I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
I'm related by marriage to Jews, from North London coincidentally, they talk about anti semitism in an almost embarrassed way, as if they're resigned to it. I made the point the other day that the majority of people in the UK have absolutely no knowledge of this sort of thing and you are correct, it is shameful.
Need I ask who's responsible having considered it.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
You appear to be quoting me below. But I have not said what you have put me down as saying. You have, I think?
When I was growing up in the 1970s there were no guards outside synagogues. There are now. This has been a recent phenomenon. And an unwelcome one.
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes. It is relevant for us to know this. It is, of course, not OK to assume that all people with that background behave in that way but pretending as, for too long, we did that it it had nothing to do with it led to great pain and suffering being inflicted on the most vulnerable. And I cannot forgive those who, in the name of some idiotic multicultural creed, sought to shut down argument about and investigation into grotesque crimes against children because it might point a finger of blame against the cultural and religious attitudes of a particular group from whom one political party in particular derived votes.
You can express your view about the Israeli government. But you do not speak for all Jews which is what you were claiming to do.
I don't think Labour has been in the vanguard of the fight against racism for some time now. It seems to me that it uses racism as a sword to prevent scrutiny of an odious moral and cultural relativity which has led it to fail to make any distinction between the liberal and the illiberal, between the democratic and the authoritarian, between the egalitarian and the misogynist, between the socially liberal and the homophobe, between the tolerant and the intolerant.
Labour has been living on the moral credit of its past fights against intolerance. Recent events have shown how empty that bank of moral credit now really is.
Can't you see that what you're doing is exactly what the anti Semitic Labour councillors are doing? If you think the Rochdale rapists tell us something about how 2nd generation Pakistanis behave how can you complain when those people unfairly tarred with the same brush do the same to Jews because of the actions of the Israelis? Isn't your racial stereotyping the very essence of racism?
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes.
You sound as though you are foaming at the mouth. Everyone who has been charged with a crime should be brought to a court and at their trial they should be given the benefit of the doubt, whoever they are and whatever the alleged crime is. There are no exceptions.
John_N4, well done for putting the appalling Cyclefree in her place. There's some serious high horses on this site that don't match up to the level of knowledge or understanding required to ride them.
John_N4, well done for putting the appalling Cyclefree in her place. There's some serious high horses on this site that don't match up to the level of knowledge or understanding required to ride them.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
The thugs of the "Community Security Trust" work closely with the Board of Deputies of British Jews - they are effectively part of the Zionist structure in Britain, as are the krav maga groups. Their commitment to painting Zionism (which is an organisation) as "protective" of the Jews is non-negotiable. Have you heard of the Shomrim, the Jewish police, who operate in parts of North London? They claim to have a faster response time than the British police. They also have access to video footage from shopping areas that the British police don't.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
Apologists for Labours Anti Semitic members are now forming an orderly queue..I often wondered where Hitler recruited his willing Executioners..it would appear to be easy..just feed the idiots the propaganda for a few years..dehumanise the subjects and bingo..let loose the dogs of war..
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes.
You sound as though you are foaming at the mouth. Everyone who has been charged with a crime should be brought to a court and at their trial they should be given the benefit of the doubt, whoever they are and whatever the alleged crime is. There are no exceptions.
Er, yes. The presumption of innocence is a point I have made on this site rather more often than you. And one - the law being my profession - these past 30 years, that I understand a good deal better than you or the inaptly named Mr/Miss Wiseman.
I do not give those who have been convicted of such crimes the benefit of any doubt. If you had read my post rather more carefully you would have seen that people were not being charged because they were being given the benefit of the doubt based on their membership of a particular community. You can read about this if you're really interested in the facts in the various official reports.
Can't you see that what you're doing is exactly what the anti Semitic Labour councillors are doing? If you think the Rochdale rapists tell us something about how 2nd generation Pakistanis behave how can you complain when those people unfairly tarred with the same brush do the same to Jews because of the actions of the Israelis? Isn't your racial stereotyping the very essence of racism?
Where to start with you, Roger.
To say that there are fundamental problems with a whole culture, which in its current actual mainstream expression (not the best historical or best theoretical interpretation) has a homophobic, misogynistic and intolerant core, is not racist if it is factually accurate. To assume that this applies to every individual and hence to treat all individuals somehow connection or identified with that culture as being that way, regardless of their personal beliefs and actions, well that would be racist.
But we will only make things worse for society if Jews, Christians, atheists and other members of society cannot say certain aspects of Islam, as currently expressed by mainstream adherents in location X, are incompatible with our society's values, basic rights and tolerance. Problems that are not allowed to be named cannot be solved.
Apologists for Labours Anti Semitic members are now forming an orderly queue..I often wondered where Hitler recruited his willing Executioners..it would appear to be easy..just feed the idiots the propaganda for a few years..dehumanise the subjects and bingo..let loose the dogs of war..
