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  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    chestnut said:

    By 'business' we mean multinational corporations?

    image

    We need to perhaps distinguish between private and public opinions of executives here. Here again is the YouGov poll from the FT from the other day showing a relatively even split of opinion among the 600-odd executives polled: 49 remain 42 leave


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/324c86ca-0705-11e6-9b51-0fb5e65703ce.html#axzz4629s5rDr
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767
    Wow Austrian FPO have just had a mammoth first round vote.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    so on that basis are you now saying Remain will lose ?
    It's HMS Anglosphere which Obama has holed below the waterline.....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767
    Omnium said:

    Libya won't become what we want it to be. We really do have to man up and kick the shit out of people who are entirely innocent. Clearly that's not a good thing, but it's what we do.

    The people that we don't massacre in Libya will be well placed to form a nice new shiny nation.

    Excellent, then we wont be at the back of the queue any more.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,355

    The failure to make a convincing economic case lost the referendum.
    And, if the failure to make an economic case is all that stands between victory and defeat, then that leaves the Union hanging by a thread.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,059
    chestnut said:

    By 'business' we mean multinational corporations?

    image

    I am the epitome of the digital entrepreneur and small business person. I agree there is a lot of support for leaving the EU.

    But that is not the same as support for leaving the EEA. In my fund management business, going to EEA would mean... absolutely no negative consequences whatsoever. Going CO, would almost certainly mean we'd need to open an EU office to sell product out of, or using a local agent who took a third of our revenues.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sean_F said:

    And, if the failure to make an economic case is all that stands between victory and defeat, then that leaves the Union hanging by a thread.

    Not really.

    The next 5 years is crunch time for the SNP. They won't call another referendum they can't win, and people are already starting to question the thing they are doing, or not doing.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767

    It's HMS Anglosphere which Obama has holed below the waterline.....
    Lol, I was rather under the impression it was HMS Conservative Party .

    Dave is really pissing off his own members. Now they will start to look for somewhere else to go.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    JackW said:

    McDonnell might be the "sharp suit" but he's cut from the same cloth as Jezza.

    If Jezza is Aston Villa then McDonnell is Newcastle Utd - Neither vying for the honours.

    Edit - Sorry for the relegation analogy given your handle !!
    Yes Jack non league status was confirmed on my City yesterday.
    It has never really been great at football or rugby.
    Does have a lovely racecourse .
    It is a lovely city to live in, and luckily for me , I live on a hill , so no flooding problems.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    RobD said:

    For someone you publicly claimed to ignore you sure do bang on about him.
    Is it possible to avoid the pap he posts ad infinitum
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Lol, I was rather under the impression it was HMS Conservative Party .

    Dave is really pissing off his own members. Now they will start to look for somewhere else to go.
    Those on here supporting IN for no other reason than Cameron does are going to be very sheepish at some stage in the next 6 months. Even if IN wins he is fatally discredited.

    That will be scant comfort to me, I want us to leave the EU, but careful what you wish for toadies. Remember the pics of Maggie crying in the back of the car?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    The failure to make a convincing economic case lost the referendum.
    Th economic lies from the establishment lost the referendum, they managed to scare enough old duffers that their pensions would disappear. Almost forgot the unions and ship workers who were told to vote No to save their jobs, not so Better Together now the chickens are coming home to roost.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    Th economic lies from the establishment lost the referendum, they managed to scare enough old duffers that their pensions would disappear. Almost forgot the unions and ship workers who were told to vote No to save their jobs, not so Better Together now the chickens are coming home to roost.
    Along with $110 $40 oil
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,355
    Scott_P said:

    Not really.

    The next 5 years is crunch time for the SNP. They won't call another referendum they can't win, and people are already starting to question the thing they are doing, or not doing.
    The SNP are heading for a landslide on May 5 th.
  • Those on here supporting IN for no other reason than Cameron does are going to be very sheepish at some stage in the next 6 months. Even if IN wins he is fatally discredited.
    Are Labour supporters really going to back a Cameron fronted campaign? I think not.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Dave is really pissing off his own members. Now they will start to look for somewhere else to go.
    Like they did after gay marriage?

    Then voted in a Conservative majority government?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sean_F said:

    The SNP are heading for a landslide on May 5 th.

