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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local by-election line-up: 3 CON defences and a L

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local by-election line-up: 3 CON defences and a LAB one

Bottisham (Con defence) on East Cambridgeshire
Result of council at last election (2015): Conservatives 36, Liberal Democrats 2, Independent 1 (Conservative majority of 33)
Result of ward at last election (2015) : Emboldened denotes elected
Conservatives 1,100, 1,002 (52%)
Liberal Democrats 678, 634 (32%)
Labour 347, 339 (16%)
Candidates duly nominated:

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    FPT:

    HYUFD said:


    All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum

    I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.
    They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Or the moon....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol
  • Wanderer said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:


    All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum

    I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.
    They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?
    Yes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    Wanderer said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:


    All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum

    I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.
    They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?
    I couldn't see fewer than 40% of Conservatives voting Leave. Conservative voters will probably come closest to voters overall. That would give an overall Leave figure of 40% too.

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2016
    Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)

    http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Moses_ said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Or the moon....
    45th anniversary of Apollo XIV atm.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FPT
    Justin124
    "I am not a Labour Party member by the way."

    Never said you were "a member" . Your man is still a total muppet though.
    :lol:
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @kevwodonnell: Alex Salmond's former advisor lays into the SNP's Thatcherite stance on the Scottish Rate of Income Tax. https://t.co/3wUgwt7pEL
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol

    Someone mentioned the other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as "Trump house" ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians and others.

    Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Moses_ said:

    FPT
    Justin124
    "I am not a Labour Party member by the way."

    Never said you were "a member" . Your man is still a total muppet though.
    :lol:

    But he is not my man.
  • MP_SE said:

    Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)

    http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/

    No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Moses_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol

    Someone mentioned he other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as Trump house ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians.

    Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.
    Iran has nothing to worry about with a Trump Gov't, Rubio is the man for that gig.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    justin124 said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPT
    Justin124
    "I am not a Labour Party member by the way."

    Never said you were "a member" . Your man is still a total muppet though.
    :lol:

    But he is not my man.
    Good
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Sean_F said:

    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.

    Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.
    A group strongly correlated with one another.

    That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
    Here is it:

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
    Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
  • Sean_F said:

    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.

    That's a good point.

    I think I've said here before that both the online and phone polls are wrong, and the truth is somewhere in between, which is why I expect a 57-58% Remain result atm.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,667
    Alnwick is the county town of Northumberland. Just sayin'
  • MP_SE said:

    Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)

    http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/

    No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.
    The disaster is the muzzling of virtually the whole of the Conservative Party.

    Hannan will lead and make the case (well) if no one else will, believe you me.

    I know him.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited February 2016
    @BBCNewsnight: On Tonight's Special Newsnight on TRIDENT: Defence Secretary Michael Fallon; Shadow Defence Secretary Emily Thornberry ...

    @BBCNewsnight: ... the former First Sea Lord and Security Minister Lord West; SNP Defence Spokesman Brendan O'Hara; the Green Party's Caroline Lucas ...

    @BBCNewsnight: ... Labour's John Woodcock; Major General Patrick Cordingley; Former Polish Foreign Minister Secretary Radek Sikorski ... #Trident

    @BBCNewsnight: ... former Clinton aide Nancy Soderberg and Security expert Professor Malcolm Chalmers #Trident
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    On topic:

    Measham is an interesting one. NWLeics was a marginal parliamentary seat taken by Labour in the 97 landslide, going back to the Tories in 2010. This is the sort of seat that Labour need to win if they ever want a majority government again.

    The council has had a significant BNP vote in the not too distant past, including a County Councillor in Coalville. There are a lot of objections to HS2 in the area as the track runs through without stopping anywhere nearby. I think the UKIP vote here would mostly come from Labour.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:


    All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum

    I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.
    They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?
    Yes.
    Hmm. I sat down to write a post explaining why I disagree but now that it comes to it I think you are right after all. The lack of senior ministers on the Leave side is a very severe blow isn't it?

    Well, it's a good thing I've been dithering about the odds and haven't bet on Leave yet.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Moses_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol

    Someone mentioned he other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as Trump house ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians.

    Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.
    Iran has nothing to worry about with a Trump Gov't, Rubio is the man for that gig.
    Judging by Rubio's debate speeches once in the White House he will invade Iran, Syria, Cuba, Russia and China.

