It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
Someone's Volvo is 'sabotaged' - Kipper outrage.
Radiological poisoning on London's streets - Kipper 'Meh'.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
I've always thought this is a bit of a blunt tool for everything else than comparing politicians to other groups.
It is more nuanced. For example, Doctors will be more trusted about an individual's health than on alcohol limits, or politics...
Note that that survey was for a month to 5th Jan. It would be interesting to see if the public opinion of doctors has changed much in the past three weeks of striking medics being in the news.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
Russia considered one of their spies to be a traitor, they killed him, I've no idea why this is even news.
Really?
When was the trial?
Priceless.
Chakrabarti is standing down from Liberty, get your CV in and make a placard to wave in Red Square.
It appears only one of us believes in the due process of law.
So its not just on radiological poisoning (and spreading a trail across London & Hamburg) that you and Mr Putin are as one.
Do you enjoy kissing little boy's tummies too?
This Putin and Russia for heavens sake, you're acting as if a Boy Scout was caught pinching a Wagon Wheel.
So its ok for Putin to murder people he doesn't much like on British soil with his assasins leaving a trail of radiation across London and inside aircraft then?
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
Someone's Volvo is 'sabotaged' - Kipper outrage.
Radiological poisoning on London's streets - Kipper 'Meh'.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
Whether people are surprised or not that Putin had him killed is not the issue. One doesn't have to be surprised by the actions of unpalatable regimes to condemn them.
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
Every now and again, just when you think the anti-establishment right or left have a fair case, they come out with summat completely bonkers.
Yep. And then proceed to get hypocritically angry and upset if someone does not share their righteous outrage on some minor bureaucratic issue.
Take this Litvenenko stuff - I don't care about the story, and everyone thought Putins government ordered it anyway. But the mocking hypocritical dismissal defending st Putin and claiming anyone who is interested is a fool makes me want to punch Putin in the face myself. Many such people are on my side for the EuroRef as well, which is worrying.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
I've no
Because of
As with most unpleasant things governments do, such as spying on allies and torture, you may well do them, but you are supposed to be discreet about it so no one has to publicly admit you probably did it and start taking action to show how offended they are.
You sum up just why I won't vote for a candidate who will sit on the Government benches.
If we ever get a rainbow coalition your options will get very curtailed.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
Russia considered one of their spies to be a traitor, they killed him, I've no idea why this is even news.
Really?
When was the trial?
Priceless.
Chakrabarti is standing down from Liberty, get your CV in and make a placard to wave in Red Square.
It appears only one of us believes in the due process of law.
So its not just on radiological poisoning (and spreading a trail across London & Hamburg) that you and Mr Putin are as one.
Do you enjoy kissing little boy's tummies too?
This Putin and Russia for heavens sake, you're acting as if a Boy Scout was caught pinching a Wagon Wheel.
So its ok for Putin to murder people he doesn't much like on British soil with his assasins leaving a trail of radiation across London and inside aircraft then?
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
Nah. They didn't want it to look like an accident, they wanted any other potential defectors to see him suffer a long slow death on TV, well aware of who did it and why.
In my own life and journey through extremism, the one voice that kept nagging at me throughout, and eventually helped pull me from the brink, was my own British-educated and fully integrated mother’s.
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
The police force's job is to prevent murder, even of people you don't like.
Jeremy Corbyn has a personal rating of -39, the worst ever recorded. Unless Labour changes its leader, the 2020 election is already over. There is nothing to see or say. Politics has gone on holiday, on a motorbike to eastern Europe with Diane Abbott
Interesting to see the row-back and expansion by the police on the "terrorist house" incident.
Because, in shock news to some here on PB (good morning @Charles, @Plato_Says), police interviewing a family because of a seeming spelling mistake in isolation, whatever it was,
...WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.
My point still stands: that they had proceedures to follow and it was good they followed them. It was not some outrage to civil liberties as @blackburn63 believed. I never commented on whether the spelling mistake should be sufficent to trigger the proceedures because I have no idea what the appropriate threshold should be.
But if you'd rather go "Yah! Boo! Sucks!" than engaged in a nuanced and sophisticated debate then knock yourself out buddy
Mr. 63, you're the one relaxed about his murder. What do you suppose he did to warrant it?
I don't care what he did.
Even if that is do, we dont want governments to murder peop,e openly in our streets! There's a lot of governments in the world who no doubt would be pleased they can murder people in London and we should not care apparently. Recipe for anarchy.
