The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.
With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.
Given where the polls are, it's pretty much all she can say. You play down expectations when you're heading for a disaster. In this case, once the results are in, few people will remember the predictions as the facts will be enough. If the SCons do finish third then there'll be a bit of smirking from SLab no doubt - until they remember the scale of their losses.
The fact that this is even possible, just illustrates how badly SLAB are doing. Fightback? What fightback? More the slow death of SLAB.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
That will really appeal to the reamaining working class still with Labour. Not.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
Good afternoon, everyone. Still almost two months to go. Feels odd having so little discussion or media coverage of the forthcoming elections. They're only two days away.
I beg to differ. Only 7 weeks from this Thursday and once the aftermath of these national/local elections are dissected, then on Monday it will be 6 weeks and a few days left, or 3 weeks and a few days until the postal votes.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
Where have I bigged up Lord Mandelson?
At 3.10 you were congratulating yourself that you and he agreed.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
Where have I bigged up Lord Mandelson?
At 3.10 you were congratulating yourself that you and he agreed.
Bless. I see your posts are as your prediction about UKIP in Dover.
The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.
With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.
Good afternoon, everyone. Still almost two months to go. Feels odd having so little discussion or media coverage of the forthcoming elections. They're only two days away.
I beg to differ. Only 7 weeks from this Thursday and once the aftermath of these national/local elections are dissected, then on Monday it will be 6 weeks and a few days left, or 3 weeks and a few days until the postal votes.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Getting excuses in early? The mood on here has most definitely changed if that means anything.
The gloating post Obama was epic "it's all over" blah blah... It's reminiscent of Stuart Dickson and his SIndy *tipping point* posts. Whilst not expecting Brexit to win, I feel more hopeful than I ever expected to be at this stage.
I'm one of life's optimists, I'd replace your cautious optimism with positivity, there's no shame in trying but failing.
Notice how the Remainers have stopped calling us names, how the "Leave should do this..." threads have dried up. They were smugly expecting to be miles clear by now, all that is left for them now is sit with their fingers crossed and hope we don't play France or Germany on 22/6. Who can they wheel out after Obama, they've played all their cards.
Clinton and Blair it would seem.
Actually TSE has completed his transformation by bigging up Mandelson. I thought I'd seen it all, just shows what people will do to ingratiate themselves with others.
Where have I bigged up Lord Mandelson?
At 3.10 you were congratulating yourself that you and he agreed.
Bless. I see your posts are as your prediction about UKIP in Dover.
Except that Leave haven't relied upon immigration. You and Alasdair (sp?) Meeks have been urging them to do so more in fact.
I've been telling Leave not to focus on immigration, but the economy.
They need to neutralise Remain on the economy. They can make a good long-term case but will never win on the short-term case.
Leave have been focussing on laws (e.g. prisoner votes), migration, cost, the risky future of the EU and trade deals from what I've seen.
I think the thrust of that is correct. They have been much slower on the economy, and have some catching up to do. But Remain have given them material to work with.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Except that Leave haven't relied upon immigration. You and Alasdair (sp?) Meeks have been urging them to do so more in fact.
I've been telling Leave not to focus on immigration, but the economy.
I'm not going through your posts, but my memory is of you heartily endorsing his thread header on the subject. If I'm wrong I apologise.
From December. If UKIP and Leave want to make further progress and win the referendum they need to talk about things other than immigration. ...............From this Sunday just gone.............. If Leave wants to win they need to show that Brexit is the better option for the economy and the financial wellbeing of voters...... http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/01/its-the-economy-stupid/
Why would they want to take advice from someone who wants them to lose? Innocent face. Labour voters are the key and they are prepared to vote for Ed Miliband economics which is all that one needs to know about their judgement.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
Except the new PCC system even including the elections etc costs less than the old system did. So it is more democratic and frees up money to be spent on policemen.
I looked it up as I was wondering whether they were included in the 4% others. As it is they could hold the balance of power if there is such a thing in NI.