    I know.

    A landslide of disappointed fans.

    Sturgeon is too scared to do anything that might upset them, so she will try not to do anything.

    Except the things she is already doing have already upset them.

    This, on Named Persons, is written by a supporter, and printed in the Nat onal...
    In this instance, when considering Named Person, I’m looking to our Nordic neighbours. Instead of a beacon of what could be, I’m seeing something I desperately don’t want. Scotland has to think hard about the implications of bringing the government into our family lives. And what could happen if that power is misused.
    http://www.thenational.scot/comment/vonny-moyes-where-is-the-line-between-child-protection-and-harmful-intrusion.16440
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    Scott_P said:

    Not really.

    The next 5 years is crunch time for the SNP. They won't call another referendum they can't win, and people are already starting to question the thing they are doing, or not doing.
    LOL, yes that will be why they are over 50% in the polls. We will see who is asked the questions in a few days.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Yorkcity said:

    Yes Jack non league status was confirmed on my City yesterday.
    It has never really been great at football or rugby.
    Does have a lovely racecourse .
    It is a lovely city to live in, and luckily for me , I live on a hill , so no flooding problems.
    I've visited York many times over the decades but not recently. Always enjoyed the city - A jewel in England's crown.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    Along with $110 $40 oil
    Oil had nothing to do with it
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,130
    Scott_P said:

    Not really.

    The next 5 years is crunch time for the SNP. They won't call another referendum they can't win, and people are already starting to question the thing they are doing, or not doing.
    They'll be different people from the same duffers & serial failures that have been questioning the thing they've been doing for the last 9 years?

    McTernan's taken over from Iain Martin as one of your go-to-guys, hasn't he?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/441959652742664192
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Wow Austrian FPO have just had a mammoth first round vote.

    Greetings from Budapest.
    What percentage? More of the old order collapsing in Europe. Interesting going round the Hungarian parliament yesterday. They still have a place for members to leave their long cigars outside the chamber if they wish!
    If I get time next week I'll have more on that address. Didn't realise that exaro news company sparta are linked to 788 790 Finchley Road. Make of that what you will.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Lol, I was rather under the impression it was HMS Conservative Party .

    Dave is really pissing off his own members. Now they will start to look for somewhere else to go.
    But where, Mr. Brooke, but where? UKIP once looked a hopeful resting resting place but now seems to have blown that. The Lib Dems are but a deranged Labour Light. I suspect that a majority of those Conservative supporters who have become disgusted by Cameron will simply drift into the can't be arsed to vote group.

    Speaking personally, I am thinking of joining the Conservative Party simply so that I can do my bit to keep that incompetant areshole Osborne away from the the leadership.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    Mr. W, and it has the splendid York Minster (and a statue of Constantine outside).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767

    Like they did after gay marriage?

    Then voted in a Conservative majority government?
    you can pile on the straws but at some stage the camel's back breaks.

    and since we are now effectively in a 2 party system the conservatives are sitting at circa 37% and not the 40+% of the 80s and 90s.

    So where have those Tory voters gone ? And how many more will they need to to lose to become minority - 1% ?

    Remembering of course that Dave will be gone next time.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Yorkcity said:

    Yes Jack non league status was confirmed on my City yesterday.
    It has never really been great at football or rugby.
    Does have a lovely racecourse .
    It is a lovely city to live in, and luckily for me , I live on a hill , so no flooding problems.
    Probably the most beautiful city in England. Who needs football anyway?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Sean_F said:

    And, if the failure to make an economic case is all that stands between victory and defeat, then that leaves the Union hanging by a thread.
    Making the economic case was a necessary, but not sufficient reason for independence. The SNP did well on the other matters, but fell at the first fence.

    LEAVE are repeating their mistake.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,095
    Sean_F said:

    The SNP are heading for a landslide on May 5 th.
    Soon as the oil price heads back over $100, bumpf.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767

    But where, Mr. Brooke, but where? UKIP once looked a hopeful resting resting place but now seems to have blown that. The Lib Dems are but a deranged Labour Light. I suspect that a majority of those Conservative supporters who have become disgusted by Cameron will simply drift into the can't be arsed to vote group.

