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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Obama’s “back of the queue” response on a US trade deal is

SystemSystem Posts: 12,143
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Obama’s “back of the queue” response on a US trade deal is the biggest development in the referendum campaign so far

Obama's "back of the queue" trade deal response will infuriate OUT pic.twitter.com/83Kva8A97z

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    edited April 2016
    1st like Labour in latest polls
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    Dear Mr President,

    Go **** yourself.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016
    RE: Obama's "back of the queue" trade deal response.

    A very sad day for the state of this Government and our country. Does our PM and his closest mates in the cabinet have no pride in our country?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    It's complete BS* but it will work and is our special relationship in action. The President of the United States is doing the bidding of our Prime Minister to try and win a vote for our PM in a way that suits the US's own agenda.

    * Today it suits the US to have Remain win. If Leave win then faster than you can say Mississippi the US will accept the result and move on.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,

    Go **** yourself.

    Oh , but can we have a trade deal? Thanks...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited April 2016
    Third like the spoiled ballot papers.

    EDIT Bah, too late.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    I look forward to Prime Minister Johnson meeting President Trump.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,

    Go **** yourself.

    Oh , but can we have a trade deal? Thanks...
    Do we have a trade deal with the US right now?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016
    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ShippersUnbound: To use an American phrase, Obama brought a gun to a knife fight...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    As celebrity endorsements go they don't get much better. An expert testimony as well
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Barack Obama snookers Brexit by saying get to the back of the cue.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,

    Go **** yourself.

    Oh , but can we have a trade deal? Thanks...
    Do we have a trade deal with the US right now?
    USA want TTIP with the EU - and to rope the UK in. if the UK leaves then they won't be bound - and I'm pretty sure that 'back of the line' will suddenly get an Express Pass to the front.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    LEAVE up to 3.2 on Betfair.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it,

    Sceptics will never ever forget it, the bitterness will go on for a generation.

    Hey ho. My flat will go up in value.

    Somewhere the ghost of Ted Heath is grinning to itself, as his status as the most reviled Tory leader is revoked.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    bigjohnowls said:

    1st like Labour in latest polls

    Are new thoughts about Ched Evans ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    weejonnie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,

    Go **** yourself.

    Oh , but can we have a trade deal? Thanks...
    Do we have a trade deal with the US right now?
    USA want TTIP with the EU - and to rope the UK in. if the UK leaves then they won't be bound - and I'm pretty sure that 'back of the line' will suddenly get an Express Pass to the front.
    Indeed the USA is far more likely to get a good (in their eyes) TTIP deal with us in the EU. Why on earth would the President not vocally agree with the PM that the EU is great when to him it is?

    If we leave then that die will be cast and the US will do what it always has done. Look after number one, and that means putting us to the front of the queue.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    It's the fact that he's asked foreign leaders to threaten the British people that grates. As much as this annoys me as Obama is seen as being important, I'm still fuming from the intervention of that socialist idiot across the channel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    edited April 2016
    What a Special Relationship.

    Obama says exactly what Cameron would have wanted him to say.

    Cameron must have real persuasive powers.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Another world leader made threats against Britain and Cameron stood next to him and smiled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him....

    I think the reason for that is that he'd get the opprobium anyway. So he might as well win. If he wins decisively enough (which is looking increasingly likely), it won't matter that there are a few bruised egos left lying around.
    I think there was an element of that. There definitely would have been ill feeling and complaints of betrayal anyway, we know that because people were saying any referendum he ran would be unfair before he even agreed to one, so I can see why he might decide, eff it, let's do this. That doesn't mean his tactics were smart or inevitable, but it's understandable.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    It's the fact that he's asked foreign leaders to threaten the British people that grates. As much as this annoys me as Obama is seen as being important, I'm still fuming from the intervention of that socialist idiot across the channel.
    Of course you're fuming, he agrees with our PM and disagrees with you. If he'd backed your cause you'd be grinning not fuming. Que sera sera.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    Would British military personnel also be at the 'back of the queue' when it comes to dying in the USA's wars ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    edited April 2016
    Ironically, if you don't like the what the US president said and want to act independently, the best solution is for the UK to be part of the EU.

