It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
Isn't that a paradox though. They have a massive amount of freedom here in comparison to that which would be available had they been living in other societies elsewhere. Yet despite that available freedom and acceptance by the host they still seek in many ways to overturn this and a very few even wish to destroy this freedom using violence.
Angry, violent young people are not always the brightest buttons. See also members of the hard left using Twitter to denounce capitalism.
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
Isn't that a paradox though. They have a massive amount of freedom here in comparison to that which would be available had they been living in other societies elsewhere. Yet despite that available freedom and acceptance by the host they still seek in many ways to overturn this and a very few even wish to destroy this freedom using violence.
You & I see freedom of conscience as a positive. We do so because of the Enlightenment, a cultural phenomenon which excludes many Muslims. (By their own choice, of course.)
ISIS smuggler says more than 4,000 covert gunmen have been smuggled into western nations amongst refugees | Mirror https://t.co/j0FHMvemhP
Not so stupid of Dave to only accept those from the camps in/near Syria.
This is what should always have been done of course yet Cameron was regularly castigated for it. However the internal situation also has to be resolved allowing people to return.
If the amount of money now being wasted controlling this flow of migrants had been put into the camps the border would look like Sharm el Sheik. As it is we have what we now have and Europe is effectively changed forever as many of these will never return. To be fair looking at the pictures who could blame them there is little left standing to return too.
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
Jeremy Bowen April 2012: 11,541 empty chairs in Sarajevo, one each for all the siege's dead. it was the saddest sight. #Karadzic https://t.co/aPLHlyWX0y
The Panorama programme is bloody scary, to be honest. If it's accurate, then the ISIS cells in Western Europe are embedded, motivated, trained and well equipped. It gives the impression that the security forces are really having to run hard to stay up with them.
Or they are really useless and we are just pissing shedloads up the wall on a bunch of numpties who would have trouble running a bath. Bet they haev plenty of expense claims for fancy hotels and nice meals, they will ferret them out for sure.
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
pretty logical, or a massive assumption without any evidence? As someone else was mentioning earlier, these young men often have a history of petty violence and criminality, and would otherwise be engaged in street gangs, most likely.
It is indeed a parallel universe. Full of the most sumptuous turnips
Why do I get the impression that his speech would not have been about the necessity of serving redundancy notices on thousands of teachers, NHS staff and social workers in a desperate attempt to reduce the deficit to ECB requirements?
Discussion on here last night re the difference in security that could be achieved if in Europe or out. Well I guess if anyone would know then he would.....I think I'll believe him rather than anyone else.
The former head of MI6 yesterday demolished the security case for staying in the EU – saying Britain could be safer out.
Sir Richard Dearlove said Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and control our borders. He added that Europe could not turn its back on Britain if it left the EU because our intelligence services 'give much more' than they get in return. In any event, Washington was a more important counter-terror ally, he said.
The former spy chief also dismissed suggestions that Brexit would harm our relationship with the US and likened the EU's various intelligence bodies to the 'leakiest ships of state' and colanders riddled with holes.
I think Five Eyes is much more important to us than any cooperation in Europe. To suggest it would be damaged by Brexit is absurd, it was in existence long before we were in the EU.
Hitler was still in Berlin when Five Eyes started......
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
ISIS smuggler says more than 4,000 covert gunmen have been smuggled into western nations amongst refugees | Mirror https://t.co/j0FHMvemhP
He may not be the most reliable source.
But ISIS seem to have a track record of accurately reporting their activities. They have taken towns they have claimed, have beheaded those they have claimed, have attacked places they have said they will attack, have warned they are smuggling fighters in amidst refugees. It is not unreasonable to take such claims of 4,000 at face value.
Jake Rees Mogg New Zealand votes to keep their magnificent flag and not replace it with something that looks like a beach towel https://t.co/2nkg3SAmjR
I love it when some dumbf2ck living in the heart of ISIS activity tells us that the ones who actually have to go and do the dirty dangerous stuff are completely useless..Must be tough dodging the bombs and bullets up in boggy Ayrshire
The NZ referendum is a very good example of the way that it can turn into an apparently easy way to kick an unpopular government. Remain here needs to be careful that the referendum doesn't turn into a vote of confidence in David Cameron.