    Speaking personally, I am thinking of joining the Conservative Party simply so that I can do my bit to keep that incompetant areshole Osborne away from the the leadership.
    The bits have yet to settle Mr L.

    By not voting the Cons task gets harder let alone voting for other parties,

    Post EUref as I say the bill has yet to be presented to Cameron and then the fun starts.

    Everything comes to he who waits.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    Mr. Llama, could be wrong but I think it's been said here before that you need to have been a member for X months to vote in leadership contests. Of course, the leadership vote might be some way off, but you may wish to find out for sure.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,767
    hunchman said:

    Greetings from Budapest.
    What percentage? More of the old order collapsing in Europe. Interesting going round the Hungarian parliament yesterday. They still have a place for members to leave their long cigars outside the chamber if they wish!
    If I get time next week I'll have more on that address. Didn't realise that exaro news company sparta are linked to 788 790 Finchley Road. Make of that what you will.
    37.3% next closest at 18%.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    Oil had nothing to do with it
    "Chickens coming home to roost"

    Who will believe the SNP's forecasts next time?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    RobD said:

    The article did state within 34 years, so the early ones don't really matter, although someone clearly made a mistake since the 1992 result was a loss of 402 seats.

    Perhaps they mean worst in 34 years in a non-general election year.
    The fact that the article failed to mention them does not mean that the earlier years'don't really matter'. It is simply a case that Local Govt was reorganised in the early 1970s and the former 3 year cycle became the 4 year cycle we still have today. The fact is that Labour made gains in 1956 , 1957 & 1958 which were at least partially reversed in 1959,1960 & 1961. Poor results in the latter two years did not prevent Labour winning the 1964 election.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    "Are Labour supporters really going to back a Cameron fronted campaign? I think not"
    TCP

    My brother is and all my friends are.
    Everyone I know who are Labour Supporter are in the remain camp.
    Even at work last week the only leave , were Conservative Supporters and me.
    I know its only anedoctal and York City centric but when my father who reads the Daily Mail everyday was wavering , I thought this game is up.
    My brother got him wavering about workers rights and permanent conservative rule.
    So Corbyn does have an influence, when they know you are out of power for a long time.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Rhode Island - Brown Uni

    Trump 38 .. Kasich 25 .. Cruz 14
    Clinton 43 .. Sanders 34

    https://news.brown.edu/articles/2016/04/taubman-poll
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    Scott_P said:

    I know.

    A landslide of disappointed fans.

    Sturgeon is too scared to do anything that might upset them, so she will try not to do anything.

    Except the things she is already doing have already upset them.

    This, on Named Persons, is written by a supporter, and printed in the Nat onal...
    In this instance, when considering Named Person, I’m looking to our Nordic neighbours. Instead of a beacon of what could be, I’m seeing something I desperately don’t want. Scotland has to think hard about the implications of bringing the government into our family lives. And what could happen if that power is misused.
    http://www.thenational.scot/comment/vonny-moyes-where-is-the-line-between-child-protection-and-harmful-intrusion.16440

    One person is not them having trouble. Most people realise that a simple policy where a child can get help if they really need help is not an issue but a great idea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,095
    Does an FA cup semi final count as an "away win" ;) ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Most people realise that a simple policy where a child can get help if they really need help is not an issue but a great idea.

    Most people realise that's not the policy.

    It's mandatory State monitoring of every child. And it is going to bite Nicola
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Indigo said:

    You keep repeating that, it doesn't make it right. In the real world you move people that are important to you to the front of the queue. If you are a busy executive with limited slots in your diary, you make damn sure to fill those slots with your most important investors and customers, not the guy that spends a couple of grand a month. It was most definitely a slight, it say you are not important enough for any sort of special treatment, you are a bit player that can take their place at the back of the queue with the other tin pot banana republics.

    "First class passengers board first".
    No it says that we are a less valued customer than their existing priority which is TTIP. that a market of 444 million customers is less valued than 64 million. That a half negotiated deal that has been getting negotiated for years already is higher priority than one that hasn't started negotiations yet.

