mainstream media's coverage of Scottish politics remains as poor as ever.

    The biggest cheer of the night at the last leaders' debate was for a Lib Dem!

    Nicola is not as Universally popular as she likes to believe
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tompeck: Today, the Labour press office is mainly fielding calls on Hamas. Last week it was Hitler, so that's progress.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

    Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? Well worth it. He answers your question. The post can be found here - http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/labours-impoverished-expectations.html.

    His support for gay marriage is welcome but irrelevant given all the other things he has said and done. You would not excuse someone who associated with Nazis just because they voted for gay marriage. Why do so in this case?

    I have been willing to praise Khan where praise is due e.g. over gay marriage and his recent statements on anti-Semitism. But I judge in the end on the totality of his actions. And my judgment is that I don't think he will be willing to do what it takes to take the fight to the extremists. I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.

    judge in the end on the totality of his actions

    This doesn't seem to be getting much attention, and IMHO it is very important.

    If Mr Khan wins, he has quite a lot to prove. The opportunities are huge.

    But if it turns out he was only offering campaigning slogans, then with no ill intent he'll make the problems somewhat worse.

    Exactly so. "For evil to triumph it is enough for good men to do nothing."

    I'm afraid that far too many good men in the Muslim community have done nothing to challenge the evil narrative which has taken hold amongst too many of them.

    I feel as if I'm speaking to myself on this. But I find it very important. The spread of a fascist illiberal violent ideology in this country fills me with horror. It affects me and, crucially, my children. And it is painful to see people in positions where they could do some good do nothing or, through malevolence or naivety or fear, permit it to spread.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dandygate claims another victim...
    A FORMER MEP has quit the SNP in protest after Nicola Sturgeon "endorsed" The Scottish Sun newspaper days after the Hillsborough inquest verdicts.
    http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14467674.Former_MEP_quits_SNP_over_Sturgeon_s__endorsement__of_The_Sun/
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    BBC story about corruption in Germany.

    Construction at the [Berlin] airport, south of Schoenefeld, began in 2006 but repeated delays have pushed the opening date well beyond the original 2011 deadline.

    Airport officials had hoped to open the airport in 2017, however latest indications suggest 2019 is a more likely date.

    A former chief planner on the site, Dieter Faulenbach da Costa, told Berliner Morgenpost last week he doubted the airport would ever open.

    Berlin Brandenburg airport is co-owned by the city of Berlin and the state of Brandenburg, as well as the German government.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,042

    Republican Attitudes on Climate Change Thaw:
    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601354/republican-attitudes-on-climate-change-thaw/#/set/id/601376/
    "This new willingness to recognize reality stems partly from the fact that a strong majority of American voters view climate change deniers as flat-earthers. ...it’s also driven by the fact that many clean energy jobs are located in Republican congressional districts."

    I find it quite bizarre that the American Right allowed itself to be painted into this idealogical anti-science corner in the first place. Any sign that they're moving towards an acceptance of reality has got to be a good one!
    The American right allied themselves with big oil and big coal. They may be beginning to pull back from that cul-de-sac.

    Anyway, a reality check - let's touch base with that intellectual and scientific heavyweight, Sarah Palin on global warming...

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/apr/15/sarah-palin-explains-why-we-should-question-climate-change-video
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Good news! The Empire has been claiming mountains [for charity]:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36190603
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. S, idiots aren't always wrong.

    Letting Palin dictate one's opinion is foolish, whether mindlessly agreeing or mindlessly disagreeing.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
    Or that the Ashcroft polls show the Lib Dems will hold on in most of the LD/Con marginals...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Miss Cyclefree, you're not speaking just for yourself (or to yourself) on this. It's a serious problem.

    Mr. P, they probably long for the days when it was 'just' the IRA.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    edited May 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
    Get them to vote Ruth first, and then they'll find they are voting Tory and the whole concept won't seem toxic next time round.
    It could work out that way, but I don't think it's necessarily automatic. I mean, many Londoners who voted Boris still evidently think voting Tory is "toxic" if Boris isn't on the ticket.

