Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
So Cameron confirms 23rd June will be referendum day and warns EU exit would threaten our economic and national security. Now looks like virtually all the Cabinet will be joining him in the Remain campaign, including Sajid Javid with Gove, IDS and Villiers the only likely Leavers. What Boris does remains to be seen
Suzanne Evans @SuzanneEvans1 3m3 minutes ago So this is it. 23rd June. This day will make Britain if we #VoteLeave. If we don't, the EU will break us.
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Lost causes are always more romantic, but it's usually better to be at the table than impotently harping on from the sidelines.
I'm arguing myself into remain...
As the Klingons said, better to die on our feet than live on our knees
So Cameron confirms 23rd June will be referendum day and warns EU exit would threaten our economic and national security. Now looks like virtually all the Cabinet will be joining him in the Remain campaign, including Sajid Javid with Gove, IDS and Villiers the only likely Leavers. What Boris does remains to be seen
So Cameron confirms 23rd June will be referendum day and warns EU exit would threaten our economic and national security. Now looks like virtually all the Cabinet will be joining him in the Remain campaign, including Sajid Javid with Gove, IDS and Villiers the only likely Leavers. What Boris does remains to be seen
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
REMAIN will win, but the activists and members will have their revenge. I thought it would be messy after REMAIN won, now I think it will be bloody. Real sense of anger and betrayal.
I do kinda feel that Boris is the only hope for LEAVE. Yes it's a ridiculous over-reaction blah blah, but it's what I feel.
But with their ridiculous Galloway stunt LEAVE has made it almost impossible for him to join them, and he was clearly heading towards LEAVE up until last night
Boo.
Be brave, dear piglet.
This referendum is revealing the true nature of those that rule us like nothing for decades. The mask has not so much slipped as crashed to the floor.
The land reverberates with the sound of dropping jaws.
What the outcome of this will be is totally unknown, still.
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Lost causes are always more romantic, but it's usually better to be at the table than impotently harping on from the sidelines.
I'm arguing myself into remain...
Don't. It's not a lost cause, and this deal is meaningless. Nothing fundamental has changed.
It's time for a new european relationship for the UK.
I haven't. I saw some Vote Leave people on my way to Sainsbury's; I will be signing up and campaigning with them from next week.
Anybody who whinges about the EU on here, but doesn't have the guts or will to campaign to leave in some shape or form is contemptible.
So what if victory is uncertain or even unlikely. Let slip the dogs of war!
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Politician acts like politician. Infuriating.
Cameron's legacy may well take a battering in time over all this - certainly I think those voices about how he should change his mind and run again in 2020 will not be cropping up much anymore - but him presenting a crap deal as a good one, and everything else he's accused of, I don't know why it surprises people. Personally I quite like Cameron as a PM, and I regret that he's on the opposite side to me on this one, but given the weakness of his position and statements, I'd be more angry at those unable to convince the rest of the country of that than Cameron himself.
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
Er no. The narrative will be that he sold out the country. All the more as the EU continues to fester and fail. He will be the man who chained us to a rock and pushed us off the cliff.
David Cameron: UK better off in reformed Europe Posted at 12:23
Mr Cameron says he "does not love Brussels" he "loves Britain" and that task of reforming the EU has not ended.
He said the question in the referendum is whether UK would be better in a reformed Europe or "out on our own".
I love brussels (and Broccoli and Cauliflowers) as it generates a load of shyte (which is good): And I care not for "Britain" per-se as England is my heart. That does not mean that I "hate" Europeans (as I am married to a Serb [or do the elite follow Roman-tradition and consider Slavs "Asian"]); nor consider leaving the 'EU' (a-pro-pos Al-Beeb Breakfast News) means not being 'European'. [Not least in a multi-culti sense.]
May was always a frigid choice: No Tory would vote for here illiberalism. Saj will still likely get my vote: Sadly the 'Taqiyya' may still be strong in his soul....
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Lost causes are always more romantic, but it's usually better to be at the table than impotently harping on from the sidelines.
I'm arguing myself into remain...
