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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB in lead for first time since last May as the Tories pay

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB in lead for first time since last May as the Tories pay the price for being split

More detail from Times story on its YouGov poll pic.twitter.com/hXp0reb6l8

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited March 2016
    Here we go again with more nonsense from the pollsters...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Dave Gorman's take down of the YouGov panel makeup is worth a second watch...all those Nazi's Dec fans vs the Maoist Ant fans...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: Of course Ed Miliband was 10 points clear at this point... #PartyPooper
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Just for old times sake

    Tonights YG JICIPM
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Corbynism sweeping the nation...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    This is like Dallas, I was sure I was on a thread about by elections, now it seems it's all a dream.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Double new-thread: refreshes your breath, naturally.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Just for old times sake

    Tonights YG JICIPM

    BJOWNCFTNPM.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863

    So what exactly in the budget was seen as unfair? He kicked all the tough decision down the road and increased personal tax threshold....

    Dave Gorman's take down of the YouGov panelist is worth a second watch...all those Nazi's Dec fans vs the Maoist Ant fans...
    Clue - £4bn cuts to disabled benefits to pay for a Corporation Tax cut et al
    I doubt it is that...TSE confirms, it seems like people are convinced they themselves are getting screwed by this budget...which just shows you people aren't actually reacting to what is in the budget.

    Past 6 years been several budgets that have shafted people and they didn't seem to notice and then when they aren't, they convinced they have been.
    People probably just run several years behind events - after all, people don't know how good they have got it till it's gone, as they say. Sometimes they don't know how bad they have had it either.

    In all honesty though without the negativity being thrown around over the EU business, he might have scraped through again, but the leaders seem damaged, their party divided and angry, so admission of failure on economic targets and the cumulative weight of the cuts narrative for years has probably found a more fertile audience than in previous years.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jezza keeping his trap shut and allowing Tories to gob off is a simple plan, but an effective one!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Imagine if he had gone to the original negotiating table with some real demands and actually threatened to walk away for real...I think we might have got a fair bit more than repeal of the great tampon tax.

    Hasn't been shafted on other VAT stuff at the same time? e.g. home insulation?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863
    Oh for heaven's sake, has nobody ever told Osborne not to over hype things?
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    Just for old times sake

    Tonights YG JICIPM

    YES BJO!!!!! ;)
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: Of course Ed Miliband was 10 points clear at this point... #PartyPooper

    Not with ICM.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    To be honest, given the council tax bill I got tonight, I might not declare Conservative to an opinion pollster right now.

    But I would almost certainly still vote for them if a GE was held tomorrow.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768

    Just for old times sake

    Tonights YG JICIPM

    BJOWNCFTNPM.
    LOL HARSH BUT FAIR
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863

    Jezza keeping his trap shut and allowing Tories to gob off is a simple plan, but an effective one!

    Yes - not sure it can lead to success, ultimately, but it's curious it took him so long to figure it out. I presume it is a genuine tactic too, as other than Ken insulting Jarvis a week or so ago I'd not heard much about him and Abbott in the past few months, when for the first few of Corbyn's leadership you couldn't go five minutes without them putting their foot in it.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Who would have thought that a hopelessly divided party would suffer in the polls?

    It will take the Conservatives about 15 years to work that out, of course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    edited March 2016
    Forget the polls.

    Liverpool knocked Manchester United out of Europe
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    SeanT said:

    Oh god. Tampons. Really? This is some great victory, or is this a joke?

    What a desperate bunch of shysters leads the Tory party. Just a ghastly busload of lying twits. Cameron is the worst of the lot. GET RID.
    Those 50 letters might well be coming in before June 23rd...
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    SeanT said:

    So ICM not an outlier. And ICM was BEFORE the Budget

    Europe is chewing up the Tories. Anyone associated with the Cameron "deal" will be tainted.

    If Cameron had actually stuck to what he said he would do — that if he couldn't get a good EU deal he might recommend leave — I don't think the Tory party would be in a mess. Most Tories would happily back leave under such circumstances. The conflict is a result of his rush to get the referendum over, useless negotiations, and laughable pretence that he has secured a good deal.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Removing VAT on tampons is just the sort of fundamental reform of the EU that the UK requires.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714

    To be honest, given the council tax bill I got tonight, I might not declare Conservative to an opinion pollster right now.