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
Someone's Volvo is 'sabotaged' - Kipper outrage.
Radiological poisoning on London's streets - Kipper 'Meh'.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
Brilliant, I just laughed out loud.
The suggestion the Fsb should do that is ott. The other bit appears entirely accurate.
Interesting to see the row-back and expansion by the police on the "terrorist house" incident.
Because, in shock news to some here on PB (good morning @Charles, @Plato_Says), police interviewing a family because of a seeming spelling mistake in isolation, whatever it was,
...WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.
But not an infringement of civil liberties which was my point
And you are completely right. The police knocked on the family's door and asked them a few questions.
There was no forcible entry at 5am. No one was taken into custody. No one's phone was tapped. Their house was not ripped apart.
I fail to see what is so shocking about the police knocking on a door and asking a few questions.
It seems that the police should not ask anyone questions and should never investigate the murders of people who might have annoyed Vladimir Putin. What a strange world we live in.
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
You say of course it won't but I've just been a bit shocked to hear on Radio 4 the news that the Netherlands is now experiencing disturbances, the one place where you'd think that sort of thing wouldn't happen.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
Whether people are surprised or not that Putin had him killed is not the issue. One doesn't have to be surprised by the actions of unpalatable regimes to condemn them.
No, don't you see. Even though it was on our soil and many others are still risk when such assassinations occur, it's nothing to to with us because Putin.
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
Of course it could fall apart!
There are any number of triggers that could lead to its disintegration. There is also the most likely scenario, that it will muddle through as always. And various other options.
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
Nah. They didn't want it to look like an accident, they wanted any other potential defectors to see him suffer a long slow death on TV, well aware of who did it and why.
At last Mr Sandpit nails it.
Look out now, you'll be excommunicated by the pb hand wringers
Well. Enough of the continuing bizarre kipper Putin love in - disguised here with the more ridiculous 'worrying about murder in a British city is stupid, now go to a soup kitchen if you care about things' defence - and a good day to all.
OK Robert, what probability would you put on that 'fall apart' scenario, if by that we mean either significant numbers of countries actually leaving the EU? I'll say 1%
It's lunatic to be complacent about extra-judicial killings being carried out by foreign powers on the streets of London. Bizarrely, the people who see despotism in every innocuous move by the EU are apparently entirely comfortable with the real thing.
Every now and again, just when you think the anti-establishment right or left have a fair case, they come out with summat completely bonkers.
Yep. And then proceed to get hypocritically angry and upset if someone does not share their righteous outrage on some minor bureaucratic issue.
Take this Litvenenko stuff - I don't care about the story, and everyone thought Putins government ordered it anyway. But the mocking hypocritical dismissal defending st Putin and claiming anyone who is interested is a fool makes me want to punch Putin in the face myself. Many such people are on my side for the EuroRef as well, which is worrying.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
I've no
Because of
As with most unpleasant things governments do, such as spying on allies and torture, you may well do them, but you are supposed to be discreet about it so no one has to publicly admit you probably did it and start taking action to show how offended they are.
You sum up just why I won't vote for a candidate who will sit on the Government benches.
If we ever get a rainbow coalition your options will get very curtailed.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
If one gangster kills another gangster, it's still a crime. Allowing unpleasant people to be killed with impunity leads to anarchy.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
The police force's job is to prevent murder, even of people you don't like.
You surprise me Mr F, I'm not sure how you prevent murder. Interestingly murder is rising in the UK according to today's papers, which kind of makes my point.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Quite. Mrs Sandpit thinks that the failure of the UK to actually do anything about it is a sign of British weakness in Russian eyes. Sending the Ambassador back to Moscow would be a starting point, they still like to think the way we did 30 years ago!
You clearly have an excellent wife Mr Sandpit, Russia executed a traitor, we welcome ours back from Syria with open arms.
Let's be frank, Putin is no angel, but he has Russia's best interests at heart, we pussyfoot foot around so many issues.
Putin seems to be liked by Kippers and Corbynites. Why?
More crocodile tears.
I'm ambivalent towards Putin as I am most world leaders, however I absolutely respect countries that deal with traitors.
I'm sure you'll be able to explain that Litivinenko was a decent, caring family man just doing his job and that Putin ordered his execution after a bad day killing bears.
What you have written doesn't make any sense, so no change there. What tears? Why put words into my mouth, unless it's so you can disagree with them? Apparently Putin did order his killing, not sure how bears come into it.