You appear to be quoting me below. But I have not said what you have put me down as saying. You have, I think?
When I was growing up in the 1970s there were no guards outside synagogues. There are now. This has been a recent phenomenon. And an unwelcome one.
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes. It is relevant for us to know this. It is, of course, not OK to assume that all people with that background behave in that way but pretending as, for too long, we did that it it had nothing to do with it led to great pain and suffering being inflicted on the most vulnerable. And I cannot forgive those who, in the name of some idiotic multicultural creed, sought to shut down argument about and investigation into grotesque crimes against children because it might point a finger of blame against the cultural and religious attitudes of a particular group from whom one political party in particular derived votes.
You can express your view about the Israeli government. But you do not speak for all Jews which is what you were claiming to do.
I don't think Labour has been in the vanguard of the fight against racism for some time now. It seems to me that it uses racism as a sword to prevent scrutiny of an odious moral and cultural relativity which has led it to fail to make any distinction between the liberal and the illiberal, between the democratic and the authoritarian, between the egalitarian and the misogynist, between the socially liberal and the homophobe, between the tolerant and the intolerant.
Labour has been living on the moral credit of its past fights against intolerance. Recent events have shown how empty that bank of moral credit now really is.
Can't you see that what you're doing is exactly what the anti Semitic Labour councillors are doing? If you think the Rochdale rapists tell us something about how 2nd generation Pakistanis behave how can you complain when those people unfairly tarred with the same brush do the same to Jews because of the actions of the Israelis? Isn't your racial stereotyping the very essence of racism?
Did you miss this bit of my post - "It is, of course, not OK to assume that all people with that background behave in that way"?
The very opposite of stereotyping, I'd have thought.
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes.
You sound as though you are foaming at the mouth. Everyone who has been charged with a crime should be brought to a court and at their trial they should be given the benefit of the doubt, whoever they are and whatever the alleged crime is. There are no exceptions.
Should? be charged ... but there seems to be a great mismatch between the numbers charged and both the number of victims and the number of alleged offenders.
"Everyone who has been charged with a crime should be brought to a court."
I think you're missing the point there. We'd all agree with that but it depends on the appropriate authorities not averting their eyes. And the Rotherham enquiry had no doubts that they did.
Kipling had it about right ... "Watch the wall my darling while the gentlemen go by."
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
The thugs of the "Community Security Trust" work closely with the Board of Deputies of British Jews - they are effectively part of the Zionist structure in Britain, as are the krav maga groups. Their commitment to painting Zionism (which is an organisation) as "protective" of the Jews is non-negotiable. Have you heard of the Shomrim, the Jewish police, who operate in parts of North London? They claim to have a faster response time than the British police. They also have access to video footage from shopping areas that the British police don't.
Again, all of this is easily verifiable.
What! Jews actually have the nerve to defend themselves; how appalling.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
Yes, why don't the BBC give it some coverage?
You might like to consider that there are other news outlets than the Beeb.
You appear to be quoting me below. But I have not said what you have put me down as saying. You have, I think?
When I was growing up in the 1970s there were no guards outside synagogues. There are now. This has been a recent phenomenon. And an unwelcome one.
Re Rochdale and elsewhere: I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt. There was ample evidence in case after case and official report after another that the cultural background of the defendants played a part in their atrocious crimes. It is relevant for us to know this. It is, of course, not OK to assume that all people with that background behave in that way but pretending as, for too long, we did that it it had nothing to do with it led to great pain and suffering being inflicted on the most vulnerable. And I cannot forgive those who, in the name of some idiotic multicultural creed, sought to shut down argument about and investigation into grotesque crimes against children because it might point a finger of blame against the cultural and religious attitudes of a particular group from whom one political party in particular derived votes.
You can express your view about the Israeli government. But you do not speak for all Jews which is what you were claiming to do.
I don't think Labour has been in the vanguard of the fight against racism for some time now. It seems to me that it uses racism as a sword to prevent scrutiny of an odious moral and cultural relativity which has led it to fail to make any distinction between the liberal and the illiberal, between the democratic and the authoritarian, between the egalitarian and the misogynist, between the socially liberal and the homophobe, between the tolerant and the intolerant.
Labour has been living on the moral credit of its past fights against intolerance. Recent events have shown how empty that bank of moral credit now really is.
Can't you see that what you're doing is exactly what the anti Semitic Labour councillors are doing? If you think the Rochdale rapists tell us something about how 2nd generation Pakistanis behave how can you complain when those people unfairly tarred with the same brush do the same to Jews because of the actions of the Israelis? Isn't your racial stereotyping the very essence of racism?