    But I would almost certainly still vote for them if a GE was held tomorrow.

    It's the conundrum CR. The locals on my council do a good job so I still vote for them. The central party is packed full of prats so I don't.
  • I've pissed off The Times, I published their polls before they did.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    SeanT said:

    Oh god. Tampons. Really? This is some great victory, or is this a joke?

    What a desperate bunch of shysters leads the Tory party. Just a ghastly busload of lying twits. Cameron is the worst of the lot. GET RID.
    Does this mean no more donations to great charity causes like rag week.

    BOO
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    In the great tome of the UK's history with the EU, we will have Major and Maastricht, Brown and Lisbon and Cameron repeal of the great tampon tax...
  • Bold prediction, those disability cuts are getting reversed PDQ
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    More like those who deserted the Lib Dems last year realising how much of an effect they did have in moderating Tory policies.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768

    Forget the polls.

    Liverpool knocked Manchester United out of Europe

    Liverpool REMAIN on course
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    To be honest, given the council tax bill I got tonight, I might not declare Conservative to an opinion pollster right now.

    But I would almost certainly still vote for them if a GE was held tomorrow.

    It's the conundrum CR. The locals on my council do a good job so I still vote for them. The central party is packed full of prats so I don't.
    Not a good enough job. I'm not voting for a 4% rise packed full of excuses.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863
    Mortimer said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. Tampons. Really? This is some great victory, or is this a joke?

    What a desperate bunch of shysters leads the Tory party. Just a ghastly busload of lying twits. Cameron is the worst of the lot. GET RID.
    Those 50 letters might well be coming in before June 23rd...
    That would be a mistake - unable to heal the Tory divide on Europe though he was, in fact he seems to have made it worse, Cameron is definitely not the worst of the lot. He'll be out on his ear if Remain lose anyway, not sure there's much benefit to the party in sparking a challenge beforehand.

    But if they want to go for it and ensure Farron is the most sensible of the party leaders in parliament (given Nicola is at Holyrood), sure, go for it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714

    Who would have thought that a hopelessly divided party would suffer in the polls?

    It will take the Conservatives about 15 years to work that out, of course.

    so about the same time as Labour and UKIP.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    I've pissed off The Times, I published their polls before they did.

    Just 3 minutes before.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Just for old times sake

    Tonights YG JICIPM

    BJOWNCFTNPM.
    LOL HARSH BUT FAIR
    :-D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Good poll for UKIP, incidentally.

    isam, who seems to be absent at present, will be pleased. I hope he'll return soon enough.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited March 2016

    Who would have thought that a hopelessly divided party would suffer in the polls?

    It will take the Conservatives about 15 years to work that out, of course.

    With McMao and Corbo leading the opposition, it will take them about 15 days.....
  • There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Who would have thought that a hopelessly divided party would suffer in the polls?

    It will take the Conservatives about 15 years to work that out, of course.

    so about the same time as Labour and UKIP.
    And the LDs are irrelevant and invisible.

    UK politics is in full churn right now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863

    There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.

    That's the trouble of course - the budget might not actually be that bad, and the bits that are may well be reversed, but all that will be remembered is the initial reaction.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Forget the polls.

    Liverpool knocked Manchester United out of Europe

    Spurs and Arsenal are also "concentrating on the League"

    It takes a heart of stone...
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Mortimer said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. Tampons. Really? This is some great victory, or is this a joke?

    What a desperate bunch of shysters leads the Tory party. Just a ghastly busload of lying twits. Cameron is the worst of the lot. GET RID.
    Those 50 letters might well be coming in before June 23rd...
    We can only hope.

    Cameron and Osborne are running the party into the ground.

    Another shambles of a budget. No doubt Osborne will backtrack on the cuts to disability payments in the next few weeks.
  • SeanT said:

    There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.

    You really think the Great Victory in the War of the Sanitary Pad Impost will signal an epochal resurgence in Tory polling?
    No - I really would not go that far
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
  • Forget the polls.