    But that's why I'm asking whether the Scottish Tories' success is a Boris-style personal vote for Davidson, or whether it's a fundamental swing to the Tories. It's hard to tell from this side of the border, and the mainstream media's coverage of Scottish politics remains as poor as ever.
    I think any SCon success has yet to be confirmed (remember it's the same Yoon journos pumping up Davidson that were fluffing for Darling & Murphy), and it's debatable if a couple of points on their last best performance could be seen as a breakthrough. In any case it will be down to the Ruth factor and Slab coming down with the same electoral STD that the SCons have had for the last 30 years, rather than any great sea change in attitudes to Tories.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @skysarahjane: Just watching Keith Vaz in Commons today in his @LCFC scarf...he was at King Power Stadium last night partying. Is he the new John Terry?
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    From Monday just 2 weeks and two days before purdah descends. We have had more than 9 weeks of a blitz of Govt propaganda so far.
  • Options
    runnymede said:

    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
    Or that the Ashcroft polls show the Lib Dems will hold on in most of the LD/Con marginals...
    Well all the LD MPs thought they walked on water with massive personal votes from the voters that adored them.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    dr_spyn said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    I haven't seem much in the way of information about the candidates standing for PCC. For all I know, there might be a mix of fruitcakes, nutters, anti-semites, and paedophiles. The political parties seem to be reluctant to inform the voters. The whole process is a case of pin the rosette on the donkey.
    Spoil your ballot. It's the only way to express dissatisfaction with the whole system of PCCs.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    rather than any great sea change in attitudes to Tories.

    Or a change in attitude to the SNP.

    Canvassers report people referring to Nicola as "that woman", an epithet that used to be reserved in Scotland for Mrs Thatcher
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
    It's going a bit Trump isn't it? :wink:
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Am told a statement from Labour is coming re the whole Hamas thang.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited May 2016

    Sean_F said:

    What a berk.

    'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'

    http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la

    He may be correct.

    The caring pacifist Left can be pretty violent.
    He should maybe rethink his security supplier if they missed the great loosened wheel nuts assassination attempt of 2015.
    Just note that the amount is £15,000 per event and is for UKIP events as a whole. It is not £15,000 every day. Tony Blair's is estimated at £16,000 per week - every week. (In 2009 it was estimated at £6,000,000 a year.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Amusing to see people concluding that the referendum polls are right because the GE polls were wrong!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    runnymede said:

    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
    Or that the Ashcroft polls show the Lib Dems will hold on in most of the LD/Con marginals...
    Well all the LD MPs thought they walked on water with massive personal votes from the voters that adored them.
    And the PB commentariat agreed
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Workers of the world unite.... you'll be beaten by your granny.
    So the more work you do or have done or are trying to do, the more likely you are to vote LEAVE. A Moral there somewhere.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited May 2016

    Where have I bigged up Lord Mandelson?

    I was wondering who on earth @blackburn63 thinks you'd be trying to ingratiate yourself with.
    I've learned Blackburn isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier. He came up with a real humdinger this morning.
    Which was?

    Come on TSE I've got you cornered now, let's see what you've got.
    This morning you told someone who works for a bookie that he "lack[ed] even a basic understanding of punting"
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    Order, Order down again?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Alistair said:
    According to Rasmussan yesterday - he's on 73% support with GOP voters, Hillary on 77% with Dems nationally.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Order, Order down again?

    Robert's started working for Guido today.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/727525196798779392

    These days I just can't work out what is a spoof and what isn't...this is going to put the Daily Mash out of business.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Jeremy Corbyn has delivered a "painful hit" on "the Zionist enemy" say Hamas. Yet another Blairite smear.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Britain First has done another one of their invasions.

    Britain First has ‘invaded’ a halal slaughterhouse, accusing both workers and customers of serving Satan and funding terrorism.

    In a video of the confrontation posted to Facebook, deputy leader Jayda Fransen can be seen launching a venomous tirade against those inside.

    She screams: “Don’t you realise you’re in Great Britain? In Britain, why do we have halal slaughterhouses?

    “Why are you offering these animal up to Allah, a fake god, Satan. Do any of you have any morals?”

    Fransen then turns her attention to customers queuing for meat.

    She adds: “Look at all these people here buying halal-slaughtered meat. You are in Great Britain.

    “Halal slaughter is barbaric. How can you live with yourselves? This is a Christian country and the Bible says no Christian should eat meat offered to a false god.