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
You say of course it won't but I've just been a bit shocked to hear on Radio 4 the news that the Netherlands is now experiencing disturbances, the one place where you'd think that sort of thing wouldn't happen.
Err...yes you would. I lived in the Netherlands for four years until just recently. There's a lot of frustration with Islam and migration. They are very very, almost religiously, tolerant people. Want to be naked and have gay sex in public whilst smoking pot and riding a goat - no drama. They therefore find the inherent intolerance and conservatism and anti-feminist core of Islam very vexing. On matters of immigration the coffee machine chat can be really quite kipperish. But...they do like the EU and the Euro - the dumb bastards.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
The police force's job is to prevent murder, even of people you don't like.
You surprise me Mr F, I'm not sure how you prevent murder. Interestingly murder is rising in the UK according to today's papers, which kind of makes my point.
By guarding people who are known to be at risk; using intelligence to arrest people who are conspiring to murder; arresting people who've committed, or attempted to commit murder.
As an aside, if the assassins of Litvinenko had killed a bystander, would that be okay too?
OK Robert, what probability would you put on that 'fall apart' scenario, if by that we mean either significant numbers of countries actually leaving the EU? I'll say 1%
Not much more, but it's quite possible.
A number of Eastern European countries are simply going to say no to Berlin and Brussels on refugees. It is possible that there are a second set of elections in Spain this year and that Podemos ends up on top. It's possible the PVV ends up on close to 50 seats in the Netherlands. It's possible that the 5 Star Movement moves into poll position in Italy. It's possible that the Chinese economic malaise spreads. All these things could dramatically stress the EU.
Politicians want to get elected. The "European dream" is only interesting if it leads to power. If it becomes a significant vote loser, anti-EU governments will be elected. Of course, support for the EU and the Euro is still surprisingly strong in most EU countries. (Only Italy - of the Eurozone members - is even close to 50-50 on 'good Euro or bad Euro' questions.)
Interesting to see the row-back and expansion by the police on the "terrorist house" incident.
Because, in shock news to some here on PB (good morning @Charles, @Plato_Says), police interviewing a family because of a seeming spelling mistake in isolation, whatever it was,
...WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.
My point still stands: that they had proceedures to follow and it was good they followed them. It was not some outrage to civil liberties as @blackburn63 believed. I never commented on whether the spelling mistake should be sufficent to trigger the proceedures because I have no idea what the appropriate threshold should be.
But if you'd rather go "Yah! Boo! Sucks!" than engaged in a nuanced and sophisticated debate then knock yourself out buddy
It was reported yesterday that a 10-yr old boy wrote that he lived in a terrorist house and as a result, the school called the police who went to investigate by talking to the boy's family about it.
As reported (one perhaps spelling mistake, a police response) that was ludicrous because I am sure other measures short of calling the police could have been taken to determine whether he came from a long line of dumb terrorists, or whether it was a spelling mistake, or whether there was some other reason.
It now turns out that the police visited the house for several reasons unrelated to terrorism and they criticised the BBC for sexing up the story. Which makes much more sense.
To call the police for one isolated incident, as reported, yet which you and others here thought was entirely justified, would have been ludicrous.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
You see this is where hysteria clouds judgement. I have never said its ok for anybody to kill anybody, I'm simply poking a stick at those who are pretending to be surprised and outraged.
The man was clearly seen by the Russians as being a traitor, it seems he wanted us to protect him, I've no idea what he'd done. He would have known his life was in danger when he began double crossing Russia.
There are bad people in the world, if you don't want an umbrella up your arse on a tube station don't work for the KGB.
You lot sound like a lion tamer who moans when he gets mauled,
I'm so much on the fence on the EU question that I'll probably end up voting Remain while simultaneously hoping that Leave wins. Or vice versa. Maybe others have similar feelings.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
The police force's job is to prevent murder, even of people you don't like.
You surprise me Mr F, I'm not sure how you prevent murder. Interestingly murder is rising in the UK according to today's papers, which kind of makes my point.
By guarding people who are known to be at risk; using intelligence to arrest people who are conspiring to murder; arresting people who've committed, or attempted to commit murder.
As an aside, if the assassins of Litvinenko had killed a bystander, would that be okay too?
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
If one gangster kills another gangster, it's still a crime. Allowing unpleasant people to be killed with impunity leads to anarchy.
Sean, if you were empaneled to sit on a jury of someone who admitted shooting Corbyn dead, but pleaded "justifiable homicide", would you be minded to acquit them?