It is indeed a parallel universe. Full of the most sumptuous turnips
One doesn’t need to believe that the case for independence is just about the economics to wish for the economic implications to be understood. None of this analysis suggests that Scotland couldn’t be independent, it merely highlights the likely price that we would have to pay.
What the GERS numbers show us is that the likely price we would have paid for independence had there been a Yes vote would have been of the order of £9bn a year; that’s about £1,700 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland.
The NZ referendum is a very good example of the way that it can turn into an apparently easy way to kick an unpopular government. Remain here needs to be careful that the referendum doesn't turn into a vote of confidence in David Cameron.
That's assuming people would have voted to change the flag had the government been more popular. To my eyes the proposed one looks like a corporate logo.
The NZ referendum is a very good example of the way that it can turn into an apparently easy way to kick an unpopular government. Remain here needs to be careful that the referendum doesn't turn into a vote of confidence in David Cameron.
It might be a bit late for that, isn't that exactly what is happening?
Discussion on here last night re the difference in security that could be achieved if in Europe or out. Well I guess if anyone would know then he would.....I think I'll believe him rather than anyone else.
The former head of MI6 yesterday demolished the security case for staying in the EU – saying Britain could be safer out.
Sir Richard Dearlove said Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and control our borders. He added that Europe could not turn its back on Britain if it left the EU because our intelligence services 'give much more' than they get in return. In any event, Washington was a more important counter-terror ally, he said.
The former spy chief also dismissed suggestions that Brexit would harm our relationship with the US and likened the EU's various intelligence bodies to the 'leakiest ships of state' and colanders riddled with holes.
I think Five Eyes is much more important to us than any cooperation in Europe. To suggest it would be damaged by Brexit is absurd, it was in existence long before we were in the EU.
Again, those Remainers claiming that cooperation would end are insulting our intelligence. It exists outside of - and stands above any - trade issues between EU members.
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
pretty logical, or a massive assumption without any evidence? As someone else was mentioning earlier, these young men often have a history of petty violence and criminality, and would otherwise be engaged in street gangs, most likely.
There's clear evidence that secularism has gone hand in hand with the rise of other expressions of spiritual needs.
It's an assumption that the more extreme forms of Islam would be attractive to a sub-group of people seeking meaning in their lives.
We've also seen this in Christianity, with the growth of traditional liturgy and the strength of the more evangelical forms of Anglicianism and Protestantism.
Jeremy Bowen April 2012: 11,541 empty chairs in Sarajevo, one each for all the siege's dead. it was the saddest sight. #Karadzic https://t.co/aPLHlyWX0y
I remember the photo taken of no mans land in Sarajevo.
A young man had attempted to cross and was shot dead by a sniper. His young wife traumatised by seeing him shot and killed ran out to hold him and as she held him she too was shot dead. The photo image showed them embraced together,
Both dead... In no mans land.
One of the saddest images and one I have never forgotten.
The NZ referendum is a very good example of the way that it can turn into an apparently easy way to kick an unpopular government. Remain here needs to be careful that the referendum doesn't turn into a vote of confidence in David Cameron.
That's assuming people would have voted to change the flag had the government been more popular. To my eyes the proposed one looks like a corporate logo.
A very good chance that it will be flying very high at the final of the T20 in a couple of weeks time. They have the completely unfair advantage of being able to bat and bowl. In their last match I don't think they conceded a boundary in the last 5 overs.
ISIS smuggler says more than 4,000 covert gunmen have been smuggled into western nations amongst refugees | Mirror https://t.co/j0FHMvemhP
He may not be the most reliable source.
But ISIS seem to have a track record of accurately reporting their activities. They have taken towns they have claimed, have beheaded those they have claimed, have attacked places they have said they will attack, have warned they are smuggling fighters in amidst refugees. It is not unreasonable to take such claims of 4,000 at face value.
Some things they've said have happened. Others have not.
It strikes me that it serves ISIS very well to sow as much panic as possible. I guess we'll soon find out whether it's true. If it is, there'll be a huge wave of attacks over the coming months.
The NZ referendum is a very good example of the way that it can turn into an apparently easy way to kick an unpopular government. Remain here needs to be careful that the referendum doesn't turn into a vote of confidence in David Cameron.
Perhaps, though the NZ referendum might also have shown the new designs were bloody awful, or that most Kiwis don't really care. I suspect the latter may also be true of EUref.
