My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
Understatement of the day.
I've been a Cameron fan since 2005, until the day he came back with the "deal" from the EU meeting. Since then it has gone very rapidly downhill indeed. This weekend marks only the halfway point between that deal and the referendum day.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Boris would have had a better chance supporting Remain, backing Cameron 100% and then becoming Foreign Secretary. With Osborne fatally damaged, Boris could then have won by default - his "personality" overcoming any downside with the members who supported Brexit.
A mainstream Boris, especially after 3 years as Foreign Secretary, would be certain to win with the members, even having supported Remain.
Whereas now he's shot himself in the foot - putting the person who lay low and bided their time into pole position - Theresa May.
It's hers to lose now.
Spot on. Theresa has played a blinder: stay notionally loyal but say nothing. She is the one with the fewest negatives. She is in pole position even if LEAVE wins. Who would have thought it - the second woman PM and the second woman Conservative PM?
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
As a party member of twenty years, I contacted quite a few fellow members in recent days, even the leavers aren't that het up. Gay marriage was more of an issue than this has been.
Some of them remember the 90s and don't want to make the same mistake of the 90s, this includes people that have never been that favourable to Cameron from the start.
Obviously I might be wrong, and you could be right, the local election results will be a good indicator.
I'm spending most of the next fortnight helping a Tory hold a council seat in West Yorkshire, I'll let you know what the other activists say.
No locals in my area so difficult for me to judge that. All I know is that members of the local party in both Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire have sworn never to campaign for Cameron or any of the Remain crowd again.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Yes - let us assume that some such people may be more volatile than the average Tory member or Tory Leaver, we know however many were not, indeed were very sensible people. Some of these are now calling for blood. If even a minor proportion of the wider membership feel the same, his position will be very difficult indeed. An enormous win will buy him time, it simply won't be viable to knife him immediately, but they'll make his life hell and he'll know to stand down ahead of schedule, since the tone of many is now irreconcilable. What, he'll make Gove DPM and that'll resolve matters? Like hell it will, even if Gove and co don't want to go further the rubicon has been crossed here.
Personally since I'm not Tory the only thing I want from a Tory party post Remain/Brexit is that it is generally moderate and one would hope competent. I don't see the latter much at present, but then I'm not exactly confident of that from the opposition either, so it comes down to the former. EU aside I feel Cameron's general approach is centrist, or the appearance at least, but hopefully any would be successors can follow suit.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
People want to think the best of their leadership. It is a natural reaction. That is why they are hit so hard and react so badly when reality strikes home. As I said up until a few weeks ago I wanted Leave to win but Cameron to be able to stay on whatever the result. Not any more.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
A brave comment on PB
A stupid comment but no more than we expect from Europhiles.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
Are you seriously saying that at least 45% of the adults in this country fall into these categories? Ever considered that it might apply to your judgement?
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
I'd be happy to let Labour and Jezza have a go while the Tories sort out the Posh Boys in Opposition.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
Thank goodness ordinary people have been given a chance to override all of those.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
As a party member of twenty years, I contacted quite a few fellow members in recent days, even the leavers aren't that het up. Gay marriage was more of an issue than this has been.
Some of them remember the 90s and don't want to make the same mistake of the 90s, this includes people that have never been that favourable to Cameron from the start.
Obviously I might be wrong, and you could be right, the local election results will be a good indicator.
I'm spending most of the next fortnight helping a Tory hold a council seat in West Yorkshire, I'll let you know what the other activists say.
No locals in my area so difficult for me to judge that. All I know is that members of the local party in both Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire have sworn never to campaign for Cameron or any of the Remain crowd again.
There are Associations that I know of that have gone over entirely to LEAVE. Maybe TSE just mixes with the metro sexuals in CCHQ?
If REMAIN wins by margin Cameron will be totally ruthless with those who were on the other side. He's going to be hard to shift.
Half his MP'S are for leave,he shows that sort of actions = tory civil war
Half his MPs are for Remain, Leave show that sort of action if they win = Tory Civil War?
Not as likely, but they seem pretty screwed. Come May when Labour win huge in London, and have priced in losses elsewhere (which may not be as bad as some think), and Corbyn, who has seemingly learned to not interrupt his opponents with his own idiocy, will start to look viable to surprisingly many I fear.
If REMAIN wins by margin Cameron will be totally ruthless with those who were on the other side. He's going to be hard to shift.
Er, yeah, apart from the fact he is a lame duck PM who has pre-announced his resignation.
Other than that, superb insight.
He's somewhat euro-sceptic himself.
