They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
Stupid post.
Factual though.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
That is horrible, you have my utmost sympathy.
I had a torn retina last summer which was sorted before it detached completely, but I have days when I can hardly see through the floaters. Sincerely hope it is not as bad as it seems for you.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
O/T: I have just been watching World War Three on iplayer. No, not the real thing but a drama/documentary about a hypothetical. The thesis is that Russia is interfering in the Baltic states along the lines of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine. Various real people ( Cristopher Mayer, Lord West, Lord Arbuthnot, etc. play roles as members of the committee which makes the decisions aboiut British response. To cut to the chase - Russia launches its ICBMs and Britain decides to do nothing - because deterrence has failed. Says everything really.
The main campaign group seeking to take Britain out of the EU is in danger of losing the referendum unless “damaging and unnecessary” bickering is stopped, according to a leaked internal email.
In a sign of the bitter infighting in the Vote Leave group, one of its main supporters has accused campaign director Dominic Cummings of undermining the organisation by generating “ill feeling” among workers.
John Mills, the multi-millionaire Labour donor who is the group’s deputy chairman, said that the feuding has prompted the MP Kate Hoey to stand down as co-chair of the Labour Leave group. Hoey, who is now supporting the separate Grassroots Out (GO), has agreed not to say anything publicly about the split.
Dominic Cummings does seem to be a bit of a problem.
I can't believe the level of childish infighting and petulance on the crucial vote for the whole nation's future; one they've been waiting for decades.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
O/T: I have just been watching World War Three on iplayer. No, not the real thing but a drama/documentary about a hypothetical. The thesis is that Russia is interfering in the Baltic states along the lines of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine. Various real people ( Cristopher Mayer, Lord West, Lord Arbuthnot, etc. play roles as members of the committee which makes the decisions aboiut British response. To cut to the chase - Russia launches its ICBMs and Britain decides to do nothing - because deterrence has failed. Says everything really.
Who do they launch their ICBMs at? If it is at us, surely the sub commanders rely on the PMs letter, not the decision of any committee.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Actually I think TSE is at least half right. Cameron's current con is certainly on a par with Heath's sell-out and Major's betrayal over Maastricht. Most of the worst surrenders over Europe have occurred under 'Conservative' governments.
I had thought the party had learned its lesson, but it seems the leadership and I'm afraid most of the MPs just can't be trusted.
I'm a remainer and didn't take the alleged 'renegotiation' seriously at all, but I'm bitterly disappointed with the way it has been handled.
The EU became a toxic issue in British politics because of the sense of conspiracy and deceit towards our own governing class. The referendum ought to have been an opportunity to put the issue to bed by asking the people to make a genuine choice about which future for the country they would like to chose.
Instead Cameron seems to have guaranteed that if the vote is to remain, it will only fuel the bitterness even more and we'll never be fully reconciled to our position within the EU.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.
Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.
Access to a single market
Social protections of workers
Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe
A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage
The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.
Only 3 out of those 5 may be true though and out of those 3 two of them are debatable.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
So, as I was saying earlier, Leave already on the 45% Yes got in indyref before the campaign proper! Remain will still win in my view but by a narrow margin
O/T: I have just been watching World War Three on iplayer. No, not the real thing but a drama/documentary about a hypothetical. The thesis is that Russia is interfering in the Baltic states along the lines of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine. Various real people ( Cristopher Mayer, Lord West, Lord Arbuthnot, etc. play roles as members of the committee which makes the decisions aboiut British response. To cut to the chase - Russia launches its ICBMs and Britain decides to do nothing - because deterrence has failed. Says everything really.
The Russian government commented on it that it was a reality show for paranoid military leaders who are trying to brainwash the British public in order to justify increasing their budgets. They have a point.
BoJo is calling for two fecking great road tunnels under London. "Tens of billions £££". So the rest of the country is expected to sub London yet again.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
O/T: I have just been watching World War Three on iplayer. No, not the real thing but a drama/documentary about a hypothetical. The thesis is that Russia is interfering in the Baltic states along the lines of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine. Various real people ( Cristopher Mayer, Lord West, Lord Arbuthnot, etc. play roles as members of the committee which makes the decisions aboiut British response. To cut to the chase - Russia launches its ICBMs and Britain decides to do nothing - because deterrence has failed. Says everything really.
Who do they launch their ICBMs at? If it is at us, surely the sub commanders rely on the PMs letter, not the decision of any committee.
There was escalation. Nato responded to a Russian 'aid' convoy to ethnic Russians in Latvia by sending in a task force to take them out; the Russians responded by launching a tactical nuclear weapon at HMS Ocean in the Baltic, and then the USA retaliate with a tactical attack against a Russian target. You see the picture?