    Again that should come as a shock to the square root of zero people.
  • LayneLayne Posts: 163
    It is hard to find someone having a better referendum campaign than Dominic Raab. The man is a hidden gem. Why have the Tories not put him in a better ministerial role before now? He shows all the knowledge and substance that people like Sajid Javid have lacked.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    They'll be different people from the same duffers & serial failures that have been questioning the thing they've been doing for the last 9 years?

    McTernan's taken over from Iain Martin as one of your go-to-guys, hasn't he?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/441959652742664192
    He really is dire, has he ever got anything right, deluded does not even begin to describe him.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    Making the economic case was a necessary, but not sufficient reason for independence. The SNP did well on the other matters, but fell at the first fence.

    LEAVE are repeating their mistake.
    I have to admit they were crap on currency.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407

    Excellent, then we wont be at the back of the queue any more.
    I really don't mind being at the back of a queue. The big things in the world just are, and the small things can wait.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited April 2016
    malcolmg said:

    http://www.thenational.scot/comment/vonny-moyes-where-is-the-line-between-child-protection-and-harmful-intrusion.16440
    One person is not them having trouble. Most people realise that a simple policy where a child can get help if they really need help is not an issue but a great idea.

    "Most people" as in 24%?

    Asked if "it is right for every child to be assigned a named person to monitor their well-being", a total of 24% of respondents agreed

    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1347998-two-thirds-find-named-person-policy-unacceptable-says-poll/
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Layne said:

    It is hard to find someone having a better referendum campaign than Dominic Raab.

    @SkyNews: Out campaigner Dominic Raab says that @BarackObama is a "lame duck President doing an old friend a favour" https://t.co/zSzYaNB7hI

    ...which is why Obama's successor also gave the same message.

    Oh, wait...
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Layne said:

    It is hard to find someone having a better referendum campaign than Dominic Raab. The man is a hidden gem. Why have the Tories not put him in a better ministerial role before now? He shows all the knowledge and substance that people like Sajid Javid have lacked.

    You have answered your own question I think,.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    Scott_P said:

    Most people realise that's not the policy.

    It's mandatory State monitoring of every child. And it is going to bite Nicola
    Yes I am sure all those head teachers and midwifes will be doing a lot of spying on parents. Are you trying to take over Tapestry's mantle.
  • Scott_P said:

    @SkyNews: Out campaigner Dominic Raab says that @BarackObama is a "lame duck President doing an old friend a favour" https://t.co/zSzYaNB7hI

    ...which is why Obama's successor also gave the same message.

    Oh, wait...
    HRC sees herself as Continuity Obama so it's hardly surprising what her stance is.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,355

    you can pile on the straws but at some stage the camel's back breaks.

    and since we are now effectively in a 2 party system the conservatives are sitting at circa 37% and not the 40+% of the 80s and 90s.

    So where have those Tory voters gone ? And how many more will they need to to lose to become minority - 1% ?

    Remembering of course that Dave will be gone next time.
    If the outcome is similar to this week's MORI poll, then centre right voters will have split 2:1 for Leave, while left of centre voters will have split 3:1 for Remain. The government will have won a victory over its own supporters. Maybe its supporters will just think "no hard feelings" but I wouldn't count on it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    HRC sees herself as Continuity Obama so it's hardly surprising what her stance is.

    Clearly it came as a surprise to Dominic "Awesome Campaign" Raab
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    One person is not them having trouble. Most people realise that a simple policy where a child can get help if they really need help is not an issue but a great idea.
    "Most people" as in 24%?

    Asked if "it is right for every child to be assigned a named person to monitor their well-being", a total of 24% of respondents agreed

    http://stv.tv/news/politics/1347998-two-thirds-find-named-person-policy-unacceptable-says-poll/

    I bet less than 5% would be able to tell you what it was. Easy to get that kind of answer. It will be of no concern to anyone apart from the London losers parties.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407
    Did King's College publicly tweet their initial invitation?
  • Hmm....

    tricky to know who will win SPOTY Team of the Year.

    Leicester or Scrapheap's Fantasy league team....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    I bet less than 5% would be able to tell you what it was.

    You already told us it didn't affect you.

    And then that you hadn't actually read it.

    Luckily not all of the electorate are as ignorant.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    edited April 2016
    Scott_P said:

    You already told us it didn't affect you.