    Liverpool knocked Manchester United out of Europe

    Spurs and Arsenal are also "concentrating on the League"

    It takes a heart of stone...
    I have to dream we might meet in next season's Champions League.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    kle4 said:

    There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.

    That's the trouble of course - the budget might not actually be that bad, and the bits that are may well be reversed, but all that will be remembered is the initial reaction.

    Like Granny Tax and Pasty Tax budget...both in the grand scheme of things really rather minor, but that is what it was remembered for. Also, bizarre, whacking 10-15p on bottle of pop, thumbs up, whacking 10-15p on a pasty, booooooooooooooo.
  • I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.

    The budget was designed to win the referendum remember, Osborne miscalculated the results and it backfired, they know it backfired and they are trying to salvage it with tampons.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2016

    Forget the polls.

    Liverpool knocked Manchester United out of Europe

    Spurs and Arsenal are also "concentrating on the League"

    It takes a heart of stone...
    I have to dream we might meet in next season's Champions League.
    Most likely in the knockout stages.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    kle4 said:

    That's the trouble of course - the budget might not actually be that bad, and the bits that are may well be reversed, but all that will be remembered is the initial reaction.

    The omnishambles budget was like that as well. The Treasury seem to make a right balls up in a relatively minor change that overshadows the whole.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    That is the public saying...we want RON....Re-Open Nominations...
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    edited March 2016
    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?
    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Hmm, talking about a race to the bottom.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Speedy said:

    There is no doubt that the in fighting in the Conservatives is damaging and the budget cut to disability allowances is another mistake and does make you wonder why GO seems oblivious to it. I would comment that it is a bit too early to view the popularity of the measures in the budget and tonight's news of David Cameron's success in abolition of the tampon tax will prove popular. Hopefully the Conservative back bencher's will succeed in ameliorating the disability mistake but of course it is very damaging to GO.

    The budget was designed to win the referendum remember, Osborne miscalculated the results and it backfired, they know it backfired and they are trying to salvage it with tampons.
    Osborne's budgets remain a triumph of hype over experience.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863
    SeanT said:

    The idea of Osborne as leader is laughable. He must surely see that.

    Difficult to see a REMAINIAC winning in any event.

    People are skeptical of Boris, Gove is damaged by the Queen thingy, so.... who? If not BoJo?

    Patel? Dull and robotic, I recall someone saying, but I find it hard to believe Osborne's vaunted support with MPs will materialise if there is a leadership contest in the next year or so (as seems likely if Leave wins), and most of the others are also Remainers.

    IDS redux?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Speedy said:

    Hmm, talking about a race to the bottom.
    If we're being philosophical here, it's a race to de Botton.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    So ICM not an outlier. And ICM was BEFORE the Budget

    Europe is chewing up the Tories. Anyone associated with the Cameron "deal" will be tainted.

    If Cameron had actually stuck to what he said he would do — that if he couldn't get a good EU deal he might recommend leave — I don't think the Tory party would be in a mess. Most Tories would happily back leave under such circumstances. The conflict is a result of his rush to get the referendum over, useless negotiations, and laughable pretence that he has secured a good deal.
    Agree.
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    No way can Osborne be the next PM after this. He's terrible at presenting anything.

    Tories want to win above all else, hence its Bojo's on a plate.

    On the other hand, Corbyn and Co anywhere near power is a serious risk to everyone in the UK regardless of Tory PM.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    The idea of Osborne as leader is laughable. He must surely see that.

    Difficult to see a REMAINIAC winning in any event.

    People are skeptical of Boris, Gove is damaged by the Queen thingy, so.... who? If not BoJo?

    No one cares about the Queen thingy. The Conservatives are in an ideological purity stage, so Michael Gove looks superbly placed. That he is as popular as herpes with the general public is irrelevant.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    The idea of Osborne as leader is laughable. He must surely see that.

    Difficult to see a REMAINIAC winning in any event.

    People are skeptical of Boris, Gove is damaged by the Queen thingy, so.... who? If not BoJo?

    Patel? Dull and robotic, I recall someone saying, but I find it hard to believe Osborne's vaunted support with MPs will materialise if there is a leadership contest in the next year or so (as seems likely if Leave wins), and most of the others are also Remainers.