Did you miss this bit of my post - "It is, of course, not OK to assume that all people with that background behave in that way"?
The very opposite of stereotyping, I'd have thought.
Its a tactic of all apologists for muslim racism and bigotry on this site to answer the point they think you made, rather than the one you actually made
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
You can also see churches with bouncers outside, and many schools now have security guards. Welcome to Britain 2016.
I'm amazed at the holes being dug by those defending crass comments which have resulted in suspension from the Labour Party. I'm even more amazed at the careless attacks on Cyclefree, who, as far as I can see, weighs each word in her posts more carefully than entire posts by most others (myself frequently included).
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
I'm surprised at the skepticism about security guards! Anybody who lives near a Jewish school (at least in the London area) will be aware of the security measures around them, too.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
I'm related by marriage to Jews, from North London coincidentally, they talk about anti semitism in an almost embarrassed way, as if they're resigned to it. I made the point the other day that the majority of people in the UK have absolutely no knowledge of this sort of thing and you are correct, it is shameful.
Need I ask who's responsible having considered it.
I don't know who's responsible for all the attacks. Not all the perpetrators are caught. And there is anti-Semitism from some of the more idiotic far right groups. Anti-Semitism is not exclusive to the left nor to some Muslims.
But there was an EU report into this a few years ago which was suppressed because it suggested that much (if not all) of the attacks came from Muslim perpetrators. (The report was not specifically focused on Britain.) Rather than face up to the reality, the authorities ignored it and so the problem and the fear have got worse.
And rather than simply have attacks - bad as these are - we now have Jewish children (Toulouse), supermarkets (Paris), synagogues (Denmark), concert halls (Paris), journalists (the only woman killed in the Charlie Hebdo attack was the Jewish one, the other women were spared) deliberately targeted for murder.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Not sure if this is a spoof, but if it is, well done
Not a spoof, although a spoofer would say that. For real, we are having a drink tomorrow and the paparazzi will be there. How do I upload? Or do I link from Google drive or something?
"The majority of those behind the abuse were described as Asian, while the victims were young white girls. Yet the report found that councillors failed to engage with the town's Pakistani-heritage community during the inquiry period. Some councillors were said to have hoped the issue would "go away", thinking it was a "one-off problem".The report said several staff members were afraid they would be labelled racist if they identified the race of the perpetrators, while others said they were instructed by their managers not to do so. Several councillors interviewed believed highlighting the race element would "give oxygen" to racist ideas and threaten community cohesion."
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
You can also see churches with bouncers outside, and many schools now have security guards. Welcome to Britain 2016.
Are you seriously telling me there are Christian Churches in Britain that are protecting themselves from muslim agression?????
I'm amazed at the holes being dug by those defending crass comments which have resulted in suspension from the Labour Party. I'm even more amazed at the careless attacks on Cyclefree, who, as far as I can see, weighs each word in her posts more carefully than entire posts by most others (myself frequently included).
Apologists for Labours Anti Semitic members are now forming an orderly queue..I often wondered where Hitler recruited his willing Executioners..it would appear to be easy..just feed the idiots the propaganda for a few years..dehumanise the subjects and bingo..let loose the dogs of war..
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
Maybe he's now so good at holding a pint, he'll be holding his favourite Bollywood DVD in his other hand?
The presumption of innocence is a point I have made on this site rather more often than you. And one - the law being my profession - these past 30 years, that I understand a good deal better than you or the inaptly named Mr/Miss Wiseman.
I have met lawyers and non-lawyers who have an excellent understanding of such principles and other lawyers and non-lawyers who haven't got a clue.
Benefit of the doubt and presumption of innocence are two different principles anyway.
I do not give those who have been convicted of such crimes the benefit of any doubt. If you had read my post rather more carefully you would have seen that people were not being charged because they were being given the benefit of the doubt based on their membership of a particular community. You can read about this if you're really interested in the facts in the various official reports.
You said "I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt". Are you saying you meant to refer only to those who have been convicted of such crimes? In that case, they should already have been presumed to be innocent and then had the prosecution case proved against them so that the jury were satisfied that they were sure of their guilt. So what "doubt" are you talking about?
As for Muslim criminals in Rotherham avoiding prosecution for years because the authorities absurdly thought that not bringing them to justice was preferable to not upsetting Muslim sensibilities, yes, we all know that that occurred. (Meanwhile in Stoke Newington, illegal Jewish schools flourish.) That was nothing to do with people wrongly giving them the benefit of the doubt. They should have been charged and tried...and, as with anyone who is in that position, yes they should have been given the benefit of any reasonable doubt. Unfortunately they weren't charged and tried when they should have been. What "doubt" issue are you raising?