    And then that you hadn't actually read it.

    Luckily not all of the electorate are as ignorant.
    Nice try , explain it to me then. I look forward to a good laugh from a non ignorant Tory.

    PS: I have grandchildren so of course it potentially could affect my family, but then being ignorant how would I know.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    No it says that we are a less valued customer than their existing priority which is TTIP. that a market of 444 million customers is less valued than 64 million. That a half negotiated deal that has been getting negotiated for years already is higher priority than one that hasn't started negotiations yet.

    Again that should come as a shock to the square root of zero people.
    Behind TTIP and Behind every banana republic looking for a deal are not quite the same thing.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Special Austrian Presidential Election page results and maps:

    http://static.kurier.at/elections/bp16/?apaactualSection=apaMap&_ga=1.123543305.321062945.1461504611

    Or simply put:

    "Springtime for Austria and Hofer"
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    the LEAVERS will want payback.

    In the same way the Lib Dems got payback for the AV vote...

    And you are probably going to switch to REMAIN anyway, at least once before the vote.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited April 2016
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,130
    edited April 2016
    malcolmg said:


    One person is not them having trouble. Most people realise that a simple policy where a child can get help if they really need help is not an issue but a great idea.

    Also a policy that has been in place in some council areas for years.

    The 'Ruth Davidson for 2nd' party found the NP policy such a grievous assault on liberty that when it passed through Holyrood, they..wait for it..abstained.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Scott_P said:

    In the same way the Lib Dems got payback for the AV vote...

    And you are probably going to switch to REMAIN anyway, at least once before the vote.

    The LDs did - remember the new boundaries vote?

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,398
    FPT Carlotta re. Australia-USA:

    1945 to 2004 is a lot longer than 10 years......

    It all depends on the political will - since the UK will be the supplicant it might go very quickly: "Sign here" - but were unlikey to get a better deal than the EU - "who to piss off, a 64 million market or a 444 million market?" Difficult.

    Face it, HMS Anglosphere is holed below the waterline and going down by the bow....
    Negotiations started in April 2003, the thing was signed in May 2004 = 13 months.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    Also a policy that has been in place in some council areas for years.

    The 'Ruth Davidson for 2nd' party found the NP policy such a grievous assault on liberty that when it passed through Holyrood, they..wait for it..abstained.
    I am waiting for Cut n paste to explain it to me, that should be a laugh.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The LDs did - remember the new boundaries vote?

    The one that was going to cost the Tories an overall majority.

    Oh, wait...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,398
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    SeanT said:

    Do you think this dismal, juvenile cat-calling is going to help the Tories, and Cameron, once the referendum is over?

    The LEAVERS won't forget. And they are far too numerous to be "purged". Unless by purge you mean "life-threatening amputation".

    REMAIN are going to win as I have always said. But the way REMAIN have conducted the campaign, from Cameron's craven lies right down to the petulance of the most minor players - e.g. your embarrassing little emissions - means the LEAVERS will want payback.
    It seems that the payback is going to consist of self-harm though? They are so angry they are going to mutilate their own party.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,398
    Speedy said:

    Special Austrian Presidential Election page results and maps:

    http://static.kurier.at/elections/bp16/?apaactualSection=apaMap&_ga=1.123543305.321062945.1461504611

    Or simply put:

    "Springtime for Austria and Hofer"

    Springtime for Hillary :lol:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    FPT Carlotta re. Australia-USA:

    Negotiations started in April 2003, the thing was signed in May 2004 = 13 months.
    Sunil, these CCHQ employess don't care about facts , they push whatever lies they are told to.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    I am sure Boris is crying all the way to the bank.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2016
    SeanT said:

    Do you think this dismal, juvenile cat-calling is going to help the Tories, and Cameron, once the referendum is over?

    The LEAVERS won't forget. And they are far too numerous to be "purged". Unless by purge you mean "life-threatening amputation".

    REMAIN are going to win as I have always said. But the way REMAIN have conducted the campaign, from Cameron's craven lies right down to the petulance of the most minor players - e.g. your embarrassing little emissions - means the LEAVERS will want payback.
    What are LEAVE refuseniks going to do?

    Jezza .. Farage .. Farron ....