Don't. It's not a lost cause, and this deal is meaningless. Nothing fundamental has changed.
It's time for a new european relationship for the UK.
I haven't. I saw some Vote Leave people on my way to Sainsbury's; I will be signing up and campaigning with them from next week.
Anybody who whinges about the EU on here, but doesn't have the guts or will to campaign to leave in some shape or form is contemptible.
So what if victory is uncertain or even unlikely. Let slip the dogs of war!
When the official leave campaign is designated, I'll be writing a cheque.
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
No! He won two referendums each of which basically means no change to status quo. Two rods that he made for his own back. With a very small majority and a coalition government, he didn't do much. And the historical footnote, AV He will be like Macmillan - better than the alternative at the time but wasteful of power
One point worth noting about Corbyn's response to the EURef deal is that it is probably a good pointer to how he will run a GE campaign: his issues, his terms - whatever anyone else is talking about.
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
Er no. The narrative will be that he sold out the country. All the more as the EU continues to fester and fail. He will be the man who chained us to a rock and pushed us off the cliff.
'Now anything included in rulebook or even "other legislative measures" on finance can be pushed through by Eurozone. And it hits all the smaller non bank outfits that really achieve success for City.'
I agree - this looks like a very serious defeat for the government and the City.
.
I wonder how many people in the UK actually produce wealth? (Given that all labour is, in principle, replaceable by machines & computer programmes, the answer can only be entrepreneurs.) There are 600,000 business start-ups annually, of which 95% are failures.
Where have I misdirected myself?
The 95% of start ups that subsequently stop trading are not necessarily failures. There is a difference between "Cease to Trade" and "Failure".
Reasons to stop trading can be because the purpose for forming the company has come to a natural end; the owner(s) may have made their money and decided to move on; the owner(s) may have decided to retire; and so on.
Are there any published statistics on reasons to stop trading?
They show that over time about 10% of business are formed each year and about 10% of businesses cease to trade. However, the government figures don't give the reason for ceasing to trade.
Figures which I have seen of internal analyses by a major bank showed that only a small minority of "cease to trade" were backrupt businesses and a large number just never really took off, so just became dormant and shut down. A significant number were set up for a specific one-off purpose and then closed once achieved. Only a few ever grew to become sizeable companies but many owners did not want more than to be a life style business and averse to growth much beyond a one man band.
Start-ups are mostly not going to succeed long term and grow into significant businesses but this is not the same as saying they are failures.
Thank you very much for taking the trouble, David.
I absolutely take your point about "life style business" and indeed would question the mental and emotional health of anyone who actively wanted to manage managers. I am probably more comfortable than you with the thought that wealth is only created by individuals who are in one way or another disturbed. Did not Gladstone - and other Victorians - enter politics at least in part to make amends for the rapacity with which their family wealth had been amassed?
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
Er no. The narrative will be that he sold out the country. All the more as the EU continues to fester and fail. He will be the man who chained us to a rock and pushed us off the cliff.
So has he given up the power of a future PM to call an In/Out referendum?
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Lost causes are always more romantic, but it's usually better to be at the table than impotently harping on from the sidelines.
I'm arguing myself into remain...
Don't. It's not a lost cause, and this deal is meaningless. Nothing fundamental has changed.
It's time for a new european relationship for the UK.
I haven't. I saw some Vote Leave people on my way to Sainsbury's; I will be signing up and campaigning with them from next week.
Anybody who whinges about the EU on here, but doesn't have the guts or will to campaign to leave in some shape or form is contemptible.
So what if victory is uncertain or even unlikely. Let slip the dogs of war!
I have spent the last 30 years plus campaigning against the EU. I have worked (unpaid I hasten to add) as a researcher for most of the anti-EU groups from the referendum party, through UKIP and many other smaller groups and individuals. I have shelves filled with papers, articles and legal rulings. I must be one of the few people in the country that has actual hard copies of EU treaties.
I must be mad.
I have spent more than half my life fighting this because I believe in a small state and the rights of individuals and at the moment I feel completely helpless because once again the politicians have proved to be lying scumbags.