That's possibly the funniest thing I've read here since I started in 2006.
Eurosceptic in the European sense means you do not think the EU is perfect but do everything it asks anyway, while frowning occasionally. Going further than that is for loons or, gasp, populists.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
Hmm, I've never considered myself bold enough to be a maverick, so I fear I'm an oddball. In fairness, it's not a complete surprise.
Boris would have had a better chance supporting Remain, backing Cameron 100% and then becoming Foreign Secretary. With Osborne fatally damaged, Boris could then have won by default - his "personality" overcoming any downside with the members who supported Brexit.
A mainstream Boris, especially after 3 years as Foreign Secretary, would be certain to win with the members, even having supported Remain.
Whereas now he's shot himself in the foot - putting the person who lay low and bided their time into pole position - Theresa May.
It's hers to lose now.
Spot on. Theresa has played a blinder: stay notionally loyal but say nothing. She is the one with the fewest negatives. She is in pole position even if LEAVE wins. Who would have thought it - the second woman PM and the second woman Conservative PM?
Just wait until she opens her mouth and say that REMAIN is best to keep to immigration targets........ A real wtf when her record gets disected.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
A brave comment on PB
There are a large number of Tories here who have been taken in by Cameron's dissembling on the EU. Surprising that so many intelligent people were fooled but there you are.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
I think Tory party will come to their senses just in time.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
They've only got to organise 10 MPs into inaction, and that's the Tory working majority gone. It's easy.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
I think Tory party will come to their senses just in time.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Well, I suppose he's the only one who's actually held an Out referendum on the matter.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Well, I suppose he's the only one who's actually held an Out referendum on the matter.
And there's more, but you'll need to wait until the morning to read the rest.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
They've only got to organise 10 MPs into inaction, and that's the Tory working majority gone. It's easy.
Quite so. Quite separate to the EU issue they've caused difficulty and embarrassment. How many will, even if soundly defeated in a public vote or even an ensuing tory civil war, be perfectly willing to consistently vote with the opposition to cause trouble? I'd think at least 10 is a safe bet.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Well, I suppose he's the only one who's actually held an Out referendum on the matter.
Cameron flapped, and was bounced into it, in an attempt to placate the Right.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
I think Tory party will come to their senses just in time.
Like they would remain civil during the EU referendum, then immediately (if still technically politely) called each other liars, deluded, fearmongers and so much else?
Sorry to bang on about the London elections, but I was very grateful to Nick Palmer for giving his view on what is happening in the Labour party, stating that there is lots going on.
According to me red sources, apparently, Labour do have as many events as any London campaign but less activists are turning out. Also, they claim their vote is down, but I can't work out if that is versus the last Mayoral, 4 years ago or at the GE in 2015.
Clearly, if the latter, turnout will be about half, so of course their vote is down. If it is down versus 2012, then we Tories will be happy.
Re; Mayoralty, Labour have gone from quiet confidence to arrogance, Sadiq has won, absolute 100% certainty they say. So, they may be a smidgeon of value on the day if Zac drifts to a silly figure like 10 to 1. Zac still has a chance if Tories turn out and the quiet voters turn out too. Remember the GE. There's a chance.
For Assembly Member elections, we are in the dark. One senior Labour man told me that they might lose Brent & Harrow. F*ck me, if true, that is amazing. Therefore there might be a bet there, a fiver or so. Labour also claim they are struggling in Barnet & Camden and Ealing & Hillingdon. But they feel strong in North-east. The trouble with all this chat, is that the data is small in figures and lots of hearsay. On the other hand, the polls were great for Labour, but they didn't change their confidence/arrogance monitor. They (& Tories) are only reading their own data, the polls are too volatile.
Labour hold the seat of Westminster North - Karen Buck. Happily the council is controlled by the Tories. We have nice clean streets (well ish), and a low count of daft beards. Ms Buck is spectacularly ineffective in bringing socialism in her wake. No doubt she has some good stickers that she can deploy. She is a terrible MP.
Harrow should be safe Tory, but somehow it's not. There has been some awful local government there.
Voters often hold their noses and vote for a useless individual or groups. Weird. This election is so low key because of referendum, it might throw up some odd results. Brent and Harrow might be it.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
They've only got to organise 10 MPs into inaction, and that's the Tory working majority gone. It's easy.
Yep. Cameron is acting like he's got a majority of 100. He has a tiny... "Majority"... And should keep his arrogance in check because he really, really, really has nothing to be arrogant about.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
People want to think the best of their leadership. It is a natural reaction. That is why they are hit so hard and react so badly when reality strikes home. As I said up until a few weeks ago I wanted Leave to win but Cameron to be able to stay on whatever the result. Not any more.