    Clearly we have much more chance of influencing the EU than the US. And according to Obama the EU has a much greater chance of influencing the US than the UK.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What a Special Relationship.

    Obama says exactly what Cameron would have wanted him to say.

    Cameron must have real persuasive powers.

    My thoughts exactly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Any way the leavers can fuck this up?

    @faisalislam: Government minister Dominic Raab tells @skynews that "Barack Obama is a lame duck President"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What a Special Relationship.

    Obama says exactly what Cameron would have wanted him to say.

    Cameron must have real persuasive powers.

    The one where the British bend over and take is from the Yanks?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Tykejohnno said:

    Another world leader made threats against Britain and Cameron stood next to him and smiled.

    He made threats against leave, not threats against Britain. Since Cameron is anti-leave why would he not smile? My enemies enemies is my friend afterall.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What a Special Relationship.

    Obama says exactly what Cameron would have wanted him to say.

    Cameron must have real persuasive powers.

    The one where the British bend over and take is from the Yanks?
    http://order-order.com/2016/04/22/obamas-threat-to-britain/
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    another_richard said:

    Would British military personnel also be at the 'back of the queue' when it comes to dying in the USA's wars ?

    Well said.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Thing I've learned today:

    After 22 years in the planning, Farage’s great escape strategy ain’t up to much.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    another_richard said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    1st like Labour in latest polls

    Are new thoughts about Ched Evans ?
    Lets see what happens at the retrial
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    FPT but relevant to this thread so I shall repost:

    Things I've learned today:

    1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.

    2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.

    3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.

    4) Leave are not.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    There are some pretty upset Leavers indulging in hot headed ad hom attacks on Obama tonight. They ought to cool it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    You seriously think Obama's intervention will make any difference to the result?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Well, at least we know the Tories have lost their majority in 2020.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's complete BS* but it will work and is our special relationship in action. The President of the United States is doing the bidding of our Prime Minister to try and win a vote for our PM in a way that suits the US's own agenda.

    * Today it suits the US to have Remain win. If Leave win then faster than you can say Mississippi the US will accept the result and move on.

    Sounds like you are "Special"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:

    Any way the leavers can fuck this up?

    @faisalislam: Government minister Dominic Raab tells @skynews that "Barack Obama is a lame duck President"

    About the smartest thing a leaver can say, short of just taking the hit and moving on.

    Leavers whining about Obama will be about as successful as celebrities taking out an injunction. At the end of the day Cameron will still be standing, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    Just as it was obvious to all but the most deluded that Cameron was always going to advocate staying in the EU, so it is obvious that giving the UK beneficial trade deals post-Brexit is not going to be a priority for the US or any other major trading nation. This is realpolitik.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    nigel4england said:

    another_richard said:

    Would British military personnel also be at the 'back of the queue' when it comes to dying in the USA's wars ?

    Well said.
    There usually isn't a queue for that!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's complete BS* but it will work and is our special relationship in action. The President of the United States is doing the bidding of our Prime Minister to try and win a vote for our PM in a way that suits the US's own agenda.

    * Today it suits the US to have Remain win. If Leave win then faster than you can say Mississippi the US will accept the result and move on.

    Sounds like you are "Special"
    If you don't think America will look after number one regardless of how we vote then you definitely are.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    nigel4england said:

    another_richard said:

    Would British military personnel also be at the 'back of the queue' when it comes to dying in the USA's wars ?

    Well said.
    Yes,well said.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Well done Obama.

    You've managed to demean the position of US president and UK prime minister at the same time.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    SouthamObserver said:

    Just as it was obvious to all but the most deluded that Cameron was always going to advocate staying in the EU, so it is obvious that giving the UK beneficial trade deals post-Brexit is not going to be a priority for the US or any other major trading nation. This is realpolitik.