Owen Jones @OwenJones84 3m3 minutes ago Vote In, then build a campaign across the Continent to create a democratic Europe run for working people. My two cents.
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
No! He won two referendums each of which basically means no change to status quo. Two rods that he made for his own back. With a very small majority and a coalition government, he didn't do much. And the historical footnote, AV He will be like Macmillan - better than the alternative at the time but wasteful of power
Owen Jones @OwenJones84 3m3 minutes ago Vote In, then build a campaign across the Continent to create a democratic Europe run for working people. My two cents.
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Lost causes are always more romantic, but it's usually better to be at the table than impotently harping on from the sidelines.
I'm arguing myself into remain...
Don't. It's not a lost cause, and this deal is meaningless. Nothing fundamental has changed.
It's time for a new european relationship for the UK.
I haven't. I saw some Vote Leave people on my way to Sainsbury's; I will be signing up and campaigning with them from next week.
Anybody who whinges about the EU on here, but doesn't have the guts or will to campaign to leave in some shape or form is contemptible.
So what if victory is uncertain or even unlikely. Let slip the dogs of war!
I have spent the last 30 years plus campaigning against the EU. I have worked (unpaid I hasten to add) as a researcher for most of the anti-EU groups from the referendum party, through UKIP and many other smaller groups and individuals. I have shelves filled with papers, articles and legal rulings. I must be one of the few people in the country that has actual hard copies of EU treaties.
I must be mad.
I have spent more than half my life fighting this because I believe in a small state and the rights of individuals and at the moment I feel completely helpless because once again the politicians have proved to be lying scumbags.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak 2m2 minutes ago Confirmed Grayling is out
Another Tory that the public have an instant dislike to. Leave need Boris. But he won't will he.
Boris will back Remain tomorrow.
He will - his delay is just a part of the pantomime.
Ref back to the initial piece and the 1995 comparison. Portillo lost a lot of credit in that election, both with both the right who felt he lacked the conviction of his stated beliefs, and with the mainstream who saw him consider jumping.
Boris' dither has fluffed his chances in exactly the same way. There was always a question mark over his reliability and the extent to which he was a public show shielding a private ambition but this last week has just confirmed everything all those who weren't sure about him feared. Unlike the cabinet, he *could* have come out as Leave before today. Not only did he not do that, he's been jumped in that field by Gove.
Boris might say that he wants to stay in the EU but we should vote LEAVE and start negotiations with the EU about serious reforms (led by Boris Johnson of course).
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
Er no. The narrative will be that he sold out the country. All the more as the EU continues to fester and fail. He will be the man who chained us to a rock and pushed us off the cliff.
And that would be unfair. Any number of people will be saying, quite rightly, that the deal is crap. If the public ignore that because the PM said otherwise that is their fault. It's understandable for people to consider the views of those they respect and trust, those in authority, but if we do lose this one, we cannot pretend people were not informed of the consequences and pin it all on the salesman. I'm not a fan of the concept of the buyer needing to beware, but on such crucial issues we should all put more effort in that just going with what leading figures think.
But if things continue to get worse in Europe, as I expect, then yes such a narrative likely will form, but although he would deserve a level of significant blame for how he presented the deal, I can see right now I'll get bloody sick of the self righteous and over the top narratives we'll get.
Cameron going STRAIGHT IN on Project Fear with economic and physical security.
Fux sake.
Infuriating.
Are you surprised, he used it during the Indyref and the general election, it works for him
This is the last time it will work for him. He's going. His EU legacy will turn to dust in about three years, and Tories will learn to loathe him.
He has just ensured that his legacy will be to be regarded in the same sordid, dishonest way as Heath. Win or lose he will now go down as one of the worst PMs in history.
On the assumption he wins he will be widely seen as one of the most successful Prime Ministers in modern times
Er no. The narrative will be that he sold out the country. All the more as the EU continues to fester and fail. He will be the man who chained us to a rock and pushed us off the cliff.
So has he given up the power of a future PM to call an In/Out referendum?
Whether we get another referendum or not won't matter as far as his legacy is concerned. It will just be someone else sorting out the mess he left behind.