    “My grandfather fought for this country and he didn’t do that for you people to turn it into little Pakistan by you people carrying out these barbaric practices for a disgusting, vile ideology.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/britain-first-invade-halal-slaughterhouse_uk_572780ede4b0a1e971cb9e89?
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,902
    dr_spyn said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    I haven't seem much in the way of information about the candidates standing for PCC. For all I know, there might be a mix of fruitcakes, nutters, anti-semites, and paedophiles. The political parties seem to be reluctant to inform the voters. The whole process is a case of pin the rosette on the donkey.
    Here in the West Midlands, we have pretty uninspiring Labour, Conservative and UKIP candidates plus an independent who, after a bit of googling, does indeed appear to be an anti-Semitic loon. Trouble is, the loon might even get the job, given that most people won't do any research and will simply view him as the non-political candidate for what they perceive as a pointless post.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MarkKleinmanSky: Exclusive: Hedge fund tycoon and Michael Gove ally Paul Marshall to donate six-figure sum to pro-Brexit campaign. https://t.co/LgLPdzSf1p
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Democratic EU at its best I see....

    EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-refuse-refugee-quota/
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    dr_spyn said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.

    How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
    I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
    PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
    "What we really need is more politicians"

    said no-one ever...
    What we really need is more unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Said everyone.
    But seriously, why would we want a non-expert greasy pole climber to be in charge of certain aspects of policing? It's bizarre

    There are already various watchdogs such as the IPCC, plus the elected government of the day makes the laws the police uphold, and runs police policy generally. I really don't think that chief constables are too restrained by Westminster not to be able to act locally, surely this is part of their professional remit and I have no reason to believe that they are not highly capable already. Why do they need somebody else with their own agenda interfering?

    Equally the national direction of police policy set by the Home Office should in any case NOT allow too much local freedom - a postcode lottery on the law? No thanks.

    Anyway don't listen to me - the derisory turnouts for these elections speak volumes about what people think of these elections and the people thereby elected - not a fat lot.
    I haven't seem much in the way of information about the candidates standing for PCC. For all I know, there might be a mix of fruitcakes, nutters, anti-semites, and paedophiles. The political parties seem to be reluctant to inform the voters. The whole process is a case of pin the rosette on the donkey.
    Spoil your ballot. It's the only way to express dissatisfaction with the whole system of PCCs.
    There is a website with details. There's a definite fruitcake in our area.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_P said:

    The fact that this is even possible, just illustrates how badly SLAB are doing. Fightback? What fightback? More the slow death of SLAB.

    Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon

    Some are even predicting a few Tory constituency wins. Or SNP losses if you prefer.
    One possible gain would be a Labour loss - Dumfriesshire - though it's a three-way fight.
    Some evidence of a split vote there (my m voted Labour my dad voted SNP) which would allow Mundell Jr to come through the middle. As I am being against Con there I would be unhappy in extreme.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Wow!

    @bobfrombrockley: An actual Labour candidate folks https://t.co/LRWvh7Jofv
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252

    Britain First has done another one of their invasions.

    Britain First has ‘invaded’ a halal slaughterhouse, accusing both workers and customers of serving Satan and funding terrorism.

    In a video of the confrontation posted to Facebook, deputy leader Jayda Fransen can be seen launching a venomous tirade against those inside.

    She screams: “Don’t you realise you’re in Great Britain? In Britain, why do we have halal slaughterhouses?

    “Why are you offering these animal up to Allah, a fake god, Satan. Do any of you have any morals?”

    Fransen then turns her attention to customers queuing for meat.

    She adds: “Look at all these people here buying halal-slaughtered meat. You are in Great Britain.

    “Halal slaughter is barbaric. How can you live with yourselves? This is a Christian country and the Bible says no Christian should eat meat offered to a false god.

    “My grandfather fought for this country and he didn’t do that for you people to turn it into little Pakistan by you people carrying out these barbaric practices for a disgusting, vile ideology.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/britain-first-invade-halal-slaughterhouse_uk_572780ede4b0a1e971cb9e89?

    Sssh, don't anyone tell Jayda about Kosher slaughterhouse, her head might explode.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    http://pagesix.com/2016/05/02/top-gear-host-accused-of-exposing-himself-to-co-workers

    Warning: Brain bleach needed. A part of Chris Evans' anatomy is compared to "a baby minnow flopping around on a bed of leaves."
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Where have I bigged up Lord Mandelson?

    I was wondering who on earth @blackburn63 thinks you'd be trying to ingratiate yourself with.
    I've learned Blackburn isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier. He came up with a real humdinger this morning.
    Which was?