    He's more belligerent than George W.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Speedy said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.

    Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.
    A group strongly correlated with one another.

    That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
    Here is it:

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
    Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
    PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
  • Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:


    All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum

    I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.
    They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?
    Yes.
    Hmm. I sat down to write a post explaining why I disagree but now that it comes to it I think you are right after all. The lack of senior ministers on the Leave side is a very severe blow isn't it?

    Well, it's a good thing I've been dithering about the odds and haven't bet on Leave yet.
    I don't want to be right. But this is a betting site.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    The most ardent Europhiles didn't want any stuff at all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944
    I've just started rewatching A Very Peculiar Practice, and I have to say that it is utterly superb
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    rcs1000 said:

    I've just started rewatching A Very Peculiar Practice, and I have to say that it is utterly superb

    It was - is, I mean.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    I've just started rewatching A Very Peculiar Practice, and I have to say that it is utterly superb

    Along with Green Wing, one of the best medical comedies.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNewsnight: On Tonight's Special Newsnight on TRIDENT: Defence Secretary Michael Fallon; Shadow Defence Secretary Emily Thornberry ...

    @BBCNewsnight: ... the former First Sea Lord and Security Minister Lord West; SNP Defence Spokesman Brendan O'Hara; the Green Party's Caroline Lucas ...

    @BBCNewsnight: ... Labour's John Woodcock; Major General Patrick Cordingley; Former Polish Foreign Minister Secretary Radek Sikorski ... #Trident

    @BBCNewsnight: ... former Clinton aide Nancy Soderberg and Security expert Professor Malcolm Chalmers #Trident

    So on one side Thornberry, Lucas and O'Hara, on the other side Fallon, West, Woodcock, Cordingley, Sikorski, Soderberg and Chalmers.

    Since they already had 5 from the UK in favour of Trident why did they feel the need to invite foreigners in support of Trident, and what does an ex-polish foreign minister have to offer that the other 6 cannot?
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    Don't think thats right. When asked if Cameron couldn't get change, majority supported leaving. The Remain majority was because people expected some reform. I know as I was one of them!!
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.'

    But one already trailed on here by the usual suspects of course.

    First we were told to expect various rabbits from the PM's hat, now we are told the whole process wasn't necessary.

    Although some of the usual suspects are still claiming you can identify gains for the UK in deal, if you use an electron microscope, or believe in fairies or similar,,,
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Wanderer said:

    Speedy said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.

    Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.
    A group strongly correlated with one another.

    That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
    Here is it:

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
    Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
    PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.
    When you have Phone polls saying that Tory voters and old people are split, and Online polls that say that Tory voters and old people are in favour of Leave by a 2-1 margin, one has to know which is which since the difference is caused by that metric.

    Now PB'ers are both in their vast majority Tory voters and old.
    That's why I suggested that experiment, too see if the Phone polls or the Online polls are correct.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Speedy said:

    Wanderer said:

    Speedy said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.

    UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.

    Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.
    A group strongly correlated with one another.

    That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
    Here is it:

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
    Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
    PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.
    When you have Phone polls saying that Tory voters and old people are split, and Online polls that say that Tory voters and old people are in favour of Leave by a 2-1 margin, one has to know which is which since the difference is caused by that metric.

    Now PB'ers are both in their vast majority Tory voters and old.
    That's why I suggested that experiment, too see if the Phone polls or the Online polls are correct.
    Yes, I get that. But PBers are not typical old Tory voters.
  • MP_SE said:

    Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)

    http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/

    No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.
    The disaster is the muzzling of virtually the whole of the Conservative Party.

    Hannan will lead and make the case (well) if no one else will, believe you me.

    I know him.
    I'm afraid I'm with Stark D on this one.

    He has the capacity to make the case very well indeed - if anyone undecided (which is the key demographic) is listening to him.

    But he'd be far too easily branded an extremist, a flag-carrier for the Tea Party Tendency, a danger to dearly beloved British institutions and a heretic from our country's unofficial Bevanite religion...
  • Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml

    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
  • Martin Shkreli showing why everyone hates bankers:

    https://youtu.be/pQ_cbhkbMx8
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.'

    Well, hawking cr*p used to be his job...
  • Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml

    Funny, when I was saying for the last couple of years that Cameron was a committed Europhile all the Cameroons on here were outraged. The same people who said they wouldn't decide until they saw what he brought back and now that he has brought back nothing are saying they will vote to stay in anyway.