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
You say of course it won't but I've just been a bit shocked to hear on Radio 4 the news that the Netherlands is now experiencing disturbances, the one place where you'd think that sort of thing wouldn't happen.
Err...yes you would. I lived in the Netherlands for four years until just recently. There's a lot of frustration with Islam and migration. They are very very, almost religiously, tolerant people. Want to be naked and have gay sex in public whilst smoking pot and riding a goat - no drama. They therefore find the inherent intolerance and conservatism and anti-feminist core of Islam very vexing. On matters of immigration the coffee machine chat can be really quite kipperish. But...they do like the EU and the Euro - the dumb bastards.
Since the start of the Euro, job creation in the Netherlands has outstripped the UK, and the US, rising from 7.6m to 8.4m.
They have been one of the Euro winners, so it's not that surprising.
I'm so much on the fence on the EU question that I'll probably end up voting Remain while simultaneously hoping that Leave wins. Or vice versa. Maybe others have similar feelings.
We can always re-join. And the Germans would love us to, as they get overwhelmed with tin pot economies like Italy and Greece and refugees. Vote Leave.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Quite. Mrs Sandpit thinks that the failure of the UK to actually do anything about it is a sign of British weakness in Russian eyes. Sending the Ambassador back to Moscow would be a starting point, they still like to think the way we did 30 years ago!
The bunch of wishy washy Liberal fearties in charge will keep kissing Putin's butt. He must have a great laugh at them and their windbaggery
The irony in all the defence of Putin from isolationist right is that our weak response to incident is a pretty clear case of our own national interest being subverted to American foreign policy.
Mr. 1000, the countries have already said No, effectively.
A few weeks ago I read only a few hundred (it was meant to be tens of thousands, maybe more) of migrants to be relocated from Merkel's Madhouse had actually gone anywhere, and several countries (mostly eastern) had come out and refused to abide by the voted-for (by joyous QMV) quota scheme.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
The police force's job is to prevent murder, even of people you don't like.
You surprise me Mr F, I'm not sure how you prevent murder. Interestingly murder is rising in the UK according to today's papers, which kind of makes my point.
By guarding people who are known to be at risk; using intelligence to arrest people who are conspiring to murder; arresting people who've committed, or attempted to commit murder.
As an aside, if the assassins of Litvinenko had killed a bystander, would that be okay too?
A few years ago, during a crime wave in Macao, when motorcycle-borne drive by assasinations between rival gangs were becoming quite common, the chief of police made a statement that tourists and visitors shouldn't worry as these were professional hitmen who were only targeting other gangsters and were adept enough not to shoot anyone else by mistake.
Mr. 63, you seem quite relaxed a British citizen was assassinated on British soil.
Was he threatening to behead Russians or bomb Russia?
British my butt MD, he was a paid patsy of the British state , as said a traitor in any normal world. Not very nice the way they topped him but working for MI5 was baiting them too far.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
That last sentence is surely self contradictory?
Yeah I thought that but you still got the point didn't you? It's a sure way of confirming that, when grammar and punctuation are corrected.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
That last sentence is surely self contradictory?
Yeah I thought that but you still got the point didn't you? It's a sure way of confirming that, when grammar and punctuation are corrected.
If the point was that coherent argument isn't your strong point, then yes, it was adequately made.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I don't think you understand the legal basis of a public inquiry, nor do you understand probably. The narrative is not supported by the evidence and the inquiry brings to mind the Hutton Inquiry.
People whose interests are not our own, once again pushing their new cold war agenda. Unfortunately for you I think you will find the British national interest will win out.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
I find the comparison some made yesterday between an annoying political opponent - even one working as a spy - and a murderous jihadist who filmed himself cutting people's heads off to be particularly obnoxious.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
If one gangster kills another gangster, it's still a crime. Allowing unpleasant people to be killed with impunity leads to anarchy.
Sean, if you were empaneled to sit on a jury of someone who admitted shooting Corbyn dead, but pleaded "justifiable homicide", would you be minded to acquit them?
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
It is worth noting that neither the UK nor the US governments have ever killed our ex-spies after defection to another country.
And I presumably if a senior ISIS person defected to the UK, we wouldn't defend the right of ISIS to have him poisoned on Brick Lane.
Is that deliberate or just down to incompetence though
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
That last sentence is surely self contradictory?