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
Cameron ought to delay the referendum until the end of 2017 because by then the EU as we know it may not exist and there won't have to be one.
Actually I think TSE is at least half right. Cameron's current con is certainly on a par with Heath's sell-out and Major's betrayal over Maastricht. Most of the worst surrenders over Europe have occurred under 'Conservative' governments.
I had thought the party had learned its lesson, but it seems the leadership and I'm afraid most of the MPs just can't be trusted.
I'm a remainer and didn't take the alleged 'renegotiation' seriously at all, but I'm bitterly disappointed with the way it has been handled.
The EU became a toxic issue in British politics because of the sense of conspiracy and deceit towards our own governing class. The referendum ought to have been an opportunity to put the issue to bed by asking the people to make a genuine choice about which future for the country they would like to chose.
Instead Cameron seems to have guaranteed that if the vote is to remain, it will only fuel the bitterness even more and we'll never be fully reconciled to our position within the EU.
Yes, the Tory party genuinely had (and still has) no appetite to tear itself apart over this, but Cameron is almost doing everything he can to ensure it will.
Shocking story on the front page of the Indy. £110 for a one word email, is that all? I know someone who billed two hours worth of time for a one word email.
David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
The leadership demands and expects absolute loyalty from Tory party members.
What on Earth is Cameron doing? Everyone could tell from a mile off the danger of a Euro split. But hes gone out of way to piss on eurosceptics in his party. Dodgy question, purdah nonsense, exagerrating what he brought back, gagging ministers, insulting associations.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
It could be this "renegotiation" has drawn attention to the detail......
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
A friend of mine at school used to boast about how his lawyer father would charge £30 for a five minute phone call. I don't know whether things have changed since then.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
You won't like this article much more either calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
THE NEW NORMAL PART 2: BREXIT In the Noughties, the time of Desperate Housewives and Nokia phones, Eurosceptic arguments revolved around alternatives that were fictional (nonexistent Commonwealth free trade areas), ludicrous (we can trade with Russia and China, countries that are neither close nor lawabiding) or touchingly childlike (Hannan's insistence that we should preferably trade with our friends, which is a proposition nobody over 8 should hold). They could be easily dismissed.
But since 2009/10 (when the size of Greece became apparent) and since 2011 (when immigration began to appear in the list of concerns), the argument has changed. It is easy to dismiss claims that the Euro will collapse (it stays in existence until the most powerful nations decide to leave) but claims that it is well run are difficult to hold with a straight face. Moving from comedy to tragedy, the human wave of immigrants is large and solutions are ramshackle, ad-hoc and ineffective. Blaming the EU for migration is a bit like blaming the dinosaurs for the meteorite, but this does not change the fact that the citizenry is concerned about the number and characteristics of the migrants and will vote Leave accordingly. The print media have latched onto this and are pushing it with all the class and subtlety for which Kelvin McKenzie and Rod Liddle are justly famed: it's not quite "if you want a ****** for a neighbour, vote Labour" but let's be honest, it's not far off.
Unless Remain develop a countermeasure to Leave's charge that EU membership implies mass migration into the UK - and since the charge has an element of truth, this will be difficult - then Leave will win, and win hard.
BoJo is calling for two fecking great road tunnels under London. "Tens of billions £££". So the rest of the country is expected to sub London yet again.
Well country is awash with all those oil revenues from Scotland apparently so why not?
Ah? Oil revenues...... Mmmm.....Ok I see your point.
A friend of mine at school used to boast about how his lawyer father would charge £30 for a five minute phone call. I don't know whether things have changed since then.
Happens all the time.
In practice you have to account for you time in 6 minute blocks, you call someone for a minute, they get billed for the full 6 minute block.
So if you're going to speak to a solicitor speak to them for over 5 mins to get your money's worth
BoJo is calling for two fecking great road tunnels under London. "Tens of billions £££". So the rest of the country is expected to sub London yet again.
Subsidies require money flowing from the rest of the country to London. Since the rest of the country gets money from London, the subsidies flow the other way.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
It could be this "renegotiation" has drawn attention to the detail......
I'm rapidly coming to the view that Cameron is in fact a crap politician who has merely been very lucky for several years. Even if I was a die-hard Europhile I'd feel angry at Cameron talking up there worthless renegotiation he has engaged in. He's going to have to pull the biggest rabbit ever from his hat to satisfy waverers now.
Time for Cameron to go back and get a much better deal.
If he wants to win.
The only way he does that is if he says he will back Leave.
And the other European leaders would just laugh at him - and tell him to fuck off.