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Votes will show who the real dullards are , Tories scrapping with the Lie Dems for scraps from the table. The lack of competition and fact that only turnips like yourself support the losers is really dire as it will encourage complacency in the SNP.
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
Lib Dems For Leave How the EU starves Africa into submission. A great liberal and internationalist case for leaving 'Fortress Europe'. https://t.co/CyRhSrNanm
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Same principle that's made in most industries. I used to have to sign agreements not to push off for 2 or 3 years at least after training investment was made. Fair enough both signatories gained from the agreement.
There's clear evidence that secularism has gone hand in hand with the rise of other expressions of spiritual needs.
It's an assumption that the more extreme forms of Islam would be attractive to a sub-group of people seeking meaning in their lives.
We've also seen this in Christianity, with the growth of traditional liturgy and the strength of the more evangelical forms of Anglicianism and Protestantism.
1st point not in dispute.
question is whether jihadis are actually seeking spiritual meaning, or something else.
(and as you said yourself, secularism is not the same as athiesm, the US being highly secular, at least in theory, though very religious)
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
Another Tory nutjob promoted well above his level of competence. Where do they find these clowns and how do they ever reach the top.
It must be that politicians from other parties wear even bigger clown shoes....
You know, like those that would happily have led their people over an economic cliff in the cause of "indepenence". And then don't have it in them to say "uh, sorry folks".
I love it when some dumbf2ck living in the heart of ISIS activity tells us that the ones who actually have to go and do the dirty dangerous stuff are completely useless..Must be tough dodging the bombs and bullets up in boggy Ayrshire
Too much spaghetti Doddery. That is rich coming from a jumped up emigrant nomark who is living outside the UK. Go press your nuclear button you sad sack of merde. I can sleep safe at night knowing we have heroes like you protecting us.
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Contract imposition is 4 months away. Juniors are applying for those jobs not knowing where they will be or what they will get paid. The rotas and contract terms are not yet published.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
What bollocks , why are the unionists so upset given they are supposed to have won the vote. They spend all their time rubbishing Scotland yet the mess is all down to Westminster's incompetence and mishandling of the Scottish economy. Stupid people are taken in by clowns like this who spout imaginary scenarios and the sheeple baa enthusiastically. Just so you know Scotland is NOR independent , it does not run its own affairs and it is the UK that makes the mess this clown points to.
@Alan_Cochrane: If Wee Eck had won this would have been Indy Day. While he still blethers about another go we can celebrate.Cheers.https://t.co/N5Y6Fhlepb
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
I don't get how a decline in people's belief in Christianity could push young Muslims into the arms of ISIS. If we all started going to church would that deter them, or if we all became US style evangelicals would that help?
@tykejohnno - a very large fine for that lorry driver.
Honestly, it's very hard for that to happen without him (and it will be a him) knowing.
Organised. It looks like out of all the vans and lorries passing by, Plod singled this one out and gave it a tug. someone knew something was on.
How much do we want to bet that:
(1) The first word of every one of them was "asylum!" when led out the lorry (2) Most will get it (3) Those that don't will either scarper or fail to be deported due to having no papers, and then scarper
There's clear evidence that secularism has gone hand in hand with the rise of other expressions of spiritual needs.
It's an assumption that the more extreme forms of Islam would be attractive to a sub-group of people seeking meaning in their lives.
We've also seen this in Christianity, with the growth of traditional liturgy and the strength of the more evangelical forms of Anglicianism and Protestantism.
1st point not in dispute.
question is whether jihadis are actually seeking spiritual meaning, or something else.
(and as you said yourself, secularism is not the same as athiesm, the US being highly secular, at least in theory, though very religious)
I'm not sure that anyone with an interest in homeopathy is seeking spiritual meaning either! It's just a sense that there needs to be "something more" than the humdrum day to day.
- Those who stand for nothing fall for anything
p.s. I'd dispute that the US is highly secular - I'm using it in the technical sense rather than in common parlance
It is indeed a parallel universe. Full of the most sumptuous turnips
One doesn’t need to believe that the case for independence is just about the economics to wish for the economic implications to be understood. None of this analysis suggests that Scotland couldn’t be independent, it merely highlights the likely price that we would have to pay.
What the GERS numbers show us is that the likely price we would have paid for independence had there been a Yes vote would have been of the order of £9bn a year; that’s about £1,700 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland.
