Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
My husband works in IT and his company has outsourced the majority of the coding work to Thailand and India. They are now are now looking coders based in Poland instead of India, as India is getting more expensive and the quality of work in Poland is thought to be better.
My husband says that not many coding jobs ever come up at his place, but when they do, the company struggles to recruit. There simply don't seem to be enough people in the UK with the right skill sets.
Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
I'd agree. Although I know some excellent Indian engineers working in the EU, UK and US, none of the projects I've seen outsourced to India have gone well - one was an almost biblical disaster. The few I've seen outsourced to Eastern Europe have been much more successful. But beware anecdata ...
If that's a common problem, the question becomes why? Do all the good engineers leave India, or is it that Indian management hinders their engineers? I'd say it's a bit of both, with a heavier emphasis on the latter.
(I've also known two stellar Russian engineers. It's time that country actually started using their engineers rather than exporting them).
Thanks. Sadly I'm still unwell - it seems that alongside the headaches and tinnitus, I've got some slight issues with my short-term memory. Silly little things like going to the shop and forgetting everything I went for, but getting loads of stuff I didn't really need. Time will tell if they'll improve or stay the same, but it's certainly very *different* to how I was before.
My life has become a sticky-note fest. I feel a bit like Leonard Shelby.
For this reason, I'm not in the best position to argue about politics. Now, what was I saying...
Has anyone else here ever had a slightly sore throat for 2 months + ? The doc has recommended a steroid nasal spray which is taking the edge off it but it is annoying as hell !
Welcome back, Mr. Jessop. Hope your short-term memory improves.
On F1: I think the Mercedes stopped at the end of the pit lane, which suggests it's not a fuel issue (unless they filled it with diesel). The halo does look bloody awful. I'm also concerned that if a situation such as Massa 2009 at Hungary occurs (heavy spring from a car behind hits the driver, or halo, in this theoretical case) the halo might break, and that could actually be worse for the driver.
Mr Johnson told of his frustration that EU regulations stopped him from doing his job effectively as Mayor. He revealed that City Hall was almost forced to spend hundreds of millions on digging wider tunnels for Crossrail 1 so German trains could use them.
“What a load of cobblers,” he said. “You are not going to get German trains running on Crossrail.” He criticised regulations for blocking him from requiring safer lorries “because Renault doesn’t yet have its models ready”. “So, female cyclists get crushed because those tipper trucks are not designed to save lives,” said the Mayor.
Almost. The sad point for our economy is that the boring machines themselves came from Germany. The other sad fact is that successive mayors have encouraged cycling without doing much to make the road network suitable for it. London's own buses however are also pretty deadly to cyclists.
Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
I'd agree. Although I know some excellent Indian engineers working in the EU, UK and US, none of the projects I've seen outsourced to India have gone well - one was an almost biblical disaster. The few I've seen outsourced to Eastern Europe have been much more successful. But beware anecdata ...
If that's a common problem, the question becomes why? Do all the good engineers leave India, or is it that Indian management hinders their engineers? I'd say it's a bit of both, with a heavier emphasis on the latter.
(I've also known two stellar Russian engineers. It's time that country actually started using their engineers rather than exporting them).
Speaking to people in a number of industries that have outsourced to India they always say getting good management is a big problem.
In my somewhat limited experience there is also a cultural barrier as well. Indian culture is to nod and say 'Yessir' when being explained to what is required - to have to ask exploratory or clarifying questions is almost seen as failure in some way. What then comes back is something totally different to what was requested. Might just have been the team I was working with, but immensely frustrating.
Memory loss is a function of the wisdom of great maturity and as such being the sites eldest of Elder Statesman I can tell you I haven't the faintest clue why I started this comment ....
David Cameron tells the SNP:" End the grudge, the gripe and the grievance and start to govern Scotland."
and Nicole says "what after yesterday ? Francois a mate of mine"
It's good we have excellent relations with the French.
Entente Cordiale and all that jazz. I hope you're not one of those little Englanders that keep on mocking the French and want them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Nah like Sir Humphrey Appleby I understand the real reason why we need to retain a nuclear detrrent. :-)
Same here.
so how do you account for our PMs behaviour yesterday ?
Chap's got a referendum to win and he's a ruthless bugger.
During the AV referendum his side said AV would put the lives of babies at risk.
This is nothing.
It's on film
For ever.
The stain stays with him for life.
No referendum is worth that.
Generations of Frenchmen will play it back and laugh in your face.
I'll always have Waterloo, Agincourt, and Mers-el-Kébir
Tu veux voir la salope du President ?
He's no-one's bitch. Well maybe a rump of pig's bitch.
Hmm, his boot licking of Hollande yesterday is evidence to the contrary. It's sad that the fairly popular British PM is out licking the boots (and balls) of far more unpopular leaders like Hollande and Merkel.
