The Associated Press @AP 5m5 minutes ago BREAKING: The Islamic State group has trained at least 400 fighters to target Europe in deadly waves, the AP has learned.
As always, I've never been more thankful for a Tory PM who shut the doors to unrestricted migrant movements into the country.
Though the brothers in Belgium were not migrants though, were they?
Neither were the 7/7 bombers, the Woolwich killers etc.
2nd prize for Leave's Project Fear campaign to SeanT , 1st prize to YossariansChild . Can be beaten though to 1st one who suggests blowing up the Channel Tunnel to help protect our borders .
'If you tolerate this, your kids will be next.' I protect my kids you vote Lib Dem - nuff said.
Idiot
Don't worry. When your kids ask you what did you do when Europe was being bombed by ISIS you can look them gravely in the eye, raise your head from the bar charts and say 'me? I was with Nick Clegg.' Im sure they'll respect you for it..
My daughter and family have just got back from Amsterdam , my son is off to Germany in a month's time . They relish the freedom of movement given them by EU membership .
I recently came back from a trip to the States. I plan a further two trips there this year. It was almost as easy as going on holiday to an EU member country.
Thankfully most people are holidaying further afield so whatever bizarre argument you are trying to make will not work with most people.
Exactly. If you have travelled abroad from the UK to the EU or South America or Africa (as I have) 'freedom of movement' makes F-all difference. Once inside Schengen Area of course you and your AK-47 can move freely. Not something I'd want here TBH.
Idiot , try carrying an AK-47 across a European border and see if you can do it .
Are you saying that it is impossible to carry an AK47 from, say, France to Belgium? Actually, genuinely, absolutely impossible for a motivated, well organised and batshit crazy terrorist?
Nope , nor is it impossible to carry an AK47 into the UK , land from a boat on a deserted beach and there you are . Im sure the IRA did it often enough .
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern. Might it be about money after all?
It also interferes with the golf and family activities at weekends. Have a heart for the poor people.
AFAIK the only airport in the World that does it is Israel
World of advice - keep it simple flying into Tel Aviv.
Last time I went I stopped off at Charles dd Gaulle for lunch with a friend. I then fly to Ben gurgling arrival conversation went like this:
Q. So why did you stop in Paris? A. To have lunch with a friend
Q. Anywhere nice? A. Nah. Just at the airport
Q. How long are you in Israel? A. I leave tomorrow
Q. What are you going to do?. A. Visit a biological manufacturing facility
Q. Would you mind waiting here for a moment? A. Ulp
Some years ago my wife, my yougest son and me went Heathrow to Tel Aviv with El Al and we were individually quized and then again at a second desk. I had my eldest sons wallet with the initials MCR on the front and it took enormous amount of time and questioning again individually to explain why it was not GJR my initials. The return from Tel Aviv was equally strict. Very impressive security
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Bureaucracy Rules.
Surprised they didn't also stop for breaks, because under the working time directive that officers must be allowed 15 min break every 2hrs....
Hey you guys in there killing everybody...it our break time now, please could you hold off on killing anybody else for 15, actually make it 20 minutes. And Pierre, that a lovely balaclava you have there and some very impressive weapons, but its not your turn to have a go yet. Back in the van and wait until we have tried first.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Within the EU we have no choice but to wave through anyone from the EU - for example the mates of the Brussels / Paris bombers cos they have EU passports. Outside the EU we can say 'sorry chum off you go'. Now since Merkel has stupidly opened Germany's door to all and since we know ISIS have targeted that route its clear yes staying in the EU means terrorism here is more likely, Vote Remain and terrorists are more likely to kill you and your kids.You may not like it but its true. Vote Remain and terrorists are more likely to come to the UK and kill you and your kids.
Germany is not handing out EU passports to refugees And British officials don't even have to "wave through" someone from Britain. Have a look at the Terrorism Acts.
Logistics. Do you know the difference between rocking up at Calais/Dunkirk and hiding weapons or getting a boat then sailing in a busy shipping lane then docking ashore in Shoreham or Brixham or wherever? Orders Of magnitude difference. Stick to traffic lights and pot holes my Lib Dem friend save the real issues to those that know.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
I was pretty annoyed to have to stand in a queue for 30 minutes before being scanned when entering Iceland from Canada a few months ago. It was the first time I've encountered scanning when entering a country.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern. Might it be about money after all?
It also interferes with the golf and family activities at weekends. Have a heart for the poor people.
I didn't realize that a medical qualification disbarred you from enjoying a family life at weekends.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
Same goes for middle east - ffs their shopping malls and hotels have that level of security.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Within the EU we have no choice but to wave through anyone from the EU - for example the mates of the Brussels / Paris bombers cos they have EU passports. Outside the EU we can say 'sorry chum off you go'. Now since Merkel has stupidly opened Germany's door to all and since we know ISIS have targeted that route its clear yes staying in the EU means terrorism here is more likely, Vote Remain and terrorists are more likely to kill you and your kids.You may not like it but its true. Vote Remain and terrorists are more likely to come to the UK and kill you and your kids.