Over the past few days I have been told that I am a swivel-eyed, extreme right-wing loon, that I am poorly educated, that I am thick, an idiot and a fruitcake. What have I done to deserve such abuse? I have, after many years of sober reflection, decided that the UK would be better off in every sense of the term if it were to leave the EU.
Is this is likely to on for another three or four months? Perhaps some posters might want to consider that someone who has a different opinion from their own might just be a reasonable, intelligent person who happens to disagree with them on a particular matter.
Owen Jones @OwenJones84 3m3 minutes ago Vote In, then build a campaign across the Continent to create a democratic Europe run for working people. My two cents.
Power to the People and other Cliché – Owen Jones obviously thinks ‘Citizen Smith’ was a political documentary, rather than the piss take it was.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak 2m2 minutes ago Confirmed Grayling is out
Another Tory that the public have an instant dislike to. Leave need Boris. But he won't will he.
Boris will back Remain tomorrow.
He will - his delay is just a part of the pantomime.
Ref back to the initial piece and the 1995 comparison. Portillo lost a lot of credit in that election, both with both the right who felt he lacked the conviction of his stated beliefs, and with the mainstream who saw him consider jumping.
Boris' dither has fluffed his chances in exactly the same way. There was always a question mark over his reliability and the extent to which he was a public show shielding a private ambition but this last week has just confirmed everything all those who weren't sure about him feared. Unlike the cabinet, he *could* have come out as Leave before today. Not only did he not do that, he's been jumped in that field by Gove.
So Cameron confirms 23rd June will be referendum day and warns EU exit would threaten our economic and national security. Now looks like virtually all the Cabinet will be joining him in the Remain campaign, including Sajid Javid with Gove, IDS and Villiers the only likely Leavers. What Boris does remains to be seen
And Grayling
Sky News now showing IDS, Theresa Villiers, John Whittingdale, Priti Patel and Michael Gove all at a Leave meeting surrounded by Leave activists with 'Vote Leave' placards and holding a banner saying 'Let's take back control - vote Leave' they are the Cabinet Ministers for Leave, all the rest will be behind Cameron and back Remain
Over the past few days I have been told that I am a swivel-eyed, extreme right-wing loon, that I am poorly educated, that I am thick, an idiot and a fruitcake. What have I done to deserve such abuse? I have, after many years of sober reflection, decided that the UK would be better off in every sense of the term if it were to leave the EU.
Is this is likely to on for another three or four months? Perhaps some posters might want to consider that someone who has a different opinion from their own might just be a reasonable, intelligent person who happens to disagree with them on a particular matter.
Over the past few days I have been told that I am a swivel-eyed, extreme right-wing loon, that I am poorly educated, that I am thick, an idiot and a fruitcake. What have I done to deserve such abuse? I have, after many years of sober reflection, decided that the UK would be better off in every sense of the term if it were to leave the EU.
Is this is likely to on for another three or four months? Perhaps some posters might want to consider that someone who has a different opinion from their own might just be a reasonable, intelligent person who happens to disagree with them on a particular matter.
I'm going to be putting down some new PB rules.
During the ref campaign, and afterwards, Everyone has to be nice to everyone else, with polite discourse and no insults (unless they are really funny)
If people don't adhere to the rules, I'll do daily threads on Scottish Independence and AV
Andrea Leadsom "Now that 18 of the 28 member states have a shared currency, it is inevitable that they will move closer to full political and fiscal union. They need to align their banking and taxation systems, and to follow through with the European Public Prosecutor and unified policing that naturally follow the Schengen Agreement on open borders. "
As the EU moves inevitably towards a 'United States' of Europe, the UK will increasingly go from a 'senior partner ' with influence to a country whose views count for little in Brussels and yet whose parliament is increasingly subservient to EU legislation. I wholeheartedly believe in the primacy of our Westminster Parliament and we should not allow the continued erosion of our national sovereignty."
"I am a parent. The question I ask myself is "what do I want for my children's future?" The UK is the world 's fifth biggest economy, the best performing in Western Europe, and there is the expectation that we will soon leapfrog over Germany and Japan to climb the global league tables even further. We are an amazing island nation filled with inventiveness and creativity ..."
