On the "why?" question, the personal is the political: Iain Duncan Smith evidently hates George Osborne's guts. With the Conservative bonds of loyalty frayed by Eurostrife, he can no longer keep his feelings in check.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Agreed He is smart in all senses compared to Corbyn and his disheveled persona.
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If we had STV over 2 or 3 multi-member constituencies it would be much more entertaining, and would allow us to punish some of the deadbeat MPs locally.
John McDonnell is surprisingly talented, charismatic, intelligent, fun, self deprecating, an easy communicator, interviews well, and someone who could potentially reach across the party ie. appears to be much more comprising than his austere, humourless and dim witted leader.
New Labour should have found some way of accommodating it's lefty fringes, and making use of the McDonnells of the world.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Come off it. He's even worse than Corbyn, who does convey a sense of integrity. For the general public he'll forever be the clown who waved Mao's red book across the chamber.
I saw my first BSE ad on Youtube today. Started with three million jobs line, then the dodgy numbers about prices that were torn up in select committee, then a claim that we get ten pounds out for every pound we put in - a calculation that includes exports but not imports.
There are a great many right who find it hard to reconcile the reduction of services and support in this country whilst billions and billions of taxes flow out the door to other countries.
Osborne and Cameron are now on the side of £25bn in taxpayers' money to other countries (EUincl.) whilst cutting UK disability benefits.
Out from 8pm last night. Wasn't expecting to wake up to this.
Yes, the Tories are doing their best to lose in 2020. Its quite impressive.
The Conservative Party is going through a period of churn as it realises continuity of the existing regime into the 2020s isn't what it really wants.
However, it is yet to decide what should replace it.
That has many potential outcomes and I do not expect a permanent split.
When both Cameron/Osborne go, that will largely lance the boil.
snip.
snip.
Exactly. The Conservatives think they'd rather pick someone they're comfortable with and risk losing than pick someone the electorate is comfortable with. The electorate didn't particularly like the Conservatives in 2015. What makes you think that the deterioration in their opinion of that party will not exceed the deterioration in their opinion of Labour?
You think the electorate would be comfortable with Osborne?
Personally, I think the Conservatives should be begging David Cameron on hands and knees to stay.
Theresa May is the best of a very bad bunch otherwise. Or Boris Johnson, if they're feeling daring, though that could go horribly wrong. Every other choice would range from poor to utterly disastrous.
I expect they'll pick Michael Gove. They love him. The fact that the electorate hates him is neither here nor there.
I thought the same way as you about David Cameron up until last month, but I think he's now lost his party.
Theresa May was my prior pick (as I think you know) but she's shot her bolt.
Boris Johnson has done nothing to show he's serious PM material so far
Disagree regarding Theresa May.Another female Tory politician campaigned for IN in 1975 called Margaret Thatcher so she could be on the right side of history.And,good for her,she's got breasts."Everyone needs a bosom for a pillow" as the song goes.She's probably best placed just now watching as an oberver of the various other male leadership candidates kicking the proverbial out of each other.Her main female contender did herself no favours on QT either.
Gove is directly linked to the deeply unpopular free school/Academies changes.
Are these the same free schools and academies the voters rejected less than two months prior to returning a majority Conservative government pledging to introduce more of them?
Voters don't know what free schools and academies are. In so far as they think they do, they think it involves selling off schools to the private sector - and bringing businesses in to run them instead - which is hokum.
Sunny Varkey? The Harris Federation? The Steinerite loons? Or are we just in the presence of people-helping charitable altruists?
Politics looks doomed in the major countries. The US election is going to be a horrible war of attrition. Germany's Merkel and her CD's are terribly tarnished, but the opposition further so. France- what a re-run of Hollande versus Sarkozy with a throwback to LePen. Arghhh. Spain- mainstream politics completely fubar.
Italy has a standout, untarnished political leader in Renzi. But that after 20 years, 20 long, long, long years of Berlusconi.