    And they wonder why we call them hypocrites.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.
  • Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.

    Labour signed Lisbon. Big shame only way you can vote to oppose EU is by picking a hard right or hard left group.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.

    And it was Brown who stopped us going into the Euro.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944
    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a whole
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.

    Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
    Labour signed Lisbon. Big shame only way you can vote to oppose EU is by picking a hard right or hard left group.

    TSE is teasing you
  • Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
    And it was Brown who stopped us going into the Euro.

    Labour are the only party out of the big two to have a manifesto pledge to take us out of the EU
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    The "old Tory voters" on this site are hardly more representative of old Tory voters in the country than the people round the Cabinet table. People here talk about the strength of their vote waxing and waning as though it were a prize marrow they were growing. Normal people have barely thought about it yet.
  • MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.

    Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SamCoatesTimes: EXCLUSIVE - Leaked email from John Mills to Dom Cummings on Tuesday reveals new Vote Leave infighting and chaos and Labour support on brink

    @SamCoatesTimes: LEAK: Kate Hoey "no longer prepared to be co-chair of Labour Leave any longer but she has been persuaded not to announce this" - big blow
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a whole
    If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a whole
    If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough,
    As I keep saying, they blatantly obviously aren't.
  • @isam, sorry wasn't online, better say no bet now. TBH betting on a journalist's attire might represent a new low...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
    I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172

    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
    Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.

    Someone is forgetting about a certain dairy-loving PM ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a whole
    If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.
    PB is representative of political obsessives
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
    Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.
    I should have added hated by Tories and not the wider public. His legacy will be trashed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    Funny, when I was saying for the last couple of years that Cameron was a committed Europhile all the Cameroons on here were outraged. The same people who said they wouldn't decide until they saw what he brought back and now that he has brought back nothing are saying they will vote to stay in anyway.

    And they wonder why we call them hypocrites.

    The emperors new clothes
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Well time's up.

    The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
    By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.

    While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a whole
    If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.
    PB is representative of political obsessives
    Bearing in mind that this thread purports to be about council by elections in obscure parts of England, that is a statement of the bleeding obvious!
  • Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: EXCLUSIVE - Leaked email from John Mills to Dom Cummings on Tuesday reveals new Vote Leave infighting and chaos and Labour support on brink

    @SamCoatesTimes: LEAK: Kate Hoey "no longer prepared to be co-chair of Labour Leave any longer but she has been persuaded not to announce this" - big blow

    What a bloody farce.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are wonderfully talented debaters, capable of inspiring Scots not to think of boring statistics but dream about national destiny. But no amount of dreaming can change the facts. In his inaugural 2016 budget, Salmond could fire every policeman, release every prisoner, dissolve the military, remove every penny of funding for the Scottish arts and still not come fill the gap created by the missing oil money. It’s hard to think what would work. Taxing the top earners at 60 per cent would risk an exodus of talent to England.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    @isam, sorry wasn't online, better say no bet now. TBH betting on a journalist's attire might represent a new low...

    Furry muff

    Spread betting on foot and mouth deaths probably mine
  • Wanderer said:

    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
    Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.

    That's not going to happen but if in years to come the EU self destructs, as is likely, a new settlement will be needed by everyone
  • The main campaign group seeking to take Britain out of the EU is in danger of losing the referendum unless “damaging and unnecessary” bickering is stopped, according to a leaked internal email.

    In a sign of the bitter infighting in the Vote Leave group, one of its main supporters has accused campaign director Dominic Cummings of undermining the organisation by generating “ill feeling” among workers.

    John Mills, the multi-millionaire Labour donor who is the group’s deputy chairman, said that the feuding has prompted the MP Kate Hoey to stand down as co-chair of the Labour Leave group. Hoey, who is now supporting the separate Grassroots Out (GO), has agreed not to say anything publicly about the split.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/vote-leave-deputy-chairman-condemns-damaging-bickering-mills-cummings-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • Wanderer said:

    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
    Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.

    It may not be those words exactly but that is certainly what the sentiment will be for many people who were previously Tory voters.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    New CNN/WMUR N.H. poll just out.