Ok, let's get rid of some of the stupid remarks here. What will happen if or when the countries surrounding Israel attack? The Samson Solution. Israel has between 100 and 300 thermo nuclear weapons and as a final decision, they will launch. Every Arab major city will become a basin of glass. Even the fundamentalist Islamists are fully aware of this, and so do their paymasters in Riyadh.
As to stealing property from Palestinians, beating them up on the street and so on. Yes, there are certain sections of Israeli society that really do these things, although you won't hear it in the UK media. There are Jewish fundamentalists, mainly funded by right wing Christian Fundamentalists in the US.
So, you are a Palestinian family living in Jerusalem. Your house and surrounding ground has been in the family for many generations, when along comes some of the Jewish fundamentalists who believe that all of Israel was given by God to them. They dispute the ownership and it goes to court. The Palestinians must prove ownership, normally by documents issued back to the 1930's. No records or documents = eviction. (For interest, how many people reading this, have the original documents of their own homes from the 30's?). So if the Palestinian family proves ownership, then they will be "encouraged" to sell up and leave.
Now, most Israelis are embarrassed by these activities, but these small fundamentalists groups in Israel and the US are well in with the top politicians in both countries who tend to overlook the activities.
Then again, like most countries where a lot of cash seems to float around, most of which some how goes into a small number of bank accounts, not necessarily in the same country, a small number of self serving elite of families comes into being. Sharon, before his heart attack and falling into coma, was under investigation as to how he could afford an expensive house and ranch. The last president is in prison. Netanyahu is under investigation. When a cartel of 3 families raised the price of common foodstuffs (eg. Yoghurt) the common Israelis took to the streets in mass demonstrations. There have been 2 cases recently where ex-IDF members set themselves on fire due to lack of care support and money. There are a lot of unhappy people in Israel just now.
A lot of Israeli people watched the various Arab springs with interest, there must be some who are praying that it doesn't give them any ideas.
The official amount donated by the US to Israel is $3 billion. As far as I know, there is no official amount known of private donations, but it is probably well in excess of the amount from the US government.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
I've been searched in Stamford Hill but not in any Synagogue in North Manchester where my sister lives. A sign of the times I guess. But I've also been searched going into St Marks in Venice and the Gaudi Cathedral in Barcelona and you now cant enter an art gallery in France without having your bag searched
If all these things are so easy to prove on a Google search, why do you not include links to your sources?
Admittedly, as I know from painful experience in trying to coach your lone supporter in the crimes and disastrous failures of Communism under Stalin, providing evidence is one thing, getting people to read it is quite another.
However, if you provided links that are not from neo-Nazi blogs (important caveat that) it would bolster your case somewhat.
I'm not sure if it is @cyclefree or @roger saying there are guards outside synagogues but is this accurate? If so what on earth is going on and what are they guarding against?
It is me and I have seen it outside two synagogues near where I live and the Jewish cultural centre in North London. I have also taken my children to barmitzvahs where there were guards and we needed our bags searched, something I have never encountered at any other religious service anywhere in the world.
What are they guarding against? Well look at the increases in recent years on Jews and Jewish places of worship, entertainment, graves etc. Here is a minority population which has reasons to be fearful of attacks from those who wish it ill. I - for one - find that shameful, utterly shameful, and unacceptable in 21st century Britain.
My father, a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2, and a doctor was in Belsen working at the end of the war to try and save who he could. He told me it was the worst sight he had ever seen and he hoped that never again would such things happen. And yet barely streets from where we grew up in peaceful quiet North London Jewish people, many of them descended from Holocaust survivors or those who managed to get out of Germany in time (as my best friend's parents did) are having to go to places of worship and entertainment past guards.
Britain in 2016. It is shaming.
This deserves more high profile coverage. The sight of people being searched before Barmitzvahs would make a powerful image on television.
You can also see churches with bouncers outside, and many schools now have security guards. Welcome to Britain 2016.
Are you seriously telling me there are Christian Churches in Britain that are protecting themselves from muslim agression?????
We don't need any more airplanes going into Heathrow and approaching it over the Capital city..This is an amazing security danger area..an incident just waiting to happen..apart from the massive increase in pollution and congestion West of the City
Ok, let's get rid of some of the stupid remarks here. What will happen if or when the countries surrounding Israel attack? The Samson Solution. Israel has between 100 and 300 thermo nuclear weapons and as a final decision, they will launch. Every Arab major city will become a basin of glass. Even the fundamentalist Islamists are fully aware of this, and so do their paymasters in Riyadh.
As to stealing property from Palestinians, beating them up on the street and so on. Yes, there are certain sections of Israeli society that really do these things, although you won't hear it in the UK media. There are Jewish fundamentalists, mainly funded by right wing Christian Fundamentalists in the US.