Great tweet I read today- 2020 election- the unelectable 1983 Labour Party versus the unelectable 1997 Tory Party. Throw in the 1945 Liberal party and you get the set- that's my bit.
The thing is now with the Tories is that now they are genuinely messed up. And politics, like football management, it just gets uglier and more horrible. It did with Labour in the Brown years. It did with Major.
Cameron was the Tory's best hope of keeping this wholly unmanageable, cutthroat, back stabbing, ideologically divided party on the straight and narrow. And now, I think he's fatally wounded, Osborne is the dead parrot, and the others May and Johnson, well they just don't bear thinking about.
So the Chinese leadership is right about representative democracy...
There are a great many right who find it hard to reconcile the reduction of services and support in this country whilst billions and billions of taxes flow out the door to other countries.
Osborne and Cameron are now on the side of £25bn in taxpayers' money to other countries whilst cutting UK disability benefits.
Mr. Jonathan, is it a Tory implosion, or an Osborne one? If the latter, then his removal solves the problem.
Or, to rephrase, is this a Peloponnesian War, or a Jugurthine War?
Osborne = Tory. He's your chancellor and the brains that got you out of opposition. You'll be properly screwed with him outside the tent pissing in.
There were several key people and the actual GE2010 campaign that Osborne headed up was a mini omnishambles. One built on little real research.
Gaining 90 seats, what a shambles, eh?
Almost all from their coalition partners. Should ensure that the Tories will never be in power again without an outright majority...
I think that was a reference to 2010. The Tories certainly didn't gain 90 seats in 2015 - net gain of 24.
EDIT - in fact, surely it was over a hundred in 2010 - from 198 to 307?
There you go. But apparently that was a shambles.
The idea that the 2010 campaign was a failure by the Tories is one of the most poisonous out there. Winning 150 seats in one go, as some people seem to think should have happened, just isn't feasible in our system.
It is feasible - Blair did it in 1997 and the SNP did even more, equivalently, last year - but it's very rare.
Attlee in 1945 and Baldwin in 1924 and 1931 are the only others I can think of since 1918.
So, apart from lots of times it is impossible.
Lol. Yes, but for most of those, 'special circumstances' apply.
1918 (Don't know if ydoethur was including that but he could have done): Coupon election / Khaki-post-WWI election 1924: Realignment between Lib and Lab on the left-of-centre 1931: National coaltion 1945: Post-WWII election and 10 years since the previous one
There's only really 1906, 1997 (which was just short of 150) and to an extent 1924, plus the localised Scotland 2015, which are non-special-circumstances since 1900
It's almost as if I chose the number 150 deliberately. If even Blair couldn't do it in 1997, nobody is going to do it in our current (ie 3+ party) system.
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
John McDonnell is surprisingly talented, charismatic, intelligent, fun, self deprecating, an easy communicator, interviews well, and someone who could potentially reach across the party ie. appears to be much more comprising than his austere, humourless and dim witted leader.
New Labour should have found some way of accommodating it's lefty fringes, and making use of the McDonnells of the world.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Come off it. He's even worse than Corbyn, who does convey a sense of integrity. For the general public he'll forever be the clown who waved Mao's red book across the chamber.
I really doubt that most people will not even know about that incident. If they remember that in a few years time, they are probably on a political betting night out in the pub for anoraks.
It is precisely McDonnell's lack of integrity that makes him more than interesting. Perhaps he could demonstrate Wilson's mastery of brokering deals to keep the party together. McDonnell also has a political discourse which is compelling.
I doubt very much he would have spent his first six months as leader twittering on about nuclear weapons, the Falklands, shoot to kill, legalising prostitution and the other nonsense that Corbyn gets sidetracked with.
John McDonnell is surprisingly talented, charismatic, intelligent, fun, self deprecating, an easy communicator, interviews well, and someone who could potentially reach across the party ie. appears to be much more comprising than his austere, humourless and dim witted leader.
