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  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.

    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Greeting from a rather cloudy Madeira .. IMHO Boris is a busted flush.. sold his soul to the devil.. brexit...
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    Greeting from a rather cloudy Madeira .. IMHO Boris is a busted flush.. sold his soul to the devil.. brexit...

    Naught but Europhile Propaganda!
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    Danny565 said:
    'On Thursday, are we really going to hand the world's greatest city to a Conservative candidate who can't even proof check the photos featured in an article he's put his name to?'
    Since when did writers proof-check articles? They have subs for that - and Photo Editors for photos.....
    Ah, right.
    Team Zac: 'Yeah, we've put some of the usual Sadiq Bin Laden stuff together, just put Zac's name on the byline. A photo? Oh, just stick up whatever you fancy.'
    In the Brave New Scotland I expect politicians will want to control headlines, photos, the BBC.....in the rest of the UK, however......
    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
    They've tried it but the Beeb like the voters told them to naff off :)
    The voters? You're a sharp one, ain't you.
    Did you forget the referendum result?
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    I really don't see the rank and file Labour supporters voting for Hodge - she's simply far too rich. Doesn't fit their view of the world post Blair.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Pulpstar said:

    There are still some ways to take advantage of Trump (And Clinton)'s superiority:

    Trump-Clinton double @ 2-7 with Hills and Trump to "clinch" the nomination before Cleveland (Which I assume means > 1237 bound delegates) @ 1-2 (Tipped up by Peter_from_Putney earlier) also with Hills.
    I tipped 1.57 with Hills yesterday Pulps :P as Peter rightly credited :)
    No worries, I've amended the tips database to reflect this.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,042

    I hope all PBers have by now decided on the manner in which they will be spoiling their ballot in the PCC elections.

    I plan to give my first preference to Bernie Sanders and second preference to Yanis Varoufakis.

    Are you not giving Priti Patel one ?

    I mean aren't you giving Priti Patel your first preference ?
    I would NEVER put my cross in the Tory box!
    Very wise man!
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    edited May 2016
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.

    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/

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    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Does the Leader of the Opposition ever place a bet on politics?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36192601
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    As per my previous posts- I just don't think women have much of a chance in a well ordered race with men. They have to be either anointed as the leader with no real challenges a la Sturgeon and Clinton or come from nowhere a la Thatcher.

    tyson said:

    I do think there is a more than a sniff of misogyny to politics.

    The Margaret Hodge story today is interesting. The only way women appear to have any hope of entering a leadership contest is as a stalking horse it seems to me. A certain Thatcher did the same some forty years or so ago.

    The odds on Theresa May as Next PM remain astonishingly long. You can even still get 10/1 from Boyle Sports. She should be favourite IMO.

    There were two female candidates in the last Labour election. One should have been a genuine contender.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    dr_spyn said:
    Quick, more pints, more Bollywood, more 'soccer'..
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    On a betting tip- I've just seen Federer as close to 40's on betfair for the French. It seems ludicrously long for someone who is likely to enter the tournament as 2nd seed, and is clearly saving himself for the slams.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    tyson said:

    As per my previous posts- I just don't think women have much of a chance in a well ordered race with men. They have to be either anointed as the leader with no real challenges a la Sturgeon and Clinton or come from nowhere a la Thatcher.

    Even after Merkel became leader of the CDU she stood aside for Edmund Stoiber to run as the Chancellor-candidate for the CDU/CSU in the following general election. Only after he lost did she stake her claim.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited May 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    There are still some ways to take advantage of Trump (And Clinton)'s superiority:

    Trump-Clinton double @ 2-7 with Hills and Trump to "clinch" the nomination before Cleveland (Which I assume means > 1237 bound delegates) @ 1-2 (Tipped up by Peter_from_Putney earlier) also with Hills.
    I tipped 1.57 with Hills yesterday Pulps :P as Peter rightly credited :)
    No worries, I've amended the tips database to reflect this.
    You can toast me with the bottle of cava you buy with the 1.5 with PaddyPower from last week...
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/