So, you are a Palestinian family living in Jerusalem. Your house and surrounding ground has been in the family for many generations, when along comes some of the Jewish fundamentalists who believe that all of Israel was given by God to them. They dispute the ownership and it goes to court. The Palestinians must prove ownership, normally by documents issued back to the 1930's. No records or documents = eviction. (For interest, how many people reading this, have the original documents of their own homes from the 30's?). So if the Palestinian family proves ownership, then they will be "encouraged" to sell up and leave.
Now, most Israelis are embarrassed by these activities, but these small fundamentalists groups in Israel and the US are well in with the top politicians in both countries who tend to overlook the activities.
Then again, like most countries where a lot of cash seems to float around, most of which some how goes into a small number of bank accounts, not necessarily in the same country, a small number of self serving elite of families comes into being. Sharon, before his heart attack and falling into coma, was under investigation as to how he could afford an expensive house and ranch. The last president is in prison. Netanyahu is under investigation. When a cartel of 3 families raised the price of common foodstuffs (eg. Yoghurt) the common Israelis took to the streets in mass demonstrations. There have been 2 cases recently where ex-IDF members set themselves on fire due to lack of care support and money. There are a lot of unhappy people in Israel just now.
A lot of Israeli people watched the various Arab springs with interest, there must be some who are praying that it doesn't give them any ideas.
The official amount donated by the US to Israel is $3 billion. As far as I know, there is no official amount known of private donations, but it is probably well in excess of the amount from the US government. </blockquot
Whether this is true or a product of your fevered brain, I don;t know. What I do not is that even of every word is true, it still does not justify a comparison with the Nazis.
The presumption of innocence is a point I have made on this site rather more often than you. And one - the law being my profession - these past 30 years, that I understand a good deal better than you or the inaptly named Mr/Miss Wiseman.
I have met lawyers and non-lawyers who have an excellent understanding of such principles and other lawyers and non-lawyers who haven't got a clue.
Benefit of the doubt and presumption of innocence are two different principles anyway.
I do not give those who have been convicted of such crimes the benefit of any doubt. If you had read my post rather more carefully you would have seen that people were not being charged because they were being given the benefit of the doubt based on their membership of a particular community. You can read about this if you're really interested in the facts in the various official reports.
You said "I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt". Are you saying you meant to refer only to those who have been convicted of such crimes? In that case, they should already have been presumed to be innocent and then had the prosecution case proved against them so that the jury were satisfied that they were sure of their guilt. So what "doubt" are you talking about?
As for Muslim criminals in Rotherham avoiding prosecution for years because the authorities absurdly thought that not bringing them to justice was preferable to not upsetting Muslim sensibilities, yes, we all know that that occurred. (Meanwhile in Stoke Newington, illegal Jewish schools flourish.) That was nothing to do with people wrongly giving them the benefit of the doubt. They should have been charged and tried...and, as with anyone who is in that position, yes they should have been given the benefit of any reasonable doubt. Unfortunately they weren't charged and tried when they should have been. What "doubt" issue are you raising?
Your thinking is all over the place.
If you want to understand suggest you read the post from @Roger to which I was responding. He was making a point about giving people the benefit of the doubt - and not in any legal sense.
My thinking is clear. I make no comment on your understanding.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
Maybe he's now so good at holding a pint, he'll be holding his favourite Bollywood DVD in his other hand?
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
The EU report referenced below on Anti-Semitism can be found here - http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/euredata.htm. It dates back to 2003, a sign perhaps that problems which are ignored will only explode later in more virulent forms.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
And when have we seen Khan hold a pint?
Not doing something is rather different from doing it phonily and crappily.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
And when have we seen Khan hold a pint?
Not doing something is rather different from doing it phonily and crappily.
I think holding a pint at all is the most important correlation with popularity for politicians. Queen Mum was an expert apparently. Farage is supreme too.
We don't need any more airplanes going into Heathrow and approaching it over the Capital city..This is an amazing security danger area..an incident just waiting to happen..apart from the massive increase in pollution and congestion West of the City
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
And when have we seen Khan hold a pint?
That's a "dog whistle" comment, like the Sun's front page on the eve of the last GE.
Apologists for Labours Anti Semitic members are now forming an orderly queue..I often wondered where Hitler recruited his willing Executioners..it would appear to be easy..just feed the idiots the propaganda for a few years..dehumanise the subjects and bingo..let loose the dogs of war..
I am sure he would have recruited well from the ranks of the latter day Monday Club.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
Oh dear.
'Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges.'
Apologists for Labours Anti Semitic members are now forming an orderly queue..I often wondered where Hitler recruited his willing Executioners..it would appear to be easy..just feed the idiots the propaganda for a few years..dehumanise the subjects and bingo..let loose the dogs of war..
I am sure he would have recruited well from the ranks of the latter day Monday Club.