    Come on TSE I've got you cornered now, let's see what you've got.
    This morning you told someone who works for a bookie that he "lack[ed] even a basic understanding of punting"
    Well I'm flabberghasted that somebody who works for a bookie wrote what they did.;
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Sssh, don't anyone tell Jayda about Kosher slaughterhouse, her head might explode.
    I've heard a story, that Britain First, visited The Village in Manchester recently, to try set up the Gay wing of Britain First, to show the gays they were on their side. Apparently it did not go well, they decided to visit AXM bar, they left after five mins, because of the gayness on display, and the mocking and derision they received.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
    The entire Conservative Holyrood campaign is based on pictures of Ruth Davidson on things, never mentioning the word Conservative and Banging on and on and on about the referendum.
  • Options

    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    From ICM (Remain/Leave)

    Students: 69/31
    Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
    Part Time Work: 56/44
    Full Time Work: 53/47
    Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
    Homemakers : 45/55
    State Pensioners: 42/58
    Private Pensioners: 35/65


    Fascinating
    That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
    It's encouraging, for sure.
    I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.

    The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
    You mean more like the Obama stardust. I expect some of us will be laughing.
    Seriously, I do wonder whether REMAIN has peaked far too early and the scare stories will face the law of diminishing returns.
    I thought the vast expertise of the main REMAINer commentators on here was that REMAIN had done a brilliant job and the LEAVE campaign had made all the mistakes and had slumped to 20 points behind? Are you seriously telling me that is the wrong conclusion? Come now do not jest with this poor soul.

    Next you will be telling me that the 2010 Lib Dems did not win the GE for Ed Miliband. I can only take so many shocks to my beliefs.
    It's going a bit Trump isn't it? :wink:
    Well one really does not know who to trust ... from the REMAIN camp.
    winkythingy
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519



    Terrible idea. That's like electing judges or the CPS - law and order operations can't be political/vote grabbing.

    I totally disagree, I think vote grabbing is exacly what policing needs. The client of the police at the moment is HMG. It should be the people. If people want local oiks sorting out and a zero tolerance to graffiti, as opposed to speed traps and people being arrested for offensive tweeting that's what they should have. We will realise sooner or later that people usually know best.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2016

    ........Owen Jones and Hamas....

    These days I just can't work out what is a spoof and what isn't...this is going to put the Daily Mash out of business.

    It is a typo. It is Hummus that are endorsed by Labour.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Alistair said:

    The entire Conservative Holyrood campaign is based on pictures of Ruth Davidson on things, never mentioning the word Conservative and Banging on and on and on about the referendum.

    The entire SNP Holyrood campaign is based on pictures of Nicola, Banging on and on and on about the referendum.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Unbelievable:

    "Labour will not lose seats in local elections, Jeremy Corbyn says"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/labour-plans-to-gain-seats-in-local-elections-jeremy-corbyn-says
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,360
    Has the AfD peaked? Oddly, the Greens and Liberals seem to be the main beneficiaries if so.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm

    But other pollsters aren't showing them dropping back yet, so too early to say. What is really obvious is the pain of being in government there at the moment - both governing parties well down, all the others up.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563



    Terrible idea. That's like electing judges or the CPS - law and order operations can't be political/vote grabbing.

    I totally disagree, I think vote grabbing is exacly what policing needs. The client of the police at the moment is HMG. It should be the people. If people want local oiks sorting out and a zero tolerance to graffiti, as opposed to speed traps and people being arrested for offensive tweeting that's what they should have. We will realise sooner or later that people usually know best.
    Go to America and see the elections for Judges and State Attorneys elections.

    They do not bode well for justice.

    The CPS should not decide whether to prosecute or not because they have an election coming ditto, judges and sentencing.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    AndyJS said:

    Unbelievable:

    "Labour will not lose seats in local elections, Jeremy Corbyn says"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/labour-plans-to-gain-seats-in-local-elections-jeremy-corbyn-says

    Thats because Corbynism is sweeping the nations ;-)
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536



    Terrible idea. That's like electing judges or the CPS - law and order operations can't be political/vote grabbing.