Good old Toom Tabard always there to peddle the smears from the sadsack Tories. Just cannot get over the fact that people in Scotland see through them. Never happy , what a sad life you must live , full of bile and hatred.
Of course they lied about oil revenues, lied about "once in a generation", why would anyone be surprised they lied about 'progressive' taxation...
Ms Sturgeon’s decision to abandon her policy of restoring the 50p tax band in Scotland, originally promised in 2014, is a sign that the First Minister’s social democratic principles are as perishable as Labour’s. The 50p rate is essentially a tax on the Edinburgh financial “community” since bankers are the largest group earning more than £150,000. Now the SNP has again nailed its colours to their dubious mast.
I wonder what the SNP MP Mhairi Black, whose maiden speech to the Commons was all about social equity, really thinks of all this. She has to follow the party line. But what does she tell her Paisley constituents? “Eh, the rich don’t like paying taxes, so we’re not going to try”.
"Stephen Crabb, the new work and pensions secretary, has previously suggested Britain’s increasingly secular society risks “pushing more young Muslims into the arms of Isis”. Belgium holds minute's silence for Brussels attack victims Read more
Crabb, then Welsh secretary, used a speech to claim that a “hard-edged” secularism in Britain was partly to blame for “aiding and abetting” extremism"
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
I don't get how a decline in people's belief in Christianity could push young Muslims into the arms of ISIS. If we all started going to church would that deter them, or if we all became US style evangelicals would that help?
It's not just Christianity - you see this across most religions in the UK.
The argument is that there is a human need (presumably genetic - although I think @SeanT has a theory on this!) for spiritual expression. As society becomes more secular this need is unfulfilled, pushing some into kookieness and others into extreme forms of militant religions.
Re the Sarajevo photograph, the human cost was brought home to me in Dubrovnik in 2012. The owner of the house had a big picture of his daughter on the wall. She had been a student in Zagreb, when the fighting started. She and her friends started driving back home, but their car was destroyed by a shell.
I'm not sure that anyone with an interest in homeopathy is seeking spiritual meaning either! It's just a sense that there needs to be "something more" than the humdrum day to day.
perhaps homeopathy is more about the erosion of trust in science and science reporting.
perhaps that "choose your own reality" mentality coupled with choose the news of your choice can also be apportioned some of the blame for widepsread mentalism?
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Contract imposition is 4 months away. Juniors are applying for those jobs not knowing where they will be or what they will get paid. The rotas and contract terms are not yet published.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
Yes the brothers must stick together.. since the Scargill like leadership ,whipping up its members with half truths and sod the general public.
Frankly I hope it does irreparable damage to the reputation of doctors in general.. its not before time.. their "saintly" status is ludicrous.
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Contract imposition is 4 months away. Juniors are applying for those jobs not knowing where they will be or what they will get paid. The rotas and contract terms are not yet published.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
They've been played, then. This is not going to end well for the doctors. As I said yesterday, there are aspects of this dispute that are beginning to resemble the miners' strike.
It is indeed a parallel universe. Full of the most sumptuous turnips
One doesn’t need to believe that the case for independence is just about the economics to wish for the economic implications to be understood. None of this analysis suggests that Scotland couldn’t be independent, it merely highlights the likely price that we would have to pay.
What the GERS numbers show us is that the likely price we would have paid for independence had there been a Yes vote would have been of the order of £9bn a year; that’s about £1,700 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland.
Good old Toom Tabard always there to peddle the smears from the sadsack Tories.
Well, if you do want to call the Scottish Government 'sad sack Tories' I won't stop you (they are Scottish government figures...) but would you mind calling them beige Tories - to differentiate them from the Red ones?
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Contract imposition is 4 months away. Juniors are applying for those jobs not knowing where they will be or what they will get paid. The rotas and contract terms are not yet published.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
Yes the brothers must stick together.. since the Scargill like leadership ,whipping up its members with half truths and sod the general public.
Frankly I hope it does irreparable damage to the reputation of doctors in general.. its not before time.. their "saintly" status is ludicrous.
Ignorance is bliss, I see.
Are you suggesting that 98.5% of junior doctors are too stupid to understand their own contracts? This is not led by radicals, it is led by people who do not want a major deteriation in their pay and conditions of service. Terms that are increasingly forcing people out. The BMAs conterproposals were cost neutral but Hunt refuses to even discuss them.