    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Danny565 said:
    'On Thursday, are we really going to hand the world's greatest city to a Conservative candidate who can't even proof check the photos featured in an article he's put his name to?'
    Since when did writers proof-check articles? They have subs for that - and Photo Editors for photos.....
    Ah, right.
    Team Zac: 'Yeah, we've put some of the usual Sadiq Bin Laden stuff together, just put Zac's name on the byline. A photo? Oh, just stick up whatever you fancy.'
    In the Brave New Scotland I expect politicians will want to control headlines, photos, the BBC.....in the rest of the UK, however......
    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1352345-resistance-is-futile-scottish-sun-tells-readers-to-back-snp-again/
    Endorsements in the United Kingdom general election, 2015.

    http://tinyurl.com/jh9bcl4
    Scottish Newspaper Endorsements:

    SNP: 3
    Lab: 1
    Con: 1
    National UK Newspaper Endorsements incl. Sundays:

    Cons: 9
    Lab: 6
    UKIP: 2
    LDs: 1
    SNP: 0

    Given the Scottish Newspapers outsell the UK ones by orders of magnitude (the Scottish Sun is four times the total sales of the London titles), I think the Scottish Paper endorsement figures a tad more relevant - unless one is playing the 'victim/othering game'

    How does it feel to have the London Telegraph outsell the NATonal by over a third?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    dr_spyn said:
    Quick, more pints, more Bollywood, more 'soccer'..
    Makes you wonder who Dixie has been canvassing? Zac and his family ?
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I think if Gove had a vagina- he's hardly pleasing to the eye as my mum would say- (s)he would not be leading the polls at ConHome.

    tyson said:

    As per my previous posts- I just don't think women have much of a chance in a well ordered race with men. They have to be either anointed as the leader with no real challenges a la Sturgeon and Clinton or come from nowhere a la Thatcher.

    Even after Merkel became leader of the CDU she stood aside for Edmund Stoiber to run as the Chancellor-candidate for the CDU/CSU in the following general election. Only after he lost did she stake her claim.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    tyson said:

    I think if Gove had a vagina- he's hardly pleasing to the eye as my mum would say- (s)he would not be leading the polls at ConHome.

    tyson said:

    As per my previous posts- I just don't think women have much of a chance in a well ordered race with men. They have to be either anointed as the leader with no real challenges a la Sturgeon and Clinton or come from nowhere a la Thatcher.

    Even after Merkel became leader of the CDU she stood aside for Edmund Stoiber to run as the Chancellor-candidate for the CDU/CSU in the following general election. Only after he lost did she stake her claim.
    I think I need lots of mind bleach after reading this post.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited May 2016

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/


    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
    About 12% of where it started....
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252

    Danny565 said:
    'On Thursday, are we really going to hand the world's greatest city to a Conservative candidate who can't even proof check the photos featured in an article he's put his name to?'
    Since when did writers proof-check articles? They have subs for that - and Photo Editors for photos.....
    Ah, right.
    Team Zac: 'Yeah, we've put some of the usual Sadiq Bin Laden stuff together, just put Zac's name on the byline. A photo? Oh, just stick up whatever you fancy.'
    In the Brave New Scotland I expect politicians will want to control headlines, photos, the BBC.....in the rest of the UK, however......
    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1352345-resistance-is-futile-scottish-sun-tells-readers-to-back-snp-again/
    Endorsements in the United Kingdom general election, 2015.

    http://tinyurl.com/jh9bcl4
    Scottish Newspaper Endorsements:

    SNP: 3
    Lab: 1
    Con: 1
    National UK Newspaper Endorsements incl. Sundays:

    Cons: 9
    Lab: 6
    UKIP: 2
    LDs: 1
    SNP: 0

    Given the Scottish Newspapers outsell the UK ones by orders of magnitude (the Scottish Sun is four times the total sales of the London titles), I think the Scottish Paper endorsement figures a tad more relevant - unless one is playing the 'victim/othering game'

    How does it feel to have the London Telegraph outsell the NATonal by over a third?
    You're trying to make a point about the SNP controlling the press and then refer to the virulently Unionist Telegraph outselling the only indy supporting daily in Scotland? Ok..
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    If you're in London a lot their beer guide is pretty good. I've found some decent pubs using it.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    MaxPB said:

    Stephen Crabb at 32 on BF looks good to me, I think he has the right "story" and background to be leader.