    IDS redux?
    Ooh please! That will do nicely.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    edited March 2016
    JWisemann said:

    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?

    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

    Your party is still lead by Godless terrorist-sympathising Marxists. Actually getting people to vote for that shower in 2020 will prove more challenging than you appear to think.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    JWisemann said:

    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?

    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

    Hahaha. There is no socialist hubris like that seen when they lead 1% in 1 poll; a situation that would likely result in socialists still not being in power.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This is even better than The Euro Sausage.

    I'm crying with laughter, what are they doing?!?
  • MP_SE said:

    Mortimer said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. Tampons. Really? This is some great victory, or is this a joke?

    What a desperate bunch of shysters leads the Tory party. Just a ghastly busload of lying twits. Cameron is the worst of the lot. GET RID.
    Those 50 letters might well be coming in before June 23rd...
    We can only hope.

    Cameron and Osborne are running the party into the ground.

    Another shambles of a budget. No doubt Osborne will backtrack on the cuts to disability payments in the next few weeks.
    It is unfortunate that all the good measures, and there were many, are being overshadowed by GO insensitivity over PIP. I have no doubt they will be reversed before Tuesday's vote but if I was a betting man(which I am not) the odds on GO being moved post 23rd June must be shortening (I think that's the right way of describing the odds but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Spot the pattern:

    ComRes
    CON -3
    LAB +2

    ICM
    CON -3
    LAB +4

    YouGov
    CON -4
    LAB +4

    This is not a fluke.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    That's novelty for you. Just imagine it, more people support Corbynite Labour that Cameroon Tories, even with all the Tory civil war and crap budget that seems insane, right?

    But that enough people claim that, even accepting we are a long way from an election, it still makes one pause in shock. It couldn't be, surely...
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    glw said:

    JWisemann said:

    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?

    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

    Your party is still lead by Godless terrorist-sympathising Marxists. Actually getting people to vote for that shower in 2020 will prove more challenging than you appear to think.
    We're not in 1953 Alabama.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Seems to me that the Tory party has fallen apart ever since Cameron brought back the dreadful "deal"

    When historians look at British political history I suspect they will date the peak of Tory hubris to the day before the Deal, when all seemed sunlit uplands: Corbyn as the feeble joke enemy, the Scot Nats defeated, the Lib Dems humiliated, UKIP at bay, the EU referendum a shoo-in.

    And now, here we are.

    I expect the Tories to win in 2020 if Corbyn stays leader, but the Tories won't be this cocky again for a generation. Or more.
    *cough*

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/10/15/antifrank-on-how-the-conservatives-will-lose-their-hegemony/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Outlier?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863
    Mortimer said:

    JWisemann said:

    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?

    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

    Hahaha. There is no socialist hubris like that seen when they lead 1% in 1 poll; a situation that would likely result in socialists still not being in power.
    Well sure, but they had a real tough time in the latter half of 2015 - even if this is a false dawn, and the Tory civil war is not as destructive as it appears it will be on their electoral prospects at least, Corbynistas and sympathising Labourites (that is to say, more Corbynites) deserve a little celebratory time.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Speedy said:

    Spot the pattern:

    ComRes
    CON -3
    LAB +2

    ICM
    CON -3
    LAB +4

    YouGov
    CON -4
    LAB +4

    This is not a fluke.

    Outliers
  • Oh dear. Osborne made me leave the Tory party in 2012 and he's now given Labour supporters who actually care about elections their first happy time in yonks. Shame that they don't have a team who could capitalise on that. Real shame.

    Second boy arrived yesterday, by the way. Home and well so all good!
  • I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Outlier?
    I don't know. Looking at the supplementaries, it is fixable for the Tories.

    Think Omnishambles budget redux.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    SeanT said:

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Seems to me that the Tory party has fallen apart ever since Cameron brought back the dreadful "deal"

    When historians look at British political history I suspect they will date the peak of Tory hubris to the day before the Deal, when all seemed sunlit uplands: Corbyn as the feeble joke enemy, the Scot Nats defeated, the Lib Dems humiliated, UKIP at bay, the EU referendum a shoo-in.