Boris is a total cock. Never has personal ambition been more poirly hidden. Whatever he decides now will be viewed solely through that prism. He's just another posh boy who thinks he should be PM because he'd be rather good at it. I don't like Gove politically, but he has convictions and he has courage. He's a better man than Boris.
Sky reporting John Whittingdale has committed to remain
I think it is safe to conclude that the Tories are no longer a party for Eurosceptics. Tory MPs position on the EU is very very different to that of the members.
REMAIN will win, but the activists and members will have their revenge. I thought it would be messy after REMAIN won, now I think it will be bloody. Real sense of anger and betrayal.
The real winners will be UKIP in the short term
Just look at the Dads army shambles the current UKIP Leadership have turned Grassroots out into.
Boris is a total cock. Never has personal ambition been more poirly hidden. Whatever he decides now will be viewed solely through that prism. He's just another posh boy who thinks he should be PM because he'd be rather good at it. I don't like Gove politically, but he has convictions and he has courage. He's a better man than Boris.
Andrea Leadsom "Now that 18 of the 28 member states have a shared currency, it is inevitable that they will move closer to full political and fiscal union. They need to align their banking and taxation systems, and to follow through with the European Public Prosecutor and unified policing that naturally follow the Schengen Agreement on open borders. "
As the EU moves inevitably towards a 'United States' of Europe, the UK will increasingly go from a 'senior partner ' with influence to a country whose views count for little in Brussels and yet whose parliament is increasingly subservient to EU legislation. I wholeheartedly believe in the primacy of our Westminster Parliament and we should not allow the continued erosion of our national sovereignty."
"I am a parent. The question I ask myself is "what do I want for my children's future?" The UK is the world 's fifth biggest economy, the best performing in Western Europe, and there is the expectation that we will soon leapfrog over Germany and Japan to climb the global league tables even further. We are an amazing island nation filled with inventiveness and creativity ..."
She writes an excellent letter. I'll preserve it for future reference, to combat the dreary 'back to the '50s' or 'harking back to the days of Empire' nonsense the Europhiles trot out.
It's pretty clear lots of Tory MPs were just making eurosceptic noises and wanted a deal that could show enough difference to justify changing their position. When deal came along that was actually just fiddling round the edges, they just thought screw it, I supported the EU as it was anyway.
Conservative members have a right to be angry, in my opinion.
They must have felt the same way when they got their new copy of the English dictionary, and it turned out the word "gullible" was still in it.
Looking back over the last forty years, we've had successive governments led by people who have happily embraced more political union. I think it's now inevitable.
Once a veto is given up, it never comes back. Even a pretend veto.
Leadsom's talking as if Schengen isn't a dead letter, or as if the Germans don't resent any scintilla of economic decision-making ceded to the Union. The bogeyman of ever-closer union just ain't credible
Andrea Leadsom "Now that 18 of the 28 member states have a shared currency, it is inevitable that they will move closer to full political and fiscal union. They need to align their banking and taxation systems, and to follow through with the European Public Prosecutor and unified policing that naturally follow the Schengen Agreement on open borders. "
As the EU moves inevitably towards a 'United States' of Europe, the UK will increasingly go from a 'senior partner ' with influence to a country whose views count for little in Brussels and yet whose parliament is increasingly subservient to EU legislation. I wholeheartedly believe in the primacy of our Westminster Parliament and we should not allow the continued erosion of our national sovereignty."
"I am a parent. The question I ask myself is "what do I want for my children's future?" The UK is the world 's fifth biggest economy, the best performing in Western Europe, and there is the expectation that we will soon leapfrog over Germany and Japan to climb the global league tables even further. We are an amazing island nation filled with inventiveness and creativity ..."
She writes an excellent letter. I'll preserve it for future reference, to combat the dreary 'back to the '50s' or 'harking back to the days of Empire' nonsense the Europhiles trot out.
