SO we are nailed on for a shock Zac victory then Dixie?
No idea. Except to say I heard a legend with the initials L.C. say last week...'everything is going to plan.' I just don't know what that plan is! because it is a low interest election, there isn't enough quantification. But if the Doughnut turns out, then maybe.
Let's hope for your sake he does a better job than he did in Canada.
The man's not a miracle worker. Poor craftsman who blames his tools and all that, but it would seem Zac is not a great tool. Unless Dixie is right.
The edict requiring the wearing of the badge was 1941. There were earlier local instances of different forms of public visual signs for Jews - for example from 1938, German Jews were required to identify in their shop windows that they were a Jewish Business. It was not until after the invasion of Poland that the first badges were required to be worn on the person.
Of course, the 'outing' of Jews in Germany started well before that, culminating in Kristallnacht which as 9-10 November 1938.
Not convinced, but can't prove it because all my reference books are at school! What's your source?
I think the Holocaust Memorial Centre website should be relatively reliable.
'Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges. By the end of 1939, all Jews in the newly-acquired Polish territories were required to wear badges. Upon invading the Soviet Union in June 1941, the Germans again applied this requirement to newly-conquered lands. Throughout the rest of 1941 and 1942, Germany, its satellite states and western occupied territories adopted regulations stipulating that Jews wear identifying badges. Only in Denmark, where King Christian X is said to have threatened to wear the badge himself if it were imposed on his country’s Jewish population, were the Germans unable to impose such a regulation.'
During the first six years of Hitler’s dictatorship, German Jews felt the effects of more than 400 decrees and regulations that restricted all aspects of their public and private lives.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
I have just checked . The wearing of the Star of David in Germany became compulsory in September 1941.
Not convinced, but can't prove it because all my reference books are at school! What's your source?
I see ydoether's historical knowledge is looking as flimsy as ever.
You know @JWisemann, I almost wish I could feel sorry for you. It must be horrible to be constantly in the wrong, to be an apologist for mass murderers, to lose every argument you take part in and to always be the butt end of everyone's jokes.
But since I doubt if you have bothered to do any of the research I suggested you read to prove your loathsome and thoroughly misguided views wrong, and since like Stalin you now appear to be jumping on the racism bandwagon in your old age, I do have to say I think it's your own fault.
If of course you stopped behaving like a child with temper tantrams and engaged with people in a meaningful way, you might find yourself popular again. I know you can do it because I coaxed you into doing it once. But maybe you were feeling ill that night.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
There were never any ghettos in Germany. They were further east in Poland, Latvia and Czechoslovakia.
Yes, Jews were forced to wear yellow stars before the war. Not sure when but certainly by 1938. It is also reasonable to point out theNazis hesitated about going further is because they feared the German population would react badly. When they marched into Austria, mass humiliations and confiscations of Jewish property followed. From the very first hours of the war, Jews were murdered in Poland.
One crucial point about the difference between the Nazis and Israels is also that the Palestinians have the means of fighting back, and use them. Of course they are not nearly as effective as the IDF's weapons, but thus far exceed any resistance the German Jews could have put up.
The problem with drawing such comparisons is that it merely allows Israel to ignore such criticism on the basis it is crass, ill-informed and racist. The further problem is as we are seeing with Livingstone, they are often correct.
I was referring specifically to Germany - I am well aware of what happened post- Anschluss and the Invasion of Poland.
Not convinced, but can't prove it because all my reference books are at school! What's your source?
I think the Holocaust Memorial Centre website should be relatively reliable.
'Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges. By the end of 1939, all Jews in the newly-acquired Polish territories were required to wear badges. Upon invading the Soviet Union in June 1941, the Germans again applied this requirement to newly-conquered lands. Throughout the rest of 1941 and 1942, Germany, its satellite states and western occupied territories adopted regulations stipulating that Jews wear identifying badges. Only in Denmark, where King Christian X is said to have threatened to wear the badge himself if it were imposed on his country’s Jewish population, were the Germans unable to impose such a regulation.'
That seems more likely to be a reliable source than Wikipedia, but I am surprised to learn that it was as late as 1942. I thought that in Kristallnacht several Jews were attacked because they were wearing stars. However, it is some years since I studied it in depth and I may have been remembering that the shops were being attacked.
I was referring specifically to Germany - I am well aware of what happened post- Anschluss and the Invasion of Poland.
My point Justin (which I accept could have been clearer) is that I doubt if the Israeli government stops at the odd bit of alleged discrimination because it's terrified that otherwise there will be riots on the streets of Haifa that the IDF will be unable to control!