To take the fight to the extremists takes courage: moral and physical. People like Maajid Nawaz or Ayan Hirsi Ali or Caroline Fourest have it in spades. Nothing so far suggests that Khan - with his carefully calibrated statements, equivocation and slogans - does.
He may not be a bad Mayor but he is not the man to take the fight to the extremists. IMO. A pity. Now more than ever this needs doing, as the events of the past week have shown us.
I've read it. I think he blurs the line between opposing extremism and agreeing everything he says. He quotes a joint "Corbynite" (his term) letter that Khan signed, without bothering to comment, as though it was obviously repellent:
"The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all. Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion."
I see nothing in that extract to repel me; there are aspects one could debate, but in general it seems to me unexceptionable.
The more difficult issue is that if one gets into the politics of troubled areas at all (Northern Ireland, Middle East, Kashmir, etc.), you very quickly find that some of the protagonists have ideas that you don't like. Share a platform at a meeting where they're speaking, and you find yourself accused not for anything you say, not even for anything they say, but for things they say before or after in some completely different context. I think you should be willing to debate pretty much anyone with any following (would I debate Marine Le Pen? Yes), though if they say something you disagree with at the meeting, you shouldn't be afraid to say so. Otherwise you get into the "no platform" stuff, which I generally disagree with.
One solution is just not to get involved. But it's awkward that constituents want you to take an interest. I never had many Palestinian constituents, but I had quite a few Muslims of Kashmiri background, most of whom took no apparent interest whatever in Israel or Palestine but were very keen that I should criticise India. I looked into it and up to a point I agreed and did sign motions criticising some of the policies of the Indian military. Perhaps I was thereby agreeing with some fundamentalists with a different agenda. Maybe some were co-signatories? I didn't have the time or interest to research them all - I simply said what I thought.I don't think that most politicians who express an opinion on anything are very different.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.
If London is so affluent and expensive, how come it's so labour?
Paris and Manhattan also Left. The rich either lives outside London or are too rich to care. Full of creatives and poor
From ICM (Remain/Leave) Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
So how does this massive advantage of ABC1's for REMAIN (and they vote more regulalrly) show up in these figures, which someone was on about recently?
Good for Remain if Mandy has decided to lend his dark arts. Say what you like about the product, but you can't dispute that the man's a master salesman. He utterly persuaded the British public on the merits of Blairism and even came close to reviving Gordon's nosediving career. Leave won't stand a chance!
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Fascinating
Remains biggest trump cards appear to be those least likely to vote? Leave, the opposite?
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
I'm trying to work out if it could get any worse for Corbyn and Labour, now they've been ENDORSED BY HAMAS
I suppose there's always endorsement by ISIS. But after that, what? Celebrity backing from Vlad Dracul? Beelzebub? Death, the Taker of Men?
I wonder if Corbyn could be gone by next week. I dunno how. But something has to give. The structure is buckling.
Other than we are in a very weird world, where the leader happily addresses communist and marxist anarchics, shadow CoE happily quotes the words of a mass murderer and have a history of supporting terrorists, 50+ are suspended from the party for racism in a few weeks...having HAMAS endorse you is just another normal day in the Labour Party 2016...
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
Quick, more pints, more Bollywood, more 'soccer'..
Makes you wonder who Dixie has been canvassing? Zac and his family ?
LOL - Hopefully most people could see through the ramping.
Not ramping, trying to give you an honest view. Latest opinion poll put Khan 9 points ahead of Zac but the 2nd preferences give him a massive lead. That's very heard to pick up in the data.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Good for Remain if Mandy has decided to lend his dark arts. Say what you like about the product, but you can't dispute that the man's a master salesman. He utterly persuaded the British public on the merits of Blairism and even came close to reviving Gordon's nosediving career. Leave won't stand a chance!
He tried very hard to convince us to join the Euro. How did that work out?
Yeah, that's a real feature of Scotland, the press and the BBC being supplicants and tools of the SNP.
The SNP are the establishment...