Germany is not handing out EU passports to refugees And British officials don't even have to "wave through" someone from Britain. Have a look at the Terrorism Acts.
Let our Parliament decide who or who doesnt come through- not the EU.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern. Might it be about money after all?
It also interferes with the golf and family activities at weekends. Have a heart for the poor people.
I didn't realize that a medical qualification disbarred you from enjoying a family life at weekends.
No but they have a uman right to enjoy every weekend unless they are loaded up with gold everytime they work a Saturday. More importantly if a couple are both doctors then a 1 in 4 ratio can mean they get to only enjoy each other's company on 1 in 2 saturdays. Please have some sympathy.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Still retained their so called saturday social entitlement that is an insult to many low paid workers working normally at weekends - but then most of them do not play golf or run saturday wedding photograph businesses
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
'I was pretty annoyed to have to stand in a queue for 30 minutes before being scanned when entering Iceland from Canada a few months ago. It was the first time I've encountered scanning when entering a country.'
Good grief, if that sort of minor inconvenience bothers you we might as well give up and raise the white flag.
It is front page of the Telegraph. The right message for LEAVE to target for the readership of the Telegraph.
Hmm, and when Dearlove talks about terror threats he knows what he speaks about of course.... I can only imagine what would be said if a Remain supporter had made these comments previously.
"ISIS threat has been exaggerated, says former MI6 chief: Sir Richard Dearlove thinks 'pathetic' Britons spreading messages on internet should be ignored...
'Despite some of the blood-curdling claims made on our TV screens by young British jihadis... this new conflict is essentially Muslim on Muslim.....
'Counter-terrorism activity will remain an important requirement but it should no longer dominate our national security thinking and planning, rather a problem we have learned to live with"
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
'I was pretty annoyed to have to stand in a queue for 30 minutes before being scanned when entering Iceland from Canada a few months ago. It was the first time I've encountered scanning when entering a country.'
Good grief, if that sort of minor inconvenience bothers you we might as well give up and raise the white flag.
The point is that Iceland isn't going to be a target for terrorists. It was an example of the best security at the least likely place to be attacked, and vice versa with Brussels.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Bureaucracy Rules.
Surprised they didn't also stop for breaks, because under the working time directive that officers must be allowed 15 min break every 2hrs....
I guess it is really easy to second guess the actions of bureaucracies, security services and individuals during a time of extreme crisis and split second decisions. Looking in from the outside, it's easy to see the French and Belgian security forces as inept and comical. I wouldn't want to be one of the guys or girls having to make the decisions, or actively assaulting a place like the Bataclan, with little planning, and no real situational awareness of what you're up against. Of course mistakes have been made, and opportunities missed, but I've read that the Belgian police have been under funded and under manned, due to austerity budgets, something that has affected UK Police forces significantly as well.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
In 2013 1,713 people were killed in reported road traffic accidents in Great Britain. An average of 33 per week.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Which part do you have a problem with?
Reference to British deaths on roads
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Bureaucracy Rules.
Surprised they didn't also stop for breaks, because under the working time directive that officers must be allowed 15 min break every 2hrs....
I guess it is really easy to second guess the actions of bureaucracies, security services and individuals during a time of extreme crisis and split second decisions. Looking in from the outside, it's easy to see the French and Belgian security forces as inept and comical. I wouldn't want to be one of the guys or girls having to make the decisions, or actively assaulting a place like the Bataclan, with little planning, and no real situational awareness of what you're up against. Of course mistakes have been made, and opportunities missed, but I've read that the Belgian police have been under funded and under manned, due to austerity budgets, something that has affected UK Police forces significantly as well.
Oh come off it...If it happens in the UK, and 40 of the SAS finest are sitting outside they are going in...well unless Corbyn is in charge and then he will say we should go and ask them if they want to join us for a cuppa.
Remember also Panorama revealed the likes of the British and French knew something like this was coming. They got lucky and a total idiot shot himself and they found a car full of weapons and the guy spilled the beans of what the general idea would be.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
We have a major recruitment and retention crisis in British Medicine. Ignore it if you choose. David Cameron may not find the results of Hunts contract to his taste, when the staff shortages hit. A paycut for more antisocial hours? Would you be surprised if the vacancy rate didn't get out of control?
Schipol has only recently discontinued the ability of travellers to be able to get right to the gate and the aircraft before the first security check was completed on entering the gate waiting area . It had been like it since I started flying out of there in 1976.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...40 of them waiting for 2hrs.
They interviewed the French SAS commander and said this is true, in France, we have to be requested by the police and they did not ask us.
In comparison, the Belgian has in the past (and now) are using them a lot because they know their security services are useless. Panorama gave a specific example of where the French raided and took down a terror cell.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Which part do you have a problem with?
Reference to British deaths on roads
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
15 000 deaths from fuel poverty last winter. Puts any terrorist outrage into perspective.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
In 2013 1,713 people were killed in reported road traffic accidents in Great Britain. An average of 33 per week.
The number has been dropping over the years thankfully (in my head I remembered 6 / day). Doesn't undermine the main point though.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Which part do you have a problem with?