I'm not sure that anyone with an interest in homeopathy is seeking spiritual meaning either! It's just a sense that there needs to be "something more" than the humdrum day to day.
perhaps homeopathy is more about the erosion of trust in science and science reporting.
perhaps that "choose your own reality" mentality coupled with choose the news of your choice can also be apportioned some of the blame for widepsread mentalism?
I will admit I was being mischievous in including homeopathy...
Mr. Charles, I think some people have a need for that. Many don't. The problem may be that whereas Christianity has a lot of conservative and liberal positions, the default of Islam appears to be fundamentalism, and it's a shorter hope* from that to extremism than it is from a liberal or conservative position.
It's also probably true that the Muslim majority in the Middle East (which is not renowned for stability and peace) doesn't help things. When Islam (or one of its varieties) is written into the legal code of a country then it's easier for political disputes to also be religious in nature.
The meek response of the West to some things which should be unacceptable is not helpful (when the Jesus and Mo cartoon was featured on Newsnight, most of it was attacking the atheist cartoonist for exercising freedom of expression and there was less than a minute criticising those who wanted Majid Nawaz[sp] deselected as a Lib Dem candidate for supporting that free speech).
Danny Shaw Home Office confirms Daily Mail reports that 51 clandestine migrants found in separate incidents in Kent this week - Dartford & Patrixbourne
There's clear evidence that secularism has gone hand in hand with the rise of other expressions of spiritual needs.
It's an assumption that the more extreme forms of Islam would be attractive to a sub-group of people seeking meaning in their lives.
We've also seen this in Christianity, with the growth of traditional liturgy and the strength of the more evangelical forms of Anglicianism and Protestantism.
1st point not in dispute.
question is whether jihadis are actually seeking spiritual meaning, or something else.
(and as you said yourself, secularism is not the same as athiesm, the US being highly secular, at least in theory, though very religious)
I'm not sure that anyone with an interest in homeopathy is seeking spiritual meaning either! It's just a sense that there needs to be "something more" than the humdrum day to day.
- Those who stand for nothing fall for anything
p.s. I'd dispute that the US is highly secular - I'm using it in the technical sense rather than in common parlance
I would put it the other way round. Technically the US is secular in that its constitution insists (to some extent) on the separation of church and state (in contrast with the UK). In common parlance it seems less secular because its has so many vocal Christians.
At all events, secularism itself is eminently worth defending. The devout should appreciate this as much as anyone as a secular society is a bulwark of religious freedom.
Are you suggesting that 98.5% of junior doctors are too stupid to understand their own contracts? This is not led by radicals, it is led by people who do not want a major deteriation in their pay and conditions of service. Terms that are increasingly forcing people out. The BMAs conterproposals were cost neutral but Hunt refuses to even discuss them.
And Hunt doesn’t seemed to have factored in the substantial increase in costs which seven day working will cause. That’s not saying I’m against it; I just don’t think it can be doine without involving other staff, and there’ll be a cost to that.
It's handy how the junior doctors are preparing the country for life in the future as when Hunt gets his shiny new rotas there will be so many holes in the A&E and ITU ones that it'll be like the strikes all over again.
I don't think you've ever answered this question:
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
The free market is the free market, surely. Why should doctors have to do that more than anyone else who has received subsidised tuition?
Of course they are at liberty to move as individuals.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Sounds reasonable.
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Contract imposition is 4 months away. Juniors are applying for those jobs not knowing where they will be or what they will get paid. The rotas and contract terms are not yet published.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
Yes the brothers must stick together.. since the Scargill like leadership ,whipping up its members with half truths and sod the general public.
Frankly I hope it does irreparable damage to the reputation of doctors in general.. its not before time.. their "saintly" status is ludicrous.
Ignorance is bliss, I see.
Are you suggesting that 98.5% of junior doctors are too stupid to understand their own contracts? This is not led by radicals, it is led by people who do not want a major deteriation in their pay and conditions of service. Terms that are increasingly forcing people out. The BMAs conterproposals were cost neutral but Hunt refuses to even discuss them.
I see.."" "we are all in it together" except for the junior doctors"""".. I like the slogan.. it works..
I have been stuffed by Brown's recession and mismanagement of the economy, but you want your boys immune.
Well, I for one am truly celebrating not Independence Day
And the people of Scotland replied to the false prophet Salmond;
“The Lord may well work in strange and mysterious ways – but making this add up would be a stretch even for Him.