    I totally disagree, I think vote grabbing is exacly what policing needs. The client of the police at the moment is HMG. It should be the people. If people want local oiks sorting out and a zero tolerance to graffiti, as opposed to speed traps and people being arrested for offensive tweeting that's what they should have. We will realise sooner or later that people usually know best.
    Yes the argument about the police being left alone to do their work in a disinterested, apolitical and efficient manner is hard to take very seriously after the series of scandals we have seen in recent years - featuring corruption, nepotism, incompetence, partisan politicking and outright criminality.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,371
    Eastwood is a Scottish Constituency that I would expect the tories to beat Labour in. That doesn't mean that they will win it of course. The SNP may well come from 3rd. Labour has a majority of 2K but if Ruth's Unionist stich is going to work anywhere it really should be there.

    To be honest I am not expecting Labour to win any constituency seats at all. They will recover some of the damage of that from the Lists though. I think Ruth is being a tad optimistic but we shall see.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Quite

    In a nutshell: https://t.co/BpEY0ITTgM
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Missed quite a few threads. Did we ever get closer to the bottom of the big chunk of BF money put on BREXIT a couple of weeks back?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    AndyJS said:

    Unbelievable:

    "Labour will not lose seats in local elections, Jeremy Corbyn says"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/labour-plans-to-gain-seats-in-local-elections-jeremy-corbyn-says

    Corbyn: “Elections are about taking sides. Labour is on yours.”

    Unless you are Jewish, of course; or believe the history of the holocaust shouldn't just be made up by amateurs on live TV.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Has the AfD peaked? Oddly, the Greens and Liberals seem to be the main beneficiaries if so.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm

    But other pollsters aren't showing them dropping back yet, so too early to say. What is really obvious is the pain of being in government there at the moment - both governing parties well down, all the others up.

    Only if you ignore pollsters like INSA who've just put them on 13.5%.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SCons also sent me one of my most hated type of election leaflets, those 'election news' type leaflets that pretend they aren't from a party apart from the printer's note.

    I wouldn't vote for them on that alone.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Rock legends to play US 'mega-festival'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36193750

    Think of all the pill popping going on this backstage...not LSD, more the ones for heart conditions, arthritis, etc.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Jez we can.
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/727529624796844033

    If ever a devil was born
    without a pair of horn
    It was you, Jeza , it was you.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Eastwood is a Scottish Constituency that I would expect the tories to beat Labour in. That doesn't mean that they will win it of course. The SNP may well come from 3rd. Labour has a majority of 2K but if Ruth's Unionist stich is going to work anywhere it really should be there.

    To be honest I am not expecting Labour to win any constituency seats at all. They will recover some of the damage of that from the Lists though. I think Ruth is being a tad optimistic but we shall see.

    They could keep Dumfriesshire, my bank balance would like it if they did.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Here are some Scottish Tories hiding which party they are representing..

    https://twitter.com/deanforholyrood/status/727483771080073216

    Maybe they should get the Dandy photoshopped in instead
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,371
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Eastwood is a Scottish Constituency that I would expect the tories to beat Labour in. That doesn't mean that they will win it of course. The SNP may well come from 3rd. Labour has a majority of 2K but if Ruth's Unionist stich is going to work anywhere it really should be there.

    To be honest I am not expecting Labour to win any constituency seats at all. They will recover some of the damage of that from the Lists though. I think Ruth is being a tad optimistic but we shall see.

    They could keep Dumfriesshire, my bank balance would like it if they did.
    Keep? Its Labour at the moment and with a somewhat bigger majority than Eastwood. But yes, it is definitely a target for them. They did pretty well there in the 2015 election beating Labour comfortably but were completely outgunned by a massive increase in the SNP vote. If the Tories can consolidate the Unionist vote more effectively this time then they have a chance but it would not surprise me if the SNP take this too.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    edited May 2016

    Sssh, don't anyone tell Jayda about Kosher slaughterhouse, her head might explode.
    I've heard a story, that Britain First, visited The Village in Manchester recently, to try set up the Gay wing of Britain First, to show the gays they were on their side. Apparently it did not go well, they decided to visit AXM bar, they left after five mins, because of the gayness on display, and the mocking and derision they received.
    I sense the Britain First perception of gayness stops at Dick Emery.
    On reflection that would be a good name for an S&M gay stage act.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Order, Order down again?

    Robert's started working for Guido today.
    Arf.