    Spoiled for choice springs to mind .... if you have a sense of humour.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    NO PLATFORM...SAFE SPACE....SAFE SPACE....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    HRC did not use a disparaging and insulting phrase like "back of the queue" while talking to the British

    I know hyperbole is your schtick, but to claim that you are disparaged and insulted every single time you shop is OTT even by your standards.

    It's embarrassing that you are perpetuating it, really.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    NO PLATFORM...SAFE SPACE....SAFE SPACE....

    Queue is a trigger word.

    Apparently.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    Where are you cut n paste, away trying to find info on Named Person no doubt. I am waiting for you to educate me, don't be long.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Wanderer said:

    It seems that the payback is going to consist of self-harm though? They are so angry they are going to mutilate their own party.
    No, actually I think most will just shrug and walk away, that is what I intent to do. I used to be a member of the Conservative Party, before it became the Lib Dems in Blue Suits Party.
  • JackW said:

    What are LEAVE refuseniks going to do?

    Jezza .. Farage .. Farron ....

    Spoiled for choice springs to mind .... if you have a sense of humour.
    Disgruntled voters aren't obliged to make any choice. They won't bother voting.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    Cameron is acting like he has a majority of 150 and the vast support of rightwing voters, members and activists. It's nuts.

    He is acting more like he won't be bullied and blackmailed by Peter Bone.

    Which strikes me as a reasonable stance, all told.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,398
    edited April 2016

    Any day now we will get an infamous cartoon of Dave servicing Obama. Guido fawkes order order - a possible provider?
    NSFLab
    https://sites.google.com/site/markandrich/suck.JPG
    Or a variation of this Nick servicing Dave scheme - possibly OK for work, no explicit scenes:

    https://bigmart73.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/163361_144773305676566_1810553690_n.jpg
  • timetrompettetimetrompette Posts: 111
    edited April 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @://twitter.com/rosschawkins/status/724282440584429569


    Funny, you normally post a mocking 'SAFE SPACE' when this kind of thing happens.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Wanderer said:

    It seems that the payback is going to consist of self-harm though? They are so angry they are going to mutilate their own party.
    It's not exactly hard to find irrational anger in the Leave camp right now, is it?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,482
    SeanT said:

    HRC did not use a disparaging and insulting phrase like "back of the queue" while talking to the British, on British soil, in front of our own smirking, grovelling twat of a prime minister.

    She used the language you'd expect. "We want to see the UK stronger in the EU" etc etc. all that is fine. if Obama has stuck to diplomatic speech like that, this would also have been fine. US politicians are entitled to an opinion on a major geopolitical event like Brexit.

    But Obama went way further, and demeaned himself, his office and D Cameron.
    She did hold forth on Northern Ireland like it was her back garden a few years ago though. We need to realise as a country that the US sees us as nothing more than another sphere that they control. Perhaps they have since WW2, but recently the mask has slipped more and more. Even Mitt Romney was at it before the Olympics, and he hadn't even won.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Wanderer said:

    They are so angry they are going to mutilate their own party.

    200,000 a year immigration, £25bn a year plus on EU/Overseas spending whilst running never ending budget deficits, PMs who invite in foreign dignitaries to give us 'a talking to'.

    What exactly are the Tory Party?

    Blue Lib Dems? Leftover Blairites?
  • timetrompettetimetrompette Posts: 111
    edited April 2016

    It's not exactly hard to find irrational anger in the Leave camp right now, is it?
    They'll all be friends again by 2020.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,505

    Even Mitt Romney was at it before the Olympics, and he hadn't even won.

    Compare and contrast Boris's rousing 'there's a guy called Mitt Romney' speech with his remarks about Obama.
  • chestnut said:

    200,000 a year immigration, £25bn a year plus on EU/Overseas spending whilst running never ending budget deficits, PMs who invite in foreign dignitaries to give us 'a talking to'.

    What exactly are the Tory Party?

    Blue Lib Dems? Leftover Blairites?
    A vehicle for power. Nothing more.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,398
    malcolmg said:

    Sunil, these CCHQ employess don't care about facts , they push whatever lies they are told to.
    If a lie is repeated often enough....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Disgruntled voters aren't obliged to make any choice. They won't bother voting.
    Quite so.