New Labour should have found some way of accommodating it's lefty fringes, and making use of the McDonnells of the world.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Come off it. He's even worse than Corbyn, who does convey a sense of integrity. For the general public he'll forever be the clown who waved Mao's red book across the chamber.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
No. Simply the New Statesman doing its best to bury an enemy.
John McDonnell is surprisingly talented, charismatic, intelligent, fun, self deprecating, an easy communicator, interviews well, and someone who could potentially reach across the party ie. appears to be much more comprising than his austere, humourless and dim witted leader.
New Labour should have found some way of accommodating it's lefty fringes, and making use of the McDonnells of the world.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Come off it. He's even worse than Corbyn, who does convey a sense of integrity. For the general public he'll forever be the clown who waved Mao's red book across the chamber.
I really doubt that most people even know about that incident. If they remember that in a few years time, they are probably on a political betting night out in the pub for anoraks.
McDonnell is a much sharper man than Jezza, and unlike Jezza has considerable organisational skills. A nasty piece of work in the past, but for most Britons the Irish troubles and Mao's Cultural Revolution are ancient history if they recall them at all.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
If we ignore record employment and the lowest claimant count in over 40 years they may have a point. Idiots.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
@DavidHerdson - So what do you think is a better explanation, then, for IDS's resignation, than the two you dismiss? One that better fits the facts. Or should we all be as "puzzled" as Cameron says he is? (What, no whips? No MI5?)
In his letter, IDS mentions David Freud. That's a big clue. If there is a real division over welfare policy, what is it? "The Fraud Squad" might know. A lot of money has been spent on "government relations" by those who are pushing "social finance".
Welcome to replacing the welfare state with Wonga and payday loans.
And of course the resignation is partly to do with Europe.
He also seems to have taken the spotlight off of George Osborne.
I agree it would be "audacious" to offer the DWP job to Boris. And he'd turn it down.
The only way one could imagine the Remain campaign winning the referendum is for a Labour person to take the helm.
Ideally this would be Jeremy Corbyn. Sure, he doesn't play well with the Tory voters, and with most commenters who post to this website, but who cares? Remain can only win by pushing the line that the Tories are a shower of infighting arseholes, more intent on fighting each other, with half of them wrapped in the Union Jack and pining for Enoch Powell and the other half, the half with more brains, getting on with the job of smashing the welfare state to help asset strippers and moneylenders and other spivs and crooks. Then they go to reunions at the boarding schools that damaged their personalities so much and all get drunk together.
And that therefore if you hate the Tories, get off your bum and make sure you vote to Remain.
Which is far too hard a task, would rock the boat too much, and won't happen.
The explanation that fits the facts is the one IDS cites in his resignation letter: he got fed up with Osborne interfering in his department, messing up the rationale behind his welfare reforms, then spending the money on politically-motivated (but tin-eared) tax cuts.
Perhaps the EURef helped his decision - Cameron's language in the campaign is hardly designed to foster party unity - but it wasn't his primary consideration.
As for the rest of your comments, they're perhaps best left unanswered.
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
He is far worse than Corbyn. Corbyn is an deluded old foul, who takes positions he believes in but are either totally unworkable or counterproductive. McDonnell is a different kettle of fish, only last week we found out why he really joined the Labour Party in the first place.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
Tyson, I think he could . John Mcdonnell is always very polite about wanting the names you mention back . Wether this is achievable is another question. JM looks favourite to me to take over from Corbyn.
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
Labour conference today in the IMAX, capacity 370 and it is not even filled, how low can they go.
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
McDonnell is certainly more politically astute than Corbyn and more pragmatic economically. But that is not a huge leap forward. What he has said and done in the past matters. It's the only way to judge him. And he openly supported an organisation that wanted to murder and maim British citizens into becoming part of another country. That is just not acceptable in my book. There have to be red lines.
I hear plenty of things from Labour moderates. It's just most Labour members do not agree with them. I like what people such as Dan Jarvis say, but I am in a minority - or would be if I were a Labour member.