    Of course it will be in the US's interests. It just isn't in their interest to admit it right now. That is realpolitik.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Has it really come as a surprise to the Leave side that the US wants us to stay in the EU? Because they are certainly acting as though it has.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,188
    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's complete BS* but it will work and is our special relationship in action. The President of the United States is doing the bidding of our Prime Minister to try and win a vote for our PM in a way that suits the US's own agenda.

    * Today it suits the US to have Remain win. If Leave win then faster than you can say Mississippi the US will accept the result and move on.

    Oh yes, but most people won't appreciate that.

    An interesting finding from the Lord Ashcroft focus groups is how genuinely confused most people are as to why Cameron is backing Remain.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    Jonathan said:

    There are some pretty upset Leavers indulging in hot headed ad hom attacks on Obama tonight. They ought to cool it.

    Or what?
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    No surprise Trump up by six in Indiana.

    http://www.wthr.com/story/31792956/exclusive-wthrhpi-poll-trump-clinton-ahead-in-indiana
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Philip_Thompson said:

    malcolmg said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's complete BS* but it will work and is our special relationship in action. The President of the United States is doing the bidding of our Prime Minister to try and win a vote for our PM in a way that suits the US's own agenda.

    * Today it suits the US to have Remain win. If Leave win then faster than you can say Mississippi the US will accept the result and move on.

    Sounds like you are "Special"
    If you don't think America will look after number one regardless of how we vote then you definitely are.
    You're agreeing that the UK staying in the EU is to the US's advantage, and not necessarily ours.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Here we go. Leave.EU: "Obama doesn’t have authority to deny us a deal, as he will be long gone before any such proposals are on the table."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    you're explaining Mr Thompson
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    LondonBob said:

    No surprise Trump up by six in Indiana.

    http://www.wthr.com/story/31792956/exclusive-wthrhpi-poll-trump-clinton-ahead-in-indiana

    He will be a real president after two turkeys in a row.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MarkHopkins said:


    Well done Obama.

    You've managed to demean the position of US president and UK prime minister at the same time.

    If the President of the Unites States saying something that assists the strategic interests of both the United States and the UK (according to its PM) demeans both positions then that's an interesting take on the word demean.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Jonathan, perhaps they consider disparaging comments from a man purporting to be an ally (whilst the PM is a nodding dog) to be worthy of censure?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    chestnut said:

    Well, at least we know the Tories have lost their majority in 2020.

    NOM on Betfair hasn't moved. Must be value at 2.38?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alanbrooke said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    you're explaining Mr Thompson
    Indeed I am. It should be self-explanatory but some people can't see beyond their own wishes it seems. "Wah so and so said something I disagree with it's so unfair". It's safe space nonsense being displayed here, people crying because someone disagrees with them. Grow up *rolleyes*
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    Pretty dreadful tourism data released today.

    The monthly deficit having increased from £1.15bn in February 2014 to £1.26bn in February 2015 to £1.80bn in February 2016.

    There's a big fall in the sterling exchange rate heading this way.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourism/provisionalresultsforfebruary2016

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Another world leader made threats against Britain and Cameron stood next to him and smiled.

    He made threats against leave, not threats against Britain. Since Cameron is anti-leave why would he not smile? My enemies enemies is my friend afterall.
    If by any chance we do vote leave,the toad Cameron will be still PM and will have to deal with the back of the queue rant yank,so it is a threat against Britain.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    You'll vote for a party that wants tighter EU integration.

    Yup, that'll teach 'em.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,344
    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    As I said a few days ago I am definitely moving to a position of 'anyone but' with regard to the Tories. For someone who is a natural socially wet Tory that takes some doing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Tykejohnno said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Another world leader made threats against Britain and Cameron stood next to him and smiled.