If Dave realised that the political implications of leaving for him are probably a net gain (as a Tory) the deal would have been much better, but Osborne is just absolutely poisonous because Leave destroys his career and chances of ever being PM.
David Cameron tells the SNP:" End the grudge, the gripe and the grievance and start to govern Scotland."
and Nicole says "what after yesterday ? Francois a mate of mine"
It's good we have excellent relations with the French.
Entente Cordiale and all that jazz. I hope you're not one of those little Englanders that keep on mocking the French and want them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Nah like Sir Humphrey Appleby I understand the real reason why we need to retain a nuclear detrrent. :-)
Same here.
so how do you account for our PMs behaviour yesterday ?
Chap's got a referendum to win and he's a ruthless bugger.
During the AV referendum his side said AV would put the lives of babies at risk.
This is nothing.
It's on film
For ever.
The stain stays with him for life.
No referendum is worth that.
Generations of Frenchmen will play it back and laugh in your face.
I'll always have Waterloo, Agincourt, and Mers-el-Kébir
Tu veux voir la salope du President ?
He's no-one's bitch. Well maybe a rump of pig's bitch.
Hmm, his boot licking of Hollande yesterday is evidence to the contrary. It's sad that the fairly popular British PM is out licking the boots (and balls) of far more unpopular leaders like Hollande and Merkel.
If Dave realised that the political implications of leaving for him are probably a net gain (as a Tory) the deal would have been much better, but Osborne is just absolutely poisonous because Leave destroys his career and chances of ever being PM.
Hmmm. Cameron licking Merkel's balls.
That's put paid to lunch....
Want me to put the Yvette Cooper/Ed Balls image into your head? Would that help ?
Literally GO's modus operandi every time - build something bad up, abandon it; so as to keep the pre-budget/AS narrative distracted
There are various pensions proposals. This sort of consultation is normal. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/strengthening-the-incentive-to-save-a-consultation-on-pensions-tax-relief The restriction of tax relief for pension contributions is a valid point for discussion. One proposal for instance is to offer no tax relief on the contributions but make pensions themselves tax free. There is some logic to this not least I think because the govt have liberalised the rules about how you use a pensions lump sum. But there will be different opinions. The govt's published purpose is to encourage pension contributions. The govt is grasping the nettle ignored by Labour but I do not expect self serving leavers to give them any credit.
In my somewhat limited experience there is also a cultural barrier as well. Indian culture is to nod and say 'Yessir' when being explained to what is required - to have to ask exploratory or clarifying questions is almost seen as failure in some way. What then comes back is something totally different to what was requested. Might just have been the team I was working with, but immensely frustrating.
Interesting you should say that. I outsourced two small projects a couple of years ago to an Indian development company (my first and only experience of doing so) and I had exactly this experience. I spent so much time have to clarify again and again and again what I wanted and not what I was being presented with. The project overran by months, because it felt like we were stuck this cycle of them doing work I neither asked for nor wanted, and not doing what I was paying for. It was an extremely frustrating experience.
I have since used some people in Estonia on another project and had totally the opposite experience.
David Cameron tells the SNP:" End the grudge, the gripe and the grievance and start to govern Scotland."
and Nicole says "what after yesterday ? Francois a mate of mine"
It's good we have excellent relations with the French.
Entente Cordiale and all that jazz. I hope you're not one of those little Englanders that keep on mocking the French and want them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Nah like Sir Humphrey Appleby I understand the real reason why we need to retain a nuclear detrrent. :-)
Same here.
so how do you account for our PMs behaviour yesterday ?
Chap's got a referendum to win and he's a ruthless bugger.
During the AV referendum his side said AV would put the lives of babies at risk.
This is nothing.
It's on film
For ever.
The stain stays with him for life.
No referendum is worth that.
Generations of Frenchmen will play it back and laugh in your face.
I'll always have Waterloo, Agincourt, and Mers-el-Kébir
Tu veux voir la salope du President ?
He's no-one's bitch. Well maybe a rump of pig's bitch.
Hmm, his boot licking of Hollande yesterday is evidence to the contrary. It's sad that the fairly popular British PM is out licking the boots (and balls) of far more unpopular leaders like Hollande and Merkel.
If Dave realised that the political implications of leaving for him are probably a net gain (as a Tory) the deal would have been much better, but Osborne is just absolutely poisonous because Leave destroys his career and chances of ever being PM.
Hmmm. Cameron licking Merkel's balls.
That's put paid to lunch....
Want me to put the Yvette Cooper/Ed Balls image into your head? Would that help ?
David Cameron tells the SNP:" End the grudge, the gripe and the grievance and start to govern Scotland."
and Nicole says "what after yesterday ? Francois a mate of mine"
It's good we have excellent relations with the French.
Entente Cordiale and all that jazz. I hope you're not one of those little Englanders that keep on mocking the French and want them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Nah like Sir Humphrey Appleby I understand the real reason why we need to retain a nuclear detrrent. :-)
Same here.
so how do you account for our PMs behaviour yesterday ?