OK, I will have a photo of Zac Goldsmeith holding a pint properly by tomorrow night. I just don't know how to upload it. Can someone explain. Thank you
Will he also be reading out a list of his favourite Bollywood films (from an autocue naturlich)?
And when have we seen Khan hold a pint?
That's a "dog whistle" comment, like the Sun's front page on the eve of the last GE.
I had dinner last night with another right wing friend, who was utterly contemptuous over the mayoral options:
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
RobD How many other Capital Cities around the world has a jetliner cruising across the centre of it every 90 seconds..all day and every day....I can wait while you google..
I had dinner last night with another right wing friend, who was utterly contemptuous over the mayoral options:
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
Tell him make sure he draws a flaccid penis.
Drawing an erect penis next to a particular candidate's name might be construed as indicating a clear preference for that candidate.
I had dinner last night with another right wing friend, who was utterly contemptuous over the mayoral options:
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
I'm pretty sure gonorrhoea is preferable to syphilis (I'm told).
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
I have just checked . The wearing of the Star of David in Germany became compulsory in September 1941.
RobD How many other Capital Cities around the world has a jetliner cruising across the centre of it every 90 seconds..all day and every day....I can wait while you google..
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
There were never any ghettos in Germany. They were further east in Poland, Latvia and Czechoslovakia.
Yes, Jews were forced to wear yellow stars before the war. Not sure when but certainly by 1938. It is also reasonable to point out theNazis hesitated about going further is because they feared the German population would react badly. When they marched into Austria, mass humiliations and confiscations of Jewish property followed. From the very first hours of the war, Jews were murdered in Poland.
One crucial point about the difference between the Nazis and Israels is also that the Palestinians have the means of fighting back, and use them. Of course they are not nearly as effective as the IDF's weapons, but thus far exceed any resistance the German Jews could have put up.
The problem with drawing such comparisons is that it merely allows Israel to ignore such criticism on the basis it is crass, ill-informed and racist. The further problem is as we are seeing with Livingstone, they are often correct.
RobD How many other Capital Cities around the world has a jetliner cruising across the centre of it every 90 seconds..all day and every day....I can wait while you google..
Afraid I don't know the exact number, but I did say cities and not capitals. I've had some pretty nice views of cities while landing in the US.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Wow - - don't you realize that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is a really crap tactic and in utterly bad taste.
I had dinner last night with another right wing friend, who was utterly contemptuous over the mayoral options:
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
Tell him make sure he draws a flaccid penis.
Drawing an erect penis next to a particular candidate's name might be construed as indicating a clear preference for that candidate.
SO we are nailed on for a shock Zac victory then Dixie?
No idea. Except to say I heard a legend with the initials L.C. say last week...'everything is going to plan.' I just don't know what that plan is! because it is a low interest election, there isn't enough quantification. But if the Doughnut turns out, then maybe.
I had dinner last night with another right wing friend, who was utterly contemptuous over the mayoral options:
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
Tell him make sure he draws a flaccid penis.
Drawing an erect penis next to a particular candidate's name might be construed as indicating a clear preference for that candidate.
RobD How many other Capital Cities around the world has a jetliner cruising across the centre of it every 90 seconds..all day and every day....I can wait while you google..
six
And lest we forget the magnificent approach to Kai Tak. Not so great for the locals though.
Just be grateful they aren't this low in central London:
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
I have just checked . The wearing of the Star of David in Germany became compulsory in September 1941.
Not convinced, but can't prove it because all my reference books are at school! What's your source?
SO we are nailed on for a shock Zac victory then Dixie?
No idea. Except to say I heard a legend with the initials L.C. say last week...'everything is going to plan.' I just don't know what that plan is! because it is a low interest election, there isn't enough quantification. But if the Doughnut turns out, then maybe.
SO we are nailed on for a shock Zac victory then Dixie?
No idea. Except to say I heard a legend with the initials L.C. say last week...'everything is going to plan.' I just don't know what that plan is! because it is a low interest election, there isn't enough quantification. But if the Doughnut turns out, then maybe.
Let's hope for your sake he does a better job than he did in Canada.
RobD I too have enjoyed landing in some large cities in America and around the world..but none were capital Cities,as strategic as London, nor were they as densely populated as London.
I don't see how that tweet is Anti - Semitic. Whoever sent it is clearly Anti-Nazi and is condemning Israel for behaving in the same way. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold and is in no way Anti- Semitic. Basic freedom of speech surely demands that to be so.
And your evidence of extremination camps run by Israel is where, exactly?
It is like the comparison Jenny Jones made between the Met and the Syrian Secref police - utterly bonkers because someone has believed their own fairy stories.
The making of the dishonest comparison IS the antisemitism. And if they cannot see it it is the casual antisemitism.