"for most Britons the Irish troubles and Mao's Cultural Revolution are ancient history if they recall them at all."
That's easy to forget. For under-twenties, the fall of the Berlin wall is history so they can embrace the Trot version happily. Hitler murdered millions, but Mao and Stalin, by comparison, were benevolent uncle figures who occasionally had to correct errors.
And for Jezza, that was always the case.
Edit ... Trots may be less forgiving of Stalin because of ice-pick related matters, but there are many more pick-and-mix varieties.
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
Tyson, I think he could . John Mcdonnell is always very polite about wanting the names you mention back . Wether this is achievable is another question. JM looks favourite to me to take over from Corbyn.
Well, God help the Labour Party, if you're right ...
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
Tyson, I think he could . John Mcdonnell is always very polite about wanting the names you mention back . Wether this is achievable is another question. JM looks favourite to me to take over from Corbyn.
Well, God help the Labour Party, if you're right ...
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
Labour conference today in the IMAX, capacity 370 and it is not even filled, how low can they go.
Meanwhile Scottish Tories won't be holding a conference as there just isn't a venue big enough in the whole of Scotland.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
Labour conference today in the IMAX, capacity 370 and it is not even filled, how low can they go.
Meanwhile Scottish Tories won't be holding a conference as there just isn't a venue big enough in the whole of Scotland.
A few people still have old style phone boxes, they could fill one of those
I haven't posted more because I imagine many are waiting for highlights and wanted to avoid spoilers.
I did tell you it was crap!
I'm not betting on the race, for the reason of huge uncertainty surrounding the new team radio rules. The farce of qualifying could be turned into a tragedy of a race, with draconian penalties handed out during and after the race for teams talking to drivers about anything that isn't an imminent safety issue. Luckily it's on at 9am my time, I couldn't be arsed if I had to get up in the middle of the night to watch it, and I've not missed it since about 1989.
Oh, and which silly sports schedulers put the F1 race starting six hours after the end of the Six Nations finale..?
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
Labour conference today in the IMAX, capacity 370 and it is not even filled, how low can they go.
Meanwhile Scottish Tories won't be holding a conference as there just isn't a venue big enough in the whole of Scotland.
A few people still have old style phone boxes, they could fill one of those
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
Not couples or familes or disabled children. Only single persons. Therefore a system that can not cope with the complex situations that most people in the UK live in.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
Not couples or familes or disabled children. Only single persons. Therfore a system that can not cope with the complex situations that most people in the UK live in.
Yeah, I don't think the system is set in stone, never to be changed. It's probably being phased in.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
The national rollout is picking up and they will try to get the simple cases on first while they iron out the bugs in the machine. They have used this method on numerous other implementations over the years.
Osborne is being attacked by his own side and in the press because he is a "Remainer". That was ultimately the cause of IDS's frustration. However, Osborne needs to be more circumspect in his dealings.
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
John McDonnell is surprisingly talented, charismatic, intelligent, fun, self deprecating, an easy communicator, interviews well, and someone who could potentially reach across the party ie. appears to be much more comprising than his austere, humourless and dim witted leader.
New Labour should have found some way of accommodating it's lefty fringes, and making use of the McDonnells of the world.
If you are not intrested in politics, and no nothing about it, and you are watching John Mcdonnell for the first time . Then you could be impressed, he looks the part and speaks very well in interviews.
Come off it. He's even worse than Corbyn, who does convey a sense of integrity. For the general public he'll forever be the clown who waved Mao's red book across the chamber.
I really doubt that most people even know about that incident. If they remember that in a few years time, they are probably on a political betting night out in the pub for anoraks.
McDonnell is a much sharper man than Jezza, and unlike Jezza has considerable organisational skills. A nasty piece of work in the past, but for most Britons the Irish troubles and Mao's Cultural Revolution are ancient history if they recall them at all.
That's not good enough. Whether it matters to most Britins or not - and I suspect it would matter a lot more than you think - views on the Troubles and the IRA that McDonnell has expressed and has not repudiated make him unfit for the role he has now, let alone leadership.