But even during the leadership election itself he somehow convinced the eurosceptics to vote for him. I was gobsmacked at the time that he pulled it off.
Obama's intervention is seen as a potential game-changer in the referendum campaign, with some 'Remain' supporters predicting a decisive 60-40 victory.
Respected poll expert Professor John Curtice said yesterday that the 'Remain' camp made 'significant progress' last week but the race was 'far from over'.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Well, I suppose he's the only one who's actually held an Out referendum on the matter.
Cameron flapped, and was bounced into it, in an attempt to placate the Right.
Yes I know, I was speaking in a strict technical sense. In any case most others never had the chance to offer one.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent. Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
Why? What evidence have you? The members are 2:1 for LEAVE. The MPs have almost half openly for LEAVE and there is an unknown number who state they are for REMAIN but resent being forced into that. Contrast this with Major's time. He only had 30 eurosceptics whereas Cameron faces 150+.
Obama's intervention is seen as a potential game-changer in the referendum campaign, with some 'Remain' supporters predicting a decisive 60-40 victory.
Respected poll expert Professor John Curtice said yesterday that the 'Remain' camp made 'significant progress' last week but the race was 'far from over'.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
They've only got to organise 10 MPs into inaction, and that's the Tory working majority gone. It's easy.
Yep. Cameron is acting like he's got a majority of 100. He has a tiny... "Minority"... And should keep his arrogance in check because he really, really, really has nothing to be arrogant about.
Blair got away with it after Iraq with majorities of 167 and 66. Cameron has been struggling to pass legislation even before the Referendum vote kicked off in anger. Now? No chance.
With the Junior Doctors warming up for mass, unlimited strike action, and whatever else Labour are co-ordinating, and the Tories have the mother of all cluster f*cks on their hands.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
A brave comment on PB
There are a large number of Tories here who have been taken in by Cameron's dissembling on the EU. Surprising that so many intelligent people were fooled but there you are.
I always knew Cameron's bolleux on the EU was just that. Nonsense. He would never canvass for OUT, as he himself admitted, several times, in years past.
What HAS surprised me is the repulsive depths he will sink to, in order to win this vote. The charade of the "negotiation" and the "deal" (now seemingly forgotten, in toto) - it shows complete contempt for voters. Cameron thinks we are just stupid. Then there's the smarmy and desperate fellating of a US president, at a lectern in London, even as this same president patronisingly tells us where to shove it, in our own capital.
Odious, odious, odious.
So in essence you are saying that Cameron has been ruthlessly effective. A good quality in a leader?
Looking at the article, Boris doesn't say 'ridiculous weird Obama'. I think he's been stitched up by that front page
Barack Obama is entitled to his view and he is an honoured guest, but it is ridiculous to warn that the UK will be at the back of the queue for a free trade deal.
The UK has never been able to do a free trade deal with the US in the last 43 years – because we are in the EU!
Any negotiations are entirely in the hands of the European Commission and only 3.6 per cent of commission officials actually come from this country.
Negotiations are held up by absurd problems like the French restrictions on Hollywood movies or Greek hostility to American feta cheese.
No one in the last 48 hours has come close to answering my point – it is very weird that the US should be telling the UK to do something they would not dream of doing themselves in a million years.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent. Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
Why? What evidence have you? The members are 2:1 for LEAVE. The MPs have almost half openly for LEAVE and there is an unknown number who state they are for REMAIN but resent being forced into that. Contrast this with Major's time. He only had 30 eurosceptics whereas Cameron faces 150+.
The incompetence of Tory Leavers at organising anything is pretty plain for all to see, and that disorganisation will be their achilles heel.
Boris would have had a better chance supporting Remain, backing Cameron 100% and then becoming Foreign Secretary. With Osborne fatally damaged, Boris could then have won by default - his "personality" overcoming any downside with the members who supported Brexit.
A mainstream Boris, especially after 3 years as Foreign Secretary, would be certain to win with the members, even having supported Remain.
Whereas now he's shot himself in the foot - putting the person who lay low and bided their time into pole position - Theresa May.
It's hers to lose now.
Spot on. Theresa has played a blinder: stay notionally loyal but say nothing. She is the one with the fewest negatives. She is in pole position even if LEAVE wins. Who would have thought it - the second woman PM and the second woman Conservative PM?
Just wait until she opens her mouth and say that REMAIN is best to keep to immigration targets........ A real wtf when her record gets disected.