That we will overtake Germany and Japan is complete hogwash. Only quote it if you want to sound ridiculous
Boris is a total cock. Never has personal ambition been more poirly hidden. Whatever he decides now will be viewed solely through that prism. He's just another posh boy who thinks he should be PM because he'd be rather good at it. I don't like Gove politically, but he has convictions and he has courage. He's a better man than Boris.
Hard to disagree with that.
Well said Mr Observer, as ever.
And here's the good thing. We now know what Boris is beyond a doubt. And that is why today is a good day, whether you are IN or OUT. The referendum is forcing our leaders to reveal themselves.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 11m11 minutes ago Just seen photo tweeted by Vote Leave. Looks like they're campaigning to save the bus pass. They really haven't got a clue.
I don't see how this is at all surprising? It is the natural place for a lot of Conservative voters who want to leave. Why feel the need to be angry at GO for catering for people that want to leave but aren't Cameron inclined? Or rather, intensly dislike Camerons Conservatives. It is a broad church and it is unnecessary to try and make it full of similar people
Boris is a total cock. Never has personal ambition been more poirly hidden. Whatever he decides now will be viewed solely through that prism. He's just another posh boy who thinks he should be PM because he'd be rather good at it. I don't like Gove politically, but he has convictions and he has courage. He's a better man than Boris.
"The ability to choose who governs us, and the freedom to change laws we do not like, were secured for us in the past by radicals and liberals who took power from unaccountable elites and placed it in the hands of the people. As a result of their efforts we developed, and exported to nations like the US, India, Canada and Australia a system of democratic self-government which has brought prosperity and peace to millions.
Our democracy stood the test of time. We showed the world what a free people could achieve if they were allowed to govern themselves."
My starting point is simple. I believe that the decisions which govern all our lives, the laws we must all obey and the taxes we must all pay should be decided by people we choose and who we can throw out if we want change. If power is to be used wisely, if we are to avoid corruption and complacency in high office, then the public must have the right to change laws and Governments at election time.
But our membership of the European Union prevents us being able to change huge swathes of law and stops us being able to choose who makes critical decisions which affect all our lives. Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country. I believe that needs to change. And I believe that both the lessons of our past and the shape of the future make the case for change compelling.
Comments
Suzanne Evans @SuzanneEvans1 3m3 minutes ago
So this is it. 23rd June. This day will make Britain if we #VoteLeave. If we don't, the EU will break us.
Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan confirming they are Remainers.
Ditto Justine Greening.
Andrea Leadsom declares for LEAVE
http://www.andrealeadsom.com/working-for-you/andrea's-blog/my-vote-on-the-eu-referendum/827
This referendum is revealing the true nature of those that rule us like nothing for decades. The mask has not so much slipped as crashed to the floor.
The land reverberates with the sound of dropping jaws.
What the outcome of this will be is totally unknown, still.
I haven't. I saw some Vote Leave people on my way to Sainsbury's; I will be signing up and campaigning with them from next week.
Anybody who whinges about the EU on here, but doesn't have the guts or will to campaign to leave in some shape or form is contemptible.
So what if victory is uncertain or even unlikely. Let slip the dogs of war!
Cameron's legacy may well take a battering in time over all this - certainly I think those voices about how he should change his mind and run again in 2020 will not be cropping up much anymore - but him presenting a crap deal as a good one, and everything else he's accused of, I don't know why it surprises people. Personally I quite like Cameron as a PM, and I regret that he's on the opposite side to me on this one, but given the weakness of his position and statements, I'd be more angry at those unable to convince the rest of the country of that than Cameron himself.
May was always a frigid choice: No Tory would vote for here illiberalism. Saj will still likely get my vote: Sadly the 'Taqiyya' may still be strong in his soul....
:better-off-out:
Its what people have been predicting for months.
"Im in the van listening to Cameron talking about the referendum... he wants us to leave doesn't he?"
U18s
With a very small majority and a coalition government, he didn't do much. And the historical footnote, AV
He will be like Macmillan - better than the alternative at the time but wasteful of power
I absolutely take your point about "life style business" and indeed would question the mental and emotional health of anyone who actively wanted to manage managers. I am probably more comfortable than you with the thought that wealth is only created by individuals who are in one way or another disturbed. Did not Gladstone - and other Victorians - enter politics at least in part to make amends for the rapacity with which their family wealth had been amassed?