Chap's got a referendum to win and he's a ruthless bugger.
During the AV referendum his side said AV would put the lives of babies at risk.
This is nothing.
It's on film
For ever.
The stain stays with him for life.
No referendum is worth that.
Generations of Frenchmen will play it back and laugh in your face.
I'll always have Waterloo, Agincourt, and Mers-el-Kébir
Tu veux voir la salope du President ?
He's no-one's bitch. Well maybe a rump of pig's bitch.
Hmm, his boot licking of Hollande yesterday is evidence to the contrary. It's sad that the fairly popular British PM is out licking the boots (and balls) of far more unpopular leaders like Hollande and Merkel.
If Dave realised that the political implications of leaving for him are probably a net gain (as a Tory) the deal would have been much better, but Osborne is just absolutely poisonous because Leave destroys his career and chances of ever being PM.
Hmmm. Cameron licking Merkel's balls.
That's put paid to lunch....
Want me to put the Yvette Cooper/Ed Balls image into your head? Would that help ?
For once, yes!
The country will never elect as PM someone who in all likelihood has fellated Ed Balls.
George Osborne is under pressure to stage a double retreat on pensions and party funding in this month’s Budget to strip away “barnacles” during the EU referendum, say ministers.
The Chancellor is set to shelve both a raid on pension pots and a cut to state funding given to Labour and other opposition parties.
Conservative MPs are threatening a revolt if he attempts to cut tax relief on pension contributions for 40 per cent rate taxpayers and offers a flat rate of relief at, say 25 per cent, for everyone.
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
It depends: 'computer programming' covers a vastly wide area. A friend of mine in this village works writing software for mathematicians (so obviously her maths has to be very good), whilst many 'programming' jobs are really software engineering, where you do everything from analysis through to testing on your little area. Although that's probably better termed 'software engineering'.
Often, being able to read, interpret and question (sometimes vague) specs is more important than pure coding skills, although that'll be controversial with some.
When I was working, I'd find I'd have to relearn some maths a couple of times every year when code touched on something I'd forgotten. Aside from that, it was mostly the basics. If you're doing assembler, then I'd say *really* good knowledge of different ways of achieving the same results in basic maths is vital. I.e. is it quicker to multiply by eight, or perform a barrel shift?
Well thanks for that. I suppose if you are immersed in it especially from an early age then programming is like learning a language. I've always felt/assumed it was that kind of ability or gift that programming needs.
Memory loss is a function of the wisdom of great maturity and as such being the sites eldest of Elder Statesman I can tell you I haven't the faintest clue why I started this comment ....
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
We should be careful not to confuse Computer Science and Computer Programming. Again, unfortunately many kids are mis-sold degrees under this guise.
Seven words that strike fear into the wallet of JackW ....
To be honest, I wore the most comfortable pair of shoes ever the other day. A snip at £550 but since they were crocodile leather and I have far too my friends who would disown me for wearing such things, I declined.
Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
My husband works in IT and his company has outsourced the majority of the coding work to Thailand and India. They are now are now looking coders based in Poland instead of India, as India is getting more expensive and the quality of work in Poland is thought to be better.
My husband says that not many coding jobs ever come up at his place, but when they do, the company struggles to recruit. There simply don't seem to be enough people in the UK with the right skill sets.
And it is easier for companies to outsource rather than train. Not to mention cheaper than paying more to attract higher-level applicants.
Cynicism aside, and back to anecdote. When I was recruiting programmers a decade or so back, a lot of the new graduates could not program *even* in the languages they claimed. Is this because -- expanding your list -- universities are now trying to teach so many languages that they end up with students who can write "hello, world" but not much else in 37 different tongues?
Seven words that strike fear into the wallet of JackW ....
To be honest, I wore the most comfortable pair of shoes ever the other day. A snip at £550 but since they were crocodile leather and I have far too my friends who would disown me for wearing such things, I declined.
I shouldn't worry unless your friends are crocodile and then you might shed their tears.
Well thanks for that. I suppose if you are immersed in it especially from an early age then programming is like learning a language. I've always felt/assumed it was that kind of ability or gift that programming needs.
I'm not very good at learning human languages, but computer languages were easy.
You need a structured/logical/hierarchical thinking for software: particularly for the design and bug-finding where all the hard stuff is.
Seven words that strike fear into the wallet of JackW ....
To be honest, I wore the most comfortable pair of shoes ever the other day. A snip at £550 but since they were crocodile leather and I have far too my friends who would disown me for wearing such things, I declined.
Guy barges into a shoe shop: "Get me a pair of crocodile leather shoes - and make it snappy".
Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
My husband works in IT and his company has outsourced the majority of the coding work to Thailand and India. They are now are now looking coders based in Poland instead of India, as India is getting more expensive and the quality of work in Poland is thought to be better.