But comparisons with Nazi Germany do not have to be limited to the Holocaust - which is rather what you are implying. Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
> Some might reasonably argue that Netanyahu's treatment of Palestinians is at least as bad as Nazi treatment of the Jews pre-1939.
Oh, right, because of course that's what these people are arguing. Definitely. Obviously.
Where are all the Palestinians forced to wear Crescent badges, all the time, like Jews were forced to wear the Star of David in Nazi Germany? Your arguments are a nonsense @White_Rabbit.
Were Jews required to wear the Star of David pre -1939? Later on yes.Beyond that I would suggest that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and the murder of innocent civillians is not so very different to the harassment the Jews were receiving via Kristallnacht etc in November 1938. I am not aware that there were ghettos in Germany pre-World War2.
Justin, stop digging deeper. Jews were forces to wear a special badge from 1934.
I have just checked . The wearing of the Star of David in Germany became compulsory in September 1941.
Not convinced, but can't prove it because all my reference books are at school! What's your source?
SO we are nailed on for a shock Zac victory then Dixie?
No idea. Except to say I heard a legend with the initials L.C. say last week...'everything is going to plan.' I just don't know what that plan is! because it is a low interest election, there isn't enough quantification. But if the Doughnut turns out, then maybe.
Let's hope for your sake he does a better job than he did in Canada.
That does stick in my mind. His mood seems to be the same as the GE though and I didn't believe him then, but was proved right. Although he is not involved this time round, he is viewing from a distance.
The other possibility is that it was 1934 when they had to have their identity cards stamped with the Star of David. That was quite an early one as I recall.
The edict requiring the wearing of the badge was 1941. There were earlier local instances of different forms of public visual signs for Jews - for example from 1938, German Jews were required to identify in their shop windows that they were a Jewish Business. It was not until after the invasion of Poland that the first badges were required to be worn on the person.
Of course, the 'outing' of Jews in Germany started well before that, culminating in Kristallnacht which as 9-10 November 1938.
Comments
Need I ask who's responsible having considered it.
Again, all of this is easily verifiable.
https://twitter.com/DavidJo52951945/status/727130879982718976
I do not give those who have been convicted of such crimes the benefit of any doubt. If you had read my post rather more carefully you would have seen that people were not being charged because they were being given the benefit of the doubt based on their membership of a particular community. You can read about this if you're really interested in the facts in the various official reports.
To say that there are fundamental problems with a whole culture, which in its current actual mainstream expression (not the best historical or best theoretical interpretation) has a homophobic, misogynistic and intolerant core, is not racist if it is factually accurate. To assume that this applies to every individual and hence to treat all individuals somehow connection or identified with that culture as being that way, regardless of their personal beliefs and actions, well that would be racist.
But we will only make things worse for society if Jews, Christians, atheists and other members of society cannot say certain aspects of Islam, as currently expressed by mainstream adherents in location X, are incompatible with our society's values, basic rights and tolerance. Problems that are not allowed to be named cannot be solved.
The very opposite of stereotyping, I'd have thought.
"Everyone who has been charged with a crime should be brought to a court."
I think you're missing the point there. We'd all agree with that but it depends on the appropriate authorities not averting their eyes. And the Rotherham enquiry had no doubts that they did.
Kipling had it about right ... "Watch the wall my darling while the gentlemen go by."
I'm amazed at the holes being dug by those defending crass comments which have resulted in suspension from the Labour Party. I'm even more amazed at the careless attacks on Cyclefree, who, as far as I can see, weighs each word in her posts more carefully than entire posts by most others (myself frequently included).
A useful link: https://cst.org.uk/about-cst
But there was an EU report into this a few years ago which was suppressed because it suggested that much (if not all) of the attacks came from Muslim perpetrators. (The report was not specifically focused on Britain.) Rather than face up to the reality, the authorities ignored it and so the problem and the fear have got worse.
And rather than simply have attacks - bad as these are - we now have Jewish children (Toulouse), supermarkets (Paris), synagogues (Denmark), concert halls (Paris), journalists (the only woman killed in the Charlie Hebdo attack was the Jewish one, the other women were spared) deliberately targeted for murder.
"The majority of those behind the abuse were described as Asian, while the victims were young white girls. Yet the report found that councillors failed to engage with the town's Pakistani-heritage community during the inquiry period.
Some councillors were said to have hoped the issue would "go away", thinking it was a "one-off problem".The report said several staff members were afraid they would be labelled racist if they identified the race of the perpetrators, while others said they were instructed by their managers not to do so. Several councillors interviewed believed highlighting the race element would "give oxygen" to racist ideas and threaten community cohesion."
Obviously that Jay woman is a racist?
Who wins; who loses?