Reference to British deaths on roads
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
It is insensitive to attempt to diminish the horror of the last few days
The point is that Iceland isn't going to be a target for terrorists. It was an example of the best security at the least likely place to be attacked, and vice versa with Brussels.
Ah but likelihood of being attacked is partly down to security, so it follows that generally the places with effective security should be deterring attacks and vice versa.
If we had Belgian style security and policing we would probably have had quite a lot more successful attacks here.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...40 of them waiting for 2hrs.
They interviewed the French SAS commander and said this is true, we have to be requested by the police and they did not ask us.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...
I'm not an expert, but I don't think special forces can rock up, pull on their gloves and boots like Schwarzenegger in Commando, and then just chase after the baddies, shooting from the hip and tossing grenades. I'd guess they have to have a bit of a plan, and an idea of what is going on first.
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
I have to point out that MI6 do foreign human intelligence gathering, not border control. Sir Richard has the same qualifications to pronounce on how to secure a border as my dead granny does. If it was Home Office, MI5 or Special Branch, then that'd be different.
Looking in from the outside, it's easy to see the French and Belgian security forces as inept and comical.
The French are not at all inept, they have foiled many major plots. In the EU France is the UK's real peer when it comes to counter-terrorism. Belgium's problem is lack of expertise perhaps due to a bit of naivety and lack of need in the past.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...40 of them waiting for 2hrs.
They interviewed the French SAS commander and said this is true, we have to be requested by the police and they did not ask us.
A truly disgusting state of affairs.
Isn't that the same as British policy?
Armchair warriors are good at ignoring the practical issues in a rapidly evolving multi-site horror due to the fog of war.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...
I'm not an expert, but I don't think special forces can rock up, pull on their gloves and boots like Schwarzenegger in Commando, and then just chase after the baddies, shooting from the hip and tossing grenades. I'd guess they have to have a bit of a plan, and an idea of what is going on first.
Again not what I am saying. Did you watch the Panorama? They interviewed the French SAS commander...
The authorities knew this was coming.
It had already set in motion with the stadium bombing and cafe shooting.
40 French SAS wouldn't have just been driving around Paris on a night out would they. They were sent there and police declined to ask them to go in. French red tape means they had to just sit there and wait, which they did.
I remember seeing the pictures on the night and thinking wow the French police are really trying to get to the building with hand guns...they were forced back repeatedly as they didn't have the firepower.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
How in any way would that situation be different if we were not in the EU?
It is insensitive to attempt to diminish the horror of the last few days
It is not diminishing anything to provide a fair and accurate context.
Just like one plane crash may be more horrible than any of tens of thousands of car crashes but overall air travel is in context still safer. It doesn't demean anyone, all these deaths are tragedies but we shouldn't only react or care about the high profile incidents.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...
I'm not an expert, but I don't think special forces can rock up, pull on their gloves and boots like Schwarzenegger in Commando, and then just chase after the baddies, shooting from the hip and tossing grenades. I'd guess they have to have a bit of a plan, and an idea of what is going on first.
Agreed
I suspect though they could do it very fast and be a damn sight better at it than Plod. That's after all what they are trained to do and by the time they got there they would have the complete layout and initial plan already sorted. That's before they stop for a brew and a fag of course.
I was pretty annoyed to have to stand in a queue for 30 minutes before being scanned when entering Iceland from Canada a few months ago. It was the first time I've encountered scanning when entering a country.
I love being scanned. When I went thru Dallas/Fort Worth they had a big cylindrical glass scanner: I damn nearly asked to go in. I figure I do it enough times, I get a superpower.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
We have a major recruitment and retention crisis in British Medicine. Ignore it if you choose. David Cameron may not find the results of Hunts contract to his taste, when the staff shortages hit. A paycut for more antisocial hours? Would you be surprised if the vacancy rate didn't get out of control?
It'll sort itself out.
Overpaid, unreformed working practices and methods, inefficient systems and frequently poor outcomes.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Which part do you have a problem with?
Reference to British deaths on roads
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
It is insensitive to attempt to diminish the horror of the last few days
Or perhaps I'm just putting the facts in perspective.
Oh come off it...If it happens in the UK, and 40 of the SAS finest are sitting outside they are going in...well unless Corbyn is in charge and then he will say we should go and ask them if they want to join us for a cuppa.
By the time the SAS rock up it might be too late. We might have the best, but France has greater depth. It took about 15 minutes to get any armed police to the murder of Lee Rigby, never mind the sort or forces that could fight a gun battle with heavily armed and suicidal Jihadists.
There is a laxness in the smaller airports in Europe. However Brussels I would expect to be on par with Heathrow given the number of high profile targets that pass through.
There is no security screening before check in
Is there a UK airport that does that?
Antalya airport was screening everyone before you got into the building when I was there in March 2006.
In India (Delhi) I had to show my passport and boarding pass to a soldier to get into the terminal
We were putting our shoes etc through the scanner within 10 yards of getting off the bus.
Yes, this is standard in Asian and some African airports. They have better security than US
You are scanned maybe three or four times. The first is before you even enter the airport.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
Not sure that comment is in the best of taste at present
Which part do you have a problem with?