My husband says that not many coding jobs ever come up at his place, but when they do, the company struggles to recruit. There simply don't seem to be enough people in the UK with the right skill sets.
And it is easier for companies to outsource rather than train. Not to mention cheaper than paying more to attract higher-level applicants.
Cynicism aside, and back to anecdote. When I was recruiting programmers a decade or so back, a lot of the new graduates could not program *even* in the languages they claimed. Is this because -- expanding your list -- universities are now trying to teach so many languages that they end up with students who can write "hello, world" but not much else in 37 different tongues?
Is it viable for companies to train and hold in house for circumstances that might only occur rarely or irregularly and maybe for different types of need? I suppose for companies like Rolls Royce Aero or BAe it might be different
Seven words that strike fear into the wallet of JackW ....
To be honest, I wore the most comfortable pair of shoes ever the other day. A snip at £550 but since they were crocodile leather and I have far too my friends who would disown me for wearing such things, I declined.
Guy barges into a shoe shop: "Get me a pair of crocodile leather shoes - and make it snappy".
Well thanks for that. I suppose if you are immersed in it especially from an early age then programming is like learning a language. I've always felt/assumed it was that kind of ability or gift that programming needs.
I'm not very good at learning human languages, but computer languages were easy.
You need a structured/logical/hierarchical thinking for software: particularly for the design and bug-finding where all the hard stuff is.
Did I reads somewhere that the sudy of Latin is useful in learning to produce softweare, because of the need for precisely that sort of thinking?
There is a lot of sound and fury at present with remain being accused of project fear and leave crying foul without actually addressing the issues. IDS speaking out and threatening cohesion with the party may make him feel better but in the end the party will not seek David Cameron resignation no matter what the result as seen in the this poll - 'Among Conservative party members there is very little call for Cameron to make an early departure – only 20% think he should step down in 2016 or 2017 (roughly the same proportion as think he should change his mind and contest the next election – the majority think he should stay till at least 2019)'. In the wider party membership the expectation will be that parties on both sides accept the result and come together to govern the Country. Anyone who thinks a mutiny by some will succeed will be disregarding the membership greater desire at their peril.
Spot on - yet for many on here - he is the devil incarnate. Yet he gave them the referendum they craved and now they're crying foul because he is being a politician. I find it odd given what is happening to the Labour party that they cannot see the danger of trying to pull the party to the right. What next - repeal of gay marriage?
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
We should be careful not to confuse Computer Science and Computer Programming. Again, unfortunately many kids are mis-sold degrees under this guise.
That was really the point of my question.
I used to laugh when people would ask me to 'fix' their computers. Once my mum said: "My son's in IT; he'll fix it for you." Whereas I was actually a software engineer, and had no great knowledge of the OS I was supposed to 'fix'.
Whilst being a software engineer means you can often fix simple problems, it's a world apart from 'proper' IT, where people design networks, image PCs and fix things on a daily basis.
In summary: (Computer programming < software engineering) != computer science != IT
They're very different disciplines nowadays, albeit with some commonality.
David Cameron tells the SNP:" End the grudge, the gripe and the grievance and start to govern Scotland."
and Nicole says "what after yesterday ? Francois a mate of mine"
It's good we have excellent relations with the French.
Entente Cordiale and all that jazz. I hope you're not one of those little Englanders that keep on mocking the French and want them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Nah like Sir Humphrey Appleby I understand the real reason why we need to retain a nuclear detrrent. :-)
Same here.
so how do you account for our PMs behaviour yesterday ?
Chap's got a referendum to win and he's a ruthless bugger.
During the AV referendum his side said AV would put the lives of babies at risk.
This is nothing.
It's on film
For ever.
The stain stays with him for life.
No referendum is worth that.
Generations of Frenchmen will play it back and laugh in your face.
I'll always have Waterloo, Agincourt, and Mers-el-Kébir
Tu veux voir la salope du President ?
He's no-one's bitch. Well maybe a rump of pig's bitch.
Hmm, his boot licking of Hollande yesterday is evidence to the contrary. It's sad that the fairly popular British PM is out licking the boots (and balls) of far more unpopular leaders like Hollande and Merkel.
If Dave realised that the political implications of leaving for him are probably a net gain (as a Tory) the deal would have been much better, but Osborne is just absolutely poisonous because Leave destroys his career and chances of ever being PM.
Hmmm. Cameron licking Merkel's balls.
That's put paid to lunch....
Want me to put the Yvette Cooper/Ed Balls image into your head? Would that help ?
For once, yes!
The country will never elect as PM someone who in all likelihood has fellated Ed Balls.
On how many occasions has a serving Prime Minister fellated anyone, I wonder.
George Osborne is under pressure to stage a double retreat on pensions and party funding in this month’s Budget to strip away “barnacles” during the EU referendum, say ministers.
The Chancellor is set to shelve both a raid on pension pots and a cut to state funding given to Labour and other opposition parties.