OK McDonnell has a past. But it is what he does now that is important. Could he create a shadow cabinet and bring in people like Yvette, Dan Jarvis, Chuka, Starmer? Would he treat the PLP with more respect?
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
@Tyson - McDonnell is presentable. Then you look at what he has said and done over the years, and you quickly realise he is deeply unpleasant.
Tyson, I think he could . John Mcdonnell is always very polite about wanting the names you mention back . Wether this is achievable is another question. JM looks favourite to me to take over from Corbyn.
Well, God help the Labour Party, if you're right ...
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
Not couples or familes or disabled children. Only single persons. Therfore a system that can not cope with the complex situations that most people in the UK live in.
Yeah, I don't think the system is set in stone, never to be changed. It's probably being phased in.
Yes agreed. Better to phase it in and get it correct.
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
He has some thing of John Major about him. Not a positive.
How did we end up with such piss poor politicians?
The "piss poor" electorate vote for them ....
Ah, I've got you there, young Jack. I never voted for them, I voted Green, so I feel pure enough to be able to carp from the sidelines.
The Green party isn't doing very well either...
I know. Is there an East Midlands SNP branch?
Have you considered the Womens Equality Party?
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If Scotland last year didn't kill off the idea of the "safe seat", what will?
Labour conference today in the IMAX, capacity 370 and it is not even filled, how low can they go.
Meanwhile Scottish Tories won't be holding a conference as there just isn't a venue big enough in the whole of Scotland.
or... they may need two venues for the LEAVE and REMAIN factions? (sadly)
"This is the man who, despite having been the longest-serving Secretary of State at the Department for Welfare and Pensions, leaves it having implemented nothing and done nothing. "
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
Universal Credit is like the Chilcott report or the TSE AV thread. Always in the future, but receding further away like the morning mist.
It's shame the implementation has gone so poorly.
These same complaints were made 20-30 years ago when the Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support were introduced.
I was reading the wikipedia article on Universal Credit. Looks as though rollout is proceeding, and 20% of all those eligible for JSA are claiming it.
Not couples or familes or disabled children. Only single persons. Therefore a system that can not cope with the complex situations that most people in the UK live in.
I have heard from someone working on the computer system that it just didn't work, the roll out was so slow because people were having to manually calculate stuff on Excel spreadsheets in the background. And they enrolled one postcode in Scotland and one in Wales so they could claim to have started rolling out across Britain.
This was a few years back, but judging by the results so far not much has changed.
Mr. Sandpit, I'd forgotten about the radio rules. Hmm.
That should advantage Raikkonen. They'll leave him alone, and that's ok, because he knows what he's doing.
Hamilton said that the first he will know of a change of strategy is either an unexpected pit board with "Box" on it, or the tyres that go on the car being a different colour to what he was expecting!
The commentators were debating earlier whether it was allowed to tell a driver that he had a DRS failure (yes) or a broken front wing (no, unless the FIA ask the team to tell the driver to stop). It's farcical and false, eliminates almost all radio traffic and strategy adaptations.
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
He has some thing of John Major about him. Not a positive.
John Major won a general election after 13 years of Tory government
I understand this pov re migrants, but I think it is simplistic. The migrants are coming from failed or failing states - the people of Egypt are not exactly flocking are they?
No so.
Quite a lot of economic migrants are coming from the "doing slightly better states" notably Senegal. The problem with increasing the prosperity a bit of the sort of states people migrate from is there is still a massive difference in standard of living, easily enough to drive migration, but the people concerned can now afford smartphones to see what they are missing in the rest of the world, and afford to pay for tickets and people smugglers to get them there.
Senegal is a stable West African democracy, and Kothiary has profited from the currents of globalization transforming rural Africa’s more prosperous areas. Flat screen TVs and, increasingly, cars—mostly purchased with money wired home by villagers working in Europe—have reshaped what was once a settlement of mud huts. The wealth has plugged this isolated landscape of peanut farms and baobab trees into the global economy and won respect for the men who sent it.