Reference to British deaths on roads
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
It is insensitive to attempt to diminish the horror of the last few days
Or perhaps I'm just putting the facts in perspective.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
We have a major recruitment and retention crisis in British Medicine. Ignore it if you choose. David Cameron may not find the results of Hunts contract to his taste, when the staff shortages hit. A paycut for more antisocial hours? Would you be surprised if the vacancy rate didn't get out of control?
No surprise. But we should let the market sort out the package of pay that is required. Assuming that is that doctors are really driven by pay, which most are.
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...
I'm not an expert, but I don't think special forces can rock up, pull on their gloves and boots like Schwarzenegger in Commando, and then just chase after the baddies, shooting from the hip and tossing grenades. I'd guess they have to have a bit of a plan, and an idea of what is going on first.
Agreed
I suspect though they could do it very fast and be a damn sight better at it than Plod. That's after all what they are trained to do and by the time they got there they would have the complete layout and initial plan already sorted. That's before they stop for a brew and a fag of course.
It wasn't the average French plod who did the storming. It was the paramilitary BRI. Brave men and good shots too.
Oh come off it...If it happens in the UK, and 40 of the SAS finest are sitting outside they are going in...well unless Corbyn is in charge and then he will say we should go and ask them if they want to join us for a cuppa.
By the time the SAS rock up it might be too late. We might have the best, but France has greater depth. It took about 15 minutes to get any armed police to the murder of Lee Rigby, never mind the sort or forces that could fight a gun battle with heavily armed and suicidal Jihadists.
That wasn't my point...my point was they were there, because remember the Bataclan didn't happen straight away. First the stadium bombs, then the cafe shooting, then the Bataclan.
Also, in recent years, since it has become clear that this sort of attack is likely, it seems that it is what we are going to have the SAS try and do. If we have enough sitting in the UK, I don't know.
The point is 40 of the French most elite special forces sat and twiddled their thumbs for 2 hours why the French police made repeated failed attempts to get in.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
We have a major recruitment and retention crisis in British Medicine. Ignore it if you choose. David Cameron may not find the results of Hunts contract to his taste, when the staff shortages hit. A paycut for more antisocial hours? Would you be surprised if the vacancy rate didn't get out of control?
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Andrew Neil @afneil Andrew Neil Retweeted Colm How about I just block you for being an ignorant, total tosser? Oh! I just have. Feel better already.
Colm @CMcKenna81 @afneil go fuck your self bacon lugs. How about a show about how these people where supported, trained and funded by British agencies??
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
What a difference? The NHS being run for the convenience of doctors and other staff. I bet that rarely happens?
We have a major recruitment and retention crisis in British Medicine. Ignore it if you choose. David Cameron may not find the results of Hunts contract to his taste, when the staff shortages hit. A paycut for more antisocial hours? Would you be surprised if the vacancy rate didn't get out of control?
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
I have to point out that MI6 do foreign human intelligence gathering, not border control. Sir Richard has the same qualifications to pronounce on how to secure a border as my dead granny does. If it was Home Office, MI5 or Special Branch, then that'd be different.
That is not true. I had exactly the same thought tonight when I heard some female Belgian politico wittering on about a single intelligence force for the EU and the mandatory sharing of information by member states. I thought like hell will MI6 be exposing sources or techniques or capabilities to this bunch of amateurs.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Do the British government still fine the lorry drive/company of lorry for every migrant that get through ?
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
They should be driven straight to a secure immigration detention centre. Not released.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Seems quite.....extreme?
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
I am still totally stunned that the French police commanders thought that leaving 40 of the best trained, best armed, special force professionals to sit around for 2hrs having a fag break because protocol dictates that the local plod have to have a go first was the way to approach the Bataclan hostage situation.
Is that actually true and not exaggerated?
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
That is exactly how it was reported by Panorama....and they showed footage of the French SAS arriving and suiting up...and waiting...
I'm not an expert, but I don't think special forces can rock up, pull on their gloves and boots like Schwarzenegger in Commando, and then just chase after the baddies, shooting from the hip and tossing grenades. I'd guess they have to have a bit of a plan, and an idea of what is going on first.
Agreed
I suspect though they could do it very fast and be a damn sight better at it than Plod. That's after all what they are trained to do and by the time they got there they would have the complete layout and initial plan already sorted. That's before they stop for a brew and a fag of course.
It wasn't the average French plod who did the storming. It was the paramilitary BRI. Brave men and good shots too.
Eventually...again it wasn't them to start with. The French SAS commander seems extremely unimpressed in the interview, but maybe that just a French thing.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
How in any way would that situation be different if we were not in the EU?
Because we could control our borders however we wished.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Seems quite.....extreme?
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
What else can they do to attempt to stop imposition?
Public sympathy is nice, but not essential to win a dispute, just look at the tube drivers.
The new strikes are timed for the week before the elections. More in May and June I suspect. One more hassle that the Cameroons don't need.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Bang on. How has this been allowed to happen? Our politicians have let us down. They now have a choice. Step up to the plate or stand aside.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
How in any way would that situation be different if we were not in the EU?