Conservative MPs are threatening a revolt if he attempts to cut tax relief on pension contributions for 40 per cent rate taxpayers and offers a flat rate of relief at, say 25 per cent, for everyone.
Well said. I did Computer Science in 1980s. There was a separate degree at the time called Data Processing, which focused on data, databases, commercial systems, COBOL etc. Obviously there was a bit of cross-over.
A huge amount of my course was studying the science of computation e.g. maths, theory, stats, logic etc. Plenty of time was expected on programming as well however. We had to learn Pascal, C, Assembler, Fortran as well as obscure stuff like Snobol.
All of it was very interesting, but how much of all this was relevant in the world of work? Very little frankly. I had jobs as software engineer and mostly it was grunt coding work that did not require a degree.
I warn kids of today a lot about this when considering which uni / degree course, as I firmly believe that just like semi-skilled / mid level manufacturing jobs are now all in China, "grunt" coding work will follow the same path (it already is tbh). There will still be demand for highly skilled high educated, but even today increasingly you are seeing places like Eastern Europe growing for this kind of work. Actually that is harsh on Eastern Europe, they are doing a lot more than just grunt work, and doing it a lot better than out sourcing to India.
My husband works in IT and his company has outsourced the majority of the coding work to Thailand and India. They are now are now looking coders based in Poland instead of India, as India is getting more expensive and the quality of work in Poland is thought to be better.
My husband says that not many coding jobs ever come up at his place, but when they do, the company struggles to recruit. There simply don't seem to be enough people in the UK with the right skill sets.
And it is easier for companies to outsource rather than train. Not to mention cheaper than paying more to attract higher-level applicants.
Cynicism aside, and back to anecdote. When I was recruiting programmers a decade or so back, a lot of the new graduates could not program *even* in the languages they claimed. Is this because -- expanding your list -- universities are now trying to teach so many languages that they end up with students who can write "hello, world" but not much else in 37 different tongues?
Could be these days, although we were expected to get pretty intense with the languages. There was a huge amount of work to do, that was for sure. It was common to be in the programming lab at 8 or 9 at night, whilst all the arts students were in the bar discussing Plato :-)
A counter argument to all this is that industry doesn't know enough computer science. For example, ideas about formal proving of software. It's more hack and run.
Mr. Whaley, things have been grumpier than usual around here, of late, but do come back soon.
Not helped by the inability of a select few to see any fault what so ever in the PM. Just about all the kippers and kipper inclined have been critical, sometimes severely so, of Farage. Very few of the left have much good to say about Corbyn, and yet when Dave starts embarrassing himself by prostrating himself before other leaders, or running around telling the most blatant porkies, they won't hear a word said against him - some haven't even brought themselves to admit that we actually paid in full that "appalling" £1.7bn that he said he would never pay. Its not loyalty so much as acute myopia.
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
We should be careful not to confuse Computer Science and Computer Programming. Again, unfortunately many kids are mis-sold degrees under this guise.
That was really the point of my question.
I used to laugh when people would ask me to 'fix' their computers. Once my mum said: "My son's in IT; he'll fix it for you." Whereas I was actually a software engineer, and had no great knowledge of the OS I was supposed to 'fix'.
Whilst being a software engineer means you can often fix simple problems, it's a world apart from 'proper' IT, where people design networks, image PCs and fix things on a daily basis.
In summary: (Computer programming < software engineering) != computer science != IT
They're very different disciplines nowadays, albeit with some commonality.
If you think that is bad, try telling somebody you are a professional gambler for a living....
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Former richest man in Brazil throws gold coins worth £130,000 into the sea off of Rio de Janeiro in a bid to appease 'the Queen of the Sea' and return to glory
Well thanks for that. I suppose if you are immersed in it especially from an early age then programming is like learning a language. I've always felt/assumed it was that kind of ability or gift that programming needs.
I'm not very good at learning human languages, but computer languages were easy.
You need a structured/logical/hierarchical thinking for software: particularly for the design and bug-finding where all the hard stuff is.
Did I reads somewhere that the sudy of Latin is useful in learning to produce softweare, because of the need for precisely that sort of thinking?
I vaguely remember that from somewhere also, but never been convinced of it.
Latin is more logical than other languages, but probably just a consequence of being a dead one.
George Osborne is under pressure to stage a double retreat on pensions and party funding in this month’s Budget to strip away “barnacles” during the EU referendum, say ministers.
The Chancellor is set to shelve both a raid on pension pots and a cut to state funding given to Labour and other opposition parties.
Conservative MPs are threatening a revolt if he attempts to cut tax relief on pension contributions for 40 per cent rate taxpayers and offers a flat rate of relief at, say 25 per cent, for everyone.
Mr. Urquhart, once got a very odd look from a woman when I mentioned (after she enquired) I was writing a fantasy book. Wouldn't've have been worse if I'd said I made my furniture from human remains.