But if REMAIN wins then continued free movement will become an unalterable reality. Cameron cannot survive IMO because he has become an insufferably divisive figure. He still has many loyalists, but his detractors really hate him. Theresa, for all her failure over immigration, is a definitively more emollient figure, and that is what is required. This is more akin to 1990 and the end of Thatcher than it is of the later 1990s and the travails of John Major.
If REMAIN wins by margin Cameron will be totally ruthless with those who were on the other side. He's going to be hard to shift.
Half his MP'S are for leave,he shows that sort of actions = tory civil war
Half his MPs are for Remain, Leave show that sort of action if they win = Tory Civil War?
How many of those 50% would be Remainers if Cam and Osborne had backed Leave?
We have no way of knowing. Fewer, perhaps, but as guilty as Remainers may be of condescending assumptions, I think Tory Leavers presuming a majority of Remainer MPs are gutless liars are guilty of the same, as it reassures them there will be no more trouble once the Remainer cabal at the top are dealt with.
Well, possibly. But doesn't that seem a little optimistic? With half the party already coming out for Leave, and the widespread assumption Cameron will step down if he loses, there was never an easier time for even a party drone to speak up for what they truly believed. So if it is a significant number of Remainer MPs who are really leavers pressured into it, they are not worth relying on for anything anyway.
Looking at the article, Boris doesn't say 'ridiculous weird Obama'. I think he's been stitched up by that front page
Barack Obama is entitled to his view and he is an honoured guest, but it is ridiculous to warn that the UK will be at the back of the queue for a free trade deal.
The UK has never been able to do a free trade deal with the US in the last 43 years – because we are in the EU!
Any negotiations are entirely in the hands of the European Commission and only 3.6 per cent of commission officials actually come from this country.
Negotiations are held up by absurd problems like the French restrictions on Hollywood movies or Greek hostility to American feta cheese.
No one in the last 48 hours has come close to answering my point – it is very weird that the US should be telling the UK to do something they would not dream of doing themselves in a million years.
If the Mail have stitched up Boris it is a 100% U turn and if so are they getting twitchy that they may be backing the losing side
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
Interesting how many anti-TTIP postings I am seeing since yesterday. It seems Obama has rattled the cage of the left and they are using his speech as a prompt to renew opposition to the trade deal.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and to keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
Boris would have had a better chance supporting Remain, backing Cameron 100% and then becoming Foreign Secretary. With Osborne fatally damaged, Boris could then have won by default - his "personality" overcoming any downside with the members who supported Brexit.
A mainstream Boris, especially after 3 years as Foreign Secretary, would be certain to win with the members, even having supported Remain.
Whereas now he's shot himself in the foot - putting the person who lay low and bided their time into pole position - Theresa May.
It's hers to lose now.
Spot on. Theresa has played a blinder: stay notionally loyal but say nothing. She is the one with the fewest negatives. She is in pole position even if LEAVE wins. Who would have thought it - the second woman PM and the second woman Conservative PM?
Just wait until she opens her mouth and say that REMAIN is best to keep to immigration targets........ A real wtf when her record gets disected.
But if REMAIN wins then continued free movement will become an unalterable reality. Cameron cannot survive IMO because he has become an insufferably divisive figure. He still has many loyalists, but his detractors really hate him. Theresa, for all her failure over immigration, is a definitively more emollient figure, and that is what is required. This is more akin to 1990 and the end of Thatcher than it is of the later 1990s and the travails of John Major.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
So in essence you are saying that Cameron has been ruthlessly effective. A good quality in a leader?
When targeted in the manner people want, obviously. See also the reaction when a favoured politician insults, crudely, one who people dislike, vs the reverse.
There is definitely something in that plenty of Tories or others suggest they knew Cameron would always campaign for Remain, just not as 'shamelessly'. Since election campaigns are shameless, the only question being to what degree, this should not have been a surprise, nor should it be impossible to overcome. Take heart, Leave - keep fighting, don't be distracted by complaining of unfairness too much and we can win this, and then the Tories can descend into farce as much as they like afterwards.
Looking at the article, Boris doesn't say 'ridiculous weird Obama'. I think he's been stitched up by that front page
Barack Obama is entitled to his view and he is an honoured guest, but it is ridiculous to warn that the UK will be at the back of the queue for a free trade deal.
The UK has never been able to do a free trade deal with the US in the last 43 years – because we are in the EU!
Any negotiations are entirely in the hands of the European Commission and only 3.6 per cent of commission officials actually come from this country.