    He does but he's one of the most enthusiastic Remainers in the whole cabinet.

    I'm not sure if that will play in his favour.
    He has no personality - the charisma of a wet lettuce leaf. He was also a 'flipper' in the expenses scandal.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252

    dr_spyn said:
    Quick, more pints, more Bollywood, more 'soccer'..
    Makes you wonder who Dixie has been canvassing? Zac and his family ?
    Stuart Truth, Cromwell, Dixie, all part of a great PB tradition.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    Pleasing to see you refer to Real Ale rather than the hipster term "Craft Beer". Much of the latter isn't real anything. But is apparently what is required to wash down some "Street Food".
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/


    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
    About 12% of where it started....
    The Somerset cleric didn't supply that important information. Thanks.
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    Anyone else starting to see the need for a two-state solution? for the UK
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/

    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.

    There's a logical error in the claim that:

    Or put another way, at least 82% of adult Scots DON’T buy any newspapers.

    That would only be the case if the people which did buy papers did so everyday, some do,. but some will buy papers once or twice a week etc so the 'reach' of the papers is far higher than that is stated.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Fenster said:

    FPT..Fenster..Sorry old boy but every word is true..The Exec asked me to stay the course or the film would be dropped...I was a very busy lad in those days and had no time,energy, to pursue idiots in the court...let em stew

    I'm very sorry to hear it.. But I can assure you you'd be very welcome in the Valleys, English or not! Most people round here are very friendly..
    In South Wales we had a great time and everything was fine.

    However in north wales my wife and I walked out of a pub in disgust many years back.

    Mind you, considering we have had similar reactions to being "strangers" in pubs in a part of London (which I can't remember might have been Tooting, certainly between Clapham and Morden), and also (strangely enough as a major tourist area) in a pub near Hay on Wye just a few weeks back it might just be closed community type mentality rather than based on race.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    Pleasing to see you refer to Real Ale rather than the hipster term "Craft Beer". Much of the latter isn't real anything. But is apparently what is required to wash down some "Street Food".
    Street food was eating out of litter bins when I was a kid...
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Floater said:

    Fenster said:

    FPT..Fenster..Sorry old boy but every word is true..The Exec asked me to stay the course or the film would be dropped...I was a very busy lad in those days and had no time,energy, to pursue idiots in the court...let em stew

    I'm very sorry to hear it.. But I can assure you you'd be very welcome in the Valleys, English or not! Most people round here are very friendly..
    In South Wales we had a great time and everything was fine.

    However in north wales my wife and I walked out of a pub in disgust many years back.

    Mind you, considering we have had similar reactions to being "strangers" in pubs in a part of London (which I can't remember might have been Tooting, certainly between Clapham and Morden), and also (strangely enough as a major tourist area) in a pub near Hay on Wye just a few weeks back it might just be closed community type mentality rather than based on race.
    Being treated suspiciously like undercover health inspectors is so welcoming!
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/

    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
    There's a logical error in the claim that:

    Or put another way, at least 82% of adult Scots DON’T buy any newspapers.

    That would only be the case if the people which did buy papers did so everyday, some do,. but some will buy papers once or twice a week etc so the 'reach' of the papers is far higher than that is stated.


    Realistically it should be judged on households. If I get a newspaper, my wife also reads it, my adult kids too if they are at home.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Danny565 said:
    'On Thursday, are we really going to hand the world's greatest city to a Conservative candidate who can't even proof check the photos featured in an article he's put his name to?'
    Since when did writers proof-check articles? They have subs for that - and Photo Editors for photos.....
    Ah, right.
    Team Zac: 'Yeah, we've put some of the usual Sadiq Bin Laden stuff together, just put Zac's name on the byline. A photo? Oh, just stick up whatever you fancy.'
    In the Brave New Scotland I expect politicians will want to control headlines, photos, the BBC.....in the rest of the UK, however......
    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1352345-resistance-is-futile-scottish-sun-tells-readers-to-back-snp-again/
    Endorsements in the United Kingdom general election, 2015.

    http://tinyurl.com/jh9bcl4
    Scottish Newspaper Endorsements:

    SNP: 3
    Lab: 1
    Con: 1
    National UK Newspaper Endorsements incl. Sundays:

    Cons: 9
    Lab: 6
    UKIP: 2
    LDs: 1
    SNP: 0

    Given the Scottish Newspapers outsell the UK ones by orders of magnitude (the Scottish Sun is four times the total sales of the London titles), I think the Scottish Paper endorsement figures a tad more relevant - unless one is playing the 'victim/othering game'

    How does it feel to have the London Telegraph outsell the NATonal by over a third?
    You're trying to make a point about the SNP controlling the press and then refer to the virulently Unionist Telegraph outselling the only indy supporting daily in Scotland? Ok..
    The SNP has more endorsements from the Scottish press than all the other parties added together.....yet the latest entrant, much feted by the Nats is failing (its about half the size of their favourite whipping boy the "Hootsmon", and 7% of the "Daily Retard".)

    Maybe independence is not such a great seller of newspapers?
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited May 2016
    FENSTER..As a further result of that experience... I have today turned down another contract for a film which is set in Wales..I don't need the hassle....altho I did like Cardiff..
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited May 2016
    @Alanbrooke

    Realistically it should be judged on households. If I get a newspaper, my wife also reads it, my adult kids too if they are at home.

    Oh now you want to measure things per household!!?? Didn't your hero just get the most almighty shellacking because he introduced a new metric: GDP per household??

    Sheesh.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Both Boris Johnson and George Osborne continue to look like lays to me. Conservative Home is representative of a particular type of Conservative member (hence Liam Fox's strong showing) but Boris Johnson needs to be doing better with that type of Conservative member if he is going to get the job.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    I'd put a fiver on Priti Patel.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    edited May 2016

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/


    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
    About 12% of where it started....
    The National sold 100K daily when it started? A bold claim. A link?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TOPPING said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Realistically it should be judged on households. If I get a newspaper, my wife also reads it, my adult kids too if they are at home.

    Oh now you want to measure things per household!!?? Didn't your hero just get the most almighty shellacking because he introduced a new metric: GDP per household??

    Sheesh.

    LOL

    some things are best measured on households other not. :-)
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: in response to @Floater:-

    http://hurryupharry.org/2016/05/03/labours-impoverished-expectations-or-why-i-cannot-join-the-centre-left-in-voting-for-sadiq-khan/

    Powerful piece

    "In short, Sadiq Khan’s extravagant recent claim that “I have spent my whole life fighting extremism” is entirely false. On the contrary, he has supported extremists, he has aligned with extremists, he has shared their platforms, he has circulated petitions advancing their arguments and interests, he has euphemised their blood-curdling incitement as mere “flowery words”, and he has repeatedly used his position as a human rights advocate and an MP to lend extremists’ arguments a spurious legitimacy. And while he has energetically defended the rights of Al Qaeda sympathisers and operatives like Babar Ahmad and Shaker Aamer, Khan has had precious little to say about a campaign of incitement – exposed in the Wimbledon Guardian as far back as 2010 – by the sectarian organisation Khatme Nabuwwat to boycott and ostracise peaceful Ahmadi Muslims, conducted for years on his own south London doorstep, and supported by the imam of the mosque he attends."

    Yes, well, some of us have been saying this for some time.

    Khan's claim that he will take the fight to the extremists is a slogan only. He lacks judgment and his likely inaction on this will only result in the extremists within the Muslim community and within London gaining ground.

    London deserves better. Alas, she - and those of us who live here - will not get it.

    Will the likes of Danny 565 listen though? not a chance.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    Pleasing to see you refer to Real Ale rather than the hipster term "Craft Beer". Much of the latter isn't real anything. But is apparently what is required to wash down some "Street Food".
    Craft beer is for hipsters.

    I hate hipsters.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Makes canvassing fun this afternoon.

    Terror organisation Hamas has "welcomed" Jeremy Corbyn's vow to continue talking to the organisation he once called his "friends" despite pressure on him to denounce the group.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/hamas-welcomes-jeremy-corbyns-refusal-to-condemn-islamist-group/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    tlg86 said:

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.
    If London is so affluent and expensive, how come it's so labour?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What exactly is that tweet supposed to mean?