Benefit of the doubt and presumption of innocence are two different principles anyway. You said "I do not give rapists and child abusers the benefit of the doubt". Are you saying you meant to refer only to those who have been convicted of such crimes? In that case, they should already have been presumed to be innocent and then had the prosecution case proved against them so that the jury were satisfied that they were sure of their guilt. So what "doubt" are you talking about?
As for Muslim criminals in Rotherham avoiding prosecution for years because the authorities absurdly thought that not bringing them to justice was preferable to not upsetting Muslim sensibilities, yes, we all know that that occurred. (Meanwhile in Stoke Newington, illegal Jewish schools flourish.) That was nothing to do with people wrongly giving them the benefit of the doubt. They should have been charged and tried...and, as with anyone who is in that position, yes they should have been given the benefit of any reasonable doubt. Unfortunately they weren't charged and tried when they should have been. What "doubt" issue are you raising?
Your thinking is all over the place.
As to stealing property from Palestinians, beating them up on the street and so on. Yes, there are certain sections of Israeli society that really do these things, although you won't hear it in the UK media. There are Jewish fundamentalists, mainly funded by right wing Christian Fundamentalists in the US.
So, you are a Palestinian family living in Jerusalem. Your house and surrounding ground has been in the family for many generations, when along comes some of the Jewish fundamentalists who believe that all of Israel was given by God to them. They dispute the ownership and it goes to court. The Palestinians must prove ownership, normally by documents issued back to the 1930's. No records or documents = eviction. (For interest, how many people reading this, have the original documents of their own homes from the 30's?). So if the Palestinian family proves ownership, then they will be "encouraged" to sell up and leave.
Now, most Israelis are embarrassed by these activities, but these small fundamentalists groups in Israel and the US are well in with the top politicians in both countries who tend to overlook the activities.
Then again, like most countries where a lot of cash seems to float around, most of which some how goes into a small number of bank accounts, not necessarily in the same country, a small number of self serving elite of families comes into being. Sharon, before his heart attack and falling into coma, was under investigation as to how he could afford an expensive house and ranch. The last president is in prison. Netanyahu is under investigation. When a cartel of 3 families raised the price of common foodstuffs (eg. Yoghurt) the common Israelis took to the streets in mass demonstrations. There have been 2 cases recently where ex-IDF members set themselves on fire due to lack of care support and money. There are a lot of unhappy people in Israel just now.
A lot of Israeli people watched the various Arab springs with interest, there must be some who are praying that it doesn't give them any ideas.
The official amount donated by the US to Israel is $3 billion. As far as I know, there is no official amount known of private donations, but it is probably well in excess of the amount from the US government.
If all these things are so easy to prove on a Google search, why do you not include links to your sources?
Admittedly, as I know from painful experience in trying to coach your lone supporter in the crimes and disastrous failures of Communism under Stalin, providing evidence is one thing, getting people to read it is quite another.
However, if you provided links that are not from neo-Nazi blogs (important caveat that) it would bolster your case somewhat.
My thinking is clear. I make no comment on your understanding.
'Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges.'
http://tinyurl.com/hlx9zbh
"It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea."
He was considering voting UKIP (he's a Brexiter), but said that having met the candidate, he is now going to spoil his paper "with an enormous picture of a phallus".
(He actually used a different word, but this is a family site.)
Drawing an erect penis next to a particular candidate's name might be construed as indicating a clear preference for that candidate.
Yes, Jews were forced to wear yellow stars before the war. Not sure when but certainly by 1938. It is also reasonable to point out theNazis hesitated about going further is because they feared the German population would react badly. When they marched into Austria, mass humiliations and confiscations of Jewish property followed. From the very first hours of the war, Jews were murdered in Poland.
One crucial point about the difference between the Nazis and Israels is also that the Palestinians have the means of fighting back, and use them. Of course they are not nearly as effective as the IDF's weapons, but thus far exceed any resistance the German Jews could have put up.
The problem with drawing such comparisons is that it merely allows Israel to ignore such criticism on the basis it is crass, ill-informed and racist. The further problem is as we are seeing with Livingstone, they are often correct.
A Jew in Bradford
http://www.politico.eu/article/galloway-bradford-elections-uk-ge2015/
Reporter says he was punched at George Galloway campaign event for being Jewish - and MP says he deliberately provoked it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070471/Reporter-says-punched-George-Galloway-campaign-event-Jewish-MP-says-deliberately-provoked-it.html
Matter of time before we reach April 1945. My money is on Daodao, but Roger and JWisemann are good each way bets.
I keep asking why now, what makes them happy to crawl out from under their rocks now?
"75 million Turks on course for visa-free travel in EU, despite not meeting key targets in refugee swap deal"
Another nail in the REMAIN referendum coffin.
Just be grateful they aren't this low in central London:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KaiTak_CX_Boeing_747_Final_Approach.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge#Nazi_Europe