Negotiations are held up by absurd problems like the French restrictions on Hollywood movies or Greek hostility to American feta cheese.
No one in the last 48 hours has come close to answering my point – it is very weird that the US should be telling the UK to do something they would not dream of doing themselves in a million years.
The truth is that if we voted to Leave we'd be the first priority for the US and others to do deals with. I can't see that there's the slightest doubt in that.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
He's worse than Heath. At least Heath was honest and it was a passopn that was born out of WWII.
Cameron didn't even have the courage of Heath's convictions nevermind his own.
So the considered view is that Brexiteers should counter allegations of lunatic monomania by sabotaging their own Government for the next 4 years if the public vote the "wrong" way...
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
No. You're a traitor. That's an insult AND a fact.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Does Cameron get knifed in a VoC straight after the referendum?
Popcorn time if vote of no confidence.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Don't be silly. The next election's a shoo in.
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Tory civil war is what could go wrong. There is plenty of precedent. Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
Why? What evidence have you? The members are 2:1 for LEAVE. The MPs have almost half openly for LEAVE and there is an unknown number who state they are for REMAIN but resent being forced into that. Contrast this with Major's time. He only had 30 eurosceptics whereas Cameron faces 150+.
The incompetence of Tory Leavers at organising anything is pretty plain for all to see, and that disorganisation will be their achilles heel.
As compared to REMAIN having a festering sore of the junior doctors rumbling along and the Osborne omnishambles budget including an education policy change which has lots of Conservative back benchers opposed..... The disorganisation of Cameron and Osborne dwarfs LEAVE's problems which have a tiny share of the resources the Govt has.....
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
No. You're a traitor. That's an insult AND a fact.
No, TSE isn't a traitor!
He's a Quisling Traitor Pig-Dog of Philby-esque proportions!
The truth is that if we voted to Leave we'd be the first priority for the US and others to do deals with. I can't see that there's the slightest doubt in that.
So the considered view is that Brexiteers should counter allegations of lunatic monomania by sabotaging their own Government for the next 4 years if the public vote the "wrong" way...
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
The fury of Tory Brexiters as the scales are torn from their eyes is indeed wondrous. But not surprising. The fact is that they have been gulled. Cameron never had any intention of taking the UK out of the EU. The whole referendum/renegotiation contortions were a smokescreen designed to fool the more credulous members of his party that there was a chance he might lead an "out" campaign.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
A brave comment on PB
There are a large number of Tories here who have been taken in by Cameron's dissembling on the EU. Surprising that so many intelligent people were fooled but there you are.
I always knew Cameron's bolleux on the EU was just that. Nonsense. He would never canvass for OUT, as he himself admitted, several times, in years past.
What HAS surprised me is the repulsive depths he will sink to, in order to win this vote. The charade of the "negotiation" and the "deal" (now seemingly forgotten, in toto) - it shows complete contempt for voters. Cameron thinks we are just stupid. Then there's the smarmy and desperate fellating of a US president, at a lectern in London, even as this same president patronisingly tells us where to shove it, in our own capital.
Odious, odious, odious.
So in essence you are saying that Cameron has been ruthlessly effective. A good quality in a leader?
Not if his legacy may be a party almost destroyed by his actions? History would not be kind.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
What facts ?
The fact Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had. See my piece in the morning for a fuller explanation.
So the considered view is that Brexiteers should counter allegations of lunatic monomania by sabotaging their own Government for the next 4 years if the public vote the "wrong" way...
Awesome.
Many leavers may not want that. Do your really think though that at least 10 Leaver MPs won't take that view? When some are on the record already saying Cameron should face a challenge even if Remain, and that before this Obama business?
You may think the allegations unfounded, and such a reaction to be hysterical and self defeating. It still seems likely it will happen.
And Corbyn will benefit. Enough to win, presuming he is still around in a few years time? Maybe not, but a lot depends on how bad things get for the Tories, and right now they look bloody awful.
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
If REMAIN wins by margin Cameron will be totally ruthless with those who were on the other side. He's going to be hard to shift.
Half his MP'S are for leave,he shows that sort of actions = tory civil war
Half his MPs are for Remain, Leave show that sort of action if they win = Tory Civil War?
How many of those 50% would be Remainers if Cam and Osborne had backed Leave?
Of the current LEAVERs I would have said less than 10. Of the current REMAINERs at least half - i,e, one quarter of the MPs would switch allegiance where ever the Leadership were. People such as Sajid Javid.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
No. You're a traitor. That's an insult AND a fact.
Have you been dumped again?