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
We should be careful not to confuse Computer Science and Computer Programming. Again, unfortunately many kids are mis-sold degrees under this guise.
That was really the point of my question.
I used to laugh when people would ask me to 'fix' their computers. Once my mum said: "My son's in IT; he'll fix it for you." Whereas I was actually a software engineer, and had no great knowledge of the OS I was supposed to 'fix'.
Whilst being a software engineer means you can often fix simple problems, it's a world apart from 'proper' IT, where people design networks, image PCs and fix things on a daily basis.
In summary: (Computer programming < software engineering) != computer science != IT
They're very different disciplines nowadays, albeit with some commonality.
If you think that is bad, try telling somebody you are a professional gambler for a living....
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Interesting. I could certainly tell you a thing or two about Plessey management (my first software job). The fact that the company no longer exists gives you a clue.
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
We have a lot of poorly run small companies in UK. In Germany there is a much bigger culture of family firms hiring in professional management, and the difference shows.
It is a long time ago now, when I was a very young lecturer at Imperial in the maths department I taught a lot of courses for computer science undergrads. I don't think the computer science degree added much of use day to day. The two best programers I know are an ex squaddie and an ex Plessey wireman. The generic computer science graduates came and went without leaving much trace.
Before the war you would have a 5 year apprenticeship in watch repairing - compressed to 6 months during the war. Why not 6 month courses in applicable software training, companies could sponser the course to match their needs. Commercial programming isn't an IQ test...
Mrs Thatcher's government had that (sort of) for the long-term unemployed. I had to choose between a postgrad diploma in AI and six months of Unix and C. There were lots of non-computer courses too, iirc. Trouble is, the introduction of tuition fees makes it harder to repeat these offers, or would-be postgrads will game the system by leaving their jobs to qualify and save themselves £8,000 or whatever an MSc costs these days.
An MSc course always cost £8000. You could argue it was gaming the system previously by taking it for free. As an interested question - is computer programming dependent on mathematics or scientific ability/knowledge? Is computer science really related to programming or does it lead to other fields of study/work?
We should be careful not to confuse Computer Science and Computer Programming. Again, unfortunately many kids are mis-sold degrees under this guise.
That was really the point of my question.
I used to laugh when people would ask me to 'fix' their computers. Once my mum said: "My son's in IT; he'll fix it for you." Whereas I was actually a software engineer, and had no great knowledge of the OS I was supposed to 'fix'.
Whilst being a software engineer means you can often fix simple problems, it's a world apart from 'proper' IT, where people design networks, image PCs and fix things on a daily basis.
In summary: (Computer programming < software engineering) != computer science != IT
They're very different disciplines nowadays, albeit with some commonality.
If you think that is bad, try telling somebody you are a professional gambler for a living....
Like the car insurance company?
Amazingly, my car insurance premium actually went up when I became a company director...
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Anecdote alert:
I agree that management can be a problem. A short while after I started at Acorn, I was in early one morning making coffee in the kitchen. The MD walked in and we started chatting. He asked me what I was working on, and I told him.
I expected to be told that the project was really good, that we were working really hard and it was all going to be great. Basically, a pep talk from a boss to a very junior engineer. Instead, he more or less ignored my answer and said something like: "Well, I'm only here until I get my pension." There was no enthusiasm, no acknowledgement of the great stuff the company was doing, or could do.
It was utterly demoralising, especially as we were doing some very interesting (and potentially very profitable) stuff at the time. Some of which he later canned, and others his successor.
His successor was very different, and a much more (ahem) fiscally minded individual. For his own benefit, if not the company's...
Former richest man in Brazil throws gold coins worth £130,000 into the sea off of Rio de Janeiro in a bid to appease 'the Queen of the Sea' and return to glory
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Anecdote alert:
I agree that management can be a problem. A short while after I started at Acorn, I was in early one morning making coffee in the kitchen. The MD walked in and we started chatting. He asked me what I was working on, and I told him.
I expected to be told that the project was really good, that we were working really hard and it was all going to be great. Basically, a pep talk from a boss to a very junior engineer. Instead, he more or less ignored my answer and said something like: "Well, I'm only here until I get my pension." There was no enthusiasm, no acknowledgement of the great stuff the company was doing, or could do.
It was utterly demoralising, especially as we were doing some very interesting (and potentially very profitable) stuff at the time. Some of which he later canned, and others his successor.
His successor was very different, and a much more (ahem) fiscally minded individual. For his own benefit, if not the company's...
Well thanks for that. I suppose if you are immersed in it especially from an early age then programming is like learning a language. I've always felt/assumed it was that kind of ability or gift that programming needs.
I'm not very good at learning human languages, but computer languages were easy.
You need a structured/logical/hierarchical thinking for software: particularly for the design and bug-finding where all the hard stuff is.