    He made threats against leave, not threats against Britain. Since Cameron is anti-leave why would he not smile? My enemies enemies is my friend afterall.
    If by any chance we do vote leave,the toad Cameron will be still PM and will have to deal with the back of the queue rant yank,so it is a threat against Britain.
    Only if there is a smidgen chance that he actually meant it. Which there isn't as I've said.

    The US will always look after number one. If we leave it will be in the interests of the US to make a deal, so they will, but our decision hasn't been made yet so it is in the interests of the US to deny that they would today. The US has a way of reversing an established policy if it no longer suits its interests.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    NickPalmer said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I hope we meet at a PB meet. Your family background sounds very interesting.

    I am afraid, Ms Cyclefree, that Nick in person, nice though he is, is not as exotic as he sounds!
    Yes, I'm occasionally depressed that the exotic family background on both sides has produced no more than a semi-retired backbench MP - I feel I should have started a cult or led Cornwall to independence or something. Regression to the mean, eh?

    But Cyclefree and I did meet briefly at a play- certainly the most glamorous PB denizen I've come across. Meeting again at a PB do has definite appeal.
    The Cornish independence option's still worth a shot.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    I can't see a way for the REMAIN minority in the Tory party to avoid this civil war, a war they will find hard to win.

    Which is all jolly good news for Labour.

    Except the remainers currently hold all the positions of power. If they purge the "losers', what are they going to do? Defecting to UKIP will have been shown to be futile.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    tlg86 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    It's the fact that he's asked foreign leaders to threaten the British people that grates. As much as this annoys me as Obama is seen as being important, I'm still fuming from the intervention of that socialist idiot across the channel.
    What threats? Obama is simply telling the truth. Outside the EU the US would be less interested in us because we would be less useful to them. Just as we would be less interested in the US if they were less useful to us. That's how foreign policy works. I have not seen anything outrageous in what Obama has said. In fact what I have read up to now is that he's been reluctant to tell British voters the truth for fear it would backfire.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2016
    No Deal with US = No TTIP = No NHS Privatisation.

    The temptation for Corbyn must be astonishing.

    He could bring down Cameron and "Save the NHS" in one foul swoop.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    We will be in a queue of British nations making a trade deal with the US.

    I can live with being at at the back of that...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    Delusional .... unlike the British electorate when it comes to the prospect of PM Jezza.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    bigjohnowls said:

    another_richard said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    1st like Labour in latest polls

    Are new thoughts about Ched Evans ?
    Lets see what happens at the retrial
    Of course.

    But if Evans is acquitted then there's going to be a lot of people needing to make public apologies.

    And doubtless plenty of work for the lawyers.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2016
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    You seriously think Obama's intervention will make any difference to the result?
    No, I think Obama's intervention, clearly scripted by Mr D Cameron, is going to add to the bitterness and sense of betrayal in sceptic camps, which are mostly Tory.

    You could say, as many on here would: Project Whinge is at it again, let the frothers flail away as they go down to defeat, hahaha. But the fact is, LEAVE constitutes half Tory MPS, and most Tory activists and voters. It is most of the party.

    The Tory LEAVERS are going to be furious when they lose and they will want revenge, and given their greater strength they will do very serious damage. I can't see a way for the REMAIN minority in the Tory party to avoid this civil war, a war they will find hard to win.

    Which is all jolly good news for Labour.
    The Tory Leavers are going to be furious when they lose either way. Losers generally are upset when they're defeated. Best way for Remainers to win is to win this referendum big so that the issue is seen as well and truly closed. If Remain wins 2:1 (still possible on a high turnout) then sane Tory leavers will see the issue as closed.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Only if there is a smidgen chance that he actually meant it. Which there isn't as I've said.

    The US will always look after number one. If we leave it will be in the interests of the US to make a deal, so they will, but our decision hasn't been made yet so it is in the interests of the US to deny that they would today. The US has a way of reversing an established policy if it no longer suits its interests.