    And now, here we are.

    I expect the Tories to win in 2020 if Corbyn stays leader, but the Tories won't be this cocky again for a generation. Or more.
    yeah but the stupid cameroon twats will trade on Jezza in the hope that playing scaremonger will keep them in power. It wont. it's worth voting leave just to force the lazy numpties to actually get some policies and go looking for voters.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    SeanT said:

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Seems to me that the Tory party has fallen apart ever since Cameron brought back the dreadful "deal"

    When historians look at British political history I suspect they will date the peak of Tory hubris to the day before the Deal, when all seemed sunlit uplands: Corbyn as the feeble joke enemy, the Scot Nats defeated, the Lib Dems humiliated, UKIP at bay, the EU referendum a shoo-in.

    And now, here we are.
    Don't worry someone will soon be along to tell us that this is all part of Dave's brilliant plan to dock us in the EU, and that if we were only clever enough we would be able to see if for ourselves.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    No gripping local by-elections tonight?

    (LibDems and Labour doing well in those too)
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    I wouldnt expect these figures if there was an election tomorrow, though the trend for the week is pretty clear (could be reversed next week, who knows) - I'd expect the Tories to get a bit less than at the election and Labour a bit more, and for this to be enough to tip the Tories into an untenable minority government (noone will be willing to join them in coalition for the next generation or two after their duplicitous treatment of the Lib Dems after coalition, Labour after the Better Together campaign and Outters after the EU Ref).

    After all the relentless hyperbolic propaganda against Corbyn's very moderate Labour, it's pretty funny to see them surpass the Tories in popularity, though.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    The idea of Osborne as leader is laughable. He must surely see that.

    Difficult to see a REMAINIAC winning in any event.

    People are skeptical of Boris, Gove is damaged by the Queen thingy, so.... who? If not BoJo?

    Three women candidates -

    Penny Mordaunt,Andrea Leadsom and Nus Ghani.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    You all know my feelings on Cammo and Co, but YouGov is a company that I will never trust again to conduct a fair poll. Unfortunately, they are not the only ones tainted by their actions prior to the GE last May.
  • Oh dear. Osborne made me leave the Tory party in 2012 and he's now given Labour supporters who actually care about elections their first happy time in yonks. Shame that they don't have a team who could capitalise on that. Real shame.

    Second boy arrived yesterday, by the way. Home and well so all good!

    Congratulations you and your family.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    SeanT said:

    I've not see so much interest in a poll since the YouGov poll during the Indyref that put Yes ahead.

    Seems to me that the Tory party has fallen apart ever since Cameron brought back the dreadful "deal"

    When historians look at British political history I suspect they will date the peak of Tory hubris to the day before the Deal, when all seemed sunlit uplands: Corbyn as the feeble joke enemy, the Scot Nats defeated, the Lib Dems humiliated, UKIP at bay, the EU referendum a shoo-in.

    And now, here we are.

    I expect the Tories to win in 2020 if Corbyn stays leader, but the Tories won't be this cocky again for a generation. Or more.
    The natural political balance in this country has moved on such that the EU is now desperately unpopular and it clearly wants a rational PM, and sensible government, to credibly lead it to Leave.

    Instead the government is trying to force us to Remain through exploiting the innate small c-conservatism of the British people, and ramping up Project Fear to the n-th degree; a strategy in which it will probably succeed.

    But only temporarily. It is defying gravity, and it will have repercussions as any appeal to give an awful marriage one last try does. And the individual that did (in this case, Cameron) is never thanked for it.

    He had his chance at History, and he bottled it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    JWisemann said:

    Which wise sage said these prescient words back in September?

    JWisemann said:

    Enjoy your hubris Tories. 2015 is as good as it gets for the conservatives in the 21st century - a wafer thin majority, the first in decades, and probably the last, and you'll be spending most of it ripping yourselves apart. So have your fun.