    The implicit assumed offence - he's getting at me and my kind - is at the heart of the problem. There is no general attack on muslims, only on extremists and their fellow travellers and apologists. And given the events of this last week, rightly so.
    Whether you want to admit it or not, the suggestion throughout the campaign has been that you can't trust Khan simply because he's Muslim. Especially since it's been established Goldsmith has just as many supposed "links" to the extremists as Khan does (including Goldsmith being photographed at a camapign event with one of the people who Khan has been implicated with) -- the sole difference is that Khan has a brown face.
    Goldsmith has not sought to downplay the words of Al Qaradawi - the man in favour of suicide bombing, stoning, the murder of gays etc. He has not been less truthful about his relationship with Babar Ahmed when asked questions about it at different times. He has not denied knowing a Tooting iman who wants to boycott Ahmadi Muslims, until the photo came out. He has not spoken at events with Cage, apologists for terrorists. He has not sought an Islamic blasphemy law. He has not hired people who pose with guns and spread Islamist propaganda. He has not hired people who worked on a campaign condemned by the courts as breaching electoral law.

    The reason I don't trust Khan when he says that he is the man to take the fight to the extremists is not because of his brown face or his religion.

    It is because of what he has done and failed to do, because of what he has said and failed to say.

    These actions and failures to act are the best evidence of whether he has the intention and courage to do what needs to be done, what he says he will do. And what they show - to my mind - is a man who has never shown any willingness at all to challenge extremism, a man who has been more than willing to go along with the default assumptions of the community he comes from if that will get him votes, a man who lacks judgment about whom he should have around him, a man who lacks courage.

    He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.

    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    tlg86 said:

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.

    Agree absolutely. TfL is a major part of the Mayor's role, and anyone who has to interact with London in a significant way (including commuters) should be involved in choosing the Mayor.

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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    dr_spyn said:
    Quick, more pints, more Bollywood, more 'soccer'..
    Makes you wonder who Dixie has been canvassing? Zac and his family ?
    LOL - Hopefully most people could see through the ramping.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    taffys said:

    tlg86 said:

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.
    If London is so affluent and expensive, how come it's so labour?
    The Home counties is where it's at, especially as I'm moving up the road from Hampshire to leafy Surrey...

    Michael Gove will be my new MP :)
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252

    Danny565 said:
    'On Thursday, are we really going to hand the world's greatest city to a Conservative candidate who can't even proof check the photos featured in an article he's put his name to?'
    Since when did writers proof-check articles? They have subs for that - and Photo Editors for photos.....
    Ah, right.
    Team Zac: 'Yeah, we've put some of the usual Sadiq Bin Laden stuff together, just put Zac's name on the byline. A photo? Oh, just stick up whatever you fancy.'
    In the Brave New Scotland I expect politicians will want to control headlines, photos, the BBC.....in the rest of the UK, however......
    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1352345-resistance-is-futile-scottish-sun-tells-readers-to-back-snp-again/
    Endorsements in the United Kingdom general election, 2015.

    http://tinyurl.com/jh9bcl4
    Scottish Newspaper Endorsements:

    SNP: 3
    Lab: 1
    Con: 1
    National UK Newspaper Endorsements incl. Sundays:

    Cons: 9
    Lab: 6
    UKIP: 2
    LDs: 1
    SNP: 0

    Given the Scottish Newspapers outsell the UK ones by orders of magnitude (the Scottish Sun is four times the total sales of the London titles), I think the Scottish Paper endorsement figures a tad more relevant - unless one is playing the 'victim/othering game'

    How does it feel to have the London Telegraph outsell the NATonal by over a third?
    You're trying to make a point about the SNP controlling the press and then refer to the virulently Unionist Telegraph outselling the only indy supporting daily in Scotland? Ok..
    The SNP has more endorsements from the Scottish press than all the other parties added together.....yet the latest entrant, much feted by the Nats is failing (its about half the size of their favourite whipping boy the "Hootsmon", and 7% of the "Daily Retard".)

    Maybe independence is not such a great seller of newspapers?
    The Scottish press also has a high preponderance of paper unwilling to endorse parties (mainly it has to be said 'cos of the shitness of the alternatives). So much for press control.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    More poll news:-

    ICM Leave 45%, remain 43%.