Scotland’s freedom of information watchdog bowed to behind-the-scenes pressure from the Scottish Government to conceal information about legal advice on college tuition fees
The National sold 100K daily when it started? A bold claim. A link?
The popularity of the title – before launch 9,000 digital editions had been sold, priced at £1.50 a week – resulted in Newsquest upping the print run to 100,000 for Tuesday’s edition.
'On 27 November, The Guardian reported that of the 100,000 copies printed on 25 November, unofficial sales figures indicated that only 50,000 had been sold, and that daily sales were stabilising at around the 50,000 mark.[11][24] Sales figures for the first Friday edition, published on 28 November, were reported as 40,000 by The Guardian, with an average daily sale for the first week of 44,000 copies'
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Fascinating
That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
I'm trying to work out if it could get any worse for Corbyn and Labour, now they've been ENDORSED BY HAMAS
I suppose there's always endorsement by ISIS. But after that, what? Celebrity backing from Vlad Dracul? Beelzebub? Death, the Taker of Men?
I wonder if Corbyn could be gone by next week. I dunno how. But something has to give. The structure is buckling.
Other than we are in a very weird world, where the leader happily addresses communist and marxist anarchics, shadow CoE happily quotes the words of a mass murderer and have a history of supporting terrorists, 50+ are suspended from the party for racism in a few weeks...having HAMAS endorse you is just another normal day in the Labour Party 2016...
Well quite. What Labour are doing is pushing the envelop in every unacceptable direction - and they're still neck and neck with Tories in some polls. I've no idea what's going on.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
Good for Remain if Mandy has decided to lend his dark arts. Say what you like about the product, but you can't dispute that the man's a master salesman. He utterly persuaded the British public on the merits of Blairism and even came close to reviving Gordon's nosediving career. Leave won't stand a chance!
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
I understand but I disagree.
And you're the guy that is worried that if we stay in the EU we will have a faceless bureaucracy making decisions for us, right?
The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.
With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
I understand but I disagree.
And you're the guy that is worried that if we stay in the EU we will have a faceless bureaucracy making decisions for us, right?
No, I'm saying we were fine without the EU and PCCs, we don't need either.
It seems your biggest issue is you can't understand why people disagree with you.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
I understand but I disagree.
And you're the guy that is worried that if we stay in the EU we will have a faceless bureaucracy making decisions for us, right?
No, I'm saying we were fine without the EU and PCCs, we don't need either.
It seems your biggest issue is you can't understand why people disagree with you.
We were fine with a system that cost more and without any advantages you can name?
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
Perhaps you can explain to us all pre PCCs
The old PAs were comprised of (very well remunerated) councillors. The composition of these was determined by an arcane formula and appointments made by the relevant group whips across the councils in the police area. The members of the Authority never (in my experience) reported back to Council, never mind to the public. Once in a blue moon, they might report to their Group.
There was no means of accountability and no means of deselecting them other than through the Whips' patronage or the standard processes of selection and election. Given that often even party members wouldn't know that a councillor was on the PA, never mind how good a job they were doing there, such processes were meaningless. On top of which, even if an Authority was doing a good job, because it was created by formula across the whole county/area, it could easily be reformed due to electoral changes based on wholly different issues.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
We disagree on a lot but on this I agree entirely. It is a part of the whole Hannan/Carswell programme of democratization and localisation and something I think is an excellent idea.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Fascinating
That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
I agree with the concept of PCC. Having endured many Police Authority meetings in my previous life with the plod - they're dismal.
There are several things wrong. PCCs are being used as sinecures for failed politicians and the level of understanding of what PAs did or didn't do before was incredibly low beforehand. Hence there's no obvious *need* for them. Until I joined the plod, I'd no idea what a precept was or that it was a word.
PA meetings were populated by local councillors who appointed themselves to it - and chose a Chair during tea and biscuits. They nitpicked over the minutiae of police budgets despite knowing almost nothing about anything. 'I think you've allocated to much to publicity for road policing blah blah'. It was beyond pointless.