    Hahaha. There is no socialist hubris like that seen when they lead 1% in 1 poll; a situation that would likely result in socialists still not being in power.
    Well sure, but they had a real tough time in the latter half of 2015 - even if this is a false dawn, and the Tory civil war is not as destructive as it appears it will be on their electoral prospects at least, Corbynistas and sympathising Labourites (that is to say, more Corbynites) deserve a little celebratory time.
    I was at my cousins wedding tonight. Was driving and turned down the Champagne. Turns out I should have booked a Taxi home post YG!!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited March 2016
    Speedy said:

    Spot the pattern:

    ComRes
    CON -3
    LAB +2

    ICM
    CON -3
    LAB +4

    YouGov
    CON -4
    LAB +4

    This is not a fluke.

    Of course the government is becoming more unpopular - We're nearly a year away from the general election and four away from the next one. That's what happens (ALWAYS)

    Fundamentally though, were a general election really to be held tomorrow does anybody honestly think it would result in anything other than a thumping win for the Conservatives and catastrophe for Corbyn's Labour?

    That said, Osborne is a disaster waiting to happen and this latest screw up with attacking the disabled is beyond belief really....

    Lab need to ditch Corbyn and get someone credible pronto because 2020 is winnable (especially if Con are mad enough to give Boy George the leadership)
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Speedy said:

    Spot the pattern:

    ComRes
    CON -3
    LAB +2

    ICM
    CON -3
    LAB +4

    YouGov
    CON -4
    LAB +4

    This is not a fluke.

    Outliers
    Not a fluke. Bleeding obvious. And it is Cameron's fault. He needs to shut up and back the blue side the the Liberal elite. Zac only has 10% chance. Cameron ha skilled him, perhaps deliberately. But Cameron likely to face leadership challenge for his dis-loyalty to the party.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    JWisemann said:

    I wouldnt expect these figures if there was an election tomorrow, though the trend for the week is pretty clear (could be reversed next week, who knows) - I'd expect the Tories to get a bit less than at the election and Labour a bit more, and for this to be enough to tip the Tories into an untenable minority government (noone will be willing to join them in coalition for the next generation or two after their duplicitous treatment of the Lib Dems after coalition, Labour after the Better Together campaign and Outters after the EU Ref).

    After all the relentless hyperbolic propaganda against Corbyn's very moderate Labour, it's pretty funny to see them surpass the Tories in popularity, though.

    Very moderate?

    Keep the jokes coming!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    Why did they even bother proposing the cuts to disability payments?

    It's obvious they won't go through.

    I think we're now at the stage where no benefits can be cut at all - in cash terms. All they can do is freeze everything - which is largely what they are doing - and then let inflation erode their real value.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    SeanT said:

    The idea of Osborne as leader is laughable. He must surely see that.

    Difficult to see a REMAINIAC winning in any event.

    People are skeptical of Boris, Gove is damaged by the Queen thingy, so.... who? If not BoJo?

    Three women candidates -

    Penny Mordaunt,Andrea Leadsom and Nus Ghani.
    The Tory women are extremely impressive.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    I see that we are in an unusual, perhaps unique, position tonight, where Roger's specialist experience would provide an unparalleled insight into the the central political development of the day.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Oh dear. Osborne made me leave the Tory party in 2012 and he's now given Labour supporters who actually care about elections their first happy time in yonks. Shame that they don't have a team who could capitalise on that. Real shame.

    Second boy arrived yesterday, by the way. Home and well so all good!

    Congratulations.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Oh dear. Osborne made me leave the Tory party in 2012 and he's now given Labour supporters who actually care about elections their first happy time in yonks. Shame that they don't have a team who could capitalise on that. Real shame.

    Second boy arrived yesterday, by the way. Home and well so all good!

    Congrats Lucian.

    Right, must head off to bed. For tomorrow, I rise at dawn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,863
    JWisemann said:


    After all the relentless hyperbolic propaganda against Corbyn's very moderate Labour, it's pretty funny to see them surpass the Tories in popularity, though.

    Funny though it is (though as I've often reflected, I recall even such as Dan Hodges predicting pre-Corbyn election that under him Labour still would lead at some point), surely it's integral to the Corbyn brand appeal that he is very much not moderate? Not a raving loony as his opponents portray, of course, but I thought he was supposed to be radical and visionary and all that cobbler.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    Congrats Lucian.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Project "Save Corbyn" going tremendously well :)
This discussion has been closed.