Yeah I thought that but you still got the point didn't you? It's a sure way of confirming that, when grammar and punctuation are corrected.
If the point was that coherent argument isn't your strong point, then yes, it was adequately made.
I noted on BBC QT last night that only one was described a comedian. But as well as Grainne Maguire (Who?), Peter Hain also appeared! I do love that Nigel Dodds though. Man after my own heart.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
I find the comparison some made yesterday between an annoying political opponent - even one working as a spy - and a murderous jihadist who filmed himself cutting people's heads off to be particularly obnoxious.
Richard, I'm not sure anybody is trying to defend it, but I'm astonished that anybody is surprised by it.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
I find the comparison some made yesterday between an annoying political opponent - even one working as a spy - and a murderous jihadist who filmed himself cutting people's heads off to be particularly obnoxious.
I am not amazed at the number of loons on here who have willfully misunderstood what a public inquiry is, and what the word probably means. I am sorry if you don't like that people don't go along with your agenda.
I noted on BBC QT last night that only one was described a comedian. But as well as Grainne Maguire (Who?), Peter Hain also appeared! I do love that Nigel Dodds though. Man after my own heart.
Interesting to see the row-back and expansion by the police on the "terrorist house" incident.
Because, in shock news to some here on PB (good morning @Charles, @Plato_Says), police interviewing a family because of a seeming spelling mistake in isolation, whatever it was,
...WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.
But not an infringement of civil liberties which was my point
And you are completely right. The police knocked on the family's door and asked them a few questions.
There was no forcible entry at 5am. No one was taken into custody. No one's phone was tapped. Their house was not ripped apart.
I fail to see what is so shocking about the police knocking on a door and asking a few questions.
It seems that the police should not ask anyone questions and should never investigate the murders of people who might have annoyed Vladimir Putin. What a strange world we live in.
If only they were so vigilant in tackling real crime. If you have a crime committed against you the most you are likely to get is someone phoning you with a number for your insurance.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
I find the comparison some made yesterday between an annoying political opponent - even one working as a spy - and a murderous jihadist who filmed himself cutting people's heads off to be particularly obnoxious.
I am not amazed at the number of loons on here who have willfully misunderstood what a public inquiry is, and what the word probably means. I am sorry if you don't like that people don't go along with your agenda.
Given that your agenda is clearly to support and promote Putin no matter what I am quite happy to be in opposition to you. I doubt you have the first idea of how a public inquiry works.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
I dont think its that many - just one very repetitively and the usual Nat BRITBAD poster - whodathunkit - the village gave both the day off!
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
It is worth noting that neither the UK nor the US governments have ever killed our ex-spies after defection to another country.
And I presumably if a senior ISIS person defected to the UK, we wouldn't defend the right of ISIS to have him poisoned on Brick Lane.
Is that deliberate or just down to incompetence though
Policy. MI6 have always been quite legalistic and considered the "rough stuff" as not professional. It is worth noting that in the various kiss-and-tell memoirs, people like Peter Wright were angry that their suggestions for "active measures" got turned down. For example, Wright suggested bobby trapping IRA arms catches - he was turned down. Tomlinson got upset because the idea of assassinating Qaddafi was turned down - with a bit of reprimand for considering it...
This goes back to WWII and beyond - MI6 considered SOE idiots who achieved little and damaged the operations that MI6 was undertaking.
Corbyn's director of elections has said the party can expect to lose every constituency seat in Scotland, control of the Welsh Assembly, 200 council seats, and half a dozen councils.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Quite. Mrs Sandpit thinks that the failure of the UK to actually do anything about it is a sign of British weakness in Russian eyes. Sending the Ambassador back to Moscow would be a starting point, they still like to think the way we did 30 years ago!
The bunch of wishy washy Liberal fearties in charge will keep kissing Putin's butt. He must have a great laugh at them and their windbaggery
Apart from the bit where the Russian economy is collapsing and his "Marshals" (the big oligarchs behind him) are finding it very difficult to do business - and getting angry about that...
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
It's almost a prerequisite of the left and the Nats to despise Britain so much that any enemy of ours is somehow heroic.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Quite. Mrs Sandpit thinks that the failure of the UK to actually do anything about it is a sign of British weakness in Russian eyes. Sending the Ambassador back to Moscow would be a starting point, they still like to think the way we did 30 years ago!
The bunch of wishy washy Liberal fearties in charge will keep kissing Putin's butt. He must have a great laugh at them and their windbaggery
Apart from the bit where the Russian economy is collapsing and his "Marshals" (the big oligarchs behind him) are finding it very difficult to do business - and getting angry about that...