    It will be in the interests of the US to make a deal which favours the US. Even that might not be a priority over other trade deals.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    bigjohnowls said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    The big loser is the once proud United Kingdom as it's leader encourages further attacks on it by other world leaders to suit his own agenda.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    You'll vote for a party that wants tighter EU integration.

    Yup, that'll teach 'em.
    Well perhaps federalism wouldn't be all bad. We could dispense with our useless politicians.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    bigjohnowls said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    In the short term - yes but in the long run Cameron and his pro EU Tories will be the loser.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Still 6 weeks to go.

    Can someone die of Popcorn overload.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited April 2016
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What a Special Relationship.

    Obama says exactly what Cameron would have wanted him to say.

    Cameron must have real persuasive powers.

    The one where the British bend over and take is from the Yanks?
    Other EU leaders must be watching Cameron humiliating himself today, and thinking 'Right, we can do anything to him now. The bloke's a total pussy'.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    You seriously think Obama's intervention will make any difference to the result?
    No, I think Obama's intervention, clearly scripted by Mr D Cameron, is going to add to the bitterness and sense of betrayal in sceptic camps, which are mostly Tory.

    You could say, as many on here would: Project Whinge is at it again, let the frothers flail away as they go down to defeat, hahaha. But the fact is, LEAVE constitutes half Tory MPS, and most Tory activists and voters. It is most of the party.

    The Tory LEAVERS are going to be furious when they lose and they will want revenge, and given their greater strength they will do very serious damage. I can't see a way for the REMAIN minority in the Tory party to avoid this civil war, a war they will find hard to win.

    Which is all jolly good news for Labour.
    probably for the first time I could actually see the Tories splitting.

    Camron is lucky in so far as UKIP are headed by Farage. If UKIP got themselves a decent leader then the Tories would be in deep trouble.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    JackW said:

    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    Delusional .... unlike the British electorate when it comes to the prospect of PM Jezza.
    A great many ordinary folk may not like Corbyn very much, but Cameron will be plumbing the same depths soon. Is Cameron actually a proud Briton?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MarkHopkins said:


    Well done Obama.

    You've managed to demean the position of US president and UK prime minister at the same time.

    Total Bullshit Comment 5,193 .... and that's just this thread !!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. T, I agree.

    Cameron's ramping up the bitterness, deepening the divide. The Conservative tiff has become more serious and there's a risk of a proper civil war. It's also a great opportunity for a rapid return for the Lib Dems and winning seats for UKIP, because Labour's led by Corbyn.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,344
    AlastairMeeks said:

    FPT but relevant to this thread so I shall repost:

    Things I've learned today:

    1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.

    2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.

    3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.

    4) Leave are not.

    I think you are right on all those points. I would add another. Any chance Cameron had of ever hoping to reunite the Tory party after the referendum is disappearing very, very quickly.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    So, Obama tells a few home truths and there is an outpouring of bile and half/untruths.. Hardly surprising, leave = THE NASTY PARTY
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Only if there is a smidgen chance that he actually meant it. Which there isn't as I've said.

    The US will always look after number one. If we leave it will be in the interests of the US to make a deal, so they will, but our decision hasn't been made yet so it is in the interests of the US to deny that they would today. The US has a way of reversing an established policy if it no longer suits its interests.

    It will be in the interests of the US to make a deal which favours the US. Even that might not be a priority over other trade deals.
    The US is capable of multitasking, there is no "queue" or "priority". All that matters is how easily and readily a deal can be agreed. Realistically we are not going to struggle to make an agreement and once an agreement is signed it goes to Congress for approval, where it will be ratified.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    You'll vote for a party that wants tighter EU integration.

    Yup, that'll teach 'em.
    We might has well.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    Seems like that nice Mr Corbyn was right about the USA all along.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    Tykejohnno said:

    nigel4england said:

    another_richard said:

    Would British military personnel also be at the 'back of the queue' when it comes to dying in the USA's wars ?