I want PCCs to become the Jim Gordons of Gotham, but that will take a long time to bed in. I'd prefer them to be apolitical myself.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
It is a democratic process. Previously it wasn't. I don't care what Ann Barnes did or didn't do; her one example doesn't detract from the system which is a vast improvement on no democratic process.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
I understand but I disagree.
And you're the guy that is worried that if we stay in the EU we will have a faceless bureaucracy making decisions for us, right?
No, I'm saying we were fine without the EU and PCCs, we don't need either.
It seems your biggest issue is you can't understand why people disagree with you.
We were fine with a system that cost more and without any advantages you can name?
Mr Thompson, if you're trying to persuade me that PCCs are a good idea you're wasting your time I'm afraid. I'll give you some advice:
Never try to teach a pig to sing, you won't get very far and the pig will stop listening.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Fascinating
People who work or are looking for work want to stay in the EU.
How does an unemployed not seeking work differ from a homemaker?
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
What does the absolute turnout say about anything in this case?
If its up on the 1st run, then its a sign of acceptance of a good idea.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has predicted her party will beat Labour into third place for the first time in the history of the Holyrood parliament.
With just one full day of campaigning left before Thursday’s elections, Ruth Davidson said her party’s internal polling leaves her confident that the Tories will be returned as the official opposition to the SNP.
He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.
Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?
Can I suggest you read the full post by Jamie Palmer? I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.
You said he lacked courage and did not challenge the established views in his community, that's all. The vote for gay marriage does not suggest that is right; neither does his outreach to London's Jewish community. I do agree he has left many hostages to fortune though.
Outreach to the Jewish community is fine and I am happy to praise him for that.
But that is very specifically not taking the fight to the extremists in the Muslim community, is it?
What would be impressive is if he were to go round and speak at mosques, at community events to Muslims and tell them that prejudice against Jews is wrong. It's not the Jews who are the problem here: it's those within the Muslim community (not all, obviously) who are prejudiced, who talk about Hitler and praise the Holocaust and the rest. And that needs calling out: unequivocally and repeatedly and not just in the press or to Jews but to those doing it.
I agree. It would be nice to see any politician doing it, to be honest.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
A colleague of mine (who's very nice and good humoured btw) just barked across the desk during lunch about the EU referendum.
He's a Labour socialist who lives in Islington and is out campaigning for Khan.
His views were (semi-jokingly) that the under 50s should have double votes and that pensioners shouldn't vote as they'd be dead in 10-15 years time. He also said that it was outrageous that the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth citizens could vote but EU citizens could not.
I maintained a dignified silence.
Don't you just love London? I personally think those of us who work in London, but can't afford to live in it, should get at least half a vote in the Mayoral election.
If London is so affluent and expensive, how come it's so labour?
Paris and Manhattan also Left. The rich either lives outside London or are too rich to care. Full of creatives and poor
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
I don't know why we can't just have directly elected Chief Constables. Then see what happens to turnout.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
Perhaps you can explain to us all pre PCCs
The old PAs were comprised of (very well remunerated) councillors. The composition of these was determined by an arcane formula and appointments made by the relevant group whips across the councils in the police area. The members of the Authority never (in my experience) reported back to Council, never mind to the public. Once in a blue moon, they might report to their Group.
There was no means of accountability and no means of deselecting them other than through the Whips' patronage or the standard processes of selection and election. Given that often even party members wouldn't know that a councillor was on the PA, never mind how good a job they were doing there, such processes were meaningless. On top of which, even if an Authority was doing a good job, because it was created by formula across the whole county/area, it could easily be reformed due to electoral changes based on wholly different issues.
Thank you and well put, both you and plato make good arguments. I guess my antipathy stems from political parties being involved, it has to compromise people and encourage others to vote on tribal lines.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
Now we're talking.
Small state libertarianism is utopia.
Small state libertarianism means taking away a lot of power from central government and giving it to the individual and to local groups such as parish and district councils. PCCs are in fact a part of that. Local accountability.