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Quite. Mrs Sandpit thinks that the failure of the UK to actually do anything about it is a sign of British weakness in Russian eyes. Sending the Ambassador back to Moscow would be a starting point, they still like to think the way we did 30 years ago!
You clearly have an excellent wife Mr Sandpit, Russia executed a traitor, we welcome ours back from Syria with open arms.
Let's be frank, Putin is no angel, but he has Russia's best interests at heart, we pussyfoot foot around so many issues.
Putin seems to be liked by Kippers and Corbynites. Why?
More crocodile tears.
I'm ambivalent towards Putin as I am most world leaders, however I absolutely respect countries that deal with traitors.
I'm sure you'll be able to explain that Litivinenko was a decent, caring family man just doing his job and that Putin ordered his execution after a bad day killing bears.
What you have written doesn't make any sense, so no change there. What tears? Why put words into my mouth, unless it's so you can disagree with them? Apparently Putin did order his killing, not sure how bears come into it.
Why we had to pay a bunch of halfwits loads of money to come out with what any 5 year old could have told us in 5 minutes is what bothers me. What a sham and "money for the chums" , especially when we know they are scared to say boo to Putin in any event.
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
Russia considered one of their spies to be a traitor, they killed him, I've no idea why this is even news.
Really?
When was the trial?
Priceless.
Chakrabarti is standing down from Liberty, get your CV in and make a placard to wave in Red Square.
It appears only one of us believes in the due process of law.
So its not just on radiological poisoning (and spreading a trail across London & Hamburg) that you and Mr Putin are as one.
Do you enjoy kissing little boy's tummies too?
Due process?
This Putin and Russia for heavens sake, you're acting as if a Boy Scout was caught pinching a Wagon Wheel.
I'm genuinely chuckling at some of the handwringing tosh I'm reading on here this morning. Look, Putin is a nut job but he's not our nut job, surely you have more self satisfying topics to wring your hands about?
Get yourself down to the local soup kitchen and do some good instead of pretending to give a toss that a spy was killed. Alternatively imagine that James Bond is a real person.
As someone on the right of the Conservative Party - who has also voted UKIP in the past - can I say I've found your posts on this subject this morning to be absolutely disgusting.
Truly, you are an embarrassment to the Leave cause.
Martin Kettle notes this morning that we are approaching the 100th anniversary of the October Revolution. If Jeremy Corbyn is still in power in October 2017, what words do you think he will find to mark this centenary?
'I wonder whether the EU might collapse before the year is out.'
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
You say of course it won't but I've just been a bit shocked to hear on Radio 4 the news that the Netherlands is now experiencing disturbances, the one place where you'd think that sort of thing wouldn't happen.
Err...yes you would. I lived in the Netherlands for four years until just recently. There's a lot of frustration with Islam and migration. They are very very, almost religiously, tolerant people. Want to be naked and have gay sex in public whilst smoking pot and riding a goat - no drama. They therefore find the inherent intolerance and conservatism and anti-feminist core of Islam very vexing. On matters of immigration the coffee machine chat can be really quite kipperish. But...they do like the EU and the Euro - the dumb bastards.
Which is why Pim Fortuyn did so well. And why he was considered such a "danger" by the regressive left. Trying to portray the gay professor with the first generation immigrant SO as a racist/fascist didn't work....
Morning, well done to Kieran for the podcasts, must take a lot of time and effort.
On the subject of Mr. Litvinenko, the Russian-born Mrs Sandpit says that of course Putin did it - the guy was a traitor to Russia for working with MI6, and the mother country wanted to dispatch him in a way that would attract headlines and ensure that the next traitor thought twice about it!!
Well said Mrs Sandpit, I posted on here similar yesterday, the bloke was a spy not a charity worker.
That's not the point though is it?
No one has denied what Litvinenko did for a living, the issue is the use of a radiological weapon by a foreign power on British soil.
Oh well.
No doubt you'd be calling for immediate retaliation if a Middle Eastern nation had conducted such an operation here.
It must be a Kipper thing, since Putin is the world leader Farage most admires. Presumably that makes him an 'untouchable'.
Russia considered one of their spies to be a traitor, they killed him, I've no idea why this is even news.
Really?
When was the trial?
Priceless.
Chakrabarti is standing down from Liberty, get your CV in and make a placard to wave in Red Square.