Because we could control our borders however we wished.
These people are already entering illegally without papers. What would be different if we left the EU? Would your army of visa clerks and unicorns evaporate them with a death-ray?
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
How in any way would that situation be different if we were not in the EU?
Because we could control our borders however we wished.
These people are already entering illegally without papers. What would be different if we left the EU? Would your army of visa clerks and unicorns evaporate them with a death-ray?
In terms of deportation it wouldn't make any difference. Not unless the government were to tear up lots of conventions, rewrite a load of laws and cherry pick bits of international law we want, which they aren't going to.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Do the British government still fine the lorry drive/company of lorry for every migrant that get through ?
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Bang on. How has this been allowed to happen? Our politicians have let us down. They now have a choice. Step up to the plate or stand aside.
I noted one report indicated the nationalities. Unusual because they normally destroy all documents. I think they should be sent back to point of embarkation though. They won't be so they made it. They will be overjoyed and just more people are taxes have to pay for, NHS has to deal with and public services already overstretched have to accommodate.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Seems quite.....extreme?
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
What else can they do to attempt to stop imposition?
Public sympathy is nice, but not essential to win a dispute, just look at the tube drivers.
The new strikes are timed for the week before the elections. More in May and June I suspect. One more hassle that the Cameroons don't need.
They could stop trying to resist and accept it, and, you know, do the work that they claim to have a vocation for. The profession for which the taxpayer has born much of the cost of the training....
But more seriously, I think the Docs union have played this very, very badly from the start. I think the number of Docs who boycott this strike will be far higher than in previous strikes. Confidence in BMA leadership must be low...
I hate to piss on this middle-class establishment parade but smuggling anything through Schengen Area borders is easy. Though into the UK its harder - you need to buy scented candles to distract any sniffer dogs - not that there are any - but just in case you know.
I was on my way to the Indian Ocean not so long ago, and found to my surprise a sniffer dog paying attention my groin at Heathrow.
I had a reasonable amount of ready cash in my hip pocket, and I was asked to account for it because of the dog which could apparently smell bank notes
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Bang on. How has this been allowed to happen? Our politicians have let us down. They now have a choice. Step up to the plate or stand aside.
I noted one report indicated the nationalities. Unusual because they normally destroy all documents. I think they should be sent back to point of embarkation though. They won't be so they made it. They will be overjoyed and just more people are taxes have to pay for, NHS has to deal with and public services already overstretched have to accommodate.
Well quite. Its not just the few who will get through to attack us its the many who abuse our hospitality for free health care, education and benefits. Enough.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The question is what would change post-Brexit to prevent said terrorists entering. The UK retains the right to have whatever border controls it wishes and prevent whomsoever it wishes from entering: freedom of movement is a general thing, not a specific thing and individuals can be stopped. There is controversy concerning the use of human rights preventing deportation of individuals *from* the UK, but a) that's not EU and b) that's *from* the UK, not entering it. The reason why the GB borders are so porous are expense and logistics: a shedload of people arrive every day thru tens of ports and airports. And that's not even considering the Ireland-Northern Ireland border, which is entirely porous: there's a motorway going thru it.
You have stated that Parliament should be able to decide who it lets in to the UK. Fine. But it already has that power. It could demand a background check and three references from every single entrant if it wanted, without having to leave the EU. There are some impositions resulting from EU membership but if Cameron said tomorrow "Right. I'm closing all the ports and airports in UK indefinitely, nah-nah-na-na-nah" he could do it.
If you're advocating stopping all Muslims (for example) entering the UK, then I think that would be difficult whilst in the EU - although then you're in the thorny problem of how do you tell who is and is not a Muslim. But if you're advocating preventing specific individuals entering the UK, then that will not be made easier by Brexit, it'll be made worse.
I apologise if I have told this story before but the friend of a friend of mine was visiting a client in the State Hospital at Carstairs. He put his briefcase through the security check which is identical to that of an airport. He glanced down at the screen whilst taking off his belt and there in his bag was a gun.
He nearly had a heart attack, crying out, "I don't know anything about that."
"Not to worry sir," said the guard who clicked on the gun which immediately disappeared. Apparently this is done to make sure that people staring at screens all day don't fail to look. He claims his heart beat was back to normal after about 20 minutes or so.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Seems quite.....extreme?
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
Once again, you are (wrongly, IMO) conflating "the public will support the strikes less" with "the public will start blaming the doctors rather than the government for the strikes".
I hate to piss on this middle-class establishment parade but smuggling anything through Schengen Area borders is easy. Though into the UK its harder - you need to buy scented candles to distract any sniffer dogs - not that there are any - but just in case you know.
I was on my way to the Indian Ocean not so long ago, and found to my surprise a sniffer dog paying attention my groin at Heathrow.
I had a reasonable amount of ready cash in my hip pocket, and I was asked to account for it because of the dog which could apparently smell bank notes
You know that what gets me most. When im in South America or Africa (and ive lived in both) offering a bribe to some godforsaken foot soldier annoys yet its pennies really, in the EU I get away with monumental shenanigans cos 'free movement' 'citizen of the EU' etc . and it all goes either into my pocket or the EU.