But it has also put European living standards on real-time display, and handed young farm hands the cash to buy a ticket out.
A little money so far for Crabbe in the next Tory leader market,although he is still generally available at 25-1. Having worked for them,the DWP is the graveyard of all ambition where all social mobility is downwards.No bet.
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
Rightly or wrongly, hair is a huge issue for a leader. The British people like it on top, but not on the face: they want someone smart, who looks the part, to represent their country.
Also there will be endless damaging grooming/sartorial stories, and comparison between him and Corbyn (another beardy), if he is leader up and against him in GE2020.
I've done a rapid about turn since yesterday evening when I poo-poo'ed him below 50/1 (my oh my, how politics can change) and just backed him at 33/1 with Bet365.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
He has some thing of John Major about him. Not a positive.
John Major won a general election after 13 years of Tory government
Might have to re-watch the 1992 election footage to cheer myself up after this pretty woeful week.
Comments
Mr. Wanderer, if UKIP had a leader who wasn't a turn-off to many potential supporters and half his own party, they'd be in a near perfect position.
The strategy flows from that.
He is smart in all senses compared to Corbyn and his disheveled persona.
In Leics every seat now seems to be safe for one party or the other (7:3 Con over Lab) with no one else getting a serious look in, so it doesn't really matter who you vote for. In a way it is quite liberating.
If we had STV over 2 or 3 multi-member constituencies it would be much more entertaining, and would allow us to punish some of the deadbeat MPs locally.
Osborne and Cameron are now on the side of £25bn in taxpayers' money to other countries (EUincl.) whilst cutting UK disability benefits.
Or are we just in the presence of people-helping charitable altruists?
Politics looks doomed in the major countries. The US election is going to be a horrible war of attrition. Germany's Merkel and her CD's are terribly tarnished, but the opposition further so. France- what a re-run of Hollande versus Sarkozy with a throwback to LePen. Arghhh. Spain- mainstream politics completely fubar.
Italy has a standout, untarnished political leader in Renzi. But that after 20 years, 20 long, long, long years of Berlusconi.
Outside it, about 0.1% of people remember or could care.
I happen to think too many who aren't that disabled either mentally or physically get too much compared to others.
But handing out more to the most well off and able to improve their lot is all wrong.
If he's got substance, I'd be tempted to vote for him.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2016/03/think-iain-duncan-smiths-resignation-masterstroke-sadly-hes-not-clever
The fact that she has been overlooked is Cameron sticking two fingers up to the Leavers.
#Priti4Leader
So a lot of fuss about nothing then re: cuts, Universal Credit etc.?
If they remember that in a few years time, they are probably on a political betting night out in the pub for anoraks.
It is precisely McDonnell's lack of integrity that makes him more than interesting. Perhaps he could demonstrate Wilson's mastery of brokering deals to keep the party together. McDonnell also has a political discourse which is compelling.
I doubt very much he would have spent his first six months as leader twittering on about nuclear weapons, the Falklands, shoot to kill, legalising prostitution and the other nonsense that Corbyn gets sidetracked with.
Alun Cairns has been appointed Secretary of State for Wales.
Guto Bebb has been appointed Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Wales Office and a Government Whip.
Perhaps the EURef helped his decision - Cameron's language in the campaign is hardly designed to foster party unity - but it wasn't his primary consideration.
As for the rest of your comments, they're perhaps best left unanswered.
McDonnell has a lefty, economic discourse that is really quite compelling. So far, I have yet to see any of the Labour moderates come up with any idea of any note except the "I am not a Tory line."
A real sign by religious preachers in Manchester's main shopping street. How many are YOU? https://t.co/MaktmeLnjV
John Mcdonnell is always very polite about wanting the names you mention back .
Wether this is achievable is another question.
JM looks favourite to me to take over from Corbyn.
Betting PostF1: pre-race piece here, including a tip:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/australia-pre-race.html
I haven't posted more because I imagine many are waiting for highlights and wanted to avoid spoilers.