For you are talking keech”
Whereupon the face of the false prophet Salmond turned whiter than a whitened sepulchre newly washed with daz ultra. He gathered together his pensions and departed for a radio studio in London to his third job – as a shock jock.
The irony of which he perceiveth not .
And lo the tribe of the Caledonians did fall upon their ballot papers in great multitudes and the bulk of the people did place their mark against the box marked “No”.
Danny Shaw Home Office confirms Daily Mail reports that 51 clandestine migrants found in separate incidents in Kent this week - Dartford & Patrixbourne
I wonder how much it would cost to search every vehicle and container for stowaways. I'd be happy to pay.
Mr. Dugarbandier, my understanding (which is limited, so I'm open to correction) was that Muslims almost to a man see the Koran as written by Mohammed and, literally [tiny translation errors and the like aside] the word of their god. That's fundamentalism.
Christians sometimes see the Bible in a comparable light, but others consider the stories to be allegories and parables with deeper meanings (but which are not meant to be historically accurate and literally true).
Comments
A really amazing little illustration of the flights diverted from Brussels yesterday: https://t.co/POPdC1DGxC https://t.co/Xn9kUpWkpa
NHS doctors think they should be paid free-market wages, as they appear to be in Australia*. How are they accounting for the value they have received in the form of subsidisied tuition when they consider what they should be paid?
* Based solely on comments on pb.com
If the amount of money now being wasted controlling this flow of migrants had been put into the camps the border would look like Sharm el Sheik. As it is we have what we now have and Europe is effectively changed forever as many of these will never return. To be fair looking at the pictures who could blame them there is little left standing to return too.
But there is pretty good evidence that a secular society and the decline of mainstream churches has led to a demand from people to satisfy their spiritual longings. We see this manifested in the upswing in interest in paganism, astrology, homeopathy, Gaiaism, etc.
It's pretty logical that it would lead to an interest or openness to more virulent forms of Islam.
Just saw this on Sky News:
"Dog breaks record for fastest time travelling on a ball"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/viral-video/12201023/Dog-breaks-record-for-fastest-time-travelling-on-a-ball.html
April 2012: 11,541 empty chairs in Sarajevo, one each for all the siege's dead. it was the saddest sight. #Karadzic https://t.co/aPLHlyWX0y
there's always this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cross_and_the_Switchblade
i suppose
New Zealand votes to keep their magnificent flag and not replace it with something that looks like a beach towel
https://t.co/2nkg3SAmjR
What the GERS numbers show us is that the likely price we would have paid for independence had there been a Yes vote would have been of the order of £9bn a year; that’s about £1,700 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland.
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.id/2016/03/the-price-of-independence.html
It's an assumption that the more extreme forms of Islam would be attractive to a sub-group of people seeking meaning in their lives.
We've also seen this in Christianity, with the growth of traditional liturgy and the strength of the more evangelical forms of Anglicianism and Protestantism.
A young man had attempted to cross and was shot dead by a sniper. His young wife traumatised by seeing him shot and killed ran out to hold him and as she held him she too was shot dead. The photo image showed them embraced together,
Both dead... In no mans land.
One of the saddest images and one I have never forgotten.
It strikes me that it serves ISIS very well to sow as much panic as possible. I guess we'll soon find out whether it's true. If it is, there'll be a huge wave of attacks over the coming months.
But the union leadership, to claim they are underpaid while not taking into account the subsidized tuition is disingenuous to say the least.
Personally, I'd prefer a structure with tuition funded through government loans that are written off over, say, 10 years, working for the NHS. And if you want to move to Australia or the US to maximise your personal income, fine, but you have to pay back the investment that the UK taxpayer made in you
Note that the learning strategy - making the computer play against itself is the same technique as used in AlphaGo. (The film was made in 1983)
"dilithium crystals"
An independent Scotland would have worst deficit (and, ergo, crisis) in the developed world: https://t.co/C1IGqpmGqd https://t.co/Ipo7mRJXEf
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/defence/news/73109/len-mccluskey-blasts-jeremy-corbyn-over-trident
The escalation announced yesterday looks to me like a major error.
Lib Dems For Leave
How the EU starves Africa into submission. A great liberal and internationalist case for leaving 'Fortress Europe'. https://t.co/CyRhSrNanm
Honestly, it's very hard for that to happen without him (and it will be a him) knowing.