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The doors on that Lorry should be slammed shut, locked and the lorry parked up for a fortnight.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Do the British government still fine the lorry drive/company of lorry for every migrant that get through ?
At the moment Syria is serving the same function as fascist Spain did for the International Brigade. It gives some young men the glamour and excitement Bradford and Molenbeek can't match.
The solution to making Europe safe again is to give the Assad regime the arms and the means to take back his country. If the Western alies hadn't been so keen to weaken Syria Iraq and Libya ISIS wouldn't and couldn't exist.
These people are already entering illegally without papers. What would be different if we left the EU? Would your army of visa clerks and unicorns evaporate them with a death-ray?
If Europeans stopped flowing in at 300,000 a year, it's reasonable to assume that the border force might find itself with considerably more time and resources to tackle what's left, isn't it?
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
I have to point out that MI6 do foreign human intelligence gathering, not border control. Sir Richard has the same qualifications to pronounce on how to secure a border as my dead granny does. If it was Home Office, MI5 or Special Branch, then that'd be different.
That is not true. I had exactly the same thought tonight when I heard some female Belgian politico wittering on about a single intelligence force for the EU and the mandatory sharing of information by member states. I thought like hell will MI6 be exposing sources or techniques or capabilities to this bunch of amateurs.
Although I am under the impression that my statements were entirely true, which one were you referring to: the scope of MI6 or the scope of HO/MI5/SB (or whatever it's called these days)?
It has some strange figures. The 65+ results show a narrow lead for LEAVE. Way out of line for the other polls I have seen. Similar out of line figures for 55+ Maybe suitable samples for these age groups are not available to phone calling due to ex directory and tps etc etc?
Or maybe online samples aren't representative.
They all have a big question mark as none appear to have stated that they have fully implemented improvements. The Comres turnout numbers reduce the sample to just 562 for GB.
Comres was the most accurate general election pollster
Vote Remain to let in terrorists to kill you and your kids. Im no Crosby but im guessing thats not a winning message. If you want to play Project Fear make sure your opponent's cant out Trump you.
The question is what would change post-Brexit to prevent said terrorists entering. The UK retains the right to have whatever border controls it wishes and prevent whomsoever it wishes from entering: freedom of movement is a general thing, not a specific thing and individuals can be stopped. There is controversy concerning the use of human rights preventing deportation of individuals *from* the UK, but a) that's not EU and b) that's *from* the UK, not entering it. The reason why the GB borders are so porous are expense and logistics: a shedload of people arrive every day thru tens of ports and airports. And that's not even considering the Ireland-Northern Ireland border, which is entirely porous: there's a motorway going thru it.
You have stated that Parliament should be able to decide who it lets in to the UK. Fine. But it already has that power. It could demand a background check and three references from every single entrant if it wanted, without having to leave the EU. There are some impositions resulting from EU membership but if Cameron said tomorrow "Right. I'm closing all the ports and airports in UK indefinitely, nah-nah-na-na-nah" he could do it.
If you're advocating stopping all Muslims (for example) entering the UK, then I think that would be difficult whilst in the EU - although then you're in the thorny problem of how do you tell who is and is not a Muslim. But if you're advocating preventing specific individuals entering the UK, then that will not be made easier by Brexit, it'll be made worse.
Thank you for that very reasoned post. My view is that out of the EU our politicians (who I blame for this - regardless of party) would without the EU figleaf be much more likely to be held accountable. And accountability is central to any democracy.
I really don't understand the Docs' reasoning here. By the same logic, if it is going to be imposed what is the point of strikes? It exposes mass resignations as an empty threat. And it suggests that patient safety is not the main concern.
Might it be about money after all?
The point is to stop imposition of an unreasonable contract. Note that the BMA's counterproposal was cost neutral.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Seems quite.....extreme?
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
What else can they do to
They could stop trying to resist and accept it, and, you know, do the work that they claim to have a vocation for. The profession for which the taxpayer has born much of the cost of the training....
But more seriously, I think the Docs union have played this very, very badly from the start. I think the number of Docs who boycott this strike will be far higher than in previous strikes. Confidence in BMA leadership must be low...
The locums won't strike, and some of the more senior ones will not either, if they will be Consultants within the year. Others will get to strike for the first time in places like A/E.
From what I see, the only complaint that the Juniors have about the leadership is that they have not been militant enough. The dispute will continue, and take new forms. Removal of goodwill is a pretty toxic thing in a personnel based organisation. It is going to be a very poorly motivated workforce, interested in doing only the bare minimum to get their ticket out.
One thing is that no-one from the DoH or Trust management has asked anyone who writes the rotas (me for my dept) whether it would be useful to increase weekend cover and if so, by how much. My informal enquires indicate that this is true for other specialities. Neither has any of the juniors been told what their pay will be in 4 months time as the contract is just an outline with hardly any detail.
If there was a real plan then surely these should have been worked out before a contract was imposed, not least because it may not match what is required!