I must be mad.
I have spent more than half my life fighting this because I believe in a small state and the rights of individuals and at the moment I feel completely helpless because once again the politicians have proved to be lying scumbags.
Vote In, then build a campaign across the Continent to create a democratic Europe run for working people. My two cents.
'You made us change our holiday plans because of the referendum didn't you?"
Uh oh, I'm in trouble.
entrepreneur is just "middleman" literally, right?
i'd say (for example) stock trading algorithms/computer systems are replacing that function
Boris' dither has fluffed his chances in exactly the same way. There was always a question mark over his reliability and the extent to which he was a public show shielding a private ambition but this last week has just confirmed everything all those who weren't sure about him feared. Unlike the cabinet, he *could* have come out as Leave before today. Not only did he not do that, he's been jumped in that field by Gove.
Game over for Boris.
But if things continue to get worse in Europe, as I expect, then yes such a narrative likely will form, but although he would deserve a level of significant blame for how he presented the deal, I can see right now I'll get bloody sick of the self righteous and over the top narratives we'll get.
A lectern will shortly be placed outside Auchentennach Castle .....
Worth reading a letter.
http://www.andrealeadsom.com/downloads/eurefletter.pdf
Lady has cojones. She told Osborne to eff off a few years ago.
Just tried to back Rubio @ 9 for £100/pt on SPIN's 50:25 potus index.
Was offered a fiver.
Anyway, I didn't take it.
So long as that price holds, buying on SPIN's market is the best way to back him.
It's equivalent to about 3/1 for the nomination.
Is this is likely to on for another three or four months? Perhaps some posters might want to consider that someone who has a different opinion from their own might just be a reasonable, intelligent person who happens to disagree with them on a particular matter.
Sighs
During the ref campaign, and afterwards, Everyone has to be nice to everyone else, with polite discourse and no insults (unless they are really funny)
If people don't adhere to the rules, I'll do daily threads on Scottish Independence and AV
As the EU moves inevitably towards a 'United States' of Europe, the UK will increasingly go from a 'senior partner ' with influence to a country whose views count for little in Brussels and yet whose parliament is increasingly subservient to EU legislation. I wholeheartedly believe in the primacy of our Westminster Parliament and we should not allow the continued erosion of our national sovereignty."
"I am a parent. The question I ask myself is "what do I want for my children's future?" The UK is the world 's fifth biggest economy, the best performing in Western Europe, and there is the expectation that we will soon leapfrog over Germany and Japan to climb the global league tables even further. We are an amazing island nation filled with inventiveness and creativity ..."
It is one terror outrage or European bank failure away from being utterly discredited.
cheers me up no end.
I'll be joining Vote Leave.
I'll be ignoring Leave.EU and GO>!
Looking back over the last forty years, we've had successive governments led by people who have happily embraced more political union. I think it's now inevitable.
Once a veto is given up, it never comes back. Even a pretend veto.
Honest politician? Almost an oxymoron.
Well worth reading
http://order-order.com/2016/02/20/read-gove-statement-in-full/
http://order-order.com/2016/02/20/read-gove-statement-in-full/
And here's the good thing. We now know what Boris is beyond a doubt. And that is why today is a good day, whether you are IN or OUT. The referendum is forcing our leaders to reveal themselves.
Just seen photo tweeted by Vote Leave. Looks like they're campaigning to save the bus pass. They really haven't got a clue.
Tumbleweed, projection perchance?
:nuff-zed:
"The ability to choose who governs us, and the freedom to change laws we do not like, were secured for us in the past by radicals and liberals who took power from unaccountable elites and placed it in the hands of the people. As a result of their efforts we developed, and exported to nations like the US, India, Canada and Australia a system of democratic self-government which has brought prosperity and peace to millions.
Our democracy stood the test of time. We showed the world what a free people could achieve if they were allowed to govern themselves."