    Well said.
    Yes,well said.
    Sadly they wont be.

    I suspect that any British PM we're likely to have would see British lives and British money a price worth paying for photostunts with the US President and the opportunity 'to sit at the top table'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Tykejohnno said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    In the short term - yes but in the long run Cameron and his pro EU Tories will be the loser.
    If they keep us in the EU, why should non-Tories care if there are long term consequences to Cameron and his clique? It's the short term outcome that concerns me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    There are some pretty upset Leavers indulging in hot headed ad hom attacks on Obama tonight. They ought to cool it.

    Or what?
    Not good for the hypertension
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I do love this argument that Cameron getting Obama to agree with him is demeaning to Cameron. Bravo!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dear Mr President,
    Go **** yourself.

    Sadly I have to agree. Can our next PM please be someone who is a proud defender of Britain.
    Our PM is defending Britain in the way he sees it. The British status quo that we have had for 40 years and sought for many years before then.

    It is the opposition that are seeking to change Britain by leaving the European project that for half a century we have either been or seeked to be members of. Why should the PM not defend our membership if he thinks its a good idea?
    you're explaining Mr Thompson
    Indeed I am. It should be self-explanatory but some people can't see beyond their own wishes it seems. "Wah so and so said something I disagree with it's so unfair". It's safe space nonsense being displayed here, people crying because someone disagrees with them. Grow up *rolleyes*
    No some people just see it differently from you.

    I see this as a sign of weakness, a UKPM needing help from all and sundry because he cant convince his own people of the merits of his own deal smacks of desperation not strength.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    tlg86 said:

    I will never vote Tory again. The Party is scum in my eyes. Out of spite I might vote Labour in 2020.

    Excellent. I do hope this will turn into the Scottish referendum in reverse - this time the Tories splitting not Labour.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    FPT but relevant to this thread so I shall repost:

    Things I've learned today:

    1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.

    2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.

    3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.

    4) Leave are not.

    I think you are right on all those points. I would add another. Any chance Cameron had of ever hoping to reunite the Tory party after the referendum is disappearing very, very quickly.
    I suspect the only way to reunite the Tory party is for either a leave win by even 1 vote or a remain landslide. Today helps the latter and thus helps the odds of Tory reunification (even if it is under a new PM).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    Philip_Thompson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Just as it was obvious to all but the most deluded that Cameron was always going to advocate staying in the EU, so it is obvious that giving the UK beneficial trade deals post-Brexit is not going to be a priority for the US or any other major trading nation. This is realpolitik.

    Of course it will be in the US's interests. It just isn't in their interest to admit it right now. That is realpolitik.

    Not really - does the US need more access to the UK market than it has now enough to give the UK more access to the US market than it has now? No, it has bigger fish to fry. And the same applies to all other major trading nations. They'll do a deal if we give them what they want whilst not giving us what we want, but otherwise they won't.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    nigel4england said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    The big loser is the once proud United Kingdom as it's leader encourages further attacks on it by other world leaders to suit his own agenda.
    Half the country supports his agenda. I hope slightly less than half, but it's close.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited April 2016
    .. on the other hand, lets look at how the US have utterly shafted BP.. some perspective is needed but not from the leave campaign.. that's nigh on impossible.
    .
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Root, it's not just Conservatives who are less than delighted with Obama.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JackW said:

    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    C'*nt Obama

    But REMAIN was always going to win. This will just make their victory slightly more emphatic, and much more envenomed. The fall-out after this "betrayal" could destroy the Tory party as we know it.
    .

    I love it. Two wins.
    Indeed. I think these are promising days for Labour. Ominously.

    Delusional .... unlike the British electorate when it comes to the prospect of PM Jezza.
    Assuming he hasn't stepped down before 2020.

    What then Jack?
This discussion has been closed.