No. Just had one of the best days of my life. My two nine year old daughters met, for the very first time. And it was FAB.
I'm full of bonhomie and chutzpah, just not keen on traitors. Sorry.
I'm very happy that you had such a delightful day. I hope you have plenty more of them.
And Corbyn will benefit. Enough to win, presuming he is still around in a few years time? Maybe not, but a lot depends on how bad things get for the Tories, and right now they look bloody awful.
I've given up on the Posh Boys. #TeamJezza for me.
Many leavers may not want that. Do your really think though that at least 10 Leaver MPs won't take that view? When some are on the record already saying Cameron should face a challenge even if Remain, and that before this Obama business?
I am confident there are at least 10 Tory MPs stupid enough to follow this line. They have proved it, over and over again. What I question is how it helps their cause.
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
A sensible government would have come to an accommodation with their doctors months and months ago...
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
No. You're a traitor. That's an insult AND a fact.
Have you been dumped again?
No. Just had one of the best days of my life. My two nine year old daughters met, for the very first time. And it was FAB.
I'm full of bonhomie and chutzpah, just not keen on traitors. Sorry.
I'm very happy that you had such a delightful day. I hope you have plenty more of them.
I echo your thoughts to SeanT. Nine was when my daughter decided that she was too old to give good night kisses to her mum and dad.... Now 20yrs I suspect even the boy friend gets kisses rationed. Treat mean to keep keen?
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
The thread I've written for the morning contains the sentence
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Cameron will go down has another heath and a liar and the most Eurosceptic leader - people will laugh at you now and especially in future years with that comment.
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
You engage in insults and abuse, I engage in facts.
What facts ?
The fact Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had. See my piece in the morning for a fuller explanation.
See my post explaning he isn't,what will be the common opinion in future years by the general public.
A - Cameron was the most Eurosceptic leader the tories ever had
B - Cameron was just another Heath but more than that,he was a liar.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
People want to think the best of their leadership. It is a natural reaction. That is why they are hit so hard and react so badly when reality strikes home. As I said up until a few weeks ago I wanted Leave to win but Cameron to be able to stay on whatever the result. Not any more.
But even during the leadership election itself he somehow convinced the eurosceptics to vote for him. I was gobsmacked at the time that he pulled it off.
He didn't fool everyone. I left the party just after he was elected and you only have to look at how the membership has dropped since then to see what effect he has had. At the time he was elected the official membership was 253,000. What is it now? Half that?
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
A sensible government would have come to an accommodation with their doctors months and months ago...
Anyone with half a brain would have cleared the decks before the Referendum kicked off in anger. HMG were likely hoping that no one would notice the doctors strike, behind the smokescreen of the EU vote. Muppets.
Thankyou. You're still a traitor, and if you vote REMAIN I will continue to call you this - along with all other REMAIN voters (especially the rightwingers) because in my mind it is simply a statement of the case.
But thankyou, nonetheless.
If ensuring the economic wellbeing of the country isn't risked, then I'm quite happy to be called a traitor by you.
One of the leading REMAINers in the media made the comment the other day that LEAVE ministers were higher quality than the REMAINers excluding Cameron and Osborne.
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
Apparently the Doctors have been warned that they will be struck off if something as serious as a death can be attributed to an individual doctor on strike
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
People want to think the best of their leadership. It is a natural reaction. That is why they are hit so hard and react so badly when reality strikes home. As I said up until a few weeks ago I wanted Leave to win but Cameron to be able to stay on whatever the result. Not any more.
But even during the leadership election itself he somehow convinced the eurosceptics to vote for him. I was gobsmacked at the time that he pulled it off.
He didn't fool everyone. I left the party just after he was elected and you only have to look at how the membership has dropped since then to see what effect he has had. At the time he was elected the official membership was 253,000. What is it now? Half that?
Thankyou. You're still a traitor, and if you vote REMAIN I will continue to call you this - along with all other REMAIN voters (especially the rightwingers) because in my mind it is simply a statement of the case.
But thankyou, nonetheless.
If ensuring the economic wellbeing of the country isn't risked, then I'm quite happy to be called a traitor by you.
And Corbyn will benefit. Enough to win, presuming he is still around in a few years time? Maybe not, but a lot depends on how bad things get for the Tories, and right now they look bloody awful.
I've given up on the Posh Boys. #TeamJezza for me.
My contempt for Cameron is now entirely boundless. I hate him. I want him gone, ruined, humiliated. Forever.
If I am feeling this, as a mild eurosceptic non Tory, I wonder what some committed Tory sceptics are thinking.