A PR boss who asked a Muslim woman to 'explain Brussels' has been arrested on suspicion of inciting racial hatred.
Matthew Doyle, an LSE alumnus and partner at a south London-based talent agency, sparked outrage on social media after he 'confronted' a Muslim woman about the Brussels attacks which killed 34 people.
He wrote on Twitter: 'I confronted a Muslim woman in Croydon yesterday. I asked her to explain Brussels. She said "nothing to do with me". A mealy mouthed reply.'
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove refuses to participate in Project Lie
'Though the UK participates in various European and Brussels-based security bodies, they are of little consequence.'
'Sir Richard said national security was served by international cooperation but only with trusted allies and not the entire EU as this leaked information like a 'colander'.'
I have to point out that MI6 do foreign human intelligence gathering, not border control. Sir Richard has the same qualifications to pronounce on how to secure a border as my dead granny does. If it was Home Office, MI5 or Special Branch, then that'd be different.
That is not true. I had exactly the same thought tonight when I heard some female Belgian politico wittering on about a single intelligence force for the EU and the mandatory sharing of information by member states. I thought like hell will MI6 be exposing sources or techniques or capabilities to this bunch of amateurs.
Although I am under the impression that my statements were entirely true, which one were you referring to: the scope of MI6 or the scope of HO/MI5/SB (or whatever it's called these days)?
The idea that a former head of MI6 knew no more about border security than your dead granny
You know that what gets me most. When im in South America or Africa (and ive lived in both) offering a bribe to some godforsaken foot soldier annoys yet its pennies really, in the EU I get away with monumental shenanigans cos 'free movement' 'citizen of the EU' etc . and it all goes either into my pocket or the EU.
I've read that three times and I still don't understand it. You're unhappy that when travelling in Europe, bribes go into your own pocket or the EU? What? Can you rephrase?
Comments
Bureaucracy Rules.
Hey you guys in there killing everybody...it our break time now, please could you hold off on killing anybody else for 15, actually make it 20 minutes. And Pierre, that a lovely balaclava you have there and some very impressive weapons, but its not your turn to have a go yet. Back in the van and wait until we have tried first.
But isn't that what the terrorists want? To have so much security that it takes away our freedoms?
More people will die on Britain's roads this week, than died in the Belgium outrage.
(Just for perspective, not diminishing what the victims went through).
And British officials don't even have to "wave through" someone from Britain. Have a look at the Terrorism Acts.
Logistics. Do you know the difference between rocking up at Calais/Dunkirk and hiding weapons or getting a boat then sailing in a busy shipping lane then docking ashore in Shoreham or Brixham or wherever? Orders Of magnitude difference. Stick to traffic lights and pot holes my Lib Dem friend save the real issues to those that know.
There will be some major gaps in staffing in August. People are voting with their feet.
Which part do you have a problem with?
Good grief, if that sort of minor inconvenience bothers you we might as well give up and raise the white flag.
"ISIS threat has been exaggerated, says former MI6 chief: Sir Richard Dearlove thinks 'pathetic' Britons spreading messages on internet should be ignored...
'Despite some of the blood-curdling claims made on our TV screens by young British jihadis... this new conflict is essentially Muslim on Muslim.....
'Counter-terrorism activity will remain an important requirement but it should no longer dominate our national security thinking and planning, rather a problem we have learned to live with"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2684077/ISIS-threat-exaggerated-says-former-MI6-chief-Sir-Richard-Dearlove-thinks-pathetic-Britons-spreading-messages-internet-ignored.html#ixzz43lbsHUa6
I wouldn't want to be one of the guys or girls having to make the decisions, or actively assaulting a place like the Bataclan, with little planning, and no real situational awareness of what you're up against.
Of course mistakes have been made, and opportunities missed, but I've read that the Belgian police have been under funded and under manned, due to austerity budgets, something that has affected UK Police forces significantly as well.
France and Belgium seemed to be weighed down with so much unnecessary bureaucracy that it is resulting in the needless deaths of countless people. I wonder how many other EU member states are bureaucratic nightmares.
http://blog.englishelections.org.uk/2016/03/by-election-previews-24-march-2016.html
Why? It's a fair comparison to put the number of deaths into perspective.
Would you prefer to compare to the number of needless death from diabetes, caused by poor diet? Cause that's atrocious.
Oh, and the deaths on the roads is every week. Not just this one.
Remember also Panorama revealed the likes of the British and French knew something like this was coming. They got lucky and a total idiot shot himself and they found a car full of weapons and the guy spilled the beans of what the general idea would be.
It's certainly going to be like this for a long time.
They interviewed the French SAS commander and said this is true, in France, we have to be requested by the police and they did not ask us.
In comparison, the Belgian has in the past (and now) are using them a lot because they know their security services are useless. Panorama gave a specific example of where the French raided and took down a terror cell.
If we had Belgian style security and policing we would probably have had quite a lot more successful attacks here.
Armchair warriors are good at ignoring the practical issues in a rapidly evolving multi-site horror due to the fog of war.
The authorities knew this was coming.
It had already set in motion with the stadium bombing and cafe shooting.