I have been saying for months that his negotiation strategy was shite. It only worked if they thought from the start that he would recommend Leave if they didn't give the UK a material package. What he did was just shake-your-head-in wonder awful.
And then Osborne pops up looking like a pillock, saying how this deal will have reshaped Europe. The only thing that has been reshaped is his sphincter, with Europe's fist shoved up it.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
It could be this "renegotiation" has drawn attention to the detail......
I'm rapidly coming to the view that Cameron is in fact a crap politician who has merely been very lucky for several years. Even if I was a die-hard Europhile I'd feel angry at Cameron talking up there worthless renegotiation he has engaged in. He's going to have to pull the biggest rabbit ever from his hat to satisfy waverers now.
Surely if you were a rabid Europhile, you'd be gutted that he hadn't signed the UK up to the Euro
Factual though. I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight. Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight....Diabetes and MS isn't good for the eyes.
A friend of mine at school used to boast about how his lawyer father would charge £30 for a five minute phone call. I don't know whether things have changed since then.
Happens all the time.
In practice you have to account for you time in 6 minute blocks, you call someone for a minute, they get billed for the full 6 minute block.
So if you're going to speak to a solicitor speak to them for over 5 mins to get your money's worth
This whole we can't trade with Europe bollocks is absolubte bullshit. My employer is an exporter and our biggest project right now is based in Turkey, there really is no problem dealing with extra-EU countries.
Shocking story on the front page of the Indy. £110 for a one word email, is that all? I know someone who billed two hours worth of time for a one word email.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
Cameron ought to delay the referendum until the end of 2017 because by then the EU as we know it may not exist and there won't have to be one.
Good point. Can he possibly call a vote when some polls have him 10 points down? Suicidally risky.
He has the option of time. He will surely delay unless he gets much better polling, and soon.
He can go for the autumn, citing the Electoral Commission's advice. That's not really delay so much as the absence of rushing. I don't see how he can let it go until next year though. It would become a joke in itself.
That's a calamitous poll for REMAIN. The "deal" has been roundly rejected.
Cameron now has a real fight on his hands. Heh. No more than he deserves, thinking we'd swallow that bucket of crap.
You called the situation right again.
Was it Sean Fear the other day who said Cameron may have been better off just holding a referendum without any negotiations? It may have just drawn attention to the crap deal we have by being a member & our inability to do anything about it
Just one poll mind you
Cameron ought to delay the referendum until the end of 2017 because by then the EU as we know it may not exist and there won't have to be one.
Good point. Can he possibly call a vote when some polls have him 10 points down? Suicidally risky.
He has the option of time. He will surely delay unless he gets much better polling, and soon.
Shocking story on the front page of the Indy. £110 for a one word email, is that all? I know someone who billed two hours worth of time for a one word email.
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.
Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.
Access to a single market
Social protections of workers
Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe
A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage
The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.
Single Market - OK Social protection for workers - why can't we do that ourselves? Spreading of democracy and good governance - how long has Greece been in the EU? A feeling of solidarity and kinship - we are strong partners in NATO, willing to fight for them. Ability to live and work in 28 countries - mostly it seems most of 27 want to come here.
This whole we can't trade with Europe bollocks is absolubte bullshit. My employer is an exporter and our biggest project right now is based in Turkey, there really is no problem dealing with extra-EU countries.
Well, the UKIP Calypso says "We can trade with the world again / When Nigel is at Number 10" so presumably it's impossible right now.
O/T: I have just been watching World War Three on iplayer. No, not the real thing but a drama/documentary about a hypothetical. The thesis is that Russia is interfering in the Baltic states along the lines of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine. Various real people ( Cristopher Mayer, Lord West, Lord Arbuthnot, etc. play roles as members of the committee which makes the decisions aboiut British response. To cut to the chase - Russia launches its ICBMs and Britain decides to do nothing - because deterrence has failed. Says everything really.
Who do they launch their ICBMs at? If it is at us, surely the sub commanders rely on the PMs letter, not the decision of any committee.
There was escalation. Nato responded to a Russian 'aid' convoy to ethnic Russians in Latvia by sending in a task force to take them out; the Russians responded by launching a tactical nuclear weapon at HMS Ocean in the Baltic, and then the USA retaliate with a tactical attack against a Russian target. You see the picture?
Comments
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Sorry to hear that. Take care.
Seconded
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
That is horrible, you have my utmost sympathy.