I'm not a tory but I respected cameron,not any more,the man is a lying cnut.
My revenge will be after the referendum (looks like leave will lose ) his leave backbenchers who must have some bad taste from cameron tactics and the tory leadership where I pray that other cnut osborne loses.
Cameron supporters that are for LEAVE that I know are utterly bewildered by him. They feel badly let down.
It is interesting how many posters on here who were, until recently, well disposed to Cameron now want him crucified. In spite of what TSE and the few remaining loyalists might wish it really doesn't bode well for him after the referendum.
Despite being plainly a Europhile it is quite clear a large number of Eurosceptic Conservatives thought Cameron was "one of us".
Which as an outsider is completely unfathomable.
People want to think the best of their leadership. It is a natural reaction. That is why they are hit so hard and react so badly when reality strikes home. As I said up until a few weeks ago I wanted Leave to win but Cameron to be able to stay on whatever the result. Not any more.
But even during the leadership election itself he somehow convinced the eurosceptics to vote for him. I was gobsmacked at the time that he pulled it off.
He didn't fool everyone. I left the party just after he was elected and you only have to look at how the membership has dropped since then to see what effect he has had. At the time he was elected the official membership was 253,000. What is it now? Half that?
Thatcher lost more members in absolute numbers and as a proportion of members than Cameron has.
It's a long term trend of declining party membership numbers that you can't pin on any party leader.
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
A sensible government would have come to an accommodation with their doctors months and months ago...
A sensible government lets down the people who elected them by reneging on the top line of their manifesto by caving to vested interests who want more money?
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
No. It is the National Union of Doctors who have chosen to jeopardise patient safety by going on strike.
A sensible government would have come to an accommodation with their doctors months and months ago...
Anyone with half a brain would have cleared the decks before the Referendum kicked off in anger. HMG were likely hoping that no one would notice the doctors strike, behind the smokescreen of the EU vote. Muppets.
Exactly. Therefore everytime we see LEAVE castigated for struggling with a tiny budget, split teams (due to Farage and Bone) etc etc the LEAVE shambolic examples are dwarfed by the monumental ineptitude of the Govt over items it controls.
What amazes me about Cameron's grotesque behaviour is that he does not seem to care if he ruins his own "legacy", it's all about winning the referendum. He must know he will be loathed and reviled by his own party and many beyond, with his hideous fellatio of those who threaten us, but that doesn't matter, as long as we stay in the EU.
He is expending all his political capital, and indeed overdrawing on it, to achieve an IN.
I can only conclude that he is passionately europhile, on a scale that makes Ken Clarke look like Nige Farage. Which also means he is a fraud and a liar.
To be fair, I doubt it. I don't think he cares much about his legacy, or anything very policy-related - he just likes WINNING stuff. He's demob-happy and wants to go out with a nice big victory.
The extent to which politicians get caught up in this sort of thing like football matches is often understimated. Blair had it too, though it took a different form - his idea of a really good time was to take a very unpopular position and persuade people to support it. That, rather than any great economic analysis, was part of the reason why he wants to go for a Euro referendum - he thought, perhaps rightly, that he could win it. Brown, an altogether more saturnine character, just said he didn't think it was a good idea and he wasn't having it.
Comments
I've been a Cameron fan since 2005, until the day he came back with the "deal" from the EU meeting. Since then it has gone very rapidly downhill indeed. This weekend marks only the halfway point between that deal and the referendum day.
Leave = Aston Villa
Personally since I'm not Tory the only thing I want from a Tory party post Remain/Brexit is that it is generally moderate and one would hope competent. I don't see the latter much at present, but then I'm not exactly confident of that from the opposition either, so it comes down to the former. EU aside I feel Cameron's general approach is centrist, or the appearance at least, but hopefully any would be successors can follow suit.
But there was never any possibility that he would do this. It would be almost impossible for any PM to do so. At least 3/4 of MPs favour In. National organisations in all walks of life take the same view. Bodies representing business, finance, the city, agriculture. manufacturing, science, medicine, the universities, tourism are unanimous for In. So are the trade unions and opposition parties. There are no significant national organisations or representative bodies in favour of Out. None.
And the same is true of our allies and friends abroad. They are also unanimous for In.
Brexit is supported only by oddballs, mavericks and political opportunists who have overdosed on Daily Mail editorials. Everyone else think it's bonkers.
Then the Tories can continue their civil war in opposition.
Sorry but....
OK, I've got myself back under control again.
That's possibly the funniest thing I've read here since I started in 2006.