40 French SAS wouldn't have just been driving around Paris on a night out would they. They were sent there and police declined to ask them to go in. French red tape means they had to just sit there and wait, which they did.
I remember seeing the pictures on the night and thinking wow the French police are really trying to get to the building with hand guns...they were forced back repeatedly as they didn't have the firepower.
Just like one plane crash may be more horrible than any of tens of thousands of car crashes but overall air travel is in context still safer. It doesn't demean anyone, all these deaths are tragedies but we shouldn't only react or care about the high profile incidents.
I suspect though they could do it very fast and be a damn sight better at it than Plod. That's after all what they are trained to do and by the time they got there they would have the complete layout and initial plan already sorted. That's before they stop for a brew and a fag of course.
Overpaid, unreformed working practices and methods, inefficient systems and frequently poor outcomes.
Apart from that all is well.
Apart from dire use of resources
Or perhaps I'm just putting the facts in perspective.
Which is reasonable thing to do on this site.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/11/17/this-is-the-battle-worn-shield-police-apparently-used-to-storm-the-bataclan-theater-in-paris/
Also, in recent years, since it has become clear that this sort of attack is likely, it seems that it is what we are going to have the SAS try and do. If we have enough sitting in the UK, I don't know.
The point is 40 of the French most elite special forces sat and twiddled their thumbs for 2 hours why the French police made repeated failed attempts to get in.
I am THROUGH with people getting into our country like this.
Andrew Neil @afneil
Andrew Neil Retweeted Mark Leighton
I'm not aware that Paris or Brussels has cut any police officers #twat
Mark Leighton @Leightowolf
@afneil @BBCPanorama perhaps the cutting of over 17,000 police officers didn't help?
Andrew Neil @afneil
Andrew Neil Retweeted Colm
How about I just block you for being an ignorant, total tosser? Oh! I just have. Feel better already.
Colm @CMcKenna81
@afneil go fuck your self bacon lugs. How about a show about how these people where supported, trained and funded by British agencies??
The IPSOS polling shows how sentiments change when the idea of all out strikes are raised.
I'm not sure how losing sympathy is meant to help stop imposition?
Public sympathy is nice, but not essential to win a dispute, just look at the tube drivers.
The new strikes are timed for the week before the elections. More in May and June I suspect. One more hassle that the Cameroons don't need.
Perhaps it's time illegal entry of this sort was made an imprisonable offence followed by mandatory deportation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-palmyra-civil-war-unesco-world-heritage-site-assad-a6948706.html
But more seriously, I think the Docs union have played this very, very badly from the start. I think the number of Docs who boycott this strike will be far higher than in previous strikes. Confidence in BMA leadership must be low...
I had a reasonable amount of ready cash in my hip pocket, and I was asked to account for it because of the dog which could apparently smell bank notes
You have stated that Parliament should be able to decide who it lets in to the UK. Fine. But it already has that power. It could demand a background check and three references from every single entrant if it wanted, without having to leave the EU. There are some impositions resulting from EU membership but if Cameron said tomorrow "Right. I'm closing all the ports and airports in UK indefinitely, nah-nah-na-na-nah" he could do it.
If you're advocating stopping all Muslims (for example) entering the UK, then I think that would be difficult whilst in the EU - although then you're in the thorny problem of how do you tell who is and is not a Muslim. But if you're advocating preventing specific individuals entering the UK, then that will not be made easier by Brexit, it'll be made worse.
He nearly had a heart attack, crying out, "I don't know anything about that."
"Not to worry sir," said the guard who clicked on the gun which immediately disappeared. Apparently this is done to make sure that people staring at screens all day don't fail to look. He claims his heart beat was back to normal after about 20 minutes or so.
The solution to making Europe safe again is to give the Assad regime the arms and the means to take back his country. If the Western alies hadn't been so keen to weaken Syria Iraq and Libya ISIS wouldn't and couldn't exist.
From what I see, the only complaint that the Juniors have about the leadership is that they have not been militant enough. The dispute will continue, and take new forms. Removal of goodwill is a pretty toxic thing in a personnel based organisation. It is going to be a very poorly motivated workforce, interested in doing only the bare minimum to get their ticket out.
One thing is that no-one from the DoH or Trust management has asked anyone who writes the rotas (me for my dept) whether it would be useful to increase weekend cover and if so, by how much. My informal enquires indicate that this is true for other specialities. Neither has any of the juniors been told what their pay will be in 4 months time as the contract is just an outline with hardly any detail.
If there was a real plan then surely these should have been worked out before a contract was imposed, not least because it may not match what is required!
Matthew Doyle, an LSE alumnus and partner at a south London-based talent agency, sparked outrage on social media after he 'confronted' a Muslim woman about the Brussels attacks which killed 34 people.
He wrote on Twitter: 'I confronted a Muslim woman in Croydon yesterday. I asked her to explain Brussels. She said "nothing to do with me". A mealy mouthed reply.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3506275/Publicity-boss-asked-Muslim-woman-street-explain-Brussels-deluged-angry-hilarious-Tweets-reply.html
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