    Trump 29 -1
    Rubio 18 +7
    Cruz 13 +1
    Kasich 12 +3
    Bush 10 +4
    Christie 4 -4

    At this rate Rubio is going to win N.H. even if Trump doesn't go down.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MP_SE said:

    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.
    Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.
    I should have added hated by Tories and not the wider public. His legacy will be trashed.

    MP SE = MP Slightly Eccentric?
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
    I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.

    Well since the only argument you have ever made on here for staying has revolved around your own personal self interest it is hardly surprising that we don't believe you when you claim to have the country's best interests at heart.
  • David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates

    Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 36% (-2)
    Leave: 45% (+3)
    (via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Wow. Somebody called Jefferson Davis has +1'd a comment I made on Google+ two years ago.
  • Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
    I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.

    Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.
  • Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited February 2016

    Martin Shkreli showing why everyone hates bankers:

    https://youtu.be/pQ_cbhkbMx8

    I am not sure you can categorize him as representative of even the worst of the bankers...He is one weird dude...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172

    Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll

    UKILTEU?

    I'll never measure up to bjo.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642


    MP SE = MP Slightly Eccentric?

    TSE's post at 10:17 proves my point quite nicely.
  • Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.

    Stupid post.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates

    Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll

    Put one and one together and you start to feel Tories straining on the Cameron leash.
  • David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates

    Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Needless to say if this is true (big if perhaps) then this makes me extremely happy.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 36% (-2)
    Leave: 45% (+3)
    (via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)

    Hopefully will help shift the odds on remain which are languishing around 1.33.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is 'Daves influence will win it for REMAIN' the new 'NOM is free money'?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
    I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.

    Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.
    Access to a single market

    Social protections of workers

    Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe

    A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage

    The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.
  • I love Nick Soames.

    He's just replied to a tweet about the Daily Mail front page

    @nsoamesmp: @stephentall well certainly not the Daily Mail out of date and just plain wrong
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.

    On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
    You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.

    All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
    You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.
    I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.

    Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.
    Access to a single market

    Social protections of workers

    Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe

    A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage

    The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.
    Only 3 out of those 5 may be true though and out of those 3 two of them are debatable.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MP_SE said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 36% (-2)
    Leave: 45% (+3)
    (via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)

    Hopefully will help shift the odds on remain which are languishing around 1.33.
    I do hope so, i have a decent sum on Leave at 4.0 ish and would be happy when the betting reverses so that I can be comfortably all green.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll

    Hopefully, the European leaders will say "they are leaving anyway - fuck 'em. Take the deal off the table..."
  • The main campaign group seeking to take Britain out of the EU is in danger of losing the referendum unless “damaging and unnecessary” bickering is stopped, according to a leaked internal email.

    In a sign of the bitter infighting in the Vote Leave group, one of its main supporters has accused campaign director Dominic Cummings of undermining the organisation by generating “ill feeling” among workers.

    John Mills, the multi-millionaire Labour donor who is the group’s deputy chairman, said that the feuding has prompted the MP Kate Hoey to stand down as co-chair of the Labour Leave group. Hoey, who is now supporting the separate Grassroots Out (GO), has agreed not to say anything publicly about the split.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/vote-leave-deputy-chairman-condemns-damaging-bickering-mills-cummings-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Dominic Cummings does seem to be a bit of a problem.

    I can't believe the level of childish infighting and petulance on the crucial vote for the whole nation's future; one they've been waiting for decades.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll

    It's all Farage's fault. Oh, hang on...
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Stupid post.'

    Actually I think TSE is at least half right. Cameron's current con is certainly on a par with Heath's sell-out and Major's betrayal over Maastricht. Most of the worst surrenders over Europe have occurred under 'Conservative' governments.

    I had thought the party had learned its lesson, but it seems the leadership and I'm afraid most of the MPs just can't be trusted.
  • Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
    Stupid post.

    Factual though.

    I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.

    Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
  • Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 36% (-2)
    Leave: 45% (+3)
    (via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)

    That's a good start. I'd have hoped for even more, but I'll take it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AndyJS said:

    Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll

    It's all Farage's fault. Oh, hang on...
    He's on QT isn't he?

    Peak LEAVE
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited February 2016

    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:
    They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.
    Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.
    You won't like this article much more either :p calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
    With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.

    There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.

    What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
    http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
    The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.

    Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
    Stupid post.
    Factual though.

    I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.

    Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.

    Crikey. That's terrible news. Puts all the politics and betting into perspective.
This discussion has been closed.