The most coherent recent advocating of small state libertarianism was by Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan in 'The Plan'. PCCs were a part of that plan.
Republican Attitudes on Climate Change Thaw: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601354/republican-attitudes-on-climate-change-thaw/#/set/id/601376/ "This new willingness to recognize reality stems partly from the fact that a strong majority of American voters view climate change deniers as flat-earthers. ...it’s also driven by the fact that many clean energy jobs are located in Republican congressional districts."
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Fascinating
That must boost your cautious optimism, we all know who bothers to vote.
It's encouraging, for sure.
I now think there's a chance of running it close, but Winter Is Coming from Monday.
The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
Students: 69/31 Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41 Part Time Work: 56/44 Full Time Work: 53/47 Unemployed seeking work: 52/48 Homemakers : 45/55 State Pensioners: 42/58 Private Pensioners: 35/65
Workers of the world unite.... you'll be beaten by your granny.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
So who holds the Chief Constable and his/her reports to account on behalf of the public and sets the policy priorities? You do know that the old Police Authorities didn't come for free?
Perhaps you can explain to us all pre PCCs
The old PAs were comprised of (very well remunerated) councillors. The composition of these was determined by an arcane formula and appointments made by the relevant group whips across the councils in the police area. The members of the Authority never (in my experience) reported back to Council, never mind to the public. Once in a blue moon, they might report to their Group.
There was no means of accountability and no means of deselecting them other than through the Whips' patronage or the standard processes of selection and election. Given that often even party members wouldn't know that a councillor was on the PA, never mind how good a job they were doing there, such processes were meaningless. On top of which, even if an Authority was doing a good job, because it was created by formula across the whole county/area, it could easily be reformed due to electoral changes based on wholly different issues.
Thank you and well put, both you and plato make good arguments. I guess my antipathy stems from political parties being involved, it has to compromise people and encourage others to vote on tribal lines.
I think that's the point, to some extent. Priorities in policing are inherently political.
There's at least one good Carswell article explaining the motivation for this very well.
It is because of what he has done and failed to do, because of what he has said and failed to say.
These actions and failures to act are the best evidence of whether he has the intention and courage to do what needs to be done, what he says he will do. And what they show - to my mind - is a man who has never shown any willingness at all to challenge extremism, a man who has been more than willing to go along with the default assumptions of the community he comes from if that will get him votes, a man who lacks judgment about whom he should have around him, a man who lacks courage.
He is not the man to help mould a British Islam through his role as Mayor. He is not the man who will challenge the Muslim community to adapt to Western values rather than segregate themselves further in their own. Rather I fear he will be the Mayor who will allow Salafist extreme Islam to gain more of a foothold. And that is not good news for any of us, whatever we are.
Why do you think he risked death threats and voted for gay marriage?
His support for gay marriage is welcome but irrelevant given all the other things he has said and done. You would not excuse someone who associated with Nazis just because they voted for gay marriage. Why do so in this case?
I have been willing to praise Khan where praise is due e.g. over gay marriage and his recent statements on anti-Semitism. But I judge in the end on the totality of his actions. And my judgment is that I don't think he will be willing to do what it takes to take the fight to the extremists. I would like to be proved wrong and if I am I will admit this.
judge in the end on the totality of his actions
This doesn't seem to be getting much attention, and IMHO it is very important.
If Mr Khan wins, he has quite a lot to prove. The opportunities are huge.
But if it turns out he was only offering campaigning slogans, then with no ill intent he'll make the problems somewhat worse.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
Well I'm happy for you to persuade me that the money spent on Ann Barnes is money well spent.
I know. Democracy can be a nightmare at times; all the wrong decisions made by, frankly, a ghastly electorate. Still, you know what Sir Winston said...
Well we survived for a long time without PCCs somehow.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
Yes we survived on a more expensive and less democratic system that didn't get as much scrutiny as the likes of Barnes now face. What advantage did that old more expensive system have?