It appears only one of us believes in the due process of law.
So its not just on radiological poisoning (and spreading a trail across London & Hamburg) that you and Mr Putin are as one.
Do you enjoy kissing little boy's tummies too?
Due process?
This Putin and Russia for heavens sake, you're acting as if a Boy Scout was caught pinching a Wagon Wheel.
I'm genuinely chuckling at some of the handwringing tosh I'm reading on here this morning. Look, Putin is a nut job but he's not our nut job, surely you have more self satisfying topics to wring your hands about?
Get yourself down to the local soup kitchen and do some good instead of pretending to give a toss that a spy was killed. Alternatively imagine that James Bond is a real person.
As someone on the right of the Conservative Party - who has also voted UKIP in the past - can I say I've found your posts on this subject this morning to be absolutely disgusting.
Truly, you are an embarrassment to the Leave cause.
What on earth has the death of a spy to do with Leave?
I'm disappointed. I dropped a deliberate troll into today's thread for Malc but he hasn't bitten. Shucks.
Patrick , did not spot it , please repeat and I will be outraged. It is my birthday today so I am unlikely to be grumpy ( though a few may make me break my vow ). Was shocked to hear you lived in Holland and indulged in gay sex naked in the streets whilst taking drugs. I had you down as a pillar of society , a kind of more sophisticated Mr Mannering.
I can't remember who but recently somebody asked if pb had ever changed one's view on something, I have to say yes it has. I've discovered this week that our police force's role is to investigate spelling mistakes and guard Russian spies.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Guard Russian spies!
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
This gets better. Look, the Russuans killed one of their spies, I have no interest in how they did it or how they arrived at the conclusion.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
They killed a British citizen on British soil.
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
I am quite amazed at how many people on here - outside of the obvious Putin stooges like LondonBob and Luckyguy - are trying to defend this murder.
It's almost a prerequisite of the left and the Nats to despise Britain so much that any enemy of ours is somehow heroic.
It is also a prerequisite of the jackboot right wingers on here to despise parts of Britain , especially the Toom Tabards / plastic Scots.
Michael Portillo on last nights This Week programme outlined a possible winning path for LEAVE not a million miles from my idea of letting REMAIN send big state propaganda while LEAVE just point to the newspaper headlines
Having all the establishment (Labour, Tories, BBC, CBI, etc etc) so wedded to the EU may play into LEAVEs hands as the public will be suspicious as to the motive of the corporates
Casting Britain as the plucky DAVID vs the Corporate GOLIATH might be a tactic
... and maybe Portillo in an unofficial "neutral" capacity, could have an effect with those who enjoy his tv work if he isn't to be the face of LEAVE (which I think he should be)
Comments
http://on.ft.com/1ZGbW68
No I don't.
Radiological poisoning on London's streets - Kipper 'Meh'.
The FSB would have been better advised to loosen the wheel nuts on Litvinenko's car.
There's never been a better time to be a crook, no wonder our prisons are full.
Take this Litvenenko stuff - I don't care about the story, and everyone thought Putins government ordered it anyway. But the mocking hypocritical dismissal defending st Putin and claiming anyone who is interested is a fool makes me want to punch Putin in the face myself. Many such people are on my side for the EuroRef as well, which is worrying. If we ever get a rainbow coalition your options will get very curtailed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35375303
The police's job is to prevent and investigate crime. Do you believe that the murder of Litvenko is not a crime?
If so, what is it that makes it not a crime?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/21/what-david-cameron-gets-right-about-terrorism.html
In my own life and journey through extremism, the one voice that kept nagging at me throughout, and eventually helped pull me from the brink, was my own British-educated and fully integrated mother’s.
Of course it won't. The sense of crisis being generated by these comments is a cover to try to push through more integration, as always. Just as the currency crises of the 1990s paved the way for the euro.
And you don't care what he did that prompted his murder. That staggers me.
But if you'd rather go "Yah! Boo! Sucks!" than engaged in a nuanced and sophisticated debate then knock yourself out buddy
There was no forcible entry at 5am. No one was taken into custody. No one's phone was tapped. Their house was not ripped apart.
I fail to see what is so shocking about the police knocking on a door and asking a few questions.
It seems that the police should not ask anyone questions and should never investigate the murders of people who might have annoyed Vladimir Putin. What a strange world we live in.
I'm sorry if that offends you.
PS was Litivinenko the one chasing Roger Moore along that moving train?