    Labour inclined voters may well not oblige Jezza with their favour in 2020.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Great campaign...

    @GdnPolitics: Britons may need visa to visit Europe post-Brexit, says dominic raab https://t.co/A2aIpY6Jsc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,314

    They'll be different people from the same duffers & serial failures that have been questioning the thing they've been doing for the last 9 years?

    McTernan's taken over from Iain Martin as one of your go-to-guys, hasn't he?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/441959652742664192
    Judging just by the headline, he doesn't say they will be winners right away, there's still time!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,355
    SeanT said:

    It occurs to me that part of Cameron's problem is that europhiles like him, and REMAIN pundits and politicians in general, simply do not understand the eurosceptic mindset.

    To most europhiles (apart from the craziest Federalists, who constitute about 1% of the population) the EU is generally a goodish thing, with some slight irritating aspects, but nothing to get too worked up about. Nice for trade. Good for roaming with your phone. Holidays in Dordogne mmm.

    Thus they cannot comprehend how passionate and frustrated many sceptics feel about the issue of the EU. For 5 or even 10% of the population the awful EU is an overriding cause, more important than anything else. These people also tend to the perception that they have been betrayed on the EU for decades (they have) and that they are being betrayed again (we shall see).

    This is why Cameron badly underestimated the number of rebels he'd have in his party, and even in his Cabinet.

    It also means the europhiles are underestimating how angry and vengeful the sceptics will be, after REMAIN wins the vote. Sour grapes of course, the whining of losers perhaps, but it is the case. That 5% will want blood. And many of them are core Tory voters.

    The best analogy I can think of is the problems David Trimble faced after 1998. He didn't command a majority among Unionist voters, so his position gradually deteriorated.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,027
    Layne said:

    No, if we lose this, the reason will be because Remain got twice as much funding, at the expense of the taxpayer, in direct contravention of the views of the Electoral Commission.
    I've read some rubbish on here but that really takes the biscuit.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SeanT said:

    Well in terms of voters it just takes 10% of Tory loyalists to switch to UKIP permanently and the Tories will be denied a majority forever.

    In terms of MPs, as Mr Meeks has posited, it just needs 10 MPs to block virtually all government legislation.

    Cameron is acting like he has a majority of 150 and the vast support of rightwing voters, members and activists. It's nuts.
    In GE terms UKIP are a spent force under FPTP and with Jezza at the helm the choice the Britisih electorate will have is stark and patently clear.

    Clearly a small majority presents problems but only if all the opposition have their ducks in place and no PM is going to act as if he's in a weak position - Cameron has learnt the lesson of John Major's stumbling administration. Cameron acts accordingly - ruthless, calculating, confident and with a genial smile and sense of ease.

    What would you have him do - Rush around shouting "Don't Panic !!"
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,027

    Are Labour supporters really going to back a Cameron fronted campaign? I think not.
    You say this regularly, do you actually have any evidence that Labour supporters are not going to vote Remain because of Cameron? If you don't then t's just wishful thinking.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,482
    SeanT said:

    It occurs to me that part of Cameron's problem is that europhiles like him, and REMAIN pundits and politicians in general, simply do not understand the eurosceptic mindset.

    I find this naive. Cameron is the ultimate political insider, and always has been. A functionary of an international system. He does as he's bidden. I seriously doubt we'll ever know what he thinks about Europe or much else.
  • JackW said:

    Quite so.

    Labour inclined voters may well not oblige Jezza with their favour in 2020.
    A Tory victory built on so many maybes over which they have no control. Corbyn might be in place. Labour party leadership election rules might remain the same. The electorate might believe the scare stories about Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Well, as for the last one, it's not working against Khan in London.

    Fingers crossed eh!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,482
    OllyT said:

    I've read some rubbish on here
    To be fair, you do give as good as you get in this regard.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,287
    I really can't remember a British politician with less class than Nigel Farage. I remember some oafish characters on the left like Derek Hatton but even he doesn't come close.
  • Somehow I doubt the next Tory leader will be a Europhile. The endless griping and civil wars are always down the the fact that the leader (esp Heath, Major, Dave)is not where his base is.
This discussion has been closed.