I can see that, especially with bug finding. But equally with language - on the one hand you have a Shakespeare but on the other you have a McGonagall.
Thanks for the kind comments below. Hopefully I'll be back on form (as bad as that might be) soon. In the meantime I'll sign off for a while.
(As for those of you who have read my posts in the past and thought: "That Josias Jessop needs his head checking"? well, you were right, if a little premature. )
For the innocents like Miss CycleFree who have no idea about common euphemisms and innuendoes
grab a granny night
social event frequented by more mature women milfs, supposedly on the lookout for casual sex don't go to the club on a Thursday, it is grab a granny night
Puerto Rico: No tenemos ningún dato buenas, pero hay un montón de veteranos en Puerto Rico, por lo que estamos apostando por Donald Trump. Los puertorriqueños no votan para los cubanos. WILDCATTERS' LOSERS (Republican Caucus): Rafael y Marco.
Kansas: With all due respect to Thomas Frank, what's not the matter with Kansas these days? The Jayhawks are running their government on Groupon and deposit bottles, so Barack Obama's ancestral homeland cancelled the primary in favor of caucuses, or a Mad Max car rally depending on gas prices. Even though friends don't let friends forecast caucuses, we're venturing out into the deep unknown with no data and no sense of what's going on up there in Oz. WILDCATTERS' LOSER (Democratic Caucus): The Witch WILDCATTERS' LOSER (Republican Caucus): The Tin Man
Dan Hannan If you think I'm overdoing these pro-EU scare stories, by the way, listen to Enda Kenny: https://t.co/Z7JZpGW6vd
Britain leaving the European Union could see the Troubles start again in Northern Ireland, Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny has said.
Speaking at the CBI conference, Mr Kenny said that the European Union had been an “important, perhaps underestimated, enabler of peace in Northern Ireland”.
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Interesting. I could certainly tell you a thing or two about Plessey management (my first software job). The fact that the company no longer exists gives you a clue.
Psion is always the classic example of what could have been and poor management in Britain. The industrial problems we have are equally caused by short termist management interested in nothing but their bonus as well as inflexible unions. The latter problem is going away as the workforce has privatised massively over the last 30 years, but poor management is something that won't go away until the education system is fixed or foreign managers/owners come and do the job like JLR.
I think a lot of British firms would be better run if they out sourced the management... I became a director of a public library software firm after I and the Plessey programmer built them a new system, it was the most successful product of its time (the issue and return desks are a very small part of a public library system, don't judge it from what you see). There was absolutely no interest in the firm's business at any level, we could have been selling cabbages. With the exception of the chairman the other directors were the most lazy, incompetent and vicious people you would ever be likely to meet. The only substantive point was that the software was finished so there should be no resource on it - office politics you understand - and it should be outsourced - but the firm somehow needed 100 employees. If you recognise the firm I should mention it is under new ownership and not a single person of the 100 strong old company is still employed there.
Interesting. I could certainly tell you a thing or two about Plessey management (my first software job). The fact that the company no longer exists gives you a clue.
Psion is always the classic example of what could have been and poor management in Britain. The industrial problems we have are equally caused by short termist management interested in nothing but their bonus as well as inflexible unions. The latter problem is going away as the workforce has privatised massively over the last 30 years, but poor management is something that won't go away until the education system is fixed or foreign managers/owners come and do the job like JLR.
Dan Hannan If you think I'm overdoing these pro-EU scare stories, by the way, listen to Enda Kenny: https://t.co/Z7JZpGW6vd
Britain leaving the European Union could see the Troubles start again in Northern Ireland, Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny has said.
Speaking at the CBI conference, Mr Kenny said that the European Union had been an “important, perhaps underestimated, enabler of peace in Northern Ireland”.
Serious question, but what expertise / knowledge does Dan Hannan have regarding Ireland / N. Ireland? Is there not the slightest chance that the Irish PM might know a bit more about the situation than an MEP from the south of England?
Comments
My husband says that not many coding jobs ever come up at his place, but when they do, the company struggles to recruit. There simply don't seem to be enough people in the UK with the right skill sets.
All the best. Px
On F1: I think the Mercedes stopped at the end of the pit lane, which suggests it's not a fuel issue (unless they filled it with diesel). The halo does look bloody awful. I'm also concerned that if a situation such as Massa 2009 at Hungary occurs (heavy spring from a car behind hits the driver, or halo, in this theoretical case) the halo might break, and that could actually be worse for the driver.
The sad point for our economy is that the boring machines themselves came from Germany.
The other sad fact is that successive mayors have encouraged cycling without doing much to make the road network suitable for it. London's own buses however are also pretty deadly to cyclists.
Neil is the best interviewer out there.
Memory loss is a function of the wisdom of great maturity and as such being the sites eldest of Elder Statesman I can tell you I haven't the faintest clue why I started this comment ....
That's put paid to lunch....
You shouldn't go round slapping your todger on a crocodile's face.