There are any number of triggers that could lead to its disintegration. There is also the most likely scenario, that it will muddle through as always. And various other options.
Look out now, you'll be excommunicated by the pb hand wringers
I have heard some bat shit crazy views on this site before. But the view that - because someone is or was a spy - that it's OK for a foreign government to murder them in the UK is just staggering.
As an aside: is it only OK for the Russians to kill people on British streets, or do you extend the courtesy to the Iranians, the French, ISIS, the EU, and the Vatican?
What tears? Why put words into my mouth, unless it's so you can disagree with them?
Apparently Putin did order his killing, not sure how bears come into it.
As an aside, if the assassins of Litvinenko had killed a bystander, would that be okay too?
Bizarre odds on Betfair for the SA/Eng Test Match which has just started. For some reason South Africa are favourites with punters:
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/cricket/market/1.121959912
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/34404834
A number of Eastern European countries are simply going to say no to Berlin and Brussels on refugees. It is possible that there are a second set of elections in Spain this year and that Podemos ends up on top. It's possible the PVV ends up on close to 50 seats in the Netherlands. It's possible that the 5 Star Movement moves into poll position in Italy. It's possible that the Chinese economic malaise spreads. All these things could dramatically stress the EU.
Politicians want to get elected. The "European dream" is only interesting if it leads to power. If it becomes a significant vote loser, anti-EU governments will be elected. Of course, support for the EU and the Euro is still surprisingly strong in most EU countries. (Only Italy - of the Eurozone members - is even close to 50-50 on 'good Euro or bad Euro' questions.)
It was reported yesterday that a 10-yr old boy wrote that he lived in a terrorist house and as a result, the school called the police who went to investigate by talking to the boy's family about it.
As reported (one perhaps spelling mistake, a police response) that was ludicrous because I am sure other measures short of calling the police could have been taken to determine whether he came from a long line of dumb terrorists, or whether it was a spelling mistake, or whether there was some other reason.
It now turns out that the police visited the house for several reasons unrelated to terrorism and they criticised the BBC for sexing up the story. Which makes much more sense.
To call the police for one isolated incident, as reported, yet which you and others here thought was entirely justified, would have been ludicrous.
Nuanced and sophisticated enough for you? Buddy.
The man was clearly seen by the Russians as being a traitor, it seems he wanted us to protect him, I've no idea what he'd done. He would have known his life was in danger when he began double crossing Russia.
There are bad people in the world, if you don't want an umbrella up your arse on a tube station don't work for the KGB.
You lot sound like a lion tamer who moans when he gets mauled,
They have been one of the Euro winners, so it's not that surprising.
A few weeks ago I read only a few hundred (it was meant to be tens of thousands, maybe more) of migrants to be relocated from Merkel's Madhouse had actually gone anywhere, and several countries (mostly eastern) had come out and refused to abide by the voted-for (by joyous QMV) quota scheme.
Voting one way and hoping the other wins seems a sure-fire way to feel grumpy with the result.
People whose interests are not our own, once again pushing their new cold war agenda. Unfortunately for you I think you will find the British national interest will win out.
I find the comparison some made yesterday between an annoying political opponent - even one working as a spy - and a murderous jihadist who filmed himself cutting people's heads off to be particularly obnoxious.
Jaw dropping.
Ronnie Campbell: "Get behind Jeremy Corbyn – if he fails, the Left is f***ed"
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/house/ronnie-campbell-get-behind-jeremy-corbyn-–-if-he-fails-left-fed
This goes back to WWII and beyond - MI6 considered SOE idiots who achieved little and damaged the operations that MI6 was undertaking.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12114316/Sir-Michael-Caine-backs-leaving-EU-and-lashes-out-at-faceless-civil-servants-dictating-to-Britain.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12113788/Jeremy-Corbyn-warned-that-Labour-faces-triple-whammy-of-election-blows-in-May.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12111983/oil-price-slump-russia-rouble-ruble-low-against-dollar.html
Truly, you are an embarrassment to the Leave cause.
Btw I love you too.
Having all the establishment (Labour, Tories, BBC, CBI, etc etc) so wedded to the EU may play into LEAVEs hands as the public will be suspicious as to the motive of the corporates
Casting Britain as the plucky DAVID vs the Corporate GOLIATH might be a tactic
... and maybe Portillo in an unofficial "neutral" capacity, could have an effect with those who enjoy his tv work if he isn't to be the face of LEAVE (which I think he should be)