No idea.
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I couldn't care less what the turnout is.
Nor me, but it will point out how many people are interested in PCCs. I suspect that most people, unlike you, simply aren't.
It takes time for these things to bed in and for people to realise their purpose.
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
I don't know why we can't just have directly elected Chief Constables. Then see what happens to turnout.
Terrible idea. That's like electing judges or the CPS - law and order operations can't be political/vote grabbing.
Republican Attitudes on Climate Change Thaw: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601354/republican-attitudes-on-climate-change-thaw/#/set/id/601376/ "This new willingness to recognize reality stems partly from the fact that a strong majority of American voters view climate change deniers as flat-earthers. ...it’s also driven by the fact that many clean energy jobs are located in Republican congressional districts."
So nothing to do with the actual science then. Not exactly a great advert for the whole AGW religion.
Anyone in Kent voting in the PCC election should consider Henry Bolton an excellent candidate. I won't be voting as its not a post I agree with.
How on earth can an elected representative which gives you a say over how the police force is run not be something you agree with?
I'd rather the money be spent on policemen.
PCCs are democracy in action. Amazing that anyone would not appreciate this. 2x amazing that anyone on this site wouldn't.
We disagree on a lot but on this I agree entirely. It is a part of the whole Hannan/Carswell programme of democratization and localisation and something I think is an excellent idea.
I agree. We need more democracy and the councillor committees were useless. It will take time to get more power to the PCC away from the Home Office etc.
Comments
SundayDaily Politics.He said the economic argument was a wash (it isn't) and immigration was the best way for leave to win.
Some are even predicting a few Tory constituency wins. Or SNP losses if you prefer.
Go tug your forelock
Talking of hostages to fortune....
Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36190557
http://lucidtalk.co.uk/news/191-who-will-northern-ireland-vote-for-at-2016-assembly-elections
I'm not sure is the answer, but TSE's posts and threads read like an open job application with their fawning references.
He's miles removed from being an independent thinker such as yourself.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/
From this Sunday just gone.
If Leave wants to win they need to show that Brexit is the better option for the economy and the financial wellbeing of voters.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/01/its-the-economy-stupid/
Leave have been focussing on laws (e.g. prisoner votes), migration, cost, the risky future of the EU and trade deals from what I've seen.
I think the thrust of that is correct. They have been much slower on the economy, and have some catching up to do. But Remain have given them material to work with.
Come on TSE I've got you cornered now, let's see what you've got.
Oh look the polls are level.
And they should, loudly, and often.
Alan Charles OTOH had money for old rope with his Derbyshire job.
It is a tricky one.
Students: 69/31
Unemployed not seeking work: 59/41
Part Time Work: 56/44
Full Time Work: 53/47
Unemployed seeking work: 52/48
Homemakers : 45/55
State Pensioners: 42/58
Private Pensioners: 35/65
Labour voters are the key and they are prepared to vote for Ed Miliband economics which is all that one needs to know about their judgement.
Google Ann Barnes and watch the fly on the wall documentary about her and her Youth Cpommissioner
"The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.
Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion."
I see nothing in that extract to repel me; there are aspects one could debate, but in general it seems to me unexceptionable.
The more difficult issue is that if one gets into the politics of troubled areas at all (Northern Ireland, Middle East, Kashmir, etc.), you very quickly find that some of the protagonists have ideas that you don't like. Share a platform at a meeting where they're speaking, and you find yourself accused not for anything you say, not even for anything they say, but for things they say before or after in some completely different context. I think you should be willing to debate pretty much anyone with any following (would I debate Marine Le Pen? Yes), though if they say something you disagree with at the meeting, you shouldn't be afraid to say so. Otherwise you get into the "no platform" stuff, which I generally disagree with.