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/strengthening-the-incentive-to-save-a-consultation-on-pensions-tax-relief
The restriction of tax relief for pension contributions is a valid point for discussion.
One proposal for instance is to offer no tax relief on the contributions but make pensions themselves tax free.
There is some logic to this not least I think because the govt have liberalised the rules about how you use a pensions lump sum. But there will be different opinions.
The govt's published purpose is to encourage pension contributions. The govt is grasping the nettle ignored by Labour but I do not expect self serving leavers to give them any credit.
Member of the public slagging off Ozzy
I have since used some people in Estonia on another project and had totally the opposite experience.
IIRC Newsnight was around 100k.
In love with the fact that in 1585 Francis Walsingham drew up a document titled 'A Plot for the Annoying of the King of Spain'
Mike wearing tan shoes with a dark suit .... worrying !!
Cynicism aside, and back to anecdote. When I was recruiting programmers a decade or so back, a lot of the new graduates could not program *even* in the languages they claimed. Is this because -- expanding your list -- universities are now trying to teach so many languages that they end up with students who can write "hello, world" but not much else in 37 different tongues?
I'm not very good at learning human languages, but computer languages were easy.
You need a structured/logical/hierarchical thinking for software: particularly for the design and bug-finding where all the hard stuff is.
I see SpaceX are still having trouble getting it up.
Guy barges into a shoe shop: "Get me a pair of crocodile leather shoes - and make it snappy".
I suppose for companies like Rolls Royce Aero or BAe it might be different
Whilst being a software engineer means you can often fix simple problems, it's a world apart from 'proper' IT, where people design networks, image PCs and fix things on a daily basis.
In summary:
(Computer programming < software engineering) != computer science != IT
They're very different disciplines nowadays, albeit with some commonality.
(The idea is to raise the tone today, yes?)
A counter argument to all this is that industry doesn't know enough computer science. For example, ideas about formal proving of software. It's more hack and run.
I vaguely remember that from somewhere also, but never been convinced of it.
Latin is more logical than other languages, but probably just a consequence of being a dead one.
We'll know for sure later in month.
I agree that management can be a problem. A short while after I started at Acorn, I was in early one morning making coffee in the kitchen. The MD walked in and we started chatting. He asked me what I was working on, and I told him.
I expected to be told that the project was really good, that we were working really hard and it was all going to be great. Basically, a pep talk from a boss to a very junior engineer. Instead, he more or less ignored my answer and said something like: "Well, I'm only here until I get my pension." There was no enthusiasm, no acknowledgement of the great stuff the company was doing, or could do.
It was utterly demoralising, especially as we were doing some very interesting (and potentially very profitable) stuff at the time. Some of which he later canned, and others his successor.
His successor was very different, and a much more (ahem) fiscally minded individual. For his own benefit, if not the company's...
If only he'd put it on Roger's tip for Ex Machina.....he'd be £10m better off.
But equally with language - on the one hand you have a Shakespeare but on the other you have a McGonagall.
What do you mainly gamble on for a living ?
(As for those of you who have read my posts in the past and thought: "That Josias Jessop needs his head checking"? well, you were right, if a little premature.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35724308
(runs for cover)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35722324
And their recommendations:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a-smart-power-revolution-could-save-consumers-8-billion-a-year-adonis
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6977279/Corbyn-calls-for-prostitution-to-be-decriminalised.html
My darling Eagles: what would I do without you?
PS Playing the innocent is not the same as being the innocent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-gaddie/the-wildcatters-losers-po_b_9376092.html
Puerto Rico: No tenemos ningún dato buenas, pero hay un montón de veteranos en Puerto Rico, por lo que estamos apostando por Donald Trump. Los puertorriqueños no votan para los cubanos.
WILDCATTERS' LOSERS (Republican Caucus): Rafael y Marco.
Kansas: With all due respect to Thomas Frank, what's not the matter with Kansas these days? The Jayhawks are running their government on Groupon and deposit bottles, so Barack Obama's ancestral homeland cancelled the primary in favor of caucuses, or a Mad Max car rally depending on gas prices. Even though friends don't let friends forecast caucuses, we're venturing out into the deep unknown with no data and no sense of what's going on up there in Oz.
WILDCATTERS' LOSER (Democratic Caucus): The Witch
WILDCATTERS' LOSER (Republican Caucus): The Tin Man
If you think I'm overdoing these pro-EU scare stories, by the way, listen to Enda Kenny: https://t.co/Z7JZpGW6vd
And Marconi disappeared, plus Ferranti and many others.
Serious question, but what expertise / knowledge does Dan Hannan have regarding Ireland / N. Ireland? Is there not the slightest chance that the Irish PM might know a bit more about the situation than an MEP from the south of England?
House of Commons
The #EuropeanParliament Elections Bill was withdrawn at the end of its Second Reading debate. The Bill can go no further.