Not sure why it was necessary as the silver fern was an official emblem anyway.
question is whether jihadis are actually seeking spiritual meaning, or something else.
(and as you said yourself, secularism is not the same as athiesm, the US being highly secular, at least in theory, though very religious)
You know, like those that would happily have led their people over an economic cliff in the cause of "indepenence". And then don't have it in them to say "uh, sorry folks".
Left: Islamic State has nothing to do with Islam.
Islamic State: Erm, let me pause you there.
Left: WE WILL DECIDE, THANK YOU.
The BMA JDC could only escalate or accept. They cannot accept a deal rejected by 98.5% of their membership on a 70% turnout. Escalation it is.
Just so you know Scotland is NOR independent , it does not run its own affairs and it is the UK that makes the mess this clown points to.
(1) The first word of every one of them was "asylum!" when led out the lorry
(2) Most will get it
(3) Those that don't will either scarper or fail to be deported due to having no papers, and then scarper
?
You get to Britain. You've made it.
- Those who stand for nothing fall for anything
p.s. I'd dispute that the US is highly secular - I'm using it in the technical sense rather than in common parlance
Hillary Clinton Verified account
@HillaryClinton
How does your student loan debt make you feel?
Tell us in 3 emojis or less.
Personal project: All Welsh #Labour MPs on #TheList
No Core Group
10 CG Plus
11 Neutral
2 CG Hostile
2 Hostile https://t.co/TDos18pcWI
Unfortunately the fining system is strict. With no allowances for culpability.
There used to be stowaway insurance available for hauliers - I don't think this is now available.
Of course they lied about oil revenues, lied about "once in a generation", why would anyone be surprised they lied about 'progressive' taxation... http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14379525.Iain_Macwhirter__Shame_on_the_SNP_for_choosing_to_park_its_conscience/
The argument is that there is a human need (presumably genetic - although I think @SeanT has a theory on this!) for spiritual expression. As society becomes more secular this need is unfulfilled, pushing some into kookieness and others into extreme forms of militant religions.
perhaps that "choose your own reality" mentality coupled with choose the news of your choice can also be apportioned some of the blame for widepsread mentalism?
Frankly I hope it does irreparable damage to the reputation of doctors in general.. its not before time.. their "saintly" status is ludicrous.
Are you suggesting that 98.5% of junior doctors are too stupid to understand their own contracts? This is not led by radicals, it is led by people who do not want a major deteriation in their pay and conditions of service. Terms that are increasingly forcing people out. The BMAs conterproposals were cost neutral but Hunt refuses to even discuss them.
Nobody knows what Amber Rudd was talking about this A.M.
#r4Today https://t.co/ROCvNv5qHu
Andrew Neil demolished her
Mr. Charles, I think some people have a need for that. Many don't. The problem may be that whereas Christianity has a lot of conservative and liberal positions, the default of Islam appears to be fundamentalism, and it's a shorter hope* from that to extremism than it is from a liberal or conservative position.
It's also probably true that the Muslim majority in the Middle East (which is not renowned for stability and peace) doesn't help things. When Islam (or one of its varieties) is written into the legal code of a country then it's easier for political disputes to also be religious in nature.
The meek response of the West to some things which should be unacceptable is not helpful (when the Jesus and Mo cartoon was featured on Newsnight, most of it was attacking the atheist cartoonist for exercising freedom of expression and there was less than a minute criticising those who wanted Majid Nawaz[sp] deselected as a Lib Dem candidate for supporting that free speech).
*Edited extra bit: hop, not hope.
Home Office confirms Daily Mail reports that 51 clandestine migrants found in separate incidents in Kent this week - Dartford & Patrixbourne
At all events, secularism itself is eminently worth defending. The devout should appreciate this as much as anyone as a secular society is a bulwark of religious freedom.
That’s not saying I’m against it; I just don’t think it can be doine without involving other staff, and there’ll be a cost to that.
I have been stuffed by Brown's recession and mismanagement of the economy, but you want your boys immune.
Christians sometimes see the Bible in a comparable light, but others consider the stories to be allegories and parables with deeper meanings (but which are not meant to be historically accurate and literally true).
If you are #BLOCKED on twitter by #PublicAuthority PERSON then lodge an official complaint under the #HumanRightsAct https://t.co/O6c400qOO1