One solution is just not to get involved. But it's awkward that constituents want you to take an interest. I never had many Palestinian constituents, but I had quite a few Muslims of Kashmiri background, most of whom took no apparent interest whatever in Israel or Palestine but were very keen that I should criticise India. I looked into it and up to a point I agreed and did sign motions criticising some of the policies of the Indian military. Perhaps I was thereby agreeing with some fundamentalists with a different agenda. Maybe some were co-signatories? I didn't have the time or interest to research them all - I simply said what I thought.I don't think that most politicians who express an opinion on anything are very different.
At least Corbyn and Labour haven't been endorsed by Hitler.
This is not tricky to understand or endorse; as I said, I'm surprised that people on here who have an interest in politics find this at all difficult to understand.
Edit: I've googled Ann Barnes now. And I can only hope that the Kent voters throw her out at the earliest opportunity (I didn't get as far down to see if she is still in place).
You agree with PCCs, I don't. Let's what the % turnout is like.
I think Leave has a chance.
'On 27 November, The Guardian reported that of the 100,000 copies printed on 25 November, unofficial sales figures indicated that only 50,000 had been sold, and that daily sales were stabilising at around the 50,000 mark.[11][24] Sales figures for the first Friday edition, published on 28 November, were reported as 40,000 by The Guardian, with an average daily sale for the first week of 44,000 copies'
http://tinyurl.com/hbst4co
100k > 44k.
Nor quite as egregious as predicting a £200b oil boom followed by an oil bust, but still..
Results on Thursday will reset the baseline.
https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1/status/727126842713509888
It seems your biggest issue is you can't understand why people disagree with you.
said no-one ever...
There was no means of accountability and no means of deselecting them other than through the Whips' patronage or the standard processes of selection and election. Given that often even party members wouldn't know that a councillor was on the PA, never mind how good a job they were doing there, such processes were meaningless. On top of which, even if an Authority was doing a good job, because it was created by formula across the whole county/area, it could easily be reformed due to electoral changes based on wholly different issues.
Said everyone.
There are several things wrong. PCCs are being used as sinecures for failed politicians and the level of understanding of what PAs did or didn't do before was incredibly low beforehand. Hence there's no obvious *need* for them. Until I joined the plod, I'd no idea what a precept was or that it was a word.
PA meetings were populated by local councillors who appointed themselves to it - and chose a Chair during tea and biscuits. They nitpicked over the minutiae of police budgets despite knowing almost nothing about anything. 'I think you've allocated to much to publicity for road policing blah blah'. It was beyond pointless.
I want PCCs to become the Jim Gordons of Gotham, but that will take a long time to bed in. I'd prefer them to be apolitical myself.
Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes 1m1 minute ago
Respect Party will be livid at Hamas endorsing Labour, still Hezbollah and Daesh still to play for....
Saying that turnout is a reason one way or another for having a post is not really a valuable contribution to the argument. If that were taken as a measure of whether or not something should exist then most parish councils and plenty of town and district councils would be in danger as well.
Never try to teach a pig to sing, you won't get very far and the pig will stop listening.
How does an unemployed not seeking work differ from a homemaker?
If its up on the 1st run, then its a sign of acceptance of a good idea.
Small state libertarianism is utopia.
The most coherent recent advocating of small state libertarianism was by Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan in 'The Plan'. PCCs were a part of that plan.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601354/republican-attitudes-on-climate-change-thaw/#/set/id/601376/
"This new willingness to recognize reality stems partly from the fact that a strong majority of American voters view climate change deniers as flat-earthers. ...it’s also driven by the fact that many clean energy jobs are located in Republican congressional districts."
The barrage will make the Battle of Berlin look like a light dusting.
There's at least one good Carswell article explaining the motivation for this very well.
This doesn't seem to be getting much attention, and IMHO it is very important.
If Mr Khan wins, he has quite a lot to prove. The opportunities are huge.
But if it turns out he was only offering campaigning slogans, then with no ill intent he'll make the problems somewhat worse.
'Nigel Farage says he would have been killed by the 'hard-left' if it wasn't for his £15,000 a day taxpayer-funded bodyguards'
http://tinyurl.com/zr7y9la