Clegg must be pleased to still get a mention...
I hear plenty of things from Labour moderates. It's just most Labour members do not agree with them. I like what people such as Dan Jarvis say, but I am in a minority - or would be if I were a Labour member.
"for most Britons the Irish troubles and Mao's Cultural Revolution are ancient history if they recall them at all."
That's easy to forget. For under-twenties, the fall of the Berlin wall is history so they can embrace the Trot version happily. Hitler murdered millions, but Mao and Stalin, by comparison, were benevolent uncle figures who occasionally had to correct errors.
And for Jezza, that was always the case.
Edit ... Trots may be less forgiving of Stalin because of ice-pick related matters, but there are many more pick-and-mix varieties.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/710763029403541505
(click on the picture to see it
Peter Brookes
My cartoon Saturday @TheTimes on #Budget2016 fallout #IDSresigns https://t.co/BPjMCMrjXx
Fraser Nelson
Something else about Stephen Crabb, new Work & Pensions Secretary: he does God. Interview: https://t.co/TPsgFh7t71 https://t.co/tjRSIojvj1
I'm not betting on the race, for the reason of huge uncertainty surrounding the new team radio rules. The farce of qualifying could be turned into a tragedy of a race, with draconian penalties handed out during and after the race for teams talking to drivers about anything that isn't an imminent safety issue. Luckily it's on at 9am my time, I couldn't be arsed if I had to get up in the middle of the night to watch it, and I've not missed it since about 1989.
Oh, and which silly sports schedulers put the F1 race starting six hours after the end of the Six Nations finale..?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg
Only single persons.
Therefore a system that can not cope with the complex situations that most people in the UK live in.
Oh look who has given the Crystal Methodist a good soft soaping (AGAIN)...
John McDonnell pulls out of Sunday Politics. Labour getting almost as bad as Tories at providing senior people we can hold accountable.
That should advantage Raikkonen. They'll leave him alone, and that's ok, because he knows what he's doing.
Having read a bit more about him, and watched a couple of youtube videos of his speeches this morning, he has the X-factor.
He needs (a) a shave and (b) to find an answer to the handicap of his strong pro-Remain credentials, and relaxed attitude on immigration
If he do those, and impresses in office now he's SoS, he could go far.
From 1 April 2016 the waiting period until you receive any payment will increase from 13 to 39 weeks for new claims.
Support for Mortgage Intererst.
Betslips that are looking good right now:
Cameron to go before Corbyn
Betslips looking not so good right now:
Osborne
Better to phase it in and get it correct.
In God we Truss!
(I'll get me coat...)
(sadly)
And they enrolled one postcode in Scotland and one in Wales so they could claim to have started rolling out across Britain.
This was a few years back, but judging by the results so far not much has changed.
That's probably enough for Pong to think "hardcore homophobe"
He has a small constituency majority (sub-5000) to be a leader.
The commentators were debating earlier whether it was allowed to tell a driver that he had a DRS failure (yes) or a broken front wing (no, unless the FIA ask the team to tell the driver to stop). It's farcical and false, eliminates almost all radio traffic and strategy adaptations.
Quite a lot of economic migrants are coming from the "doing slightly better states" notably Senegal. The problem with increasing the prosperity a bit of the sort of states people migrate from is there is still a massive difference in standard of living, easily enough to drive migration, but the people concerned can now afford smartphones to see what they are missing in the rest of the world, and afford to pay for tickets and people smugglers to get them there.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-in-senegal-join-migrant-wave-despite-growing-prosperity-at-home-1434127244
Having worked for them,the DWP is the graveyard of all ambition where all social mobility is downwards.No bet.
Also there will be endless damaging grooming/sartorial stories, and comparison between him and Corbyn (another beardy), if he is leader up and against him in GE2020.
Get out the Gillette, and get rid.
Anyway, we'll see (well, hear, unless I also watch the highlights) how it goes.