Justin 124.. I think we all accept the fact that you are not aware..The first Ghettos were established in 1939. The number grew to over a thousand..
'There were never any ghettos in Germany. They were further east in Poland, Latvia and Czechoslovakia.'Ydoethur said I have nothing to add other than to suggest your own awareness is clearly lacking.(I am referring to Richard Dodd)
Ken thought Hitler wasn't that bad in 1932. Justin's moving it on until 1941.
Matter of time before we reach April 1945. My money is on Daodao, but Roger and JWisemann are good each way bets.
You are misreading my thoughts/views. Many people who masquerade as anti-Zionist harbour anti-Semitic views as well. I am not defending Ken L, who has "form" in portraying Zionists/Jews in a negative light. However, the current affair is about using the unpleasant views of some Labour representatives as a stick with which to beat the current Labour leadership, just in advance of significant elections. I doubt if Guido Fawkes and his ilk give a damn about anti-Semitism per se. In my view, drawing attention to the problem may make matters worse - no one is disliked more than someone who is always complaining about every possible slight.
The limited co-operation between the Zionists and German government in the mid 1930s, which Ken L alluded to in order to cast aspersions on Zionism, had all but ceased by the outbreak of WW2, if not before. When Hitler "went mad" in 1941 by deliberately initiating a war on 2 fronts (something which he had previously stated Germany should avoid at all costs), his regime planned to liquidate the Yishuv (as the Jewish settlement in the British mandate of Palestine was then known) as well, by invading Palestine from the Vichy-occupied Levant and from Libya via Egypt.
Anti-Semitic views are commonplace throughout the Christian and Islamic world, and are inherent in the belief systems of these 2 faiths, although until Zionism and militant Wahabism emerged, there was generally more toleration of Jews in Islamic states, albeit as 2nd class subjects. At present, the UK is somewhat less affected as intense religious/political views are now less widely held by most of the population than in many other countries. In contrast, England in the Middle Ages was notoriously anti-Semitic - the blood libel originated here.
Comments
'Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges. By the end of 1939, all Jews in the newly-acquired Polish territories were required to wear badges. Upon invading the Soviet Union in June 1941, the Germans again applied this requirement to newly-conquered lands. Throughout the rest of 1941 and 1942, Germany, its satellite states and western occupied territories adopted regulations stipulating that Jews wear identifying badges. Only in Denmark, where King Christian X is said to have threatened to wear the badge himself if it were imposed on his country’s Jewish population, were the Germans unable to impose such a regulation.'
http://www.holocaustcenter.org/holocaust-badges
http://hurryupharry.org/2016/05/02/jeremy-corbyn-defended-stephen-sizer-linking-to-antisemitic-websites-as-a-technical-oversight/
1933–1938
During the first six years of Hitler’s dictatorship, German Jews felt the effects of more than 400 decrees and regulations that restricted all aspects of their public and private lives.
https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1933-1938
new thread
But since I doubt if you have bothered to do any of the research I suggested you read to prove your loathsome and thoroughly misguided views wrong, and since like Stalin you now appear to be jumping on the racism bandwagon in your old age, I do have to say I think it's your own fault.
If of course you stopped behaving like a child with temper tantrams and engaged with people in a meaningful way, you might find yourself popular again. I know you can do it because I coaxed you into doing it once. But maybe you were feeling ill that night.
Read it and weep
I have nothing to add other than to suggest your own awareness is clearly lacking.(I am referring to Richard Dodd)
BTW, New Thread, guys.
The limited co-operation between the Zionists and German government in the mid 1930s, which Ken L alluded to in order to cast aspersions on Zionism, had all but ceased by the outbreak of WW2, if not before. When Hitler "went mad" in 1941 by deliberately initiating a war on 2 fronts (something which he had previously stated Germany should avoid at all costs), his regime planned to liquidate the Yishuv (as the Jewish settlement in the British mandate of Palestine was then known) as well, by invading Palestine from the Vichy-occupied Levant and from Libya via Egypt.
Anti-Semitic views are commonplace throughout the Christian and Islamic world, and are inherent in the belief systems of these 2 faiths, although until Zionism and militant Wahabism emerged, there was generally more toleration of Jews in Islamic states, albeit as 2nd class subjects. At present, the UK is somewhat less affected as intense religious/political views are now less widely held by most of the population than in many other countries. In contrast, England in the Middle Ages was notoriously anti-Semitic - the blood libel originated here.