    Northern Ireland Assembly (Lucid Talk)

    DUP 27% (-3% on 2011)
    SF 26% (-1%)
    UUP 15% (+2%)
    SDLP 12% (-2%)
    TUV 4% (+2%)
    Green 3% (+2%)
    Others 4%
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    He's the new Ali G
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Scott_P said:

    Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.

    The SNP are the establishment...

    Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
    https://theferret.scot/information-watchdog-secrets
    Thanks for proving my point about the press.
    What are the circulation figures for The National ? Hard to find.
    You're a lazy creature, but I'm a generous one, so..

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-sands-of-the-times/


    Thanks.
    Unlikely to last long on those numbers.
    About 12% of where it started....
    The National sold 100K daily when it started? A bold claim. A link?
    The popularity of the title – before launch 9,000 digital editions had been sold, priced at £1.50 a week – resulted in Newsquest upping the print run to 100,000 for Tuesday’s edition.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/27/scotland-new-paper-the-national-sales-dip
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    Pleasing to see you refer to Real Ale rather than the hipster term "Craft Beer". Much of the latter isn't real anything. But is apparently what is required to wash down some "Street Food".
    Craft beer is for hipsters.

    I hate hipsters.
    Is it the beards that bother you so much? Or the air of unbearable smugness?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    More of a badger?
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sean_F said:

    More poll news:-

    ICM Leave 45%, remain 43%.

    Northern Ireland Assembly (Lucid Talk)

    DUP 27% (-3% on 2011)
    SF 26% (-1%)
    UUP 15% (+2%)
    SDLP 12% (-2%)
    TUV 4% (+2%)
    Green 3% (+2%)
    Others 4%

    EU referendum poll: Remain: 44% (+1) Leave: 45% (-1) (via ICM / 29 Apr - 03 May) Please note the slight error above.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Makes canvassing fun this afternoon.

    Terror organisation Hamas has "welcomed" Jeremy Corbyn's vow to continue talking to the organisation he once called his "friends" despite pressure on him to denounce the group.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/hamas-welcomes-jeremy-corbyns-refusal-to-condemn-islamist-group/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Good old "Top Trump" card there from Jezza. And he wonders why Guido and co have so much material...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Still shocked an Irishman used such racially derogatory language.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I see HAMAS are helping Corbyn..
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
    The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    Cyclefree said:



    Khan's claim that he will take the fight to the extremists is a slogan only. He lacks judgment and his likely inaction on this will only result in the extremists within the Muslim community and within London gaining ground.

    I think you're mistaken, but maybe we'll find out. Conversely, chatting to a friend, not a member of any party (not even a £3er) and irreligious but on the left: she's wavering in supporting Khan because she feels he's too willing to condemn Livingstone and distance himself from Corbyn:

    "So you want to reward Goldsmith for his campaign?"

    "Oh hell...why is life so bloody difficult?"

    She'll probably come round by Thursday, I think.

    On topic, I agree with Richard that May is the absolutely obvious choice for the Tories. It'll be cool if they pick Gove instead.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    I see HAMAS are helping Corbyn..

    I suspect many voters think Hamas is some kind of chickpea based comestible....
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:


    It is because of what he has done and failed to do, because of what he has said and failed to say.

    These actions and failures to act are the best evidence of whether he has the intention and courage to do what needs to be done, what he says he will do. And what they show - to my mind - is a man who has never shown any willingness at all to challenge extremism, a man who has been more than willing to go along with the default assumptions of the community he comes from if that will get him votes, a man who lacks judgment about whom he should have around him, a man who lacks courage.

    He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.

    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

    Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? Well worth it. He answers your question. The post can be found here - http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/labours-impoverished-expectations.html.

    His support for gay marriage is welcome but irrelevant given all the other things he has said and done. You would not excuse someone who associated with Nazis just because they voted for gay marriage. Why do so in this case?

    I have been willing to praise Khan where praise is due e.g. over gay marriage and his recent statements on anti-Semitism. But I judge in the end on the totality of his actions. And my judgment is that I don't think he will be willing to do what it takes to take the fight to the extremists. I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.