'There's an inarguable case to be made that Cameron is the most Eurosceptic Leader the Tories have ever had'
Of course it relies on Corbyn still being in place, and Labour being unable to change the leadership voting rules, both things which ultimately, the Tories have no real control over. What could possibly go wrong.
Not as likely, but they seem pretty screwed. Come May when Labour win huge in London, and have priced in losses elsewhere (which may not be as bad as some think), and Corbyn, who has seemingly learned to not interrupt his opponents with his own idiocy, will start to look viable to surprisingly many I fear. Eurosceptic in the European sense means you do not think the EU is perfect but do everything it asks anyway, while frowning occasionally. Going further than that is for loons or, gasp, populists. Hmm, I've never considered myself bold enough to be a maverick, so I fear I'm an oddball. In fairness, it's not a complete surprise.
Though I think the Tory Remainers would win that. Tory Leavers couldn't organise a banana scramble in a monkey house.
http://tinyurl.com/hfnho2r
I think Cameron is really very Euro-sceptical. I think almost everyone in UK politics is.
They're all voting remain because they live in the short-term.
It's a piece that will cheer up Leave.
Obama's intervention is seen as a potential game-changer in the referendum campaign, with some 'Remain' supporters predicting a decisive 60-40 victory.
Respected poll expert Professor John Curtice said yesterday that the 'Remain' camp made 'significant progress' last week but the race was 'far from over'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3555600/Boris-rage-ridiculous-weird-Obama-Extraordinary-statement-MoS-mocks-President-trade-threats.html
With the Junior Doctors warming up for mass, unlimited strike action, and whatever else Labour are co-ordinating, and the Tories have the mother of all cluster f*cks on their hands.
Barack Obama is entitled to his view and he is an honoured guest, but it is ridiculous to warn that the UK will be at the back of the queue for a free trade deal.
The UK has never been able to do a free trade deal with the US in the last 43 years – because we are in the EU!
Any negotiations are entirely in the hands of the European Commission and only 3.6 per cent of commission officials actually come from this country.
Negotiations are held up by absurd problems like the French restrictions on Hollywood movies or Greek hostility to American feta cheese.
No one in the last 48 hours has come close to answering my point – it is very weird that the US should be telling the UK to do something they would not dream of doing themselves in a million years.
Well, possibly. But doesn't that seem a little optimistic? With half the party already coming out for Leave, and the widespread assumption Cameron will step down if he loses, there was never an easier time for even a party drone to speak up for what they truly believed. So if it is a significant number of Remainer MPs who are really leavers pressured into it, they are not worth relying on for anything anyway.
Does anybody know, if someone happens to die next week during the doctors strike, is there any way Cameron, Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and the Dept Health can be personally sued because is their intransigence and negligence in allowing the situation to descend to this farce?
They seem more impressive than the lacklustre Morgan, Rudd, Truss and Greening.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/barack-obamas-views-betray-a-woeful-ignorance-on-the-impact-of-t/
He's a fraud,to keep the tory party together and to keep large votes going to ukip,he pretended to be Eurosceptic.
The real cameron on the EU is what we are watching NOW,a total Europhile.
There is definitely something in that plenty of Tories or others suggest they knew Cameron would always campaign for Remain, just not as 'shamelessly'. Since election campaigns are shameless, the only question being to what degree, this should not have been a surprise, nor should it be impossible to overcome. Take heart, Leave - keep fighting, don't be distracted by complaining of unfairness too much and we can win this, and then the Tories can descend into farce as much as they like afterwards.
Cameron didn't even have the courage of Heath's convictions nevermind his own.
Awesome.
He's a Quisling Traitor Pig-Dog of Philby-esque proportions!
You may think the allegations unfounded, and such a reaction to be hysterical and self defeating. It still seems likely it will happen.
And Corbyn will benefit. Enough to win, presuming he is still around in a few years time? Maybe not, but a lot depends on how bad things get for the Tories, and right now they look bloody awful.
What have we got to lose?
A - Cameron was the most Eurosceptic leader the tories ever had
B - Cameron was just another Heath but more than that,he was a liar.
It's a long term trend of declining party membership numbers that you can't pin on any party leader.
OK.
The extent to which politicians get caught up in this sort of thing like football matches is often understimated. Blair had it too, though it took a different form - his idea of a really good time was to take a very unpopular position and persuade people to support it. That, rather than any great economic analysis, was part of the reason why he wants to go for a Euro referendum - he thought, perhaps rightly, that he could win it. Brown, an altogether more saturnine character, just said he didn't think it was a good idea and he wasn't having it.