I had a torn retina last summer which was sorted before it detached completely, but I have days when I can hardly see through the floaters. Sincerely hope it is not as bad as it seems for you.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Just so you know, it's an old wives tale that it causes blindness
We were all thinking it
(felt bad writing that, sorry TSE)
Diabetes and MS isn't good for the eyes.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Blimey. You'd have thought a phone call would be more appropriate in the circumstances. (You do, of course, have my sincere sympathies).
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Hopefully everything works out okay for you.
The EU became a toxic issue in British politics because of the sense of conspiracy and deceit towards our own governing class. The referendum ought to have been an opportunity to put the issue to bed by asking the people to make a genuine choice about which future for the country they would like to chose.
Instead Cameron seems to have guaranteed that if the vote is to remain, it will only fuel the bitterness even more and we'll never be fully reconciled to our position within the EU.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Damn it. Sorry man.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
I'm very sorry to hear that TSE. You have my full sympathies.
I really hope that's just a worst case being outlined for their own liability reasons and that you in fact make a full recovery.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Sorry to hear that - wish you all the best.
It should have Leave shouldn't aim to channel the spirit of Peter Griffiths in their campaign.
Except it read
It should have Leave shouldn't aim to channel the spirit of Peter Griffin in their campaign.
I'm sorry, I made a flippant joke. I apologise. I really hope it all works out OK for you.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/695376162332119041
Just one poll mind you
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Sorry to hear that, hope you can get any treatment you require!
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/695360901117906945
Time for Cameron to go back and get a much better deal.
If he wants to win.
Don't apologise, I like humour.
@JananGanesh: Absolute state of my timeline. If kids aren't allowed strong coffee, politicos shouldn't be allowed opinion polls.
Is he a sceptic? If so good on him!
What did I say about tribal politics!
To clarify that very good point more correctly
Labour signed Lisbon by having their leader Brown sneak through the back door when he thought no one was looking and the press had finally gone.
Unfortunately there were a handful still there.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ucvkEUPMUqE
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Sorry to hear that old chap. Best of luck with it all.
In the Noughties, the time of Desperate Housewives and Nokia phones, Eurosceptic arguments revolved around alternatives that were fictional (nonexistent Commonwealth free trade areas), ludicrous (we can trade with Russia and China, countries that are neither close nor lawabiding) or touchingly childlike (Hannan's insistence that we should preferably trade with our friends, which is a proposition nobody over 8 should hold). They could be easily dismissed.
But since 2009/10 (when the size of Greece became apparent) and since 2011 (when immigration began to appear in the list of concerns), the argument has changed. It is easy to dismiss claims that the Euro will collapse (it stays in existence until the most powerful nations decide to leave) but claims that it is well run are difficult to hold with a straight face. Moving from comedy to tragedy, the human wave of immigrants is large and solutions are ramshackle, ad-hoc and ineffective. Blaming the EU for migration is a bit like blaming the dinosaurs for the meteorite, but this does not change the fact that the citizenry is concerned about the number and characteristics of the migrants and will vote Leave accordingly. The print media have latched onto this and are pushing it with all the class and subtlety for which Kelvin McKenzie and Rod Liddle are justly famed: it's not quite "if you want a ****** for a neighbour, vote Labour" but let's be honest, it's not far off.
Unless Remain develop a countermeasure to Leave's charge that EU membership implies mass migration into the UK - and since the charge has an element of truth, this will be difficult - then Leave will win, and win hard.
See http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/917374/#Comment_917374
Ah? Oil revenues...... Mmmm.....Ok I see your point.
In practice you have to account for you time in 6 minute blocks, you call someone for a minute, they get billed for the full 6 minute block.
So if you're going to speak to a solicitor speak to them for over 5 mins to get your money's worth
And the other European leaders would just laugh at him - and tell him to fuck off.
I have been saying for months that his negotiation strategy was shite. It only worked if they thought from the start that he would recommend Leave if they didn't give the UK a material package. What he did was just shake-your-head-in wonder awful.
And then Osborne pops up looking like a pillock, saying how this deal will have reshaped Europe. The only thing that has been reshaped is his sphincter, with Europe's fist shoved up it.
February 2016: "Look at that Yougov opinion poll!!!!!!!!".
sssh it's OK if EU supporters use wartime analogies - only EU opponents who do so are engaging in rants against the 21st century
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/02/04/eu-referendum-leave-leads-nine/
Social protection for workers - why can't we do that ourselves?
Spreading of democracy and good governance - how long has Greece been in the EU?
A feeling of solidarity and kinship - we are strong partners in NATO, willing to fight for them.
Ability to live and work in 28 countries - mostly it seems most of 27 want to come here.
If your point is that it's not well governed - yeah, you got me.
https://m.facebook.com/Harry4brighthills/posts/1699163240299772