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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    dr_spyn said:
    She took her time over that one.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    Will he answer criticisms by asking "Is it 'cos I's black?" from now on?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    Naz Shah asking Corbyn & Livingstone about Zionism and Anti-Semitism will have to wait for her to get her own radio show.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:


    It is because of what he has done and failed to do, because of what he has said and failed to say.

    These actions and failures to act are the best evidence of whether he has the intention and courage to do what needs to be done, what he says he will do. And what they show - to my mind - is a man who has never shown any willingness at all to challenge extremism, a man who has been more than willing to go along with the default assumptions of the community he comes from if that will get him votes, a man who lacks judgment about whom he should have around him, a man who lacks courage.

    He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.

    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

    Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? Well worth it. He answers your question. The post can be found here - http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/labours-impoverished-expectations.html.

    His support for gay marriage is welcome but irrelevant given all the other things he has said and done. You would not excuse someone who associated with Nazis just because they voted for gay marriage. Why do so in this case?

    I have been willing to praise Khan where praise is due e.g. over gay marriage and his recent statements on anti-Semitism. But I judge in the end on the totality of his actions. And my judgment is that I don't think he will be willing to do what it takes to take the fight to the extremists. I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.

    You said he lacked courage and did not challenge the established views in his community, that's all. The vote for gay marriage does not suggest that is right; neither does his outreach to London's Jewish community. I do agree he has left many hostages to fortune though.

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Cyclefree said:



    Khan's claim that he will take the fight to the extremists is a slogan only. He lacks judgment and his likely inaction on this will only result in the extremists within the Muslim community and within London gaining ground.

    I think you're mistaken, but maybe we'll find out. Conversely, chatting to a friend, not a member of any party (not even a £3er) and irreligious but on the left: she's wavering in supporting Khan because she feels he's too willing to condemn Livingstone and distance himself from Corbyn:

    "So you want to reward Goldsmith for his campaign?"

    "Oh hell...why is life so bloody difficult?"

    She'll probably come round by Thursday, I think.

    On topic, I agree with Richard that May is the absolutely obvious choice for the Tories. It'll be cool if they pick Gove instead.
    http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/labours-impoverished-expectations.html

    Can I suggest you too read this.

    To take the fight to the extremists takes courage: moral and physical. People like Maajid Nawaz or Ayan Hirsi Ali or Caroline Fourest have it in spades. Nothing so far suggests that Khan - with his carefully calibrated statements, equivocation and slogans - does.

    He may not be a bad Mayor but he is not the man to take the fight to the extremists. IMO. A pity. Now more than ever this needs doing, as the events of the past week have shown us.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    It must be a slow news day today. Football (of which I know little, and care even less) is still running on the BBC news headlines after nine minutes.

    I have clocked Leicester won - well done - but I don't care.

    Same as Zac, except, oh yes, you admit it.

    (how's your pint of bitter handling skills?)
    I am an enthusiastic real ale man and love nothing more than sinking a few pints of local brews.

    My local cricket club has won CAMRA awards and is a regular haunt of mine.
    Pleasing to see you refer to Real Ale rather than the hipster term "Craft Beer". Much of the latter isn't real anything. But is apparently what is required to wash down some "Street Food".
    Craft beer is for hipsters.

    I hate hipsters.
    Is it the beards that bother you so much? Or the air of unbearable smugness?
    Both.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.

    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have

    Since having its economic arguments blown apart, Vote Leave has had no other option but to rely on xenophobia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/brexit-camp-immigration-economic-vote-leave
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sean_F said:

    Will he answer criticisms by asking "Is it 'cos I's black?" from now on?
    It's brilliant. The Thick Of It never managed anything like we've seen in the last year. Since the EdStone, it's been a comedy fest.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
    The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
    I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.

    Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    What did Livingstone do with our fine upstanding friends from ROP? I am sure there was something.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    Remember the other day EdM reckoned we needed to be inside the EU in order to tackle climate change? Here's the evidence:

    "EU energy-related carbon emissions creep up in 2015...

    Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions in the European Union crept up 0.7 per cent compared to a year earlier, threatening the bloc's reputation as a leader in climate mitigation and clean energy investment."

    (From BusinessGreen)
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.