    Poor Robert. I did feel bad for him when the site went down. In my old consulting job I had to manage the company website - hated it, no staging/preview site!
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    Guido indicating the HAC are to investigate antisemitism and Corbyn with Livingstone head the queue. That should be interesting. Popcorn time methinks
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The Fix
    Hillary Clinton says she has not been contacted by the Justice Department for an interview relating to her private email server.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    I asked my boss his thoughts on Brexit today - undecided, very very soft remain I think.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited May 2016
    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
    There's a chance the poor old dears might get confused about which party to vote for.

    https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
    To what extent is the Tory surge linked to Davidson personally?

    I'm wondering whether we should expect the Tory surge to carry over to the next Westminster election in Scotland. If it's about a genuine move back to the Tories (perhaps because unionists who previously voted SNP for their competence in places like the North East, now leaving because independence has become a more realistic prospect), then presumably we should expect gains in Scotland in 2020. If it's more a personal vote for Davidson then presumably it won't carry over much into 2020 since no-one would think she'd be part of a Westminster Tory government.
    My advice to the Scottish Tories would be to break completely with the party in England and Wales, rename and rebrand. They should concentrate on being a national party bent on competence in government, with centrist economic and centre-right security policies. If they gain some Westminster success, they should studiously eschew any formal alliance with the Conservatives and resist any government positions offered, voting with the Conservatives only when it makes sense to from a Scottish, centrist/slightly right point of view and respecting EVEL.

    If they do that, I think they can build up trust with the Scottish electorate and eventually resume their position as a natural party of government/opposition, instead of an afterthought.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    And people complain about my colourful analogies

    https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/727522061711740928
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/727525196798779392

    These days I just can't work out what is a spoof and what isn't...this is going to put the Daily Mash out of business.

    Much like Eurofanatic scare stories. I think Miliband's end of the world if we leave the EU argument achieved peak ridiculousnesss.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    edited May 2016
    Scott_P said:

    Here are some Scottish Tories hiding which party they are representing..

    https://twitter.com/deanforholyrood/status/727483771080073216

    Maybe they should get the Dandy photoshopped in instead

    Touched a nerve much?

    Twitter, the only platform on which 'the Ruth Davidson for 2nd best' party can speak its real name.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519



    Terrible idea. That's like electing judges or the CPS - law and order operations can't be political/vote grabbing.

    I totally disagree, I think vote grabbing is exacly what policing needs. The client of the police at the moment is HMG. It should be the people. If people want local oiks sorting out and a zero tolerance to graffiti, as opposed to speed traps and people being arrested for offensive tweeting that's what they should have. We will realise sooner or later that people usually know best.
    Go to America and see the elections for Judges and State Attorneys elections.

    They do not bode well for justice.

    The CPS should not decide whether to prosecute or not because they have an election coming ditto, judges and sentencing.
    I'm not saying go full America (not dismissing it in this instance either) but in terms of Chief Constables I don't see a drawback.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    @richardtyndall

    Well actually it means reducing the size of the state, specifically the number of politicians, their title and responsibilities are up for debate. I was with Mark Reckless when he spoke of policing in the 19th century, policing by consent, he really is an interesting man.

    On reflection and having read what Herdson and Plato say, I'm not entirely anti PCC I'm anti political affiliation.

    That I can entirely agree with. But then I am even more extreme and think that we should reduce political affiliation in all aspects of Government. I am a long standing advocate of radical reduction in the power of the whips and making every vote at every level of Governance a free vote.

    For many years Parish and town councils used to be almost exclusively party free. It now seems more and more common for party affiliation to be the norm at parish elections. Not a good development.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Eastwood is a Scottish Constituency that I would expect the tories to beat Labour in. That doesn't mean that they will win it of course. The SNP may well come from 3rd. Labour has a majority of 2K but if Ruth's Unionist stich is going to work anywhere it really should be there.

    To be honest I am not expecting Labour to win any constituency seats at all. They will recover some of the damage of that from the Lists though. I think Ruth is being a tad optimistic but we shall see.

    They could keep Dumfriesshire, my bank balance would like it if they did.
    Keep? Its Labour at the moment and with a somewhat bigger majority than Eastwood. But yes, it is definitely a target for them. They did pretty well there in the 2015 election beating Labour comfortably but were completely outgunned by a massive increase in the SNP vote. If the Tories can consolidate the Unionist vote more effectively this time then they have a chance but it would not surprise me if the SNP take this too.
    Apologies, I meant Labour could keep it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314

    And people complain about my colourful analogies

    https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/727522061711740928

    This'll all be over in 6.5 hours.
This discussion has been closed.