    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have

    Since having its economic arguments blown apart, Vote Leave has had no other option but to rely on xenophobia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/brexit-camp-immigration-economic-vote-leave

    That's no way to address Lord Mandelson.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.

    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have

    Since having its economic arguments blown apart, Vote Leave has had no other option but to rely on xenophobia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/brexit-camp-immigration-economic-vote-leave

    Mandy will definitely convert the undecided Tories, they love him.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Still almost two months to go.

    Feels odd having so little discussion or media coverage of the forthcoming elections. They're only two days away.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:




    He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.

    Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?

    Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? Well worth it. He answers your question. The post can be found here - http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/labours-impoverished-expectations.html.

    His support for gay marriage is welcome but irrelevant given all the other things he has said and done. You would not excuse someone who associated with Nazis just because they voted for gay marriage. Why do so in this case?

    I have been willing to praise Khan where praise is due e.g. over gay marriage and his recent statements on anti-Semitism. But I judge in the end on the totality of his actions. And my judgment is that I don't think he will be willing to do what it takes to take the fight to the extremists. I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.

    You said he lacked courage and did not challenge the established views in his community, that's all. The vote for gay marriage does not suggest that is right; neither does his outreach to London's Jewish community. I do agree he has left many hostages to fortune though.

    Outreach to the Jewish community is fine and I am happy to praise him for that.

    But that is very specifically not taking the fight to the extremists in the Muslim community, is it?

    What would be impressive is if he were to go round and speak at mosques, at community events to Muslims and tell them that prejudice against Jews is wrong. It's not the Jews who are the problem here: it's those within the Muslim community (not all, obviously) who are prejudiced, who talk about Hitler and praise the Holocaust and the rest. And that needs calling out: unequivocally and repeatedly and not just in the press or to Jews but to those doing it.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    I know of at least one victory party the SNP have booked for Friday. Hoping it turns out as joyous as the one this guy was heading for...

    image
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    If that happens - every Scottish Tory poster who's ever wondered if it were possible to come back - will be justifiably delighted.
    If there's a 'shy' vote anywhere in the UK, one might think it was Scottish tories.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
    The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
    I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.

    Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
    Clinton and Blair it would seem.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited May 2016
    Sean_F said:

    Will he answer criticisms by asking "Is it 'cos I's black?" from now on?
    LOL, reading some of his earlier tweets he may also be a woman, In his head he is Rosa Parks.
    He's more Southern Alabama than Northern Ireland these days.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    Brave....

    The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.

    With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/03/tories-beat-labour-scottish-elections-ruth-davidson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Given where the polls are, it's pretty much all she can say. You play down expectations when you're heading for a disaster. In this case, once the results are in, few people will remember the predictions as the facts will be enough. If the SCons do finish third then there'll be a bit of smirking from SLab no doubt - until they remember the scale of their losses.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519
    edited May 2016

    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.

    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have

    Since having its economic arguments blown apart, Vote Leave has had no other option but to rely on xenophobia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/brexit-camp-immigration-economic-vote-leave

    Except that Leave haven't relied upon immigration. You and Alasdair (sp?) Meeks have been urging them to do so more in fact.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.

    He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.

    His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.

    I maintained a dignified silence.

    Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
    The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
    I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.

    Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
    Clinton and Blair it would seem.
    Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.

    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have

    Since having its economic arguments blown apart, Vote Leave has had no other option but to rely on xenophobia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/brexit-camp-immigration-economic-vote-leave

    Except that Leave haven't relied upon immigration. You and Alasdair (sp?) Meeks have been urging them to do so more in fact.
    I've been telling Leave not to focus on immigration, but the economy.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Still almost two months to go.

    Feels odd having so little discussion or media coverage of the forthcoming elections. They're only two days away.

    I just looked at the BBC website for the first time in months - not a single election related story in Top 10 read. Didn't see anything about Labour's issues on frontpage.
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    Bugger, Peter Mandelson has written an article which was very similar to a thread I was planning to run.
    Why is the Brexit camp so obsessed with immigration? Because that’s all they have......

    Oh look over there... distraction politics.

    Mandelson has such great influence and appeal to the voters, especially Labour ones. (Shurely schome mishtake Ed)
This discussion has been closed.